Transcript

Righteous! · Coopers' Code

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How do you welcome to the show? Cooper's code, examines legal
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issue and hits the highlights. So we can all achieve the best
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results for our clients. I'm Mi Cooper and with today's
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guest, Mary, Ann Cooper, lemuria.
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Hello Coopers LLP shareholder and integrative, we will be
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discussing why having the right people in the right seats and a
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firm is so important. Portent for everyone's success
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and happiness here. Right people are folks who share
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the firm's core values and expand the firm's values based
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culture. And the right seats means the
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person's role matches their greatest skills and passions.
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Before we get into today's topic, a few words about Coopers
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LLP, we at Coopers are committed to thought leadership
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development best talent and honing skills, through learning
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practice trial. And the Relentless pursuit of
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justice for consumers with lawyers license, in California,
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Oregon. And Washington were available
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for free, strategic consultation on cases and we accept referrals
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and trial co-counsel opportunities.
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For more information, visit our website at Cooperstown law or
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email us at podcast@biobalancehealth.com
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law. Well, Mary Ann, what are we
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talking about today? Are PRS right people?
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Right seats and once again, we are talking about some Concepts
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that originally from Jim Collins and we want to give credit where
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credit is due. So Jim Collins.
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Ins originally talked about right, people, right seats in
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could too great. And for those who have not read
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any Jim Collins Drilling in the show, notes to his website,
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business consultant rate author has wonderful ideas.
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And if you're interested in this kind of thing, he is a great
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resource in terms of doing some learning indeed.
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I however, was thinking about Richard Scarry, Richard Scarry,
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the Child author and pig will and pig, won't did you read Pig
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will and pig, won't when you're a kid.
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Not that. I recall, I remember it because
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I think my mom read it and she liked to use it because there
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are some very simple exercises that definitely benefit a parent
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in a pig will always says I will I will for everything that his
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mother is asking him to do who will help me unload the
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groceries. I will I will and there is Big
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won't I won't I won't and which type are you?
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As a child I'll let you guess but one of the reasons I think
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about it is because it's a childhood book.
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That I think very simplifies some of the right people, right?
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Seats concept. When you have the right people
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they are joyful and happy and doing the work that they are
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supposed to be doing. I will comes natural to them.
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Whereas if you have wrong people wrong seats, you get a lot of I
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won't and there's a lot of friction and a lot of
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unhappiness. So with that in mind, I think,
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One of the things that we should start unpacking is this concept
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of right? People and right seats in doing
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so are you going to be able to figure out whether you've got
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right people, if you don't have core values, I think of be very
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challenging if not impossible. So in that regard, if you have
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not an opportunity to listen to last week's episode, we cover
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core values there. We're not going to do a whole
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Deep dive into core values on this show.
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It covers core values. What they are and how to build
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them for your firm. Also, if you look in the show
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notes, there's some resources in terms of how to build core
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values, you don't need to hit pause or fast forward.
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This will still be a valuable episode in terms of talking
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about, right, people? Right seats, but developing core
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values is essential to get there.
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Would you agree? I would, and I'd add that.
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You might know that somebody is not a good fit, but it would be
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very difficult to know, just Why without the core values in place
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and, you know, previous show we referred to values.
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Dividends what about Dividends is being able to say ah now I
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know why this person is not right fit and now I can help
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that person. Perhaps find a place where they
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may be happier than they are here or doing what they're
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doing. Yes, I'm going to jump into a
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tool, there is a organization called the entrepreneurial
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operating system iOS. Can you tell us a little bit
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about what that is cos was started by a gentleman named
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Gino Wickman and it it is an operating system for companies
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to run on has various components and I'm not going to get into
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all the details of the components right now.
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But the people, the data, the traction that you're able to
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generate by having all of the various components working for
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your firm or your company, not limited to law, firms.
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And this was a pop quiz and you get a gold star for being able
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to Rollin off that way. And my point, Bring it up, while
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us has some wonderful tools across the board for a right
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people, right seat analysis. They have a easily accessible to
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all the people analyzer. You can Google it or there's a
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link in the show notes. Can you tell us a little bit
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about what the people analyzer is and how it comes into play in
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terms of looking at people against their core values to
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determine whether they are right people for an organization.
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Yes. So the people analyzer is a tool
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for using your core values. As well as three additional
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categories. Get it wanted and capacity to
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see whether the team members are a good fit for your firm.
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When we go backwards. And can you tell us what get it
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wanted and capacity or in terms of the analysis?
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Well, very broadly get it. Do they get what their role is
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in The Firm, do they? I want it.
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They may very well get it, but just have a laxity circle
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approach to their role and may be very competent, but just not
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want to be doing that every day from the moment they start work
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until the moment, the end, and then capacity is not necessarily
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just the tools to do their job in The Firm.
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But whether they have capacity in other areas of their life,
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and An ability to do what is being asked of them in that job?
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So, when we talk about right, people and right seats, when
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you're looking at the get it wanted capacity piece set focus
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on one of those elements. The are PRS.
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Whether you have the right person is based on the core
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values themselves and the right seat relates to the three
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elements get it. Want it and capacity.
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If you take a look at somebody and determine that they may be
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lacking in, get it on a capacity.
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That person may be a right person in a wrong seat.
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Meaning, you might actually have a good core value candidate, but
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there is another seat. You need to plug them into
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another seat but they don't belong in the seat of their in
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correct. And as an example we have a
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person who wears many hats within our firm and I wouldn't
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say she's necessarily the wrong. Person in those seats but has a
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real knack for marketing. So when it comes down to it,
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that might be where her real interest lies and is she in the
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wrong seat, doing Finance or some other things for her to
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decide, but it's good to analyze those aspects for a career
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growth as well. So, going through the people
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analyzer, and this is a little bit of a visual but we'll talk
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through it in essence. It's got a number of columns and
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you put your values in just, for the sake of illustrating, why
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don't you run through our values?
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Use so values across the top. You'd have the name Tom Pat.
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Susie Bob and this would be names of people and then those
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will be rows and then across the top in terms of columns you'd
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have the values and that your organization has and then get it
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one at capacity. Is that pretty good description?
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Correct. So along the top for us we'd
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have Relentless committed, candid respectful, collaborative
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and wise. And then beyond that, there
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would be get it one capacity. Correct.
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And each team member would be analyzed based on those values
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as well as they get it. Want it capacity pieces as well,
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in terms of scoring that people use their variety of ways that
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people can approach it. But the scoring method that is
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often times suggested is it - for people who are lacking a + /
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- for those who meet expectations and then a plus For
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those who exceed expectations correct?
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As to the evaluation for the core values, get it one at
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capacity as I recall as yes or no.
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No, in between understood. And when you encounter somebody
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in the core values who does not meet Expectations - symbol, what
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is the significance of that to you?
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If you have done this analysis, when you're evaluating someone,
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if they are not a good fit, as far as our core values are
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concerned, they are considered to be not a right person for our
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firm regardless of their ability to get the job done.
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And that's not that they're a bad person.
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It's that they aren't a good cultural fit for the way that
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this particular company. Approaches things correct.
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Whether for our firm or another company out there, they would
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not be seen as aligned with the values.
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And most likely would not be somebody that would be happy in
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that environment. They're all sorts of people who
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run firms. And some people may only have
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one or two employees, some may have many if you've got a larger
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leadership team when you're doing this kind of analysis, do
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you just do this yourself? Do you ask say, your partner /
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husband to also do this? Do you ask HR people when you're
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doing a people or their manager, when you're doing people
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analysis, how do you approach it?
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Is it one person or do you try and get as much information as
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possible. We get information from the full
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leadership team which includes HR and the manager for the
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Department. One of the things that one hears
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about is some of the impact that wrong people can have overall.
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It's not just that they're not happy.
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It's that they can actually have negative impact on the people
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who work with them. If you tolerate their presence
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with clients who engage with With people, whether it's
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opposing counsel, judges, mediators vendors wrong people
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send the wrong message. If you tolerate them, is that a
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fair statement? Yes.
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And that can have devastating impacts on morale within the
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firm. I was listening to another
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podcast recently, Danny, Meyer of of Shake Shack, Fame, founder
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restaurant or put this. Well, he said, the culture, you
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have in your organization is the sum of all the wanted behaviors
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that you celebrate. And as all of The Unwanted
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behaviors that you tolerate, and I find that interesting because
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having been at various firms over the years, it's change is
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hard. It's hard to recognize that
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someone who you care about deeply and like spending time
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with on the most part may not be right person.
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And that's been difficult for us over the past decades.
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I think we're getting better about it now, it continues.
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Be challenging. But what I like to focus on is
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the fact that most of these transitions due to folks who are
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not right people for our firm and up making everybody happier
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in the long run all involved. Can you elaborate on what you
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mean by that? We have had some people
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transition out of our firm because they were not aligned
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with our core values. I think it became clear that
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they were not aligned and they went on to On to other
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opportunities that ultimately, I think make them happier and are
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potentially quite a bit better for their careers because they
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found their sweet spots. Now I know that sometimes there
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can be a Temptation when somebody is really really close
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and by Temptation, I mean well they're so close or they bring
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this that other people don't. But can you tell us a little bit
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about the challenges of the person who's almost a right fit?
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They do so many things that We are adding value to the firm and
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often times have a personality that fits well with the rest of
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the team. And yet, there's something that
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just isn't right and causes more problems, ultimately then
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somebody who's a right fit for that role, and we've learned
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about that over the years and are better at spotting it, but
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the resistance to make the change is still there.
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And something that we grapple with to this day, if somebody is
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going through this from right now, do you have anything that
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you would say to them in terms of making that difficult
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decision, the decision needs to be made as challenging as it is?
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It doesn't do anyone any good to keep people on, who are not a
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good fit? I think sometimes we you and I
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have struggled with that because it makes us feel uncomfortable
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to have to transition folks out of the firm.
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Now try to focus on the fact that it doesn't do them any
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favors to keep them around, it's not a positive environment.
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If somebody's not a good fit and they could go somewhere, that is
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a positive environment and they could thrive in that space.
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Yeah. And I will tell a story on
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myself as far as this is concerned this dates back to
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very early on when I was out on my own and I was working with
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somebody who I didn't have core values, I didn't even know what
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they were. But I was with somebody who Was
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not a good fit. And somebody who I care deeply
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about had worked with before, in other places and my behavior
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with that employee in terms of my frustration, as my
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frustration grew over time. I was not a kind person or
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nowhere near as kind as I would like to have been because I was
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frustrated I would Define it as poor management and
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passive-aggressive ways of handling being a manager.
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Ultimately I made the decision to let that person go but if
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Understood core values and I had understood right people as a
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concept. I would have been able to
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identify this early on and been able to make the conscious an
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adult decision to deal with it. And I bring this up because I
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suspect there are a lot of people in plan of firms as the
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speed at, which litigation work requires where this is going on
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and taking that step back to be conscious about it and be
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mindful, because that person will be a lot happier with the
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transition as well. Not in the moment, it sucks.
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Us in the moment. But ultimately, that person went
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on to be very happy in another place.
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I remember those days and I think in the moment you felt
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that you were doing the right thing with that person.
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And now that we look back, it seems that you are doing a
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disservice and feeling that you are protecting the person's
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feelings in a way that probably could have been improved by just
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having that relationship ended, the analogy of might use is you
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can either take a Band-Aid off quickly.
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Or you can minutely remove it for a year and a half and it is
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tediously painful in the slow and really hard.
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That's a way of highlighting the - about not doing things.
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The positive is, if you go through the core values,
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exercise, and you go through this analysis with people, you
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start striving to reach that point of 100%, right people,
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right seats. And as you have developed core
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values and look for that alignment, it becomes clear to
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people throughout the firm, whether they're a good fit or
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not, as good as fit. And as we've talked about the
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folks who aren't in Alignment will often exit themselves.
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The other piece though, for those who don't choose eggs at
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themselves, if the rest of the people are right, people?
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Right seats? This goes back to that.
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Danny Meyer quote, if you tolerate Behavior, if you
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tolerate wrong people, just be key to wealth or a top
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salesperson, or the, they're so important on this piece that may
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be true in the moment. But the net - having that person
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who is not a cultural fit, if you tolerate, that person your
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other right, people may decide to leave.
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It sets the stage for sure, what you might expect of others in
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the firm. And I think that lower
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expectations do not reflect well on the firm in general and your
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top performers are not going to see around if that's the case at
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the risk of repeating ourselves in one of the concepts, we
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talked about on the management episode of few episodes back
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when it comes down to this is this person a right person wrong
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person. If there is doubt, there is no
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doubt. It's time to make the Bold move.
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That's a tough one. You use that phrase often.
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And I think it's largely true. And it's hard to act on very
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hard as much as I espouse it. We routinely are having
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conversations about how are we doing?
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And the reason I say that is because if your goal is to have
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100% right people, right seats it's an ongoing conversation
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because people aren't static and positions aren't static and so
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whether it's your your managers whether it's Leadership, it's an
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ongoing conversation to make sure that you've got the best
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possible team fighting for your clients.
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And when we're talking about right seat, one aspect of that
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is somebody who is making so much Headway in their role that
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they're no longer write for the seat anymore.
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We have somebody in our firm. Now, who is a pre-litigation
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manager about to graduate from law school, and become an
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attorney and he outgrew prior roles and has been elevated to
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more Complex roles over the years and so that's a nice way
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to say that. He was not in the right seat at
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certain times and continues to be a big part of our firm value
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team member. That's a way of highlighting
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that as people develop Talent as people develop different
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interests that get it one it capacity.
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They may be growing, they may be getting too big for particular
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seat and it may be time to help them find their new seed and
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that's why it's a constant evolution.
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The other piece of that equation is if they are not in the right
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seat, sometimes our desire is to find a seat for them and before
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trying to explore all those options for the right seat.
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We need to be sure that they're the right person for the firm.
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Sometimes the two go hand-in-hand and they're not
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right people, right seat. We talked quite a bit about
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right, people, right seats. And ways of looking at that.
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Is there anything else that you think from a high-level people
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ought to know? As they are evaluating this
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issue. I think that about covers it.
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Well, thanks again, Mariah. Thanks for having me here,
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anytime. And thank you for listening
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today. Please email us at
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podcast@biobalancehealth.com with questions, comments,
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feedback suggestions or experiences you've had with the
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issue of right people, right seats?
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Like what you heard sure us with a colleague and leave us.
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Do all the you doing Justice out there, happy Hunting.