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Session Zero University - Breaking Free of DnD with Hartly Llosa · Session Zero Heroes | TTRPG Actual Play Adventures & Improv Storytelling

0:15
>> Skylar: Welcome, students, to Session Zero
0:18
University. My name is Professor Rainier, one of the
0:21
many teachers here at the university. But for right
0:24
now, I am your orientation
0:27
representative. Here at scu, you will
0:30
find a variety of professors well versed in the realms
0:33
of tabletop role playing games, offering you
0:35
their insight on every facet of
0:38
TTRPG's. Perhaps you'd like to
0:41
take a homebrwing class with our potions
0:43
professor or join in on a role playinging
0:46
class put on by our theater department. Be
0:49
sure to take all your required general education
0:52
classes like Character Creation 101,
0:55
Intro to World Building, and NPC
0:58
Voices for Beginners to help round out
1:00
your education. There are also plenty of electives
1:03
and intramural opportunities to add some fun and
1:06
diversity into your everyday schedule. So get
1:09
out there and learn. Whether you'hoping to
1:12
graduate with a degree in DMing or playing, it
1:15
matters not. There is always room to
1:17
grow at Session Zero University.
1:31
>> Hartley: Hello, students. Please sit down at
1:33
your tables and.
1:35
>> Skylar: U, take out your books.
1:37
>> Hartley: And u,
1:37
>> Skylar: Oh, you only have D and D books, is
1:40
that right?
1:41
>> Hartley: Well, yeah, that needs to stop.
1:44
>> Skylar: There are many tabletop role playing games other
1:47
than D and D. That's what today's class is
1:50
about.
1:51
>> Hartley: I'm going to be teaching you all.
1:52
>> Skylar: How to break out of the D.
1:54
>> Hartley: And D only mindset.
1:55
>> Skylar: Hartley Yosa, welcome so much,
1:58
to the Session Zero University, our special
2:01
new series that we've kind of started to
2:03
discuss. Kind of a bit more expanded
2:06
world of TTRPGs, and sort of
2:09
learning and finding new ways to grow as
2:12
game masters, as players, whatever
2:15
the case, today, again, thank you so much for being on the show
2:18
to talk to us about getting free of that D
2:21
and D only mindset and also
2:24
the Nightbringer RPG that you're working on, which we'll be
2:27
talking about here at the end. But before we get to that, let's talk about
2:30
getting free of that D and D mindset. So
2:32
obviously we kind of understand that
2:35
D and D is kind of the big dominating
2:38
RPG of, our time. I mean, ever since it came out, kind
2:41
of the OG ttrpg, in
2:43
general, stemming all the way back to when it kind of came out in the
2:46
70s and got popular in the 80s. So we've definitely seen
2:49
a big resurgence of it lately, which on one
2:52
hand is nice, in the sense that we get to see a lot
2:55
more people getting introduced to TTRPGs. But what
2:58
would you say are maybe some of the things that might have gotten it
3:01
re sparked that popularity of, Dungeons and
3:03
Dragons.
3:04
>> Hartley: yeah, well, first off, I'm glad to be here.
3:06
>> Skylar: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I should have paused to let you.
3:09
>> Hartley: Yeah. tabletop role playing games are really
3:11
interesting because they
3:14
combine theatrical improv
3:17
and stuff like that with math
3:20
and tactics and statistics and lots
3:23
of stuff like that. And I mean, that varies across tabletop role playing
3:26
games. You're going to find some that have no math at
3:29
all, or some that have
3:32
no improv at all. But
3:35
with D and D on the rise more recently.
3:38
Well, I mean, a lot of it is partially like
3:41
Stranger Things and stuff like that and
3:44
just shows that you used it. Although
3:47
I actually have never watched Critical Role
3:50
at all, but so much that
3:53
it is one of the main proprietors
3:55
of getting new people into it and stuff like that.
3:59
>> Skylar: Very true. Yeah, absolutely.
4:01
>> Hartley: I think it's also partially
4:03
that the WOTC has been trying
4:06
to push D and to newer
4:09
people, which can be a
4:12
good and bad thing. Which I think, looking at
4:15
the questions we'll probably get more into later. I think
4:18
it's just a lot of it is word of mouth, because
4:21
if one person gets it and then they get some
4:24
friends in on it, I think a lot of it is word of mouth. And
4:27
probably also the fact that
4:30
people that used to play it
4:32
are. Some of them are becoming teachers and
4:35
then they open up a lot of
4:38
stuff which then gets other people into it.
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Right. Then go and word of Math
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again.
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>> Skylar: absolutely. I've definitely heard of plenty of like,
4:47
school, like, what's the word? Like clubs and stuff
4:50
like that that have started implementing like a D and D program that some M
4:53
teacher usually is in charge of or something like that. So, yeah,
4:56
definitely kind of seeing that as
4:59
a way that D and D kind of gets introduced into society.
5:02
>> Hartley: Because a lot of times
5:04
when you, like during the beginning
5:07
of Dungeonson and Dragons, it was mostly teenagers and stuff that were
5:10
playing it a lot, and then
5:13
it kind of disappeared for a while because they were
5:16
probably all a lot more busy
5:20
and like, no longer had the time for
5:23
it. And now I think
5:26
part of their resurgence has been people
5:29
remembering, oh, hey, that game was fun, why don't I play
5:32
it?
5:32
>> Skylar: Right? And seeing it in the media, like you
5:35
mentioned before, like seeing it in Stranger Things and being like, oh, man, I
5:38
want to get back to that again, I want to play that again. We should do that.
5:41
>> Hartley: Yeah.
5:41
>> Skylar: So obviously we. We see that D and D
5:44
has kind of become one of the. The most popular
5:46
TTRPGs, you know, in existence. But with that being Said, you
5:49
know, we kind of want to. I mean, there's. There's so
5:52
many TTRPGs out there. why, I mean, why
5:55
would you say. Or what would your argument be for kind
5:58
of why we should move kind of towards
6:01
other RPGs and maybe step a little bit away from D and D
6:04
and the excessive focus on D.
6:05
>> Hartley: And D. So the thing with that is
6:08
that people a lot of the times say
6:11
that I like D and D, I know how to
6:14
play D and D. Why don't I just
6:17
homebrew D and D for my means instead of learning a whole
6:20
new system.
6:21
>> Skylar: Right.
6:22
>> Hartley: Which in some cases
6:24
it's good. But I think it's
6:27
interesting to be able to see how
6:29
other systems tackle things. Right.
6:32
>> Skylar: Right.
6:32
>> Hartley: Like there are some really interesting mechanics
6:35
that aren't D and D like at all. Like
6:38
homebrewing them into D and D just really wouldn't
6:41
or work.
6:42
>> Skylar: Right.
6:43
>> Hartley: But these mechanics are interesting.
6:45
>> Skylar: Yeah.
6:46
>> Hartley: And like are fun to
6:49
play with and bring up good situations at the table
6:52
and stuff.
6:52
>> Hartley: And there are a lot of things that just can't be home
6:55
bred well into D and without making it
6:58
like a slog vest.
6:59
>> Skylar: Yes.
7:01
>> Hartley: Because with Dungeons and Dragons
7:04
it was originally meant to be strictly one
7:07
setting. Right. With the Forgotten Realms.
7:10
But then WAOTC has
7:12
been expanding it so that you can
7:15
play in a lot more things. And to do that they have
7:18
to spread the rules a little bit thin. Right. which
7:22
means that it's not as specific on
7:25
some things. Like if you want to run a heist game
7:28
in Dungeons and Dragons, it is doable.
7:30
>> Skylar: Ye.
7:30
>> Hartley: Right. I've done it before and it can be really fun.
7:33
>> Skylar: Yeah.
7:34
>> Hartley: You can run a heist and
7:36
like using the rule set.
7:38
>> Hartley: When you're sneaking around the corner,
7:41
everybody's rolling stealth and that's all you're doing.
7:44
>> Skylar: Yep.
7:44
>> Hartley: There's no other way to sneak. It is just the
7:47
stealth score. Because to spread
7:50
itself so thin so they
7:53
can cover everything, it has to be
7:55
mediocreate everything.
7:56
>> Skylar: Right.
7:57
>> Hartley: Then in opposition, if you were to run
8:01
a heist game in like Blades in the Dark.
8:04
Right.
8:04
>> Skylar: M.
8:04
>> Hartley: It gives you a completely different feel.
8:08
And the system is structured so that
8:11
it feels like a height.
8:13
>> Skylar: Right.
8:13
>> Hartley: Right. So it has things like
8:16
flashbacks.
8:17
>> Hartley: And like changing plans on
8:20
your feet. And it
8:22
has like, it's sometimes easier to get
8:25
immobilized and stuff like that so that it
8:28
gives you more of that feel like, oh, no, Billy's down.
8:31
What are we going to do in the plan without Him.
8:33
>> Skylar: Right.
8:34
>> Hartley: Not necessarily dead but. And it has mechanics
8:37
for the police and like stuff like that and people
8:40
trying to stop you and although you
8:42
can certainly have
8:45
pre planned police and
8:48
complications and stuff in D and D, it's
8:51
just nowhere near that level
8:55
of like mechanically built
8:57
in that like you
9:00
don't know what's going to happen when you enter into this heist.
9:03
>> Skylar: Right.
9:04
>> Hartley: And the mechanics, every single thing you do
9:07
is changing a bunch of other stuff.
9:09
>> Skylar: Yeah.
9:10
>> Hartley: But then if you tryied to run Blades in the Dark
9:13
and you try to run like a high fantasy
9:15
dungeon crawl, I mean you could
9:18
do it but it just wouldn't be as
9:22
effective.
9:22
>> Skylar: Yeah.
9:23
>> Hartley: So a lot of games
9:26
like that are very narrowed in.
9:29
>> Hartley: Which can lead to amazing games and
9:32
stuff. Whereas DND D is very
9:34
broad so they. It can cover a lot of things.
9:37
>> Skylar: Yes.
9:37
>> Hartley: Which sometimes, sometimes that's what you want. Sometimes you
9:40
want to do a little bit of everything and that There are also
9:43
TTRPGs that are similar to that
9:46
which then at that point it's just
9:48
your preference of mechanics.
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>> Skylar: Right, right. I think that's a good way to put it too. Is
9:53
that like. Yes. Anything could be done in
9:56
a singular system to some extent. It's just
9:59
not going to be as fun, it's not going to be as smooth and it's
10:02
not going to be as immersive as you know, we
10:05
would want as people that are trying to create these collaborative
10:08
stories with the other player, or with the players and so on and so
10:10
forth. We want that system that actually
10:13
fits the narrative and fits the story that's that you're
10:16
trying to tell. And to do that you're going to need those
10:19
mechanics. We saw that a lot at session zero Heroes and we did our
10:21
Benders and Brew series which was in av the Last Airbender
10:24
or sorry Avatar Legends which is set in AVR the Last
10:27
Airbender. And there are some really
10:30
interesting pieces or mechanics inside of
10:32
Avatar Legends that really create that sort of
10:35
emotional focus on things, the
10:38
inner turmoil of your character.
10:40
>> Hartley: That system is very narrative
10:43
based. It's been a while since I
10:45
haven't actually played but I've listened to ah from a few
10:48
different places where it's very heavily
10:51
narratively based like healing
10:53
requires talking and bonding with the rest of your
10:56
party members and a lot of
10:59
your skills can be used inside and outside
11:02
of combat and stuff like that.
11:04
>> Skylar: Yeah, it's less like numbers focused, it's a
11:06
little bit more narrative as you mentioned before. So.
11:09
>> Hartley: Yeah. And like that kind of Game where
11:12
it is very narrative focused and you start out with a lot
11:15
of secrets.
11:16
>> Skylar: Right.
11:17
>> Hartley: And slowly revealing that over time. I feel like that would be
11:20
a great game to play with a group of strangers at
11:23
some sort of club.
11:24
>> Skylar: Oh yes. New play like new people that you
11:27
aren't familiar with.
11:28
>> Hartley: Yeah. So like some games
11:31
require lots of teamwork and
11:33
stuff like that. So I really feel like there are different
11:36
games for different situations.
11:38
>> Skylar: I never really thought about it that way before, but that is a really good point.
11:41
Like knowing who you're going to be playing
11:44
with is like D and D, I would say is
11:47
very pretty collaborative. I mean I guess you can really pick it up with
11:49
anybody, anywhere, anytime. But I think there's enough
11:52
in it that's very focused on
11:56
teamwork and having a party that's
11:58
cohesive. But yeah, that's a really good point. Like Avatar
12:01
Legends could be a really good game to introduce to a group
12:04
that doesn't know each other and therefore you don't
12:07
know their tendencies and then
12:10
their's secrets that you're eventually going to lead and those kind of get
12:13
translated both as the players but also within their
12:15
careacter. That's really cool. I never thought about that before. That would be an
12:18
interesting way to kind of categorize
12:21
RPGs.
12:22
>> Hartley: Yeah. Because like Pathfinder
12:25
I feel like could go either way.
12:26
>> Hartley: Because if you pre plan and have
12:29
a really nice party composition, it can be great.
12:32
>> Skylar: Ye.
12:33
>> Hartley: But then also a lot of the times the
12:35
characters like by themselves
12:38
are fine.
12:38
>> Hartley: Because Pathfinder allows you to be so
12:41
specialized.
12:41
>> Skylar: Right.
12:42
>> Hartley: If you just make sure that you're not all wizards.
12:46
Other than that you can just
12:48
do your own thing.
12:50
>> Skylar: Yeah. I think that's kind of playing off of this idea of
12:52
sort of playing with players that you don't know very well.
12:55
One thing that I've always noticed and one thing I love to do when I do Powered by
12:58
the Apocalypse game. So anything from masks all
13:01
the way to we've done Escape from Dino island, we did a really
13:04
fun one with that. And I love to
13:07
go behind the scenes to each one of the players before we get started and
13:10
say, okay, I want you to make some sort of like
13:13
secret mission or secret goal
13:15
that you have that the others don't have. Right. You're all going to be in the
13:18
same group. You're all going to have kind of this singular
13:21
go to. We're going to defeat the monster, we're going to get off this island,
13:24
whatever the case. But saying to Them like, hey,
13:27
I also want you as a person to be
13:30
focused on one particular weird thing.
13:33
Right. And if you do that with people that know each
13:35
other super well, the problem is that they have tells. It's kind
13:38
of like poker. Right. Like, I know that he's bluffing, or
13:41
I know that he's got a secret, or I know he wants me to go to
13:44
this particular thing because
13:48
he knows this guy outside of game. Right.
13:50
Yeah. So that's a fun idea is like, there are certain
13:53
games that work with the idea of
13:56
new people and being able to kind of play around
13:59
with the opportunity to create some like, added
14:02
drama and added character stuff. And then there's some that don't.
14:05
>> Hartley: I think also a lot of games
14:08
work differently on the DM side.
14:11
Or gm, Whatever term is used for the game.
14:14
And sometimes it's completely different than with
14:17
the player. Sometimes a very narrative system can have a very crunchy
14:20
GM side.
14:21
>> Skylar: True.
14:22
>> Hartley: and stuff like that. So I think also
14:25
finding a system that works well
14:28
with your GMing style is really important.
14:31
Like, I know, the Dark Eye
14:33
has its lore and
14:36
maps and terrain and stuff like, written out
14:39
in so much detail that in a map
14:42
the size, like a huge
14:44
map, there's at least a paragraph for
14:47
every single town.
14:48
>> Skylar: Wow.
14:49
>> Hartley: Something like that. And Dark Eye is
14:52
a popular tabletop role playing game in I believe
14:55
it's Germany.
14:57
>> Skylar: Interesting.
14:57
>> Hartley: Okay.
14:58
>> Skylar: Like, it takes place in dreaming.
14:59
>> Hartley: I tried playing it with my group, because I thought
15:02
it was really fun. But the character
15:04
creation process gives you. I believe it's
15:07
like 100 points. Maybe it's a thousand
15:10
that you put into every single skill. And it's like the most
15:13
intricate, complex. And then the system is
15:16
also s. Not as crunchy as character creation.
15:19
If you don't know what you're doing with character creation,
15:22
sure. It's just not really playable. And the
15:24
character creation is so difficult that my group wasn't able
15:27
to handle it.
15:28
>> Skylar: yes. And that actually kind of goes into the next kind of
15:31
question or topic that I was going to ask about, which
15:34
is obviously one of the biggest fears. And I know I've
15:37
had it. I've been the guy that said, well, let's try to do a
15:40
D and D campaign that's not set in a high fantasy world. And then
15:42
quickly realized this is. This is a mess to either
15:45
make or try to come up with. so for those
15:48
GMs and players out there that are like, oh,
15:51
I'd love to use a new system, but
15:54
I'm really not looking forward to the idea of
15:57
trying to figure it out or whatever the case. What kind
15:59
of how can we as the
16:02
DM'and the players of this world, how can we overcome
16:05
that fear or that dread or whatever it is that you want to call
16:07
it, to push through and inevitably take
16:10
on those new systems?
16:12
>> Hartley: Podcasts are really helpful. Yeah, actual play
16:15
podcasts, listening to the system being played by
16:18
other people is really helpful. One shots.
16:21
True M. Run a one shot with your group, see how they
16:24
feel about something before diving in.
16:26
>> Skylar: Yeah.
16:27
>> Hartley: There was one time where I prepped this large
16:29
campaign without testing it,
16:32
which was like this very
16:35
intricate lore based
16:37
subterfuge war or whatever
16:40
where the players were trying to play both sides and
16:43
whatever and they loved
16:45
it. And we went through a few sessions but
16:48
then eventually I had to call it off because it was an absolute nightmare to
16:51
gm. Right. And with something like
16:54
that, no one was falling any of the pre
16:57
built threads and everything was just like
17:00
falling apart. And at the point where
17:03
they were now, I had everything that I had
17:06
planned completely out the window.
17:07
>> Skylar: Right.
17:07
>> Hartley: So something as careful as
17:10
that didn't specifically work. And
17:13
I think that if I had
17:16
tested it with a one shot
17:19
in that setting
17:22
or whatever, that
17:26
was a very political one shot, I would have
17:29
been able to see. Yeah. Maybe don't put
17:31
effort into doing this campaign or do this
17:34
campaign because this just isn't going to
17:37
work with this more silly
17:40
light group.
17:41
>> Skylar: Yeah.
17:41
>> Hartley: So doing one shots with your group is helpful.
17:44
>> Hartley: I also find that like if you go
17:46
online and you find like
17:50
public games or whatever,
17:52
sometimes the GMs with public games
17:56
can be really good. Or like even as a
17:58
gm, being a player in a public
18:01
game is really helpful.
18:03
>> Skylar: Oh absolutely. Yeah.
18:04
>> Hartley: Because then you see how other people are able to gm, and
18:07
stuff like that. And if you do bad, it's a public gameing, you're
18:10
never going to see those people again.
18:12
>> Skylar: True.
18:13
>> Hartley: There's really no downside in it. And a lot of the
18:16
times once you play one game it's
18:19
much better.
18:20
>> Skylar: Right. It clicks.
18:21
>> Hartley: So I'm in a few groups, I
18:24
DM for one of them but in one of
18:27
the other groups I was in, which this is,
18:30
before this I was fully like only playing
18:33
D and D M and like maybe
18:36
some fate accelerated. But
18:38
they decided, the rest of the group had
18:41
decided to switch to Pathfinder and I was
18:44
kind of considering leaving.
18:46
>> Skylar: Sure.
18:46
>> Hartley: Because I had biases and
18:49
whatever. And like when I
18:52
was trying to learn Pathfinder rules And
18:55
stuff. I was kind of only looking at stuff
18:57
that was critiquing Pathfinder and
19:00
sure. Looking at comparisons between Pathfinder and
19:03
Dandy, which I don't really think
19:06
you should be trying to compare these systems.
19:09
>> Skylar: Right.
19:09
>> Hartley: Because if you compare the systems, then
19:12
it just. You kind of lose the feeling
19:15
of it.
19:16
>> Skylar: Yeah. You're not keeping an open mind to like, let me see why
19:18
people like this and let me see why the group wants to go
19:21
towards this.
19:23
>> Hartley: One of the things that I heard a lot of was
19:26
that, Pathfinder is
19:28
horizontal progression opposed to vertical
19:31
progression.
19:32
>> Skylar: Okay.
19:33
>> Hartley: Which I
19:36
have some minor issues with
19:39
it, but it really is not as much as people say it is.
19:41
>> Skylar: Okay, what does that mean exactly?
19:44
>> Hartley: So with vertical and horizontal, what people.
19:47
A lot of people were saying is that Dungeons and
19:50
Dragons you get lots of skills that
19:53
stack. Right. So, at level two, you gain this
19:55
ability. At level three, when you get this ability, you get
19:58
this specific buff. At level four, this ability, you can cast
20:01
it twice at level and it's just kind of all piling
20:04
on to the one or two abilities you get at the beginning.
20:07
Right. Which is fun because that means high damage numbers and
20:10
whatever. And horizontal progression
20:13
is like you get
20:16
more options. Right. So it's
20:19
not necessarily just stacking all
20:21
onto one thing, which I didn't like that.
20:25
Right. Because I felt
20:27
that eventually you just have so
20:30
many options, you're just going to be choosing two or three because there's only so many
20:33
things you can do in your turn.
20:34
>> Skylar: Right.
20:35
>> Hartley: But with Pathfinder,
20:37
right. It. You can do a lot more things
20:40
because there's the three action economy. And
20:44
it's not necessarily all
20:46
horizontal progression. And now that
20:49
I think about it, like with D and
20:51
D, if you're just always casting Eldritch
20:54
Blast as a Warlock, it just kind of becomes
20:57
boring.
20:58
>> Skylar: Yes. Monotonous.
21:00
>> Hartley: It's, a kind of horizontal progression. But
21:03
it's not like you're just getting more things piled on top.
21:05
You're swapping out old things for new
21:08
things and. Not necessarily,
21:11
but you're getting more abilities that you can
21:14
use at the same time, but you don't always have
21:17
to use them together. Right, Right, right.
21:19
Because some of the higher
21:22
level stuff for Warlock gives you
21:25
bonuses to Eldritch Blast. If you're playing a
21:28
Warlock that doesn't use Eldrit Blast, that ability is
21:31
useless to you.
21:31
>> Skylar: Right.
21:32
>> Hartley: But in Pathfinder, if you're able to
21:35
get abilities and stuff
21:38
due to it being more horizontal than
21:41
vertical, it's not
21:43
specifically for one thing. And they're more
21:46
versatile.
21:46
>> Skylar: Sure. So there are going to be situations where an ability
21:49
that you have that you might not have really made much use
21:52
of up until this point is now incredibly
21:55
useful because the situation is there to use
21:58
it. Interesting. So what eventually sold you
22:01
on Pathfinder enough to kind of stick around, with
22:04
the groove?
22:04
>> Hartley: I played one game and that's all it took. I played one
22:07
game and it was fun.
22:08
>> Skylar: Awesome. Okay.
22:09
>> Hartley: And then like once you start playing it,
22:12
you're going to know whether or not you like the system.
22:16
>> Skylar: I like that. So highlight here.
22:19
First thing to do, obviously is kind of determine
22:22
Both as the GM and as your group, what kind of
22:25
RPGs you're looking for. Right. What kind of stuff that
22:27
they're up for. I, you know, if I'm a GM
22:30
that really likes more of a narrative feel, I might be looking at some
22:33
of the Powered by the apocxalypse games, for
22:35
example. And then I need to look at my players and say, well, do
22:38
they also enjoy kind of a more a narrative feel
22:41
type situation? Because if they do and they're not
22:44
looking for like a heavy numbers, crunchy game, maybe this is
22:47
the right fit for us. We can find something within the
22:50
narrative genre of TTRPGs, to
22:52
pick from. And then from there it's a matter of
22:55
like you've just been saying, you know, do a one shot,
22:58
do one session and just kind of
23:01
get a feel for it. The beauty of it is that a lot of TTRPGs usually
23:04
come with you know, these pre written short
23:07
campaigns. Avatar led. I know I go back to Avatar
23:10
Legends a lot just because that was what kind of started our podcast.
23:12
But they have just in the book they have like
23:15
five or six I think, different little one shots
23:18
that you can do. So taking those two things
23:21
as DMs and as players out there who
23:24
are like, I'm so used to D and D, but maybe I should look into other
23:27
things. But I'm a little nervous. Figure out what
23:30
genre of RPG you're looking for, what kind of themes and
23:33
so on and so forth. Talk with your players,
23:36
combine all of that information and then try something out.
23:39
Don'commit over, commit to something.
23:41
>> Hartley: Yeah. And I think for. There's also the price point, right.
23:43
also where buying a new tabletop role playing
23:47
game can be pricey because tabletop role playing games are
23:50
expensive.
23:50
>> Skylar: Absolutely, they can be. They absolutely can be.
23:53
>> Hartley: But if you look
23:55
online, most of the times, most
23:58
tabletop role playing games have a starter back.
24:00
>> Skylar: Yeah.
24:01
>> Hartley: Something like that for free or for very cheap
24:04
online?
24:04
>> Skylar: Absolutely.
24:05
>> Hartley: Where you don't get the full rules.
24:07
>> Hartley: You get a starter pack, part of the
24:10
rules most of the time for free. You
24:13
test with those rules. If your players like it
24:15
from there, you buy the rules.
24:17
>> Skylar: Yes. I like that. And you've got ah, free RPG
24:20
Day as an awesome. Like every year, every comic
24:23
book store, every board game store, a lot of, well, most of
24:26
them, will get like huge pack of just different
24:29
little bits and pieces of RPGs so that you can try them out.
24:31
Right. which is always really exciting. Or like you
24:34
could go to what does it drive through? RPG is a great
24:37
place to get them and you can find like, like you said cheap
24:40
or free. I mean goodness, like a dollar
24:43
to free. And you can get you'll have
24:46
access to just like all sorts of things. What other resources can you think
24:48
of that would be really helpful towards somebody that
24:51
wants to try out a new system?
24:52
>> Hartley: So we're trying out new system. A lot of the times game
24:55
stores will just let you
24:59
grab a rulebook and use it in the game store and then put it
25:02
back.
25:02
>> Skylar: Oh that's true. Yeah. If they got like a little library.
25:04
>> Hartley: Of you stuffime they have
25:07
play areas or whatever, you and your
25:10
group could go there, test out the rules. If you like
25:13
it, then you buy it.
25:14
>> Skylar: Right.
25:15
>> Hartley: I don't think you should ever
25:18
really be buying
25:20
a rulebook before you've tested it out with player. Now
25:23
I'm saying this as I'm thinking
25:26
about how I just bought the
25:29
rules of Blades in the Dark before testing it.
25:31
>> Skylar: Sure.
25:31
>> Hartley: with my players. But it's just a fun system.
25:34
>> Skylar: Yeah, yeah.
25:35
>> Hartley: Even if I don't end up playing it with other people.
25:38
>> Skylar: I've also been very guilty of that. All the Kickstarter
25:40
campaigns that I've kind of just jumped on because I'm like, that just sounds
25:43
cool. I don't know much about it, but it sounds great. So.
25:46
>> Hartley: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:47
>> Skylar: It happens.
25:48
>> Hartley: The thing with Kickstarters is you can't really test it.
25:51
>> Skylar: That's true. Yeah.
25:52
>> Hartley: So sometimes you just buy games
25:55
because you find the game fun.
25:57
>> Skylar: Yeah.
25:57
>> Hartley: And from there you can find groups that want to play that
26:00
game. And then sometimes you're going to be buying games
26:03
for your group.
26:04
>> Hartley: And I think there's a difference there. I think also when
26:07
choosing a game for your group, you start with what
26:10
you can handle. Right, Right.
26:13
So before you think about what the player preferences are
26:16
or whatever they want to do, you need to figure out
26:19
what you can handle.
26:20
>> Hartley: Like do you want to be doing world
26:22
building? Do you want to be doing settings?
26:26
Do you want to be doing a lot of
26:28
math? And like,
26:31
do you want to just be sitting back for 30 minutes while
26:34
the players talk amongst each other and.
26:37
>> Skylar: You get to just be like,
26:38
>> Hartley: And then find
26:41
a list of RPGs and then go
26:44
to your players and then figure out what
26:47
they want to do. Y and whatever.
26:49
Now actually I'm not sure if it's in the
26:52
players handbooker. Dungeon Master Guide 4 Dungeons &
26:55
Dragons. There's a little section at the front
26:58
about figuring out what type of players
27:01
your players are.
27:02
>> Skylar: Okay.
27:02
>> Hartley: A great resource.
27:04
>> Skylar: Yeah.
27:04
>> Hartley: We for re finding other games that aren't D and D. Right,
27:07
right. Because it gives examples of stuff, that
27:10
I think using that would
27:13
be helpful in finding players.
27:15
>> Skylar: Absolutely, absolutely. As we mentioned
27:18
before, different players are going to be better for
27:21
different scenarios for different TTRPGs, for different
27:24
systems, for different mechanics. So there's definitely a lot
27:27
of opportunity there. With that being said and I think
27:30
we really kind of hit on the idea that there are a lot, there
27:33
are a lot of different TTRPGs out there, both
27:36
systems or homebrews for pre
27:38
existing systems to kind of introduce new themes
27:41
and so on and so forth. With that being said, as somebody
27:44
that's working on one yourself, what have we seen
27:47
as some trends that are kind of starting to emerge as far as
27:50
TTRPGs go?
27:51
>> Hartley: I've seen a little. It's not
27:54
much, but I've seen a little bit of a rise in GM
27:57
list games.
27:58
>> Skylar: Oh, okay.
27:59
>> Hartley: Which are really fun. Sure. I've
28:02
seen a lot more movement away from just fully
28:05
combat m focus systems.
28:07
>> Skylar: Yeah, I think I can agree with that. I think I've seen a bit of a lean
28:10
narrative. Yes, exactly.
28:12
>> Hartley: And everything is going rules
28:15
light.
28:16
>> Skylar: Yes, yes, absolutely.
28:17
>> Hartley: It's just going more and more. Which like
28:20
that's a good thing.
28:22
>> Skylar: Yeah. Oh absolutely.
28:23
>> Hartley: Because it means that a lot of them are a lot
28:26
cheaper and you can get a lot more and try out a lot more
28:29
and they're easier to get into. But then I also feel
28:32
that sometimes it's a bad thing
28:34
because rules, like systems, they're hard to do
28:37
longer games in.
28:38
>> Skylar: Sure. Yeah.
28:39
>> Hartley: And sometimes you do want that really crunchy
28:42
feel at the table.
28:44
>> Skylar: Right.
28:44
>> Hartley: But then there's so much harder to make.
28:47
>> Skylar: Yes, absolute.
28:48
>> Hartley: Like my system, is
28:50
medium.
28:51
>> Skylar: Yeah, I'd say so. After reading through some of the stuff, I'd say it's
28:54
probably about medium.
28:55
>> Hartley: It's somewhere in between. And I would never be able to do something
28:58
as complicated as some of the heavy,
29:01
heavy systems.
29:02
>> Skylar: Sure.
29:03
>> Hartley: Like Pathfinder. Freaking crazy.
29:05
>> Skylar: Oh yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
29:07
>> Hartley: And then that's just like tip of the
29:10
iceberg.
29:10
>> Skylar: Sure.
29:11
>> Hartley: things get much more in depth
29:14
from there. But a lot of trending towards rules
29:17
like Zs have been rising in
29:20
popularity. Just like short, short games and
29:23
then games specifically built for just one jots.
29:26
>> Skylar: Yes. And I'd actually go off of that too.
29:29
And kind of putting those two things together, I've definitely seen a
29:32
lot of them that are. It's explicit to
29:35
some. Some pre existing media. Right.
29:38
Like Avatar Legends because people
29:40
wanted to play in Avatar Last Air vendor.
29:43
and the whole system is just built around that. So it's very like
29:46
straightforward. I saw one during the last time we
29:49
went to or the last time they had the RPG
29:52
day. one of them I remember seeing was
29:54
for Runescape and it's an entire TTRPG
29:57
just built explicitly around Runescape. which I thought
30:00
was so interesting how much that's like exploded after
30:03
just being what it was way back in the day. But
30:06
yeah it'and so they are taking that idea of like
30:09
let's keep it very narrative. Let's keep it very short
30:12
and sweet and let's kind of make it to. I
30:15
completely agree towards like kind of a one shot feel. It's really hard to
30:18
run like super long term games in these things.
30:21
>> Hartley: Yeah. Which can be great sometimes but then
30:24
it can also be kind of annoying when you do want to
30:27
run a long term game. Yeah. I've been looking at
30:30
purchasing or pre ordering because I've been looking forward to it.
30:34
Which I think is going to be more
30:36
crunchy.
30:37
>> Hartley: Brandon Sanerson's new Cosmere
30:40
rpg.
30:40
>> Skylar: Yeah. Absolutely.
30:41
>> Hartley: I think that should be interesting.
30:43
>> Skylar: I agree. Yeah. That's gonna be exciting when that comes out. My wife's
30:46
a big fan of the whole series
30:49
and she's not super into
30:51
TTRPGs but I feel like that might be a way to get
30:54
her.
30:54
>> Hartley: Into it because I know she loves the defly.
31:18
Yeah. A lot of tabletop role playing games are going a
31:21
lot more simple.
31:22
>> Hartley: A lot of them are moving away from the D20.
31:25
>> Skylar: Yes.
31:26
>> Hartley: So they're discovering other dice systems
31:29
and a lot of them are using dice pools or a
31:31
D100 system.
31:33
>> Skylar: Sure.
31:33
>> Hartley: I think two that I've seen is either
31:36
D100 or
31:39
just D6.
31:40
>> Skylar: Yes. I have definitely seen a lot of D6
31:43
based systems and a lot of them using the dice pool, which
31:45
a.
31:46
>> Hartley: Lot of people with D6 it's a lot
31:48
easier. Right. When you're introducing a new person to the game,
31:52
you have to give them these dice. Right. And
31:54
say. Yeah. So you're going to have to memorize the names for each
31:57
of these. They look really similar.
31:59
>> Skylar: Yes. That's probably one of the biggest things that slows down
32:02
a game of D and D is you get a new person in and they're
32:05
like wait, which one is that?
32:07
>> Hartley: Roling the D12 instead of the D20 for the first.
32:09
>> Skylar: Exactly, exactly. That moment when they're supposed to do in
32:12
D8 it's worth of damage. And they're like I got an 11. And you're like,
32:15
how did you. You don't have a multiplier. What are you talking about? You have an
32:18
11.
32:19
>> Hartley: So a lot of dice stuff
32:22
changes. Which dice? Sometimes people
32:25
just choose dice for no
32:28
reason and they're like, I just think this is cool.
32:30
Which can be annoying
32:33
because like when designing a system, I think the dice
32:36
should reflect the system. Oh absolutely. Mathematically.
32:39
>> Hartley: Like pools and stuff like that have been
32:42
coming into popularity where like you're getting
32:45
a bunch of D6 and then you're trying to just
32:48
roll sixes. Absolutely right. 16 equals a
32:51
success. And then you add, instead of
32:54
modifiers, you're just adding more dice.
32:56
>> Skylar: Right.
32:56
>> Hartley: Which is interesting. And it fits some systems.
32:58
>> Skylar: Yeah, absolutely. There's ways to make that work and ways that that
33:01
works. I know. I just got the Wilderf Feast campaign
33:04
stuff from Kickstarter and that's kind of one of the, the themes they
33:07
go with that is gaining D sixes
33:10
or choosing to take an alternate route that gives you other dice. But
33:13
I digress.
33:15
>> Hartley: I also recently saw one system where each
33:18
of the
33:20
classes is using different types of dice to
33:23
attack and beat the same ac.
33:24
>> Skylar: Oh, interesting. Okay.
33:26
>> Hartley: And like doing different dice of damage,
33:28
which was interesting.
33:30
>> Skylar: Yeah. So yeah, dice is definitely kind of a big
33:33
element to the trends that we're seeing. And like you said,
33:36
dice pools is a big one, which is super
33:39
interesting. So with that being said,
33:42
let's jump over to We've seen how other people are
33:44
kind of working on creating TTRPGs and what seems to
33:47
be popular now, which doesn't guarantee that it's going to be popular.
33:50
But that's, you know, what we're seeing it like I said, emerging
33:53
trends. Jumping over to Nightbringer, which is
33:56
your game that you're working on Your system. Tell me
33:59
about that. What? I mean, I guess first of all, let's just
34:02
start with kind of the basic overview. Tell me a little bit about
34:04
what inspired you to make it. What are we looking at when
34:07
it comes, to it and its mechanics and so on and so
34:10
forth.
34:11
>> Hartley: So Nightbringer is an Ward Tabletop role playing
34:14
game.
34:14
>> Skylar: Nice.
34:15
>> Hartley: That's all humans, all wizards.
34:17
Right. Which was like around
34:20
a year ago, maybe half a year. I don't know. It seems like it's been a
34:23
while.
34:24
>> Skylar: It takes a long time to make it. Yeah, Yeah.
34:27
>> Hartley: I was thinking about creating like
34:30
a simple rules light system or
34:33
whatever, which it is not anymore. And
34:36
I was just drawing
34:39
around on paper, trying to create an interesting
34:42
character sheet that had like
34:45
skills tied to races tied to classes and everything
34:48
tied together. And I wanted to do something interesting
34:51
for magic. So I
34:54
was looking around and
34:56
I kind of felt that if
34:59
you're going to have cool magic and
35:02
stuff, the melee kind of falls
35:05
short.
35:05
>> Skylar: It's a good point.
35:07
>> Hartley: Because a person that can cast
35:10
a huge ball of fire shouldn't be
35:12
equal in power to a guy with a pointy stick.
35:14
>> Skylar: Right. It kind of goes back to like in avr, the Last
35:17
Airbender. You always kind of wonder about the non benders
35:20
and you're like, yeah, but I mean I get he's good with the
35:23
sword, but like that guy could literally throw a wave of water
35:26
on him and then freeze it and he's not gonna be able to do anything, you
35:29
know?
35:29
>> Hartley: Yeah. So. And then I was
35:32
working towards the wizard stuff.
35:35
>> Skylar: Yeah.
35:36
>> Hartley: And I kind of decided to get rid of
35:38
races.
35:39
>> Skylar: Sure.
35:40
>> Hartley: Because having it all be human
35:43
wizards makes you focus a
35:46
lot more on
35:48
the classes themselves.
35:50
>> Skylar: Right.
35:51
>> Hartley: Than the character's appearance and whatever.
35:54
And how the character is culturally.
35:57
>> Skylar: Yeah. It's one less thing to have to like
36:00
think about and focus on when you're creating your character
36:03
that like overmpicates things sometimes.
36:06
>> Hartley: So it's changed a lot. And it's funny that you
36:09
mentioned Avatar. right. Because the Initiative
36:11
system, one of the main tactical
36:14
things, is partially based off of the Avatar system.
36:17
>> Skylar: Oh, okay.
36:18
>> Hartley: I was talking with someone after a playte test and they
36:21
suggested something from some other system that I was like, oh, that's
36:23
similar to the Avatar system, which is what I had the most
36:26
experience with. But it's like
36:29
if you take the narrative
36:32
of the Avatar system and
36:35
you just add in a bunch of crunchy math.
36:38
>> Skylar: Sure.
36:39
>> Hartley: So the system, it's meant to
36:41
be simple to
36:44
learn.
36:44
>> Hartley: It still is. Much easier than Dungeons and
36:47
Dragons. And one of the main things is when
36:50
creating a character, getting that
36:53
character sheet ready is just
36:56
so much more simple.
36:57
>> Skylar: Sure.
36:58
>> Hartley: Than any other system I've seen.
37:00
>> Skylar: Okay. Which is great.
37:01
>> Hartley: Yeah. It's the initiative
37:04
system. It is meant it's in
37:07
four different rounds.
37:09
>> Skylar: Okay. Right.
37:10
>> Hartley: Like how the avatar has.
37:12
>> Skylar: I think it was three. Three different rounds.
37:15
>> Hartley: Yeah.
37:15
>> Skylar: Based on, like, kind of what you want to accomplish
37:18
within your turn.
37:20
>> Hartley: So unlike that, it's. There are four
37:23
different rounds, and the more powerful
37:25
the spell, the later it goes.
37:27
>> Skylar: Oh, that makes sense. Okay.
37:29
>> Hartley: But then if you get attacked before you're able to
37:32
get your spell off, there's a chance of dropping it.
37:35
>> Skylar: O. Okay. More risk, more
37:38
reward type thing. Very cool.
37:40
>> Hartley: And not like fully dropping it, so you don't get it. I used to do
37:43
that and people got pissed.
37:44
>> Skylar: Oh, absolutely.
37:45
>> Hartley: I had to change it up a little bit.
37:47
>> Skylar: Sure.
37:48
>> Hartley: But with the initiative, it makes things
37:50
a lot more interesting.
37:52
>> Skylar: Yeah.
37:52
>> Hartley: And then. Plus throw reactions in there.
37:55
Which I decided that for the
37:58
system that I wanted to make, I didn't
38:01
want reactions to, be limited,
38:04
like in D and D, to only one. If
38:07
you want to burn through all your stuff, go ahead and do it.
38:10
>> Skylar: Okay.
38:10
>> Hartley: So. And the entire system, it's built around
38:13
the fact that wizards are squishy.
38:16
>> Skylar: Sure.
38:16
>> Hartley: Right. And it is really
38:19
easy to die.
38:21
>> Skylar: Right.
38:21
>> Hartley: And then there is revival and stuff like that.
38:24
But sometimes that's not the best idea.
38:26
>> Skylar: Interesting. So with the way the turns
38:29
work and thinking kind of just because Avatar
38:32
Legends is kind of a framework for
38:35
this or an idea that we can grasp onto,
38:38
it almost kind of feels like. Almost like a duel.
38:41
Like a wizard duel, in a sense. and like
38:44
you said, with, like, reactions and stuff. So, like, I'm going toa take a really
38:47
powerful spell. It's going to take a little while to get there.
38:50
Right. I might get attacked by the other wizard that I'm
38:53
fighting in the meantime. And then along the
38:56
way, there's going to be reactions to, like, And maybe.
38:58
Maybe I'm wrong here, but like, to kind of, like, block a little bit
39:01
or.
39:02
>> Hartley: Or even so by reactions. There
39:04
are some blocking stuff, but it's mostly spells.
39:08
>> Skylar: Right.
39:08
>> Hartley: Other spells, which,
39:11
like, every spell has a
39:14
cost in mana or soul or.
39:17
Yeah. What to call it. We've been debating between a
39:20
few names, but every spell has a
39:22
cost. Right. Including the reaction
39:25
spells. And because of the fact
39:27
that wizards are squishy and wizards burn out. F.
39:30
I want the feeling that you burn out fast.
39:32
>> Skylar: Yeah, absolutely.
39:34
>> Hartley: Right. And combat is very fast.
39:35
>> Skylar: Yes.
39:36
>> Hartley: So you have six mana per level.
39:39
>> Skylar: Sure.
39:40
>> Hartley: And each spell is going to be costing one or
39:42
two, at first level. Right.
39:44
So that's three to six
39:47
spells, including the reactions, which
39:50
reactions tend to cost more.
39:51
>> Skylar: That makes sense.
39:53
>> Hartley: So using a reaction, it's
39:56
pricey.
39:56
>> Skylar: Yeah.
39:57
>> Hartley: And some of the reactions are rerolling
40:00
dice. Some of them are mitigating damage and stuff like
40:02
that. I believe there's one that does
40:05
damage to an enemy when they attack you.
40:08
and some movement stuff. But it's a lot
40:11
more pricey to do something not on your turn than to do it
40:14
on your turn.
40:15
>> Skylar: Sure, that makes sense.
40:16
>> Hartley: And when I've explained the initiative system to people,
40:19
sometimes they get confused.
40:22
And actually I once tried playtesting the
40:25
version that they thought they were going to play.
40:27
>> Skylar: Okay.
40:28
>> Hartley: It didn't. It sounds like a good idea, but
40:31
it's not. Which is where everyone is
40:34
acting separately and they have a certain amount of turns
40:37
to charge up their spell and then they play it. So the way
40:40
that the system, which is
40:42
like, okay, so I cast this and then in
40:45
two rounds I'll be able to cast this. And then three rounds I'll be able to cast
40:48
this. Which sounds like it would work, but it
40:51
just doesn't.
40:52
>> Skylar: Right, sure.
40:53
>> Hartley: Like players are nowhere near coordinated enough
40:56
to be able to do that.
40:58
>> Skylar: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I mean, hey, that's
41:01
why we do playtesting.
41:03
>> Hartley: But what I have now
41:06
is there are four rounds in these
41:09
rounds right at the beginning. So it's four
41:12
rounds in a cycle. And the cycles are broken
41:15
up at the beginning of every cycle. The players
41:18
talk and deliberate. Then everyone tells the DM
41:21
which round they're going on.
41:23
>> Skylar: Oh, okay.
41:24
>> Hartley: So everyone tells the DM which round they're going on. And then the
41:27
DM says when the enemies are going.
41:29
>> Skylar: Mm
41:29
>> Hartley: Right.
41:29
>> Skylar: And you can obviously have multiple people that are going in
41:32
round two or something like that.
41:34
>> Hartley: Everything in the round happens simultaneously.
41:37
>> Skylar: Okay.
41:38
>> Hartley: You just go around. And if I
41:41
were to get attacked for five damage and that were to kill
41:44
me.
41:45
>> Hartley: I also go on the same roundute and I were to make an attack
41:48
against some other enemy for three damage, that enemy still
41:51
takes three damage and I go down.
41:52
>> Skylar: Okay. Okay. Because you're throwing this like bolt of
41:55
lightning just as he's also throwing a bolt of lightning back at
41:58
you and they're hitting each other. That's cool. Okay. I like
42:01
it. Very cool.
42:03
>> Hartley: So the stuff happens at the same time on a round and
42:05
then at the End of the round you get to choose new
42:08
positions. In the round.
42:10
>> Skylar: Oh, okay. So you can say okay, I want to be in different.
42:13
>> Hartley: Yeah, yeaheah.
42:14
>> Skylar: Round one this time around.
42:16
>> Hartley: And so you don't have to specify what you're doing, you just have to
42:19
specify which round you're going on.
42:20
>> Skylar: Gotcha.
42:21
>> Hartley: And different spells have round specifications.
42:24
>> Skylar: Right, right. I was just going to say that makes sense. Okay.
42:26
>> Hartley: Like round two or later. Now if you get
42:29
hit, like if you decide to go round four and you get
42:32
hit. Right.
42:34
>> Hartley: That means that on your turn, even though you are in
42:37
round four, you are going to be acting as if it's around
42:39
three.
42:40
>> Skylar: Okay.
42:41
>> Hartley: You got partially disrupted. Got it. So
42:44
you can only cast around three and lower spells. If you
42:47
got hit again before you were able to go, then you would
42:50
be going round two
42:52
spells even though you are at round
42:55
four.
42:56
>> Skylar: Right. So it's like you're setting the mana, or whatever you decide to call
42:59
it aside to cast this larger spell
43:01
and then you're getting hit and realizing I'm not going to be able to take
43:04
this spell. I need to exude this mana, into
43:07
something less intense, but something
43:10
nonetheless so that I can help my team for whatever however it is that you want
43:13
to do it. And it also keeps the options open too.
43:16
So if someone gets hit, one of your friends gets hit
43:19
in round one and I go into round two. And I was like, well,
43:22
I was going to cast a fireball at somebody, but I
43:25
think instead I'm going to deviate that mana into doing
43:28
a healing spell to bring that one player. Oh, okay. Very
43:31
cool. Okay.
43:31
>> Hartley: Yeah. Ye. So the four runs are instant, swift, focused and
43:34
tactical.
43:35
>> Skylar: Okay. Oh, that makes sense. Very cool. I like how they're
43:38
named based on the speed at which're you're casting a
43:41
spell. Okay, very cool.
43:42
>> Hartley: Now the other thing which I forgot
43:45
because this was semi recent is the
43:48
four ability scores are kind
43:51
of unique to the system unike other system because
43:54
they're used both inside and outside of combat.
43:56
>> Hartley: Like four different things.
43:58
Because in a game like Dungeons and
44:01
Dragons you are using your attack modifier
44:04
for attacking and then that's all it does. Right, Right. So what
44:07
we have is we have the four skills. Occultism, Might,
44:10
awareness and cunning.
44:11
>> Skylar: Okay.
44:12
>> Hartley: So occultism is going to be used for
44:15
things like you keeping focus on your
44:18
spells.
44:18
>> Skylar: Okay.
44:19
>> Hartley: Recalling knowledge, knowing about
44:22
history, solving puzzles
44:24
and doing intellect based things.
44:28
>> Skylar: Yeah.
44:28
>> Hartley: your might skill is going to be used
44:31
for doing damage oay
44:34
against enemies with your spell and it's going
44:37
to be helping you resist against status effects.
44:40
Right. So if you need to make some sort of save
44:43
against the stat effect, you're going to be using your might as well. And
44:46
it's going to be used for like breaking
44:48
down doors and doing other strength based things.
44:51
>> Skylar: Sure. It's your personal like it's, it's attack,
44:54
defense and constitutional all kind of rolled into one.
44:57
>> Hartley: And your awareness, that's
45:00
what you're going to be doing when you roll a
45:03
hit on an attack.
45:04
>> Skylar: Right.
45:04
>> Hartley: You're going to roll with your
45:07
awareness to see if you hit.
45:10
>> Skylar: Yeah, yeah.
45:10
>> Hartley: Your hit chance.
45:12
>> Skylar: Got it. Your accuracy, your
45:14
perception.
45:15
>> Hartley: Now awareness, it's not just
45:18
perceptive. Awareness is also social awareness. Right. So
45:21
you're using that for social situations as well.
45:24
>> Skylar: Nice.
45:24
>> Hartley: And like talking to people
45:28
and stuff like that. And then cunning
45:30
is your deception, your
45:33
stealth, your acrobatics. And it's also what you're going to
45:36
be using to dodge.
45:38
>> Skylar: Okay.
45:39
>> Hartley: And what your AC is mostly going to be based off of.
45:41
>> Skylar: Right, right. That makes sense. Very cool.
45:44
>> Hartley: It's very different than how in other systems they kind
45:47
of have two sets of skills. One for
45:49
combat, one for out of combat.
45:52
>> Skylar: Got it.
45:52
>> Hartley: We kind of tie them in together and the way you get
45:55
those skills is when you're creating your character
45:58
through level ups, they're really not going to change. Sure.
46:01
Because I think it's kind of stupid
46:03
with games where if you
46:06
get a plus one in strength and the monster also gets a plus one
46:09
in strength as you level up, it doesn't do anything.
46:12
Right. So I really think there's not
46:15
really a point in doing that.
46:16
>> Skylar: Yeah. And there's kind of a weird aspect of it too, of like, okay, you
46:19
went and fought something on day one and
46:22
you beat it and you leveled up. And then day two your
46:25
strength went up by a score of two. Right. So it's
46:28
like overnight you, you gain two whole
46:31
points of strength and it changed like all these stats and like everything else,
46:34
like there's a little bit of lacking logic there for
46:36
sure.
46:37
>> Hartley: But out of the four scales you set one of them to
46:40
negus 1, 1 to 0, 1 to plus 1 and 1 to 2.
46:43
OK. And the thing with that is
46:45
that all four of those skills are really vital. Yes.
46:48
You're going to be using them a lot. There are only four
46:51
skills, so where you put those points is very
46:54
important.
46:54
>> Skylar: That makes sense.
46:55
>> Hartley: Going back to wizards being squishy and whatever,
46:58
plus one or plus two or minus one is a lot
47:01
because we use a 3D4
47:03
system.
47:04
>> Skylar: Okay. So you're rolling three D4s,
47:07
which is.
47:10
>> Hartley: Because wizard, like, it's fully
47:13
D4. Right. Because Wizards are squishy and
47:16
you're going to be having 6 HP at level one.
47:18
>> Skylar: Right. So people are going to go down quick.
47:21
>> Hartley: With a D4, you're going to go down fast.
47:23
>> Skylar: Yes, that makes sense.
47:25
>> Hartley: And then it was going to be 2D4, but
47:28
then me, my editor, we were re looking at
47:30
the probability curve and it just was too steep.
47:33
>> Skylar: Right.
47:34
>> Hartley: So, we needed to move to 3D4.
47:35
>> Skylar: Hey, you know, like I said, playtesting and understanding the math.
47:38
That's really cool.
47:39
>> Hartley: And I'm going to talk about one more thing before I
47:42
actually get into spells themselves, which is the meat
47:45
of system, which is we do
47:48
a few things like tethering,
47:50
which is your connection to
47:52
reality. And it's
47:55
a scale that goes
47:58
from. It's not numerical, but
48:00
it's six in either direction from center.
48:03
>> Skylar: Oh, okay.
48:04
>> Hartley: Right. And it's your amount of
48:07
tetheredness to reality.
48:08
>> Skylar: Okay.
48:09
>> Hartley: Right. So one side is reality, one side is
48:12
magic. And there are situations
48:15
where you're going to be moving along that scale.
48:18
Right. And when you move towards magic. Right.
48:20
Because at level one, you're going to be. And
48:23
it's consistent for every character, you're going to be having 6 HP
48:26
and 6 Mana.
48:27
>> Skylar: Okay.
48:28
>> Hartley: To start, when you move towards
48:30
magic, you get plus one
48:33
mana. Minus one HP.
48:34
>> Skylar: Okay.
48:36
>> Hartley: You move again. Plus one mana. minus one HP.
48:38
>> Skylar: Right. And it continues to st in the.
48:40
>> Hartley: Other way, you're going to be getting minus one N plus one
48:42
HP.
48:43
>> Skylar: Gotcha.
48:44
>> Hartley: So it's a balance.
48:47
>> Skylar: Yeah.
48:48
>> Hartley: Where you want to be on that. And
48:51
if you reach either side. Right. So
48:54
if you go too far and you go into magic,
48:56
you die.
48:57
>> Skylar: Right.
48:58
>> Hartley: And enemies can push you as well
49:01
in combat.
49:02
>> Skylar: Right.
49:02
>> Hartley: And there are situations that without
49:05
your will, you get pushed. Right. So it's. How
49:08
close do you want to be to risk?
49:09
>> Skylar: Yeah.
49:10
>> Hartley: When you get pushed into the magic side, you
49:12
die. And
49:15
thinking about doing some sort of explosion.
49:18
Right. Where you explode. Yes. And you deal all graph done of
49:21
damage to everyone. and on the
49:24
other side, if you get pushed too far and you go fully into
49:27
reality at that point, you lose all
49:30
your magic. You can't cast it again.
49:31
>> Skylar: Got it. O.
49:34
>> Hartley: So that character basically has to be retired.
49:36
>> Skylar: Yeah. It also opens up a really interesting from
49:39
within the world perspective and the lore perspective of
49:42
like this entire group of people that have lost their magic
49:45
along the way. And like what they've kind of had to turn
49:47
into.
49:49
>> Hartley: Yeah. And on that scale
49:51
of negative 6 to positive 6, you can gain wounds in
49:54
combatmm.
49:55
>> Hartley: Right. So when you take a bunch of damage and stuff, you
49:58
can get wounds. And there are physical
50:00
wounds and soul wounds. Right.
50:03
And physical wounds. When you get a physical wound
50:06
on that scale, the last part gets blocked
50:09
off.
50:10
>> Skylar: Oh. So then you re.
50:11
>> Hartley: That means the barrier of losing your magic is one
50:14
closer. Right.
50:15
>> Skylar: So you're moving this way and then it starts moving
50:18
this way. I know I just realized this is an audio
50:20
podcast and I just motioned with my hands, but I think people get
50:23
it.
50:24
>> Hartley: Yeah. And then the soul wounds do the same thing on the
50:26
other side.
50:27
>> Skylar: Gotcha. That makes sense.
50:30
>> Hartley: Which does some stuff. And a lot of it is based on
50:32
recovery. Right. So it's going to be difficult to recover.
50:35
###Ah from a lot of your stuff. Now going into the actual
50:38
classes and magic, which is the important
50:41
stuff.
50:42
>> Skylar: Well hey, the mechanics are important too.
50:44
>> Hartley: Yeah. There are four classes
50:47
which are, the Chronomanceswr.
50:49
>> Hartley: Which deals with time magic and
50:52
they're doing a lot of manipulation
50:55
stuff. There's the Eler,
50:58
which does elemental magic.
51:01
>> Skylar: Yep.
51:01
>> Hartley: Sen Br Mancer, which does transmutation
51:04
magic. And they're a little bit unique as
51:07
they mainly work in melee.
51:09
>> Skylar: Okay.
51:10
>> Hartley: and then there's the Necromancer which
51:12
does the summoning and the healing.
51:15
>> Skylar: Awesome.
51:15
>> Hartley: So these spells unlike other all wizard
51:18
systems because most all wizard systems I've
51:21
seen have you doing like
51:23
putting together ur own spells on your turn or whatever
51:26
and doing stuff. Because just for all wizards
51:29
you can't just get a few hundred
51:32
spells. I'm getting a few hundred spells.
51:35
I'm just going to actually brute force it and write them all out. Which
51:37
is the hardest part.
51:39
>> Skylar: Yes.
51:39
>> Hartley: currently I think I have like 25W and
51:42
before February I need a hundred more.
51:45
And writing a hundred unique spells
51:48
is really difficult.
51:49
>> Skylar: Oh absolutely. I can only imagine.
51:52
>> Hartley: But there's a lot of
51:55
variety and uniqueness in the spells and I'm trying to make
51:58
them so that you can use it out
52:01
of combat.
52:02
>> Skylar: Sure.
52:03
>> Hartley: Because it's important that characters
52:06
are able to do the things inside and outside of
52:08
combat.
52:09
>> Skylar: So it's very strategic within
52:12
your party, which I think is really cool. Like you said at
52:15
the beginning of each cycle. Cycle. Thank you. I was like, it
52:18
starts with the sea. within each. At the beginning of each cycle they're talking
52:21
amongst themselves like let's make a plan Here, but obviously they
52:24
don't know necessarily what whoever they're fighting
52:26
is, is going to do. So. Yeah, that's really cool. I like
52:29
it.
52:30
>> Hartley: yeah, like, I've seen during playst, people buff each
52:33
other. Buff each other, each other for like three rounds.
52:36
And then the highest damage I've ever seen at playist was
52:39
43 damage.
52:40
>> Skylar: 43. Holy cow.
52:42
>> Hartley: Something like that. Because they found some sort of loophole
52:45
in the system, which I had to go
52:48
and patch.
52:49
>> Skylar: Exactly.
52:50
>> Hartley: Like, it's very cooperative,
52:54
compared to some other systems where you're just doing stuff by
52:56
yourself.
52:57
>> Skylar: Yes, absolutely. And things like D and D and
53:00
stuff are very. Have, that tendency where one
53:03
person can kind of just disappear off and do their own thing.
53:05
And of course, as the dm, you're like, okay, well, now I've got two
53:08
whole stories going on here that I have to try to juggle. But in this
53:11
case, everybody's trying to work together to make sure
53:14
that whatever it is they do, because if they all split up, I
53:17
mean, that's a recipe for disaster. Yeah,
53:20
I know we're kind of coming to the end of the time and stuff like that. And I don't want
53:23
to push you too far past, I guess if anything, we'll leave,
53:25
lore and worlds for people to go
53:28
explore themselves and check out. So with that being
53:31
said, where can people find
53:34
Nightbringer? Where can people, get more information on this if
53:37
they wanted to check it out and, and possibly get it?
53:40
>> Hartley: Hartley.com comm h a r tash l-y.com do
53:43
has some minor info and then
53:46
has the links to the stuff that
53:49
you're going to be needing, like the email list
53:52
and the Kickstarter.
53:53
>> Skylar: Perfect.
53:53
>> Hartley: Kickstarter currently split up
53:56
into a few tiers, which
53:59
this will probably change
54:01
until February. So I'm not going to state any prices
54:04
and stuff. Most likely going to
54:07
be a digital, a
54:10
physical, and then maybe some sort
54:13
of box set.
54:14
>> Skylar: Sure.
54:14
>> Hartley: we're still trying to figure that out. And then there are some higher tiers
54:17
where you get to design spells that go into the rulebook.
54:20
>> Skylar: Awesome.
54:21
>> Hartley: Or you get to play in a
54:24
campaign with me. GMing.
54:26
>> Skylar: Nice.
54:27
>> Hartley: And some other stuff.
54:28
>> Skylar: Sweet.
54:29
>> Hartley: Check it out. Look at the teiers, see what you can do.
54:32
>> Skylar: Yeah. And also, of course, I'll point out, if you check out
54:35
our links, wherever it is that you find that, especially with like,
54:38
linktreee and so on, I'll definitely have a link to the
54:41
Kickstarter there as well. So if you're listening to this right now.
54:44
Hartley.com is a fantastic way to find
54:47
out about the Kickstarter. Or if you check out our links, you'll see it
54:50
in there as well. So one way or another, check it
54:52
out.
54:55
It's time for intramurals.
54:58
One of the things that we like to do, for Session zero, Heroes, and
55:01
as I mentioned before, this is a new sort of series that we're
55:04
doing. And so the idea that we have here is when we were
55:07
talking before this, you mentioned all the wizards and
55:10
all the magic kind of focus going on with Nightbringer. And I thought,
55:13
well, this is one of the games that we wrote up, and it seems like the
55:16
best one. So if you, if you have that link, do
55:19
you still have that link that I sent on the Word document?
55:22
>> Hartley: Yes.
55:22
>> Skylar: Okay, sweet.
55:23
>> Hartley: The random word generator.
55:25
>> Skylar: Yes. So it's just a random word generator. And the idea here
55:28
is that, you're taking, I'm going to say,
55:31
we can do 10, 10 random words,
55:33
and you take two of those words, put them together, and
55:36
you're creating a spell using those two words. And we'll just
55:39
describe, what we come up with. So, jump in there.
55:42
Feel free to do that. I can start. I
55:45
have o. Okay. This
55:48
is an intense one. So I have detached
55:50
design, which in my mind I imagine
55:53
some very, like, horrific, disturbing
55:56
spell of, like, a person.
55:59
And they cast detached design on a
56:02
person and it separates like a limb or something like that. Like,
56:04
its whole purpose is
56:07
destroying things from whatever their initial
56:10
design was. So there's one of mine.
56:12
>> Hartley: Yeah. So two here are
56:15
volatile productive.
56:16
>> Skylar: Okay.
56:17
>> Hartley: Which I think could put
56:20
someone into that mindset where
56:23
you're listening to a podcasting, you spend three hours cleaning up.
56:26
>> Skylar: Something m. So it could be kind of
56:29
beneficial.
56:29
>> Hartley: Or you write a bunch, and then
56:32
afterwards you look back at it and it's really not the best. But you spent
56:35
like five hours working on it.
56:37
>> Skylar: that zone out situation which could.
56:40
>> Hartley: Be used on an enemy
56:43
to make them
56:46
stop focusing on the battle.
56:47
>> Skylar: Yeah, I like that. I like that
56:50
a lot. let's see, another one that I just got.
56:53
it's just lucky sugar. and
56:56
the idea is that you use it to enchant explicitly
56:59
sugar, which means you have to be carrying a bag
57:02
or some receptacle of sugar around with you. and you're
57:05
enchanting the sugar so that while you have it on your person,
57:08
you can scatter it on something as if it were like some kind
57:11
of pixie dust. And it would have luck.
57:13
>> Hartley: So, like, beneficial pocket sample.
57:15
>> Skylar: Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly. maybe that
57:18
gives you advantage on a roll or maybe that gives you a
57:21
bonus to a roll or something along those lines. Whatever the case, it
57:24
is lucky sugar.
57:26
>> Hartley: I got Aquatic Veil.
57:28
>> Skylar: Oh, that sounds cool.
57:29
>> Hartley: Would be used in some sorts of underwater
57:32
battles against monsters and stuff. Yeah, there
57:35
are like sharks and I believe a few other
57:37
species. They can sense
57:40
electricity through the water and whatever. And that's what they used
57:43
to track a lot of prey. And I could be wrong on the
57:46
exact word.
57:47
>> Skylar: Sure.
57:47
>> Hartley: And so they don't need to see or smell you to be able to
57:50
find you. And I think that might
57:53
block that and
57:56
kind of make you invisible to
57:58
them. Or if you're playing in a more sci fi
58:01
ish, it could also block radar o
58:05
ways of tracking you underwater.
58:07
>> Skylar: Nice, nice. Go incognito
58:09
mode. Very cool. my last
58:12
one that I've got here is a, ah,
58:15
mysterious table. It's very similar to
58:18
Unseen Servant, but instead of an unseen like
58:21
humanoid person that's doing little tasks for you,
58:24
it is an unseen table. It is an invisible table.
58:27
It's a very magician based spell. Right. Just setting
58:30
things there that make it look like they're floating. you can move
58:33
the table around so then obviously anything on the table moves.
58:36
It's not like, what is it? Floating disck where it can
58:38
hold like a ridiculous amount of weight. It's a wooden table. It
58:41
only holds whatever a wooden table could hold. And a very rickety
58:44
wooden table at that. But for kind of doing
58:47
some interesting illusory kind of stuff.
58:49
>> Hartley: could be kind of fun, I got. Which could
58:52
be catastrophic in some sort of u,
58:55
high fantasy monarchy.
58:56
>> Skylar: Oh, fantastic.
58:57
>> Hartley: destroy government.
58:58
>> Skylar: Holy cow. The whole thing. Wow.
59:02
>> Hartley: A high power spell that automatically
59:05
instates you as the king.
59:06
>> Skylar: Oh my gosh. That is a. That's got to
59:09
be, you know, talking to D and D terms. That's a ninth level spell
59:12
right there. That's got to be some
59:14
instantly just I'm the king now. I like it.
59:17
I like it. Awesome. Well, that's battle wizards. Like I said,
59:20
just kind of a fun short game. hey, maybe it gives you some ideas
59:23
for, some spells that, you can add in a Nightbringer. Who knows?
59:26
But Hartley, I really want to say a huge thank you
59:29
for being on the show, for joining us, for sharing your insight and
59:32
for sharing your expertise within the world of tabletop role playing
59:35
games and for telling us all about the amazing
59:37
upcoming, TTRPG that is Nightbring.
59:40
>> Hartley: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
59:42
>> Skylar: Absolutely. And of course, if you're listening once
59:44
again, be sure to check out Knbringer, head over to Hartley
59:47
uh.com or of course we'll have links
59:50
as well to make sure that you get to the right place. I'll see you guys
59:53
next time.
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