Latest / The Week in Bible Prophecy / Proof for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture | Lee Brainard

Transcript

Proof for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture | Lee Brainard · The Week in Bible Prophecy

0:01
Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
0:09
Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast today, everyone, Mando Gonzalez here in
0:12
Speaker 2: studio with Lee Brainer. Welcome Lee Mondo.
0:15
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here and I'm glad we're talking
0:18
Speaker 1: about the pre tribulation rapture.
0:19
Speaker 2: Yes, Lee has a new book out which we're going
0:23
Speaker 2: to be discussing in But I want to remind everybody
0:24
Speaker 2: a couple of things, a couple in house items. First
0:26
Speaker 2: of all, you know, if you haven't subscribed to this channel,
0:29
Speaker 2: please do we have an opportunity to want We're trying
0:33
Speaker 2: to grow this channel, at least for subscribers, because we
0:36
Speaker 2: anticipate possibly one day that our main channel is going
0:39
Speaker 2: to be censored, and so we're trying to get the
0:42
Speaker 2: word out that we are over here as well once
0:44
Speaker 2: a week bringing to you a podcast topic. And then
0:48
Speaker 2: also just reminded everybody to join us in Branson. We're Brandson, Missouri.
0:53
Speaker 2: We're going to be there December fifth through eighth. Lee's
0:55
Speaker 2: going to be there with us and Christmas and Branson.
0:58
Speaker 2: What's not the like? I mean, I was reading that
1:01
Speaker 2: Branson there some of the most enjoyable time of the
1:04
Speaker 2: year to be there. It's relatively mild. It's not quite
1:07
Speaker 2: February yet, is in December, and we're gonna be there
1:10
Speaker 2: in early December for a conference. We're gonna have over
1:13
Speaker 2: twenty speakers. It's going to be a great time. You
1:16
Speaker 2: can go to prophecywatchers dot com, scroll down to the
1:19
Speaker 2: banner check it out, and also if you can't be
1:23
Speaker 2: there persons, you can join this live stream again. So
1:25
Speaker 2: much is going to be happening also, Lee. It'll be
1:28
Speaker 2: interesting because this will be just a few weeks after
1:32
Speaker 2: the November election, assuming that November election happens as hoped,
1:37
Speaker 2: and that the election isn't isn't messed with, stolen, interfered,
1:43
Speaker 2: whatever words you want to have, and that there's a
1:46
Speaker 2: peaceful there's a peaceful event there. But so a lot
1:49
Speaker 2: of the prophecy teachers will have a lot to discuss
1:52
Speaker 2: as it relates to which direction are we're going to go?
1:55
Speaker 2: Which way will we see our country going, because there's
1:57
Speaker 2: no doubt in the prophetic world our country has a
2:02
Speaker 2: has the part to play, and you know in globalism,
2:04
Speaker 2: whether we're going to continue to hinder it or whether
2:07
Speaker 2: we are going to become less of an hindrance to
2:10
Speaker 2: what the elites are trying to do. Would you agree
2:12
Speaker 2: with that one?
2:12
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely, America is going to be in this picture
2:16
Speaker 1: in the near future, and it's just a matter of
2:19
Speaker 1: waiting to see which direction she goes. Is she gonna
2:22
Speaker 1: going to go her own independent way? Is she going
2:24
Speaker 1: to get in line? Is she going to try and dominate?
2:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with with the latest things that we're seeing,
2:29
Speaker 2: and this kind of goes into what we're talking about
2:31
Speaker 2: with your book ten Potent Proofs for the pre Tribulation Rapture.
2:35
Speaker 2: But it just it helps us at the stage to
2:37
Speaker 2: see or help us, helps us to see where the
2:40
Speaker 2: stage is at. Because for us who believe the rapture
2:45
Speaker 2: is before the tribulation, the Bible never said that we
2:48
Speaker 2: would escape trouble, that even that the church would not
2:53
Speaker 2: escape trouble. Of course we're gonna have trouble. It never
2:55
Speaker 2: promised that we would escape. Seeing the system being developed,
3:00
Speaker 2: we could even see that a full cashalist society being implemented.
3:04
Speaker 2: We could see other mandates being implemented as we saw
3:06
Speaker 2: a few years ago, at least attempts. And so the
3:09
Speaker 2: church maybe this is good lead, a good lead up
3:13
Speaker 2: because people accuse those in the pre trip camp, which
3:18
Speaker 2: again we're going to be talking about the proofs of that.
3:21
Speaker 2: But people accuse those in the preacher camp that they're
3:24
Speaker 2: just a bunch of escapists. But yet in one sense
3:27
Speaker 2: that's true. Jesus uses the word escape in Luke twenty one,
3:30
Speaker 2: Paul uses the word escape and for Sissians five. So
3:32
Speaker 2: we have some biblical things, but maybe talk about that
3:35
Speaker 2: for a moment. We are going to escape something. But
3:39
Speaker 2: what is it that we're promised to escape, and also
3:42
Speaker 2: what is it that we're not necessarily promised to escape?
3:45
Speaker 1: Well, we're not promised to escape tribulation. In a general sense,
3:49
Speaker 1: the Church has been in tribulation for two thousand years
3:52
Speaker 1: in every continent, in every nation where there's been believers,
3:56
Speaker 1: they have suffered tribulation. And right now today, if you
3:59
Speaker 1: go to Iran, you go to North Korea, you go
4:01
Speaker 1: to China. The Church is suffering tremendously. In parts of Africa,
4:06
Speaker 1: she's suffering tremendously under Islam. Other parts she's suffering tremendously
4:11
Speaker 1: under starvation and difficult situations. The Church does not have
4:15
Speaker 1: it easy in the world. And even in America, you
4:18
Speaker 1: stop and think about it. We don't have persecution like
4:21
Speaker 1: we're gonna get thrown in jail on a regular basis.
4:23
Speaker 1: We're not facing death threats. But many a young person
4:28
Speaker 1: in our generation is turning from the faith because they
4:32
Speaker 1: could not withstand the persecution of ridicule and slander and mocking.
4:39
Speaker 1: This is tribulation, and we face it now. The tribulation
4:43
Speaker 1: we're not going to face is when all the tribulation
4:47
Speaker 1: in the world, whether it's tribulation that's man giving tribulation
4:51
Speaker 1: to other human beings, or whether it's God's tribulations that
4:54
Speaker 1: he brings upon the world, these things are going to
4:57
Speaker 1: go up and significantly, not just up a notch or two,
5:01
Speaker 1: not just up a peg or two. When we look
5:04
Speaker 1: at the persecution of the Jews under Hitler, we have
5:09
Speaker 1: seen estimates that one third of the Jews in the
5:12
Speaker 1: world perished. When we look at Zechariah chapter thirteen, we
5:17
Speaker 1: see two thirds of the Jews perishing in the tribulation.
5:23
Speaker 1: We're looking at a situation here where the death toll
5:26
Speaker 1: on the Jews is twice as severe as Hitler's persecution.
5:30
Speaker 1: This is why the Bible says this is tribulation, such
5:33
Speaker 1: as the world has never seen before. This is the
5:37
Speaker 1: same tribulation taken to levels man has never experienced before.
5:42
Speaker 1: But on another level, we come to tribulation in the
5:45
Speaker 1: sense that God's bringing tribulations upon mankind. The Fourth Seal
5:49
Speaker 1: alone takes one quarter of the world's population. If the
5:55
Speaker 1: world's population is eight billion, we're looking at two billion
5:58
Speaker 1: people perishing. This is twenty times the death toll for
6:03
Speaker 1: World War Two if you include battlefield deaths, deaths from famine,
6:09
Speaker 1: and deaths from disease and pestilence. One hundred million is
6:14
Speaker 1: the highest death toll I've seen estimated for World War Two.
6:18
Speaker 1: Twenty times, So we're looking at a very very different
6:23
Speaker 1: degree of tribulation.
6:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's worth reiterating. Where in Mark thirteen nineteen, you know,
6:31
Speaker 2: Jesus says that this time of trouble, which is not
6:35
Speaker 2: just the second half of the tribulation, as you mentioned
6:37
Speaker 2: the Forced Seal, it's probably relatively early in the seven
6:42
Speaker 2: year tribulation where you have immediately we have war breakout
6:48
Speaker 2: in the second Seal. But Jesus at Mark thirty nineteen
6:51
Speaker 2: that this is this time of trouble is the greatest
6:55
Speaker 2: in the history, not just of the world, we can
6:58
Speaker 2: say that's fine, but in the history from the beginning
7:01
Speaker 2: of creation's right. So if you think about that that
7:05
Speaker 2: includes the flood, I mean, that's a weird way to say.
7:08
Speaker 2: I mean, the flood just wiped everybody out in the
7:10
Speaker 2: sense of you drowned. I mean the waters came, you drowned.
7:14
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what other way you would die. I
7:17
Speaker 2: mean maybe a landslide or something. But if we compare
7:21
Speaker 2: that this time of trouble, this seven year period, is
7:24
Speaker 2: worse than the flood. And then you start just looking
7:28
Speaker 2: at all the different descriptions. As you mentioned, the entire period,
7:32
Speaker 2: enough that Jesus said, if it continued, if it wasn't
7:35
Speaker 2: cut short to seven years, nobody, not just the Jews,
7:39
Speaker 2: but nobody on earth would, no human prehumanity would survive.
7:43
Speaker 1: And that's to me that observation there speaks Volumes where
7:47
Speaker 1: we have the Lord's commentary on it, and he says,
7:50
Speaker 1: if I didn't limit these days to seven years, they're
7:54
Speaker 1: so severe, there wouldn't be a single soul left. And
7:57
Speaker 1: I think your pointing to spot on.
7:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, So as we think about that, when we discuss
8:01
Speaker 2: a very intentional period of time, the seventieth week of Daniel,
8:06
Speaker 2: the day' loure, a lot of different names for this time,
8:08
Speaker 2: this seven year period, this time of trouble is unlike
8:13
Speaker 2: anything else, and that we I know as pre trip.
8:18
Speaker 2: We consider the entire period the wrath of God. And
8:21
Speaker 2: so that is what we are escaping on Cisilians five again,
8:26
Speaker 2: we're we're delivered from, we're rescued from in chapter one
8:29
Speaker 2: as well, we're from this wrath, this schatological wrath. I
8:33
Speaker 2: think the other thing is, as we think about this,
8:38
Speaker 2: there's there's there's this distinction that people like want to
8:41
Speaker 2: see between when when the tribulation starts and when it doesn't.
8:45
Speaker 2: The seals, but the in Revelation six to one. You
8:50
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that we we talked about the phrases of
8:53
Speaker 2: man's wrath versus Satan's wrath, because Satan's wrath does appear
8:57
Speaker 2: in Revelation twelve, but in Isaiah chapter ten, God talks
9:01
Speaker 2: about Assyria being his wrath very specific against Israel and others.
9:09
Speaker 2: And so just because we see the Antichrists come on
9:12
Speaker 2: the scene and there's war that takes place and the ramifications,
9:16
Speaker 2: and that also the consequences, the collateral damage that happens
9:19
Speaker 2: through war, famine, pestilence, etc. It's not like, oh, well,
9:24
Speaker 2: this is just from man. God who's the one that
9:26
Speaker 2: opened the first Seal. It was the Lamb and it
9:29
Speaker 2: was the supernatural agency of the angels. So this unleashing
9:33
Speaker 2: still is God's unleashing it upon the world. It's still
9:36
Speaker 2: from his hand, is it not?
9:37
Speaker 1: Absolutely? I think really what we're talking about here then,
9:41
Speaker 1: is well the removal of the restraining influence or the
9:45
Speaker 1: removal of the restrainer. When God ceases to restrain the
9:49
Speaker 1: mystery of iniquity, he is going to let the angelic
9:54
Speaker 1: realm go to degrees in directions he's not allowed them
9:57
Speaker 1: to go. He's going to let human beings go in
10:00
Speaker 1: directions in degrees that he's not allowed them to go.
10:03
Speaker 1: He's been putting the brakes on for the last six
10:05
Speaker 1: thousand years, and all of a sudden, he's gonna take
10:10
Speaker 1: the breaks off. He's going to remove his restraining hand,
10:12
Speaker 1: and they're going to run a monk on planet Earth.
10:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that that that opening of the First
10:18
Speaker 2: Seal and the the the arrival of the Figure. Now,
10:23
Speaker 2: let me let me just say this too. This is
10:24
Speaker 2: important because some people can be confused that the first
10:31
Speaker 2: writer is referring to a specific human being, the Antichrist,
10:38
Speaker 2: and then the second writer. I have an issue with that,
10:42
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you what I mean by that is,
10:44
Speaker 2: if you look at the other writers, the other writer,
10:48
Speaker 2: the second writer is bringing war, Well, it's not bringing
10:51
Speaker 2: a human being. The third writer is bringing you know,
10:54
Speaker 2: pestilence or whatever. Death. That's not bringing a human being.
10:58
Speaker 2: And so but it's still a judgment. So let me
11:00
Speaker 2: explain what I mean. You can add to it. Is
11:02
Speaker 2: I think that the first horse is a unleashing of
11:08
Speaker 2: these are figurative, right, they are figurative, Okay, they are
11:12
Speaker 2: pointing to something. They're pointing to something real. It could
11:14
Speaker 2: be pointing to a literal, a human figure. I'm not
11:17
Speaker 2: bound by that. But it also could be pointing their
11:20
Speaker 2: arrival of the system, the b system, which appears on
11:23
Speaker 2: the scene and then begins to consolidate, which again would
11:26
Speaker 2: include a figure or a person. But all these things
11:29
Speaker 2: being unleashed, there's a system now that is it's go
11:33
Speaker 2: for it, finalize your system. Because we know that the
11:36
Speaker 2: anti CRISI is going to take full tyrannical authority as
11:40
Speaker 2: an autocrat in the middle. He's going to be there though,
11:43
Speaker 2: but this is his time where he's released. He's on
11:45
Speaker 2: the scene now, right, he's released on the scene, but
11:48
Speaker 2: he begins to solidify the system, the b system and
11:50
Speaker 2: the governments along with the ten Kings or whatever that
11:53
Speaker 2: looks like, the ten figures, because he has an agenda.
11:56
Speaker 2: But he's not gonna well you can correct me here,
11:58
Speaker 2: but let's talk about is he can arrive on this
12:00
Speaker 2: on day one as a full dictator of the whole earth.
12:02
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Yeah, it's going to take a little while
12:05
Speaker 1: for everything to be set up, and then he's once
12:09
Speaker 1: he's established, then he's going to assert control over the
12:13
Speaker 1: ten Kings, and we know that three are going to
12:15
Speaker 1: fall in that process. And then once that's done, then
12:19
Speaker 1: he's going to assert his control over Israel in the
12:22
Speaker 1: rest of the world.
12:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, we see that happening in the midpoint to where
12:25
Speaker 2: really the midpoint is where there's a mortal wound. He
12:29
Speaker 2: goes and declares himself to be God. He's allegedly resurrected.
12:33
Speaker 2: Then he goes to be this tyrannical autocrab where he
12:36
Speaker 2: establishes the market of the Beast et cetera. Okay, I do.
12:39
Speaker 1: Want to take at one point though, you mentioned the seals,
12:41
Speaker 1: and I want to reinforce the point you made about
12:45
Speaker 1: consistency in our interpretation principles. If we're going to say
12:49
Speaker 1: that the rider on the first horse is a human being,
12:52
Speaker 1: you would think that the riders on the second, and third,
12:55
Speaker 1: and the fourth and fifth horses under the four seal
12:58
Speaker 1: would also be human beings. But since the other ones
13:02
Speaker 1: or angelic beings or figurative okay, that was that's where
13:07
Speaker 1: we have to go with the first one. Now, personally,
13:10
Speaker 1: I think each of the riders on those horses as
13:12
Speaker 1: literal angelic messengers. I wouldn't be surprised that the first
13:15
Speaker 1: one is Satan himself, because he is the one that's
13:19
Speaker 1: going to be ruling here on earth.
13:20
Speaker 2: The dragon. Yeah, clearly, it's his. It's his authority he's
13:22
Speaker 2: been given.
13:23
Speaker 1: And in the early Church, it's interesting to see the
13:25
Speaker 1: fathers jump back and forth between calling the beast the
13:30
Speaker 1: dragon and calling the dragon the beast, and they're they're
13:33
Speaker 1: dealing with the same tension that you were just addressing.
13:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that that that's well said. I mean, I
13:37
Speaker 2: could go along with that perfectly. It's just it's that
13:40
Speaker 2: consistency that I struggled with and going, well, you know,
13:43
Speaker 2: because everyone's like, well, that's the Antichrist. He's got a bow,
13:46
Speaker 2: he's he's going around on a literal horse. Is maybe
13:49
Speaker 2: he has a nine millimeter with no bullets. I mean
13:51
Speaker 2: you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute,
13:53
Speaker 2: that's a little bit too that's actually taking this imagery
13:58
Speaker 2: and uh and and sometimes making it a little bit
14:01
Speaker 2: too literal, especially because we are dealing with with imagery,
14:05
Speaker 2: were dealing with colors. I mean, what does that represent?
14:09
Speaker 2: But nevertheless, I think what we know is this your
14:13
Speaker 2: book ten Potent Proofs for the pre Tribulation Rapture. You
14:18
Speaker 2: have in there the word tribulation and you have the
14:20
Speaker 2: word pre So we want to understand this tribulation period
14:24
Speaker 2: and how it's distinct from just times of trouble. And
14:28
Speaker 2: so these people that accuse us of escapism, or especially
14:31
Speaker 2: Americans people accuse you see people in other countries get
14:35
Speaker 2: upset at American pre tribulational teaching because they're like, yeah,
14:40
Speaker 2: you guys think you get to escape everything? What gives
14:42
Speaker 2: you just because you're American Christians? That you know that
14:45
Speaker 2: you don't have to deal with trouble. It's like, hey,
14:47
Speaker 2: wait a minute, we never said that. And if people
14:49
Speaker 2: are saying that, then it's a miss misunderstanding or misrepresentation
14:54
Speaker 2: of the preacher doctrine.
14:56
Speaker 1: Absolutely no teacher that I I know in the pre
15:00
Speaker 1: tribulation rapture camp has ever taught that Christians can't see tribulation.
15:07
Speaker 1: That's a complete misunderstanding. The world is filled with believers
15:11
Speaker 1: in tribulation, and we even have tribulations here in America.
15:15
Speaker 1: Now most of us don't feel really strong tribulations. But
15:18
Speaker 1: if someone is getting thrown in jail or fined because
15:21
Speaker 1: of their stand on the alphabet issue and they're not
15:25
Speaker 1: going to you know, they're working in their bakery and
15:28
Speaker 1: they refuse to bake for certain parties, or they've refuse
15:32
Speaker 1: to admit certain parties, they face tribulation over that, and
15:36
Speaker 1: that's it's real and it's painful. The pre tribulation rapture
15:41
Speaker 1: position is saying that there's a period of exceptional tribulation
15:45
Speaker 1: at the end of the age which is going to
15:47
Speaker 1: go far beyond in degree any tribulation in the previous
15:51
Speaker 1: history of the world. It's going to take the world
15:53
Speaker 1: where they've never been before, not only in seeing persecution
15:57
Speaker 1: worse than they've ever seen before, but in seeing what
16:01
Speaker 1: we would regard as acts of God to a degree
16:04
Speaker 1: they've never seen before, with earthquakes and visitations from asteroids
16:09
Speaker 1: and comets from.
16:10
Speaker 2: Space, blood water turning to blood, poisons, bitterness, warmwood, I mean,
16:14
Speaker 2: let you name it, right.
16:15
Speaker 1: And then supernatural manifestations way beyond what the world has
16:19
Speaker 1: ever seen before. So that's what the tribulation is that
16:22
Speaker 1: we get delivered from. And we don't get delivered from
16:25
Speaker 1: that merely and only because the church can't see tribulation.
16:30
Speaker 1: We get delivered from it because this tribulation is severe
16:34
Speaker 1: enough it falls under the category of judgment.
16:37
Speaker 2: You don't want to say something else too, which I
16:39
Speaker 2: think is important here because again we're talking about that.
16:43
Speaker 2: One of your proofs in here is talking about the wrath.
16:47
Speaker 2: We have to talk about that. But what I find
16:50
Speaker 2: interesting is that you have four main views. You got
16:54
Speaker 2: the pre triview, you got the mid triview, you got
16:56
Speaker 2: the post review, and then you have the pre wrath,
16:58
Speaker 2: which is kind of a three quarter view YEP, three
17:00
Speaker 2: quarter raps review it Within there, the pre trip position
17:06
Speaker 2: says very clearly that there are no Church people in
17:11
Speaker 2: the scatological wrath of God. Now again a pre wrath says, oh, well,
17:16
Speaker 2: they're pre wrath, so the wrath is only the last
17:19
Speaker 2: quarter and therefore they're pulled out, so they're they're not
17:22
Speaker 2: pre trib. We believe the entire tribulation seven your period
17:26
Speaker 2: is the wrath. So if they believe that, well then
17:28
Speaker 2: they would be pre tribe too, they would be pre
17:30
Speaker 2: seventy week, pre day or whatever. But what I find
17:33
Speaker 2: interesting here, Lee, get your thoughts on this, is that
17:37
Speaker 2: I've tried to note that the pre wrath, pre wrath,
17:43
Speaker 2: mid trib, and post trib all believe that there are
17:47
Speaker 2: no believers in the s catological wrath. That's right. The
17:52
Speaker 2: pre trib says, no, there are believers in the s
17:54
Speaker 2: catological wrath, but they're tribulation saints. It's just not the Church.
17:58
Speaker 2: So we look at it. We're the only ones that
18:01
Speaker 2: say there are there are believers in the wrath of
18:04
Speaker 2: God that happen on the earth, where all of them
18:08
Speaker 2: say no, they're pulled out before even the post trip.
18:11
Speaker 2: They believe the last twenty four hours is the wrath
18:14
Speaker 2: of God, and they're rescued. They're rapture. I don't know where
18:16
Speaker 2: they're hanging for twenty four hours, but they're hanging for
18:18
Speaker 2: them before that last twenty four hour period of the
18:20
Speaker 2: wrath of God. But we go no, no, no. And so
18:23
Speaker 2: here's here's why I bring this up. It's another evidence
18:28
Speaker 2: of why the pre tribulation rapture is true. Because in
18:32
Speaker 2: Revelation seven you have these martyrs that the great multitude. Yep,
18:38
Speaker 2: they're coming up, and it says all these they're no
18:41
Speaker 2: more tears, no more pain, no more sorrow, And it says,
18:46
Speaker 2: and the sun will not scorch them anymore. You're like these,
18:51
Speaker 2: and it says, who are these? These are are coming
18:53
Speaker 2: out of the Great Tribulation. These are believers, and they
18:55
Speaker 2: have coming out and the sun has scorched them. Well,
18:58
Speaker 2: I find it interesting if you go to Revelation six
19:00
Speaker 2: s same Greek words as a very specific only prayers
19:02
Speaker 2: a couple of times in Revelation sixteen eighty nine. One
19:06
Speaker 2: of the bulls is where the sun gets hot. This
19:10
Speaker 2: is wrath. This is one of the bulls of wrath.
19:13
Speaker 2: And it says clearly that the sun gets such degree.
19:16
Speaker 2: Then it uses two words. It uses scorching and it
19:18
Speaker 2: uses heat, and it says the scorching and the heat
19:22
Speaker 2: come upon all the people on the earth. Well, Revelation
19:25
Speaker 2: seven just told us that these believers experienced that wrath
19:33
Speaker 2: of God. And in my mind, I'm thinking, hey, pre wrath,
19:37
Speaker 2: I thought you said there were no believers there. Post trip.
19:39
Speaker 2: I thought you said there's no believers there. Mid trip,
19:42
Speaker 2: there's no believers there. These believers are experiencing the wrath
19:45
Speaker 2: of God in a collateral way, because Revelation seven says
19:49
Speaker 2: clearly they did. But for a preacher, we go what,
19:51
Speaker 2: it's no problem with our view because we think there
19:54
Speaker 2: are believers there, that's exactly, and they are going to experience.
19:57
Speaker 2: That's why when they need to get out before the
19:59
Speaker 2: rap you know, in the rapture, because there will be
20:01
Speaker 2: believers that experience some parts of the bulls of wrath.
20:05
Speaker 2: We're we're the only group that teaches that. And I
20:07
Speaker 2: think it matches up with Revelation. Do your thoughts on that.
20:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, even when we come to the end of
20:12
Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation, late in there we get into
20:14
Speaker 1: Revelation chapter eighteen, we read come out of her, my people,
20:18
Speaker 1: lest you be a partaker for sins is talking about
20:21
Speaker 1: if you don't leave, you're going to experience the same
20:23
Speaker 1: judgment that's fallen on them. Yes, and so here the
20:26
Speaker 1: Lord again a clear evidence that there will be believers
20:32
Speaker 1: in the tribulation that are going to can experience the judgment.
20:36
Speaker 1: Now we have clear promises, especially for the Jewish remnant,
20:40
Speaker 1: that some of them are going to be preserve miraculously
20:42
Speaker 1: all the way through. But that promise does not apply
20:46
Speaker 1: to every Jew, and it certainly does not apply to
20:48
Speaker 1: the gentiles in general.
20:49
Speaker 2: Yep. And we know that by the end that even
20:52
Speaker 2: though you know, maybe some believers, you know, who are
20:56
Speaker 2: scorched by the sun, that maybe some of them go underground,
21:00
Speaker 2: they're able to avoid that. So we obviously know that
21:02
Speaker 2: there's believing Gentiles at the end of the tribulation, just
21:05
Speaker 2: like there are believing Jews the one third that make it.
21:07
Speaker 2: And so but for the most part, you got four
21:10
Speaker 2: billion people dead at least, you know, at least probably
21:15
Speaker 2: even more. So let's jump into your book here, because
21:18
Speaker 2: you you were hearing to talk about why you wrote
21:21
Speaker 2: this book. This is relatively recent, and we know that
21:25
Speaker 2: the pre triposition is very attacked. It's very misunderstood. It's
21:30
Speaker 2: very misrepresented. So talk about why you decided to put
21:32
Speaker 2: these ten proofs together.
21:35
Speaker 1: Well, I've observed that there's a tremendous and increasing attack
21:39
Speaker 1: on the pre tribulation rapture, and it comes from a
21:42
Speaker 1: lot of quarters. Comes from those that believe in a
21:44
Speaker 1: post trib rapture, comes from those who believe in a
21:46
Speaker 1: pre trib rapture, comes from people that are post millennial
21:49
Speaker 1: trying to establish the Kingdom on Earth, and they just
21:52
Speaker 1: don't have any time of day for any kind of prophecy.
21:55
Speaker 1: So in the midst of all this attack, and one
21:58
Speaker 1: of the common arguments you hear there is no proof
22:02
Speaker 1: at all in the Bible and not a single verse
22:06
Speaker 1: for a pre trib rapture. And when I hear these arguments,
22:11
Speaker 1: my first inclination is, Oh, these people haven't even read
22:14
Speaker 1: the Bible. But it turns out that some of them
22:16
Speaker 1: have and they're just living in deep seated prejudice. So
22:21
Speaker 1: I wanted to respond to this. Now, there's probably not
22:23
Speaker 1: much chance that people that are really strongly convinced of
22:28
Speaker 1: a post trip rapture, for instance, are going to be
22:30
Speaker 1: convinced by a book that I might write But if
22:33
Speaker 1: people are not super strong in their prejudice and they're
22:37
Speaker 1: just inclined that way, or if they're on the fence,
22:40
Speaker 1: then maybe a book like this can help. So what
22:43
Speaker 1: I did is I brought proof of a pre tribulation rapture. Now,
22:49
Speaker 1: some people don't want to talk about proof of a
22:52
Speaker 1: pre trip rapture. They'd rather talk about, well, I'm inclined
22:56
Speaker 1: to believe in a pre trip rapture, or they might
22:59
Speaker 1: say this is my opinion, I might be wrong. Well,
23:03
Speaker 1: I can't go there because I don't believe that my
23:06
Speaker 1: belief in a pre trib rapture is my opinion. I
23:09
Speaker 1: don't believe it is opinion. This is lee brainerd looking
23:14
Speaker 1: at the Bible and seeing God written words that teach
23:20
Speaker 1: a pre tribulation rapture or demand or necessitate a pre
23:23
Speaker 1: tribulation rapture. So if someone wants to talk about an opinion,
23:27
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to talk about God's opinion. And so
23:31
Speaker 1: when I put together ten proofs, I've made each chapter
23:35
Speaker 1: a distinct argument for a pre tribulation rapture that even
23:39
Speaker 1: person a person who's not a strong reader can sit
23:43
Speaker 1: down at night and read one chapter a night the
23:46
Speaker 1: book is only about one hundred pages, and that was
23:49
Speaker 1: my goal to give people proof for a pre tribulation
23:53
Speaker 1: rapture so they can get off the fence, or so
23:55
Speaker 1: they can be strengthened or maybe even delivered.
23:58
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because when I was listening to
24:01
Speaker 2: a program I don't know, and they were talking about
24:04
Speaker 2: we were offering ten thousand dollars for anybody can give
24:07
Speaker 2: us a single verse, you know, for the pre tribulation rapture.
24:11
Speaker 2: It's just not there. And then, you know, I'll tell
24:14
Speaker 2: you what I could send in this book and how
24:16
Speaker 2: I got ten proofs here, and I'll split the ten
24:18
Speaker 2: I'll split the ten thousand with it, even though you
24:20
Speaker 2: wrote it. But since I'm reaching out, yeah yeah, cut absolutely.
24:23
Speaker 2: But they're going to get this book and they're going
24:25
Speaker 2: to go, yeah, we disagree with your interpretation. So the
24:28
Speaker 2: idea of offering a ten thousand is just it's a gimmick.
24:31
Speaker 2: It's sensationalism at its best, because all they got to
24:36
Speaker 2: do is say, well, again, you're interpreting it wrong. So
24:39
Speaker 2: let me want to discuss that for a minute, because
24:42
Speaker 2: let me let me say it this way now, getting
24:45
Speaker 2: into offending any you know King James only people. That's
24:49
Speaker 2: not my goal. But when we look for example, I
24:53
Speaker 2: had this problem years ago when I first became a Christian.
24:58
Speaker 2: First to being a Christian, I'm reading the Bible and
25:00
Speaker 2: I'm memorized in scripture, and my Bible of choice at
25:03
Speaker 2: the time was in New King James version, which was
25:06
Speaker 2: based on the majority text okay, Greek manuscript trans tradition.
25:12
Speaker 2: I didn't know that at the time. I'm just reading
25:13
Speaker 2: the New King James and as I'm reading along, I
25:17
Speaker 2: come to first John five to seven. There are three
25:19
Speaker 2: that better witnesses Heaven, the Father, the Son, and the
25:21
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit, and these three are one. I thought, whoa,
25:25
Speaker 2: that's a great verse for the Trinity. So in my enthusiasm,
25:30
Speaker 2: I'm evangelizing. I'm talking to a Jehovah's witness, and man,
25:34
Speaker 2: I whip out First John five seven like a hammer baby.
25:37
Speaker 2: I mean, they said, there's no proof of the Trinity, man,
25:39
Speaker 2: and here's my hammer verse. And they said, well, don't
25:44
Speaker 2: you know that that's not in the earliest manuscripts. And
25:47
Speaker 2: I was like, what I didn't understand at the time,
25:51
Speaker 2: textual criticism or understanding manuscript tradition or whatever. And I thought, oh,
25:57
Speaker 2: and clearly I would say that that was the earliest
26:01
Speaker 2: manuscripts don't have that. So later, in my view, as
26:05
Speaker 2: you have copyists and editors, I believe they added that.
26:09
Speaker 2: You know, somebody added that in and introduced it into
26:12
Speaker 2: the manuscript tradition at some time, and then it became
26:15
Speaker 2: the majority later, but it's not in some of the
26:18
Speaker 2: earliest manuscripts, So that again, from textual criticism principles, you
26:22
Speaker 2: would say I was added later by somebody who was
26:25
Speaker 2: trying to be help. He was trying to help. My
26:27
Speaker 2: point in all that is simply to say, that is
26:30
Speaker 2: a great verse for the Trinity. But if we don't
26:33
Speaker 2: have that, because it doesn't exist in the earliest manuscripts,
26:36
Speaker 2: how do we defend the Trinity?
26:38
Speaker 1: Yep?
26:38
Speaker 2: I mean what verses do we have for the Trinity?
26:41
Speaker 2: Is that very clear? That? That's a great clear It's
26:46
Speaker 2: very logical, there's no ambiguity. These three are one. But
26:51
Speaker 2: if we don't have that to appeal to, do we
26:55
Speaker 2: believe in the Trinity? Yes, but God has put a
26:58
Speaker 2: little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit
27:01
Speaker 2: over here to make us think and explore and execute
27:05
Speaker 2: the passages. And then when we take the collective idea
27:08
Speaker 2: of systematic theology or theology of the Bible, we come
27:12
Speaker 2: and we go. No, the Trinity is very defensible, even
27:15
Speaker 2: though we don't have that first shown five sevens which
27:18
Speaker 2: came later. You know, maybe Matthew twenty eight. You're baptize
27:21
Speaker 2: in the name singular of the Father Son in the
27:22
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. But apart from that, John lewis, make man,
27:26
Speaker 2: let us make man in our image. But that's not
27:28
Speaker 2: clear Lee. I mean, we can read it doesn't say
27:32
Speaker 2: let us three father Son on the Holy Spirit make
27:35
Speaker 2: man in our image. So what God. I'm not saying
27:37
Speaker 2: you're wrong, but it's God has put his theology a
27:42
Speaker 2: truth like the Trinity, the triunity of God. He's put
27:45
Speaker 2: a little bit here like that. That's a little hint.
27:47
Speaker 2: He's put a little hint over here. But he expects
27:50
Speaker 2: us to do our due diligence and to read so
27:53
Speaker 2: in the same way. I think that the preatri rapture
27:57
Speaker 2: is stronger than that. I think it's even stronger than
27:59
Speaker 2: the true Trinity view in the sense of evidence. But
28:04
Speaker 2: why doesn't it say, hey, everyone, you would be delivered
28:08
Speaker 2: from the exact seven year period, which is called the
28:10
Speaker 2: Day of the Lord, the wrath of God, etc. Prior
28:13
Speaker 2: you won't even see the Antichrist. See when they say
28:15
Speaker 2: that we want this verse, they want it to be
28:17
Speaker 2: written like that. Yeah, and it's not written like that
28:20
Speaker 2: in the Bible, is it. No.
28:22
Speaker 1: What we have just similar to a piecemeal presentation of
28:26
Speaker 1: the Trinity, a piecemeal presentation of any theological doctrine that
28:31
Speaker 1: we want to take up. We have a piecemeal presentation
28:34
Speaker 1: of the pretrib raptor, we have a piecemeal presentation of
28:38
Speaker 1: the seventieth Week. We have a peace meal presentation of
28:41
Speaker 1: the Antichrist. This is just the way the Bible is written.
28:45
Speaker 2: Now.
28:45
Speaker 1: The Lord wants us to use our God given reason
28:48
Speaker 1: on the God given revelation and come to conclusions that
28:53
Speaker 1: would pass muster in that court of heaven, where you
28:56
Speaker 1: present the evidence and you come to a conclusion, and
29:01
Speaker 1: then you test it against other passages of scripture and
29:03
Speaker 1: you modify your conclusions until you have a position that
29:09
Speaker 1: doesn't offend on any passages scripture that that addresses the subject.
29:15
Speaker 1: And we do this with the pre tribulation rapture. We take,
29:18
Speaker 1: for instance, the promises that the seventieth Week is addressed
29:22
Speaker 1: to the Jews and not to the Church. We take
29:25
Speaker 1: passages of promise from the Church will be delivered from
29:28
Speaker 1: the raft to come. We take passages which present the
29:32
Speaker 1: Church in heaven before the opening of the First Seal
29:36
Speaker 1: in chapter six, because we see the Church in heaven
29:39
Speaker 1: in chapters four and five of Revelation. So we take
29:42
Speaker 1: these kind of arguments, and when we put them together,
29:46
Speaker 1: we have a rock solid case for a pretribulation rapture.
29:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so let's let's let's talk about some of those,
29:52
Speaker 2: because obviously we can't cover all of them here in
29:55
Speaker 2: the remaining time that we have. But I think that
29:58
Speaker 2: setting the stage for setting the stage for what the
30:04
Speaker 2: tribulation is, I thought that was important to do. And
30:07
Speaker 2: so look you have here. Let me just read these
30:10
Speaker 2: and we'll jump into some of them. Proof number one,
30:12
Speaker 2: the distinct Future of Israel, Proof number two, the seventieth
30:15
Speaker 2: Week appointed for Israel, Proof number three Israel, and the tribulation.
30:20
Speaker 2: Proof number four, deliverance from Wrath. We got proof number
30:24
Speaker 2: five Church in Heaven, as you just mentioned before, the
30:27
Speaker 2: tribulation number six types of the rapture. Looking at some
30:30
Speaker 2: of the typology that we see. Proof seven, the coming
30:35
Speaker 2: of the Son of Man as we find a thief
30:37
Speaker 2: in the night. That language relative normality, like, that's really good.
30:40
Speaker 2: And element discourse in Luke seventeen. Proof eight the nature
30:43
Speaker 2: of the seals? When does the wrath begin? Proof number nine,
30:47
Speaker 2: Rapture in the Second Coming? Distinguished. That's really really important
30:50
Speaker 2: because that's often people are confused about what that looks like,
30:54
Speaker 2: the rapture versus what happens at the Second Coming? And
30:58
Speaker 2: then Proof ten the Body and the Bride of Christ.
31:02
Speaker 2: So with some of these, let's jump into a couple
31:06
Speaker 2: of them, which I mean if you did, if you
31:09
Speaker 2: had to go, and I'm going to force you here, Okay,
31:14
Speaker 2: all you get to one verse? Put your best verse forward, lee, brainerd.
31:18
Speaker 2: That's all you get, not ten, Sorry, man, you get one.
31:23
Speaker 2: It's kind of the same way that I was forced
31:25
Speaker 2: with the Trinity. Yep, what is the best verse? Which
31:29
Speaker 2: you think contributes the most? Not only I mean we
31:32
Speaker 2: wouldn't have it all from that one, but which verse
31:34
Speaker 2: contributes the most?
31:35
Speaker 1: If I was only allowed one verse, I would turn
31:38
Speaker 1: to Revelation three.
31:39
Speaker 2: Ten.
31:39
Speaker 1: I agree, because you have kept the word of my patients,
31:43
Speaker 1: or the matter of my patients. I will also keep
31:45
Speaker 1: you from the hour of trial which shall come upon
31:49
Speaker 1: the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth,
31:52
Speaker 1: the earth dwellers. Yes, very clear. Passage in my mind
31:56
Speaker 1: doesn't say I'll keep you or preserve you through that time,
31:59
Speaker 1: says I will keep you from that time.
32:01
Speaker 2: The very hour itself. Yep. Yeah, I totally agree, and
32:05
Speaker 2: I'm glad. I'm glad here you have that as it
32:08
Speaker 2: relates to deliverance from wrath and Proof number four. But
32:11
Speaker 2: even in Proof number four, deliverance from math not appointed
32:15
Speaker 2: to wrath, tribulation of wrath to stink you. Wrath comes
32:19
Speaker 2: in degrees, but you have there are a couple others. You
32:23
Speaker 2: have Revelation three ten, but you also have John fourteen
32:27
Speaker 2: one through three, and second Thestonians two one through three. Yeah,
32:30
Speaker 2: so talk about the contribution of John fourteen. Let not
32:35
Speaker 2: your hearts be trouble. You believe in God, believe also
32:37
Speaker 2: in me, my father's health. There many mansions. If it
32:40
Speaker 2: were not so, I would have told you I go
32:41
Speaker 2: away to prepare a place for you so that when
32:43
Speaker 2: I come back, I will receive you to myself. So
32:48
Speaker 2: that how does that contribute to the understanding of not
32:53
Speaker 2: just a rapture, but a preacher rapture.
32:56
Speaker 1: Well, if you look at the passage, what is being
32:59
Speaker 1: presented is a next time the Lord physically interacts with
33:02
Speaker 1: the Church. They're not going to go from point A
33:05
Speaker 1: on Earth to point BE on Earth. This is not
33:07
Speaker 1: a post trip gathering. They're going to go to New
33:11
Speaker 1: Jerusalem to be in the Father's House and to dwell
33:14
Speaker 1: in one of the mansions that the Lord has built
33:17
Speaker 1: over the last two thousand years for each of his believers. Now,
33:22
Speaker 1: if you're going to think through the ramifications of this,
33:26
Speaker 1: this departure to heaven, there really is no place for this.
33:30
Speaker 1: If you are going to talk believe in a post
33:33
Speaker 1: trip rapture, where does this going to heaven fit. I mean,
33:37
Speaker 1: you might be able to take a gathering to the
33:39
Speaker 1: clouds and you're hanging around for a day and then
33:41
Speaker 1: you come back down, or hang around for a few hours,
33:43
Speaker 1: come back down. But if you're going to the heaven
33:47
Speaker 1: to be with Jesus and be with him forever, this
33:50
Speaker 1: just kind of leaves the post trip rapture concept in
33:55
Speaker 1: the dust. You know.
33:56
Speaker 2: Compare that to in my mind John fourteen in isolation.
34:02
Speaker 2: In isolation, there's not a timing factor there. I mean,
34:05
Speaker 2: I exegetically you can see that. But comparing John fourteen
34:09
Speaker 2: with Revelation four and.
34:11
Speaker 1: Five, yes, that's exactly right.
34:13
Speaker 2: You bring those two to harmonize together, and all of
34:16
Speaker 2: a sudden you're like, whoa, so talk about explain how
34:20
Speaker 2: that is, because I know you discussed it in the book.
34:21
Speaker 2: But how does those two alone just pretty much establish
34:26
Speaker 2: a strong case.
34:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so we have a promise in John fourteen
34:30
Speaker 1: that the church, next time they physically interact with the
34:33
Speaker 1: Lord are going to be going to the New Jerusalem.
34:36
Speaker 1: We come to Revelation four and five. Starting in verse one,
34:40
Speaker 1: we see a typology of the rapture.
34:42
Speaker 2: Come up here, come up your door open, come up here, yep.
34:44
Speaker 1: And so John finds himself in heaven. He's looking around.
34:47
Speaker 1: He sees twenty four elders gathered around the throne of
34:50
Speaker 1: God in the court of the Lord in heaven. Now,
34:55
Speaker 1: it's pretty common in the commentary as to say, well,
34:57
Speaker 1: we don't really know who these twenty four are. There
35:00
Speaker 1: very very mysterious creatures. But if you take the hints
35:05
Speaker 1: that are given in scripture and trust them, it tells
35:09
Speaker 1: us exactly who these twenty four are. So, for instance,
35:13
Speaker 1: they these according to Revelation chapter five.
35:16
Speaker 2: First, I want to interrupt just a second because I'm
35:18
Speaker 2: going to let you go. But when we say hints,
35:21
Speaker 2: actually I would just say look for the words. Look
35:23
Speaker 2: for words, and you're going to talk about the words.
35:26
Speaker 2: So these are I know you didn't mean it that way,
35:28
Speaker 2: but I don't want people to say, well what hint. No, no,
35:30
Speaker 2: look for the words, look for the descriptors of who
35:32
Speaker 2: these people are, right, So talk about those.
35:35
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, These words are like clues for a treasure.
35:38
Speaker 2: As they jump right off the page.
35:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So, for instance, we see that they're bought
35:45
Speaker 1: by the blood of Christ, their blood redeemed. This means
35:49
Speaker 1: they cannot be angels, they cannot be any other kind
35:52
Speaker 1: of creature except human beings. That's Revelation five nine. So
35:58
Speaker 1: then we also see that there's seated on thrones, this
36:02
Speaker 1: is in chapter four, and they're wearing their Stefano's reward crowns. Now,
36:07
Speaker 1: nobody gets their reward with their throne and their crown
36:10
Speaker 1: before the resurrection. So the fact that they have a
36:13
Speaker 1: crown and they have their throne means that they have
36:18
Speaker 1: been resurrected.
36:19
Speaker 2: Already and they've gone through the judgment seat of Christ.
36:23
Speaker 2: You know Roman's fourteen ten Sagrathines five to ten. They've
36:25
Speaker 2: already gone through that process, and they've come through first
36:28
Speaker 2: christeen three, where they've already been judged according you know,
36:31
Speaker 2: for their works, not salvation but works. There's stewardship, and
36:35
Speaker 2: then they've been rewarded. Now, now this is like a
36:37
Speaker 2: post reward post reward like way, wait, who are these
36:41
Speaker 2: people that have already got their rewards? They're already here
36:43
Speaker 2: with their crowns. Yeah, let me just add this here too,
36:46
Speaker 2: that these are people sitting on thrones where if you
36:51
Speaker 2: look at any of the things in the Old Testament
36:53
Speaker 2: Daniel seven, Isaiah six, there's group there's no group of
36:58
Speaker 2: redeems sitting on thrones anywhere in those Old Testament throne
37:01
Speaker 2: room scenes. Yes, this is new, that's right, This new
37:04
Speaker 2: group come from.
37:05
Speaker 1: Yes, and you go beyond that, we see that the
37:10
Speaker 1: saints that are seated on these thrones around the Lord,
37:15
Speaker 1: they watch the lamb come to the Father receive the scroll.
37:19
Speaker 1: Now the scroll is the title deed to the Earth,
37:23
Speaker 1: and they get to be there when the Lord starts
37:26
Speaker 1: peeling those seals back on the scroll and reclaiming his
37:31
Speaker 1: rightful inheritance and ownership of the entire globe.
37:36
Speaker 2: And this is.
37:36
Speaker 1: Before the the so that they're up there watching when
37:40
Speaker 1: the first seal is opened in chapter six. Yeah, so
37:44
Speaker 1: they're there before any of the tribulation. So the church
37:47
Speaker 1: goes up, they go through the judgment Seat of Christ,
37:51
Speaker 1: they go into the throne Room of God, they're resurrected,
37:54
Speaker 1: they are rewarded, and then they get to watch as
37:59
Speaker 1: the seals are open and the Lord begins his theocratic
38:03
Speaker 1: government on earth.
38:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's important because in John seventeen, verse twenty four,
38:11
Speaker 2: Jesus makes the claim about that. He goes, Lord, it's
38:15
Speaker 2: my will, I desire the way a phrase, it's actual,
38:17
Speaker 2: a little stronger fellow. It's not like I wish, It's
38:20
Speaker 2: like I will it that we see Jesus. He says,
38:25
Speaker 2: I want them to see me in my glory. Yes,
38:28
Speaker 2: I want them to see me in my fullness of
38:30
Speaker 2: who I am. And the Church hasn't seen that, not physically.
38:35
Speaker 2: But where do you see that? Well, we see it
38:37
Speaker 2: in heaven. So imagine there we are and we get
38:39
Speaker 2: to see him. And now there's the lamb around the
38:42
Speaker 2: throne and we get to see the fullness of his
38:44
Speaker 2: glory begin to be implemented in the earth, where like
38:49
Speaker 2: you said, the opening of the seals is the beginning
38:52
Speaker 2: of his kingdom establishment on Earth. It's going to come
38:55
Speaker 2: with judgment. It's going to come with it's going to
38:57
Speaker 2: take seven years, that's what he's chosen in order to
39:00
Speaker 2: establish it. But he's got a cleanse he's got to
39:03
Speaker 2: allow humanity this final opportunity. He's going to give the
39:07
Speaker 2: dragon his opportunity for blah blah blah. But it is judgment.
39:11
Speaker 2: But we get to see the glory of the Lamb
39:14
Speaker 2: begin to take shape, and we're front row seats. Jesus said,
39:18
Speaker 2: it's my will, Lord that they see my father, that
39:20
Speaker 2: they see me right here in it.
39:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely so we see the promise of going to glory.
39:27
Speaker 1: We see the saints in glory with their reward, and
39:31
Speaker 1: we see them there when the first seal is opened.
39:34
Speaker 1: And this you add now in the Revelation three ten
39:36
Speaker 1: that we already touched on, and that is a theological
39:40
Speaker 1: description of how they're delivered from the judgment.
39:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean again, we're you know, you've written
39:45
Speaker 2: a whole book on this, which we're just trying to
39:47
Speaker 2: cover a little bit of it. The other that talk
39:52
Speaker 2: about the continuity there the theological biblical theological continuity between
39:57
Speaker 2: the rapture being taught in chapter four or of Thessalonians
40:01
Speaker 2: for Salalonians thirteen through eighteen, and then immediately in chapter five,
40:05
Speaker 2: which we know there's no chapter breaks right. Originally chapter
40:08
Speaker 2: five he begins to talk about the seasons, the times,
40:12
Speaker 2: the day of the Lord, peace and safety, talk about
40:15
Speaker 2: that transition from hope and comfort into more description and
40:20
Speaker 2: how the timing of the factor comes into chapter five,
40:22
Speaker 2: because let me just say it this way, chapter four
40:24
Speaker 2: there's really no timing. We know there's a resurrection, there's
40:27
Speaker 2: a rapture first, but he's not talking about the time
40:29
Speaker 2: because he goes into chapter five.
40:31
Speaker 1: Yes, so in chapter four we see a couple elements
40:35
Speaker 1: that are very encouraging to me. We see the mention
40:38
Speaker 1: of the perusia, which is the coming of the Lord,
40:41
Speaker 1: that's his coming and glory, and it's associated with the
40:45
Speaker 1: apponticus of the Perusia. Now these are Greek words, and
40:50
Speaker 1: it's probably seems a little over the head for some people.
40:53
Speaker 2: It's apt for people.
40:54
Speaker 1: That's where we're going okay, soars yep, yep. It's I know,
40:57
Speaker 1: it's Greek words that are over people's head, but the
41:00
Speaker 1: appontics is what's translated the meet or the go out
41:03
Speaker 1: to meet, to meet yep. And so, even though it's
41:08
Speaker 1: used in a lot of just everyday Greek usages, in
41:11
Speaker 1: everyday Greek, when it comes to the entrance of a king,
41:14
Speaker 1: when he's taking his kingdom or when he's owning a
41:18
Speaker 1: new piece of conquered territory, the king would have a
41:20
Speaker 1: royal entrance in one of the cities. And so the
41:24
Speaker 1: king would be making his royal entrance or his royal perusia.
41:28
Speaker 1: He would come to the town, his faithful would go
41:32
Speaker 1: out to meet him. They might go out a half
41:34
Speaker 1: day journey, a full day journey, a two day journey,
41:36
Speaker 1: even more than two days, and that's the going out
41:39
Speaker 1: to meet, that's the aponticus, and then they would accompany
41:43
Speaker 1: him in his royal perusia. So the picture here for
41:46
Speaker 1: the church in one Esslonians chapter four is that there
41:50
Speaker 1: the Lord's going to come in his royal entrance to
41:53
Speaker 1: be the king of the earth, but the church is
41:56
Speaker 1: going to go out first at the Apontics or the meeting,
41:59
Speaker 1: and they're going to meet the Lord in the air,
42:02
Speaker 1: and then we're going to of course we know from
42:04
Speaker 1: John fourteen and Revelation four and five that were not
42:08
Speaker 1: immediately coming back down. We're going to spend time in
42:11
Speaker 1: heaven training to reign and preparing to be the bride
42:16
Speaker 1: of Christ. And then we finished that coming with the
42:19
Speaker 1: Lord in is Perusia. Now when we move to chapter five,
42:23
Speaker 1: it's very interesting because Chapter four says, I don't want
42:27
Speaker 1: you to be ignorant, brethren, and he explains to the
42:29
Speaker 1: material they're not very familiar with or don't know at all. Well,
42:33
Speaker 1: we come to chapter five, he says, now, I don't
42:36
Speaker 1: need to teach you. Nobody needs to teach you about
42:38
Speaker 1: the Day, the times, and the seasons. You understand fully.
42:42
Speaker 1: Now we move into the Day of the Lord, which
42:44
Speaker 1: is clearly taught in the Old Testament. They were very
42:47
Speaker 1: familiar with it, and it was clearly taught in the
42:50
Speaker 1: Gospels too, the coming of the days of the Sun
42:52
Speaker 1: of Man and the coming of the Sun of Man.
42:54
Speaker 1: So they were familiar with the subject. And then the
42:57
Speaker 1: Lord walks them through the coming of the Day of
43:00
Speaker 1: the Lord, which is going to dawn upon the world
43:02
Speaker 1: like birth pangs upon a woman. It's going to start bad,
43:05
Speaker 1: and it's going to increase in intensity and frequency and
43:08
Speaker 1: severity all the way through to the very end. So
43:12
Speaker 1: what a blessing. The church is going to go up
43:14
Speaker 1: in the rapture and be with the Lord forever. And
43:18
Speaker 1: immediately after when the church is delivered, then this birth
43:23
Speaker 1: pangs of the wrath that God are going to start
43:25
Speaker 1: breaking on the world and the world is going to
43:27
Speaker 1: have sudden judgment come upon them out of the blue,
43:32
Speaker 1: just like the flood came upon the world and Noah's
43:34
Speaker 1: Day out of the blue.
43:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the other thing that you bring up
43:37
Speaker 2: to which I think is important is in chapter five
43:43
Speaker 2: you have this idea of peace, yes, safety, and then
43:46
Speaker 2: you can compare that again, you compare that with the
43:49
Speaker 2: chronology of Luke seventeen Matthew twenty four, talking just about
43:54
Speaker 2: people are living, they're casual, they're living normally, they're relatively normally,
43:58
Speaker 2: they're buying or selling, they're planting, and all of a sudden,
44:00
Speaker 2: this judgment lands on them. It begins to land on them,
44:04
Speaker 2: and they're taken unaware, like whoa we weren't expecting this again,
44:08
Speaker 2: a thief the day Lord comes like a thief in
44:11
Speaker 2: the night. We see that all over the scripture. And
44:13
Speaker 2: so when you compare all of these things again, you're
44:16
Speaker 2: you're comparing it that the only place that you have
44:19
Speaker 2: relative living, casual living is before. I mean, think about it.
44:25
Speaker 2: Jesus said that the time of trouble is the worst
44:27
Speaker 2: it's ever been in history, So it has to come
44:29
Speaker 2: before that. And if we're looking early on in Revelation
44:33
Speaker 2: chapter six a lot long, I mean in the second
44:37
Speaker 2: in the second horse, now we have war and we
44:39
Speaker 2: have major death. So the idea that we have to
44:44
Speaker 2: wait till all the way to the three quarter position, yes,
44:47
Speaker 2: and that it's relative nice living all the way up
44:50
Speaker 2: until that time of rescue, that doesn't seem to agree
44:55
Speaker 2: with the rest of scripture that talks even from the
44:57
Speaker 2: beginning parts of the when the seals are opened the
45:02
Speaker 2: seventieth week, yep, that you're gonna have trouble all through there.
45:06
Speaker 2: So the only real place to have that is prior,
45:08
Speaker 2: isn't it.
45:08
Speaker 1: That's right? And what's interesting The point you're making here
45:13
Speaker 1: is very important in my mind, because we have people
45:16
Speaker 1: that say that we're in the seals already right now.
45:19
Speaker 1: And we have people that say that the Church is
45:22
Speaker 1: going to go through the seals before the rapture. Well,
45:26
Speaker 1: when you take one of these two positions, you have
45:29
Speaker 1: to dumb those seals down and not take them with
45:33
Speaker 1: the severe degree that they're stated in scripture. And to me,
45:38
Speaker 1: this is an unnerving it's a rattling practice. And I
45:43
Speaker 1: you know, we have some relatively big names out there
45:45
Speaker 1: in the prophecy world that present that position, and I
45:50
Speaker 1: would just wish that they would all just see, Wow,
45:53
Speaker 1: if the fourced seal takes a court of the world's population,
45:56
Speaker 1: it takes a court of the world's population.
45:58
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that yet.
45:59
Speaker 1: No, and peace taken from the entire earth. World War
46:03
Speaker 1: two didn't take peace from maybe twenty percent of the
46:06
Speaker 1: surface of the earth.
46:06
Speaker 2: It's the second seal, right to take peace from the earth.
46:10
Speaker 2: That's early. I mean that Jesus opens the seal, right,
46:13
Speaker 2: so that's very early, so that we haven't seen that yet.
46:16
Speaker 1: And we haven't seen what the first seal portrays, which
46:22
Speaker 1: of course we know that the rider and the horse
46:24
Speaker 1: can't be the Antichrist himself, but it is the man
46:27
Speaker 1: behind the Antichrist, Satan himself and the system, his system,
46:31
Speaker 1: his man is going to come rolling forth after the
46:34
Speaker 1: rapture of the church, and in a very short order time.
46:37
Speaker 1: Whether it's a few weeks, few months, a year, it
46:40
Speaker 1: won't be a long period of time, and it will
46:43
Speaker 1: engulf the entire planet.
46:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever that peace and safety mentality has again, we
46:52
Speaker 2: see it. We see it there, We see it again.
46:55
Speaker 2: In the relatively normal living things are great. But I
47:00
Speaker 2: see in Luke twenty one where Jesus, you know, don't
47:04
Speaker 2: get caught up in debauchery and drunkenness, you know less
47:07
Speaker 2: that day overtake you as a trap. Yes, that's going
47:10
Speaker 2: to come upon again. That uses the language of the
47:12
Speaker 2: whole world, and so it comes as a surprise when
47:16
Speaker 2: you're trapped. That means you weren't aware, that's right. And
47:19
Speaker 2: so this day is a day of trouble, it's a
47:20
Speaker 2: day of the Lord. It's the whole context of really
47:25
Speaker 2: the whole description from that, the first part of the
47:27
Speaker 2: all of that discourse, all the way through. And so
47:29
Speaker 2: here we are, well, I mean, Lee kind of running
47:32
Speaker 2: out of time here, But what would you say if
47:35
Speaker 2: you had to talk about one more? Of course, we
47:38
Speaker 2: want people to get the book to see all the
47:39
Speaker 2: full details. But of the ten, what's one more that
47:43
Speaker 2: you really you really want to end this on.
47:45
Speaker 1: I love the chapter on the types of the rapture.
47:50
Speaker 1: It's probably not the one that's the most powerful argument
47:53
Speaker 1: for a preacher rapture, but it's the one that's the
47:55
Speaker 1: dearest to my heart. You know. We have the typology
47:59
Speaker 1: for end sense of the in chapter six of John
48:04
Speaker 1: with the disciples are out on the rowing in the
48:07
Speaker 1: boat across the sea. The Lord's off in the mountaintop.
48:10
Speaker 1: And this is a picture in my mind of the
48:13
Speaker 1: Lord being up in glory over watching the churches up
48:16
Speaker 1: in heaven. The Church is sailing across the sea of Life,
48:20
Speaker 1: and at the they get out there in the sea
48:23
Speaker 1: and a tremendous storm comes up, and they're terrified and
48:28
Speaker 1: they're losing hope. They're scared, and the Lord appears to
48:31
Speaker 1: them in the middle of the storm, and when they
48:34
Speaker 1: recognize him and receive him, they're immediately at safe harbor
48:38
Speaker 1: where they were going. And to me, this is a
48:40
Speaker 1: picture of the Church at the end of the age.
48:43
Speaker 1: We're going to come into a great storm so that
48:45
Speaker 1: we're going to start worrying and fearing, and in the well,
48:48
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of that storm that just started.
48:51
Speaker 1: We're not going deep into that. It's just the front edge.
48:53
Speaker 1: It's just barely getting cooked up. And the Lord's going
48:57
Speaker 1: to come to us and take us to our safe haven.
48:59
Speaker 2: Ye I mean we have we're seeing hey, as everybody
49:02
Speaker 2: knows right now. I mean, we're seeing socialism in our country.
49:06
Speaker 2: We're seeing Marxism being snuck in and obviously through the
49:09
Speaker 2: universities and education, we're seeing it through the administration. We're
49:13
Speaker 2: seeing censorship now, we're seeing bio medical mandates, we're seeing
49:18
Speaker 2: being stuck in our house. These are all relatively new
49:21
Speaker 2: for Americans, you know, And so we're seeing these things.
49:24
Speaker 2: And we also know that those powers that be Claus
49:28
Speaker 2: Schwab and others, they desire fifteen minute cities, they desire
49:31
Speaker 2: to control. They tell us we're going to own nothing
49:33
Speaker 2: and be happy. All these things are happening right now,
49:36
Speaker 2: which are troubles and trials. And we know that they
49:40
Speaker 2: had their trial run a few years ago talking about
49:44
Speaker 2: monkey box now and blah blah blah. So we are
49:47
Speaker 2: not going to escape the seeing the setting of the stage.
49:52
Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
49:53
Speaker 2: And that's trouble that is going to bring difficulties, no doubt,
49:57
Speaker 2: around the world for everybody and not just Christians.
50:00
Speaker 1: And we might see a lot more than we would
50:02
Speaker 1: ever wish to see.
50:03
Speaker 2: And I actually, in my opinion, I do I think
50:05
Speaker 2: that we're going to see. We're not quite there yet.
50:08
Speaker 2: I don't think as it relates to the stage setting
50:11
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see. I think we'll probably
50:13
Speaker 2: be fully implemented into a cash list system, which that'll
50:16
Speaker 2: be interesting to see how that plays. It'll be easy evangelism,
50:21
Speaker 2: I guess at that time, because we're like, well, we've
50:23
Speaker 2: been talking about this for you know, going back to
50:26
Speaker 2: hal Lindsay in nineteen seventy, and here we are, and
50:29
Speaker 2: that just shows us how much closer we are to
50:32
Speaker 2: what you wrote about here the preacher rapture when the
50:36
Speaker 2: Lord does come. I mean relative relative living. Pete Garcia
50:42
Speaker 2: when he came to me one time when I was
50:44
Speaker 2: talking on the on the All Event discourse, and one
50:47
Speaker 2: of the things I was talking about was like, how
50:50
Speaker 2: much this is relative living, relatively normal living? And he
50:53
Speaker 2: was like Mona Mondo, and so he wrote an article
50:55
Speaker 2: like how much running out of normal, running out of normal.
50:58
Speaker 2: That was so awesome. Yeah, I was like, I said,
51:01
Speaker 2: I agree. That was My whole point is we're running
51:03
Speaker 2: out of normal. And he caught that, and so his
51:07
Speaker 2: article is great people and check it out Rev three
51:08
Speaker 2: ten dot net. But as we watch that we're running
51:12
Speaker 2: out of normal, it just shows us how close we are.
51:16
Speaker 2: I mean, so, somebody I always like to end it.
51:18
Speaker 2: You know, Lee, someone's been listening to this, maybe a
51:20
Speaker 2: friend put them on. They're kind of wondering what in
51:22
Speaker 2: the world these guys talking about? What's the good news?
51:25
Speaker 2: How do they come to know the Lord?
51:26
Speaker 1: Well, the good news is not only can we escape
51:30
Speaker 1: the trials and tribulations of the wrath of God coming
51:33
Speaker 1: upon the world, we can escape eternal punishment. And we
51:36
Speaker 1: don't escape it by becoming religious or turning over a
51:39
Speaker 1: new leaf or joining some positive thinking club. We find
51:45
Speaker 1: it by trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ as the
51:48
Speaker 1: only way of salvation. He is God manifest in flesh,
51:52
Speaker 1: God himself, in the person of the Sun, died on
51:55
Speaker 1: the cross to shed his blood for the whole worlds.
51:59
Speaker 1: Every man that ever lived can be forgiven by trusting
52:02
Speaker 1: in Jesus and He stands forevermore as a high priest
52:05
Speaker 1: at the right hand of the Father, with the blood
52:07
Speaker 1: on the altar, able to save under the uttermost all
52:10
Speaker 1: that come unto him. So it doesn't matter how deep
52:13
Speaker 1: you've fallen into sin, how long you've been in sin,
52:16
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how severe your sin is. Doesn't matter. If
52:19
Speaker 1: you've been a prostitute for twenty years, you've been a
52:21
Speaker 1: drug abuser for twenty years, you've worked for the mafia
52:24
Speaker 1: for twenty years, you've killed twenty people, it does not matter.
52:27
Speaker 1: You put your trust in Jesus Christ. You can be
52:29
Speaker 1: saved in a moment, escape the coming tribulation, and have
52:33
Speaker 1: eternal life in an infinite utopia with an in reward
52:38
Speaker 1: given to you from an infinite God.
52:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. Amen to that. Lee. It's been great. It's always
52:42
Speaker 2: good time. We've had some great to a couple of
52:44
Speaker 2: days of filming here. Thank you everybody for listening. Please again,
52:46
Speaker 2: if you didn't subscribe to us, subscribe to the channel.
52:49
Speaker 2: Also check us out prophecywatchers dot com where you can
52:52
Speaker 2: join us in Branson, Agin. It's going to be a
52:54
Speaker 2: great time, Lee, and thanks for listening, and we will
52:57
Speaker 2: catch you all next time.