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The Steelers vs Oilers/Titans Rivalry · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_08: Hello and welcome to another remembering episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_08: I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt, and as usual, I'm joined by I'm Tim Hannon.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_08: And today we're going to remember a rivalry that I'm sure people that are on the older side will remember, but some of you younger folks probably won't.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_08: That would be the Steelers, Oilers, slash Titans rivalry.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_08: As I dug into this, this uh doing the research for this podcast, man, there were you you forget how like rich this rivalry was and how many great games there were.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, from the briefcase game to good old commander Cody Carlson.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_08: I'm sorry, Tim, we have to talk about it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe it'll be therapeutic discussing that one.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_08: And uh, I mean, this is like this was a great rivalry, and it's a shame we don't play them every year, but I mean there's a good reason why we don't.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for for for my age group at least, you know, I I really like when I was really super into football as a kid, it was like the late 80s, early 90s.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when, man, I just I hated this team so much.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really hated them.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Much more so than Cleveland.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the Raiders rivalry was kind of um flamed out at that point, the Cowboys, all the stuff from the 70s was gone.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the first rivalry that that was the first team I really hated, was the Houston Oilers.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_08: And they have a great uh they have a great uh fight song or theme song or whatever you want to call it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_08: But um I digress.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_08: So um, since we uh know about the Steelers in 1933 and Art Rooney and sucking for 40 years, we won't go into too much background on them.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_08: So we'll do some background on the Houston Oilers, and you might just say, uh, what is a Houston Oiler?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_08: I only know of Houston Texans.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_08: Well, here's what happened.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_08: Um The Oilers existed from 1960 to 1995.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_08: Um, they were owned by a gentleman named Bud Adams.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_08: He was the owner and founder of the Oilers.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_08: I think he actually had a job.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_08: He he'd either got a job from his father, so there was some nepotism for sure.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and he worked for one of the oil companies, which oil is a major industry in Houston, thus the name of their team, like the Steelers and the Steel Mills, the Oilers and Houston.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Bud Adams uh wanted to start an NFL franchise, and the NFL said thanks, but no thanks.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_08: We don't want no teams in Houston.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_08: We already got no teams in Houston, I guess.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, they didn't have anybody, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_08: They did they have the Cowboys maybe back then?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe that was why because they already had a team in Texas.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah or or I don't I don't I mean Houston's a a huge major city at this point, but maybe back then it wasn't, I don't know.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_08: Well, be that as it may, um, he went to the American Football League and goes, I like the American Football Conference.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_08: And I could say, Yes, it would be the same thing.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_08: Um, only back in 1960 it was a whole separate league.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_08: Um so that's what happened was the uh AFL, he went and founded a team, the Houston Oilers, and uh let's see, there was the Dallas Texans, there was the Boston Patriots, Denver Broncos, uh San Diego Chargers.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_08: Am I missing anybody, Tim?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Raiders, Raiders, Raiders.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, the Raiders, Buffalo Bills, Bills, yeah, Buffalo.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_08: So that that's kind of your original AFL teams there.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_08: So um what happened with the Oilers?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_08: The Oilers were very successful in their first three seasons.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_08: So it was founded in 1960 and they won the inaugural AFL championship, and they actually backed it up.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_08: They won the 1961 champion.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_08: So they went back to back the first two years of that league.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_08: Um, they did lose the third championship game to a team called the Dallas Texans.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_08: And for$100, Tim, where who are the Dallas Texans currently?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Kansas City Chiefs.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_08: That's it, yes.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_08: Owned by Lamar Hunt.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_08: So it was owned by the Hunts.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they just moved the team from Dallas to Kansas City.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_08: I guess the Cowboys, yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_08: So um rather rather than going through this chronologically, I kind of broke it up into three different eras because I think this rivalry really had three different distinct error eras.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_08: And so um I will they will be the golden era, and that's from 1975 to 1980, the jerk oilers from 1985 to roughly 1993.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_08: There might be some overlap in there, and the Jeff Fisher-Bill Cower era from 1994 to 2002.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_08: So we will start with our favorite.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_08: I think we're gonna have a lot of fun with this one, Tim.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_08: The Jerk Oilers.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_08: And boy were they a bunch of jerks, huh?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_08: As Tim said, this is when Tim became became to hate this team, huh?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_08: This this is the one that did it to you, huh?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: This this was the era that, like I said, I just I despised so much this team.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_08: So um basically, um, the Steelers and the Oilers are kind of both off their heyday, and they're both mediocre.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_08: They're not bad teams, but they're not definitely not competing necessarily for Super Bowls or anything.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_08: But they're good enough to make the playoffs and definitely some very memorable games.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_08: And one of the big reasons you might say, well, why?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_08: It seems like, you know, number one, they were in the same division, so it's you know, they're gonna play each other twice a year.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_08: And number two, a big reason for this was a coach named Jerry Glanville, and a little bit about Jerry Glanville.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_08: He was a defensive coordinator of the Oilers from 1984 to 1985, and then they fired the coach at that point, and he had gotten promoted to intern, interim head coach, and then he got uh the actual head coaching gig the next year.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_08: And um, you know, he he was a character.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_08: Uh he would uh wear all black on the sidelines.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_08: Um he left tickets to Euler Games at We'll Call for Elvis.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_08: This is 1986.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_08: Do we realize the problem at that point?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_08: Elvis had died in 1976.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of people thought that Elvis was still alive, and I guess he was one of those people.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so um I don't know if Elvis ever picked up his tickets or enjoyed an Oilers game.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe he was a you know Falcons fan.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_08: Needless to say, Jerry Glanville is pretty wild.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_08: Um, what he did do was he got the Oilers back to being competitive.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_08: They had kind of had some down years there after their big run in the 70s, and uh the Asterdom actually becomes known as the House of Pain during this era.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_08: And there there is a rumor on the internet that it wasn't just from the hard-hitting defense, it was because I guess they would turn the um sound system up so loud it would hurt your ears.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_08: So I don't know, never went to the Asterdome.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_08: I think they finally ripped down the Asterdome, didn't they?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_08: I think just like a year or two ago.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you have to remember that was a big deal back in the day because there wasn't a lot of domes, no.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it I think that was like the first place where they started to play indoor any sports.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, everything was outdoors.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Baseball, football was always outdoors before that place, so it was wasn't it called the Eighth Wonder of the World at one point, I guess.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_08: So the Astro Dome, it did exist, I know it till I think finally a year or two, they finally ripped it down, but it hadn't been used for probably 15-20 years, at least for football.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_08: They might have used it for rodeos and concerts and such, but that comes into play later in in this podcast.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_08: Um, another person um that uh got the oilers back to competition was a uh quarterback named Warren Moon.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_08: And um he was a I think he's in the is he in the NFL Hall of Fame?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_08: If he isn't, he's gonna be.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_08: Um he had come from the he had played at Washington and played in the Rose Bowl and uh got snubbed by the NFL.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_08: And so he went to the Canadian Football League and uh absolutely was a superstar there for the Edmonton Eskimos.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_08: And so then in the 80s, I think it was 84, 85, he decided he was gonna come to the NFL.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_08: And Houston, to their credit, Bud Adams actually outbid a couple other teams because they knew Warren Moon was gonna be good.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_08: So um they actually had to outbid a couple other teams to get Warren Moon to play for them.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Tim, would you say Warren Moon's best quarterback in Oilers, Titans history?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really tough.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, it's him, McNair, Carrie Collins.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Daniel.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_08: The big drop-off from him, McNair.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, the I think the three errors you're going to talk about, I'll have like a signature Houston quarterback, and those are those are your top three.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we'll talk a little bit more about McNair later.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Probably Moon is, but boy, when you talk about McNair, I I have some things to say there because he was just so impressive.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But so was Moon.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like the NFL Films has this great piece that they did on him.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: It might have been like one of those football life things.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: But people talked about when he threw the ball, it like made a sound.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like this like this whipping sound.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then they would play clips of it from like NFL Films.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it it seriously, like he threw the ball that hard.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_08: He was they could pick it up with uh with the microphones.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could yeah, you could hear the ball like whizzing through the air when he threw it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so yeah, that he was a he was a very, very good quarterback.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_08: Uh another person that I remember I remember liking this guy, even though I know Tim maybe didn't.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_08: Ernest Givens.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_08: Uh he made two Pro Bowls in 90 and 92.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_08: I mainly like it because he had a fun touchdown dance.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_08: Do you remember his touchdown dance?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was like this slide.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_08: It was the electric slide.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Electric slide, yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Hayward Jeffries, I don't remember a lot.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_08: I just remember him being good in like killing the Steelers.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_08: So um, and Houston in this era ran an offense called the run and shoot, which it's kind of just a predecessor of how all the spread offenses, offense of now are.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_08: Like they really were running an offense that was probably 10 to 15 years ahead of its time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_08: And uh, it's basically the wide receivers choose which route to go, and the quarterback and the wide receiver have to make kind of the same decisions, but that's pretty commonplace now.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_08: Back then, not so much.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_08: It would be like, okay, you run this route, and that's the route you ran, whether it was wrong or right against that defense.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they would run a lot out of shotgun too, with like one running back.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have like a fullback, which was unusual back then, like you said, that would just be normal today.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and I remember Haywood Jeffries too.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Curtis Duncan, Drew Hill, Drew Hill was another guy.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember all their receivers because they used to burn us a lot, especially in that this era that you're talking about when they're when they're just getting good to late 80s.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they they had a they had a I I think people just weren't ready for that offense, and and they were very successful with it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_08: So um the Steelers, for their part, um they had uh Mark Malone.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_08: Uh his highlight was beating the 49ers that one time, and he had a 90-yard TD reception in 1981.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_08: So I think that's still like the sixth or seventh longest touchdown reception in Steeler history.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_08: So he's got that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_08: Um Bubby Brister later in the in this era, um, who probably Bubby Brister's biggest highlight was do you remember this, Tim?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_08: Not going into a game after when Neil O'Donnell got pulled.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, against the state.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_08: That was that was against Houston.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_08: They were getting blown out.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_08: And uh Bubby was like, nope, not doing it, not going in.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: What was his quote?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_08: I don't mop up for anybody.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_08: He's not no mop-up quarterback.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_08: So back to people that are in the Hall of Fame.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_08: That would be Rod Witson, who was a Hall of Fame cornerback.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_08: Now he didn't come in really until 86, 87, so but that's right, right in this era.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_08: And of course, um Chuck Knoll, the Hall of Fame and Super Bowl coach, is still the coach of the Steelers at this point because you know the Steelers change coaches less often than the you know hopes change.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_08: So one one of the big things that happened during this was like Jerry Glanville coached a very how do you say this, physical defense to you call it physical defense?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I would call it a loose with the rolls defense.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_08: Well, remember, remember, uh, I remember one of Jerry Glanville's great quotes was um there was a ref I guess wasn't calling it long.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_08: He said, NFL stands for not for long, the way you're calling it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that's right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_08: So Jerry, like I said, you know, so the obviously a very physical game, and the Oilers and Steelers are playing in Houston, and um the Steelers needed to win.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_08: I think this is during the 1980s, this is during the 1987 season, and the Steelers were eight and five, and they needed a win to help secure their playoff uh standing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_08: So I guess the Oilers are doing Oiler type things, you know, hitting people borderline, maybe getting called, maybe not, you know, just being rough and you know, just out of hand.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_08: So this is now to describe Chuck Knoll, Tim, would you uh say Stoic doesn't say a lot, doesn't really get into like talking matches with opposing players.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, stoic you're right, doesn't get into doesn't get real up or down.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like even if uh the Steelers have like a last second touchdown and the rest of the team's jumping up and down, Chuck Knoll's just kind of like, okay, let's kick the extra point.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's his that's his demeanor on game day, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, yeah, and that just kind of sets up how like out of character for it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_08: So it must have been pretty bad, at least in Chuck Knowles' opinion.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_08: So so this is a direct quote from Chuck Knowle.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_08: Um, number 24, he's yelling to one of the Oilers players, tell your coach, obviously Jerry Glanville, I'm going to meet him after the game and kick his butt.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_08: I guess I'm sure he did not say butt.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_08: Um said to Oilers cornerback Steve Brown.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_08: And then he followed that up with that wasn't good enough for Chuck Noel.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_08: He said, Who do you think is gonna win?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_08: And the corner, Steve Brown for the Oilers replied, My money is on you, coach.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_08: Nice.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_08: So, you know, this led to a uh obviously a handshake at the end of the game that was uh not too uh cordial.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_08: So uh we'll try and play that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_08: So that's Chuck Knoll not too happy with um apparently all the uh what do we say, uh, liberties they were taking at that point.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's so great that someone caught that on camera because how often are you gonna get that?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could see them maybe getting the shot of it, but but having the audio, somebody actually got the audio of that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wonder I wonder how many times something like that happened in the in the 20 plus years Chuck Noel was coached.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I probably that might be the only time.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it was not a uh common occurrence.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_08: He was not you know like that.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_08: He didn't get normally that upset, like we said.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_08: He was pretty um pretty pretty standard, you know, just kind of you know, even keeled and not you know one to not like Bill Cower, who was more, you know, into the game and not into the game, but just more more just like animated, I guess would be a good word to use.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, more Cower is more like hard on his sleeve.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Noel is not.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_08: So um after this game, um there's a book called The Locker Room Tales of the Pittsburgh Steelers from the playing field to the broadcast boat.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_08: This is a book written, I don't know, by her, but at least they provided the material, Tunch Ilkin and Craig Wolfley, who both played offensive line during this era.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_08: And then they went on to post a radio show.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_08: And uh Tunch Okin is now the late Tunch Okin.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_08: Craig Wolfley's still, I think still doing Steeler broadcasts.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_08: So um apparently both of them were in a fight during this game and they were facing a penalty.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_08: And Noel actually stood up for his players, and uh, this is what he said to the league.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_08: Listen, this is a bunch of crap, Noel stated.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_08: These guys were just defending their teammates.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_08: If you do not allow them to defend their teammates, you and I guess Joe Brown, who is the head of whatever NFL discipline committee, in essence, emasculate them.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_08: So Chuck Dole, definitely strong words, and that that's kind of how it went with the uh Jerry Glanville teams.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_08: A lot of cheap shots, uh a lot of fights, a lot of stuff going on, which will maybe make some of these other things that happen a little more satisfying for you, huh, Tim?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_08: Well, before we get to the satisfying stuff, let's get to the um not so fun stuff.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_08: Tim, where were you in 1990 for the Cody Carlson game?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I was I was it was a Sunday night game.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_08: It was in Houston, wasn't it?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was in Houston, so I was I was watching it in in the family room of our our house with my brother, and uh getting more and more angered on each like play.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_08: So just the background, um I think uh this is another must-win game for the Steelers.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_08: They are in Houston, and then they need a win to make the playoffs.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_08: So this is one of the there were three teams.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_08: I think it was them, Cincinnati and Houston were all tied in the division.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_08: And whoever won this is basically a de facto playoff game in week 16 or 17, and whoever won this would get into the playoffs, and whoever lost it would be sitting at home.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_08: And I don't know what happened the it was either week before Warren Moon got hurt, and so the Steelers are going into a must-win game with and against the Oilers, and the Oilers don't have their Hall of Fame starting quarterback.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_08: So you would think advantage Steelers, right?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_08: So the Steelers lose on a fluky play.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_08: Nope, they get blown out 34-14.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Cody Carlson, the commander, commands his way for 247 yards and three touchdowns.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Bobby Brister, who was not mopping up, probably could have used somebody to mop up for this mess he made.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_08: 15 for 29, no touchdowns and an interception.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_08: Is this the infamous Joe Walton, Joe Walton offense at this point?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it so it was so that season was goofy, 1990, because they had we'll talk about 89 here in a minute, but they had gone really far in 89, and you thought maybe they'll build off of that, and they'll be even better in 1990.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they'd hired this new offensive coordinator, Joe Walton, and they come out of the gate and they lose three of their first four, and they don't score a touchdown on offense until October.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like this dreadful start to the season, but like like a lot of like actually like a lot of the Tomlin seasons, like they start really slow, but then they get really hot towards the end.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and going into that Houston game, they had won three games in a row where their defense hadn't given up, had not given up a touchdown.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_08: That makes this even crazier.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So so the defense is super hot, and and then even the offense, the week before, they played Cleveland at home and won 35 to nothing.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_08: That's and and so Cleveland wasn't terrible in 90, were they?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_08: No.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and so and so you're thinking to yourself, I I was at that Cleveland game.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I remember coming home, I was so jazzed because we just crushed the Browns.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and then um I watched NFL primetime with Chris Berman.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing they they talked about, like they come, like they kind of came in with like breaking news at the beginning, was that Warren Moon had gotten hurt in whatever game the Oilers are playing, and he was probably gonna be out for the game against the Steelers next week.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So not only is this team on fire, not only is the defense you know shutting everybody out, but now commander Cody Carlson's gonna be their quarterback.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and so like you're thinking, and and the Steelers had beaten the Oilers earlier that season with War Moon.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you're thinking that that like not only are we we going to the playoffs, but if we won that game, Steve, we would have won the division.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we would have gone in it would have been a home game, probably.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been a home game.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And back then, um, i if you won your division, you had a pretty good chance of getting a bye week.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like this they was gonna really set up the Steelers for a potential playoff run, and all they had to do was beat a backup quarterback, and then like you said.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just that they, like you said, it's not just that they lost or that they had some bad plays or the defense played well, but the offense couldn't get anything going.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like to give up 34 points to the backup quarterback, it was over by by pretty much by halftime.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_08: You got to go to bed early to go to school the next week.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my brother and I didn't go to bed.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: What we did, and I and this is kind of I don't know why I remember this, but I do.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: We had it was winter, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we had a we had one of those like old school, not um not like a gas fireplace, but like a wood-burning, you know, fireplace.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you had to keep the fire going.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad used to throw like newspaper and stuff in there to keep the fire going.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So my brother and I decided to keep the fire going, and we would collect all of our Houston Euler football cards that we had and throw those into the fire.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_08: I bet you took great pleasure when Cody Carlson's burned up.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_08: If you even had a card, dude.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whenever we found like Cody Carlson's 1990s score football card and threw it into the fire and watched it burn.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was how we coped with that loss was burning Houston Weather football cards.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I I was so angry because that season was so up and down that it was like finally, okay, finally, this is the team we were meant to be.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: This was the team everybody thought that they were going to be improved, and all they had to do was beat a backup quarterback and they lost.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was to the Oilers.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if that would have been the backup quarterback for the for the you know Los Angeles Rams or whatever, who cares?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not who cares, it still would have been disappointing, but the fact that it was against the Oilers just made it so much harder to bear.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_08: And the commander.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know why.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_08: Why did they call him Commander, Cody Carlson?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_08: And he had was he in the military?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Obliteration?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing I can think of.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_08: He wasn't like in the Navy or something.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I really I I'm you try and block Cody Carlson.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't yeah, I just don't care.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_08: I I now in full disclosure, I really didn't start watching the Steelers until two years later when Bill Cower came.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_08: So I missed out on all this fun, I guess.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_08: And we'll put fun and quotation marks.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It it was just par for the course back then.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_08: Like I said, it puts Houston in the playoffs and it knocks the Steelers out.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_08: I think Houston got blown out by Cincinnati the next week.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_08: And I I don't know if Warren Moon played or not.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_08: I didn't look that far into it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_08: But maybe the commander got his comeuppance the next week.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_08: But that that's what a rivalry should be.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, you know, knocking, you know, that knocking another team out of the playoffs, and you know, you're you're in.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a whole chain of events too, because Cincinnati.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_08: If they were tied, it was a weird situation.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: They they all so all three of those teams finished nine and seven.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Steelers finished with the same record as Houston and Cincinnati, but they lost out on the tiebreakers.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: If that were today, they would be in because there's more playoff teams.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Back then they they were still out.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then Cincinnati plays Houston and they win, and then Cincinnati goes and plays the Raiders in the divisional round, and that's the game where Bo Jackson gets hurt and he never plays football again.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like a whole chain of events that happen, but you know.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody that loves Bo Jackson playing, you can always trace it back to this stupid game.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_08: Commander Cody Carlson.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, well, we're gonna uh move on to a happier memory, huh, Tim?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, that would be 1989, like Tim alluded to, the year before.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_08: Um the Steelers, once again, boy, you could almost put this like at the beginning of every season for the Steelers.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_08: They struggle out of the gate, but they end up in the playoffs.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_08: But the playoffs are in Houston, and this is like Jerry Glanville, but I think he kind of worn out his welcome with Bud Adams by that point.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_08: So he's kind of coaching for his coaching life at this point.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_08: And Houston's a pretty decent team.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_08: They they're they're a good team, they got a good defense, they got Warren Moon, they're not a bad team.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_08: But Houston goes 9-7, and um the difference is is the Steelers won their last three to get in the playoffs, and Houston had lost their last three to end up in this situation playing.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_08: This is a wild card game.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_08: And so just to briefly synopsize, I think they were losing with under a minute left, and Merrill Hodge, who, man, Merrill Hodge was really great in like playoff games.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_08: He scores a 40 a touchdown with 46 seconds left.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_08: And then let's see, Rod Woodson recovers a fumble, and here we will play that for you.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is in overtime.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, this is now what they are in overtime.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_06: 45.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_06: and it's to the ground for Lorenzo White and he's set for the loss.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_06: He fumbled, and the Steelers recover Rod Woodson on the recovery.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_08: And now this is in sudden death overtime.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_08: Which I guess even in the now overtime, it would still eliminate the Oilers.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_08: So the Steelers drive and they're Did they get was it right after that fumble?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So so so so let me I just want to talk about that fumble for a second.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the the Oilers were at the 45, at the Steelers 45.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they only needed another first down, maybe, maybe, maybe 15 more yards in there and field goal.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_08: Al Bel Greco field goal range.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and back then, like you said, it was sudden death.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if they if they kick a field goal, the game's over.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I don't even remember if they had the ball first or not, but either way, the game's over if they kick a field goal.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and Rod Woodson not only recovered that fumble, he caused it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: He dives at Lorenzo White as he's near the sidelines, he knocks the ball out and then picks it up.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like he makes that whole play all by himself.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was just the genius of how good Rod Woodson was.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he was my favorite player back then, and that was amazing because it was amazing that we even got to overtime in that game.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the the earlier that season when the Steelers played at Houston, you know what the final score of that game was?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was 27-0.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Houston.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that we take them overtime, and then they're driving for the game-winning field goal, and Woodson knocks the ball out.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: The other great thing about that play that no one would ever really notice, but you'd have to kind of look at the replay and look in the background.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Woodson picks up the ball.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: He like has his arms raised like very triumphantly because it's it's right near the Houston sideline.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_08: I think that's in front of Jerry Glenn.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's in front of Glanville and all the Oilers players, he has his arms like up in the air.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in the background, all the Oilers players are walking off the field because they're they're dejected.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lorenzo White is dejected.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: He fumbled the ball in this critical situation.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Chris Dishman, who is their cornerback.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_08: Oh gosh, what a jerk.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of their chief jerk players.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's screaming and arguing with the referee.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's the only Oiler player who thinks that that wasn't a fumble, and he's sitting there arguing.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that made that like extra sweet for me.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just to see him whining and crying about it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single person in that stadium knew that was a fumble, except Chris Ditchman's like, no, it wasn't.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_08: So that that's I forgot how annoying Chris Ditchman was until he brought that up.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pull put yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Go back later, Steve, and watch the very end of that um play where Woodson's walking around.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You'll see like over Woodson's like shoulder, you can see Chris Ditchman screaming at the ref.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's on defense, like you've not even Yeah, he ran off the sidelines to argue with the referee.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_08: So So I think the Steelers had to drive a little bit, but it's this is not a chip-shot field goal.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_08: But the one thing the Steelers have going for them is it's indoors and on turf.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_08: And if there's one thing Gary Anderson doesn't miss is field goals in the playoffs, indoors on turf.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_08: Except for that one time when he did eight years later.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_08: It wasn't for us though, so who cares?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_08: So here we go.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_08: Here's Gary Anderson for a not a trip to the Super Bowl.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_06: So it has come down to this.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_06: Gary Anderson over his career has connected six times from 50 plus.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_06: Six out of 15.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_06: He's hit from 49 on two occasions this season.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_06: This would win it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_06: And Anderson's kick is good.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_06: The Pittsburgh Steelers have upset the Houston Oilers in the AFC wildcard.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_08: I love all the Steeler fans there.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_08: And Jerry, you can look to if you if you get a chance, we'll have all these links on our website.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_08: But yeah, the look on Jerry Glanville's face is the look of a man that knows he's fired.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't you can't see it, obviously, those of you listening.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if in that clip, when they were panning the stands, the woman that they cut to in the Steeler sweatshirt, it's Bubby's mom.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_08: Are you serious?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_08: I didn't know that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_08: Oh wow.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_08: That's hilarious.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_08: But yeah, I mean it's it's a great ending, and it was kind of the ending of that era.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_08: But man, boy, they did you know, that was a lot of fun, and you know it's I mean, I guess, you know, they still Cody Carlson had it in the next year.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_08: But that was I mean what what a absolute teams that just killed each other over the course of you know ten years.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_08: And this was not a respectful rivalry.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_08: Both teams hated each other, and I think that carried on probably for a number of years.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_08: Like that definitely did not go away for a while.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It it didn't.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and the thing about the Oilers of that era was they never won anything.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like they had these great teams, and then they had these just like horrific playoffs.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_08: Well, that's that's not even their worst playoff loss.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_08: No.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, they actually literally had the worst loss if you're talking about point, you know, the the the lead that they had.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they literally had the worst loss in in NFL history uh a couple years later.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the the the that that playoff game was so um it was just such a cool experience because again, you know, we've talked about this before.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Steve and I were born uh you know in the in the in the late 70s during that's during the the Steel Wars dynasty, but we were babies, we were too young to experience it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the entire 1980s was just a disappointment.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I started getting into football like 83, 84, when I was old enough to understand it, everything there was just downhill.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and that game was on New Year's Eve, 1989.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally the last day of the decade.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just such like a like, okay, this is a terrible decade for Pittsburgh sports in general, definitely for the Steelers, but what a great way to end it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of a lot of fun.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, just wild.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_08: So um we're gonna shift gears here a little bit back to so that kind of ends that era.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_08: So we're gonna kind of jump around.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_08: We'll go to the golden era, as I called it, and this will be 1975 to 1980.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_08: And the Steelers and Houston had been in the same division for a while, but Houston wasn't really competitive, and the Steelers had just started their dynasty, like probably like 72, but then you know, really 74, 75 when they finally won a Super Bowl.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_08: So what had happened, which happens a lot in sports, is sometimes the two best teams are in the same conference, so they don't really get to play championship games, like a Super Bowl or a World Series or you know, NBA championship, or for the Stanley Cup final because that's decided before that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_08: And this is kind of what happened to the Oilers and Steelers.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_08: Kind of like very reminiscent of how the Steelers and Patriots were in the what was it, the tens there, I guess, or 2000s.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or even like the Penguins and Capitals there for a few years.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_08: Very similar to that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_08: So the Oilers, just uh we'll introduce the cast of characters here.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_08: Um, the Oilers hired Bum Phillips, um, who got them back to respectability and probably would have won a Super Bowl if not for the Steelers.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_08: And um, he was just great, like he's a character like Jerry Glanville, but not in a jerk way.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_08: Is that you know like he has like this down home southern Texas kind of thing?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_08: He wears a big Stetson and blue jeans, and he's just a generally overall nice guy who's a good football coach and seems like a genuine person.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_08: And then he has the all these great quotes.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_08: So I'll read you some of them.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_08: Um I guess there was a practice where uh like maybe a training camp where Earl Campbell, Earl Campbell, who was their big power back, didn't finish the mile run.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_08: Why they had Earl Campbell running a mile, why they had Ray Matthews or whoever their not Ray Matthew, whoever was their offensive lineman running a mile back then, I don't know.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_08: So he said I guess somebody from the media asked him, Oh, aren't you worried about Earl Campbell?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_08: I said, Well, hell, if it's third and a mile, we won't give it to him, but we're gonna give it to him the rest of the time.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_08: So that that's a great answer.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_08: Uh the harder we played, the behinder we got.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_08: Um another another classic.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_08: I don't mind people thinking I'm stupid.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_08: I don't want to give them any proof.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_08: And uh my personal favorite, there's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired, and then that's gonna be fired.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_08: And there, I mean, there's so many more I could have put in here, but um Bum Fum Phillips, just a character, kind of before my time and Tim's.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, do you remember anything much about Bum Phillips?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_08: Besides being Wade Phillips' dad, you know.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, you you're right.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everything we know about him, just like everything else from the 70s, you know, we were a little too young to experience in person, but but you're right, I think that was kind of the the ammo on him.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: He was very beloved, especially by the people in Houston and and probably around the NFL, not like Landville, who everybody just despised.
• 36:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and man, if you if you have the nickname of Bum and you're a lovable guy, then you must be doing something, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_08: I think his name OA or something like he has like an odd first name that he just went, I can see why he went with Bum.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_08: Um now the Oilers did lose two times in the AFC championship game.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_08: That would be 1978, 1979.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_08: Both those years the Steelers won a Super Bowl.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_08: And it's just kind of like the Patriots.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_08: Like the Steelers were good, but the Patriots were better.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_08: The same deal.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_08: The Steelers are the dynasty, and the Oilers are just the team that's not quite as good that the buzz saw that they run into.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_08: So in 1977, there's a game called the Briefcase Game, and I did not know anything about this until I researched this.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_08: I had never heard of this.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_08: So I looked it up on the Steelers, they do an asked and answered by a gentleman named Bob Labriola who writes for them.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_08: So in 1977, um, the end of the fourth game game regular season, and the Steelers were eight and five, the Bengals were eight and five, and the Oilers were seven and six.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_08: Boy, it very much sounds like 1990, doesn't it, Tim?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_08: And so the Steelers were to play the 7-6 Chargers in San Diego, and the Bengals were to go to Houston to face the Oilers.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_08: And the Oilers were already eliminated at this point from playoff contention.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_08: So if the Steelers and the Bengals both won and went to 9-5, the Bengals, so obviously this is a 14-game season still at that point, the uh Bengals would make the playoffs based on their better division record.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_08: So that meant the Steelers needed to beat the Chargers and then count on the Oilers, who had nothing to play for, to beat the Bengals.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_08: And that combination would give the Steelers the division and the title over the Bengals.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_08: So the Steelers do beat the Chargers, and then Houston beats Cincinnati 21-16 in the Astrodome to send the Steelers to the playoffs.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_08: So the Steelers, in appreciation for their uh for the Houston's professional approach to this meaningless game, meaningless regular season finale, they gave all the Oilers, players, and coaches briefcases, which just seems like an odd thing to do, but um, hey, it was the 70s, what are you gonna do?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I always thought that was weird too.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like out of all the gifts you could get, I like I I get that they're very grateful, you know, hey, you got us into the playoffs by winning that last game.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but briefcases for football players, I I don't know.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I I would have gone with something different there, Steve, but like you said, 1977, right?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Times were different.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I mean, now it's like I remember like people donate to like a person's charity, like a player's charity, so maybe the players didn't have as much charity.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_08: They definitely weren't millionaires back then, so they made like normal wages, so back in the 70s.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that's funny though, that was 1977.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this in 2024, and that same franchise got the Steelers into the playoffs this last season by winning a game.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So just kind of funny how things come full circle.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_08: So um going to 1978, there's a regular season game that the Steelers win 13-3, but Donnie Shell hits Earl Campbell so hard it causes a fumble.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_08: If you go back and watch this, it's like one of the hardest hits in NFL history, and it helps the Steelers win the division.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_08: So I mean it's crazy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_08: It's just like and Earl Earl Campbell, like I said, was a ginormous running back, and Donnie Shell's a safety.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_08: He's in the Hall of Fame now.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_08: But I mean, my goodness, he just absolutely like Earl Campbell kind of breaks through the line and gets spun a little bit, but to hit Earl Campbell like that and cause a fumble.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_08: And I think Earl Campbell at that point had already had 41 yards, and he I think he had to come out of the game.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_08: He did not play after that because he did not have many yards or play after Donnie Shell hit him.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he had a lot of courage to hit Earl Campbell, period, much less hit him at full speed.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_08: Well, there's that highlight against the Rams where he like basically like hits a guy in the chest and the guy goes fly and it's like a linebacker, a guy goes flying like five yards back.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_08: So that's another classic like 70s highlight that you've seen a million times.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_08: So um I guess that's 1978, the first time the Steelers play the Oilers, and they win 34-7 in the AFC championship game.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_08: So not much of a game.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_08: Um Bum Phillips, uh like I said, he wore that Stetson, that giant like 10-gallon cowboy hat.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_08: It actually got stolen after the game.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_08: There's a high, there's there's video of it.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_08: Like somebody runs up and like some idiot Steeler fan.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_08: And uh actually, I don't know if it was Steeler fans or just fans in general.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_08: They all sent him like he got like a bunch of Stetson hats out of it.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_08: Like people sent him a replacement.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's nice.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_08: I wonder, I wonder if like, you know, somebody like in their home somewhere in like, you know, McKnight or you know, up in Wexford has like, you know, a Stetson hat that's Bum Phillips Stetson hat.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_08: Don't tell anybody.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Also a lot of a lot of gift buying in this era.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_08: Well, we uh apparently like it's like a good-natured rivalry.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_08: It's not like the bitter rivalry that it would become in the 80s.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_08: It's definitely like a very respectful, yes.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_08: Much like how us in Baltimore are like we're gonna beat each other's brains out, but it's nothing, you know, it's just competitive.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_08: It's yeah, yeah.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like 70s the 70s rivalry was like what Steelers Baltimore is now, and the 80s rivalry, 90s rivalry was more like what Steelers in Cincinnati was a few years ago.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_08: Or even Steelers Raiders back in the 70s.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_08: So here's a story that I don't know if Tim will remember this, but the Dan Pastorini flakjacket story.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_08: We actually went over this in Bible class in high school.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_08: I remember this story distinctly.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_08: So heading down the stretch of the 1978 season, the Houston Oilers were in prime position to make a run in the playoffs with a nine and four record.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_08: The Steelers came to town, they beat him up and hurt poor on a play.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_08: Houston quarterback Dan Passerini dropped back the pass, looked to his left, spot an open receiver, and he gets rid of the ball.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_08: But as he's getting rid of the ball, Pittsburgh defensive tackle, Steve Furness blast him in the rib cage.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_08: And um he actually suffered three broken ribs in that game.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_08: This being 1978.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_08: Uh people don't come out of games, you know, but you're gonna play.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_08: Like that would be now he'd be like done for the season, probably.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_08: So when he's in the hospital, these two guys actually like sneak in the hospital and come in his room, you know.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_08: And they have the one guy has a baseball bat, and Pastorini's thinking, oh my goodness, this guy's gonna like beat the crap out of me because they lost like a bet or something, you know.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_08: And here it is, the one guy's wearing a flak jacket and he doesn't realize, and Dan the other guy like hits this guy as hard as he can, and it like doesn't hurt because he has a flak jacket on.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_08: And you know, so the guy who invented this flak jacket is named Byron Donzess or Don.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_08: And he took it, he took it out and they put it on, and he hit the guy a couple times, and Pastorini was really impressed.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_08: He said, I'd like to have one of those.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_08: So turns out this guy who Byron guy was a military engineer, and he actually designed this vest for Navy SEALs.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_09: Oh wow.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_08: So it helps actually helps Pastorini play, and he actually takes the oilers to the championship game, but once again, they get blown out by the Steelers.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_08: So I do you remember that?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_08: You don't remember that at all.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's amazing.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_08: And because I remember you telling me that it's like, oh yeah, the next week you got blown out by the Steelers.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_08: Because like that was like, oh, uh a lesson in trust, because you know, I guess he had his friend just, hey, just wear this and let me know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_08: Beat the crap out of you with a baseball pack.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I do not remember that.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I I Steve, have you ever broken your ribs?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_08: No, I have not.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I just um very recently uh was shoveling snow in my driveway and I had one of those like banana peel like slips and I I ended up um badly bruising them.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know how I didn't break my ribs, but it felt so no Steve Furness involved in this at all.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, this was just me being clumsy.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but when I went to the hospital, um the lady the doctor told me, well, bruised and broken, you're you're still gonna feel the same amount of pain.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce bruised just heals a little quicker.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a a week there where I couldn't like if I sat perfectly still, it only hurt a little bit.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: But then if I like moved to my right to go like pick up a my phone or something, it was like the most intense pain.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know how Dan Pastorini like I get I get wearing it so that you don't get hit again, but just the the dropping back to throw a football, my goodness.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I people were just I guess just a little tougher back then, or maybe just tougher than me.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that's impressive that he came back and played with three broken ribs.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, and I mean played pretty well too.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_08: I mean you know, well enough, like because that happened before the playoffs, like well enough to beat the other two.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_08: I think they beat the Raiders and they beat somebody else before they had to play the Steelers.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they always had to go in.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other impressive thing about the Oilers of this era.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because they were in the same division, they always had to be the wild card.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that meant, like you said, more playoff games and they always had to play on the road.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_08: And like tougher teams, too.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_08: Like, you know, you're not you're playing a divisional, not a divisional.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing the higher seeds, yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_08: So that brings us to probably the more controversial part of this I don't know, part of the rivalry.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_08: In 1979, the championship came, and the Oilers were probably the second best team in football, and the Steelers were definitely the best team still, although kind of in a downward trend.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_08: We went over this in a podcast a couple months back.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_08: Um Terry Bradshaw actually had a great game.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_08: It was he was 18 for 30 with two touchdowns and interception.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_08: And the Oilers do lose 27 to 13.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_08: But the controversial play is a catch by Mike Renfro.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_08: Well, here we'll play the catch there.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_08: Well, not catch.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_05: With a minute and a half remaining in the third quarter, the oil are six yards away from a time.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_05: tie.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_05: It is Renpro.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_05: Touchdown.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_05: Or is it?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we're going to see it on the replay, We'll be able to decide whether or not Renfro can speak.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: feet down in time.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: It was a tough call, and this might be a spot where an instant replay would be important.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see if the feet come down.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now he's got the ball.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: He does get inside.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is a touchdown.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_05: It was not called one, but there's no doubt that was a Houston touchdown.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they haven't made a final decision in the end zone.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're still down there talking about it.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now there's no question about this.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's got control, he had both feet down clearly in the end zone.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is a touchdown.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, the officials do not have the luxury that we enjoy of seeing that instant replay.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_05: The man on the spot didn't see it, so he couldn't call it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_05: And now the Oilers are denied a touchdown.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my bum could just eat that cowboy hat.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_08: And so obviously, a minute to go in the third quarter, that would have been a tie game going into the fourth quarter.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, would Houston have won?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe, maybe not.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_08: The Steelers were pretty pretty good in the fourth quarter, especially Terry Bradshaw.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_08: But and they still did win by two touchdowns, so maybe the Steelers only win by one touchdown.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_08: You never know.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_08: And this is this would I would say is one of those plays that ended up when when did instant replay come in the NFL?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_08: Was that 85?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was yeah, it was like mid-80s.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so this is probably like one of the biggest plays that ushered in instant replay for the first time before they got rid of it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and to be totally fair, Steve, that's a terrible call.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was a touchdown.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I mean, I don't think like they said, I think the guy got screened.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_08: I think the official got screened and couldn't see it.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's still the wrong call.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was that was definitely.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_08: Well, you have if you listen to the Myer Myron Cope even says that he thought it was a touchdown.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_08: If you listen to the um home broadcasts, that's the national broadcast.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know, was that Mar who was the uh I didn't recognize the I know that was uh what's his name?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Dick Enberg.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_08: Dick Enberg, but I didn't know who the color guy is.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was Marlon Olsen.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_08: That was Merlin Olson.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_08: I I mean, like I said, I think you know it it's a shame that it didn't get called, but I I think the Steelers could have still I mean it's probably still likely the Steelers probably still win that game.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: That would have made the game 17-17 instead of 17-13, and then the Steelers won 27 to 13.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if if you listen to like LC Greenwood and those guys, they're just like, yeah, it was a bad call, but who cares?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: We won by like you said, Steve, we won by two touchdowns.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did did it really impact the result?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's a fair question to ask.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you could say that it deflated the, you know, because football's such a game of momentum and and and back and forth.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And did that like totally deflate them?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, but I don't know, you gotta be able to overcome that.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that if that happens now, if that happens in like the last two minutes of the game and they would have tied it and they took that away from them, I it's a way bigger deal at that point.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I think I uh yeah, it is true.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_08: Like they had 15 more minutes to score two touchdowns.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_08: So they definitely got the ball two more times after that.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_08: So be that as it may, I mean, you know, if and buts, right?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_08: So um, you know, there's actually video of uh Wade Phillips, who is Bum Phillips' son, who was coaching uh up in the booth like in during this play, like we scored a touchdown.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_08: It's pretty interesting to watch because Wade Phillips ends up going on to have a a pretty you know good coaching career of his own.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_08: So on the aftermath of this era, um Houston, did you know this?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_08: Houston actually had a pep rally each of the years that they came back from losing the um AFC championship game.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_08: And they actually like 50,000 people met them in the Astrodome to have it.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_08: Like one year it was just totally impromptu at the airport, and so many people wanted to do it the next year.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_08: They actually opened up the Astrodome and let all the fans go in there.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_08: And um I think that was the infamous quote where um Bum Phillips during that peppery said, We're going uh we're going to kick the door in.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_08: One year ago we knocked uh knocked one year ago we knocked on the door.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_08: This year we beat on the door, next year we're going to kick the son of a pep.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_08: There you go, Tim.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_08: Bum Phillips.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_08: Unfortunately, he never really did get that chance.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_08: Um Houston, they had a pep rally for their uh AFC championship loss.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Steelers won their fourth Super Bowl.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Houston actually the next year got rid of Pasterini and brought in some guy named Ken Stabler.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_08: Ever heard of him, Tim?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_08: Another, another uh Hall of Famer.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_08: Um Bud Adams fires Bum Phillips in 1980 after going 11-5 and losing in the playoffs to the Raiders.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_08: And uh have you heard of that?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_08: This is kind of controversial, huh, Tim?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_08: Like uh it's there's two different like I've seen internet rumor that it was because he didn't disclose a drug use by a player, or it's because he was like he didn't want to hire an offensive coordinator.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_08: So I don't know what to tell you on that one.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, getting fired after going 11 and 5 and basically being the second best team in the NFL, that's a pretty rough way to go.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it it didn't work out.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Houston went totally in the tank after that, too.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like they were they were like literally They were worse off for it after that.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were like literally one win, two win.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: That that kind of like level of bad.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and getting rid of Pastorini was kind of odd too.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure the the context behind that.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the the goofy thing was he went to I don't know if this was a trade or or or just signings, but he went to Oakland and Stabler came to Houston, and then Oakland ends up winning the Super Bowl in 1980, but not with Pastorini.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was their opening day starter.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_08: He got hurt, I think he got hurt again.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jim Plunkett, who was like this journeyman who had who like I think won the Heisman maybe.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was like really good college quarterback, and had flamed out in the NFL.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: He he ends up leading the Raiders to a Super Bowl victory.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: So just a weird like turn of events there.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, I'm not sure all the context behind that.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're not obviously not a Houston Oilers podcast, but but uh yeah, interesting that that happened.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and Bud Adams always struck me as a very stubborn kind of guy.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you wonder what exactly happened there with Bob Phillips and everything.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, I not disclosing drug use by a player, I guess.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe I I don't know.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_08: Like you said, there probably needs to be more context to that, but yeah, that's the two reasons I found.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_08: Um Chuck Knoll for his part goes on the coach till 1991 and has won four Super Bowls.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_08: And um I do believe uh Bum Phillips still has zero.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_08: And uh uh Wade does does Wade did Wade Phillips ever get a Super Bowl ring?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_08: I think he did with the Rams a couple years back.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and he I thought he was a defensive coordinator in Denver too.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: That year they had Peyton Manning on the defense.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so yeah, he did get a flowers on the room.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wade Phillips, one of those guys that um terrible head coach, but brilliant, brilliant coordinator.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_08: Well, they shut down Tom Brady in that one Super Bowl that the Rams lost and you know is still like what was it, 13 to 6 or something in the final?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_08: So anyway, uh moving on to an era that both I and Tim are more familiar with.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_08: And once again, there's might be some overlap between this and the jerk oilers, but I think as this era went on, it faded a little bit more from jerk to these are just two good teams, you know.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_08: So in ninety-two, uh Bill Cowers hired.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_08: Now um Jerry Glanville has been fired in '89, and they hire a guy named Jack Pardee, who is kind of a nice guy, like the good cop.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_08: And but uh Jack Pardee's mistake is he hires Buddy Ryan as Kevin.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_08: I think Kevin Gilbride might have already been there, but bringing in Buddy Ryan to coach your defense is probably a poor choice on his part.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a good choice for making it a good defense, but it's a bad choice if you want any kind of like uh I don't know game chemistry or yeah, right, right.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so uh neither team in this era wins a Super Bowl, but both appear at least one Super Bowl.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_08: Like I said, uh Bill Cowers first win was against those Oilers and on a Houston, in Houston on a fake punt.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_08: So we will go to that.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_08: Royals again.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_05: Oh fake, big fake first ring down, Great ending by Billy County.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_05: Warren Williams stretches to the one-yard line.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_08: So this is what first game of the season, obviously, since it's Cowers' first game.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_08: And um the Steelers ended up winning that one, didn't they?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_08: I don't have the score.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they were losing, they were losing into time.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 14-0.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I missed that play because it was it was we were losing to the Oilers again in Houston, and even though there was a new coach, it was like, okay, here we go again.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I had left the room for some reason because I just you know, and and my dad, I remember this.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: My dad calls me, yells from the other room, come back in, the Steelers just did a fake punt.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember at this point, my only context for football is Chuck Knowle.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_08: And I'm like Chuck Knoll.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I well I like I don't know that I even knew you could do a fake punt.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was that against the rules?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like just fake punt?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, Chuck Knoll would have never, you know, Chuck Knoll never ran stuff like that.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was kind of the moment for Bill Cower when everybody was like, oh my gosh, this guy's different.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and they end up winning that game.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_08: It actually so I didn't look up the final score, but I know it was like a slow, sloppy kind of game.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_08: So in another game that uh Tim remembers very fondly, um 1992, the Oilers 20, Steelers 21.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_08: Um, this is a pivotal game for control of the division.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_08: It's a back and forth game.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Warren Moon gets concussed.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_08: You don't get to say concussed a lot in early, and guess who comes in to play quarterback for the Houston Oilers, Tim?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: The commander.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_08: Commander Cody Carlson.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_08: So you were at this game, Tim.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_08: Were you having flashbacks?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_08: Were you worried when the commander came in?
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_08: I was why did you hurt you were like, why did you hurt Warren Moon?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_08: No.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and it actually comes true because uh the commander has a decent game.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_08: There was a fumble by uh Neil O'Donnell or that was uh returned for a touchdown, or maybe it was Bubby Brewster.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_08: It was Neil, yeah.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_08: It was Neil, yeah.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_08: Um, but then at the end, uh he throws a big pass to Eric Green on a third and sixteen who picks it up, and they score a touchdown on a pass to Eric Eric Green to take the lead.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_08: Barry Foster has over a hundred yards, and the game ends.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_08: A game on the line.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_06: Stealers by one.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_06: Six seconds to go.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_06: A thirty-nine-year attack.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_06: Nice step by Brickler.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_08: Wow, people are really going nuts, and this is just like a random regular Not a random, but this is a regular season game.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_08: And that's like playoff level intensity.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_08: Now, I didn't realize this, but when you see that replay, you can see the field goal posts are shaking, so there must have been some wind.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_08: And I think that didn't like not that the river stadium was that hard to kick in, but Aldo Greco shanks it.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and to your point about everybody going like super nuts.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: The the the context to that, so I was so like Steve said, I was at that game, and I think honestly, the context to that was the Steelers had this new coach, Bill Cower.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: They'd started off the season really good, they were like five and three, but so were the Oilers.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this was really gonna give because the Steelers had beaten the Oilers in that first game, this was gonna give them pretty much control of the division if they could win.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and we had spent the last what, twelve years always losing those kinds of games.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we talked about the eighties and then into the nineties, Uh there wasn't a whole lot to celebrate.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I I think that reaction that you saw there was almost like this release of just oh my gosh, this is a new era.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: This the the the mediocre sucky years are finally over and and we just won this huge, massive game against this hated rival.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: The the other thing I'll say about that was that it was about two weeks after the Sid Bream slide.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think again, you you combine that with all the years of SOR letdowns, and I think that reaction was just a release of excitement and energy.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've been going to SOR games since 1987.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think the only other game where I saw people that excited was the 2008 championship game when Troy made that interception against Flacco and returned it all the way.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally the only other time I've seen the people in the stadium just go that insane.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_08: So uh it's you can't even hear Marv Albert on the broadcast.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_08: It was that loud.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you watch the replay, there's people like on the pirate dugouts, like like dumping on the dugouts.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it was pandemonium.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you said, it's a it's it's a game, it's a r regular season game that not many people will remember, but I'll I'll never forget.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: I saw the ticket stuff because I kept it all these years because it was such a memorable, memorable game.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, fun game too.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_08: Good good back and forth and you know, fumbles, and it wasn't it wasn't poorly played, and even though you had c the commander come in, Commander was a good good backup.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_08: He he was he wasn't gonna win you the Super Bowl, but I get the feeling he was just one of those guys of like a very good backup.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_08: And Eric Green was some clutch catches, huh?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_08: At the end of the game, Tim.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Eric Green was really, really good for a while there.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I forgot you forget how good he was.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_08: I mean and Barry Foster, that was yeah, that was that was a good thing.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_08: And Aldell Greco missing a clutch field goal.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_08: What a shocker.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_08: He missed a lot of clutch.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_08: He was the opposite of clutch.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_08: He really was.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_08: Good golfer, though.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_08: So uh moving on, and um we're gonna sum up two games at the same time here.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_08: It's kind of like uh two games where they're blowouts one way or the other, but there's one thing these games get in common.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_08: So in 1993, the Steelers lose in Houston 23-3, and and that's in week 13.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_08: And I remember they just got blown out.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_08: I think Neil O'Donnell got hurt at some point and had to bring in some guy named Mike Tomzak, right?
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_08: So fast forward three years later to 1996, and the Steelers are the ones this time doing the beating, and they're up 30 to 16.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, it might not have been at that point, but they're they have a lead in the first half.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_08: And so the one game, I think it's just after an interception or something, Tomzack gets in a fight with a defensive player.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_08: And then the after, you it the guy I mean, it was kind of after the play, like a guy maybe had fumbled, maybe it hasn't, but the defensive player picks it up and is running around and like just totally roughs up like Tomzak after the whistle.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_08: So Tom Zack throws him on the turf and then a big fight ensues.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_08: So we will play both of them.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_08: And it's funny that these are three seasons apart.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_08: This is the most Mike Tomzak thing ever.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's Tomzak on the ground.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I say rip this helmet off and Oh, and then slugs him.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_04: Look, that's gonna that should cost him big money.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's stupid.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_04: The hockey night isn't until Tuesday, right?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's ridiculous.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_04: That is classless football.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the kid's a great football player and he goes acts in a classless manner.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_04: There's absolutely no call for that.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because there's absolutely no quarter.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_04: What's a quarterback gonna say to him?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's not like it's some big lineman he's been pounding on all day.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_04: You shouldn't be smiling, you should be embarrassed, Michael.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_08: So, and that was the Buddy Ryan defense, and there was on that clip, there's like a shoddy Buddy Ryan like smiling and giving that guy a high five after that.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, so you're the 1993 thing, okay, it's Buddy Ryan, you're kind of a jerk team.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe maybe it's just uh you know a Buddy Ryan thing.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_08: So let's go to 1996 and see if things have changed at all with our friends down in Houston.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is at Three Rivers in 96.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_08: Now we're at Three Rivers.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: As we are down to the two-minute warning, now they've got up after the flags all over the field, and we could have a tag team event here, Beasley.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: That was Tom Zack and number 31 Marcus Robertson going out.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's what started the whole thing here, Beasley.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's Marcus picking up the ball.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Running into Tom Zack.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_09: Uh-oh.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: And Marcus thought that was a big much.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: And oh man, he's dragging him by the helmet.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_05: Personal foul.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_05: Unnecessary roughness.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_05: Number 38 is disqualified from Houston.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: You've heard a lot of noise over the years in this stadium.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is one of the great crowds in football, But I've never heard this loud booming of any money or any game.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: They better get some security around him.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he needs to keep his helmet on.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_08: So that's the uh the uh what should I say, the throwback combination of Don Cricky and Beasley Reese, which I always love doing our games.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_08: I I know a lot I'm maybe in the you know the minority of that opinion, but uh I always loved the old Beasley Reese, Don Cricky games.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_08: Um so uh is it because Tom Zack was, you know, was Tom Zack the problem?
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_08: Was it just the Oilers? 'Cause that's two different Oiler defenders that he got in the and then he i literally in the second one in ninety six the guy drags him around by his helmet.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's funny that uh in Both both times the it's framed by the referees and the announcers that the defender is the bad guy.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean which I mean the the defender in both cases definitely what definitely was in the wrong, but Tomzak Tomzak also wasn't just like standing there doing nothing.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_08: So well the defender did run into him in 96.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_08: The other one I think was after a pass rush or something.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, but Tomzak also throws down.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, they're both throwing punches.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_09: Yep.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_08: So Mike Tomzak uh not afraid to pick a fight with a Houston Oiler.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_08: No.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_08: So, you know, okay, that's enough of that, right?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_08: Well, in that same game in 96, we apparently didn't have enough fighting.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_08: So um, so who do you think this would involve, Tim?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_08: Um maybe a big defensive lineman or a linebacker or a feisty wide receiver, right?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_08: Those are the guys that are gonna get in a fight.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_08: Nope.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_08: Our punter, and it wasn't even our starting punter, it was our backup punter decided to start a fight in this chain game.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_08: So now the Steelers, it's a like a minute 48 left, and the Steelers are winning like 30 to 16 or 30 to 14, and it's like this game is over, and they're gonna punt back to Houston.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_08: Who cares?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_08: Punt the ball as long as it doesn't get blocked or returned for a touchdown.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_08: This game's pretty much over, right?
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_08: Because even if they score, it's still like 30 to 20, you know, or 21.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_08: It's not nowhere near a game.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_08: Well, Shane Edge decides, for reasons I still have trouble comprehending, to do the old intentional safety.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_08: So he runs around in the end zone, and I guess he thought he was gonna run a minute 48 off the clock.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know how you do that.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_08: But like, so he's like kind of screwing around, like trying to run out the clock, and a guy from Houston just goes up and pushes him out of bounds.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_08: Like, what do you expect the guy from Houston to do?
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_08: Just let you stand there for the next one minute 48.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_08: So, um I and they give Houston a safety, and there's a big fight, and Shane Edge gets kicked out, which is just even better because now they have to do a free kick without their punter.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_08: So um, we'll play the audio here.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: Jane Edge was out of the end zone, takes a safety rather than risk a return.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: Got a lot of guys.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_03: Jane Edge got two two right crosses to the This is unfortunate like in return.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the jump one of that the smart thing to do is keep your helmet out of it because the jump line out of the stand.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: Shane edge actually got two right crosses to the solar flexes.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Two right crosses to the solar flexes.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_08: Let's go to the judge's scorecard.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Shane Edge not only thought he could run a minute forty off the clock, also thought he could connect um punches with a guy wearing his helmet.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: So and shoulder pads.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: And shoulder pads.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: So Shane Edge did not have a long Steel career, but I think it was four weeks.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_08: Because Josh Miller was hurt with a hernia or something, so they needed a punter for a couple weeks to fill in.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_08: Um I I don't know what to make of all that, except for that's it.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_08: That was it for Shane Edge.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know if he punted anywhere else.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_08: I don't think so.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_08: So uh, you know, as for Buddy Ryan, you know, he's most remembered in Houston for punching Kevin Gilbright during a game against the Jets.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_08: Um Kevin Gilbright actually became offensive coordinator with the Steelers.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_08: Do you remember that, Tim?
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we covered that in our history of the offensive coordinator episode.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_08: A lot of crossover in this one.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_08: Um you know, the Oilers won that one game 23-3, but the Steelers that was the 1993 game.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_08: Steelers still make the playoffs at 9-7.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_08: The Oilers actually won the division in 93 at 12-4.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_08: But both of us lost to Kansas City in some guy named Joe Montana.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_08: We more or less lost to them because DJ Johnson kicked the Kansas City player in a head, and Mark Royals got a punch block.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_08: So they were so used to playing the Oilers we decided to play like them when we played Kansas City.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_08: So not our finest hours there.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_08: So in '94, things start to change.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_08: They fire Jack Pardee, they hire Jeff Fisher.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_08: Bill Cower is still the coach.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_08: And I think at that point the mentality started to change.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Jeff Fisher does have in common, like Jerry Glanville, he was the team's defensive coordinator for a couple years, and then the interim coach.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_08: And then I guess is what Bud Adams likes to do.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_08: He's like the make his intern coaches head coaches.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_08: So um you know, he makes Jed Jeff Fisher the head coach for the next, oh my goodness, forever.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_08: He was there forever.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_08: And um, you know, is Jeff Fisher a good coach to him?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I I never definitely not a bad coach, but they were always they were almost always competitive with him as a coach.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_08: So and in this era, I will say this, they went through three cities in three years from 1995 to 1998, and they were either seven and nine or eight and eight.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's impressive.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_08: With I mean, I think who were their quarterbacks?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_08: Oh I think they had Carlson, they definitely had Chris Chandler.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_08: Uh uh before McNair started, yeah.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was Chris Chandler, you're right, it was Chris Chandler.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_08: So um then in 99, like we said, they make the Super Bowl, the Titans, but they fall short by one yard.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_08: Because in 95 they had drafted some guy named Steve McNair.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_08: But another more important thing happens in 1995.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_08: Bud Adams decides that after years, he like every time a team leaves town, it's over a stadium, it seems, and he wanted to remodel the Astrodome, and the people in Houston didn't, because they had already remodeled it and paid their taxes to remodel it.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_08: But now he wants a whole new stadium because he's Bud Adams and he's a little nuts.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_08: So he decides, well, I'm gonna move the team to Nashville.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_08: But the problem is Nashville doesn't have an NFL stadium and um they need to build one, and it's gonna take a couple years.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_08: And uh so now they're stuck in Houston for like two years, two or three years.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_08: It wasn't like when Cleveland left, Cleveland was gone in like one year.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_08: There was no long this is gonna be two seasons, and as soon as he announced that, they just like everybody in Houston stopped going to the games, and the attendance was really, really bad.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_08: So basically, they ended up moving a year early.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_08: You remember that, Tim?
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_08: Remember, they they actually left a year early and moved to Memphis and played in the Liberty Bowl.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_08: And there was a game in 1997 where they played in Memphis and three-quarters of the fans were Steeler fans, and it was the largest crowd of the Titan of well, they're still the Oilers, because you know, Tennessee's such an oil-producing state.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot I forgot that when they first moved, they were called the Tennessee Oilers for a couple years.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I totally forgot about that.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_08: One or two years, yeah.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_08: And then I think 97 they finally changed their name to the Titans.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_08: Um the Steelers go to the Super Bowl 30 in that period.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_08: Neil O'Donnell happens.
• 1:13:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_08: Um in 1998, I remember there was a game 41-31.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_08: I think it was a blowout game where Eddie George finally had a good game against us, and I kind of knew the Steelers were very much in trouble.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_08: Another thing that happens from 97 to 2001, do you I not a lot of people I I didn't remember this.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_08: The Pi Titans actually won Oilers slash Titans won six in a row against the Steelers.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_08: The Steelers did not beat them for like two two seasons, two and a half seasons.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I remember that we often lost to McNair in that era.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Often.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_08: So McNair's getting good.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_08: They got Eddie George.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_08: I got a guy named Frank Wychek as like a hybrid tight end.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_08: Kind of like like if he played in the offenses now, could you he'd be like George Kittle pretty much?
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_08: But in 2000, there's a game.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_08: Um the Titans actually win this 23-20.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_08: And this is a funny game because I know you remember.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_08: Were you at this one, Tim?
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, geez.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_08: My condolences.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_08: Um, Cordell Stewart is not the starting quarterback.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_08: It's Kent Graham.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_08: But they put him in and he rushes for a touchdown, and the Steelers are leading late.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_08: And do you know why they're leading late?
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_08: Because Neil O'Donnell, who's now playing for the Titans, has thrown an interception.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_08: And you figure, oh, everything's going well.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_08: We're probably gonna, you know, it's a close game, but maybe we'll win it.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_08: But what happens is uh was it Jason Gilden who hit uh Neil O'Donnell?
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_08: That was really the mistake they made was um they hit Neil O'Donnell and hurt him, and that meant Steve McNair had to come in.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_08: And you figure, well, Steve McNair's got a Bruce Sternum, he probably won't be able to do too much, will he, Tim?
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_08: Huh?
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_08: He his first two passes were bad, but then he kind of settled in and he hit like his next two or three, and he um I think he I forget if he threw a touchdown the Y checker, but he threw a touchdown like with a couple minutes left to go to give the Titans the lead.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_08: And Cordell, uh then Kent Graham gets hurt, and Cordell has to come in.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_08: So there were literally four different quarterbacks played in this game.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_08: And Cordell like only completes one pass, but he's able to rush enough to get us in the field goal range.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_08: But unfortunately, Chris Brown is our kicker, so his uh kick of 50 yards is short and no good.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_08: But uh once again, just an example of like Steve McNair killing the Steelers.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: The really impressive thing about that game was he said McNair had a Bruce Sternum.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: That that was against Kansas City the previous game.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's a he actually ended up in the hospital, and he told his mother and he told Jeff Fisher that he was done.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I'm not playing football anymore.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was that bad of an injury, and he just couldn't he was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And his mother actually talked to it.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, if you want to quit, that's fine, but don't don't go out on somebody else's terms, right?
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_08: Or don't don't do it in the middle of the season, yeah.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: That too.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_00: But but I mean and so he makes the trip to Pittsburgh and they dress him, which was a shocker that they even dressed him because he was that he was in the hospital, he was in a hospital bed.
• 1:16:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they dress him, and he doesn't play, of course.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then when O'Donnell gets hurt, Fisher, the story was Fisher looked at him and McNair just winked and got his helmet on and then goes and beats the Steelers with like a 75-yard drive.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I just I remember sitting in that game, just like throwing out my hands, like, we'll just never beat this guy.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like we this is never we can never we're just never gonna beat him.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, he was that good.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_08: That good.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_08: Like I said, they were within a yard.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_08: He got them within a yard of winning the Super Bowl.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yep.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_08: Um in 2001, the Steelers finally break the six-game losing streak, and this is in Heinz Field.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_08: And um Plexigo Burris makes an unbelievable catch.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_08: I remember this game too.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_08: Like Cordot had a really good game.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_08: That was that 2001 season where Cordell was really good.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_08: And then uh I think later in that season, maybe it was alright.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_08: This was um the Steelers 34, Tennessee 24.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_08: This was in Nashville.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_08: They finally got that stadium built, huh, Tim?
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_08: Um now they're building a new one.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_08: Can you believe that?
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_08: I guess the taxpayer in Nashville are gonna pony up unlike the ones in Houston.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_08: Well, they ponied up eventually.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_08: They did.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, everybody will.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they want to or not.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_08: So uh he has a great game.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_08: The Cordell has a great game, and they hold off to win the Titans.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_08: And actually, for once, uh do we this is the answer to your question, Tim.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_08: Will we ever beat Steve McNair?
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Mike Logan makes a nice interception that's of Steve McNair at the end of this game.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_08: So and the Steelers have won two in a row against the Titans for the first time in probably four or five seasons.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_08: So there we did get the best of McNair in that one.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_08: In 2002, um, this is more like this is another blowout.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_08: Like we're getting blown out.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_08: We got blown out a lot by Dennis.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_08: And uh Tommy Maddox is having a good season, but um, this game not so much.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_08: And uh this happens towards the end of the third quarter.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_05: Maddox in trouble yet get off the match won a round the level.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_05: We've got Tommy Maddox is down and he has not moved.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_05: That is scary.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_05: That is scary looking.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_08: So at that point, Tommy Maddox had been having like this resurgent season and had gotten the Steelers back in contention, and now they were in separate divisions.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_08: This is like a separate divisions at that point, but this was still a big game in the AFC.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_08: And Tommy Maddox got hit by I think his Keith Bullock, and he actually got what do they call it, spinal concussion.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_08: And he was actually paralyzed for a short period of time until he finally was able to regain feeling in his you know extremities.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_08: And he walks around, and I mean he's okay for the most part, but um that was a scary moment for Maddox.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_08: And I've heard people say, Oh, the Tennessee fans were cheering and not very classy at that point.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know, I wasn't there.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time when that happened, he he wasn't moving and they had to get the ambulance out and everything.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you thought like that's the end of Tommy Maddox's career.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe hopefully he can walk, right?
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but he's definitely not gonna play football after that.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And amazingly, he was back a few weeks later because, like you said, it ended up ended up being one of those things that looked a lot worse than it was, thank God.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_08: It wasn't good, but it wasn't career ending, thank goodness.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_08: And that was kind of like kind of like looked what happened to um Ryan Shazir years later against Cincinnati.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when the Ryan Shazier thing happened, the next day everybody's like, well, hopefully that's like the like the Tommy Maddox thing.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember everybody kept referencing that.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and it obviously it was it was he was walking, but he's never gonna play football.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was much worse than the Tommy Maddox thing, and yes, he never played again.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_08: So that brings us to 2002, which is that same season.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_08: Um now we're playing the Titans in the playoffs, and this is a divisional round playoff game in Nashville.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_08: And it's a tightly contested game between the two teams.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_08: And uh the Titans are on in pretty like close field goal range, and this is of course sudden death overtime, and they are about to kick the field goal.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_08: Joe Nedney is their kicker, and he's going to eliminate the Steelers and end their season, right, Tim?
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_08: So all this happens in that game to lead up, and we'll play the highlight here.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_05: 31-yard field goal by Nedney to advance to the end of season.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_05: Championship.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_05: No God.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_05: Megney misses and then a penalty flag down where he kicked the ball.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's running into the kicker.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_05: Number 20.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_07: Defense.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_07: Five yards.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_07: Dwayne Watson second.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_08: Now, what the re what that replay doesn't do justice is when that happened, like all these fireworks went on for like five minutes.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_08: And like it was the best icing that you could ever hope for.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_08: And he had a he had missed it, and what had happened was Day Dwayne Washington, as he was diving in, fell in front of him, and I'm saying Nedney stepped into him.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_08: You can say maybe Washington, who was on the ground at the time, not in the air, on the ground, slid into Nedney's plant leg, but Nedney pulls the biggest flop this side of you know European soccer.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, it was the biggest dive I've ever seen in the NFL, and the officials bought it.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_08: It just it was ridiculous.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's such a terrible way for the season to end, because it's like, oh my gosh, he missed, he missed, we're gonna get another chance.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like roughing the kicker.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll say two things.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_00: One, yes, Nedney flopped.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: He even he even joked about it.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, oh, I should have won the Oscar or whatever his quote was.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I will also say, like, what the heck was Wayne Washington doing?
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you weren't gonna block that kick.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You you just weren't.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he just did this desperation dive.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_00: It it it's I I've always hated that, like, where where somebody um gets that penalty and it had no effect on the play.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It had no effect on the play, just just he's either gonna make it or he's gonna miss it.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're you're not gonna like it.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_08: Unless you're there when he's about to kick it and block it.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_08: That's yeah.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, so if you but if you're gonna do that, dive in front of him.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't dive at him.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I think he did.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_08: He did.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_08: He just he slid just uh like when he hit the ground, he kind of slid, and then he was close enough that where Nedney I always felt Nedney leaned in.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a flop.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think he he Nedney embellished and he got the call.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if Dwayne Washington Dwayne Washington knocked it anywhere.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just you weren't gonna block it.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's no reason to do that.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just let him kick and let him miss or make it.
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not gonna block that kick.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I I blame Dwayne on that as well.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_08: Well, here's the highlight of him actually making the kick.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_06: This is
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_08: after.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_05: He then sits one and Tennessee advances to the championship game.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_06: And I think Bill Coward is telling Ron Glum, the kind of run out of there, huh?
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he he ran up to the referee and like did like the two fingers like in his chest kind of thing.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and I mean again, I get it.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I get why Cower was upset, but at the same time, like Washington dove and the kicker fell over.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it's yeah, it's kind of a textbook penalty.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, I I for if I was very angry at the time.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was totally unfair.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_00: In retrospect, I think that Dwayne shouldn't have been anywhere near the kicker.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_08: Why even give the official the option of calling that?
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that too.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_00: That too.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could also say that it was like incidental contact, you know, and that that the because they've they've done that on paper before.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_08: Because like, what's to stop a kicker now?
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_08: Oh no, the kick's going left, or even not, just run in, just go run into somebody.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, how is that any different?
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_08: You know, go find a player that's you know in the line and just run up to him and fall down.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the spirit of the role is there to keep a defenseless kicker who's got his leg up in the air from getting injured.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the spirit of the role.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's why they have like the five-yard version and the 15-yard version, but it's like it's still a judgment call because, like you said, it it could be that the kicker just ran a few steps up and collided with somebody, or it could be that the guy was rushing at him and and took a cheap shot.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's a judgment call.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is what it is at this point, I guess.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_08: Well, the Steelers lose.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_08: That's kind of the end of the rivalry.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_08: It is uh in my mind, that's the end of really the rivalry.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, and um what had happened was the teams played each other every year from 1970 until 2001.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and they were in the same division, and that was the AFC Central.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and actually, way back when, when they were dividing it up, when the Steelers had to go from the NFL to the AFL, this division was fought for by Dan Rooney.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_08: And he actually had Al Davis wanted Houston in, I guess, the AFC West or whatever.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_08: And Dan Rooney said, if you don't do that, we're gonna walk.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_08: Like put them in the AFC Central.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_08: So Dan Rooney really wanted this team in his division.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of funny.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of those weird geography things because Houston, Houston is more west than Kansas City.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I guess he figured they could have the Kansas City rivalry and we'll start up a rivalry with Houston.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It worked out.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_08: And then in um 95, um, they added Jacksonville.
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_08: So we had a we had like the largest division there for a while.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_08: I think we had the most teams in our streets.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_08: Six teams, yeah.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_08: And the NFL was completely realigned in 2002 by Dan Rooney.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_08: So the reason this ended was because of Dan Rooney.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_08: And so the Houston moves to the AFC South, which has Indianapolis, uh, who else?
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_08: Uh Tennessee.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, well, yeah, Indianapolis, Tennessee, slash Houston.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_08: Um blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_08: Who's Texans?
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, the the new Texans, because that's when the new Houston came in.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_08: And Jacksonville.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_08: So old Houston and new Houston are in the same division.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_08: Um actually the Steelers believe it or not lead this series 40 to 17.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, is that one-sided?
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_08: Even with those six wins in a row by Tennessee.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_08: Um, there's been some stuff that maybe could be considered kind of controversial since the Tennessee Titans have left the division.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_08: In 2008, the Steelers get blown out 31 to 14.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_08: Um, remember Lendell White and Keith Bullock stomping on the Terrible Tau?
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, if the terror if this is such a curse against the Terrible Tau, then why didn't we just defeat them in the first place?
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_08: But I digress.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_08: Um in 2011, um, the the Steelers won 38 to 17.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, this is one of Ben's uh five touchdown games.
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_08: So fun times.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_08: Um in 2013, uh there's actually some NFL history.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_08: There's the quickest score in NFL history, and you say, wow, the Steelers must have been really good at scoring.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_08: And no, what it was was the kick returner for the um what's it called?
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_08: The uh Titans was uh Darius Renard, and he was standing like right on the goal line, and he caught the ball with his hands outside of the goal line, and then instead of just running for it and getting what he could get, he pulled the ball back over the goal line and took a knee.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_08: And so that is not a touchback, that is a safety tip.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, one second into the season, the Steelers had scored two points.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_08: But they ended up losing 16-9 to Jake Lockhart.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_08: Ouch.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_08: That that that's a rough one.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_08: So um I mean, just a great rivalry, a lot of fun, a lot of things, a lot of people, a lot of Hall of Famers in this one.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_08: Um, I do miss it.
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_08: I do miss the old Houston games, but um, yeah, we'll still we play Tennessee this year, but it's just it's just not the same playing them once every four years or so, or you know, it's just just not the same as Baltimore or Cleveland or Cincinnati.
• 1:30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I agree.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I miss it.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of fun, a lot of different eras of this, a lot of different iterations of it.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I miss it too.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, it's not the same.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's just nothing really there anymore, um, in terms of any kind of anything to talk about.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_08: So Yeah, I mean there's a couple blips there after, not really much of anything.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I I wonder in the AFC South if Houston has quite the rivalry with Jacksonville or Indianapolis, or you know.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_08: Well, you would think they would have it with Tennessee since they're in the same division, and you know, Tennessee kind of stole their team.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_08: But anyway, uh thanks for tuning in.
• 1:30:52
  SPEAKER_08: Um thanks for listening.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_08: Thanks for all the new people listening.
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_08: I hope you're enjoying our podcast.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_08: Uh keep uh word of mouth, keep uh liking us on your podcast services and check out our website.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_08: Um there'll be tons of fun links and stuff on there from all about the uh Steelers uh Oilers slash Titans rivalry.
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_08: And uh once again, thank you so much and uh God bless.
• 1:31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Houston has the Oilers, the greatest football team.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_01: We take the ball from gold to go like no one's ever seen.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the air, we're on the ground, always in control, and when you stay focused, yes, Houston football customers we're the the first Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers time.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_01: number one.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're the Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers number one.