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Transcript

The Woman From Hell | Elizabeth Sugrue · Beheaded

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season two, episode two.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying really hard at improving our intro.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a struggle.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: A struggle today to get started.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: I said it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Take 15.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Take 15.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like once we get going, we're going, and then we don't really stop.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: That intro sometimes takes us time because we're sitting staring at each other and like we're used to our usual cadence and things that we say training off, and sometimes we just get a little lost in the next part.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you said I'm Elizabeth Black, and then I'm like, and what do I say after the end?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I say.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do I say the date?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do I say our location?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Monday, November.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: We just keep going.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: 2020.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're still in 2020.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: About 7.05 p.m.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we're at Megan's house in her master suite.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what you're calling it?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: In a master.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's double doors on her closet.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's really close.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a king-sized bed.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't call it a suite.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's close.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We also found something today.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were like staging our snacks and drinks set up, you know, because we like to take some pictures for you guys for the Graham.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the Graham.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, so last time we kind of mentioned this because we were we had we're like on this stump.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do you describe this?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a nightstand, but it's a stump.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even a nightstand.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a little, it's like a short end table.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: That is what is it, made of metal?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: What on this is wooden.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Feel it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, feel it underneath.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like wood, right?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like a tree stump.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like a stylish spirit.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that's creepy.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a stylish looking tree stump.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I normally have it cute with like, I have my favorite um coffee table books.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: I have The Art of Harry Potter and The Tudor Chronicles.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I have my little plant and my little lamp.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so we started using this for podcasting.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: We put a blanket over it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: We did we made it like more, what do you call it?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um acoustically sound, you know?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like our little acoustic batting almost.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so today we were randomly like setting up and then we were talking about we call it the block now, because we're like, oh, it's our executioner's block, ha ha.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like one.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we're like, oh my god, wait, this is perfect for a picture because we literally have this block.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Jake has a sword, like a legit metal, what don't three foot swords in their bedroom?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you go to rent fairs, I feel like, oh, bless you.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth has allergies.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I swear it's not COVID.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I texted I texted Megan before this, and I was like, I had an allergy sniffly today, and it's not COVID.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the thing.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: When like I've known you for a while, and you always get allergies.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so do I.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And in this day and age, you can't just have allergies.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a culprit.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I walk around and I sneeze, and everyone gets me downstairs.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Don't go to Whole Foods right now, but you can come over here.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know that it's just allergies.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're making me sorry, I hope it's not a problem.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, I feel like anybody who goes to Renaissance fairs just have swords.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's a thing.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are they allow them in Renaissance fairs.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we bring that one.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as long as it's twined to your waist, I guess is the term, it's fine.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, so anyway, long story short, we set up the block and the sword, and we put our Jameis in because we have an Irish themed story today that we'll get into.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that we set that up with our drinks, and we're like, oh my god, like how do we never do this before?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And even even James.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Most people have an execution site like ready and a bedroom.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was telling Megan, she's slowly just bringing me to this block time after time.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, eventually, it's just not gonna go in a good direction for me.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, just in case there's any accidents, should sign this.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: I also uh expect an executioner's fee upon I have to oh to pay you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: They did pay the executioner.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: We have a great Irish thing going on today.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: We have some Irish mule we made with uh Jameson.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, she's saying Irish Mule.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Mule.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: She kept saying it to me, and I kept thinking she was saying Irish meal.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Do you want an Irish meal?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like that too.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I yeah, I want an Irish meal.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, No, it's a mule.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a ginger beer and Jameson drink with the lime, and it's fabulous.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just missing the copper glasses I know, or the mugs I mean, but that's okay.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, hint hints for Christmas.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if you hear the oh yeah, I heard this situation that's what's going on here.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I made Irish nachos.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Those are fabulous.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, like it's very legit.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think what they actually do in Ireland, especially circa 1700s.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, I what is it, potatoes and sour cream and chive, bacon, bacon, cheese.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's very healthy.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was our dinner.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's fabulous.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we have someone fun and Irish today, so we'll get into that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: But first we have a few follow-ups.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: We do from last episode.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: We had quite a few.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually had to go through like our episode and write them all down because we were like, we had a lot, I think, that we kind of teased you guys with or weren't sure about.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Proactive, do you have a pen?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Today while we're doing this.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Listen.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Good job.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna write down, or you're gonna write down, you're better at it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: You write down whenever we say, yeah, let's follow up on that.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll follow up because I say that frequently, I feel like, and then we don't follow up because we forget.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: If we ever do that, if we ever do that and you catch us, let us know because we try to be diligent about it, but you know, we are human.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Shocking.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we have a few.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna let you take away Valentine's Day.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was really cool.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So in our last episode, we were talking about um Catherine Howard, and we were like, how crazy that she was executed on February the 13th, and we're like the day before Valentine's Day, and then we're like, wait, was that even a thing back then?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Megan has the answer.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Valentine's Day was the beginning of it was in 496.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: 496?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's a little bit of time before.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's about a thousand years before Catherine Howard.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, they did have Valentine's Day, but even cooler was how Valentine's Day came about.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought I knew like little like random facts of history.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is a cool one.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I never knew this.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want me to explain that?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look, we were actually when we read it, we're like, this could be an episode, but we don't know if there's enough information to make it an episode.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll just give you a little like teaser.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's an execution story.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's an execution story.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Valentine's Day is an execution story.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a time where marriages were illegal because they wanted the men to be like strong soldiers without their wives and didn't want them to like worry about their wife at home.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for a period of time, they actually banned marriages.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: But there was a gentleman named St.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Valentine, or I guess at the time he was just Valentine.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he would do secret marriages for people who loved each other when they couldn't get married.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And he got arrested for this.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then he fell in love.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And this is in the Roman Empire?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or is that Roman Empire?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I didn't write down who he fell in love with.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was someone's daughter.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like the jailer or the sheriff or the judge or someone's prince.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Someone of high status in the legal realm.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: His daughter.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: See, and we're we're on purposely being vague so that we can talk about it more in the future.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he fell in love with their daughter, and then they got married secretly on the day that he was meant to be executed, which was March.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, not March.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Which was February.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Which was St.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick's Day.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was about to go to.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: In Irish mode.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Which was February 14th, 496.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's very cool.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's St.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Valentine's Day.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: How cool is that?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually an execution story, weirdly enough.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're surprised we didn't know that.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we said, we're like, we usually know these kind of weird tidbits and we're not in person, I feel like.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Literally never myself.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So look that up.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Slash, we might cover it more in the future.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Slash, don't look it up.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'll tell you about it later on in episode.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh the next one we had was we had mentioned Catherine Howard's uh marriage to King King Henry VIII and how long it was.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, oh, it was 18 months, it might have been the shortest marriage that he's had.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: False, we looked it up.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um Anna Cleves was in fact only six months.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Anna Cleves is the shortest marriage.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because he did not like her.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, because she looks like a horse.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: She looks like a horse.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, go ahead.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, good transition.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of Henry.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: You gave me shit for being like, no one called him Harry.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because at one point, remember we were talking about the Harry thing, and she's like, no, they did call him Harry.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what the fuck?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, no one called him Harry.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Henry, Harry.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then she was adamant, like after we were done recording last time, Megan was like, No, she's like, Elizabeth, like, I promise you, like, there was a part in Tutors where yeah, like who's to say if he actually was called that?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: But in the tutors, which was my evidence, like that was my argument.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: In the she's like, I know for sure in the Tutors that Thomas Moore calls him that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's his nickname.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I think you're just delusional in making it up.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we sat there and she made me watch it, and sure enough, I forget what you know episode season it was.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Episode two, 17 minutes in.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: I made her sit there and wait till I found it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: It took her like, no, actually, not that long.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was surprised.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It probably took you 10 minutes to find.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was so commonly said throughout the entire show.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, he was like Harry.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: We say it Harry Potter, but it's not.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so he was called Harry, at least in the show.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know for sure in real life.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you said Catherine was also referred to Katie.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: You confirmed she was too.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: There was one other update that we have because I mistake.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, really quick, two other updates.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll let I'll do mine first because yours are more important.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the Oh, it is?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is nice of you.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: The only other update I had on my end, and sorry, my like nose is getting itchy, so sorry if I sound nasally.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was the heads on London Bridge.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that was cool.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you take that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: We kept talking about like, oh, how close are you?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Blah blah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and obviously, this is a huge just like flaw that we have of ourselves and of this podcast, but neither of us have actually been to London, which is why we say the Thaumace River.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you call it the Thames?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thames are Thomas Thaumase, and you're like so apologies for our ignorance.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what I realized is that there is a London Bridge and a Tower Bridge.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the London Bridge is like the historic bridge, the older bridge that is actually like right along the river.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the tower bridge is what you see in like movies, it's like the where there's actually the two big pillars where they're connected with these big cables and all that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So back in the day, we're talking about London Bridge, and there were spikes on it, and that's where the heads were.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see them when you're just going under the bridge, because they're very visible, it's like not that far away from the water.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see them walking by.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can just walk along the bridge, and there's the the pikes, the spikes.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go one day.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about that right before we started recording of just you know what I get it with all with COVID, like we can't make plans right now, and I'm kind of mad at myself because I've been trying to get to London for so many years, and every year it's like I I pulled back because I wanted to do it right, and I was like, well, I could save up a little bit more and like stay at a nicer place, or you know, I really want to go all out, so maybe next year.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then everyone, every time was just like London will always be there.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's never gonna be a time where you just can't go to London, and now there's actually everything's in lockdown.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So and I've I've traveled a lot throughout Europe, you know, but I've never been to London because I feel like in my mind at least, like London was one of those things where it's like the same thing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like London will always be there.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll always go to London at some point.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I when I was in college, I studied abroad in Athens, and like I've been to like Egypt and Morocco, and I've been to Rome and Venice and Barcelona and Madrid and like Croatia.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, just keep going.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just saying, like, but I've been is there more?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: There is, but I'm not sure.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, have you been in Brazil or well?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's not in Europe.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, wait, let me let me tie up what I just had to say real quick.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But long story short, I've been a lot of places and I still have not been to London, so it's on my list, and we'll get there.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: We will.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Megan and I are going together and we're gonna do it at our soonest opportunity.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And go ahead with your last follow-up.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of London, yes, Hampton Court Palace.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So last episode we did our first little segment of Ghosts of the Gallows, which was a ghost story of an execution-ee that we were speaking of, and of course it was about Catherine Howard running down the haunted gallery in Hampton Court Palace.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we have our resource who works amongst the historic royal palaces.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we love her, and she gave us the really cool, creepy story of walking down the haunted gallery.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally misread the message, and I don't know why I read it like that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: We both did.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I envisioned walking down the haunted gallery in the dark by yourself to see if you can get from point A to point B holding a candle, which is actually like really like ghostly thinking of that image.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we could make that a thing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk to the Hampton Court Palace.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I don't okay, go ahead with your story, but well, it's not that they held a candlelight, it was a candle lit.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was a candle-lit gallery.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it was only there's like no electricity, which also just as cool.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Just as cool.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite as creepy though.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's much scarier to just go.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I also pictured like wearing like a white nightgown with a bottom.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's what everyone has in their head when they imagine going down.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like a ghostly, sheer type of light.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was picturing like the the ghost little sister from Hocus Pocus, like the little bonnet and like the little white nightgown with the candlelight, just like walking.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what I would wear if I got a cardallas and wear it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, ma'am, I'm sorry, but can you wear something else?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do wear clothes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is a little too sheer and are you wearing a mask?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wear a mask, put your COVID mask on.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And why is your friend sneezing?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: She's not allowed to come here.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not allowed to have allergies when we travel.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's a thing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have been someplace that you haven't been.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: To somewhere in Mexico, you said.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I'm trying to transition into our topic of this evening.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh! We're in Ireland!
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're in Ireland today.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: The only exciting place I've been.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's very exciting, and I still have not been there, and I'm very good.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And today, uh, in Ireland, we are talking about someone you may have heard about from other sources, but she's uh she's a very cool story.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is Lady Betty, also known as Elizabeth Sugre.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Suggru.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Damn it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I would mess it up.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sugru.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sugru.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sugru.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just decide on one way to say it and just say it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sugru.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sugru.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's S-U-G-R-U-E.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sugru.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the easy way to say it is Lady Betty.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: She also has a very Gaelic sounding, like long name, which we're not even gonna attempt because there's a lot of I don't know Gaelic.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of accents over all these syllables.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: We struggle with English little um Gaelic.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you guys know us.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna just call her Lady Betty for her.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Lady Betty has another name.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's also called the Woman from Hell.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Woman from Hell.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a little preview as to how bad she is.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: But in my opinion, she's just badass.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I like her.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I have to admit, I've never heard of her before you brought her up.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, one of our friends, um Libby, shout out to Libby.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Libby.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Libby, if you're listening.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: She mentioned that we should do an episode on her.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm almost very judgmental when someone's like, you should do an episode.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, I'll look into it.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, we do get a lot of suggestions.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she was one that I started reading about.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, holy moly, like this is an amazing story.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is also a little bit, uh, we're deviating a bit from what we do because as you know, the show is called Beheaded.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're always doing execution stories.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: She is actually just not to spoil the ending, but she is not an executed person.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's an executioner.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she is Ireland's first and only female executioner.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: She's kind of a little bit of both.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's the executionee and the executioner.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like we'll get into the exact details of it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry, we'll explain.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: We'll explain.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: You might be a little confused right now.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Does she execute herself?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Does she behead herself?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: How?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: What if you had a do-it-yourself guillotine?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's horrible.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think they make those.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So let's take it off with Lady Betty.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: We won't complicate her name again.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Lady Betty.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Lady Betty.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that her name's Elizabeth because it makes me feel ever more empowered.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is like our second Elizabeth we've done.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: We did Elizabeth Barton.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: She'll probably change her name.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's overused.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go by Betty.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: They still use my name.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: My Halloween costume name was Betty.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so um, Lady Betty.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: She was born in uh County Carey, Ireland, and roughly between like 1740 and 1750-ish.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Again, birth records were all over the place in these kind of eras, so they don't know exactly.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but her story kind of comes into play when her husband dies, um, he's this poor farmer, and she's essentially evicted from where she lives with her two sons.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So her and her two sons just go on this big voyage um all the way to Ross Common.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which we did look up because a lot of the stories didn't mention how far that was.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, she just took her tick kids, and we're like, oh, down this kilometers, like I don't know, kilometers.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get better at that.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but apparently, if you were to take that path now, today, we like Google Maps it, and it's a 46-hour walk.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: So she brought her two little kids on a walk.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: 46 hours.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I have to preface I have to preface this whole story we're about to tell.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think I have more questions than answers.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I should write them down.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: One of my questions Well, you told me that I'm supposed to be the one.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: You write this down.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Why why did she have to go from Carrie to Ross Common?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why did like what why can't she just stay in Carrie?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did people not like her?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, let me ask questions.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, why we'll find an expert and we'll follow up with our questions because I was really struggling finding a lot of these things online.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in these days there weren't a lot of like towns or cities.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're evicted, like maybe you do want to start over in the next town, and the next town is freaking a two-day walk from where you are.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll look into that, see if we could find any information.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any other questions related to the question?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll let you know.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll stop you again.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have my pen ready when you're ready.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so um, as like they're making this big trek, this two-day walk, um, her youngest child dies.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, which is only, I mean, in all fairness, it's a two-day walk.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a two-week walk.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if she had a stroller.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Put that question down.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Did she have a stroller?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: My dog like Megan's dog Penny.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can't even go on a tangent with that.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's not even appropriate.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't her choice.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't her choice.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't my choice.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was gonna say it wasn't Megan's choice.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so the youngest died on this walk, uh, basically of exposure and starvation.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Starvation, yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: After two days, like, get your shit together, kid.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can make it two days.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um weakling.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Weakling.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Survival of the fittest.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of thoughts about this young, weak child.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm sure, I'm sure he was fantastic.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: God, don't make us sound bad.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Eh, too late.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but the oldest child, the oldest son, did live.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what was his name?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Padreic.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Good job!
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Also pronounced Padre.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's P A D R A I G.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Padreeg.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you need an Irish accent when you say that, like Pad Padre.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Padre.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Padre.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is that it?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they finally make it to Rossgamen and obviously had no means to support themselves.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: They were begging and just being scavengers and trying to just live any way they could.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they have this, it's called a hovel, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: They basically like find this abandoned shack, um, and they're like, well, at least we can post up here and just like kind of figure out our new lives.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: But she was very known for her violent temper and had a lot of things to say to her oldest son, um, didn't treat him very well.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: She was just a very terrible mother.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like also she was a bit of a young mother, too.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's hard to tell based on the dates because yeah, if it was like 1740, um, when she was born, um, then by the time like the kid wanted to leave her, like she was already 35.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: But like, think about it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: She could have been 25.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she was But even 35.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm just getting older and I'm like, damn, 35, that's young.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you judge me so harshly?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he wanted to leave home about 1775.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Which I felt like was a very prominent time in history.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what happened in history around that time?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's two versions of it.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Either he went into the army, which at this time would have been the British Army.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: The British Army.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then others say that he went to the to America.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: But both could have happened.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: He could have joined the British Army 1775 again.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: In America.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: What was going on?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: So he probably came over to America in the army.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time they called that the Continental Army.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you were either in the British Army, which stayed in um Britain, or you went to the Continental Army, which was in North America.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, he's there at a very like crucial turning point in American history, as we know.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do like an American, like revolutionary story.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we tried to, remember last season.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I forgot about that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll save that story for another time.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: We we thought we had a really cool execution about revolutionary times, and when we both started researching it, we're like couldn't find anything.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is mythical.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is an actual end, and then we got it from like a fable.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we got it from like a show and it was a folklore thing.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't real.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like shit.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so he may or may not be in the US of A, which was not the US of A at that time.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: He was in the new world.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, but she became very reclusive.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all she really had to do after her son left was, you know, beg continuously.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: She like asked for dinner from the inn that was nearby, um, and just take in lodgers when she could.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like whenever the inn was kind of full, she would take in the occasional like transient person and they would pay her for their stay.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I have another question.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, hold on.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did she have people stay in her hovel?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so, yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't that like a one-room shack?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess if they couldn't stay anywhere else, they'd prefer that over outside.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, yeah, if they can't either afford the inn or the inn's full and they don't have any options.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like you, you know, they had Ritz Carlton's back then.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like you get what you got.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an Airbnb situation.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're like, sorry, I live in this one room, but you can also stay here for the night.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: I always wonder, too, this doesn't have to be an actual question, but I wonder if you writing these down or writing everything I'm saying.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um no, I seriously though, I wonder when they say like they she would take in people for pennies, like I wonder if she was like a little bit of a prostitute, too.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I say a little bit in the sense like there's different levels of prostitution.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit of a prostitute.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not a little prostitute.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's a menu of all the things you can get here.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Very one penny type of service or like a two penny type of service.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wouldn't.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that could be assumed.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not, yeah, that's not written anywhere, but I'm gonna put that assumption in there.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so she's taking in people for pennies.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Ew, now I'm thinking about this in a new way.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, which is I'm not gonna say she was a prostitute, but on a cold November night, similar to this night here in Arizona.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Similar to our Arizona cold night that we're experiencing of 54 degrees.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: A tall gentleman with a black beard who's finely dressed, wearing a nice, like long coat.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: She means that as in nicely dressed, not like he finally has clothes on.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's finely dressed.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's how you say like he has like fine clothing and he's nicely dressed.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he comes and he wants to get his pennies worth of lodgings because he said that the inn was full.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Which makes sense.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he throws down some money at her.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So she knows he has money and she's like, okay, well, I'm gonna go and like buy some groceries.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: So she goes back and she gets some like meats and cheeses and eggs and uh makes him a nice little dinner for his money's worth.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then she realizes, dang, this guy's got money.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So what does she do?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's the only thing you can do with someone who's now sleeping in your hovel with money?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, obviously you murder him.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: You murder him.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she said by a knife, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I read somewhere that was by knife.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I didn't read that on like you know different accounts, only one, so I but I imagine.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you don't have what else would you do?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: A bayonet?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think she had one.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think she was that rich.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you have to be pretty strong to like suffocate someone with a pillow.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say a knife, cut his throat.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we think in the middle of the night, just a quick um, and she quickly like takes his money, goes through his things to see what else he has, and she discovers something.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, she's going through his documents and going through his stuff as you do after you kill someone.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Finds out who is it?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Her son.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was Pedrek.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was Padre! Like, come come home from war, basically being like, I'm gonna see how mom's doing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a made-up story, this is real, but this needs to be a movie, right?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is I was reading this story like plot twist, like that was pretty cool.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but she had no idea.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I mean she'd spent so many years again becoming reclusive and just bitter and sad because her son had left her her only sense of joy in the world, even though she had this temper, and lo and behold, he comes.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a theory that that says he actually came back, not purposely disguised, but didn't disclose it as his identity, kind of like a count of Monte Cristo situation.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to see how they just act around me.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe she's improved her mood, maybe she's nicer now, maybe she deserves like a relationship with her son.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So some people think it out first.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some people think he just came back, like obviously knowing it's his mother, and just being like, let's see how this works out.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it worked out.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it did.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think he even got the chance to figure it out.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Safe to say she was not the only part that makes sense because he would have had to have recognized her.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, he would have had to have known where he grew up.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm very much on board with like he was kind of testing her to be like, maybe I'll live with her, but let me see how she is for one night.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: But here's why I was like, oh, maybe she wasn't a prostitute, because hopefully that wasn't the situation.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Stop it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just had to say it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think her son would have followed through with that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe if she was willing.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't think that's so it must have truly just been like for lodgings.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Truly.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and some people do think too that when he was away at war, he sent her some money, so he was still somewhat of a like a faithful, loyal son, and even though they were distanced, that he still gave her a little bit to live on throughout that whole time.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at again, at the end of the day, like he was all she had, whether he was home or not.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: So she seems completely shocked, and she runs out into the street basically screaming, like, I've killed my son, I've killed my son, I've got to murder something.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Which is kind of funny, like you would think your instinct would be like, I need to hide this up, I need to hide my murder.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: But she was like very forthcoming about it and shared with the world what she did.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that there's theory, maybe this wasn't her first murder.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, before I even read an article that mentioned like this could have been not the first murder, my first thought was this can't be the first time she's killed someone.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like the first guy who shows up at her her doorstep that has some cash on him, she's like, Okay, I'm gonna, it's a perfect opportunity to kill this guy.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, she probably killed people for multiple things, like robbed them for whatever reason prior to this.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this just happened to be the first one that she was A discovered doing, and B just was so emotional about, like, had to run into the street screaming.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: She actually, I think, for the first time felt remorse over it because it was her son and had no idea.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but she was way known for her temper all before this, so I don't think this was the first time anything like that had happened.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Side note, yes.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to know what she looked like.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I actually have a note of what she looked like.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see here.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Turn the page.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Turn the page.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so according to uh we'll we'll get into this a little bit more, but according to William Wilde, who is Oscar Wilde's father, um, she was middle-aged, obviously, um, dark-haired, swarthy, and this is a weird way that he described this, but by no means forbidden looking.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean she's pretty?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Forbidden.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: By no means forbidden looking.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's forbidden looking, does that mean like you desire them so they're forbidden, or does that mean like put it in your questions?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: What is forbidden?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm thinking about like forbidden looking forbidden looking.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's something that you want but you can't have.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you so sh if you're not forbidden, does that mean you can have but you don't want?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is that he's But by no means means not unwantable, meaning she's hot.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh lord, that's a lot.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think that means she's hot.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it does.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because my my theory is that he says like swarthy, but by no means forbidden looking.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you wouldn't say but if it was like not contradictory.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the opposite of like swarthy, because swarthy is not a very attractive word to describe somebody's like, I've never used that word to describe someone.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Swarthy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, swarthy.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start using that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like bushy-haired looking.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh is that what it means?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, swarthy.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Unkept.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of, at least that's how I interpret it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it means something totally different.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought I remember it from like Big Fat Greek Wedding when she was like, I was a swarthy six-year-old with sideburns.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's why.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think of.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so we said swarthy, but by no means forbidden looky.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine that as like she's swarthy, but she actually was kind of exotic and maybe pretty looking.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna write that down.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna research that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't but that's the thing, is like even though we write down these questions, I think we like try to look up as much as we could look up on this.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did, we really did.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh generally what she looked like.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But she was also said to just have a very grim, emotionless face, and we'll get into that and why that's important.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, really quick though, so you mentioned Sir William Robert Wilde, Oscar Wilde's father.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: He was actually a really big resource for information on her.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, if he hadn't have written all the things that he did on her, like this story might have been completely dead and buried.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody would have known.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: But he happened to also be from Ross Common.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when he discovered her story, because he was born, I think maybe like eight years after she had died.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so not uh, you know, a tremendous amount of time had passed, and he learned about her legend, and so he was the first one to kind of put together a collection of like folklore on her, and like, well, what did happen and when was she born and why did she come here and how did she live and then what happened, you know.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, so he was the first one to put all this together.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, if he wasn't around, her her story could have been lost.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was telling Megan before we recorded, I was like, how many stories are there in history that are just completely like wiped away?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, isn't that so sad?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like there could be so many cool, amazing stories.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we've talked about this before.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think like I want to say back in like our Ramsey's the third episode, yeah, about like how nowadays we have social media and everyone can kind of create their own legacy.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, look at us, like we are like faux what up like historians right now because we have fun making a podcast.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have these conversations anyways.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, oh, let's do it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: We have these recording conversations and we have pictures, there's a yeah, there's like record of it, and all of this has happened that never you know we would know existed.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's like it's just word of mouth, and then when the last person who remembers it dies, it dies, you know?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of like those stories of like afterlife.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're still alive in someone's memory until the last person who remembers you forgets you or they die.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the plot of cocoa?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like cocoa.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's but it's true.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a lot of afterlife stories where it's like it's like, okay, like even if I die, like my children remember me, my friends remember me, like anyone who's interacted with me still has my memory alive.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: But think about it, like one day, like, no one will.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do something really big so people don't forget about us.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like beheaded.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can just okay, guys.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the thing go on beheaded.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Go tell ten of your friends, go tell ten of your friends, make them all listen, like our Instagram, go give us five stars on iTunes.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then we'll remember you and we remember each other.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful, beautiful sentiment, Megan.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad we came full circle on that.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so just kind of a sad note that, you know, again, this story would have been not a story had it not been for uh Sir William Wilde.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh back to her screaming in the streets and saying she did something terrible.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: She confessed her own murder.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: She confessed her own murder, um, she was arrested, she was sentenced to death, and she was held in um the old jail, which we did not know.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jail is also spelled G-A-O-L.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm reading all these articles and they're like Ross Common Gowl.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, we were texting each other with like in a gowl.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: What's a gowl?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we finally were smart enough to like Google the pronunciation and it's like jail.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: G-A-O-L.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um learn something.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Learn something new.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Amongst all of this, we're gonna.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go to uh London and I have to I have to get you out of jail, I know how to write it down.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: My friend, she's in the gowls.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: My friend's in the gowls right now.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please get her?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: She tried to steal the heads on the power of London.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh public intoxication, I know.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, so she was taken to the old jail, um, and there was apparently uh about 25 people that she was meant to be hanged with.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they rounded up this whole group of different people thieves, uh shoplifters, and which is a thief, the white boys.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you read more about that than I did.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was into that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the white boys was this Irish gang, organized gang, um, that were very like pro-farmer, and it was like basically the farm boys, and they would go around and like wreak havoc and like break fences and yeah, they would tear apart your fences.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this was big in like the 18th century.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, I don't I didn't do as much research where I can like actually confidently talk a lot about them, but as an overview of the white boys, they were punished pretty severely for their I would say like pretty minor crimes.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like they murdered anyone, they weren't really hurting anyone.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Vandalism around the town, and it was for a statement of like the pro-farming community, right?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And there were white boy sympathizers who kind of probably they were from farming backgrounds and they felt from like, yeah, I want to say it has to do with taxes or something.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I maybe a follow-up because I should have done more research on it.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was Oh, we want to look into the white boys?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that worthy?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe of me writing it down.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I like having a secretary.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is great, guys.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having tons of fun writing.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Write that down.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: All vegan thoughts.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: This will never happen again.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, this ep this only this episode will I write these down.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is a terrible idea.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I only see also like two lines.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: We mentioned the long.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't write all that down because a lot of that's pretty unrel irrelevant.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Continue.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the white boys were a part of the group of 25 people meant to be executed.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a whole array of people, and when you think about it, a lot of it was just petty crime.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, breaking down a fence.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna be hanged for that.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: So executioners MIA.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Some say maybe he was a white boy sympathizer.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why he didn't want to execute them.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which wait makes sense.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, imagine these young teenage boys.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I don't want to be the cause of this and actually believe what they're doing.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, there's different reasons for why he didn't show up.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: He probably didn't have enough PTO just out.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: What was that today?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: No call, no show.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: And also to have 25 people to execute all at once.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he wasn't no call no show.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a big task.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I don't want to do this today.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna continue to sleep.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Was this town actually executing when they would just have like 25 out of batches?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think they just waited a certain period?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was expensive to pay the executioner or something like that, and they were like, you know what, let's just do them in big batches once a quarter.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like quarterly execution.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: A quarterly execution?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fair.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's more expensive, but okay.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um so the hangman was ill.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they didn't know what to do at the time, and so little Miss Lady Betty raises her hand, and she has uh there's the quote is interpreted two different ways.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the main one that they think she said was set me free and I'll hang them all.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Another interpretation is spare me, I'll hang them all.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Either way, great and bad ass.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's essentially saying, I'll do it.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, fuck, there's 25 people here.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have killed a million more people at my house.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Also makes me think she was a murderer.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think she was a full-on serial killer.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, zero remorse, zero emotion.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, um, yeah, I'll do it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not really doing much right now.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just kind of standing here.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do it, but get me off.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: So apparently, the um the crowd was not super happy about this because, again, most of these are petty crimes, and she was a known murderer who confessed to the murder.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they were like, no, like, what are you talking about?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she has to be like murdered, like, get her, like blah blah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they had no choice.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, we have 25 people here just chilling and waiting to be executed.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So come on up, lady.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're set up.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're next on the execution today.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Lady Betty.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: So Betty Sagrew.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she went up and she did all five, or sorry, five, twenty-five.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty-four, because she's not in it now.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: But she killed 24 people, fully executed them.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: She was known to just be swift and efficient and grim unemotional.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just did it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I could do that.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh gosh.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth's looking at that.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: I could.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: All 24 names right here.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of let's talk for a quick sec about the method of execution.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's hanging.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's hanging.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, she wouldn't be able to do this if it was beheadings, because that's an actual skill.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: I could still figure it out.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was something that you had to be really trained for to be able to behead someone with a big axe and aim and get it on the neck.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Control your nerves enough to do it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hanging, yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And hanging, you really just like well, I wonder if she was the one that put the rope on the neck, tightened it, and then pulled the trapdoor.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't make them do it themselves.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or if she was just a you make them do what themselves, but the noose on themselves.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: You got you understand how this works.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: You get a rope.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: You get a rope, you get a rope, okay, ropes on.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, I'd say it like an airplane, like uh seatbelt demonstration.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I would show them and be like, like this.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's why she was so efficient.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she went up and was like, okay, everybody has their ropes.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everyone have your pretend rope and you're not.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: I would do those two little like finger point, like you will find the noose here and here, and around your neck.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: There are no escape routes anywhere on this path.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: No exit routes on either.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to put it here, pull it tight.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure to do yours before you assist anyone else with their noose.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dying.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, put those or escape routes.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can get it together.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think we laugh at each other more than anyone else laughs.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: I doubt it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're dying right now.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: She's dying in her car.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, and then all you have to do is pull the lever.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's really all she's doing.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the lever crunk.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: She just pulls the lever.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's one lever.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't like a huge like task.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't feel like it didn't take talent or the only other thing, I mean, again, we're obviously not executioners, but if you remember I mean, you do have a blob and a sword here.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not real sure what you do when I'm not here.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but back to the catch em uh blackjack catch em episode that we did in season one, they did have to measure out the rope to make sure and they did it wrong.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: In that episode, yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe she was just a very good mathematician and was like, all right, let's see if I would have made them pre-measure out their own ropes.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying, you make them do quite a lot of work on their last day on earth, don't you?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Call delegation.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I learned this in management training classes.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: You delegate the work.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Megan's the managers.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the manager.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but we're getting googled.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know, sorry.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's a difference on Jameson nights and Y nights.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she she did all these executions and she was so good at it that they were basically like, you know what, you're spared today.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how about you just come work for us?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: How about you just do the executions from here on out?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, and she didn't know.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: What an honor.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: So she became Ireland's first and only female executioner.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Go Lady Betty.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: She did execution, she did vlogging, she did a number of she did the whole shebang.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: She was the Ross Common executioner for many years.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: They eventually named her, as we mentioned earlier, Woman from Hell.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: So she was not liked.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I thought this was really cool.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: She did the executions unmasked and undisguised.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty nuts.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Which there's just this like stigma where you're executing someone.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: You wear the mask because even though it really doesn't mean anything symbolically, it's like like a girl has no name.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not a person, I'm not a man.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just here, I'm just here doing a task.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And but she was like, look me in the face, look me in the eyes.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am who I am.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: But that just like people really hated her.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And she, and not only was she unmasked, but she was cold looking and detached and grim and unemotional, like we said.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so people were just like, damn, like this is the woman from hell.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she's good at her job.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: She shows enthusiasm when she has to flog people.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like she doesn't give her.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: From anyone, much less a woman.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: And what did she do with all of her executions?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a good thing.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of bizarre too.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: So so it's kind of unknown in terms of was she an employee and did she make salary?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and did she just live at the jail be because perhaps it was safer there and like she wouldn't have to go out in the town and be criticized by everyone who hated her?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or did she just get free run or open course?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, or did they say, you know what, we're not gonna kill you, but your punishment is that you have to stay here and do these executions, you know, for the rest of time.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of unclear, like, again, which one that like which scenario it was, but regardless, she had her whole like little room at the jail, like she had her own little cell.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what she would do after she killed all these people was she would etch their faces on the wall with charcoal.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: So she would do these cool sketches.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would I say cool, like I've seen them.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: She's this really cool, like, hipster modern.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Such an artist.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: But she would um she would draw the people that she killed on the walls of her cell.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really spooky.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and they said she used like a stick, like she would get a burn stick, so it's like charcoal on the end of it, and she would just sit there and etch their faces.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Etch their faces.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: She must have been pretty good if he could like tell me.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you could tell, I know.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Megan's pictures would be like stick figure with hair.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's dope.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Stick figure without hair.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: This person wears hat.
• 44:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Person who had a beard.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I so my theory is she was still technically a prisoner.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think she lived there because she was still a prisoner, but they treated her more like nicer.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: They did, they did.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think she had like meals and who knows, maybe a salary, but I mean she probably made a life for herself.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: She did, and then what was the alternative in her life?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say, let's say she wasn't even arrested.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: So she had like kind of three options in her life.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: She could be a poor, begging scavenger of a prostitute woman.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: We also invented prostitute, by the way.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I've not found that in any other sources, but sure, you heard it here first.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Prostitute.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: She was a prostitute.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if she was so forbidden looking and she needed money and she sounds like not a great person, wouldn't you?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't I you know give herself around?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, be a prostitute, sure.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Being the forbidden looking, not so woman, whatever.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um Megan's calling me swarthy and forbidden looking, I see.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not so forbidden, isn't that how he worded it?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that was one choice.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, being hanged and just calling it a day.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Or living out this life and being like, well, I've got my bed, I've got my little desk, I've got my art drawings and my sketchings, and I just have to kill people every now and then.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: There was legally.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: There was even uh as a serial killer, I think she got joy from it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think she liked it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think if you're that unemotional with all these deaths, and the only person you ever cared about was your son who you also killed.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, eh, what do you really have to live for?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: The episode is a lot of theory on our behalf, but I think she was a serial killer and a prostitute, and she enjoyed it.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about the prostitute part, but I definitely see serial killer.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I even read that uh so really quick, um, her sentence was actually lessened because of her service.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they said that you're basically here for the safety of the public.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in 1802, they officially like told her, like, you know, your charges are clear.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she retired from being an executioner at that point.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: What a life.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently, I don't know if this is true, but I read that she tended to her garden in the jail.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like she had a small garden.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, it reminds me of like Orange is the new black.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: She lived out the rest of her days.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's like a part of the what do they call the black?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've never seen oranges the new black.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, you keep trying to tell me to watch it, but you only tell me about the most gruesome scenes.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So funny don't want to watch it.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, the group of the old ladies, they call them someone will tell me, follow-up.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: What do they call the group of the old ladies in one of the things?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not writing that down.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the silver something, anyways.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like she's kind of in that group.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Other fun fact in the words of Elizabeth on this, they she actually convinced them to move the gallows as well.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: She did.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the gallows of Ross Common Jail were outside in this square area, and she had them moved up against the building where her room was, which was on the third level.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: And this was a little bit confusing.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: There were some descriptions of it, but they moved it to her room on the third floor.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: The prisoners had to crawl through the window pre-noosed, I will say, pre-noosed.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Before they were put a noose on their neck.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they had the rope already on their neck.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is this when she performed prostitution duties in there?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: According to you?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: This was actually in writing from Sir William Robert Wilde.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that the prisoners would crawl through her window pre-noosed and onto a platform, in which case she would then pull the lever.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: So she didn't even have to go anywhere.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: No! She sounds like this this bitch got it made.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Yeah, I'm gonna build this platform right outside my window.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: You come to me, I put the noose around your neck.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know, you pre-noose on the manager, and you go out over there.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, it sounds like she had it made.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they had a whole setup.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um she got her sentence reduced in 1802, she retired, and she died shortly after in 1807.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: She did die.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: And again, one theory, natural causes, death in jail.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Second theory that she was murdered in jail, probably because you're the crazy lady drawing pictures of all your victims on top.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she would have been pretty young still, like between 50 and 60.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, five-ish.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: Five-ish.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe nowadays that seems young, but Yeah, I know.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh William Wilde, again, Sir William Wilde, he had written a book called Ireland, Her Wit, Peculiarities, and Popular Superstitions, which is where a lot of the content uh You mean this is all superstition?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying it's a real story based on the town that he grew up in.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it it's based in a book where he talks about all these kind of like interesting things from Ireland, not just Ross Gommon.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which I'd like to pick up one day and have a reading.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we should go back to the book gallery and we went to the cool gallery.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: We all posted pictures.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: We all.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: You and me posted pictures.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And me.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, beheaded posted pictures and I, my Instagram, I posted some pictures.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was very cool.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we w we went being like, we need a new like bookstore because we've seen a lot of thrift stores and bookstores in Phoenix, but we're like, we want one that's like a got a little bit older books and more rarities and stuff like that.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we went and we found this and it was awesome.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was huge, it was so big.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you've never been to it and you just live in the Phoenix area.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you've never been to Phoenix, no, I'm saying if you've never been to the if you're in the Phoenix area and you've never been to this bookstore, check it out because it's yeah, the book gallery looks really cool.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they had huge crates of books just not even on the shelves yet.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, well, there's boxes all over there.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: They've had rows and rows of just classic literature and like really beautiful, like leather-bounded books.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: What did you buy?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: You bought something.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um I bought Alison Weir's book.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this the Children of King Henry VIII, I think it's called.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't started it yet.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: I love Allison Weir.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone's looking for good um a tutor historian, Alison Weir is a fave of mine.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: The gal.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's Black Betty.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking about my name, but I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Black Betty.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fucking Black Betty.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: I can't.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is my first time I never put it together.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Me neither.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: I it's my name, and I've never put it together.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because like I've never said Black Betty before, but I was thinking of the song, like, oh, Black Betty.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Black Betty.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know that song, and I still okay, it's fine.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Weird.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, um, well, Betty.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's time for segment.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should do quid or quo, if you remember from our season one.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Remind me what that is.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that sounds very cued up and not natural.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Megan Atwill.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it is basically a this or that.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, would you rather do this or would you rather do that?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Suck because I already knew what it was.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Suckers.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my question to you is just like our black buddy, like our lady buddy, would you A live in essentially squalor and be impoverished and beg for you know anything that will get you to your next meal?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: In your words, potential prostitution.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wait, we're pulling that into it?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think anything that would get you a coin.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like a lay miserab situation.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like Iran Hathaway and lay miserab.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's a option A.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or B, you have to spend the rest of your days murdering people.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps on the daily or quarterly if we're gonna stick to our schedule.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone, anyone, children, people you may have known, priests, yeah, anyone.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the th the thing is, is I feel like I know which direction you would go in.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna not say you most certainly do not Black Betty, which is your new nickname.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: Shit.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: You need to update your Instagram name to Blackbett.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: AK Black Betty.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um take the prostitution part out of it.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: I would be poor.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can't, you can't.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is a I wouldn't okay, again, you can't choose.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: You just like you know that was part of it.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can't construct your reality, just pick one scenario or another.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I could execute people on a daily basis.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that would really haunt me, and I would be afraid of my immortal soul more than the where your next meal is coming from.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I die, I die, and I'm gonna die not.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or an STD at this rate.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, if you're prostituting- You said take the prostitute part out.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: You said I couldn't choose.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would still, I don't think I could execute people.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think I sadly wouldn't do it for.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know you wouldn't.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cute.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying, I'm not gonna do it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Your face rate.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna do it too.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you had to choose between starving to death or it's survival of the fittest, man, you do what you have to do to get.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's look at the pros.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: You get your own room.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Room, get food, I get charcoal to sketch, which I love.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love drawing.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell people what to do.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Tell people what to do.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have them come to me.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even have to go anywhere.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you come up to my cell and I drop you off the third floor.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's horrible.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, um And I live until however long I want to live.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just that's my life, and I enjoy it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: And occasionally I get a good flogging in there where I just with real zeal just get my aggression out.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: That is weird that she did that.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's she was really into that part.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: There was no denying that she enjoyed a good flogging.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like I've pitched this book series before, so I apologize if I'm such an annoying nerd like that.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: But the book series, The Hangman's Daughter.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, this was actually a very appropriate time to bring it up again.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like a mystery series, but the main character is the executioner of like Belgium, Bulgaria, I forget.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's Belgium.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not the same.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's Belgium.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: Belgium's Germany.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, Bulgaria.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bulgaria.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Bulgaria.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's Germany.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bulgaria's separate country.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where somewhere like that.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go, we'll take a stop there on our tour of Europe.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, but it's actually kind of cool because it's called the Heyman's daughter because she's also a main character as his daughter.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like it talks a lot about the stigma that you have as an executioner in the town, where like I for sure have mentioned this on the show, and I apologize.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: But like you walk like as the executioner, and people will just like do like Hail Mary, yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they're like kind of like you're kind of taboo, like they're afraid to be around you, you're bad luck, they want nothing to do with you.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think we talked about this in the Margaret Paul episode.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've talked about it before.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, anyways, it makes me think of that.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do you want to live your life unwanted?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone kind of already unwanted is the thing.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was her own.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would have a better temper.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: I would be a really nice person.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: So nice.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, oh, let me just give free hugs.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: My Hufflepuff will come out.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just you're like in a little princess where people take pity on you.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: They just think you're so genuine and nice that they just invite you into their home and they decorate your bed when you're sleeping.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just like a princess.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I would get out of poverty from this.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, still not the same scenario I pitched you.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I get I get what you're saying.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: However, I think at this point We're just maleficent up in her tower.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying, at this point you're already hated.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who cares if people hate you more?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And ooh, we didn't mention this in her story, but people would use her as kind of like a like a Layorona character, like a boogie.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's that?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like a boogeyman character.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that's well, that's like the whole stigma of being the execution.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they would be like, like if kids wouldn't go to sleep or they're misbehaving, they'd be like, Do you really want like Lady Betty to come get you?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that's creepy.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having nightmares of Lady Betty standing over my bed with a noose.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like how telling me how to do it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what to do with the knot.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing it wrong, honey.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I think that would be more my path.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you know.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: To each his own.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, but I'm learning more and more about you every episode, Elizabeth.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I knew about you, and then these little activities scare me.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, we never fully uncover the layers of Black Betty.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna remove that sword from this bedroom wise.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Black Betty, any final words?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, not today.