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BREAKING: House DOGE Committees Fiery First Hearing, Chaired By Marjorie Taylor Greene · Elon Musk Podcast

0:01
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Elon Musk
0:04
Podcast. This is a show where we discuss
0:07
the critical crossroads, the Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The
0:11
Boring Company, and Neurolink. I'm your host, Will Walden.
0:15
Welcome everyone without objection.
0:18
The Chair may declare a recess at any time.
0:22
Also for today's hearing, Chairman Comer and Ranking
0:25
Member Connelly will each be recognized for one minute.
0:29
After me and the Ranking Member provide our opening statements.
0:34
I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening
0:37
statement. Good morning.
0:40
Today we begin the first hearing on the Oversight Subcommittee on
0:44
Dodge. This committee will be laser
0:46
focused on bringing full transparency to waste, fraud and
0:51
abuse within the federal government and presenting the
0:55
plans to fix the tremendous problems we expose.
0:59
We as a country are $36 trillion in debt.
1:05
That is such a stunning amount of money.
1:08
It's absolutely staggering to even comprehend how we as a
1:11
people, we as a country found ourselves here.
1:15
This is not a Democrat problem. This is not a Republican
1:20
problem. This is an American problem.
1:23
To make it clear for everyone, not only are we $36 trillion in
1:28
debt, but the the compounding interest on our debt is also
1:33
growing out of control. Even if we decided to defund the
1:37
entire federal government, we cannot escape our debt and the
1:42
compounding interest owed on our debt, which grows bigger and
1:46
bigger every year. In 2025, interest payments are
1:50
projected to be $952 billion, which is more than our entire
1:57
military budget. In 2026, it will be $1 trillion
2:02
and by 2035, $1.8 trillion. Over the next decade, total
2:08
interest payments are projected to be $13.8 trillion.
2:14
These interest payments don't serve a single American.
2:18
They don't build a bridge, a road, provide disaster relief,
2:22
or fund a single part of the behemoth that is the federal
2:26
government. These interest payments pay our
2:29
masters who own our debt, and the American people are in debt
2:33
slavery to everyone who owns our debt.
2:37
Our crippling national debt and massively growing interest on
2:41
our debt will destroy us, not destroy one political party or
2:46
the other. It will destroy all of us
2:48
together. It drives inflation, making life
2:52
unaffordable for Americans struggling to financially
2:55
survive. It is crippling small businesses
2:58
struggling to be successful. Our massively growing debt and
3:02
interest are the chains and shackles harnessed to every
3:06
American and their children and every generation to come.
3:11
But first, let us be brutally honest about how this massive
3:15
debt came to be in the first place.
3:18
It came from Congress and from elected presidential
3:22
administrations. And I believe enslaving our
3:26
nation and debt is one of the biggest betrayals against the
3:30
American people by its own elected government.
3:34
This American, the American people's anger over this
3:37
betrayal is what gave birth to the concept of Doge, the
3:42
Department of Government Efficiency.
3:45
In fact, Doge became a major part of President Trump's
3:48
campaign and LED to his overwhelming victory in
3:52
November. Everyday Americans go to work.
3:56
They run businesses. They have to earn their
3:58
paycheck. No one guarantees it and if they
4:02
don't do a good job, they get fired.
4:05
They also have to pay their bills, credit card debts,
4:08
balance their checkbooks, and scrap and save every penny they
4:12
can in order to plan for that rainy day and hopefully
4:16
retirement one day. Private businesses only survive
4:20
on hard earned income by serving their customers so well that
4:24
their customers pay them for the services and products they
4:28
consume. If that business fails, its
4:31
employees lose their jobs and paychecks and the owners lose
4:35
their business and everything they risked along with it.
4:39
Many go bankrupt in this process and lose everything.
4:43
No one bails them out. They only survive by excellent
4:47
customer service and smart financial management.
4:51
This is the real world that most Americans live, work, and
4:55
survive in every day. This is the pursuit of happiness
5:00
and this is how you pursue the American Dream.
5:03
However, the federal government, government employees, and
5:06
unelected bureaucrats do not live by the same rules as the
5:10
Great American people and private businesses.
5:14
The federal government's income is the American people's hard
5:18
earned tax dollars. Their literal blood, sweat, and
5:23
tears and taxes are collected by law at gunpoint.
5:28
Don't pay your taxes and you go to jail.
5:31
The federal government does not have to provide excellent
5:34
customer service to earn its income.
5:37
It takes your money whether you like it or not, and federal
5:41
employees receive their paycheck no matter what, whether veterans
5:46
receive their benefits or not, whether your mail shows up or
5:50
not, and whether your tax dollars are used to help
5:53
Americans in need or sent to foreign countries for foreign
5:58
people for foreign causes. No matter how bad the federal
6:03
government fails the American people, it still takes your
6:06
money, it still pays its own federal employees, and it never
6:12
ever goes out of business. There are no consequences for
6:16
bad customer service, total failure, and for enslaving the
6:20
American people against their will and the ever growing and
6:25
future all consuming national debt.
6:28
Congress has a dismal approval rating that ranges between 12
6:33
and 20%. I don't blame the American
6:36
people one bit for their sentiment and disgust.
6:40
The American people will be watching this committee and how
6:43
we tackle one of the biggest problems of our time.
6:47
While we are a committee made-up of the opposite, far reaching
6:51
corners of Congress, we were each elected to serve and
6:55
represent the American people and how their hard earned tax
6:59
dollars are spent. We as Republicans and Democrats
7:03
can still hold tightly to our beliefs, but we are going to
7:08
have to let go of funding them in order to save our sinking
7:12
ship. This is not a time for political
7:15
theater and partisan attacks. The American people are
7:20
watching. The legislative branch can't sit
7:23
on the sidelines. In this subcommittee, we will
7:26
fight the war on waste shoulder to shoulder with President
7:30
Trump, Elon Musk and the Doge team.
7:34
This week, we turn our attention to improper payments by the
7:37
federal government, including in Medicaid and Medicare.
7:42
I'm looking forward to what we find out and how to solve this
7:46
crisis. I now you yield to the Ranking
7:49
Member, Miss Stansbury for her opening statement.
7:54
All right. Well, good morning, everyone.
7:56
Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome to the very first
7:59
Subcommittee on Government Efficiency.
8:02
As was said, this committee is tasked under the Oversight
8:05
Committee with ensuring that the government and the vital
8:09
services that it provides, from healthcare to national security,
8:13
actually work for the American people.
8:15
And this is certainly a topic that we have worked on for many,
8:19
many years here in the Oversight Committee, and which I
8:22
personally have worked on as a former servant who worked at the
8:25
Office of Management and Budget. And in fact, for anyone who has
8:29
ever worked on these issues, you know that there is ample ground
8:33
for bipartisan work to make the government work better for the
8:36
American people and to ensure that it operates in a more
8:40
efficient manner. And in fact, all of us here on
8:45
the Democratic side are ready to roll up our sleeves and to get
8:48
to work. And just last week, I had the
8:50
opportunity to sit down with the chairwoman and to discuss these
8:55
very issues and opportunities to work across the aisle.
8:58
And like the chairwoman who shared some of her background
9:01
with me, I grew up in a working family.
9:04
I grew up working for small mom and pop family businesses and
9:08
understand the necessity of balancing the books, making sure
9:12
we can deliver and fiscal responsibility.
9:15
And that's why today's hearing is focused on making sure that
9:18
the federal government is doing what it's supposed to and
9:21
digging into the more than 230, $6 billion in improper payments
9:27
that we see going out the door every single year.
9:31
And we need to get to the bottom of that.
9:33
And we need to make sure that we're putting into place
9:35
rigorous oversight and controls to prevent fraud and abuse and,
9:40
of course, to go after bad actors.
9:43
And that is why myself and the oversight Ranking Member
9:46
Connelly and other Democratic members of the committee sent a
9:50
set of bipartisan ideas that we'd like to work on together
9:54
that would root out waste, fraud and abuse and modernize and
9:57
streamline how our agencies deliver vital programs for the
10:00
American people. These are programs that are
10:03
important for our seniors and our families and healthcare in
10:07
the education system. And we need bipartisan solutions
10:11
to get across the finish line. And we've been trying over the
10:14
last several years to get these ideas out of this committee.
10:17
But unfortunately, the committee's priorities have been
10:20
elsewhere under the current majority.
10:23
So I hope we can fix that this Congress, but we can't just sit
10:28
here today and pretend like everything is normal and that
10:32
this is just another hearing on government efficiency.
10:35
I mean, all you have to do is look across this room and see
10:39
that it is not a normal hearing. Because while we're sitting
10:42
here, Donald Trump and Elon Musk are recklessly and illegally
10:46
dismantling the federal government, stuttering federal
10:49
agencies, firing federal workers, withholding funds vital
10:53
to the safety and well-being of our communities, and hacking our
10:56
sensitive data systems. In fact, while we were here
11:01
discussing government waste on the House floor yesterday, Elon
11:05
Musk was standing behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office
11:09
with the president. And the administration was
11:12
making emergency court appeals to try to unlock his team's
11:16
access to the Treasury payment system, which they claim they
11:20
are using to study improper payments, which is the topic of
11:24
this hearing. But here's the thing.
11:27
The Treasury payment system, which includes Social Security
11:30
information and bank accounts for millions of Americans and
11:33
data that's critical to national security in the operation of the
11:37
US government and payments that go out the door annually equal
11:41
to almost a fifth of the US economy, is not where the
11:46
payment decisions are made. Because that happens inside the
11:49
agencies that are currently being dismantled.
11:52
And the people who actually investigate waste, fraud and
11:55
abuse at these agencies are the inspector generals who Donald
12:00
Trump fired his first week in office in a midnight massacre.
12:04
So we have to ask ourselves, what is really going on here?
12:09
Why did Republicans block Elon Musk from appearing before this
12:13
very committee last week? Why is the administration so
12:16
eager to allow Elon Musk and his hackers to have access to
12:21
proprietary and private information in the Treasury
12:24
payment systems? Why are colleagues across the
12:27
aisle shielding them as they are clearly breaking the law?
12:30
And why is the Vice president trying to rewrite the US
12:35
Constitution by tweet and undermine the judiciary?
12:40
So obviously, we're in the Oversight committee and we have
12:43
a lot of questions. And so do the American people,
12:46
especially while while our colleagues across the aisle are
12:50
trying to scoop up the savings from the dismantling of these
12:54
agencies to pay for the largest permanent tax break in American
12:58
history for billionaires and the folks that they're helping on
13:03
their side of the aisle. So let me close by saying this
13:08
directly to Mr. Elon Musk. We are well aware that you are
13:13
eager to engage with members of Congress on social media, but
13:18
we're not here to play. If you have serious desire to
13:23
engage in democracy and transparency, we welcome you to
13:27
the Oversight Committee. Come and testify in front of the
13:30
American people, Underoath, because we want to know what
13:34
you're up to. So if you're interested in
13:37
talking to us, then please join us here in the People's House in
13:41
the House of Representatives. And with that I yield back.
13:47
The gentlelady yields. President Trump signed an
13:49
executive order on his first day in office called Establishing
13:53
and Implementing the President's Department of Government
13:56
Efficiency. The EO simply renamed an office
14:00
in the White House that was actually established by
14:03
President Obama in 2014 called the US Digital Service.
14:08
President Trump can have Elon Musk into his Oval Office
14:12
anytime he likes. I now recognize the Chairman of
14:16
the Oversight Committee, Chairman James Comer.
14:20
Well, thank you, Chairwoman Green, for holding today's
14:22
hearing to launch a war on waste.
14:26
President Trump won an electoral landslide with a clear mandate
14:30
from the American people to eliminate Washington waste and
14:33
stop the theft of American tax dollars.
14:37
And he is. Delivering on his promise,
14:39
President Trump is empowered, Elon Musk indulged to conduct a
14:43
government wide audit to identify solutions to curb waste
14:47
and protect tax dollars. That's exactly what the mission
14:50
of this committee is supposed to be.
14:52
And I'm glad that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
14:54
are have found a new found interest in waste, fraud and
14:57
abuse. With a staggering $37 trillion
15:01
in national debt, we have no time to lose.
15:05
A key place to start is improper payments.
15:07
Since 2003, the government has lost $2.7 trillion because of
15:14
improper payments. Fraudsters, organized criminals,
15:17
hostile foreign actors, and even government employees have
15:20
siphoned money away from those who truly qualify for
15:23
assistance. For years, Republicans and
15:26
Democrats and Oversight Committee have condemned this
15:28
waste, but now that Doge is taking real action, Democrats
15:33
are choosing to defend the bureaucracy and status quo
15:36
instead of standing up for the American people.
15:39
I want to thank Chairwoman Green for holding this very important
15:42
hearing, not only to expose the problems, but to find solutions.
15:48
We stand with President Trump and Doge in the fight to end
15:50
waste, fraud and abuse in Washington.
15:53
With that, I yield back to Subcommittee Chairwoman Green.
15:56
And congratulations again, Chairwoman, on holding this
15:59
first hearing of the DOGE subcommittee.
16:02
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields back.
16:05
I now recognize the Ranking Member on oversight, Mr.
16:08
Connolly. Excuse me.
16:12
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for having this first
16:16
hearing on DOGE. You know, improper payments is
16:20
not a new subject. I remember joining Steve Lynch
16:24
and then Todd Platts, Republican member from Pennsylvania, in my
16:29
freshman year talking about improper payments.
16:32
At that time, improper payments were in the range of 35 billion
16:35
a year. They're now in the range of $280
16:39
billion a year and times 10. We could cut almost $3 trillion
16:43
from the debt if we addressed improper payments in a
16:48
deliberative way, which GAO is called for in the high risk
16:52
category for years. We can also secondly, enforce
16:55
the tax code. It's estimated that at least a
16:59
half a trillion dollars a year is left on the table
17:03
uncollected, but owed because of lack of resources in the IRS.
17:08
Again, times 10 is $5 trillion over a decade.
17:13
And finally, we can modernize federal IT systems, which we've
17:16
championed for years on this committee.
17:19
We know that legacies legacy systems alone could save
17:22
hundreds of millions of dollars a year in operating a
17:25
maintenance cost. So if we want to be serious
17:27
about it, let's be serious about it.
17:30
But the way not to do it is to fire the people charged with the
17:35
remit of waste, fraud and abuse, namely inspectors general.
17:39
President Trump is already now fired, 19, including most
17:42
recently the USAID Inspector General who dared to warn that
17:47
we could lose a half a billion dollars of food aid because it's
17:52
in warehouses not being moved because of the funding freeze
17:56
that was imposed in AID. That's a cost we need to avoid.
18:01
And for doing his job, that ID was fired.
18:04
If we want to be serious, we've got to have objective neutral
18:09
inspectors general who are monitoring government waste,
18:13
fraud and abuse and expenditures.
18:15
And I think you would find Democrats more than willing
18:17
partners in that kind of enterprise if we're going to be
18:20
serious. But a wrecking crew, a wrecking
18:24
crane, a Wrecking Ball is not going to do it.
18:27
And we're not going to support that approach to waste, fraud
18:29
and abuse in the federal government.
18:31
I yield back. Thank you.
18:33
The gentleman yields, the President of the United States
18:36
has the prerogative to fire anyone that has overseen $36
18:40
trillion in debt, enslaving the American people, and rightfully
18:44
so. I'm pleased to welcome today's
18:47
expert panel of witnesses who each bring unique experience and
18:50
expertise that will be valuable to today.
18:53
To today's discussion, I'd first like to welcome Mr. Haywood
18:57
Talco, the Chief Executive Officer for Government at
19:01
LexisNexis Risk Solutions Inc. His commitment to customers
19:06
needs allows LexisNexis to develop market leading solutions
19:11
that have enabled customers to stop fraud, waste and abuse.
19:15
Next we have Mr. Stewart Whitson, the Senior Director of
19:19
Federal Affairs at the Foundation of Government
19:22
Accountability. Stewart was previously a Special
19:26
Agent in the FBIAUS Army veteran and now spends his time at FGA
19:32
advocating to improve welfare, the workforce and other policy.
19:37
Next we have Miss Dawn Royal, a certified welfare fraud
19:40
investigator in the State of Wyoming and Director for the
19:44
United Council of Welfare Fraud. She advocates for investigating
19:49
and preventing fraud of government benefits and has done
19:53
so over the past 16 years. Finally, we have Mr. Dylan
19:59
Hetler. Got it.
20:00
The Director of Government Affairs at the Project on
20:04
Government Oversight, Dylan leads advocacy efforts and
20:08
policy reforms to a wide range of good governance.
20:12
I thank each of our witnesses for being here today, and I look
20:15
forward to your testimony. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9.
20:19
G The witnesses will please stand and raise their right
20:23
hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm
20:30
that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
20:34
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
20:39
Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the
20:41
affirmative. Thank you.
20:43
You may take a seat. We appreciate you being here
20:47
today and look forward to your testimony.
20:50
Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written
20:53
statement and it will appear in full in the hearing record.
20:57
Please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes.
21:00
As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in
21:04
front of you so that it is on and the members can hear you.
21:08
When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn
21:11
green after 4 minutes. The light will turn yellow when
21:16
the red light comes on. Your 5 minutes have expired and
21:19
we would ask that you please wrap up.
21:22
I now recognize Mr. Talco for his opening statement.
21:26
Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member Stansbury, and distinguished
21:30
members of the committee. For over a decade, a silent war
21:33
has been waged against American taxpayers, not with bombs or
21:37
guns, but with data and technology.
21:40
Outdated government systems permit criminals to access
21:44
unlimited sums of money. During the pandemic, they stole
21:48
one trillion dollars. 70% of those dollars went overseas.
21:54
Shockingly, it's just not criminals exploiting the system,
21:57
it's the flawed system itself acting as the accomplice.
22:01
If left unchecked, U.S. government will continue to lead
22:03
the world in funding cyber criminals.
22:07
This is a data and technology problem and it demands a
22:10
data-driven response. Criminal syndicates have turned
22:13
benefit programs into their personal ATM machines,
22:17
exploiting those in need who wait months for benefits that
22:20
may never come. These ruthless crooks use our
22:23
money to fund child trafficking, disperse drugs in our
22:27
communities and terrorism. For years, criminal networks
22:32
have stolen personal information from the public and private
22:34
sector. They exploit real identities to
22:37
manipulate antiquated government systems, siphoning off billions
22:41
and taxpayers hard earned money. We continue to pay benefits to
22:45
deceased and incarcerated individuals.
22:48
Direct money to bad actors flagged in the Do Not Pay list
22:52
and overlook duplicate Social Security numbers by not
22:55
following best practices during the pandemic.
22:58
A simple cross check of PPP loan recipients against IRS records
23:03
would have exposed massive fraud and prevented payments to
23:06
transnational criminals who sold their quote UN quote sauce on
23:10
the dark web. To stop this, we must reclaim
23:14
control of our systems, not just from the criminal syndicates,
23:17
but the flawed systems enabling them.
23:20
Smarter technology, data and identity verification are not
23:24
optional. They are necessities to protect
23:26
taxpayers and ensure aid reaches those who truly need it now.
23:31
The use of AI is fundamentally changing society, but in the
23:35
hands of criminals, it has become a weapon.
23:38
Lawbreakers are now using it to supercharge the award on
23:41
taxpayers. They use AI to create fake
23:44
identity documents that pass biometric verifications.
23:48
Bots flood portals with thousands of fraudulent claims
23:51
per second, and deep fakes that mimic real applicants bypass the
23:56
outdated NIST 863 standard from 2017.
24:01
Honest and deserving people seeking access to government
24:04
benefits suffer through endless application forms that are
24:07
nearly impossible to navigate for.
24:09
Criminals from Russia, China and Romania gain access with ease.
24:15
The private sector has fraud rates below 3%.
24:20
Meanwhile the public sector operates at a 20% fraud rate.
24:24
The solution is clear. It's already used everyday to
24:27
protect consumers. You seamlessly interact with
24:30
your bank through an app that verifies your identity in
24:33
milliseconds. There's no excuse for the
24:35
government to lag if we do the following #1 Implement identity
24:39
verification on the front end. Criminals should never receive a
24:43
dime. Eliminate self certification.
24:47
No more honor system for billion dollar programs and continuous
24:51
auditing. Keep verifying because criminals
24:54
never stop adapting. Pay and chase does not work.
24:58
Of the $250 billion stolen and pandemic unemployment fraud,
25:03
less than 5 billion has been recovered.
25:05
The idea in government that you cannot have speed and security
25:09
is fiction. I urge Congress to consider
25:12
making the following legislative changes #1 update the 1974
25:17
Privacy Act to allow for data sharing and matching #2 fund a
25:21
budget for fraud prevention. In each appropriation bill, the
25:25
USDA spends 120th of 1% on fraud prevention.
25:30
Mandate that individuals caught stealing from entitlement
25:33
programs pay hefty fines and are removed from the program
25:36
permanently. And finally, eliminate broad
25:39
based categorical eligibility. This committee has a choice,
25:44
continue losing this war against criminal cartels and nation
25:47
states, or fight back and save $1 trillion annually.
25:51
Fraud Present prevention is not benefit prevention.
25:54
It's the key to ensuring that every dollar reaches those who
25:58
truly need it. Hard working Americans rely on
26:01
these programs not just to survive, but to build better
26:04
lives for their families. When Kronos exploit the system,
26:08
they just don't steal money, they steal opportunities.
26:11
Stopping fraud isn't about denying benefits, it's about
26:14
protecting them. This crime has two victims.
26:17
The first are the taxpayers and the second are those seeking
26:21
benefits. The fraudsters, cartels and
26:26
criminal syndicates are watching this hearing, I'm sure of it.
26:29
It's time to show them that America will not fund its own
26:32
destruction. Thank you and I look forward to
26:34
your questions. Thank you, Mr. Talco.
26:43
I now recognize Miss Royal for her opening statement.
26:51
Good morning Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member Stansbury and
26:54
committee members. My name is Don Royal.
26:57
I'm a certified welfare fraud investigator, two term past
27:00
president, and a current Director of the United Council
27:03
on Welfare Fraud. the United Council on Welfare Fraud is a
27:07
national professional organization dedicated to
27:10
protecting integrity in our nation's public assistance
27:12
programs. We are the only national
27:15
organization singularly focused on the detection, prevention and
27:19
prosecution of welfare. Fraud.
27:21
For too long, agency bureaucrats have pitted citizens access to
27:25
welfare programs against the integrity of those programs.
27:29
Access versus integrity should never be an either or dichotomy.
27:33
We can all agree that access to public assistance is crucial.
27:36
America's citizens should not be hungry or deprived of medical
27:40
care because of their inability to pay.
27:43
However, making sure vulnerable citizens have access to these
27:46
welfare programs should not mean that we simply turn a blind eye
27:49
to integrity. We do not pursue the prevention,
27:52
detection and prosecution of If we do not pursue the prevention,
27:57
detection and prosecution of fraud, taxpayers become the
28:00
victims as the welfare programs become slush funds for anyone
28:04
wanting to supplement their income with SNAP benefits,
28:07
absolve themselves from the financial responsibility of
28:10
medical bills and using Medicaid to further tax pure exploitation
28:14
by taking advantage of cash assistance, energy assistance,
28:18
child care and other social welfare programs.
28:21
One example of a welfare fraud is a case that I investigated
28:25
that was criminally prosecuted last year.
28:27
The applicant mother failed to disclose her children's father
28:30
as well as his employment and income on multiple applications
28:34
she submitted for Medicaid, SNAP and low income energy
28:37
assistance. The Co defendant father worked a
28:40
steady job earning A6 figure salary and provided an enviable
28:43
lifestyle for his family including vacations, luxury
28:47
vehicles, snowmobiles, motorhomes, lavish gifts
28:50
including one from the wife to the husband which was a $1200
28:54
bottle of bourbon. Evidence we presented at trial
28:57
included a candidate registration forms filed by the
29:00
defendant father when he ran for town council and later mayor of
29:04
the town where he declared he lived at the same address
29:07
provided by his wife on her public assistance programs.
29:11
This was a case of greed, but it emphasizes how easy it was for
29:14
these criminals to make false statements on applications in
29:17
order to receive benefits from multiple programs that they were
29:20
never eligible. For.
29:23
I could spend the rest of my day providing countless examples of
29:26
how taxpayer funded programs are exploited and the message would
29:30
be the same. Investigators continue to be
29:32
hamstrung by antiquated regulations, conflicting
29:35
directives from federal agencies, and the lack of access
29:38
to technology. Sadly, investigators have also
29:42
found themselves at odds with the career bureaucrats who
29:45
recite watered down facts about fraud in order to promote their
29:49
political agendas. Specifically, we can look to the
29:52
career bureaucrats who have historically claimed that the
29:55
fraud rate and SNAP is less than 1%.
29:58
The disregard for the value of integrity is evidenced by the
30:01
less than 120th of 1% of the SNAP budget spent on the
30:05
prevention, detection and prosecution of fraud as part of
30:09
Medicaid unwinding debacle. The bureaucrats specifically
30:12
directed states that they, and I quote, cannot recover or recoup
30:17
the cost of services from a beneficiary even if they have
30:20
been found after an administrative hearing or
30:23
criminal proceeding to have committed Medicaid beneficiary
30:26
fraud or abuse. End Quote.
30:29
Sadly, it is already apparent the career bureaucrats are not
30:32
being totally transparent as they attempt to protect spending
30:35
and broken programs. We fail to understand how
30:38
mitigating the rampant fraud in Medicaid, SNAP and other welfare
30:41
programs stands up or strengthens the welfare
30:44
programs. Fact is, the opposite is true.
30:48
Ignoring fraud and gaslighting fraud statistics erodes the very
30:51
foundations of the programs that are essential to their future
30:54
viability. There are these.
30:56
There are things this committee can do to help the investigators
30:59
fighting the war on fraud #1 Eliminate self attestation in
31:04
the application process for all programs #2 funding for
31:08
technology that includes identity verification tools that
31:12
will help prevent fraud. The current pay and chase model
31:15
is not sustainable #3 Immediately implement the
31:19
National Accuracy Clearinghouse, the NAC that will provide data
31:23
to states to prevent duplicate participation in all of the
31:26
social welfare programs. And four, allocate direct
31:30
funding with mandates restricting the use of the
31:32
funding to the prevention, detection and prosecution of
31:35
fraud. In closing, we're at a
31:38
crossroads. Those of us who have first hand
31:41
knowledge of the degree in which public welfare programs are
31:44
being attacked know that reform is absolutely necessary.
31:48
Reform to the recipient application process, the billing
31:51
process, and Medicaid and how SNAP benefits are processed and
31:54
how. Providers and retailers are
31:56
authorized. We thank you for the opportunity
31:59
for you COUGH to participate in this hearing.
32:02
We feel that the investigators who are on the front lines
32:04
fighting the daily battle against the war on fraud need to
32:07
be at the table and participating in the development
32:10
of action plans that will make a difference in protecting the
32:12
programs and defending the taxpayers.
32:20
Thank you, Miss Royal. I now recognize Mr. Whitson for
32:23
his opening statement. Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member
32:28
Stansbury, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the
32:31
opportunity to testify today. On the campaign trail, President
32:35
Trump promised to take on the bloated bureaucracy in DC,
32:38
rebuild trust in the DOJ and the FBI, crack down on waste, fraud
32:43
and abuse, and restore common sense.
32:45
And on day one, he started delivering on those promises
32:48
with a wave of executive orders in the official launch of DOGE,
32:51
which he, of course tasked Elon Musk to lead.
32:55
Already, DOGE efforts have brought to the public's
32:57
attention countless examples of wasteful spending, including $59
33:03
million paid to luxury hotels in New York to house illegal
33:08
immigrants, 1.5 million to advance DEI in Serbia's
33:12
workplaces, $32,000 for a transgender comic book in Peru,
33:20
the list goes on. But rather than applauding the
33:22
work of doge, the left has launched a coordinated campaign
33:25
to try to demonize Mr. Musk with the hope of shifting focus away
33:29
from the disastrous waste, fraud and abuse that occurred on
33:32
Biden's watch. But guess what?
33:35
It's not working. Because no matter what political
33:37
party people hail from, the vast majority of Americans agree that
33:41
$10 million worth of food funneled to Al Qaeda was
33:46
probably not the best use of taxpayer money.
33:48
But there's another source, the key source of wasteful spending
33:52
that those in the subcommittee should set their sights on next,
33:55
and that's Medicaid waste and fraud.
33:57
While initially meant as a program for the truly needy,
34:00
Medicaid is bloated into a massive welfare program for
34:02
millions of able bodied adults lured into the trap of
34:06
government dependency. And as Medicaid has grown, so
34:08
too has mismanagement. Today, more than one in $5 spent
34:13
on Medicaid is improper. In Medicaid alone, fraud and
34:17
mismanagement is on track to cost US taxpayers.
34:20
Get this more than $1 trillion over the next 10 years.
34:25
When it comes to the problem of improper payments, the Medicaid
34:27
program is the biggest culprit and encompassing nearly one
34:31
third of all federal improper payments.
34:33
And more than 80% of Medicaid improper payments are due to one
34:36
thing, eligibility errors. If Congress wants to help
34:39
President Trump address wasteful spending, then targeting
34:42
eligibility errors in Medicaid should be one of your top
34:45
priorities. Bottom line To address this
34:48
challenge, Congress can take 3 decisive actions so 1st Congress
34:52
can strengthen the Medicaid program through legislative
34:54
action. That would include repealing
34:56
Biden's disastrous Medicaid streamlining rule, which ties
35:00
the hands of states trying to remove ineligible enrollees.
35:03
You can and should do this through reconciliation and it
35:06
will produce $164 billion in savings if you do.
35:11
You can also strengthen verification requirements to
35:13
ensure only eligible individuals receive benefits and ensure a
35:16
nationwide knack is implemented without delay.
35:20
Second thing Congress can do is help to help President Trump's
35:22
Doge effort by ensuring that entrenched partisan bureaucrats
35:26
don't stand in the way of reform.
35:28
So Musk and his Doge team have already found hundreds of
35:30
billions of dollars funneled into wasteful, fraudulent, and
35:33
flat out insane projects. But they've only scratched the
35:37
surface. If this much fraud has been
35:39
exposed in just a few weeks, imagine what else is buried
35:42
under layers of red tape and government excuses.
35:46
But guess what? All of these insane projects
35:48
have one thing in common. They were all approved and
35:52
funded by unelected bureaucrats, and these and other entrenched
35:56
bureaucrats are already pledging to fight against President
35:59
Trump's efforts to improve Government Accountability and
36:01
efficiency. Personnel is policy, and without
36:05
competent staff to faithfully execute the President's agenda,
36:08
the DOGE project will fail. And this is where Congress can
36:12
help. Congress can support the
36:14
President and carrying out his DOGE effort by making all
36:16
executive branch employees at will, codifying the President's
36:19
authority to fire unproductive or insubordinate agency
36:23
employees as needed. At the same time, Congress can
36:26
grant the President authority to permanently eliminate vacant
36:29
positions and consolidate non essential positions across
36:33
agencies and departments to help promote efficiency and put the
36:36
right people in the right seat. The third thing Congress can
36:41
make President Trump's DOGE cost cutting and deregulatory reforms
36:45
permanent by passing the REINS Act.
36:48
And so there's only one big problem with the DOGE effort.
36:51
Most of its work can be undone by a future president with a
36:54
stroke of a pen. To make President Trump's dose
36:57
reforms permanent, Congress must act, and the best way to do this
37:01
is to pass the REINS Act. This would return Article 1
37:05
budgetary power of the purse to Congress while promoting
37:08
deregulation. It would also help lock in the
37:11
dose reforms and cement President Trump's legacy as the
37:15
most consequential deregulatory and cost cutting president in
37:18
U.S. history. The American people are
37:21
watching. It's time for Congress to act.
37:24
Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
37:28
Thank you, Mr. Whitson. I now recognize Mr. Hettler got
37:31
it for his opening statement. Thank you, Chairwoman Green,
37:37
Ranking Member Stansbury, and members of the subcommittee.
37:40
My name is Dylan Hettler Gaudet, and I'm the Director of
37:43
Government Affairs at the Project on Government Oversight
37:45
or Pogo. I appreciate the opportunity to
37:48
be with you here today to talk about the critical issue of
37:51
bringing more accountability and transparency to federal
37:53
spending, including rooting out waste, fraud and abuse.
37:57
Since our founding in 1981, Pogo has been focused on promoting
38:02
more accountability and rooting out wasteful spending and
38:05
promoting efficiency, especially at the Department of Defense.
38:09
We have a long and well established track record on
38:11
these issues and we take aback when it comes to promoting a
38:15
better and more effective government, which necessarily
38:18
includes a federal government that is a good and responsible
38:21
steward of taxpayer dollars. Let's take a moment to pause
38:24
here to talk a little bit about terms that we're going to hear a
38:26
lot today and the difference between them.
38:30
Waste is different from fraud, fraud is different from abuse,
38:33
and abuse is different from both.
38:35
When we talk about improper payments, they are a subset of
38:38
those other three categories, but that doesn't tell us the
38:40
whole picture either. Sometimes improper payments are
38:43
a function of bad record keeping.
38:45
Sometimes there are a function of outdated information
38:47
technology systems. Sometimes they come about
38:50
through human error, and sometimes they come about
38:52
through negligence. There are a variety of reasons
38:54
why improper payments happen. It just simply is not the case
38:59
that improper payments are only a function of bad people doing
39:03
bad things with bad intent. That doesn't mean we shouldn't
39:07
focus on trying to mitigate improper payments, and that
39:09
certainly doesn't mean that the American people should not be
39:11
concerned with how their tax dollars are used.
39:16
The good news is that there are some time tested solutions and
39:19
tools to help mitigate these problems.
39:21
For example, when we think about the independence of inspectors
39:25
General, we're talking about a resource that is extraordinarily
39:30
valuable to the American people. In fiscal year 2023 alone,
39:35
inspectors General identified over $93 billion worth of
39:38
potential savings to taxpayers. Whistleblowers are also an
39:41
incredible resource to the American taxpayer.
39:45
Through the IR s s whistleblower program alone, billions of
39:48
dollars have been recouped from tax cheats since the inception
39:52
of that program in 2007. Whistleblowers have also played
39:55
an instrumental role in helping the Department of Justice pursue
39:58
False Claims Act cases that have resulted in billions of dollars
40:03
in reclaims settlement costs. It seems to me that if an
40:08
administration were serious about wanting to root out waste,
40:10
fraud and abuse, they would support.
40:13
And resource whistleblowers and inspectors general.
40:16
They would not demonize them and they would certainly not fire
40:18
them on Moss in a unlawful midnight purge.
40:24
There are other reforms we can think about too, reforms that
40:27
are more technical but just as important.
40:30
Key statutes such as the Federal Funding Accountability and
40:32
Transparency Act, the DATA Act, and critical platforms like
40:37
usaspending.gov were really were really important improvements
40:41
and innovations when they came about, but they are in need of
40:43
overhaul and reform. Currently, the status quo is
40:47
that we have an extraordinarily hard time tracking federal
40:51
dollars from end to end. This is due in large part to a
40:54
broken chain of data collection, of reporting information and the
40:59
ability to monitor and track in real time what is happening with
41:02
federal dollars. This informational black hole is
41:07
where a lot of impropriety happens.
41:09
It's where waste, fraud and abuse live.
41:10
And yes, this is where improper payments often happen.
41:14
But more importantly, we also don't have a good, clear and
41:18
consistent way of understanding what is happening with tax
41:21
dollars at the end point. What is the impact that we're
41:24
having? What is the return on investment
41:26
that we're having? We now have an annual budget of
41:30
close to $7 trillion a year. We can't say with any degree,
41:33
degree of clarity and consistency what we're getting
41:36
for all of that money. We have some more good news
41:40
though. There are bipartisan efforts and
41:41
there have been for years to try and clean up this situation.
41:44
We at Pogo have had the privilege and pleasure of
41:47
working on some of those initiatives.
41:50
We were a part of of the federal Taxpayers Right to No Act being
41:54
passed into law just a couple of years ago, which created for the
41:56
very first time a program inventory all the programs in
42:00
the federal government and that would be available to the
42:02
public. We have worked with a member of
42:05
this very committee, the House Oversight and Accountability
42:07
Committee to introduce a piece of legislation that would bring
42:09
more transparency to federal sub award reporting.
42:14
We have supported and endorsed multiple pieces of legislation
42:16
that take direct aim at the improper payment issue.
42:20
We also have additional ideas that don't yet have
42:22
congressional champions. One proposal is to clean up and
42:25
modernize and standardize the award descriptions that are
42:28
available in USA spending to make them more useful and
42:30
relevant. We have another proposal to
42:33
harmonize the amount of data and information we collect between
42:36
contract spending and non contract spending.
42:39
We stand ready, willing and able to work with anybody who wants
42:42
to work with us on these common sense solutions.
42:46
Lastly, I want to put in a quick word for Congress, and
42:49
specifically I want. To the gentleman's time has
42:52
expired. Apologies.
42:54
Yes. I can't see the flashing.
42:56
Wind, that's OK. Thank you, Mr. Hatler.
42:58
Got it. We, we appreciate your
42:59
testimony. I now recognize myself for 5
43:04
minutes of questions. I'd like to thank our witnesses
43:07
today for your testimonies and the suggestions that if you have
43:11
brought before this committee. I'd also like to thank Chairman
43:14
Comer for this opportunity to chair the Historic Oversight
43:18
Subcommittee on Dodge. Americans are shocked to learn
43:23
that $2.7 trillion of their hard earned tax dollars have been
43:30
stolen or wasted and improper payments since 2003.
43:34
You see, in the private sector, companies can't continue, they
43:39
can't continue to run if they keep employees that allow waste
43:44
and abuse with their resources. But that has continued for
43:48
decades here in the federal government.
43:51
Mr. Talco, do private sector companies have a lower rate of
43:56
improper payments in the federal government?
43:59
Yes, the fraud rate the that the criminals are taking advantage
44:05
of in the public sector is around 20%.
44:08
In the private sector it's around 3%.
44:10
And it's really because the tools that are used in the
44:13
private sector aren't used in the public sector.
44:17
Front end identity verification, self certification, and then
44:22
finally making sure that individuals are who they say
44:28
they are. If we start using these tools,
44:31
you will see the fraud rate go down dramatically because for
44:34
the most part, this fraud isn't taking place by real
44:37
individuals. It's individuals whose
44:40
identities have been stolen on the dark web.
44:43
They use that information pretending to be somebody else,
44:46
and because of the antiquated systems, processes and
44:48
technologies in place and government programs, they're
44:51
able to steal at scale. Right.
44:53
So, Mr. Talcov, we would say that private companies that
44:56
pretty much have to exist on a 20% profit rate, they are not
45:01
allowed, they can't continue to to be successful if they were to
45:05
allow their customers data to be stolen like that and used by
45:08
criminals. However, the federal government
45:10
who can continue printing checks and continue in operation never
45:14
fixes its problems because it can't be forced to go out of
45:18
business. Would you agree with that?
45:19
Yes or no? Yes, one of the things I noticed
45:21
during COVID was the criminals learned that government was the
45:25
mark because it never runs out of money and they focus on it at
45:31
scale and then the likelihood of getting caught is virtually 0.
45:35
I think it's outrageous for Americans to know that their
45:38
identity can be stolen and then used for child trafficking, drug
45:42
trafficking and terrorism. Like you stated in your opening
45:46
statement. Miss Royal, your testimony
45:48
states that many programs operate under essentially an
45:51
honor system in which applicants need not verify their identity,
45:56
income, residency, or other other key eligibility factors.
46:01
You call this a trust everyone instead of a trust by verify
46:06
approach. Does this mean the federal
46:08
government in some states are giving out billions of dollars
46:11
to individuals without verifying who they are or whether they
46:15
meet program eligibility requirements?
46:18
Yes, ma'am, that's correct. Out.
46:20
That's outrageous. Do do states have enough
46:23
incentive to prevent fraud and to recover improper payments?
46:28
No, and in fact, states are hesitant to spend their state
46:32
dollars to protect federal dollars.
46:35
Would greater investment in program integrity efforts yield
46:38
a positive return for taxpayers? Yes, it could easily be self
46:41
funding. Amazing.
46:43
Mr. Whitson, your testimony states that both the Biden and
46:46
Obama administrations issued rules and guidance that made it
46:50
harder for states to verify eligibility for Medicaid.
46:53
You say that repealing Biden's Medicaid streamlining rule would
46:57
save 164 billion / 10 years because the rule restricts
47:02
eligibility verification that states can perform.
47:07
Can you explain why this rule is so costly?
47:10
Yeah, so the rule does a number of things, but for instance, it
47:14
prohibits states from verifying eligibility more than once a
47:17
year. So for non disabled folks to
47:20
just go in and look and say, hey, are you still eligible for
47:22
the program? It says you are forbidden from
47:24
doing that any more often than once a year.
47:27
And so obviously people's lives change and so they may become
47:30
ineligible. And so it's designed to keep
47:31
them on the program. Another thing, it prohibits in
47:35
person or phone interviews to verify their identity.
47:37
So people apply for it and then the person on the other end
47:41
says, I just want to call and make sure this is a real person,
47:43
not someone in another country, whatever the the rule prohibits
47:47
that. And so there's a number of other
47:48
provisions. It it also opens a lengthy
47:51
reconsideration periods. And this is where illegal
47:54
immigrants are able to obtain the benefits.
47:55
And so basically it says once you get, you know, these
47:58
benefits, you can't interfere with it for a 90 day period or
48:01
longer. And so there's a number of
48:03
horrible things. Thank you.
48:04
Thanks. So we can't verify if someone is
48:06
illegal or legal receiving, but just to correct that yes or.
48:10
No, you have to wait. At least a state has to wait at
48:12
least 90 days. And actually what we're seeing
48:14
is it's LED some states to wait as long as 13 years and so on.
48:19
The unbelievable My time has expired.
48:21
Thank you very much. I now recognize Mr. Lynch from
48:24
Massachusetts for 5 minutes. Thank.
48:27
Thank you very much. Madam Chair, first of all, let
48:30
me congratulate you and, and also Miss Stansbury on your new
48:34
positions. And I want to thank the
48:37
witnesses for, for your testimony.
48:39
We've already heard some, some good ideas about how to work
48:42
together. And Mr. Hatberg Gaudette, I for
48:46
one, would be most open to, to working with Pogo and, and, and
48:51
trying to work on some of the legislative ideas that you have
48:54
to actually get at some of this waste, fraud and abuse.
49:00
Since this is my first opportunity to speak in this new
49:02
subcommittee as the representative for the 8th
49:05
Congressional District in Massachusetts, I want to first
49:08
of all make clear that my my primary purpose in seeking
49:12
appointment to this subcommittee is for the singular and sacred
49:16
purpose to defend our democracy, which I believe is under attack
49:20
in this country, and to uphold my oath to support and defend
49:25
the Constitution against those who might secretly or openly
49:29
seek its destruction. Make no mistake, this is a
49:32
moment for representative democracy.
49:35
This is a test of our resolve. In the coming days and weeks, we
49:39
will all get to decide whether we stand with a couple of
49:43
billionaires who, despite their own financial successes, still
49:48
harbor such grievances in their hearts that after all that
49:51
democracy has provided to them, they remain.
49:54
They remain animated by the desire to dismantle this
49:58
democratic government and to punch down that's some of the
50:02
weakest and most vulnerable in our society.
50:05
Two men who clearly understand that the easiest way to incite
50:08
large numbers of people is to use social media to exploit the
50:12
dynamic forces of hatred and fear.
50:17
Madam Chair, if we're going after waste, fraud and abuse,
50:20
let's start with abuse, abuse of power.
50:24
As of yesterday, there were 55 lawsuits under consideration by
50:28
the federal courts across our nation.
50:31
I As a result of Elon Musk's and President Trump's unlawful acts,
50:36
many of those lawsuits have already been sustained by the
50:39
federal district courts and have been rent and orders have been
50:43
rendered to undo those unlawful acts.
50:46
But this is just the beginning and Congress has an important
50:50
role to play and I for one, look forward to that opportunity.
50:55
This is a moment of great consequence for our country and
50:58
for our democracy. And I remain grateful to the
51:01
good people of the 8th Congressional District of
51:02
Massachusetts who sent me here. Mr. Hatler Gaudet, again, happy
51:08
to join you on some of your efforts.
51:10
Pogo has worked very closely with our IG community.
51:15
Is that right? The inspector General's?
51:18
Yeah, that's correct, Congressman.
51:19
I know your work is, is, is very much similar to what we ask our
51:23
inspectors generals to to undertake.
51:27
I want to ask you what, what do you think?
51:30
So, so in the most recent report from the inspector general's,
51:35
and this is the Council of the Inspector General's, a
51:37
nonpartisan group on integrity and efficiency in government,
51:42
they identified more than $93 billion in potential savings.
51:48
So the first thing that President Trump did coming into
51:52
office was to fire, fire 17 agency inspectors general.
51:59
What, what can you tell us from Pogo's standpoint?
52:03
What, what does that do to our ability to identify and and root
52:08
out waste, fraud and abuse? Thank you, Congressman.
52:14
I would say to put it simply, it completely undermines our
52:16
ability to root out waste, fraud and abuse.
52:19
Inspector General exists for essentially one purpose and they
52:21
were originally created in the the immediate aftermath of
52:24
Watergate. And I think you all probably do
52:27
not need me to give you a history lesson at all.
52:28
And what happened in the Watergate era.
52:30
There's a reason they were created at that time, because
52:32
there was a lot of waste, fraud and abuse happening.
52:33
And there were not cops on the beat that were internal, that
52:36
were independent, that were situated in agencies to be able
52:40
to find these things and expose them and do something about
52:42
them. That's what Inspector General
52:44
exists to do. So it's completely anathema to,
52:48
I say anathema to any stated mission to find cost saving and
52:51
to root out waste, fraud and abuse to fire Inspector General
52:55
and to undermine them. It it makes no sense.
52:57
Those two things do not add up. Thank you very much.
53:01
The the firings that occurred on the when President Trump came to
53:06
the office included the special inject Inspector General for
53:10
Afghan reconstruction, Mr. Sopko.
53:13
I actually did over 20 trips to Afghanistan working with him.
53:16
He actually uncovered $4 billion in in savings in rooting out
53:21
American taxpayer waste being conducted in Afghanistan.
53:26
The IG at the Department of Defense the agency.
53:29
The gentleman's time has expired, OK?
53:31
Thank. Thank you, Madam Chair.
53:32
I yield back. Thank you.
53:33
OK. Thank you.
53:34
Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman
53:36
from Texas, Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Madam Chair.
53:41
For far too long, DC politicians have gotten away with measuring
53:44
their personal value and worth by how much of other people's
53:48
money they give away. And for far too long they self
53:52
righteously have opined that the spending was for altruistic
53:55
purposes, given out of care and compassion.
53:58
For far too long, they've been more concerned with looking like
54:02
they cared than having enough care and concern to actually do
54:05
the due diligence to ensure that the tax dollars were being used
54:09
wisely and effectively. And for far too long, those of
54:13
us who've worked to uncover waste, fraud and abuse have had
54:16
to deal with what amounts to an unconstitutional 4th branch of
54:19
permanent bureaucracy that has too often worked to ignore,
54:24
obfuscate, delay, and frustrate our efforts to bring
54:27
transparency and oversight. Over the last few weeks, the
54:31
Doge effort has begun to uncover not only how massive the waste,
54:34
fraud and abuse is, but also the extent at which DC politicians
54:39
and too many obstinate bureaucrats have coordinated
54:42
create what is essentially the largest money laundering scheme
54:45
in history. And while Americans have been
54:47
working to make ends meet, they have been using taxpayer dollars
54:52
to fund unnecessary, egregious, and even evil things here at
54:55
home and around the world. Thankfully, Indoge, we have a
55:00
president bringing the leadership needed and a focused
55:03
effort along with the talent, technology, tools and
55:07
transparency to this waste, fraud and abuse.
55:12
And to those who would stand opposed to this effort, I would
55:16
just point out, while it's understandable to find waste,
55:18
fraud and abuse that has grown and metastasized in this
55:22
government even over decades, certainly accelerated over the
55:26
last few years, to continue to protect it is corruption.
55:31
I want to thank the chair for beginning this war on waste on
55:34
this side of Pennsylvania Ave. and bringing together this
55:38
committee. This effort is so important as
55:40
we work to relieve the Americans people of this burden of waste,
55:45
fraud and abuse. Mr. Taco, you mentioned in your
55:48
written statement and talked about it in your your statement
55:52
at the beginning that this waste, fraud and abuse is a
55:55
national security threat. And certainly one of the
55:57
challenges facing us. It is a national security,
55:59
security threat is our fiscal situation.
56:01
And so we have got to find ways to find savings to the American
56:04
people in order to strengthen the bring confidence to the bond
56:08
markets to to put our country on a fiscal footing and and to
56:12
reverse the curse, so to speak, that we are placing on our our
56:15
children and our grandchildren. You mentioned a couple threats,
56:18
though you mentioned internal threats.
56:20
You said that these cases involve government employees,
56:24
individuals entrusted with administering benefits who
56:27
instead of using their positions to approve fraudulent claims,
56:30
override security controls or even sell sensitive claim
56:35
claimant information for profit. Now, this is not every federal
56:38
employee for sure, but within the context of people who are
56:42
trying to give their best effort, we have an internal
56:44
threat. But you also mentioned
56:46
transnational fraud rings, terrorist organizationals,
56:49
nations, nation states, North Korea, nuclear weapons program
56:52
funded by our tax dollars, China, Nigeria, Iran, Romania,
56:55
Russia, not our friends necessarily that are being
56:58
funded by taxpayer dollars. Could you give us some examples
57:01
of how this is happening? Yeah.
57:03
So when you think about what happened during the pandemic, $1
57:07
trillion was stolen, 70% of that money went overseas.
57:14
And I can give you some examples And a Western state, they had
57:18
more people applying for unemployment insurance benefits
57:21
and they had individuals over 18.
57:24
The people that were stealing the money from Romania were
57:27
using it to facilitate other fraud schemes that include
57:31
fentanyl, that include doing things to impact our democracy
57:36
on the insider thread, right? The first thing you have to say,
57:39
and my dad was a public servant, is 99% of people that work in
57:43
the public sector are honest, hard working individuals.
57:47
But there are some, and what you need is data and technology to
57:52
root that out. There were examples during the
57:54
pandemic. There were some examples even of
57:57
last week where people got into the Medicaid system in a
58:00
southern in a western state and stole $50 million in less than
58:06
four months. So you have to have these
58:08
controls in place, right? These aren't individuals
58:12
stealing Mr. Cloud. These are organized criminal
58:15
groups, both domestic and transnational that as you
58:18
mentioned, taxpayers are being forced to fund the demise of our
58:22
own country. Mr. Winston, I wanted to ask you
58:25
because there's a lot of talk about reconciliation right now.
58:28
You mentioned Medicaid and what could be done to to bring a
58:32
pretty substantial amount of savings.
58:34
And this is without affecting those who truly need Medicaid
58:38
and and for what the the purpose of the program was extended for
58:42
now. The The gentleman's time has
58:45
expired. Does the witness want to answer
58:49
the question? No, only to say that yes,
58:51
there's a a tremendous amount of savings that can be found from
58:54
the streamlining rule, but also work requirements in the program
58:57
is another big area that can be done in reconciliation and
58:59
that's could save a significant amount as well, 241 billion in
59:04
federal spending for 10 years. Thank you.
59:08
Thank you, Madam Chair. You're welcome.
59:10
I now recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Garcia.
59:14
Well, thank you. Thank you to all of our
59:15
witnesses for being here. And I want to just start off by
59:18
making something clear. I think we're all here to fight
59:22
against the lives of corruptions and the attacks on our social
59:25
safety net. Now, we should in no way be
59:27
cooperating with House Republicans who want to shut
59:30
down the Department of Education and destroy Medicare and
59:34
Medicaid. And we should not stand by as
59:36
the richest man on the planet gives himself and his companies
59:41
huge tax cuts while the American people get absolutely nothing.
59:46
Now I find it ironic, of course, that our chairwoman,
59:49
Congresswoman Green, is in charge of running this
59:51
committee. Now, in the last Congress,
59:53
Chairwoman Green literally showed a Dick pic in our
59:57
oversight congressional hearing, so I thought I'd bring one as
1:00:00
well. Now, this, of course, we know is
1:00:06
President Elon Musk. He's also the world's richest
1:00:10
man. He was the biggest political
1:00:12
donor in the last election. He has billions of dollars in
1:00:15
conflicts of interest. And we know that he is leading a
1:00:18
power grab also abided by and encouraged by Donald Trump and
1:00:23
of course, the cherry woman, Congresswoman Green.
1:00:26
But I also want to run through what which judge actually is
1:00:28
going to do. It's a demolition plan that's
1:00:30
going to run through our government.
1:00:33
Judge is trying to abolish the Department of Education.
1:00:36
That means opportunities denied to kids.
1:00:38
It means you're ripping away opportunities for children with
1:00:41
disabilities who are dependent on this money.
1:00:44
You're also halting medical research, which is also
1:00:47
critical, which we have to also stop.
1:00:49
The idea that we are going to eliminate or destroy the
1:00:52
Department of National Institutes of Health and NIH is
1:00:56
crazy. Let's talk about the Department
1:00:58
of Labor. We're talking about protections
1:01:00
for working people across this country where people can
1:01:03
actually complain about abuses their companies are making
1:01:05
against them and their Co workers.
1:01:07
Workers are now going to be in danger.
1:01:10
Let's also talk about the Consumer Financial Protection
1:01:12
Bureau, another huge issue for us.
1:01:16
Think about the scammers and fraudsters that will be
1:01:18
empowered across this country because Elon Musk wants
1:01:23
essentially these companies have more power over consumers and
1:01:27
over people across this country. Look at the Centers for Disease
1:01:30
and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
1:01:33
That is actually what's being discussed partly today.
1:01:36
Healthcare, we're talking about being denied to millions of poor
1:01:40
people, working class people across this country.
1:01:44
And now, of course, they're on to their largest target, the US
1:01:48
Social Security Administration. We're talking about this, the
1:01:51
destruction of the actual social safety net in this country.
1:01:55
We know that one in five Americans collect Social
1:01:58
Security, seniors, disabled people.
1:02:01
This entire plan is about hurting the American social
1:02:05
safety net and destroying our institutions.
1:02:07
And it's important that we actually call out what is
1:02:10
happening at this subcommittee. This is not about working with
1:02:13
the richest man on the planet. This is actually about
1:02:15
empowering. This committee wants to empower
1:02:18
the richest person in the world to hurt people so they can take
1:02:22
all of this money that they so-called want to save and then
1:02:27
give it to themselves, their companies and their billionaire
1:02:31
friends. That is the attack that is
1:02:32
happening in this committee and across this country, and it's
1:02:36
important that we call it out. We also know, of course, that
1:02:40
Elon Musk is sending his unqualified DOGE staff to carry
1:02:44
out this agenda across all of these agencies and in some
1:02:48
cases, actually teenage staffers.
1:02:52
No accountability, no experience and problematic records.
1:02:56
They're trying to rob you and they're probably a minor.
1:03:01
Thank you and I yield back. The gentleman yields, and I now
1:03:09
recognize the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, for
1:03:13
5 minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
1:03:15
I find it sad that my colleagues across the aisle can't take this
1:03:17
seriously. We have $36 trillion in debt.
1:03:21
We run an annual almost $2 trillion deficit.
1:03:23
When I got elected six years ago, we had $21 trillion in
1:03:27
debt. So in six years we've added over
1:03:30
$15 trillion to the debt. And guess what?
1:03:34
President Trump ran on fixing this problem.
1:03:37
President Trump told the American people he would right
1:03:40
the ship financially. And he said during the campaign
1:03:43
that Elon Musk was going to be the person to lead this charge,
1:03:46
the man that has turned business after business around.
1:03:48
He's the richest man on the planet because he succeeds at
1:03:51
his endeavors. And that's why President Trump
1:03:53
has appointed him the head of this effort.
1:03:56
This is a very serious problem. And it's incredibly hypocritical
1:04:01
that my colleagues across the aisle are complaining about this
1:04:04
because Joe Biden, Joe Biden signed his name and wanted the
1:04:10
American people to believe that he had the ability to forgive
1:04:14
$250 billion with a signature. Guess what?
1:04:19
Supreme Court ruled he did not. That's our system of checks and
1:04:23
balances. The President Biden, he clearly
1:04:30
was experiencing cognitive decline.
1:04:31
He didn't even have the ability to be charged with a crime as
1:04:35
determined by his own Department of Justice.
1:04:37
But he signs his name and he thinks it gives a quarter of a
1:04:42
trillion dollars away, redistributes taxpayer dollars.
1:04:45
It's just crazy that we can't come together to address the
1:04:49
greatest national security threat facing this country, our
1:04:52
debt. Now to the task at hand,
1:04:56
Medicaid fraud. Mr. Talco, if we implement
1:05:02
enhanced identity verification and enhanced income
1:05:04
verification, what will happen? How much money will we save?
1:05:10
You'll save hundreds of billions of dollars.
1:05:14
Identity verification, elimination of self
1:05:17
certification and monitoring beneficiaries will prevent these
1:05:22
transnational criminal groups from accessing those systems at
1:05:25
scales to legitimate people who need the benefits can get them
1:05:28
in a timely fashion. So we're going to get actual
1:05:31
benefits to people, to American citizens that are in need faster
1:05:36
because if you do it electronically through web-based
1:05:39
like they did in Missouri where the pilot program saved almost
1:05:42
20% of Medicaid dollars. So all we have to do is adopt
1:05:47
what has already been proven in Missouri and we'll save 20%.
1:05:52
To the people out there listening, we spend almost $900
1:05:55
billion every year on Medicaid, and if 20% of that is saved,
1:06:01
that's almost $200 billion. We got a $1.8 trillion annual
1:06:06
deficit. We just knocked off 200 billion.
1:06:09
Let's keep this train going. The fact that the Democrats are
1:06:14
filing lawsuit after lawsuit to impede the efforts of President
1:06:18
Trump to right our fiscal ship is unforgivable.
1:06:22
It's unforgivable. Mr. Talcov, you talked about
1:06:27
pandemic fraud. I have a bill that would 'cause
1:06:30
the IRS to share data with the Small Business Administration
1:06:35
and the FBI and the Department of Justice that would show that
1:06:38
you were ineligible for PPP loans and you got them.
1:06:43
So I think that would save probably 100 billion.
1:06:48
Do do you think that we should go back and take money away from
1:06:51
people that fraudulently got COVID money during the pandemic?
1:06:57
The PPP program was a virtual buffet for fraudsters.
1:07:01
And it was because of that 1974 Privacy Act where data sharing
1:07:06
and matching is virtually impossible.
1:07:08
Congress needs to change that. But we can do it retroactively.
1:07:11
We can do it retroactively. We can find the people that
1:07:13
stole this money, hold them accountable, probably get some
1:07:15
of the money back. So I already have that bill
1:07:17
filed. That bill I think would probably
1:07:20
get $100 billion. So now we got enhanced identity
1:07:25
verification, enhanced income verification.
1:07:28
That has been proven in Missouri.
1:07:30
It does work. So I'm working on that bill.
1:07:32
We're going to drop it soon. That's $200 billion.
1:07:35
There's a competition in Congress.
1:07:36
I think we should have a competition on this committee.
1:07:39
I got $300 billion in savings proposed.
1:07:43
We got to all pull our weight because we have such a massive
1:07:46
problem right now. But I would just ask my
1:07:48
colleagues across the House to get out of the way if you don't
1:07:50
want to help, if you don't want to help, right the fiscal ship
1:07:54
in this country, get out of the way.
1:07:55
Stop filing lawsuit after lawsuit.
1:07:58
We do not have the financial ability to continue down this
1:08:02
path. And we're going to save this
1:08:04
country with or without you. You can kick and scream all the
1:08:06
way or you can get out of the way.
1:08:08
I prefer the former. Thank you, Madam Chair.
1:08:12
The gentleman yields. I now recognize the gentleman
1:08:14
from Texas, Mr. Kassar. This subcommittee is supposedly
1:08:20
about looking into waste, fraud and abuse, so I'd like to start
1:08:25
talking about independent inspector generals who are
1:08:28
supposed to be looking into waste, fraud, and abuse.
1:08:32
Mr. Telco, do you know how many inspector generals at agencies
1:08:36
that were investigating Elon Musk's companies have been fired
1:08:40
by the Trump Musk administration?
1:08:42
No, it is five. Miss Royal, the Inspector
1:08:45
General at the Department of Labor, had 17 open
1:08:48
investigations into Tesla and SpaceX.
1:08:51
Do you know what the Trump Musk administration did to that
1:08:54
Inspector General? No.
1:08:56
They they fired him. And I think you'll know, Mr.
1:08:59
Whitson, the Inspector General, Department of Transportation was
1:09:02
investigating Tesla. Do you know what the Trump Musk
1:09:04
administration did that Inspector General?
1:09:07
No, they were fired. The Department of Defense's
1:09:10
Inspector General was looking into SpaceX.
1:09:13
Mr. Headler, you know what the Trump Musk administration did to
1:09:16
that Inspector General? I believe he was fired.
1:09:20
Thank you. I think everybody on the panel
1:09:22
knows what the answer to these questions were. the US
1:09:25
Department of Agriculture Inspector General was
1:09:27
investigating Musk's Neuralink, Mr. Talcove.
1:09:31
Now, I'll ask you again, Underoath, you know what Mr.
1:09:34
Trump did to that Inspector General that was looking into
1:09:36
one of Musk's companies? No, he was fired.
1:09:39
The Inspector General at the EPA was repeatedly taking on Tesla.
1:09:44
Mr. Headler, since it seems that you're answering the questions
1:09:47
that every knows the answer to, do you know what the Trump Musk
1:09:50
administration did to that Inspector General?
1:09:52
I believe he was also fired. Also fired.
1:09:55
At least five inspector generals that we're looking into.
1:10:00
Elon Musk's companies were fired by the Trump Musk
1:10:03
administration. These inspector generals who are
1:10:06
independent, protected by law, they are the people that find
1:10:10
the waste, fraud and abuse and found many of the cases of
1:10:13
waste, fraud and abuse that have been brought up today, fired
1:10:16
because they were looking into Elon Musk at the NLRB, the
1:10:20
National Labor Relations Board, which is supposed to protect
1:10:23
workers from getting their unions busted by folks like Elon
1:10:26
Musk, made functionally broken by the so-called Department of
1:10:32
Government efficiency. That really is the Department of
1:10:35
Government efficiency for Elon Musk, not for you.
1:10:38
They are trying to shut down the Department of Education, the
1:10:41
Department of Labor. You know what?
1:10:44
Elon Musk doesn't seem to be looking into his own contracts
1:10:48
again. I'll ask you, Mr. Talco, do you
1:10:50
know how much money a day Mr. Musk will receive from the
1:10:55
federal government for his contracts?
1:10:58
No, the answer is $8 million a day.
1:11:01
Just last year, Elon Musk was promised $3 billion from close
1:11:06
to 100 contracts with the federal government.
1:11:11
Miss Royal, do you know how much the average person in this
1:11:14
country who survives on Social Security?
1:11:16
One of our seniors who's worked their entire life about how much
1:11:19
they have to survive on a day. I do not. $65 a day.
1:11:23
We're not looking into Elon Musk's $8 million a day.
1:11:27
This subcommittee chaired by Marjorie Taylor Green and the
1:11:30
House Republicans is looking into your grandmother's $65 a
1:11:35
day. Let me be clear, I think we
1:11:38
would all support taxpayer savings.
1:11:42
Look into money we might needlessly send to billionaires
1:11:45
and big corporations. Find taxpayer savings and send
1:11:48
it back to your hard working family.
1:11:50
But instead, what House Republicans and the Trump Musk
1:11:53
administration want to do is they want to look into your kids
1:11:57
lunch money, your kids teachers salary into your grandparents
1:12:02
Social Security. They want to take that money and
1:12:05
give it out in billionaire tax cuts.
1:12:07
And they are talking about that in committee tomorrow, in budget
1:12:10
committee tomorrow. They just released their plan.
1:12:12
So let me be clear, when Republicans talk about
1:12:15
government efficiency in this Congress, they're not looking
1:12:18
into billionaires who don't pay their taxes.
1:12:20
They're not looking into billionaires who get rich off of
1:12:22
government contracts. They're not looking into Elon
1:12:25
Musk firing watchdogs who are supposed to keep him
1:12:28
accountable. They're looking at cutting your
1:12:29
public schools. They're going straight for your
1:12:31
Social Security. They're coming straight for
1:12:33
Cancer Research. They're coming straight for the
1:12:35
Department of Education. They're not looking at big Tech.
1:12:37
They're not looking at Big Pharma because those people fund
1:12:40
their campaigns. If this committee we're serious
1:12:43
about rooting out waste from our federal government, then today's
1:12:46
whole hearing would be about how Musk and Donald Trump are firing
1:12:49
the independent watchdogs who've done this work for decades.
1:12:53
Instead, my Republican colleagues actual goal on this
1:12:56
committee is to distract from Trump and from Musk's corrupt
1:13:00
war on accountability. This will not be a subcommittee
1:13:03
dedicated to making government efficient for everyday people.
1:13:07
It's about helping Elon Musk and Donald Trump be as efficient as
1:13:11
possible in robbing our government and handing out our
1:13:15
government service services to A to the rich.
1:13:18
So this seems that this subcommittee is just.
1:13:20
The gentleman's time has expired.
1:13:24
A total sham. The American people are $36
1:13:27
trillion in debt. It certainly seems reasonable
1:13:30
that someone has been fired. I now recognize the gentleman
1:13:34
from Tennessee. You're not recognized, Mr.
1:13:38
Burchett. You're recognized for 5 minutes.
1:13:40
Thank you chair lady. The gravy train for a lot of
1:13:45
these folks, it's been on biscuit wheels and it's about to
1:13:48
run off the dead gum tracks and it's about time.
1:13:51
Could you imagine standing up here and defending waste, fraud
1:13:55
and abuse? But I think that's what we're
1:13:57
seeing when people squeal and don't ask questions.
1:14:01
I think it shows the American public what the heck's going on.
1:14:04
And that little gravy train is getting ready to run out.
1:14:07
The spigot is getting ready to be turned off.
1:14:09
Mr. Talcove, that's correct how you say your name, brother.
1:14:13
Yes, Sir. All right, how can the federal
1:14:15
government improve identity verification for these
1:14:18
entitlement programs? Yeah, it's doing what the
1:14:21
private sector does every single day.
1:14:25
Whether you use your bank, you go to Amazon.
1:14:27
Using those tools and moving away from some of the dated
1:14:31
compliance standards at the federal government uses NIST IAL
1:14:35
863 2017 before there was anything called deepfakes and
1:14:41
generative AI tools. I also I was informed that
1:14:47
PayPal has never been they've never been able to crack into
1:14:52
that and steal people's vital information.
1:14:54
Are they using those systems that you would be favorable
1:14:58
towards that government seems to be shying away from yes Sir and
1:15:03
describe that how that works. They're they're systems that are
1:15:08
based on encryption. They use technology and they use
1:15:13
data to validate you are who you say you are.
1:15:16
The people that are stealing right now, I believe a lot of
1:15:19
them are actually ghosts from China, Russia, Nigeria and
1:15:22
Romania. I read a report today that North
1:15:25
Korea was involved in this and some of that as well.
1:15:28
And those people are enemies again.
1:15:31
They'll hate us for free. We don't have to give them
1:15:34
taxpayer money. And are there loopholes that can
1:15:37
be closed to avoid these improper payments?
1:15:39
And I wish you'd describe those to me.
1:15:42
The the, the biggest, most important thing, particularly in
1:15:45
the benefit program space is the use of self certification.
1:15:50
As Mr. Timmons noted, the state of Missouri is using a solution
1:15:53
called Steady IQ to validate wages and wealth.
1:15:57
You have, you cannot allow individuals to provide the
1:16:00
information based upon what they think.
1:16:03
It has to be based on what you know.
1:16:05
And that will stop the ghosts from using people's identities
1:16:09
to steal money from US taxpayers.
1:16:13
How much money do you calculate is wasted due to waste, fraud
1:16:17
and abuse and the entitlement programs each year?
1:16:20
My number right now between federal, state and local
1:16:23
government is you can save $1 trillion a year by simply
1:16:28
putting in front end identity verification, eliminating self
1:16:31
certification, and monitoring the back end of the programs
1:16:36
that are providing the benefits. Those three things, you said you
1:16:39
could eliminate that, but there are others.
1:16:41
You feel like some more low hanging fruit.
1:16:45
I would start with those three things because they're simple.
1:16:49
That'll take that 20% fraud rate that you're seeing in the public
1:16:52
sector down below 5%. Chairlady, I would suggest that
1:16:56
we adopt Mr. Timmons legislation and get that out of the
1:17:02
committee as fast as possible. What actions also could Congress
1:17:07
take to fix these problems quickly?
1:17:09
I think the the first thing is updating and redoing the 1974
1:17:16
Privacy Act. That is virtually impossible to
1:17:20
do data matching. It's very difficult to have data
1:17:25
shared and when you look back at the pandemic, data sharing and
1:17:29
data matching would have stopped probably 50% of the trillion
1:17:33
dollars that was stolen from taxpayers.
1:17:36
Danielle, like to add anything to that, Congressman, I would
1:17:42
just add that rather than accepting self attestation, that
1:17:47
state should have to be required to actually verify people's
1:17:50
identities. And that here's the key part,
1:17:52
before they get enrolled. They shouldn't get enrolled and
1:17:56
then eventually come down there later on down the road.
1:17:59
It's amazing to me a doctor's appointment back in Knoxville
1:18:03
and the verification process is very extensive.
1:18:06
It's more so than the federal government requires for any of
1:18:10
this. What type of computer systems
1:18:12
for these agencies using and do they need updating?
1:18:18
They're using very dated technology, but they're also
1:18:22
burdened. I look at the USDA 6.2 million
1:18:28
words in a 10,000 page document that shows how to implement the
1:18:32
rules of the program. Nobody can figure that out.
1:18:35
So one of the things that I think has to happen is the
1:18:38
simplification of these processes and systems and then
1:18:41
just use the technology that we use every day in the private
1:18:45
sector. OK.
1:18:46
Thank you all so much for. Being here, gentleman's time has
1:18:49
expired. Thank you, Chair Lady.
1:18:52
I now recognize the gentlewoman from Texas, Miss Crockett, for 5
1:18:56
minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
1:18:57
And Mr. Talcove. I'm just going to go ahead and
1:18:59
pick up where you left off really quickly.
1:19:02
Just to be clear, the upgrades that you're talking about as it
1:19:06
relates to our data processes, these aren't things that would
1:19:10
be free, are they? They would costs some kind of
1:19:13
money. Not looking for a number but
1:19:15
they will cost correct. Some are free and some would
1:19:18
cost money. OK.
1:19:20
All right. So I just want to leave it there
1:19:21
because we've had a number of these hearings.
1:19:24
So I do want to be clear, before the Trump administration came
1:19:28
in, this committee did exist in the form of the oversight
1:19:32
committee. And our task is to root out.
1:19:36
Waste, fraud and abuse. In that vein, we had a number of
1:19:40
hearings at least last term. I can't speak for any other term
1:19:44
as I'm only in my sophomore term and we dealt with improper
1:19:47
payments and interestingly enough, our chairwoman, who was
1:19:51
so passionate about this today, she missed every single one of
1:19:54
those improper payment hearings. But just to be clear, I was
1:19:58
there. So I don't want anyone to
1:20:00
believe that Democrats just come to work and don't plan to do
1:20:04
work. In fact, I'm trying to figure
1:20:06
out exactly what it is that the Republicans believe our job is,
1:20:09
because right now they have relinquished their
1:20:13
constitutional duties over to an unelected bureaucrats.
1:20:19
Someone who no one went out to vote for and absolutely he is
1:20:24
occupying the Oval Office as we saw yesterday.
1:20:28
And that is a first for me to see someone occupying the Oval
1:20:32
Office who's never actually been elected to the Oval Office in
1:20:36
and actually answering more questions than the person that
1:20:38
allegedly got elected. But for whatever reason, this is
1:20:42
the first time we're having a Dodge subcommittee hearing and
1:20:44
that guys not here. Instead we have y'all.
1:20:46
So I do want to thank you for coming.
1:20:48
But I will say this, it's also interesting to me then in the
1:20:52
first few days of DOGE existing, we know that they are trying to
1:20:57
get rid of the Department of Education, USA Consumer
1:21:00
Financial Protection Bureau. They're laying off FAA workers.
1:21:04
They are going after the FDA, the CDC, the HHS, the FBI
1:21:08
agents, and they're talking about getting rid of FEMA.
1:21:10
And they brought y'all in. And I am going to say that I
1:21:14
actually was shocked that there was only one person that seemed
1:21:16
like he was an overt Trumper as you laid out your opening
1:21:20
remarks. Because because I anticipated
1:21:23
that at least one of y'all would say, yes, what Elon is doing is
1:21:27
exactly what we would prescribe. But instead, I will applaud you
1:21:32
because you actually were focused.
1:21:34
You talked about what the American people are looking for
1:21:38
us to do. We've actually consistently on
1:21:40
this side of the aisle, promoted this idea of making investments
1:21:44
into technology so that we can do things such as say, look at
1:21:48
the Department of Defense, the Department of Defense that takes
1:21:52
up approximately, oh, 50% of our discretionary income or our
1:21:57
discretionary spending, approximately 50% goes to
1:22:01
Department of Defense. Department of Defense has not
1:22:03
been able to pass an audit in the last 6 audits.
1:22:06
And we're not talking about pennies.
1:22:08
I understand that we want everything to be perfect.
1:22:11
And if we could get all waste, fraud and abuse out, that would
1:22:14
be fantastic. But let me talk about the big
1:22:16
numbers. The big numbers are on that
1:22:18
side. When we look at, say, our entire
1:22:21
workforce, our federal workforce, as we're trying to
1:22:24
somehow fire all of them, they don't even even make up a total
1:22:28
of 5%. It's even less than that when we
1:22:31
look at our budget. But let's talk about defense.
1:22:34
That just happens to be the same side of the Ledger that Mister
1:22:38
Musk gets the vast majority of his money from.
1:22:40
In fact, at the same time that they were unlawfully.
1:22:43
And we will stay in court because on this side, we believe
1:22:47
in law and order. We believe in, I mean, a number
1:22:50
of us are actually lawyers. But nevertheless, we understand
1:22:53
the Constitution. We believe in that as well.
1:22:56
And so there's things such as, you know, empowerment, right?
1:23:00
Because as Mr. Whitson said, he said we need to return the power
1:23:05
of the purse to Congress. It never left according to the
1:23:08
Constitution. That's where it's at now.
1:23:10
I know that people are confused right now because for whatever
1:23:13
reason, we had a guy that went in and you talked about people
1:23:16
invading our data. Listen, people said that they
1:23:18
were upset about TikTok, but I'm upset about the guy that runs
1:23:23
Twitter, who for sure it's doing nefarious things because I don't
1:23:27
understand. If you are trying to conduct
1:23:29
audits and figure out where the waste, fraud and abuse is, I
1:23:31
don't know why you would go to some tech guy.
1:23:35
In fact, it was only techies that were sitting there at
1:23:37
inauguration. We didn't have auditors.
1:23:39
I, I would welcome auditors to come in and do forensic audits.
1:23:43
In fact, he sat there in the Oval Office yesterday and he
1:23:47
admitted that he was lying and he was using his propaganda
1:23:50
machine to do it. When he said that we sent
1:23:53
millions of dollars to Gaza for condoms, that was a lie.
1:23:57
So let me tell you something. The general lady time has
1:23:59
expired. Time for the gentle lady's time
1:24:02
has expired. Reign in this rogue actor, no.
1:24:05
Gentle lady's time has expired. I now recognize the gentleman
1:24:08
from Missouri, Mr. Burleson. Thank you, Madam Chair, I just
1:24:14
want to speak frankly at first to the American people.
1:24:16
We are nearing $37 trillion in national debt.
1:24:21
What does that mean? That means that each and every
1:24:23
US taxpayer owes over $323,000. OK, what does that mean?
1:24:32
That means when when the EPIC, which is the Economic Policy
1:24:35
Innovation Center, says we have 18 trillion left.
1:24:39
That's it. 18 trillion left to take out, and we're spending $2
1:24:43
trillion in debt every year. Folks, we are at the precipice
1:24:49
of a debt like a, like a debt cycle.
1:24:53
We are literally at a, at a point in which the dollar will
1:24:56
be worth nothing. What does that mean?
1:24:58
And I mean it. I mean we know Social Security
1:25:02
goes bankrupt in eight years, right?
1:25:05
Medicare goes bankrupt in 10 years and then 15 years from now
1:25:11
the the dollar is completely devalued and worth nothing.
1:25:15
So what does that mean? That means your pension, the
1:25:18
money in your banks, you know, your savings.
1:25:22
Me is me is nothing. It's worthless.
1:25:25
So what are we doing? We're trying to save this
1:25:28
country. We're trying to save your
1:25:29
pensions. We're trying to save your bank
1:25:31
accounts. We're trying to save this
1:25:33
country for the next generation. And it would be nice if we had
1:25:36
help, but instead we have people that are fighting us on this.
1:25:40
And, you know, they, I think that it's, I would hate to be in
1:25:43
the Democratic Party right now because you're in a really bad
1:25:45
bind. You're having to defend all of
1:25:48
this crazy spending, all of this crazy waste.
1:25:51
So how do you do it? You do ad hominem attacks.
1:25:55
You attack the messenger. Oh, Elon Musk, right?
1:25:58
He's rich. He must be evil, right?
1:26:00
That's the, that's the attacks, really.
1:26:02
You can't do any better than that, right?
1:26:06
But let's talk on the policy. On the policy, Help us.
1:26:10
We're trying to save this country.
1:26:12
This is what an Elon Musk, who's making no money doing this, is
1:26:16
trying to save this country. Why?
1:26:17
Because he is invested in the United States of America more
1:26:20
than anybody, right? So I think that we should
1:26:23
embrace, in fact, not a single company governor of any state
1:26:29
would ever turn down Elon Musk and his team of DOGE from coming
1:26:33
in and providing free services to write the course and
1:26:37
financially in any state or organization.
1:26:39
It's ridiculous that we would demonize someone that loves this
1:26:43
country so much. Mr. Whitman, the formation of
1:26:46
agencies via the executive action is not new, right?
1:26:52
The the formation of DOGE is not new.
1:26:55
Can you, you know, are, are you familiar with any other previous
1:26:58
presidencies where they've formed organizations like DOGE
1:27:02
via executive action? Yeah.
1:27:04
So I so actually the agency that DOGE is occupying is one that
1:27:08
was created in a previous administration.
1:27:10
So it is something that happens routinely, but I don't know if
1:27:15
that answers your question. Yeah, there's been the Office of
1:27:18
Budget Management was created. Environmental Protection Agency
1:27:21
was created the US Digital Service, which is now DOGE was
1:27:25
created all by executive order, right And actually one other I'd
1:27:28
add is USAID was originally created through an executive
1:27:31
order by President Kennedy and then later formalized.
1:27:35
And then, Madam Chair, I have a video I would like to end with
1:27:40
that. Just let's review if we could
1:27:43
cue that remind. And I want to remind my
1:27:46
Democratic friends, at a point in which you once had the
1:27:50
majority of the American people on your side, this is this is
1:27:54
what your party believed in. This report tells us how to cut
1:28:01
waste, cut red tape, streamline the bureaucracy, change
1:28:06
procurement rules, change the personnel rules, and create a
1:28:09
government that works better and costs less.
1:28:13
I've read it and where it says the president should the
1:28:17
president will among the 800 recommendations, eliminating 12%
1:28:21
of the federal workforce, merging some government agencies
1:28:24
like the FBI, the DEA, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
1:28:28
Firearms, closing hundreds of government offices outside
1:28:31
Washington. From the day I took off, one of
1:28:33
the commitments that I made the American people was that we
1:28:37
would do a better job here in Washington in rooting out
1:28:41
wasteful spending. We thought that it was entirely
1:28:44
appropriate for our governments and our agencies to try to root
1:28:49
out waste large and small in a systematic way.
1:28:53
It means cutting some programs that I think are worthy but we
1:28:58
may not be able to afford. Right now.
1:29:00
A lot of the action is in Congress and legislative, but in
1:29:04
the meantime, we don't need to wait for Congress in order to do
1:29:08
something about wasteful spending that's out there.
1:29:11
We haven't seen as much action out of Congress as we'd like,
1:29:14
and that's why we launched on our own initiative, the campaign
1:29:18
Cut Waste, and we're going to keep on finding every possible
1:29:21
way that we can do that, even if Congress is not active.
1:29:25
There you go. I think it speaks for itself.
1:29:30
My time is expired. That the gentleman's time is
1:29:33
expired. Thank you.
1:29:34
I now yield to the gentlewoman from the District of Columbia,
1:29:37
Miss Norton, for 5 minutes. Thank you.
1:29:40
Our Republican colleagues and the Trump administration
1:29:43
continue to demonize of friends and neighbors who work for the
1:29:47
federal government and swear an oath to protect the Constitution
1:29:52
and serve the public. Thousands of civilian federal
1:29:56
employees have given their lives in the line of duty for their
1:30:01
country. The administration seems intent
1:30:04
on dismantling much of the federal government in violation
1:30:08
of the Constitution, statutes and regulations.
1:30:11
And our Republican colleagues are letting them do it.
1:30:15
They want to gut the nonpartisan civil service and to convert a
1:30:20
significant portion of the remaining civil service into
1:30:23
political appointees depriving. The federal government of
1:30:27
employees, expertise and experience will harm the
1:30:31
services that the government provides to all Americans.
1:30:36
Mr. Headler Garlet, the administration is attempting to
1:30:43
cause a mass exodus from our federal workforce.
1:30:47
Will this increase or decrease waste, fraud and abuse?
1:30:55
Thank you, Delegate Norton. I think it's pretty clear that
1:30:58
chaos is not the friend of efficiency.
1:31:01
If you undermine the very functionality of the government,
1:31:06
you're not going to make it more efficient, you're going to make
1:31:07
it worse, and it's going to cost even more money to recoup or to
1:31:11
fix things that go wrong in the interim.
1:31:13
So I, you know, again, I mentioned earlier that if you
1:31:15
care about wastewater and abuse, firing Inspector General doesn't
1:31:19
add up. I think if you care about
1:31:21
government being more efficient, intentionally creating chaos is
1:31:25
the opposite of that. Well, Mr. Headler Gauntlet, do
1:31:31
federal employees operate without oversight or rules and
1:31:35
regulations? No, absolutely not.
1:31:38
They are governed by a plenty of rules and regulations, and when
1:31:42
there are independent Inspector General at the agency they're
1:31:45
supposed to be at, they also have a cop on the beat making
1:31:47
sure that they do. So I want to highlight some
1:31:51
stories demonstrating exactly the kinds of federal workers the
1:31:56
administration is trying to force out.
1:32:01
How about Chris Mark at the Department of Labor, whose
1:32:06
pioneering work on mine safety has reduced mine safety minor
1:32:12
safety deaths from. Roof collapses to almost 0
1:32:18
today. Or Jared Koopman at the Internal
1:32:23
Revenue Service, who pioneered new methods for tracking
1:32:29
criminal cybersecurity currency transactions that led to the
1:32:35
rescue of 23 children from rape and assault, as well as a
1:32:39
seizure of hundreds of millions of trial abuse videos and 370
1:32:46
pedophile arrests. This were also prevented funding
1:32:52
from going to terrorist groups. Or Ron Lee Walters, who manages
1:32:57
the 155 national cemeteries around the country and tends to
1:33:03
the resting places of almost 4 million veterans.
1:33:07
These are just a few of the federal workers who serve
1:33:10
Americans every day. The workers are The workers are
1:33:16
wildland firefighters, border guards, doctors, nurses.
1:33:22
Food inspectors, air traffic controllers and law enforcement
1:33:28
that do their civic duty, often despite the fact.
1:33:32
That they could make such more in the private sector.
1:33:36
Thank you and I yield back. The gentlelady yields.
1:33:42
I now yield to the gentleman from Georgia, Mister Jack.
1:33:46
Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Madam
1:33:49
Chair, and I want to also thank you for convening this hearing.
1:33:52
I think it's incredibly important, and I want to thank
1:33:54
our witnesses for appearing before us today.
1:33:57
Like another member of this committee, I too was once an
1:33:59
employee of the Executive Office of the President.
1:34:02
I worked in President Trump's White House from the very first
1:34:04
to very last day of his first term, and I saw first hand how
1:34:08
entrenched and resistant the federal bureaucracy was to his
1:34:12
agenda. So it's no surprise that today a
1:34:15
few of my Democrat colleagues have continued that trend by
1:34:18
using their time to bash Elon Musk instead of discussing ways
1:34:22
to work together to advance a bipartisan cornerstone of
1:34:25
President Trump's agenda, the mission to eliminate.
1:34:28
Finally, eliminate waste, fraud and abuse.
1:34:31
And I just took a, a rudimentary count of the, the Dems testimony
1:34:34
or rather comments today. And I've got 27 mentions of Elon
1:34:39
Musk and three mentions of waste.
1:34:41
And I don't know if that's in fact the right count, encourage
1:34:45
anybody to Fact Check me. But I think it illuminates and
1:34:48
illustrates one of the problems that we're facing, which is a
1:34:52
lack of bipartisan effort to address these these critical
1:34:55
things that, you know, waste, fraud and abuse is something
1:34:58
that should be bipartisan. The chair noted that in her
1:35:00
opening remarks. Now, Madam Chair, you know how
1:35:03
much I enjoy studying public opinion.
1:35:05
So with your approval, I'd like to enter into the record the CBS
1:35:08
News poll from this past weekend conducted February 5th to 7th,
1:35:11
2025. And I'd also like to illuminate
1:35:14
2 findings. 1st 70% of Americans, Democrats and
1:35:19
Republicans included, believe President Trump is already doing
1:35:22
the job that he was elected to, which is interesting because I
1:35:26
have an article here from CNN from September 2024 that notes
1:35:31
Trump says Elon Musk has agreed to lead proposed government
1:35:34
efficiency Commission as ex president unveils new economic
1:35:37
plans. So he is doing exactly what he
1:35:40
said he would do by empowering his administration to root out
1:35:44
waste, fraud and abuse. And that's exactly what we're
1:35:46
trying to do here today. I'd also like to know one
1:35:49
interesting statistic from that 62% of Americans wants Democrats
1:35:54
in Congress to work with us to advance the priorities the
1:35:56
President Trump was elected to to govern on.
1:35:59
So I think those are two stats that I hope everyone pays
1:36:01
attention to. But to ask questions of our
1:36:04
witnesses, I'd first like to start with Mr. Talco.
1:36:06
You know, one of the things that I found very interesting from
1:36:10
your opening testimony is you, you talked and, and I think you
1:36:12
engaged with Mr. Burchett on the 1974 Privacy Act.
1:36:17
And I had some interesting folks visit my office yesterday who
1:36:19
noted that 1/3 of all prior authorizations are still done
1:36:23
manually by phone, fax or direct post mail.
1:36:27
First off, would love your comments on that.
1:36:29
And I'd also like for you to expound upon some of the
1:36:31
solutions that we can deliver this Congress and modernizing
1:36:34
that 1974 Privacy Act. Yeah, these aren't people
1:36:37
problems, these are technology problems.
1:36:40
You can't process the number of individuals that are accessing
1:36:45
our systems person by person. It just takes too much time.
1:36:49
So by updating the 1974 Privacy Act and allowing for digital
1:36:54
matching, you would have very quickly realized that a large
1:36:59
portion of the PPP loan funds were going to the wrong person.
1:37:03
You would have been quickly able to match and I think the number
1:37:06
was 20% were on the do not pay list.
1:37:09
You can't expect people to do what a machine and especially AI
1:37:14
can do today. Fair enough.
1:37:17
Thank you very much for that. And I, if I can also ask Mr.
1:37:20
Whitson, we, I think we share a common interest, which is to to
1:37:25
move departments and agencies outside of Washington, DC.
1:37:28
It's something that I campaigned on, something that I helped
1:37:30
President Trump effectuate in his first administration.
1:37:33
And I have to imagine that if we have departments and agencies
1:37:36
outside of DC, if we've got, you know, a workforce is more
1:37:40
reflective of the balance that America is, we at the same time,
1:37:43
too, could potentially root out some of this waste, fraud and
1:37:45
abuse by enabling other Americans, other citizens of our
1:37:49
country to help advance some of these issues.
1:37:50
Would love your your commentary on that before my time expires.
1:37:54
No, I think you're exactly right, Congressman Jack.
1:37:56
And so I think a, you'd save a lot of taxpayer money.
1:37:59
So building the headquarters in downtown DC versus Huntsville,
1:38:02
AL, you're going to be able to save a lot of money #2 you're
1:38:06
actually to make life better for the employees as well.
1:38:08
So that's a point that's also missed a lot.
1:38:10
But commuting in the DC versus being able to go somewhere else
1:38:13
where it's a better cost of living and things like that
1:38:15
might be better for the folks. And then lastly, these areas
1:38:19
where you set up a headquarters are going to be populated by
1:38:22
people that live in the area to fill the rank and file of staff
1:38:25
positions. And so if you plant these
1:38:27
federal agency headquarters in the heart of any area that's
1:38:30
overwhelmingly one party or the other, then you're going to
1:38:33
naturally get that sway versus something that's more
1:38:35
representative of the people as a whole.
1:38:38
Well, thank you very much for witnesses.
1:38:39
Mindful of my time, I want to finish before my time expires.
1:38:42
I yield back to our Chairwoman, Marja Taylor Green.
1:38:46
Thank you. And Chairwoman, I, I would like
1:38:48
to enter, ask for unanimous consent to enter something into
1:38:50
the record. So what is it?
1:38:53
It is a report from the Congressional Research Service,
1:38:56
nonpartisan CRS, that lays out the rules and the law for firing
1:39:00
inspectors general, which of course look into waste, fraud
1:39:03
and abuse. Without objection.
1:39:05
Thank you. And that rule requires for the
1:39:07
law to be followed for Congress to be notified with 30 days and
1:39:11
a reason for firing inspectors general to give Congress a
1:39:14
chance to overrule that. And that's the the law.
1:39:16
So thank you for entering that into the record.
1:39:18
Madam. Chair, without objection, the
1:39:20
materials Mister Jack cited are also submitted For the record.
1:39:24
I now Yeah. And while we're on it, I'd also
1:39:29
like to ask for unanimous consent to submit for the
1:39:31
record, 2 items. 1 is a statement from the AFLCIO
1:39:35
department of people who work for a living with views on
1:39:38
working people to make the government work.
1:39:40
And the second is a statement for those from the Center for
1:39:43
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington on ways to combat
1:39:47
waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government.
1:39:49
Without objection, so ordered, I now recognize the gentlelady
1:39:52
from New Mexico and Ranking Member Miss Stansbury for 5
1:39:56
minutes. All right.
1:39:57
Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you once
1:40:00
again to all of our witnesses for being here to testify.
1:40:03
Thank you to my colleagues. We are going to have so much fun
1:40:07
in this committee, this Congress.
1:40:09
I actually appreciate the video that was shown just a few
1:40:12
moments ago, because when I worked at the Office of
1:40:15
Management and Budget, I actually worked on the waste EO
1:40:19
that was referenced that President Obama signed.
1:40:22
But there is one fundamental difference between the
1:40:24
presidents and vice presidents that were.
1:40:26
Shown on that video and what's happening today and that is that
1:40:31
they followed the law so my colleagues across the aisle who
1:40:36
are asking us to get out of the way and stop trying to block
1:40:39
things in the courts. Let me tell you we do not work
1:40:42
for an unelected billionaire like apparently this guy does.
1:40:48
We work for the American people. And so if an unelected, unvetted
1:40:53
individual private citizen is hacking our government systems,
1:40:56
breaking the law, firing federal employees, dismantling
1:41:00
statutorily created agencies, withholding funds, we are going
1:41:05
to fight you in the courts. And I'm actually really sad that
1:41:09
my dear friend Mr. Burchett left because I want to talk about
1:41:12
that gravy train on biscuit Wheels that he just talked
1:41:15
about. Because that gravy train is not
1:41:18
the federal workforce. It's the billionaires that are
1:41:21
trying to hack that system right now.
1:41:24
And which unfortunately, my colleagues right now are working
1:41:27
on a reconciliation deal to cut Medicaid, to cut Medicare, and
1:41:31
use that money to give to tax breaks to their billionaire
1:41:35
buddies. That is the gravy train that is
1:41:38
actually going on here. But because this is the
1:41:41
Oversight Committee, let's do a little bit of oversight.
1:41:44
For the last several weeks, I've been talking to Treasury and OMB
1:41:47
officials to try to get to the bottom of why Elon Musk and his
1:41:52
team are trying to hack the Treasury payment system.
1:41:55
Because this is a completely non partisan system that literally
1:41:59
just pays the bills of the federal government.
1:42:02
So why are they so eager to hack this system?
1:42:06
And I have to say that over the last several weeks, we have
1:42:09
literally received thousands of calls in every single
1:42:13
congressional office. In fact, we know that our
1:42:16
friends across the aisle are also receiving these calls
1:42:19
because this system pays the bills of the US government.
1:42:23
It pays our soldiers. It pays for the work that we do
1:42:28
overseas. It pays your Social Security
1:42:31
benefits. It pays your tax refunds.
1:42:34
So why is Elon Musk and his hackers trying to access that
1:42:39
system? And why did a senior civil
1:42:42
servant who had overseen the system for over 30 years get
1:42:47
asked to stand down after a 25 year old intern working for Elon
1:42:52
Musk tried to get access to the code for that system?
1:42:57
Now, thankfully, they were shut down in the court system.
1:43:01
But Musk has installed with the president's blessing, one of his
1:43:04
silicone buddies. Silicone Valley buddies who I
1:43:07
want to point out in which the media has not paid a lot of
1:43:10
attention to, is the CEO of a private IT company, including
1:43:15
Citrix that has millions of dollars in IT contracts with the
1:43:20
federal government. And not only is he still
1:43:23
operating as the installed doge person at Treasury, he is
1:43:27
actively still the CEO of this private company.
1:43:31
How is that even legal? Is it legal?
1:43:35
I don't think it's legal because the federal court is trying to
1:43:39
shut this down. We also know that that 25 year
1:43:43
old software engineer in violation of the court order was
1:43:46
actually given access to modify the code.
1:43:50
So what is going on here and why is this such a threat to the
1:43:54
American people? Why are thousands of people
1:43:56
calling us? It's because of the size and the
1:43:58
significance of these payments. Because it is an invasion of the
1:44:01
privacy and security of the American people.
1:44:04
Because it could threaten our ability as a country and if
1:44:08
there was a default in the debt ceiling and because it contains
1:44:13
highly classified information that our foreign adversaries are
1:44:17
trying to cyber attack us regularly for.
1:44:20
So why is a private citizen being given access to this
1:44:24
system? We know they're trying to shut
1:44:26
down payments. They're trying to shut down
1:44:28
agencies. What's next?
1:44:29
Are they going to shut down your Social Security payments?
1:44:32
We don't know because they have no oversight.
1:44:37
And Elon Musk will not come in front of this committee.
1:44:41
And in fact, the Treasury folks are saying this is the biggest
1:44:44
insider threat they've ever seen in the history of the agency.
1:44:47
So we are sounding the alarm. And no matter how many executive
1:44:51
orders that Donald Trump signs or how many tweets the VP sends,
1:44:55
you cannot rewrite the Constitution, and we are going
1:44:59
to hold you to account. I yield back.
1:45:02
The general lady yields and I now recognize.
1:45:05
Oh yes. I have 3 documents I want to
1:45:07
submit for the record. The first, the first document is
1:45:10
the Constitution Article 2. I would like to submit that for
1:45:13
the record. That's clearly spells out the
1:45:15
President's authority. I would also like to submit for
1:45:18
the record US five US Code 3161 Employment Compensation of
1:45:23
employees, which clearly spells out his authority to create
1:45:26
DOGE. And then I want to submit for
1:45:28
the record the executive order that Trump issued on January
1:45:31
20th of 2025 establishing DOGE officially.
1:45:36
Without objection sorted, I now recognize the gentleman from
1:45:39
Texas, Mr. Gill for 5 minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and
1:45:45
thank you for hosting this committee.
1:45:47
If we've learned anything so far, it's that Republicans want
1:45:50
to cut waste, fraud and abuse from our federal government and
1:45:54
save taxpayer dollars, and Democrats want to grandstand and
1:45:58
play politics. We can see right now even of the
1:46:03
six Democrats on this committee, only one can even be bothered to
1:46:07
stay for the duration of this hearing.
1:46:11
All we've heard about for most of this hearing from the other
1:46:14
side of the aisle is Elon Musk. Elon Musk, Elon Musk, unelected
1:46:19
bureaucrat. I'd like to ask if if Democrats
1:46:22
really care about unelected bureaucrats making decisions
1:46:25
over our lives. Where were they whenever their
1:46:28
God Anthony Fauci was forcing vaccine and mask mandates on the
1:46:33
American people for four years during the Excuse me for during
1:46:37
the COVID crisis? Where were they whenever
1:46:41
unelected Alejandro Mayorkas was facilitating the invasion of our
1:46:46
country by illegal aliens who were murdering and raping and
1:46:50
pillaging our people? Where were they whenever the
1:46:54
Secretary of Education, unelected Cardona, targeted
1:46:58
States and schools and people who were disagreed with his view
1:47:03
of the radical left's transgender ideology?
1:47:06
Where were they whenever Gary Gensler, former chairman of the
1:47:10
SEC, also unelected, was lawlessly thwarting the
1:47:15
development of financial markets, particularly in the
1:47:18
crypto space, by lawlessly pursuing regulation via
1:47:22
enforcement? They were nowhere to be seen.
1:47:24
Because they don't care. Because all of those things
1:47:27
benefited their side of the aisle at the expensive hours.
1:47:32
And perhaps that's also why they don't seem to be very interested
1:47:36
in rooting out improper payments from our federal government.
1:47:41
If you wonder why so many people are cynical about American
1:47:46
politics, this is it. This is exactly why.
1:47:50
The reality is that Elon Musk serves as an employee of the
1:47:53
president, and we were given a massive mandate to carry out
1:48:01
what he's been doing. His job is to carry out the will
1:48:05
of the American people as expressed through the executive.
1:48:09
That's exactly how the Constitution is supposed to
1:48:12
work. The Constitution did not create
1:48:15
an unelected, unaccountable 4th branch of government in the
1:48:19
administrative state. The American people know this.
1:48:24
My colleague Brian Jack discussed some of the opinion
1:48:27
polls recently. We are doing and President Trump
1:48:30
is doing exactly what he is elect, he was elected to do.
1:48:34
And that's why he's pulling at a 53% approval rating, higher than
1:48:38
he was at any point during his first administration.
1:48:42
Even Elon Musk and his Doge efforts now are pulling at a 49%
1:48:48
approval rating, which just to point out is 16 points higher
1:48:52
than President Biden was pulling out whenever he finished his his
1:48:56
term in office. The Democrat Party has for
1:49:00
decades systematically grown and weaponized the administrative
1:49:05
state against the American people, and the American people
1:49:09
have had enough of it. Right now we're talking about
1:49:12
$2.7 trillion in improper payments since 2003.
1:49:19
We are uncovering what could be the biggest money laundering
1:49:24
scandal in American history. And the other side of the aisle
1:49:28
could care less. They have no concern about where
1:49:31
this money went to, what entities that went to what
1:49:34
governments, to what people or groups, Nothing.
1:49:38
All they're all they want to talk about is Elon Musk
1:49:41
incessantly. So it does make me wonder if
1:49:45
they don't care about where it's going.
1:49:46
Do they have an idea? Because what we've uncovered so
1:49:49
far is that so much of the waste, fraud and abuse of our
1:49:53
federal government is actually funding their side of the aisle.
1:49:57
It's funding media outlets that are running cover for Democrats
1:50:01
routinely, the NNPRPBS, the BBC, Politico.
1:50:07
It's going to find left wing Ng OS that are facilitating the
1:50:12
invasion of our country. It's going to fund left wing
1:50:15
transgender activism and sex changes all over the globe.
1:50:20
This is Money that's being used, taken from the American people
1:50:23
and used A. I'm very excited to be on this
1:50:35
committee. I'm excited to expose what's
1:50:38
been going on. Thank you, Madam Chair, and with
1:50:40
that I yield. The gentleman yields.
1:50:43
In closing, I want to thank our witnesses again for their
1:50:47
testimonies today. I now yield to the Ranking
1:50:50
Member for closing remarks. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
1:50:55
Well, I never thought so many conspiracy theories and wild
1:50:59
accusations could be wound into one five minute speech.
1:51:02
But I appreciate my friends across the aisle.
1:51:06
First of all, let's talk about this massive mandate that
1:51:09
supposedly brought Donald Trump into office.
1:51:13
Donald Trump did not run on putting an unelected billionaire
1:51:17
in charge of dismantling the federal government.
1:51:20
He ran on lowering prices for Americans.
1:51:24
And I think it's interesting that while we're sitting here
1:51:28
this morning, the top of The New York Times is reporting that
1:51:33
inflation has risen unexpectedly as food and energy prices have
1:51:39
soared. What's going on, guys?
1:51:42
I thought you were going to tackle inflation and food and
1:51:45
energy prices. Isn't that what the executive
1:51:49
orders were supposed to do? Oh, wait.
1:51:51
Or is dismantling diversity, equity and inclusion and our
1:51:55
federal agencies and putting an ideological agenda and trying to
1:51:59
fire the federal workforce your actual agenda?
1:52:01
Have you been too busy trying to actually address the fiscal
1:52:05
health of this country? Because the numbers are telling
1:52:08
us that you have. So let's be real about what's
1:52:12
going on here. I also want to point out that
1:52:14
literally while we've been sitting here for the last almost
1:52:18
two hours getting lectured on fiscal responsibility, literally
1:52:23
the Republicans just released their plan to raise the debt
1:52:27
limit while we were sitting here, and they want to raise it
1:52:30
by $4 trillion. OK, guys, Like, literally, I'm
1:52:40
just like, without words. Inflation is going up.
1:52:43
You want to raise the debt ceiling by $4 trillion?
1:52:47
You want to gut Medicare? You want to gut Medicaid?
1:52:50
You're talking about going after Social Security after promising
1:52:54
that you wouldn't. I mean really, what the heck is
1:52:57
going on here? We're not trying to take down
1:53:00
Elon Musk as a businessman. This dude is literally breaking
1:53:04
the law inside of the federal government.
1:53:07
And for a party that is supposed to be the party of law and order
1:53:11
in quotes, I really do not see you holding him accountable and
1:53:15
doing your most basic constitutional responsibility in
1:53:20
the separation of powers. So I want to end and where I
1:53:24
started, we are the Oversight Committee.
1:53:27
We are the People's House for the United States of America.
1:53:31
We represent the American people.
1:53:34
And so, Mr. Elon Musk, if you would like to appear in front of
1:53:38
the Oversight Committee, you have been duly invited.
1:53:42
Please come tell us what you're doing.
1:53:44
Come testify in front of the American people, and please come
1:53:48
hold yourself to account. With that I yield back.
1:53:53
The gentlelady yields. I now recognize myself for
1:53:56
closing remarks. President Trump was elected with
1:53:59
a mandate to rein in unaccountable bureaucracy in
1:54:02
Washington and to wage war on waste.
1:54:06
I know that because I campaigned alongside him, and so did my
1:54:09
colleagues. This hearing was the first
1:54:12
battle of that war. And in the coming days, the
1:54:14
subcommittee will release a report with legislative
1:54:18
solutions to the problems we have identified here today.
1:54:23
We aren't going to wait all the way until the end of this
1:54:25
Congress. We're going to get to work
1:54:27
immediately. The bureaucrats who have run
1:54:30
Washington for decades are beyond the point of forgiveness.
1:54:34
Their sheer incompetence and pure spite for the hard working
1:54:37
American people have resulted in total failure.
1:54:41
The federal government has made over $2.7 trillion in improper
1:54:47
payments since 2003, including 236 billion in 2023 alone.
1:54:55
Those are trillions of dollars that honest Americans have paid
1:54:58
in taxes at gunpoint over the years.
1:55:02
As we approach April 15th, Americans are once again
1:55:06
preparing to do their taxes and fork over their unfair share of
1:55:11
money it takes to run this country.
1:55:14
And I have to tell you, the American people have not been
1:55:17
getting their money's worth for a long time.
1:55:20
Most improper payments in recent years were issued through five
1:55:24
programs. Medicare medic paid the Earned
1:55:28
Income Tax Credit, Pandemic Unemployment Insurance and the
1:55:32
Paycheck Protection Program. But a total of 16 federal
1:55:36
programs had improper payment rates of 10% or more in 2023.
1:55:42
That includes SNAP, the federal food stamp program, which paid
1:55:46
out 10 billion taxpayer dollars improperly.
1:55:50
To get their arms around this problem, Elon Musk and the DOGE
1:55:54
team went straight to the source.
1:55:58
They went to the Treasury Department's Fiscal Service,
1:56:01
which makes about 90% of the trillions in federal payments
1:56:05
issued annually. The audit of these payment
1:56:08
systems was long overdue. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant
1:56:13
gave DOGE employees working for the government read only access
1:56:18
to these systems so they could conduct that initial audit.
1:56:22
That audit is already paying dividends.
1:56:25
Must learn that the databases federal agencies are supposed to
1:56:29
check to prevent payments to fraudsters, crime rings and dead
1:56:34
people are not being kept up to date.
1:56:37
Going forward, we are going to get more mileage out of these do
1:56:40
not pay databases. That means fewer improper
1:56:43
payments and less fraud and waste of taxpayer dollars.
1:56:48
Despite this fraud that's already been revealed, a federal
1:56:52
judge in New York issued a ruling last Friday that ran
1:56:55
totally contrary to the will of the people.
1:56:59
The judge blocked not only Doge, but the Treasury Secretary
1:57:02
himself from accessing his own agency's payment systems.
1:57:07
That's absurd. Only career Treasury Department
1:57:11
unelected bureaucrats can access the system, the judge ruled.
1:57:16
This turns the Constitution on its head.
1:57:19
We will hold this judge and others who try to stop the will
1:57:22
of the people and their elected leaders accountable.
1:57:26
As is written in The Federalist Papers, the judiciary has no
1:57:30
influence over either the sword or the purse, no direction
1:57:35
either of the strength or the wealth of the society.
1:57:39
It may truly be said to have neither force nor will, but
1:57:44
merely judgment, and must ultimately depend upon the aid
1:57:48
of the executive arm for the efficacy of its judgments.
1:57:53
But the whole DC swamp is freaking out that the unelected
1:57:57
officials from Doge were allowed access to these systems.
1:58:01
That makes no sense. Federal judges were not elected.
1:58:04
The Treasury bureaucrats were not elected, and they have
1:58:08
failed to fix the problem that is enabling American taxpayers
1:58:12
to be robbed. So why not bring in skilled
1:58:15
outside experts like private companies and private citizens
1:58:19
who are excess, who are successful in the real world to
1:58:23
do everyday work that we need to get done here like audits?
1:58:28
Of course, federal payment systems are only one link in the
1:58:31
improper payment chain. We need to look at other links
1:58:35
in the chain. We need better front end
1:58:37
identify verification to screen out fraudsters.
1:58:41
And we need to close eligibility loopholes.
1:58:43
That means not letting applicants self attest to their
1:58:47
own eligibility. And it means ending categorical
1:58:50
eligibility, which lets someone who fraudulently qualifies for
1:58:54
one federal benefit automatically get other federal.
1:58:59
Finally, we need to do better court.
1:59:01
We need to better coordinate fraud prevention efforts between
1:59:05
federal governments and the states.
1:59:08
These are all issues that we will be taking a hard look at in
1:59:11
this committee and coming up with solutions to, including
1:59:15
legislation and referrals to committees of jurisdiction that
1:59:20
will deliver for the American people.
1:59:24
With that and without objection, all Members have 5 legislative
1:59:28
days within which to submit materials and additional written
1:59:31
questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to the
1:59:35
witnesses if there is no further business.
1:59:37
Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.
1:59:46
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