Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #449 We are back from Break with...Motivation "For The Kingdom Of God"; Embracing Divine Love Is The Power To Live A Full Life!

Transcript

#449 We are back from Break with...Motivation "For The Kingdom Of God"; Embracing Divine Love Is The Power To Live A Full Life! · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Podcast production of the John Paul 2 Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rickager, host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and the doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I beg a while to guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet St John Paul II said there's an echo of this story, of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on a proper lens, if I put on a proper lens, we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II in the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back for today's episode.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We are back after a Christmas break.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm here with Linda Piper from Pennsylvania.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Linda, how are you?
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I'm great.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So good to be back, even though we're in the throes of winter weather, aren't we?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Jeff?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We are in the throes of winter weather, but I you know, I'm a, I'm a.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You know I study climate change.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm an expert now on climate change.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And so I predict this.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I predict that it's going to be cold for a little while longer and probably in about eight or nine weeks it's going to start.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: We're going to start feeling global warming.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Somewhere around the middle.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: It sounds likely Sounds likely.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: That's my prediction.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: We'll see if it comes true or not.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: We left off before Christmas and we're picking up here as we continue to reflect upon the topic of celibacy and virginity for the kingdom of heaven, basing ourselves on Matthew 19, verses 10 to 12.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So this is theology of the body, man and woman.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: He created them.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Number 76.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Motivation John Paul called it for the kingdom of heaven in Matthew, verses 10.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Disciples came to him, to Jesus, and said and he's talking about if maybe I'll even go back one verse so he.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting that Jesus is just packing, unpacking that famous verses three through nine that John Paul loves so much from Matthew 19, talking about the beginning and Jesus bringing us back to the beginning.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: What was that model like?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: And now he goes on and says but I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another one, commits adultery.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: What Jesus is getting at he knows we came into a fallen world, but he's not going to limit his conversation to divorce.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And that's what the Pharisees had come up to Jesus to say is that it okay to divorce our wives?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: And Jesus is making the point that in the beginning it was not so.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, we live in a fallen world.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: But in the beginning it was not so, and now he's going to take it further.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: The disciples said, well, if this is the case of a man and his wife, maybe we shouldn't get married, maybe it's not expedient to marry.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: They're worried about this.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Can they actually stay?
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Can you have the power to stay with one woman, one woman with one man?
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And they're worried.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: They said, well, of course we have to divorce our wives if we don't get along right.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: But Jesus doesn't go along with that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And he said to them not all man can can receive this preset, but only those to whom it's given.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And he's talking about celibacy, celibacy for the kingdom.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: And so here's I think it's really important, linda, to talk about this today and you say well, what is celibacy and virginity for the kingdom got to do with me, and it has to do a lot with us, because what Jesus is talking about here is power.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You know, jesus didn't come for sin management, he came to give us power, but not only to overcome passions and desires, because he gave us those passions and desires.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: But he says I want you to direct those passions and desires for infinite life, infinite love, to ultimately to me, to Jesus, who came in to redeem us and to save us.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And this is what's so important today in this pornographic culture that sex has become this idol that we worship.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with sex.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: God created it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: He thinks it's beautiful, but he's just saying what is that?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: What is that sign?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: That sign is pointing right to me the eternal bridegroom and the eternal life that you're going to have as in union and communion with the Trinity.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And so we have to cross this bridge today, linda, in this podcast, and talk about these things and talk about the power.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Again, I want to focus on the power, because people need this.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: We have such a broken world today.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: We're not staying in relationships, we're getting divorced, we're having children out of wedlock, we're having abortions, all these things, blah, blah, blah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: It's because we've rejected God, we've rejected the power, we don't believe that Christ will actually fill us, so we don't even try.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: We walk away from it and, as people will walk away from God.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: You walk away from the truth of love, you walk away from the ability to choose the good, which is to be a gift to another person, and this is what Jesus is going to come to.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I will fill you so that you can become a gift to your spouse, to your neighbor, and you can also just skip this earthly marriage, go right to the heavenly marriage.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Aim yourself at me and then be a gift to everyone that you see around you.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: In other words, you won't have a husband, won't have a wife, a wife won't have a husband.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: You won't have your own children, but everybody becomes a child to you.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Everybody becomes this.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Chance then that I could bring the gospel, bring this love story into the world, but only a few are going to be called to this, and if you do, you choose this for the kingdom of heaven.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Nobody forces this on anybody.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: This is a choice that you have to make, and if you do make it, I will be there and fill you full of grace.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: A couple of things come to mind.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: The celibacy for the kingdom will think Jesus's task at this point is announcing the kingdom.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: You know this is something that in the Old Testament times, you know they had the Torah and they were basing everything on that.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: But he is making all things new, right, he's announcing the kingdom and in this audience, pope John Paul states that this is for the kingdom, it's a choice, but it's also a privileged way to achieve the kingdom.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: That it's a novelty compared to the Old Testament tradition in which having children, you know, that great promise to Abraham that generations and generations would flow from that was what was on their mind.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: And so I'm thinking all right, marriage and our task in marriage with our spouse, in being that gift to each other, is also a way to achieve the kingdom.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: That's our goal right, to get to our spouse, to heaven.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: But the Pope does point out that, because of that being made male and female, that perennial attraction, the ordinary path or way is through marriage.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: And so there's, it's fundamental, and he's making the distinction that he says Christ is trying to help understand that, yes, this is a choice and it's very hard to understand, except for those to whom it's been given to understand.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And so we find ourselves in our culture, kind of a parallel thing here, where even to this day, 2000 years later, it is hard for us to understand.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: But if we put it within the context of what is the ultimate goal for every single one of us, it is the kingdom of heaven, and so we there's it would become obvious that there isn't just one way.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Although marriage and procreation is the fundamental, ordinary way, celebusy for the kingdom is, we're being told by the Pope a particular way and out of the ordinary.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And so we need to begin there, I think understanding that, yes, it is something out of the ordinary, but a beautiful path to the kingdom.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we see the priests that I know certainly the saints and mystics through time but the priests that I know, the religious that I know that have really accepted this, the young nuns that I know, they are really fulfilled.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: It's amazing power there.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: You know that Jesus didn't come again for sin management.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: He came with power and this is important to every single person because, at the end, no person was ever made to totally fulfill you and I think we put too much weight on these people, even young people.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be giving a talk for engaged couples coming up and I give multiple talks through the year for engaged couples.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It's very important for them to understand that that that person that they're with, there to be a gift to one another, to be supportive to one another, to pour themselves out to another person, not to use that person, not to try to to fill your infinite desires with a finite person.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So, as we approach a relationship like that, what does that mean?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: That means we, together, as a couple, we aim in prayer.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: We, you know, we aim to see each other through the eyes of Christ, through the power of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: This is true love, where we can pour ourselves out to one another and we cannot give what we don't have.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So first we have to go to the well, don't we?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: First we have to go to that vision of heaven.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: We have to open ourselves up to that vision in prayer and the sacraments we have to receive that, and my spouse has to receive that.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Then, in our love every day and in our love making even, we are pouring that grace out to one another, actually in a sacramental sign, but it's always pointing to the union and communion that we have with God.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: It's pointing to Trinitarian love.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And this is what's hard for people to understand sometime that that sign of marriage, this eternal exchange of love between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, is expressed sacramentally in a man or woman and a child, and so these are connected.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Always the problem we have is the disconnection right.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: We're like cut flowers.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: We're trying to find fulfillment, marriage without the source of love itself.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And Jesus does something very important here.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: He says not only am I the source of love that you can tap into for each other in marriage, but you can actually give up this earthly marriage, aim right toward heaven and I will fill you enough that you can turn to people.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: You'll be free from marriage and children.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Not that all of us are called to do that, but if you are called, you become a sign to people, very important.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: This is a sign to people that shows them that I will fill you.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I will fill you so that when married couples look to that priest or that religious sister, they say, wow, yeah, that's really true.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I have to really be cognizant of going to the source being filled so that my marriage itself can flourish.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Right, oh, so important that sign is.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Just we can't do without it.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It's so important and it's a testimony to us that is anticipating that future resurrection.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You know we have talked many times, jack, about when we look at the cross.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: We have to open our hearts to that mystery and to that redemption, and when we do that, that's when the power of Christ will flow into us.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And I think I've traditionally in my mind thought of that power as grace.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: You know it is the grace, both the actual grace, the sanctifying grace flowing into me, that you know what's the standard definition of grace the participation in the life of God.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Right, and so I would say, if you've been Catholic all your life, you've heard this before, but now it's really become important to understand it at a level of what does it practically mean day to day in my life?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So the priests and the religious continue to be there as a sign for us to understand that it's a daily effort through prayer and all the means that we have the sacraments, getting to mass, praying the rosary, that we participate, we receive the grace and participate in the life of God, because then, as you just said, that is the only way we're gonna be able to go out to others and be that channel of love and grace to them.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: The priests and the religious have chosen to be on that path, where they skip the earthly marriage and continue to be a sign for us of the heavenly marriage.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: In this audience we're also looking at what that means for them and how does that play out in their life.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Traditionally, we've heard that in the priest's case, they're married to the church right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So there is this concept of marriage in the sense that they have given themselves totally to the church and, of course, we are the church right.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So they are every day, every moment, every hour showing us that it is possible to take that grace that is coming from God and being the channel of it for more than just one person or my immediate family.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I see it as such a gift.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I have a dear friend that is a priest and he's such a holy man and I can see in him such peace and calmness every time we talk about some issue that is either something big in the world or something in our own personal lives, and it's almost like the grace becomes palpable through him, his demeanor and what he has to say, and I think it is so wonderful that he chose this vocation, because I know he's like this with everybody that he deals with and it's a constant sign to me.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, linda, you know you kind of we're slipping back and forgetting about that power that Christ has available for you.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Here you are complaining about this issue or that issue, and the grace and the power is there.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So I know I've rambled a little bit here, but I believe that the sign and then the fruitfulness that we have from our religious is just so important to all of us today.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: The saints and the mystics.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: They have much to teach us, especially in this age where social media is constantly noise to us, noise, noise, noise.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: They're always saying to break away from that, to break away from that noise and to connect in prayer.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Prayer is that opening of the heart where we seek, where we ask, where we knock.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But we're seeking, asking and knocking right For God to come into us.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: You mentioned grace.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Is this participation in the life of God?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Well, christ actually gives us the Holy Spirit.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: So if people understand this, we're actually the Holy Spirit is dwelling within us.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So when we are opening up our hearts, the Holy Spirit's right here.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: God doesn't wanna make this hard for us, but we have to find that time, that silence, because we have to be able to focus on that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Prayer is not one of these half-hearted things.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Talk about half-hearted.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Christ is always after.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: God is always after your heart, always speaking about the heart over and over and over.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And when he say half-hearted right, I'm giving my heart to my wife Well, not really, because I'm also looking at my phone and I'm looking at the ballgame on TV.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: You know, at some point you need to bond.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: And in order to bond, in order to find a closeness of two human hearts, you need to be able to really put those phones away and not be distracted.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with God.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: In order to really get into union and communion with God, I'm gonna have to find times of silence and prayer in the sacraments.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: So you can see, today, this post-sexual revolution, post-christianity.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Is it any wonder, linda, that we live in a pornographic culture?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: In fact, the Greek pornonea translated unchastity.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: That's what it's.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You know that word, pornography comes from unchastity not being chased, not being, not looking at my spouse, not looking at other people as a gift, that I wanna be a gift to them, that I wanna bring this grace into them, but I wanna use them.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I wanna feel myself not in a, not in a good way, right, I wanna use them instead of seeing them.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So we've normalized the fall and so we suffer from this threefold concupiscence.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: The threefold concupiscence is there.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: It's real.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: If you don't accept this grace that we're talking about here, then you are a body and a soul living like a cut flower, and just the reality is your default position when we come into the world.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Your default position, without baptism, without grace, is sin and death.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: That that's really it, and if anybody Wants to argue with me, just wait long enough and you're gonna find out.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: You're gonna find sin in your life if you pay attention, but for death for sure it's unmistakable.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: We're going somewhere and what we're talking about here, linda, is that eternity doesn't mean tomorrow.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Eternity means forever.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: We were always invited to step into eternal life the moment we are born.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Jack, something important I think we need to state is that Even if you do accept this grace and you're you're living this path, you're still going to be vulnerable to the threefold concupiscence, but you now have some weapons, or tools, if you will, to fight it off more.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't just automatically happen that I accept the grace and then I'm.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: You know, life is Bolacharies or you're still going to have problems, still going to have issues in your marriage, in that relationship, but you now have the ability, through the grace and through prayer, to Deal with it in a way that is is going to be the best for Both persons in drought.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point, then, and to remember that, whatever those obstacles are so, so you're going to feel this pull, this drag of the threefold concupiscence.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: We came into a fallen world.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: The principalities and powers the same Paul would say are still here.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: They're alive and well.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: The demons are flying around and they're alive and well and they, they, love to attack you, but crisis overcomes sin and death.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: So those temptations, again, are not a sin.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: We're going to be dragged down all the time.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So, unfortunately for us, you, you can't.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: You know you can't be not vigilant, you're going to have to be vigilant.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And so this gets back to our earlier thoughts, linda, where we said that you have to find silence, you have to find prayer.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: If you're not vigilant, if I even skip a couple of days, it's amazing how this can come back into us.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: This threefold concupiscence can start to draw us down.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I mentioned to you, right before we came on, that I'm just finishing a two-day fast and it's just coffee and water, not really difficult.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been doing this for fasting for a long time.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I have a brother of mine that I just mentioned to you and I'm not suggesting this to anybody.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Go see your doctor, you know don't take it for me but he does once a month, he does four day fasts and it's just coffee and water and he's gotten very good at it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: He actually looks forward to it and it's this way to detach.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: It's a way to detach, it's it's.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: It's if you're healthy and you do it properly and you understand that the process going on in your body, you actually detox your whole system.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: But it becomes this time of prayer and detoxing not just from, you know, alcohol or or nicotine or whatever your thing is.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: It's a detox from social media.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It's a detox, it's all your habits, so that I can refocus on God.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Very, very important to do when we submit the sinfulness of our own humanity to that power flowing from the mystery of the cross, the mystery of the redemption.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: This is what we do when we fast, when we pray, and this is a power that that I guess there's no other way to say it.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: But you need to enter into the story.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: You need to get down on your knees and just Say, yes, I want this, I want the power, and so, again, I just love that first thing in the morning.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Don't look at that stupid little phone.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Get down on your knees and say thy will be done.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Come into my life, give me this day, you know, and so that's the power.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: You're asking for it and you're willing to sacrifice a little bit.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You become a person of love, you enter into prayer and then you have to fast.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Today you have to fast, and what does that mean?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean just food.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: That could be fasting from a television, that could be fasting from the internet or noise, whatever it takes, whatever you think is is attaching to you.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: This is that three-fold concupacence.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: You need to detach and know that we're just passing through this life.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's so important understand that because scientific studies now are showing some of the real harms, especially with our young children, constant exposure to the social media causes, you know.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: So we're getting scientific proof, and the detachment from that really makes a difference, even physiologically, in our brains, you know.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So, understanding that the detox, you know, the detachment, is really the important thing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I think once we mentioned that we're always either moving closer to God or moving away from God by everything that we do.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Right, and you could almost see visually in your head how all the time spent on Social media and technology and all these other things that distract us you know pornography being a serious issue coupled with the technology and so forth that you can see that movement away from God and that it's you, that Detachment is what starts that process of getting that movement back towards God.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And then, when I'm in that mode of moving towards God, that's where prayer and sacrifice and all those things actually Take place.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Because you might say, well, what am I doing?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: If I'm not doing that, I have to be doing something right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: So it's very logical, in a sense, of how that can work.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I think the point too about Detachment and fasting from habits that we're having really plays into this idea when we started in our culture, that it's hard for them to understand celibacy because the whole idea of fasting from sexual activity is like that's impossible, right?
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the mindset that we have now.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So if we think about that and we think about issues within marriage I know you do talks on NFP and I'm thinking, wow, if we've never had an experience of this fasting from something, the idea of fasting from sexual Relations probably seems as the top of the list of the most impossible thing to fast from.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And that's because we don't have that deep understanding of what detachment really is all about and what fasting is all about and the graces that we achieve from it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when it comes to our sexuality, you know it's like it's different than anything else.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I know I have to strive to get a degree.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I know that I have to strive to work hard on this job to get an advancement.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I know that I have to strive to build, say, build a house and over buy a house.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: So we understand this.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to marriage, somehow we just enter into it and we think it's just going to happen overnight, and it's not.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: It's actually the opposite.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: It's the most important, hard, most difficult thing, but also the most rewarding thing that you can do.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: You have to sacrifice the point where you're emptying of yourself and you can only do that, from a human nature standpoint, without grace, for so long and you'll be running on an empty tank and then you'll get bitter, you'll get angry, you'll start to take it out on your spouse and or leave, etc.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Etc.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: So you know, christopher West made a good point on this.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: He said this should never be seen through what I would call a 2D lens, which is a lens of just seeing the world.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And that's either I have to repress my sexuality or I indulge it.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: And the difference between he makes the point, a difference between legitimate outlet for concupiscence, on the one hand, meaning marriage.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: People enter into marriage and say, well see, I'm not looking at porn anymore, I'm not cheating on anybody, so this is a legitimate outlet.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Now I can look at my wife and I can lust after my wife.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I can use her body and we use each other's bodies, you know.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But this is not what we're looking for.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: We're not looking to use one another, we're looking to be a gift to one another.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So that's, on one hand, a legitimate outlet.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, too many in the church look at the religious as repressing their sexuality.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm repressing it if I'm a religious person right, which is not healthy and I'm indulging it if I'm married and neither one of those is right.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Christ calls everyone to overcome the domination of lust and that threefold concupiscence through his sacrifice and then our fiat, our fiat to him.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: And what he does is he gives us this living in 3D, where I open my passions and desires.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I don't repress them as a religious, I open them.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I also open them as a married person, so I don't indulge.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So both of them still point to the cross, your earlier comment.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I'm at the foot of the cross and I say, yes, I want that grace.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And so, filled with that grace, I then am filled with the gift of Christ on the cross.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: You think of this child that came into the world to do what?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: He suffered violence.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: He suffered violence, the evil, the violence, the sin of the world.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: To do what?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: To show us what love is to be poured out.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So why would I not accept that love, that love that's just being poured out?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And then I have to emulate him, I have to imitate him and I have to be filled with his grace, with his, with the Holy Spirit, the love between the Father and the Son, and then become a person of love.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: This is not brain surgery, it's a mystery.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: But love itself is a mystery, isn't it?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I remember hearing a homily once, other priests pointing out that you could substitute the word sacrifice for love and you would have basically the same idea.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Particularly, he said you could go into the Bible and where love is used, agape love, you could use the word sacrifice, and that really hit home.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I remember it because it was a long time ago, that that's really true, that our culture thinks love is the warm, fuzzy feelings or whatever, and it has warm, fuzzy feelings.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: right, I mean, let's hope it does, but that's not what love is.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: That's not what love itself is.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: The authentic love God is love.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: That's what we have to remember that God is, the essence of God is love.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: So that sacrifice on the cross is pouring himself out.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: What else could he have done all the way to the last drop of blood?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Now, the difference is, if we think about sacrifice, we think, well, what do I get out of it?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Well, when you, you know, it's the paradox of life when I give myself away, I find myself, I find love you know it'll be returned to you.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: It'll be returned to you and you won't know it until you start to become a gift to others.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: You know, if you give yourself away to others and all you do is look at the world as something that you're going to take, you know you'll feel good for a little while, you'll use people for a little while, but evil will start to approach you.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: You'll become very selfish.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: You'll look at sex as not a sign of God's eternal life and love, but it's something that just gives me pleasure without, without the sign.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing wrong with pleasure.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: God gave us those things but at the end of the day we're going someplace and eternity again starts today, doesn't it?
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Right Bishop Baron talked about.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: When that becomes your focus, you actually imprison yourself in your own little ego.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And look at what has happened with the unhappiness in our culture, the feelings of loneliness you know all the social psychologists.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: People are addressing this and it's become a major problem that we have.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: You know it's about me.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I got to be first, I got to be first, all those things and you're actually entrapping yourself in your own little prison that way and it's just the opposite of becoming a gift.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So we do really need to get this, because our culture is suffering greatly from this.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so kind of just that.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: That pretty much wraps it up.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: The only other thing I would say, linda, is Christ is.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: John Paul said said so often, christ has set us free.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: And what is he set us free?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: He said you always have freedom for something.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And then you have to decide.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: You're all at the tree and you decide do I become a person of love or a person of lust, a person of self giving or a person of grasping and taking?
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And that's really what it comes down to.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So it starts with the freedom to step into union and communion with eternal love himself, the offer of redemption and salvation.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Be filled with that and then become a person of love again.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It gets back to the two great commandments Love God, give him your whole heart and soul and it's always about the heart and then empty that you know.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Give that away.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: And as you give it away, you'll be filled, not only be filled with with what God pours back into you, but with those people that you see around.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: You will return love and and you don't have to look for it you'll receive it over time.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: You know it's a beautiful thing.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: In the very last paragraph of our audience today, the Pope helps us understand something that I think is kind of summarizes what we've talked about and also leads us to our next audience, where he explains that, on the background of the words of Christ, one can assert not only that marriage helps us to understand the continents for the kingdom of heaven, but also that continents itself throws a particular light on marriage viewed in the mystery of creation and redemption.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And so how beautiful it is that they're really two sides of the same coin and they shine light on each other.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And it is as you talked about, christopher West, and you know it isn't just indulging or repression at all and that we're headed to looking at how the beauty of each shed light on each other that leads us all to the kingdom.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: All right, thank you very much, linda.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, thanks for joining us.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to leave you with that.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Talk to you again next week.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Bye, bye.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Bye.