Latest / Before You Speak / Before You Speak | Episode 33 | Are All Republicans MAGA?

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Before You Speak | Episode 33 | Are All Republicans MAGA? · Before You Speak

• Derek Peterson: What's up y'all? Welcome back to the Before You Speak podcast. I am your host, Derek Peterson, ⁓ just processing the fire hose of my newsfeed with this guy over here. Elwyn: What's up everybody, I am Elwin and the fire hose of my newsfeed is filled with orange clad soccer fans doing the orange fan walk going, no links, no links to the left and right and just following that orange truck around the street. It's fucking amazing. Derek Peterson: But Was that Belgium? Elwyn: No, that's the Netherlands, man. That's where my mom's from. Helmton. It's a nice run on this podcast, Derek Peterson: Netherland, Nether Well the Belgium isn't Belgium orange too. Yeah. ⁓ I mean, look, I love World Cup, but I don't watch soccer at all unless until World until World Cup. And so like I'm getting caught up on everybody at the moment. I have no idea who's good. I will say for the first time watching the US men play, that is the first time I've ever watched us and been like, ⁓ we are actually the better team. Like we've won we've won World Cup games before, but I you the Elwyn: Mm-hmm. Me neither. Derek Peterson: You know how like it's like me watching the Detroit Lions play. I'm always like, We're gonna get fucking toasted. Like there's we have no shot. Like at some point this is all gonna fall apart. ⁓ and watching our men's World Cup team historically felt like that. This one was different. Like we got some dudes. Like there's a like legitimately looked like the better team, which was shocking to me 'cause Paraguay is all n like it's a smaller country, but they're a s th it's a soccer country. Elwyn: of seven. Derek Peterson: So Elwyn: I don't know what I'm what I'm really enjoying about this year's World Cup is the the fans traveling on moss from other countries and just like taking over streets or last night a bunch of Scottish fans went to Fenway Park and You know, there's like 300 Scottish football fans in Fenway Park screaming Scottish football chants all through the stadium and you know They play I Would Walk 500 Miles like during the commercial breaks in between innings at Fenway and they just kept singing it and kept seeing it while the game's going on that the clip is from the broadcast and you absolutely Hear like somebody just hit a home run. That's how loud it is with the Scottish fans. Just still singing that song I love it and the the Dutch fans with their fan walk behind the bus just Taking over streets. It's really really cool. I hope we don't fuck it up. I hope somehow Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: You know, if the Dutch go far in this tournament, they somehow we don't find a way to like fuck that up. I feel we will though. Derek Peterson: The ⁓ well just like ⁓ we fucked up UFC on the we decided to ⁓ we did ⁓ I actually watched UFC a long time. There was a ⁓ when ⁓ BJ Penn Anderson Silva and even when Brock Lesnar ⁓ got into it, ⁓ actually enjoyed ⁓ UFC for a while. The problem is that sport is so hard to follow because when somebody gets knocked out in UFC ⁓ you you have a propensity. So, like the human body has a propensity to to protect itself. And so in boxing and and any combat sport, once you've been knocked out, your body will naturally go out faster. So, like you will it takes less to get knocked out a second and third time. And so once it happens, a lot of these guys' careers like go off the rail really quickly. So I was a fan. It got way too hard to follow because the change over in athletes was way too much. But I mean, dude, this this White House fight was A, the card wasn't very good. And B, like, what are we doing? Like, this is like I mean, our are like I w I saw somebody talking about how like the Roman Empire b like prior just prior to its fall, like had was ushering in all of these ⁓ Colosseum fights and there was like Thousands and thousands of animals that were like ⁓ they f people were fighting tigers and like wild animals and things everybody was just it was just distracting. Distraction while your pocket's being picked by billionaires. That's essentially what it is. And it's interesting that the playbook hasn't changed since then. Elwyn: In the movie, there were a couple of things that were interesting. I didn't watch any of it. The most sort of connection I had with it was listening to the necessary conversation pod and the evolution of the MAGA grandmother, I guess, on that, where at the beginning she was like, I don't like this thing being built on the lawn. I don't like it. And then yesterday she was like, oh, yeah, I'm in. It's cool. It's all good. And it's just like. They'll buy whatever he sells type stuff. But you know, in the movie Gladiator, there's a scene where the two senators are talking and they're talking about the games that the Joaquin Phoenix, the Commodus is putting on. And they're like, this is just a distraction. And they're like, yep, that's what you do. You put out a distraction. You give them some shiny, you give the populace some shiny stuff and, you know, hope that they forget about the Epstein files and the war in Iran. and all that stuff. I think that's what it was. mean, it's nakedly political. UFC is nakedly political. You had the fighter on the saying, you know, Michelle Obama is a man at the end of it. You know, the other funny, the other interesting thing though was like the amount of people who were saying, hey, are we going to see another assassination attempt at this thing? Is this just a setup for another assassination attempt? Which of course we did not see except in the news today. The FBI, Cash Patel is saying that they're investigating that they foiled an assassination attempt at the fight. it's like, guys, yeah, did we? Yeah. ⁓ Derek Peterson: Really? Okay. Did we did did did y'all I don't know if I believe Cash Patel has foiled anything since he's been FBI director. So Elwyn: He has foiled sobriety. He has absolutely stumped sobriety. Derek Peterson: Correct. Meaning like any anything that actually falls in line with what a FBI director should be doing, which is insane. The whole culture around it though, 'cause like, you know, during the last few days, ⁓ during the World Cup, a lot of it's on Fox, and so Fox is running all these UFC ads with Dana White and Ram trucks and like the ad is like Elwyn: Yeah. Derek Peterson: We don't care what other people think about us. We do what we want to do and we take what we need to take and blah blah blah. Like this this kind of like faux masculinity. And it dude, it's such horseshit because like anybody that has to get up and shit on another person to make themselves feel better about themselves is naturally like i my instinct is just you are a weak human being. Like you are a If if you can't if if it takes making fun of somebody else, particularly a black female, to make to for you to feel good about yourself, I mean, you know, mentally you're ⁓ three year old. So like I I just don't the whole movement has changed a lot. I think there was a time when like UFC fighting was like as it was coming up, it was a legit form of like combat fighting. And now the sport has just become a cesspool for a bunch of assholes. So which, you know, maybe that's part for the course, but Elwyn: Yeah. I don't know enough about the sport, but I know it's placed as this, the masculinification of somehow the Republican Party, like this idea like you just mentioned about the commercial that, have to through with Pete Hexeth working out, right? And RFK and Pete Hex and Kid Rock working out together. This idea that somehow fighting and combat and working out is this paradigm of masculinity, which like, okay, look, it's good to be, if you're be a man, I think it's good to be strong. I think that's beneficial. I think it's beneficial for women too. But this like vision of masculinity that's all about pummeling other people, shitting on other people, like you just said, you the UFC fits right into that. As far as I know, I don't really, I know nothing about the sport. And then it goes in like with the commercial. Couple months ago, I think it was Dodge had a commercial that was just like, first time I saw it, started laughing out loud because it was like, we're America, we do American things, we are red, white and America, blue America, big America, loud America. I was like, the fuck am I watching? Like they're not even, they're just showing a truck driving over bumps, screaming like America with a fucking bald eagle flying. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: And that's why I'm supposed to buy a Dodge Ram pickup. But they only put that shit on the air because they know it's going to work, right? They panel test all that stuff. Derek Peterson: But it's such a tra it's such a Trey Parker and Matt Stone like play like every time you can just Elwyn: Yeah, Team America, World Police, It's exactly America, fuck yeah! And I just remember actually laughing out loud and I think I rewound it for some people I was with. I was like, did you see this commercial? This is ridiculous, is this what we are? Like, yeah, I guess. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. It is where we are. And the the other part about this and i like it it is worth noting that okay, just because you work out does not mean that you are like better or farther ahead or any of that shit. There is a reason why gym culture got sh gets shit on often and it's because there's a lot of douchebags that are full of themselves in front of a mirror, like that's where they spend the majority of their time. So there's a lot of self-absorbed people in gyms too. So just because you have a nice nice body and work out does not mean that you take care of yourself. So like, or that you're and actually ironically enough, a lot of the people that are in the worst shape use working out as a as a means to punish themselves for their own bad decisions prior to working out. And I know that because I was one of those people for a long time. ⁓ Now I make bad decisions and I and I still don't punish myself with working out. So I'm just getting fatter and weaker every day. But yeah, that's how it goes. Elwyn: But did you make the decision to give $300 billion to Iran and completely capitulate? Derek Peterson: ⁓ I did not, which is what we need to talk about. That's more my bad decisions. Yes. I'm a pepperoni and sausage guy, not let's throw heat three hundred billion dollars towards Iran, which is ⁓ walk us through that deal, ⁓ because it's worse than the ⁓ JCPOA, right? Which is what the previous deal was. Yeah. Elwyn: or your bad decisions more like pepperoni or sausage on the pizza. Yeah Equivocally unequivocally so like before going into what I know the point what I've heard the points are the main points like As of this morning as far as I could tell the United States has not like put out their version of what this deal is it's all coming from Iran and I don't know if so. I Don't know why that's probably so they can like market test reaction or something like that But coming from Iran, there's going to be $24 billion in Iranian money that has been frozen that's going to be returned to them, ⁓ likely in stages. I doubt it will go all at once. $300 billion in reconstruction money going to Iran, a bunch of that from ⁓ other Middle Eastern countries like the UAE and Qatar. ⁓ There is going to be a lifting of sanctions. The naval blockade will be lifted on our side. The Straits of Hormuz will be opened up on Iran's side. ⁓ What's going on with the Lebanon part of it, I'm not quite sure, but I'm pretty sure it says something like, hey Israel, stop fighting Lebanon. ⁓ And nothing at all about the enriched uranium that Iran has. And this is like ⁓ the beginning, this is like, all this to buy a 60-day negotiating period on the 30 or 60-day negotiating period on that uranium dust. Like, what are we going to do with that? And what about a more permanent, you what are the financial agreements actually? But, you know, it's, first of all, the JCPOA, the deal that Obama signed that Trump tore up in 2018, that allowed Iran to continue enriching uranium up to a certain level, up to a certain percentage of enriched uranium, which is useful for ⁓ energy generation, think nuclear power plant, but not for nuclear armaments. ⁓ And there were all these ⁓ enforcement mechanisms built in that the IAEA was going to watch it. ⁓ And they kept their end of the bargain. And most of the people that were involved in that deal said, this does not solve every issue, but it buys time. And it was roundly criticized because it didn't solve every issue, because all it was doing was buying time. But at the end of the day, Iran upheld their end of the deal. If you look at a graph of how much highly enriched uranium Iran has, it's flat for the entirety of that deal. And then Trump tears that up in 2018, and it just skyrockets. And all of sudden, Iran is on their path to a nuclear weapon. And now, Iran is saying is like, hey, we will dilute some of our highly enriched uranium back down basically to the JCPOA levels, but we want to keep enriching uranium to JCPOA levels. And we're not giving up. We're not giving up our nuclear program entirely because presumably they want it for energy. This is a country of 80 million people and it's not completely impoverished. They have big cities there. So that's not an unreasonable Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: ask on their part. So it's hard to see the outlines of this deal as anything other than just like a massive, massive, massive capitulation. Like what a mistake this Iran war was. Because if you think about it, that Trump has been with Iran, but let's talk about just the war. ⁓ Straight support moves were open, no issue. The enriched uranium was buried under rubble from the strikes last year. Okay, still buried under rubble under strikes last year. Sanctions were in place. Good sanctions were in place and the regime was in place. Well, the regime is basically still in place and everything else is now more favorable to run. They're going to get more money and they're totally going to keep the tolls in place in the straights of hormones. They're just going to call them like environmental maintenance fees. The ship has to pay to get through. So. We got literally nothing. And Iran got a whole bunch of money for the same regime that we said we were trying to get out. And you can tell this is a bad deal because like the people on the right, the Mark Levin's are like low key freaking out. And from what I've heard, the people in Israel are very, very high key freaking out. They are furious. And in the course of all this, there's a real rift between Trump and Netanyahu now because Netanyahu, you know, he keeps bombing Beirut. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: And Trump and Iran then says, cool, we're going to fucking bomb you. And so Trump is like, stop bombing Beirut. Netanyahu is like, fuck you. And Trump is like, you're a fucking idiot. Like literally Trump has called Netanyahu a fucking dick on the phone by multiple accounts a couple of times now. Because Israel, Netanyahu needs to keep fighting. They need to finish this. Right? They need regime change. Hamas is still in power in Gaza. Whatever is left of Gaza, Hamas is still in power. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: If they've gone through all this and they still have Hezbollah in Lebanon and they still have the regime in Iran, Netanyahu is toast. What did he drag that country through two years for? So, you know, this is the world. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Not just the country, the world. You know, like you know, the the I heard people on Pod Save America today talking about how the oil reserves across the world are are getting increasingly lower and lower, which is why there's this press for this. But I I still have a hard time so All of this was spelled out in Project 2025. A lot of like what was going to happen and I don't I didn't read Project 2025 in full, so I don't know if starting a war was part of Project 2025, but I keep feeling like this administration is a step ahead of us as far as their intentions are going. Like I don't think that how they planned all of this stuff to pan out is actually happening the way they want it to. ⁓ I think this war is bad for them. I think that they thought it would not be as bad as it is, but I still feel like we're missing something. I f I still feel like the Trump family is getting something out of this that we're not paying attention to. It obviously curbed the Epstein files for a while. It curbed a bunch of the other stuff that's that's going on that they're gonna get criticized for. He was able to sue the IRS while all this shit was going on and get basically get a pass for his kids and the for the future. ⁓ as far as like them not being audited being able to be audited. There's just so much stuff going on that I'm like, man, ⁓ the the idi the the idiocy or idi I don't however you would say that how idiocracy of all of this is is crazy. But if you view it fruit through the lens of just selfish assholes, you're like, yeah, there's they're they're they're playing their cards to benefit themselves. So like Elwyn: theocracy. Derek Peterson: Part of me is like this Iran deal. I'm like, okay, what did the Trump family get? They have like some deal with their government, they're probably getting property, ⁓ like luxury property somewhere in Iran. They're probably getting some they're getting some kind of side deal on ⁓ to to push all this through at some point anyway that benefits them and then he'll move on to Cuba or whatever other country he wants to ⁓ blow up and ⁓ try to, you know. And then and get more luxury property. Turn Cuba into the next Palestine. Whatever they're going to whatever they're planning to do is there. It just it's driving me crazy. So Elwyn: I don't think we're missing anything on this one though. I really don't. think it's naked. It's really obvious that the Trumps are going to gain personally from all this. I think everybody kind of looks at it is like, yeah, of course, 300 billion in reconstruction. ⁓ Trump excavating and Trump concrete and Trump rebar and Trump steel and even if it's not, Jared Kushner is already managing the money for everybody, all the... you know, in the years in Qatar and UAE, he's managing all that money already, so he'll get rich through that. I feel like most people are kind of like, yeah, no, this is completely some way to grift. I think the thing that surprised Trump and the right is, I think the thing that surprised Trump is that it didn't go the way he wanted it to ⁓ right away. And then he got bored. And I think the fact that he got bored is what surprised the right. Like I think people continue to make this mistake with Trump to think that he cares about any principle long enough to stay with it beyond how it benefits him or his mood or what he's interested in. And he's never been that way and he's not that way now. So sure, he was all in when things were going boom all over Iran and he could get on and say, we decimated everything blah, blah, blah, but now it's gone on too long and it's dribs and drabs and... The press is really, really bad. he's just like, I mean, he said, I'm not, I'm not interested. I'm not, I'm not really interested in it anymore. ⁓ and I think that surprised people on the right. And I think that surprised people in Israel and it shouldn't surprise anybody. It surprised, think Iran, Iranians, know, diaspora Iranians, like it shouldn't surprise anyone. This is who he is. Derek Peterson: Yep. Yeah, it it it is who he is. And it's it's funny to me because I you know, like you see it I mean you see it in any industry. I see it in my industry all the time. It's like when you see real estate agents where they're clearly out for their own best interest rather than the best interest of their clients, you know, pushing things through, getting like side deals, whatever the shit is, and it just this reeks of all of it and it drives me crazy. But I'm also like getting to the point where I'm like, yeah, I have some fatigue around corruption. I'm like, yeah, is it just all corruption? Like now when people talk about ⁓ Graham Platinum or anything else, I just want to tell him to fuck off. 'Cause I'm like, yeah, I I do not care. I don't care at all. Because like if you if you are if you're try if you're trying to tell me Graham Platiner is a piece of crap, ⁓ and you at all support anybody in the ⁓ in the White House at the moment, yeah. Like you whole like zero your comments mean absolutely nothing to me. Like zero. Yeah. None. So well that kind of leads us into our topic for today, because today we are gonna be talking about ⁓ are all Republicans MAGA? So ⁓ can you be Republican and not be MAGA? Elwyn: Yeah, get the fuck out of here with it. Just get the fuck out of here with it. No. Derek Peterson: Podcast over. Hang it up. Yeah, I'm sure there is. Elwyn: podcast once. Yeah, there a soccer game on? No, I... So... I mean, I guess in a way, but not really, not if you're still voting for all this. You know, he's been in power since 2016. Since at least that time, certainly since 2018, it's been what he has dominated. He's been the sole gravitational pull of everything in the Republican party. Primary challenges, people retiring, everything goes through what Trump feels, what Trump is saying who he's supporting. And if you're still voting for that, then not sorry, you're MAGA. Like, you know, if you if you voted for Thomas Massey, if you voted against Thomas Massie in Kentucky, you are MAGA. Like 100 percent you are not you are no longer Republican at all. So the question is not can you be MAGA and be a Republican? The question is, can you be like an old school Republican like you and I grew up with and not be MAGA and I'm not sure you can not not if you're still voting for it because at the end of the day if you pulled the lever for someone showing my age there with lever pulling if you pulled the lever for someone ⁓ you own you own what that person does until you disavow it until you disown it and You know there's just not enough disowning of it going on there's a whole lot i don't like it i don't like it i don't like it well it can't be a surprise anymore. Are the only thing that's different between twenty twenty six and twenty. Eighteen midterm of the trump term let's say is. We know all this shit we shouldn't be surprised by any of the shit and it's more unhinged so. Yeah like republican voters let's say. Who are like well i don't i don't support. this stuff. Well, you voted for it, right? Like, are you surprised by it? If you are, you're an idiot. And if you're not, then you voted for it. And yeah, you're MAGA. It's interesting, the difference in the last 10 years, what the Republican Party used to be and what it became what it is now. I'll go back even like for me, I'd go back to 20 2008. But like used to be Reagan Republicans, like small government, low taxes. Derek Peterson: Yep. Elwyn: barely assertive foreign policy, promoting democracy around the world, fighting communism, evil empire, all that good stuff, hating on some gays, stumping some Bibles, and passive racism. Now, it's completely wars all the time, unless we don't want wars, in which case, like Ukraine, no wars, like it's completely incoherent public policy, huge government. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: Huge government, $1.5 trillion proposal for the defense budget. We are now taking ownership stakes in publicly traded companies. The size of the government is massive now, way bigger than under, the expansion is way more than under any other Democratic president. Some cuckoo bananas version of Christianity that just preaches hate everything, love nothing. ⁓ and just open racism not passive racism anymore and the evil empire which was russia for fifty years of republicanism they're now our body like dictators bad then good now ⁓ you know big government bad then good now as long as they get a piece of it it's it's like a complete one eighty on a lot of this stuff ⁓ and it makes my head spin Derek Peterson: Mm. You're a thousand percent correct here. I was gonna say, because if you if you went back to two thousand sixteen when all of this started and Trump got voted in, and you take you take Republicans and you fast forward to what's happening today. War in Iran, Trump being friends with Putin, the ⁓ you know, tax breaks for the rich, the ⁓ insane budget that we're they're trying to pass. ⁓ like it you go you fast forward to all this. I I genuinely think that the majority of Republicans at that time would have been like, whoa, no way. Like not that that's like that that's but we're it's like a frog in boiling water, right? It's like we've like all this stuff has been stepped appropriately ⁓ to become a little bit more racist and give rich people a little bit more money and to, you know, hate ⁓ at lump in a few more, you know, minority groups to hate. It just feels like it it's just this slow burn ⁓ with with Republicans, which is not something I you know, I growing up in Utah, everybody was Republican. So like I was very well versed in Republican values. And the I this was not historically I think who most of these people were and now it is. And it now now it's becoming very hard to separate ⁓ Republican and MAGA and if you are MAGA, that means that you are basically just using a political party to to hate other people. Yeah. Elwyn: host. The Republican Party is a host for MAGA ideology. I think that the only thing that I quibble with a little bit is Republicans were always for the rich. I don't think there's any mystery about that. Trickle down economics, the tax policy from Reagan, that was always for the rich. It's just that now it used to be, well, you do this, this policy is for the rich to help the poor. Right? If we cut taxes on the rich, they're going to invest more, they're going to build more factories, there's going to be more economic activity, they're going to spend more money, and it's going to trickle down throughout the economy and raise the whole level of the economy. problem with that is that it doesn't work. Right? Like study after study has been done on trickle-down economics. it's just, it's a lovely theory. And in practice, it simply does not work ever anywhere. So they've always been kind of for the rich. Now I just think they don't really care about the pretense of making it something that helps everybody else. think they're just like, yeah, whatever, we get ours. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Trickle down economics works, Elwyn. You just have to own a yacht company. So you own a yacht company, you get all the you get all the trickle down economics on the if that with that. Or luxury car company, you own like anything that's ⁓ that's that's luxury adjacent. Yeah, I think you're gonna be doing just fine. But the i I remember when I when I married my first wife, ⁓ her father was the CEO of an ⁓ oil company. Elwyn: Yeah. That's right. Derek Peterson: And he was he he told me a few on a few different occasions. He's like, you know, when you're young, you know, you're typically l more liberal, you know, like more socialist. It makes a lot of sense. But once you get to, you know, your fifties, ⁓ fifties and sixties, if you're not more Republican, then you probably didn't make enough money. And I was like, that's probably sounds about right because essentially what it feels like is it's the party of protecting old people. For from keeping as much money as humanly possible and being able to transfer that wealth to their kids while also simultaneously being able to sexually assault children, which is also, I guess, apparently part of the Republican Party now, which is ⁓ it feels like genuinely like be more the more and more stuff c that comes out, I'm like, yeah, like ⁓ Ken Paxton, go fuck yourself for pardoning that g butt. Elwyn: Yeah. But I think, like, think MAGA, I like the idea of it being like the Republican Party is its host body, right? It's just a, it's a, it's virus that needs a host. Because ultimately I think that they have no values at all. ⁓ Their values are whatever Trump says their values should be. It's like the woman on that podcast I mentioned before, she didn't, she, you know, believed in the sanctity of the White House and the White House lawn and she was not a fan of the clog being built up until He was like until she was right and you can hear when you hear people like that talk that they're just Looking for a reason they don't think it's not a question of right or wrong It's a question of give me some justification to support this and I do think the Republican Party of old it was founded on on some bedrock political principles And if you had a conversation about foreign policy, you could have a differing opinion of foreign policy. You could have a differing opinion on homeless policy or food stamp policy or, you know, social safety nets and things like that. And look, I don't agree with the stuff that they were saying, but it doesn't matter. There were policy discussions having, being had. Now it's just culture war red meat, trans stuff, gay stuff, racist stuff, like throw that immigration stuff. throw that red meat into the pile, right? And rip off everybody at the same time. And just all you have to do is give your supporters, is give MAGA enough to justify, enough to make an argument, right? Like it used to be Reagan provided amnesty for, you know, like 11 million illegal immigrants, people who were here without papers. That would never happen today. Reagan passed a gun control bill, probably because he got shot, okay? That would never happen now. George Bush spoke about these things in a manner that they would never speak about that now, ever. The idea they would get kicked out of the party. And that's not an overstatement. They would get actually kicked out of the party because they had some principle that didn't align with just the hardline, MAGA. you know statement and i think that started in two thousand eight i think that really got a start when obama got elected and the condol said i've number one goal is to make obama one-term president and you can see the number of bills that got passed start to go down from congress and you could see the filibuster you start to go up dramatically from congress and the goal of that what he said there made the goal your opposition So how do you win in opposition? You just get everybody mad. You prey on fear. You prey on emotion. You don't actually govern. Governance from the opposition party stopped in about 2008. And then in 2010, you had the Tea Party wave come up. And I think that mainstream Republicans, Reagan Republicans, they really missed the boat there. They looked at like Eric Cantor, who was third in line, who was the third most powerful Republican in the House then. He lost a primary challenge. That's unbelievable. for somebody that powerful to lose a primary challenge. They missed that. They just missed the populist anger in their party entirely. So they kind of hand waved it away for a little bit. They were in opposition until 2016 so they could scream about stuff. know, they could, we had the Iraq war still going on. It was easy to be in opposition. But then when they tried to put all the people who were the same as Eric Cantor up, In 2016, the Jeb Bushes of the world, the same people who voted Eric Cantor out were like, bro, you didn't understand us the first time. We don't want that shit. We want the guy who's we want to blow the whole thing up. And Trump is sitting here saying he's going to blow the whole thing up. And that's what we want. We don't care what the collateral damage is at all. And Trump saw that. And the mainstream Republicans didn't. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: And that's why you have JD Vance, Lindsey Graham, and all these guys on record. Lindsey Graham was like, if we elect Trump, we're going to get destroyed and we're going to deserve it, was his statement in 2016. ⁓ Now he's just a bootlicker. Derek Peterson: Yep. Yeah. So I mean we went from like Republicans basically believing in free markets, free trade, lower taxes, strong military, ⁓ international alliances, immigration reform. They were I've always been against it, and more social conservatism to America first, ⁓ immigration restrictions, economic nationalism, skeptic skepticism of global institutions in general, ⁓ trade protections and tariffs, ⁓ cultural populism and the distrust basically the just attack and distrust of media. And so that that shift basically like what what initiated that? What got us? What started MAGA? Elwyn: I mean, Trump, I mean, it was his slogan, right? Make America great again. I think it has to be that. And then with... Derek Peterson: But do you think it ⁓ I guess I was I I I wanted to go a little bit back further and I and I want your I want to like I want to hear you like riff on this for a second because I think there was a lot going on and you've you've been kind of inching towards it thus far, but like we had a our first black president in Bar Barack Obama, and then we we see ⁓ I mean to be honest for me that was I I was living I was not in Texas during that time for the majority of it. Towards the tail end I was. I was in California and to some degree there was this essence of kind of unity around it and probably because of where I was living more than anything else, maybe a little bit isolated from ⁓ red states and what was actually going on. ⁓ and then, you know, early two thousand two thousand ten's Citizens United gets passed and two thousand sixteen we have the angriest, ⁓ most disruptive president in history gets elected. Elwyn: Yeah, think the, so if I were gonna go back, take your, what I think your bait might be for a second. Yeah, even in the campaign of ⁓ Obama's campaign against McCain, against John McCain, it's a really interesting starting point to discuss this because very famously you had John McCain at a rally ⁓ in like October, September, October of that year. And someone asked him a question about Obama and they're like shitting on him. They don't wanna say he's an Arab. he's like, McCain says, no, I know Obama. He and I disagree on policy issues, but I believe he's a good man. I believe he's a family man. I believe he loves this country. And the woman was just, and the crowd were just not having it. They were like, no, he's an Arab. He's an Arab and the crowd is shouting, almost shouting down McCain with that. you know, it's no, it's not a coincidence. You had Sarah Palin running with McCain who's on the stump screaming about real America, real Americans know that Obama is a Muslim in hiding, you know, real America. And you start to create this divide of, ⁓ real America versus everybody else. And that was set already. That mold was in the oven when Obama actually got elected in November 2008. And then you had this unifying sense amongst the people who voted for Obama. I don't think it was any unifying sense if you voted for McCain. And tear that, like top that off with a dash of good old fashioned racism, like Frank's hot sauce racism version. ⁓ Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: And you have this very, very us versus them mentality beginning. And I'm sure this is all reductive. I'm sure it was present on the Democrat side when Bush was president, but I don't remember feeling it when Kerry ran in 2004. I remember that being all about the Iraq war primarily. we had my in-laws are Trump fans. They're MAGA through and through and always have been. And I remember in 2000, 8 must have been around the holidays, know, they were talking about the election and they said that they saw somebody on TV after the election, a black woman, they were like, and she was saying we won, we won. And they were offended by the use of the word we there in that sentence. Like what's we? I don't think we won. Right. We didn't. What did we win? Your guy won. That's that's all just like the black people feeling like black people ish and like. Derek Peterson: Hm. Elwyn: trying to rise up and make this all about that and all that. And I was like, man, like you have to look at a statement like that and chill the fuck out. Like, yeah, we won. Yeah, no, we can't be angry at people for feeling that way after Obama got elected at all, I don't think. So I think right around then is kind of when the seeds started to be planted. But I think what Trump did with MAGA was he just Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: hollowed out the core of the Republican Party and made it completely devoid of any value of any substance politically, right? So you went through that kind of list of things like economic nationalism and low taxes and, you know, government, blah, blah, all that stuff. think a lot so much that stuff existed like that was the policy of. Reagan style Republicans. It was healthy on economic nationalism and invest here, although NAFTA was there. ⁓ I think that was Clinton, so sorry. ⁓ But what he did was talk about it and then create an environment where he was going to do whatever he wanted, where it could be the exact opposite of what he had just spoken about and people would believe him and people wouldn't care. that it was a total 180 on the values that they used to hold in their political ⁓ outlook. A good example of how bad it is is like he said last week, Trump said last week ⁓ when the inflation numbers came out, he was like, I love inflation. I've looked at the inflation numbers, I love it. And you know why? Because we've been stealing fucking oil from Iran and you don't know it and they don't know it until I just said it right now. I just made this thing up and now it's true. But I love inflation. He's saying, love inflation. That's pretty bad politically. So he goes on Fox the next day and he's like, no, that's not what they took this all out of context. They took this all out of context. That's not what I love that the numbers weren't higher than everybody thought they were going to be, even though we're at war. Like that's a win that they weren't worse. And all of sudden everyone's like, great. It's a win that it wasn't worse. And like, there's no. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: core value to hold the feet to the fire on the very basic principle that inflation is bad. Like, you know, no, bro, why'd you say it? Why'd you say it? What are you going to do about the inflation? I don't care how you're covering your ass on the statement. What are you going to do about it? Right. Why are we at war with Iran? Why are you investing? Why are you taking a 10 % ownership stake in Intel? That's government ownership of a private company, a public company, but like that's government ownership in. capitalist system that's anathema to these things, right? Derek Peterson: Mum but mom Donnie dude. He's the ⁓ No, that's that's what's hilarious about all this is that you know the shit that they're criticizing the president's doing ⁓ just not to benefit the people. So you're you're just like it's it blows my mind. The the hypocrisy is hilarious. Elwyn: But Lombardy is running on it. Lombardy is... That's I'm down here by the way, is going to have a hundred percent approval rating next week in New York City. Derek Peterson: ⁓ bro, that dude is he's great he's destroyed. The fact that the Knicks won the championship while he was there also is I mean, that's enshrined in New York history from na now moving forward. But so like okay, so we've kind of like built this a little bit of this timeline for watching MAGA like you know, like watching the values of the Republican Party basically like dissolved during the Obama administration. I think to be honest, it what it felt like was happening was that the the fact that we had a black president and I I know this is controversial, but like it feels like what happened was enough people were mad enough about the fact that we had a black president that it was like we just need somebody that is going to openly support this not happening again and basically start the culture war that they wanted to really have. In my opinion, that's kind of what it felt like happened. And I didn't feel that when I was in LA because I lived in LA. Then when I moved to Texas, I'm like, ⁓ this is a you know, the first time that I went anywhere and it was like not my president, you know, like that type of ⁓ rhetoric. Texas beaches are the the worst when it comes to flag flying. If you ever wanna see you ever wanna just walk down a stroll down a beach and Elwyn: I'll pick up trucks with fucking 32 flags flying in them from them. Derek Peterson: Thirty two flags that you're s you're just like, all right, there's a collection of which is why when we go to the beach we bring all of our ⁓ pride flags, even though none of us are actually none none of us are actually gay or lesbian or trans. We still ⁓ we're we're we just like to poke the bear a little bit. But ⁓ you know like okay so Elwyn: I don't think that's controversial what you just said. I know, I think it's just that people who feel that way don't want to admit that they feel that way. if you just look at the arc of history, it's completely obvious. We elected a black president and this country's backlash, the pendulum swung so hard against diversity and equality and respect for others. How can it possibly be anything else? But you have to really come up through some mental gymnastics. What about Obama's economic policy was so horrifying to Republicans? I have no idea. I don't even know what his economic policy was. What about health care is so... Derek Peterson: Free yeah, g good health care, like health care that's affordable for everybody. Elwyn: Which was a Mitt Romney Massachusetts plan. was a Republican, that plan was written, Obamacare was originally written by the Heritage Foundation for Massachusetts. It's a Republican plan, right? So what was so horrible about that? What was so horrible about gay marriage in the Supreme Court? Nothing. It was that there was a black guy in charge doing it and that they had to look at him and they had to watch him look. think Obama could have been better on a lot of things. But I also think that he was a good president, and I think that he cared deeply for people. I think that he had a deep, deep, deep sense of empathy. And I think that they had to look at him, speak well and carefully and care for people, but also do it maybe in a black church after the Ebenezer church shooting. you know, go to Atlanta and speak eloquently in that environment. And I think it just fucking fried brains all around this country. And they have not recovered because while their brains were frying, everybody like you and I saw their brains frying and like, bro, your brains are frying right now. You, you good? And they're like, yeah, we're fucking fine. Don't tell me my brain is frying. I'm doing fine. Like, no, I see it. I smell it. Your, your brain is frying and we just never recovered. mean, Trump mean, Trump It's well known now that Trump ran for president because Obama made fun of him at the White House Correspondence Dinner. That that, that that is what got him to be like, fuck you. I'm going to run and I'm going to be the president that takes oval office after Obama. It's well known now that Trump ran for president because Obama made fun of him at the White House Correspondence Dinner. That that, that that is what got him to be like, fuck you. I'm going to run and I'm going to be the president that takes oval office after Obama. That's it. Like, yeah. Yeah. No, Trump was sitting, Trump was sitting there and Obama made fun of him. Derek Peterson: I had I did not know that. But this it all makes sense. So really this is all Obama Obama's fault. God damn it, Obama. I'm so mad at you now. ⁓ if it's all of this could have been prevented if he had just not said shit, you know? Alright. The but like Elwyn: I didn't. Yeah. So I think Trump tapped into the one value that was kind of shared, right? Which was, we're white, we're primarily in the South. We kind of think the Confederate flag looks pretty cool. We like our trucks and our guns. you know, Trump was like, great, I can talk to that. I can sell to those people because I also hate Obama. Right. I think he wasn't born in the United States. I wanted to see his birth certificate. spent years talking about that stuff. And I think he just knew this will get me elected and old school Republicans watched him and they were like, shit, this guy has no principles or values whatsoever, but I can't vote for Hillary. So I'm going to vote for him. And that's where we get back to that original question. Like, can I forgive someone for voting for Trump? And I've forgiven Reagan Republican for voting for Trump once. Yeah, I can. Right. They tried to put Paul Ryan around him and, you know, all these other people that were around him in his first term to try and mitigate him. But when you get to 2020 and 2024, can I, you know, forgive? Can I give any Republican the out of saying, well, I'm not really MAGA if you voted for him in either 2020 or 2024? No, sorry dude, like he ran, that was the platform he ran on, that's the party he was running. You just can't bring yourself to make the split. But don't, don't, don't cop out on it. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, the the Republican Party of old that believed in less taxes, pro-business, pro-military, ⁓ like that was there were policies and things that I aligned with with that party. Like there were things that I was like, yeah, I there there was moments in time that I believed that when there was a need to be met, you allowed the private sector to do it and getting big government involved was not the solution. Having a government program for everything wasn't the the the path forward. I I idealistically ⁓ believe that. And then, you know, that that's just shifted so much. ⁓ it's it's non-existent. The party that of before yeah, it just ⁓ there's like it's not there. And ⁓ like the path forward at this point is just seems so hard to find a way to get to a place where we're actually discussing and debating policy because what it feels like is happening now is it's just ⁓ Elwyn: That's what I was going say. Derek Peterson: ⁓ he said she said of the worst shit. It's the we're we're not we're dissecting people's personal lives over like, you know, the the most terrible things because and that's what our political system has become. Is it's like well this guy did this and this guy did that and it's well okay but do does anybody actually stand for the American people anymore? I I would love to see a Democrat get into office that has the same level of of willingness to just push and bend and break the shit that needs to be broken, but for the American people, not for his family and personal gain. Like if that that is the dream, right? Elwyn: and And what I think that what needs to be bent and pushed and broken is not even policy. It's the existing scaffolding around the system. I mean, and will the Democrats do that? I don't know. Like, we even have this same conversation about like the broader Democratic Party? I don't know, because I'm not sure I know what they stand for as a unit right now. And I'm also not quite sure what the Republican stands for. actually scratched that. I'm quite certain what the Republican Party stands for. They stand for their guy. But there's no policy that I know that they stand for, unless it's like culture or crap, where they stand for hating on trans people. Derek Peterson: No, but they'll they'll they'll throw whatever policy out the window that like we and we've seen it repeatedly. ⁓ we we no new wars. We don't believe in wars, we believe in, you know, keeping our troops home and safe and making America great again. ⁓ and then as soon as Trump goes to war it's like, Yeah, war And you're like, Okay like Elwyn: Yeah. And the interesting thing is that it's not even like, it's not even that the party through Congress, through the House and through the Senate is like, affirmatively torching all they used to believe in. They're doing nothing. Right? They're doing nothing at all. They're just sitting there and towing the line for whatever Trump does. And that's really interesting because it's like, they're not even making an argument. about why they've abdicated the values of the past. They're giving up on them and saying, we don't know what we believe in tomorrow because we haven't heard what Trump has said tomorrow yet. But what we know is that they believe in whatever Trump is gonna say tomorrow. And that's just completely soulless. ⁓ And you can't run a country that way, for sure. ⁓ it will all come crashing down eventually. And that I think is another really big part of the difference where, know, old school Republicans, would legislate, they would put bills up. When was the last time Congress passed a bill that you and I can remember that they didn't have to pass because otherwise the government was going to shut down? I can't remember, aside from like fucking naming post offices, the last meaningful bill or any meaningful bill in Trump's second presidency that they passed. Biden, look, love Biden or hate him, he passed major bills on a bipartisan basis. Major, major bills, right? This one, this Congress, Mike Johnson, what are they doing? They're an empty vessel that Trump is more than happy to fill with whatever garbage is in his demented brain in that moment, in that singular moment, because it's going to change in the next singular moment. Derek Peterson: Yep. So I think we've landed on our answer, which is just yeah. I don't know that the Republican Party and I think we'll we'll probably over the next, you know, three or four weeks, I think dig out some more of this. ⁓ I would like to discuss more the Democrat side of some of this stuff, over the next few weeks as well. But yeah, I I don't think that ⁓ you at the moment that you are you can be a Republican and not MAGA. ⁓ unless you've completely detached yourself from this and have just decided you are not participating in your and you're not voting anymore, which i in large part I think ⁓ may end up happening in a lot of red states with I think that that's their protest is that it's ⁓ most of those people will never vote for a Democrat, but the one thing that they will do is just not vote at all. So like there is I think that's that's gonna end up being the play, but we'll get more into that in ⁓ go. Elwyn: But you cannot vote for MAGA and then say your and then try to disown it. You vote it, you own it, right? And until you disown it, I don't want to hear it. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. I it I I will fully listen if you can if you can intellectually come come come back at me and be like, Yeah, I disagree with all of this. Like I'm this is not what I voted for. Like you know, I I believe that he was going to change the economy. I believe that he wasn't gonna go to war. I believe that he was gonna do the stuff he said he was gonna do, and now I'm out. I can get behind that. But if you ⁓ are still at all entangled in all of this, like, yeah. N you're not a Republican, you're MAGA. And let's just call it what it is. So, ⁓ who we telling to shut the fuck up today, Ellen? Elwyn: So I think we're going to go with either Wemba Nyama or Spurs fans, one or the other. I'm going to go with Spurs fans, even though I know a couple, because what a disgraceful showing by them. ⁓ Like, your team is... Derek Peterson: Bro, are you t I do okay. Well I'll I'm gonna hear you out on this, but I I may ha I may have a rebuttal on this. Elwyn: You're a spurs fan. Yeah, no, I forgot you're a spurs fan. And I'm going to tell you, this is going to be fun. OK, your team is in the goddamn NBA finals and the building is 30 % the other team in games, other teams fans in games one and two. And it's so bad for games five that game five, the ticket master has to stop selling tickets out to people outside of 150 mile radius, because otherwise it's going to be basically a home game for the Knicks. Get the fuck out of here. Like you show up to support your team. And I know the argument. It's so expensive. Yeah. You know what else is expensive? Fucking flying to San Antonio and being in a hotel for a couple of days and renting a car and eating out for a couple of days. Still really expensive. Okay. Just. I don't understand the Spurs fan base watching this whole thing. And I'm glad that my. Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: I watched game four, of course, like most people, woke up the next day and I was like, oh, I'm a dick because I feel like Spurs fans needed that. They needed the heart ripped out of your chest loss, the one that history talks about. When there's top five lists, your team is on that list. You need that loss. And the Spurs fans... Derek Peterson: ⁓ yeah. Elwyn: The Spurs have had like, they had a great run with Duncan Parker. They had then a couple of years bad and they had what 2014 they won again. Then they kind of fell off or shitty for a couple of years. And then they get the cosmic lottery of Wemba Nyama in the draft and followed by Harper and Castle. Like there's no suffering. There's no suffering. I'm a fucking Mets fan. OK, like I know red. I grew up around Red Sox fans like you have to suffer. And when you suffer, you know what happens? You find $1,500 for that ticket. I promise you, if the Mets make the World Series this year and I can get a ticket for a game for $1,500, there's a very serious conversation being had about me going to that game because I want to do it. And if that game were here, if they were playing the Texas Rangers or the Houston Astros in the World Series, I'm fucking there. I'm there. Period. Doesn't matter. Right? And that's how dispersed fans have to be and they're not and it's just a disgrace. So shut the fuck up for like eight years. Derek Peterson: See, I'm gonna I'm gonna go completely the opposite way because ⁓ if I was a Spurs fan, the biggest fuck you to New York is you buying my seat for enough money for a down payment on a house in San Antonio. I'm like, yeah, and then I'll just watch it at home. But thank you for thank you, Timothy Chalamet, for p paying more than anyone else in San Antonio can afford for my ticket and buying me a new car. Elwyn: Yeah, but you know, you know, it's not Chalamet seat. It's the upper deck seat. It's the seat, you know, 50 yards from the floor in that fucking cavern of a stadium. It's not like the front row seats, whatever. Like that's a different conversation. This is the rank and file. This is the Spurs ticket hold season ticket holders who are putting that shit up on stub hub instead of going to the game. Right. Like, yeah. Derek Peterson: Ferm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, for sure. Yeah. Those are the those are the seats that 'cause those are the seats that you can only get if you are the season ticket holder that you're then turning around and selling. But ⁓ look, I I am not a diehard Spurs fan. I root for the Spurs ⁓ when my team sucks, which my team has never won a championship and probably never will. I'm a Clippers fan, so that's gonna ⁓ it's it's it it's rough sledding for me. So I have to I have to vicariously live through other fans. But Elwyn: Yeah, OK. Derek Peterson: What I will say is is that A, yes, the NBA has a way of ⁓ the draft lottery typically working out in the favor of teams that it it tends to like more than others. ⁓ but B the NBA draft is a is a roll of the dice. There's a lot of first round picks and a number one overall picks that do not pan out. And if you actually go through the draft, if you went back ten years and read the names of the fur top ten picks. ⁓ of each one of those drafts, probably 80% of them, you will have no idea who who the fuck they are. So drafting is not. Elwyn: planting my flag that I'm planting my flag on Wemba Nyama being on that list. Because he's another he was like he's a corollary shut the fuck up. What a disaster. What a disaster. His series was and I know we average like 26 points. But like, bro, he's trying to take guys out. He's trying to take out knees. He's scaling flagrant fouls. He's he missed it three of the biggest shots of his life and he missed every single one of them. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: You know, like, and he was a dick about it. Just a dick about it afterwards. I don't care that he's 22, any of stuff. Like, when but now, my man? Woo! Derek Peterson: So here This is what he's gonna become the most hated player in the NBA for years to come after this. But I I think in general, there's a few things about the NBA that historically are true that I think if you don't watch the NBA, you may not know, which is one playoff experience is a necessity to win a championship because the NBA playoffs are c called completely different than the regular season, and you get the shit kicked out of you. Like they don't call the same foul, like it i they're it's like almost two different sports. in general. So I think Wimbenyama in that first series, those first two series that they that they played, he was getting beat up so bad that he started finally firing back. But this team is so young. And y I mean you're not wrong. Like they're ⁓ they're young and inexperienced and they made it really far. So they go one of two directions. This becomes a team with Harper, ⁓ Castle and Wimby that is like a dominant like ⁓ mainstay or Like it ends up the wheels just come off, ⁓ and it ends up being a shit show. But ⁓ we'll we'll see. Elwyn: In the last eight years, teams that have gotten to the NBA finals and lost, only one of them has made it back to the finals up through today. So it's like, yep, experience matters, but at the same time, making the finals is really hard. And yeah, they're young and I get it, I get all that, but when Vignama lost his shit in this series, he lost his cool in a bad way. There was a clip of him Derek Peterson: ⁓ he did. Elwyn: taking a run at Carl Anthony Towns's knee, which I haven't heard anybody talk about. It makes me wonder if it was like AI. It looked real to me. I got to like look at this where he is just straight going for the knee. And it's like. Derek Peterson: No, there was there was some ugly stuff that happened, but i if you watched some of those early series playoff games, he had some really ugly shit happening to him. Like dudes just I mean, there was ⁓ during that Thunder series and the Minnesota series, dude, they were just like straight up like pushing him in the like they they weren't even they didn't even care if it was a foul and half of ⁓ were still not getting called, but they were just basically beating the shit out of him. So like we'll see. I am curious how this bounces back. If I had to guess, Oklahoma City comes out of the West again next year. And then ⁓ so it's probably gonna be a few years before Wimby makes it back. But the Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle look like the real deal. So we'll we'll see. Yeah, that that's a that's a young team that's gonna be fun to watch. So, well, dude, ⁓ on to next week where we'll kind of continue this series. ⁓ we'll find out ⁓ Elwyn: ⁓ they were great. I thought they were great. Derek Peterson: Are all are all liberals ⁓ supportive of ⁓ trans athletes ⁓ playing in sports? Can you be a liberal and not be supportive of a male trans athlete that's become a female playing in women's sports? That's I guess that's our question for next week. Maybe not. We'll see. Elwyn: Well, I mean, we'll get there. Derek Peterson: We'll get there. Yeah. All right. See y'all next week.