Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / How to Stop Self-Sabotaging This Holiday Season: According to Your Enneagram Type with Deanna Sudom

Transcript

How to Stop Self-Sabotaging This Holiday Season: According to Your Enneagram Type with Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:09
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Especially when stress is high and expectations are overwhelming.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Before we get started and jump right into that conversation, for the friend who's listening who hasn't gone to meet Deanna yet, I would love for you to get to meet her and know her.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: She is a mom and a grandmom.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: She has spent years, decades really helping others love Jesus better.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: She has a zeal and a passion for telling others about his saving grace and her story and really how she has gone on this wholehearted journey and hasn't looked back.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: And she's just so great at inviting others along with her.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: She also has been a wholehearted coach for several years now and is a really valuable coach in the Wholehearted Collective.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so grateful for her friendship and her impact on my life and in our group.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, as we step into this conversation, I know that you'll listen and you'll hear things specific for you.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: You'll also hear big ideas that are general for a lot of different people.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And in a day and age when there's a lot of information available, what I want you to tune into is the wisdom that is shared, wisdom that is applicable for you right now.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: But if you're listening and you've maybe just come in from a long, hard day, or you're feeling anxious and overwhelmed for the day ahead, I want to invite you to pause, just to take a minute, a breath, and consider what does your soul need right now?
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Is it this conversation?
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Is it to turn this conversation from 1.2 speed to normal speed?
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Is it to sit and relax?
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Or is it to take a walk?
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Or is it to get caught up on the dishes while you listen to something that is soul filled?
3:27
SPEAKER_00: As you consider what you need, I also want you to ask yourself what is one small thing that I can do this year to help me stay grounded or connected to God during this busy season?
3:43
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have an immediate answer, I bet as you listen and as you tune into wisdom, an idea will come to you that you will be inspired to take what you need to really enjoy and savor these weeks and months ahead.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Deanna, thank you so much for joining us and helping us better understand the Enneagram that it's not just about personality, but it's about understanding the patterns that might keep us from peace.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot to unpack, but I'm just wondering if there is a win that you've had lately that you you're like, oh, thank goodness I have the Enneagram, because that was really helpful.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, friend.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: It's always a pleasure to have a conversation with you.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about my most important yes that has transformed my life was my yes to Jesus and as my savior.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the lens that really informs me for life and business and coaching and knowing ultimately that Jesus is the one that transforms.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking about a win.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Particular to me is my in my type four, my weakness of struggle is envy and comparison.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And what I've learned is that the practice of gratitude or celebration actually has helped me move through this quickly if I feel activated or if I'm aware that I'm comparing.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: And just to clarify for me personally as a type four, but it doesn't translate to me wanting to be like that person, but it translates to I feel like there's something missing in me because of what I'm seeing and start to envy.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: And what I have realized that it gets me stuck and paralyzed in that place.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And I've missed a lot of opportunities because that has happened.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: But I found the quicker I can speak gratitude into this place, the more it mitigates the envy.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: And I can actually like truly celebrate this person with Jesus' help.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Often I will have to call on him and just say, Lord, I'm having trouble with this.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: I need you to help me to be able to speak to this place and in me, in my heart, that's longing for that.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes, I think even Amy, you might have been the one that kind of highlighted this for me was that maybe there is something in that for me, the part that I am envying, the part that I am comparing, that maybe God does have something for me in it.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: But if I can get to the place of just acknowledging that yes, I'm feeling envy here, what's going on, and then being able to give it to the Lord and asking him to vet it out and see if it is for me or if it's just something I can celebrate in this person and not get stuck there.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's probably one of my greatest wins.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I just think sometimes I am getting older and I recognize that God has given me a little bit of wisdom to work through these pieces in myself that I have gotten stuck in before.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really powerful.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: And what I love is that you've actually touched on what we'll unpack as we continue, because that right there, identifying what has been provoked or evoked at some level, activated or triggered, being able to recognize that and stop the spiral, because oftentimes this is what continues to trip us up over and over again.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: And if we don't recognize it, we can't stop it.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: We keep falling, we keep stumbling, we can't pick it up and put it in the right place.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: For you, as we've engaged with Enneagram for a while, you've used this as a tool for yourself, you use it in your coaching.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: You have been a coach for a long time, really a Christian life coach, you work with women who are experiencing all sorts of different trials, some traumas in different stages and at different ages of life.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: But what's often a myth or a hot take, as they're saying on Instagram this year, that you think I don't know if they have the whole story, they have the correct information, and you have to help people work through that as they sit with you and process their story and look for ways to really find healing in their journey and their pain.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: I actually just had a conversation with a coach friend this morning before I became a coach, both times in two of my certifications.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I got coached first to see if it was something that I could do or thought that I could do.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And you were one of my coaches.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And I just had a conversation with the other one with my Christian life coaching this morning, talking about the difference when a person wants or needs coaching versus counseling.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's common to hear, can't you just tell me?
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Or what's the answer?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people just expect someone to give them the answers.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, before I was trained as a coach, for many years, I spent a lot of time in my lifetime giving those answers to people.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people just expect the answers.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: And I and I just think that before I knew the Lord at 33, I thought I was the end of the line.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: I thought that about my parenting.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Somebody asked me that once.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: What was it like for you to parent without knowing the Lord?
9:32
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I was the end of the line.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: I had to find the answers.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I was like when people would come to me and they tell me their stories.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think, oh, I've got to help them find a solution because they there's a reason they're coming to me.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what it was at the time.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it took a few years of growing and learning with the Lord that He is the answer.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And me always giving the solutions can create a really unhealthy dependency for people on me or knowing that I am not God.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes people can get unhealthily dependent in that space when we're always just giving them solutions and answers.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: So I think trusting the Lord is their answer, and that I can be a guide for them and get to it with Holy Spirit, then I can easily hold the space with them for their hard things and not adopt it or try to fix it for them because it's not my job.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: It's not.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: And I love using the language guide.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: You've probably heard me say guide by the side or something to that, because what we're invited to do as guides is to offer a safe space and ask questions.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: So that way the person receiving the curiosity can also have a moment to reflect and be curious about themselves.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Because how often do we take that time?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Do we ask ourselves good questions?
11:02
SPEAKER_00: No, we don't.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: And that it's so interesting because that was a conversation that I had earlier today as well of our job isn't actually to tell anybody what to do.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: It's to invite the person to be curious and to explore.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes with the right questions, someone can arrive to the solution they uniquely need.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really powerful.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: It's the difference between finding your answer on Instagram or through AI, sitting with someone who you can partner with the Holy Spirit.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: You can move through the situation, not just continue to find answers that maybe aren't exactly fitting to your situation or really generic or in the end, not helpful and not wise.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, one of the pieces that I wanted to hear a little bit more about is just this.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I want my friend listening to understand how Enneagram goes from insight to integration because it's really great to know all this information about yourself and have these insights and going, oh, wow, that's I read that and that looks like my diary, or that's what I'm thinking all the time.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: That's really wonderful, but what do we do about it?
12:18
SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the missions and the visions for these conversations.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like, what now?
12:24
SPEAKER_00: What next?
12:25
SPEAKER_00: So help us understand how exactly you were able to use the Enneagram to uncover or unlock what you alluded to before of that self-striving spiral.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: How did you find freedom in that?
12:40
SPEAKER_01: That's a great question, too.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking though, I just wanted to circle back to what you said about human presence and the song Come Thou Found.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: What is it called?
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Come thou found of every blessing.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: As I'm prone to wander, Lord, I feel it.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm prone to leave the God I love.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: And I just thought this is what we do.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: We're prone to wander.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: And He's the one that has the answers.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So I think probably in the Enneagram, what helps me unlock that or what helps me get to that is the fact that it's not just personality traits that we're highlighting.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: It's not just, oh, you have brown hair and you have blue eyes.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: It's going deeper and getting to the roots and understanding that the tool helps us know why we do the things that we do and how Christ in it brings the integration and healing to full circle.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And that anytime, I think anytime we try to meet any of our own longings without Jesus, this is what leads to the self-sabotage.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: This is what leads to how we're just trying to do things on our own.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And so that is why I just thought of that song because it's like prone to wonder, Lord.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: We're just prone to turn away from him.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's probably the biggest thing that has unlocked it for me.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And just trusting that it's a tool and it's not the end all be all, but it can certainly guide us there.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's probably a good theme song to even consider if those who know that hymn, the words of speaking truth over our situations, over our longings, and understand how quickly we can veer off the path, which is why it's helpful to have a guide in this moment.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to give the gift of insight for each type here about what can start that self-sabotage spiral, but with that, offer the wisdom of integration.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like to go from that starting point where we can get stuck to thriving in a way that helps us receive God's love and then love others better, which we need more than ever as we have all the holiday pressure and family gatherings and the expectations that pile up on us because we want this to be the most wonderful time of the year.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: We want this to be the best yet.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And we hear that or commercial that all the time.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: And so help us be more grounded because that's the goal here.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: That's really the invitation.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: As we go through the nine types, I was thinking it would make sense to start with the Enneagram for, Deanna, because you had hinted at it earlier.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to give some highlights.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: You can add your own words to it, but then give us the what's next?
15:37
SPEAKER_00: What do we do here with this information?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So the four tends to start with feeling the melancholy and envy.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: And if they continue to stay in that place, they feed it, they nurture it unwittingly by believing everyone else's holidays are more meaningful.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: So that quickly can put them in a spiral.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you have any experience with this, Deanna.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Help us out here.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been off social media for six months, and this has helped enormously, even though I probably at one time or another will get back on there for business purposes.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: But I think, I think not assuming that it won't be meaningful, that that it won't be far from ideal, besides the fact that envy is one of my struggles.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I am in a triad where I am an idealist.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I see the way that I think the world should look.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: And come on, people, why aren't you getting on the program here?
16:45
SPEAKER_01: So I think it would go back to though practicing gratitude for sure and just simplicity, taking a breath.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm finding pre-planning works in so many different areas.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: And pre-thinking is one of the things I've actually been coaching, especially my younger clients right now, been trying to teach them to pre-think what they're going to do before they go into a situation.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And one of them is a type four.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: And think about what that's going to look like.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: How could you do that differently?
17:17
SPEAKER_01: What could you say or not say?
17:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think I find gratitude is just, it's been a game changer for me, for sure.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited that you brought up that word because Kristen Ye is also going to have a conversation with us really about engaging in hard relationships during the holiday, but we're going to talk about that bit of gratitude and expand on that even further.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for queuing that up without knowing it.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And I what you say there is so actionable and a very unique upstream practice for the four.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by upstream, it's hard.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: The four doesn't necessarily enjoy planning.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: While there is ideal and there is hoped-for expectations, the four doesn't typically strategize around it.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's supposed to happen.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And if it's wonderful, it will happen organically.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: It'll just unfold.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: But instead of getting there and having your breakdown moment because nothing's going as you hoped, there's actually thoughtfulness and consideration happening.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: What do I want?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: What do I need?
18:30
SPEAKER_00: What do others want?
18:31
SPEAKER_00: What do others need?
18:32
SPEAKER_00: How do we bring that all together and thinking ahead, which is not easy, but I've seen the fruit of it in your life, the power of it in your life by making that intentionally, doing that intentional step, even though it's not necessarily natural for you.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: I've lived through enough disappointments, I think, or where my expectations have been not met or in the way that I thought they should be.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And finally just getting to that place where my husband has his favorite saying from Bob Goff that says, think about the think that what the person is doing is the least creepy explanation you could think about it.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: And yes, and go from there.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And just releasing and going, what does it really matter?
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Does it really matter in eternity?
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think that can fit with a lot of the types where we come up against that is just really just take a breath, just say, Lord, how can I do this?
19:32
SPEAKER_01: What's next?
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Or how can I just release it?
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Because does it really matter?
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Without a need to control, because what we're talking about with planning isn't control, it is being intentional, thoughtful, and then surrendering the process as you then walk through it.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And it then it can be more natural and organic, like you fours want it to just unfold.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: I know you definitely resonate with the five wing.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And we talk about in wholehearted here that we want to use both wings, mend both of them and use them, but you definitely feel an affinity for that five.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: And the five will tend to for their fear of depletion, will withdraw to conserve their energy.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: And in that withdrawing, because they're fearful of catastrophic depletion, especially when the demand is so high, they in the end end up missing connection, which they later on do regret.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And so it's that cycle, right?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: The self-sabotage spiral where the fear causes them to withdraw.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: And so they withdraw, but then they miss connection and they're disappointed they missed it.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So help my five friend understand what they could do differently this year to avoid that spiral.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: I think what I have found, even speaking to the fives and my own self, definitely four-wing five pulls harder than my three, is being in being involved in it somehow, like initiating an activity that's going to happen, you being the one that's planned it so that it's beforehand you're ready for it, and you know that so you can step into that and know that you can be involved in that way.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I constantly remind, I have a friend who's a five, and I constantly remind her to share just her presence because it is the greatest gift.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: She is just the greatest gift, and so I love yeah, just being able to sit with people, to actually share their knowledge, to be invited into those places where people are speaking because they tend to withdraw a little bit more or withdraw in the conversation unless they're very comfortable with people.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: So I think with family, it's always we all have our own.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Little place that happens.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I would invite that though, like an activity that they would find that gives them energy.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: I just have to say, and having the honor of coaching a few fives over the years, just to see how this is an element for them that when they find that key and engage in that upstream practice of engaging before withdrawing out of fear, they're the freedom that they experience is just so profound.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: It is life-changing.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And it gets me excited every time because as I work with the five, it's always I'm on the edge of my seat going, is this going to happen for them?
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Will they find that discovery and be able to push into that fear and get through on the other side?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's just so beautiful to see what unfolds.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: I know you have raised an Enneagram six.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And so you have some and coached plenty of sixes.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: And so the fear for the six is strong.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: They're known for that.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: That's where a lot of the memes come from and the stereotypes.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But it's just innate for the six to have doubt and fear.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: And they make plans not about what goes, but what could go wrong.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: That's their tendency.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And so there's that's a quick spiral.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And a six will raise their hand because they're like, ah, that's every day.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: It isn't just the holiday, it's every day.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: So instead of this coming out as a what we call a sideways sandwich in the holiday season and not a yummy, tasty like oatmeal cream pie or pumpkin cream sandwich, help us, Deanna, help us to take a step in the right direction.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I think probably the trickiest part here would be just trying to keep grabbing on to control when they're feeling out of control or when the surroundings feel a little bit more than their nervous system wants to handle at that moment.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: So I think to actually take action in something, to have a piece of it, to go stand and cook the turkey or do the dishes or whatever it is, just a place that you can choose that will it won't mean you're controlling the whole gathering, but it will mean that you have some control.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And Emmanuel means God with us.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: I know in the John Eldridge Pause app, if I can give Yes, please give a plug.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Give a plug there.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: He says in his prayers, give everything and everyone to God.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you can just do that on repeat, just give everyone and everything to God.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And it naturally just helps you to release and to hold your hands open for those spaces there.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: The One Minute Pause app, by the way, is our recommendation here.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: John Eldridge, he's got several different plans, they call it.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: I think he started that in the resilience plan and then has carried it over to experience Jesus.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Really?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm naming it right.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it's pretty self-explanatory, easy to find if you download the one minute pause app.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: It's free.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And those prayers are really grounding.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Just keep giving it over to God as cliche and try, but it is a surrender.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: It is a breathing and physically visualizing that surrender and knowing that there is a lot that could go wrong, but there's a lot more that could go right.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: And how does God want you to envision the days ahead with those that you love or for even yourself and your soul?
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're going to the seven here.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I happen to personally know that it's classic of a seven or typical to do things to avoid pain or the hard emotions that oftentimes come up at the holiday.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: I can plan more things, I can bake more things, I can eat more things, I can watch more movies, I can.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll stop outing myself here.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So coach me, Deanna.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Give me your wisdom.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: What is a better way to engage with this these days ahead?
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I think you could probably speak to that better than I can coach you through that.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: But probably joy isn't found in things.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's just in the presence of being together, that there doesn't have to be a bunch of options and maybe even having a little space where I always used to say I used to go to the bathroom when my children were little and hide out there and read.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, for sure.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: The Bible was on the back of the toilet.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Let's like I'm totally being honest here.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that can happen too.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Take a space, go.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: I have to go to the bathroom and and recognize that you can just take a breather in there and come back and engage again and not have to.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I think probably you might generalize as far as it has to be all good instead of just a piece of it and just trusting that the rest of it just go, okay, this is good.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: This part is good, and we can do the and yes, yes.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: And this part is good, but right now I'm feeling this kind of thing.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And so you can have those coexist in the same space, but it doesn't mean to eliminate the goodness of what is happening, even if it's not all good.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: And nor do I have to employ my reframing to mitigate the hard things or suppress it.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: And so it's a tension for a seven because I easily go to the reframe, but there's also moments where I'm experiencing something hard enough, my reframer sometimes gets broken.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: And so it's in the flip side.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Can I still love the goodness that is still happening?
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Maybe even if there's a little bit of a dark cloud that sometimes happens in life because negative circumstances are part of it and disappointment is part of life.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: The next is for the Enneagram eight.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: And I also feel that eight-wing a lot more sometimes than my six wing.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: So I know that my tendency when I'm fearful of losing control, maybe it's not even being betrayed, but more about being let down by people because they don't follow through with their end of the bargain, right?
28:48
SPEAKER_00: That feels that can feel like betrayal.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: It's maybe someone coming in and ruining plans and being part of making it a negative experience because they are an opposition or they have a different way of doing things.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: And so that can really come about by trying to control, digging in their heels, and in their effort to protect people, they might inadvertently harm or others might feel squashed and squished.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: So what would be a better way to stop that spiral in these days ahead?
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: I think often type eight might see there's plan A, and this is how we're doing it, and there's no other plans.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: This is what's going to happen.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: So I think remaining open and curious to what could happen.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: I think probably the pre-thinking plan could really fit in here, just thinking ahead, like what if this happened or what if that might happen?
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Not that they can figure that all out or anticipate it with people.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: We can't really do that completely.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: But I know this is really vulnerable for type eight, but letting the tenderness part of them, I really believe that the type eights have one of the softest hearts in the whole world.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: And just deep and wide, and but it's really vulnerable to show that.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: So I think if they can let their tenderness lead, they can get to places of compromise and with people if they need to, so that can be a strength rather than something that becomes a wrestle sometimes.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's good.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a tenderness to compromise as well.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: That willingness to go from plan A, which is their perfect plan, and okay, maybe C will work this time.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we can do that.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: All right, for the nine, I'm married to a nine.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: You we both know a few nines.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I've seen the process of the nine either feeling dismissed in a situation, that their voice or their opinion doesn't matter.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: So there's this lead-in to I'll just check out, I'll numb out, I'll do what I like to do, I'll pull into my little world, I'll let things keep rolling along.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: And that for them feels safer and more harmonious than speaking up or offering or adding to the situation because it feels disruptive at some level.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: But I have heard nine say after the fact, oh wait, I think I missed that.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Or did I was I there?
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Did I enjoy it for all it's worth and take it all in?
31:30
SPEAKER_00: So what would you add for wisdom there for those who maybe are prone to numbing out and just pulling back instead of stepping in?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: I think nines have one of the most rounded ability to be able to bring something to fullness when they speak, that their voice brings peace when it's rooted in truth.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And I know this is often what I've coached in people who are nines before that I I just want to take them.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes if I'm on Zoom, I just want to show their face and just go.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: You matter, your voice matters, you are important, and we want to hear what you have to say.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And so I would say that.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: And so because they have that ability, they really can speak into a lot of situations, I think, that that comes out with truth.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: And because their heart is to be in harmony, it feels it does, like you said, it feels disruptive for them.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: It's oof, I shouldn't say that.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: But I think the more I invite them to just start in a really safe space, like where they with one person that they can feel that they're grounded or safe with and they can say the truth or what they're thinking to test it and to practice it that way, because that's how they'll get to the place I think of being able to be confident in saying those things.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: That's all right.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Start little, just one step in that direction.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Deanna, your husband's an Enneagram one.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: So you might be familiar with the one wanting things to be not just ideal, but perfect and people to see their contribution as good and perfect, but the pressure of that often creates resentfulness.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: So what is the better step to do to avoid that spiral?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: I do know one thing.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I can't say the P word in front of him that kind of ignites him.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no perfect, huh?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about perfect, we're talking about better.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: That's his, he said, I don't feel like I'm a perfectionist.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I just can see how it can be better.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: And so I really like the language of that.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And so I think probably just to take an inventory of what your expectations are going into something that to surrender what the perfect scenario might be and make a list or an inventory in your mind about what's most important to happen during this time so that it's not so you have a menu of what could be the possibilities of this happening, and it doesn't need to be.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: And just to be present, I'll speak for my husband for a moment, but I think because he does like literally look at almost everything in the world and think, oh, I could make that better by doing this, or and so I think it's a big distraction when they're in a room full of people, or if the Christmas tree lights aren't blinking, and then it's just like this immediate, oh, I'll fix that.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: And often we love that, we love that about our type ones, but yes, but also just to be present because his presence is so valuable and it's rich, and sometimes it gets missed because he's busy fixing things for everybody.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I don't know if that applies across the board, but that's been my experience with him.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: So I think if he can surrender to that, I have to fix that.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Maybe yes, maybe after when the tree's coming down, we'll fix the lights, huh?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: I imagine you guys make a good team for making these lists.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: And I you've shared a little bit of your process before of how you go into the holiday with family who's far, and there's now generations and in-laws and all of that, where you guys can meet those ideals and talk through those ideals and strategize appropriately.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I hope that that's great.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've got two more types to talk about.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: The Enneagram to bless their heart.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: Their gifting list is super long, usually too long for what's doable for their budget, their time, their energy.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: They still might attempt it, right?
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Or two still might try to hit it all like this year, I'm gonna nail it, the best gifts, and everyone's gonna get one.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: But then as they go through it, they might even at the end of the day of giving feel so unappreciated and not receive back what they had hoped to get.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: So, how do they stop that cycle, especially during a time of year that the demand totally provokes their I want to be needed and want it?
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, I had a conversation with my daughter-in-law, who happens to be this type as well, and we were talking about similar types of things, maybe not necessarily around gatherings, but I said to her, You as a type two, you love just comes out like it is the greatest gift, the greatest ability that God has given them is to show his love to people.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's so abundant that often an expectation will be set up with that.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: That if I give all of this love, surely I will receive some of that back.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't necessarily always happen.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: People are people, and so I think what I was talking about was just even checking the expectations and just going, am I giving this?
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Where in my heart are am I giving this from?
37:49
SPEAKER_01: And just to be able to give it from the overflow, not to get love back and recognizing when they do that.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think just like I said, with envy and comparison being one of my struggles, that kind of is what happens with them is the struggle is it gets turned into pride because their own needs and wants for are forgotten in giving it all out to everybody else.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: And then there is an expectation.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: What with all of us?
38:18
SPEAKER_01: I think we all expect that.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: We're like, hey, did you see that?
38:22
SPEAKER_01: And then I added the layer that being a leader on top of that, it's just not the way that sometimes it's received.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I think remembering that the important relationships around them, they just love them because they love them.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: I watch my son love her, and I just think he just loves her because of who she is.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Like she's just she's the essence of love, but she's just who she is, and that's what he loves.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not because she could do something, it's not because she could buy him something, it's not because of anything like that, but it's just because of the essence of who she is for sure.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Ah, beautiful.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: So good.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, our Enneagram three.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: This is where they've probably been collecting Pinterest pens on their Christmas board for a lot of the year in their mind, if not literally.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: A three is usually hosting and finishing their big year goals.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: They've got big plans, big ideas.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: They're also probably already planning for next year.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: To be fair, this all kind of folds into their multi-vision, multi-passionate expansiveness of personality.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: So, what does it look like though, to not hurl through these holidays and continue to try to attain a goal that keeps moving and just continually feel exhausted and let down by what hasn't been done yet and to miss out on the goodness that's in front of them.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: I think in that space, I think I pull my three-way more.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: I've seen that in the past, where just being able to have the ability to slow down, to savor things, to be able to appreciate what has been done already and not just thinking about what hasn't been done.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just reflecting on that.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about that because we just spoke about quarter three and quarter three, quarter three and quarter four goals and how I met only a portion of my quarter three.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And so what I did, I just slid it into quarter four.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: It's okay, let's try again.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: And see how that goes.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: But I think yeah, I think the reminder that their worth isn't in what they produce or what comes out of them, it's just their worth is in who they've been created to be.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: And whether they offer anything or not, this is uh who God loves them to be.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: And so if they can just breathe a bit to savor the space and to be present in it, I think that would help a lot for type three.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's powerful.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I know these self-sabotage patterns come out any time of year, but I do think that the expectations around Christmas and even just like you talked about, it's quarter four means a lot for a lot of different women who are listening of whether it's like a business goal or they had a production goal or they had some accountability in place where it was supposed to happen.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that can add to the burden as we go into these last months.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: And so the to be able to stop the spiral and really what we did at the beginning of this conversation was that pausing, that being curious about ourselves, curious about what we need in this moment, curious about what is meant for us in even the minutes ahead of what we were going to be saying or what we were going to be listening to.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: So beautifully done, Deanna.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for offering your wisdom.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think what we demonstrated here is maybe you could Google some of these answers, but we offered layers of wisdom that you could only find in story, that you could find in experience, that you could find in really the work that Deanna and I have done to merge.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: What does it look like to utilize our faith and biblical Christian practices with our unique lens?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: And this is where we go, okay, it's a it's just a little thing.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: And most of it's letting go.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: It's being overdoing, it's intentionality instead of striving, it's pausing and being curious instead of blindly just blowing through to the next thing and doing the reacting.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Deanna, I know you have a beautiful resource that I've enjoyed sharing before.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: But if a friend's listening and is new to you or hasn't gotten your prayers yet for each Enneagram type, where can our friend find that and maybe learn more about you, more about your guidance and your coaching that you offer and your interesting life, really?
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's very generous.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I think probably the best part would be to go to my website, capstonefreedomcoaching.com.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: And there's an offer on there that I can send you a prayer particular to your type.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know your type, there is also a section on there where you can click and set up just even a free consultation call, and we can maybe start to nail that down.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: So that's my website.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I've been off of social media for quite a while and not sure if I'm going back there, but I am on there as Deanna.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, that's probably the best ways to get a hold of me.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: If you're listening, friend, and there was something that stood out to you that you want to unpack more, that you think I need someone to be curious about my story.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I need someone to bear witness to it.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: I need someone to help me understand what were some of these words meaning for my personality type and what does it really look like to move forward.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: Take that next step with Deanna.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of resources that I've put here.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on the podcast, you can find those links.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: You can get some things like the Avent Podcast playlist that I have as well.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: If you want other resources to help you through this particular holiday season as we just go through these last weeks of the year.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: So take a minute and consider what's your next step.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're finally done with the dishes.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you finished folding the laundry or you took a long walk and celebrate that.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: This is really good.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And take a moment too, before you just cue up the next podcast, consider what is next for you and take action on that.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuck point.