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41 - Typhoid Mary · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: welcome or welcome back to Who Did What Now? The
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: history podcast That's not your history class with me your
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: host Kerry Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it has been a week. As per usual, it
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: just seems to continuously be a week.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: So I have some news and stuff I want to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: talk about, but first I want to say thank you,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you to everyone who has been writing
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and reviewing, not only because you're awesome, because you're really
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: fucking sweet and if you're not sweet, you're funny. Sometimes
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: you're both, which I love you. Folks have all been
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: just so fucking lovely. So basically in order to move
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: up the charts and stay in the charts, like downloads
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is part of it, but also is rating and reviewing.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: So if you're writing review.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Of five stars, it just boosts you up the crazy
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts algorithm.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: And when you like.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Write a review, and no matter what you say, it
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what you say. You can literally say anything,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: but the fact that you've said something boosts that. So
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you could just be like I enjoy banana bread, would
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: just still bost it and as such. Quite a lot
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of podcast hosts, you know, they'll say, you know, it
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: isn't for our egos, you know, I'm gonna be honest,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: it is absolutely also for my ego because you see
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: so many amazing, lovely things that it just fills me
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: with joy, especially especially when the days are that little
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: bit tougher or you know, think if I'm in a
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: bit more pain and stuff like that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just they just.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Writing up my date and I am And I'm not
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: going to deny that, Like, you make me so happy,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: not that I be happy if you weren't, you know,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: saying nice things about me, but it just helps, you know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it just really makes me feel good. And the fact
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that you appreciate what I'm doing and that you really
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: enjoy what I'm doing, it makes it. It makes it
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: really really worth it because I can I can hear you,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I can see you. People also DM me on Instagram,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and I haven't responded to anybody in a wee while,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: just because I've been so busy and I don't want
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to give somebody a half hours response because I don't
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: do anything by halves. And speaking of that, apparently I'm
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: not happy unless I am far too busy because I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I just cannot give myself a break. So on top
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: of redecorating a house literally just to make it livable,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: not for any sort of I mean a wee bit
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: of aesthetic. Obviously, if I'm going to live somewhere, I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: want to enjoy it. But so not only is that
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: part of the process. I'm doing a few events. There's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: a few things in the works that's coming up. I'm
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: also curating social media for an international arts festival.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: And I decided, on.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Top of all of this, along with my job, my
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: eye employment, and you know, actually seeing my children and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: also managing to see my boyfriend, which is there's just
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a lot going on, I decided to add on top
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: of that, I'm going to write a fucking book. Not
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: a book about fucking. I mean, maybe a wee bit
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: about fucking, but not completely about fucking. So see what
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: happened was, if you follow me on TikTok, you've probably
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: seen me rant in the garden in my pajamas about
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of things. So I was doing some research
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: for something that I was going to talk about on
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the podcast, but now I'm going to put in the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: book instead. This is what sparked it all off, because
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I had a few ideas because a friend of mine,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Mark from the Bearded Badger Storytelling the podcast, he had
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: always said to me, you know, have a couple of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: books in the back of your head, you know, And
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I did. I had some plans, and I had, you know,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: whispers and ideas, and I had a few things planned out.
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  Speaker 1: And then I was doing research and I'm reading this
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  Speaker 1: book about basically wartime. It's a wartime book by a historian,
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  Speaker 1: and I was reading this. The way I see it is,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: if you're going to write a book, the whole purpose
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  Speaker 1: of writing the book is to tell a narrative story.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: If you're writing a nonfiction book, you need a narrative story,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: like you'll see that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Some of them what they'll do is they'll have like
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  Speaker 2: a section in.
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  Speaker 1: The middle for photos or documents things like that. Fine,
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  Speaker 1: even fiction books do that sometimes. I'm fairly certain when
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I was younger, I had a hardback copy of Black
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Beauty and there was just like two sections which was
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: just artwork regarding that people had made about the book.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Black Bearty like and it was just or maybe just
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: like random pain things of horses. I'm not entirely sure now,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: but anyway, my point so I'm reading this book. So basically,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I'm reading this book of espionage and World War Two
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  Speaker 1: in Britain, and page after page it was a copy
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  Speaker 1: and paste effectively of reports and they were like separated
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: with you know, a sentence or two.
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  Speaker 2: And it's like, if I wanted.
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  Speaker 1: To read the reports, I would just go read the reports,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: like I can get them through the Freedom of Information Act.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: It's not difficult, you know. I mean, if you really
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: wanted them there, put them in the back of the book,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you know, something like that. But it really took me
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: out for context. Like I am someone who quite happily,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: you know, scours through like shipping manifests, like I was
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: doing this with my uncle a few weeks ago. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: was literally looking through a shipping manifest from nineteen twelve
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: May nineteen twelve. You know, I go through reports and
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  Speaker 1: documents and really dry materials all the time, which is
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: usually how I then explain things to.
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  Speaker 2: People on like this or TikTok.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I read the shit, you know, But like
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that being in a book was just so weird to me,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: because when you're just shoving in documents over and over again,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and with a couple of sentences, and then this happened,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and then this happened, and this report was
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  Speaker 1: received on such and such a few days.
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  Speaker 2: Later, this report came through, you know, Like, all it
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  Speaker 2: does is show me that you do not know how to.
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  Speaker 1: Convey this information in an hour toive format, like and
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  Speaker 1: if you cannot tell me the story, don't fucking write
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  Speaker 1: a book.
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  Speaker 2: Just don't do it.
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  Speaker 1: And it's yet another pale and stale male historian who,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: instead of you know, just telling the contents of it,
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  Speaker 1: felt they need to just paste it.
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  Speaker 2: I don't.
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  Speaker 1: I know, it's silly to get like I rate about it,
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  Speaker 1: but it really really bothered me because for me reading,
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  Speaker 1: I like to be immersed in it. Like there are
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: ways to show this information. You can index it, you
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  Speaker 1: shove it in the appendices, you can again put those
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  Speaker 1: sort of pictures copies of the documents in the you know,
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  Speaker 1: the center of the thing that people do.
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  Speaker 2: There's probably a.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Proper term for it, but I don't know what it is.
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  Speaker 3: Just do the thing.
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  Speaker 1: And this book just put me on a war path,
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  Speaker 1: like to the point that I just straight up decided,
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  Speaker 1: you know, no more waiting around no more, Dawson. Nah,
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  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna fucking do it, and I'm gonna write
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  Speaker 1: a book.
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  Speaker 2: So that was bad enough. That was bad enough.
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  Speaker 1: But the icon on top of the cake for me,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you see, was the manner in which the woman in
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the story was being portrayed was kind of sexist?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Is it kind of sexist? It was very much sexist.
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  Speaker 1: But I know what you're thinking, you're thinking, quite your
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: jibber jabber in fact me, In fact you, I will.
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  Speaker 2: But first we're gonna get our source on.
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  Speaker 1: We have Typhoid Mary, an urban historical by Anthony Bourdaine,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Typhoid Mary Captive to the Public Health by Judith Waalzer Levitt,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: The Curious Career of Typhoid Mary by George Ace, and
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  Speaker 1: Typhoid Fever a history by Elise Mara and Richard Adler.
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  Speaker 1: And of course we have our favorite history dot com,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Biography dot com, and the Smithsonian dot com. Are you
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: sitting comfortably good? Then they'll begin Typhoid Mary, not her
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: given name, obviously that would be a bit weird. Oh
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: what have you chosen to name your child? Oh?
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  Speaker 2: You know, chicken pox, Tony Salmonellruth.
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  Speaker 1: No, No, typhoid Mary was born Mary Mallin on the
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  Speaker 1: twenty th of September eighteen sixty nine in Cookstown, County
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  Speaker 1: Tyrone in Northern Ireland, although then it would have just
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: been Ireland. There wasn't a partision at the time so Ireland.
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  Speaker 1: So during the eighteen hundred there was like mass immigration
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  Speaker 1: from Ireland to America.
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  Speaker 2: So there was a couple of reasons.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: There was one big one, but there's a couple of
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: them that all sort of play together. There's no home rule,
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  Speaker 1: so Ireland at the time was ruled by Britain, and so.
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  Speaker 2: They have no right to govern themselves.
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  Speaker 1: Everything is by the crown. Everything comes to the ruling
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  Speaker 1: class of Britain. Even the landlords in Ireland were generally
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of British descent and they would have more rights than
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Irish people, so this was like a big issue with that.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: As well comes this religious conflict, so you've got you know,
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  Speaker 1: Catholics versus Protestants. You'll notice that quite a large number
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  Speaker 1: of the people who were immigrating they were Irish Catholics,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: which leads me to the next point, which is people
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  Speaker 1: were fucking poor, especially Catholics. You'd see more money would
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: be in the Protestant areas. I think they even touched
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: on that on the tav Stories Dewy Girls. They're like
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Protestants have more money. Yeah they did, so, so like
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: that was that's just how things were. And then the
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: biggest mother fucking factor for people immigrating in the eighteen
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: hundreds was the famine. So Ireland actually had two famines.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: There's angret to Moore, which is the large hunker, the
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: big hunger, and ungor To Bug which is a little hunger.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: So the Great Famine was between eighteen forty five and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two. It was horrifically devastating, Like there was
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: mass mass immigration during that and it was huge and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the population of Ireland still hasn't recovered from that, Like
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: it just hasn't. So in eighteen seventy nine there was
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: like wee famine and Gorta bug, right, it wasn't as
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: bad obviously as you know, the Great Famine. There's a
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: reason ones you know, big and one small. Also, I'm
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: just gonna throw this in here because I can, because
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it's my podcast and I can say what I fucking want.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: We always talk about potatoes, like we always talk about
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the blight, the potato blight, and we rarely discussed the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: fact that Britain was taking food, grain, all that kind
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: of stuff from from Ireland and using it to feed Britain.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: And we never fucking talk about the chickens. So there
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: was cholera in chickens and this was a massive fucking issue,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: but we never bring up the chickens. It's always like, lady, lady,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: la oh ye Irish.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: In their potatoes. It's like, what about the chickens. You
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: never mentioned the fucking chickens.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm ranting, but anyway, So eighteen seventy
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: nine there's like a smaller famine. So during Mary's lifetime
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: there is a second famine. Mary is from Tyrone, and Tyrone,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: surprisingly enough, isn't exactly the richest of places. So let's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: get back to Mary. So it's eighteen eighty three and
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Mary is fourteen years old. I've had places state that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: she was fifteen, But if she traveled in eighteen eighty
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: three and she was born in eighteen sixty nine, she
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: was fourteen. Motherfuckers, thirteen maybe fourteen, but she definitely wasn't fifteen,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: because that's just math. Okay, it's just sums anyway, So
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Mary's set sail. She leaves Ulster and heads for a
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: new life in the Americas. She probably sailed from Derry
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: because I was looking at a map, right, I was
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: looking at a map. Derry is much closer to Tyrone
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: than Belfast is.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: The boat ride to ELL's.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Island probably would have taken like up to up to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: twelve weeks, so after a three month jaunt, which, let's
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: face it, probably not the most comfortable of sailings. If
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: you ever get a chance to go inside of famine
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: replica famine ship, which I would not suggest you do
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: if you're claustrophobic, because it's very dark and it's very cramped,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and it just kind of gives you an idea of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: what of what the sailing would be like. It's it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: very close quarters. It's it's not pleasant by any means.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: But you know, these are people who used to live
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: on dirt floors in winter, so I mean, you know,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: made of hardier stuff than the most of us.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Probably. Yeah, After three months.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: At sea, she makes it to l Island, gets through processing,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and then goes to New York and New York City
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and stays with her and an uncle for a time
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and fairy while she gets work as a domestic, which
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is you know, very typical of girls and women of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: her age in that era. So she got a job
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: as a domestic, as a maid, and then as it
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: turns out, she's actually she's actually a dap hand.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: In the kitchen. She's a pretty good cook, she.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Has skill and flair, and so she's like, this is it,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: this is the job.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do this.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Also, in addition, furthermore, working in the kitchen and being
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: a cook earned her much more money than if she
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: was just a maid. If you're good at something and
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: it pays you more, of.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Course you're going to do it.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: So, as far as we can tell, Mary was working
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: as a cook for all of these like affluent, these
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: rich New York families between nineteen hundred and nineteen oh seven.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: What exactly she was doing between you know, landing in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: New York City and in the nineteen hundreds, that's seven
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: year stretch. We know she was a domestic servant, but
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: whether or not she was cooking it all through that process,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: we just don't.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Have all the information. It just isn't there.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Now, before I go any further, I should probably explain
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: what typhoid fever is. So, it's this bacterial infection that
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: can spread throughout the body because it affects a bunch
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of organs. It's caused by this bacterium called Salmonella typhe,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: which is related to the salmonella that causes food poison
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: in so typhoid fever itself, it's really fucking contagious, and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the bacteria is passed out of their body.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Generally through their excrement. That's right, you're pooh.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: You can also less common, but you can also come
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: out through your pay too, So it can come out
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: through urine or fecal matter. So if someone consume something,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: whether they're eating food or drinking water that has been
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: contaminated by like a teeny weeny amount of fecal matter
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: or urine, they can become infected with the bacteria and
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: as a result get typhoid fever. So kids are more
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: likely to actually contract typhoid fever because their immune systems
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: are still developing, but children actually have milder symptoms than
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: adults if they get it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Speaking of symptoms, the main symptoms are.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Fever, headache sort of you know, ches and pains, and stuff, fatigue,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: cough and constipation.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Now there are also like other bits to it, like
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you know, you.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Can get a rash, you can feel sick, you can
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: have nausea, stomach pains, and everyone's favorite symptom of any disease, diarrhea.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And if typhoid fever isn't treated, you know, pretty sharpish,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the symptoms can get worse to the point where it
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: can actually kill you. So at the turn of the century,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: in New York City, typhoid fever was sort of an epidemic.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: There were multiple, multiple outbreaks in New York alone, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: it was seen as like a poor people disease because
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it was in areas where you know, there was poverty
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: or lower income, more crowded, less you know, sanitation regulation,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and because you know, antibiotics were developed to treat it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: One in ten cases of typhoid fever would be fatal.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: People would get to the point where they're just delirious
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and then they would die.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: In New York and.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: What nineteen oh six, there were six hundred and thirty
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: nine reported deaths of typhoid That's.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: What was reported.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You know, given you know the area and reporting methods
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: of the time, chances are there's a higher.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Number than that, but that's what we have.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Even though there were outbreaks at the time, none had
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: ever been traced back to like one single person. It
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: was never this one person caused this outbreak. It was
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: always like a number of factors and reasons came into it,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: so like one person was never to blame, was never
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the root cause, especially someone who had zero symptoms themselves.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: And that brings us back to Mary Mallan. So in
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, she gets a job in Mamma Uneck, New York.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I hope he pronounce that correctly practiced, like within two
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: weeks of her being there, the residents develop typhoid fever.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: In nineteen oh one, she gets a job in Manhattan
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and when she's employed there, some members of the family
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: they have fevers in diarrhea, and the laundress she dies.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So after this, Mary she goes and she gets employed
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: by this law in his family and seven out of
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the a people in this household fall grievously ill. After that,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: she lands another cook job with a very rich lawyer
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: in mister Henry Gilsey, and within one fucking week, one week,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the lawn dress I don't know what is it with
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: her In lawn dresses. The laundress gets infected with typhoid,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and out of the seven servants, four of them become ill,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: but no members of the Gilsey's family were actually sick
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: because the family lived in one residence and the staff
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: all had their own their own way house. Gilsey hires
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: an investigator, a doctor Wilson, who does this wee investigation,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and he comes to the conclusion that it was the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: lawn dress that was making everybody sick, that she was
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the root. She was the certain point that made everybody ill.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: But he obviously he cannot prove it. It's just because
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: she was the first one to exhibit symptoms, so obviously
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, it was her, she was the starting point.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: But as soon as this little sort of but basically
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: once the other servants start getting sick, Mary fucks off.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: She heads to Tuxedo Park.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Where she works for George Kessler, and within a fortnite,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: within two weeks, the laundress again again with.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: The lawn dress.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: The laundress gets infected and she ends up being taken
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to Saint Joseph's Regional Medical Center. They're really fucking surprised
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: because this is the first time in so fucking long
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that they've had a case of typhoid again because it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: more affluent. You know, this is an area in Orange County,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: New York, not to be confused with Orange County in California.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: But seriously, what.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Is it with her in the lawn dress? What is
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: she doing with the laundry maid? Why is she in
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: such close physical contact? Is she hand feeding her? Is
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: she like getting her to drink water from her hands?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Is she getting her to suck food off of her fingers?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Oh no, No, that wouldn't make sense, Like what, No,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it would be weird Statistically, it wouldn't make sense.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: For all of the lawn dresses to be lesbians, Like.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to think of, Like why would
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: be such close physical contact? Like why would the lawn
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: dress specifically be the first person to get sick. Why
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: are they consuming you know, the bacteria more than anybody else.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: But moving on and nineteen oh six, in August, Mary
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: gets employed by Charles Henry Warren, a wealthy New York
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: banker who had decided to rent a house an Oyster
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Bay on Long Island for the summer, as is their way,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: because rich people like to get out of the city
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and enjoy themselves.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Aha.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: So Mary comes along and from all twenty seventh to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: September third, six of the eleven people in the family
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: contract typhoid fever. And this was kind of a big deal.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Like there were three doctors in the area at the time,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and they were like, this is really fucking weird. I mean,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the direct quote is that they said it was unusual.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, it's not the point. It was very strange
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: for typhoid to be an Oyster Bay because it was
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: very much it was the poor people's disease. It happened
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: in the slums of New York, it didn't.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Happen in the affluent Oyster Bay area.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: No. So the landlord at this point, he's shitting a
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: fucking brick because he knows damn fine well that he's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: not going to be able to rent out his house
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: if it's got a reputation for having typhoid. So he
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: hires like all these experts, you know, independent of each other,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: just to make sure he's not getting fucked over.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And they test everything.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: So they are chicken water from pipes, taps, fosets, the toilet,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: and quote unquote the cesspool, and every single one of.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: These sources, these water sources, they test negative for typhoid
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and let nineteen oh six, Mary gets employed by Walter
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Bonne in Park Avenue.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: By early nineteen oh seven.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Their maid gets sick, followed by two servants who have
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to then get hospitalized, and then the daughter of the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: household she contracts typhoid fever and she dies. And it
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: was here in the kitchen of this Park Avenue penthouse
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that Mary Mallin was confronted by one George Sober, an
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: investigator who had been hired by the Long Island landlord.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So George was actually a civil engineer by trade, but
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: like over time, he ended up becoming this like sanitation expert,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and he was brought in by the New York State
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: itself to investigate disease outbreaks like this was very much
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: his jam and.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: His boy now.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Starting in the Oyster Bay property and working backwards, George
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: had been looking into these typhoid outbreaks in these prominent
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: prosperous families.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Because they were really weird.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Because normally these sort of outbreaks would happen in crowded,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: unsanitary places and the homes of the wealthy rarely are
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: those you know. And so while he's looking into these cases,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: he discovers a common denominator, an Irish cook with blonde hair,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: blue eyes, and a determined jaw, was at each one
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of the outbreaks when they occurred. Unfortunately, getting a hold
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of her was pretty difficult because she always buggered off,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you know, after the outbreak, and she never left a
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: forwarding address. Luckily for George, though, Mary was still working
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: for the Bones while he was investigating. So he walks
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: into that Park Avenue apartment and he confronts her. He's
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: says that he was and I quote, as diplomatic as possible,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: but he did just walk into a woman's work and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: accused her of spreading a deadly disease and then asked
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: her for samples of urine and fecal matter, at which
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: point she gets really fucking mad and threatens him with
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a carving fork. Now, in some places I've seen this
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: reporter as like a knife, but it was a fork.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: His own report says fork. She tried to fork him.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Now, if some strange man that I didn't know sauntered
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: into my place of employment accused me of making a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: fuck ton of people ill and then wanted toilet samples
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: from me, especially in the early nineteen hundreds.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I do would be get.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: The fuck away from me, your quepywe bastard, No, I
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: told him with a fork. So Georgie boy here, He's like, okay,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: this is obviously the wrong approach. And he then goes
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and compiles this fucking list of everywhere she worked, who
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: got sick, so on and so forth. He then finds
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend and goes over to his place with a
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: doctor to try and convince Mary to you know, give
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: them like stolen your samples, and Mary again is like no,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: at which point George is like, fine, okay, this doesn't
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: getting me anywhere, and he contacts the New York City
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Health Department and he shows the investigators, you know, all
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: of his info and they're like, okay, you definitely have
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: a case here. So they get her arrested as a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: public health threat. So she gets forced into an ambulance
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: by a doctor and five policemen, and in order to
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: restrain Mary, doctor Josephine Baker had to physically sit on her.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Mary ends up getting taken to the Willard Parker Hospital,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: where she was restrained through you know, appropriate methods of
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: not having a doctor sit on her, and she is
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: forced to, you know, give the urine and still samples
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: and over the course of four days, you know, if
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: she wanted to go to the toilet, she could not
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: go unaccompanied.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: There had to be someone with her. And so they,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: you know, they study the samples.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And they discover that she was excreting massive, massive amounts
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: of typhoid bacteria, which then brought them to the conclusion
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: that the main source of infection in her body was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: her gold ladder. And by questioning Mary, they discover a
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: couple of things that she doesn't really wash her hands.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: She rarely washed her hands.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: But at the time this wasn't really unusual because lots
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: of people hadn't quite grasped the concept of germ.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Theory, which we know now was very much wash your.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Hands, whip front to back, et cetera, et cetera. And
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: on top of this, they believe that her main way
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: of spreading you know, typhoid was through peach ice cream,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: because she would make ice cream and chop peaches into
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: it and freeze it. That was like her thing. It
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: was her signature dish, some might say. And while other
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: foods that were prepared, were cooked thoroughly and would sort
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: of get rid of the salmonari typhee bacteria. Ice Cream
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: obviously was not, and as such was the perfect spreader
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: for the bacteria.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And that's always.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Kind of funny to me because ice cream is very
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: much a privileged food. So unless she was like sneaking
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: some to the servants, like would servants.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Be allowed ice cream?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: This is where the lawn dressed thing has me going
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it I'm just saying it's a weird one.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Also.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: In addition, furthermore, because Mary had quite adamantly stated that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: she had never contracted typhoid in her life, the doctors
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: theorized that Mary's mother contracted typhoid while she was pregnant
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: with her, thus making her an asymptomatic carrier.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Granted, we don't know that for sure, but I mean
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: it makes sense. I'm fairly certain.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: In March nineteen oh seven, Mary is shipped off to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: North Brother Island, where she's quarantined and she has to
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: give stool in urine samples three times a week for
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: two whole years, and over the course of those two years,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty out of the one hundred and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: sixty three still sample she gave tested positive and she
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: gets put on like a ton of medications.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: They put her on eurotropin.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Hexam with a linimon, laxatives, rose YaST. I mean, at
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: this point, I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: open it sticks like and Mary complains because she feels like.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: She's being used as a guinea pig.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: They're just chucking a bunch of medicines adder and many
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: of which are just making her feel really fucking ill.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, the yearbrootroping they put her on. It almost
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: destroys her kidneys, and at one point they want to
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: surgically remove her gallbladder. But Mary nobody thought to actually
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: explain to her, you know, what a carrier was, how
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: she could be asymptomatic and still you know, spread the disease.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Instead of you.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Know, trying to explain that in any reasonable way to
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the women, they just force her into quarantine and experiment
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: on her. You know, there were interns and tuberculosis doctors
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and all of those people that would just come up
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and just.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Poke her, fraud her, asked her questions.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: That she had already been asked, and it was all
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: it was a lot for her to deal with, you know.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Then she discovers that she has been nicknamed typhoid Mary,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: which really pisses her off. So when George Sober shows
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: up and is like, I'm going to write a book
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: about this, and I'll give you I'll give you royalty
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: so you could have money, but Mary tells him absolutely
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: fucking not, because you know, she's mad because he, to her,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: in her eyes, he is the very reason she's in there,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that she's locked away, right, And he ends up writing
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: his book anyway, and she gets nothing.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, see.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Not every medical professional though, was super into the fact
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: that she was in a forced quarantine. They felt like
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: it was like an overly strict punishment, that it was just,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: you know, a bit much. Because Mary ends up having
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: a breakdown, which you know, we should not be surprised
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at because it was very much a traumatic experience for her.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So somehow, with the help of a friend whom we
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: do not know the name of, Mary manages to get
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: steel samples like smuggled out and sent out to this
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: independent New York laboratory, which come up as negative for typhoid.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: She then tries to sue the New York Health Department,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court just shuts it down. And there
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: is a theory that the newspaper magnet William Randolph hurst
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that not only did he pay for you know, the test,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: that he got them out, but also that he covered
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the cost of her legal bills.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: By the time nineteen ten comes along.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: There's this new health commissioner who believes that isolation is
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: not appropriate for disease carriers. That we really shouldn't be,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you know, locking them up and hiding them away anymore.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: It's not cool.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: So he basically makes Mary Mallin sign an after David
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: saying that she would no longer work as a cook,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: she would change a profession and she would employ sanitary
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: health and safety practices that would basically reduce the risk
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and avoid her spreading typhoid. Like that's that the delio,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you know, And she agrees signs whatever, and then she
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: is released from quarantine and returns to the mainland. When
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Mary gets out, she manages to get a job as
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a lawn dress she's following the rules. It doesn't pay
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: as well as being a cook does, because she's earning
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: twenty dollars a month instead of fifty dollars a month,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and at some point.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: During this she manages to.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Hurt her arm in some way, like there's a wound
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: and it becomes infected, and because of that, she can't
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: do this job for like six months. So she is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: unemployed for at least six months and thinks, oh, fuck
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: this for a game of soldiers and starts cooking again.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: But obviously the name Mary Mallin, that's that's a big
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: red flag, especially to all of these prosperous New York
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: families who are very much, you know, being super careful.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Now because she's famous or infamous, I should say, because
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: no one wants the info miss disease written typhoid Mary
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: cooking for them.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So instead of working as a cook for.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Families, she ends up working in sort of higher production kitchens.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: So she ends up working.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: In restaurants, hotels, hospitals, spa centers, and basically everywhere she
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: works there are typhoid outbreaks. And she keeps changing jobs,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: like she keeps hobbing, but she's she's clever enough to
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: keep job hobbing, and she uses fakes our names like
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Brown or bresh Off. And at this point George Soper
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: is looking for her again because he knows he knows
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: it's her. So in nineteen fifteen, she's working at the
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Sloane Hospital for Women, which is a maternity hospital in Manhattan,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and she's there for three months and while she's there
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: she contaminates at least twenty five people. This includes you know, patients, doctors,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: nurses and like other staff and stuff, and.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Two people die.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: And while she's there, she's working under you know, the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: non diplome, the fake name Mary Brown. And because there's
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: a typhoid outbreak at his hospital, the head obstetrician calls
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: up George Sobert and is like, please help me, come
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: figure this out. So George comes down, He investigates, he asks.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: So George comes down, he has we look around the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: chats with staff and whatnot, and as it turns out,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a woman matching the description of Mary Mallin was working
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in the hospital, but of course had gone fuck this
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: for a game of soldiers and ballocks off, and so
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: she was gone and George had just missed her. But
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: it didn't take too long to find her because the
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: police marriage to like apprehend her while she was bringing
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: food to a friend on Long Island. So so on
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of March, nineteen fifteen, Mary gets sent
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: back to quarantine on North Brother Island because she went
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: against the affidavit and was working as a cook again
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: even though.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: She promised she wouldn't. That was that was the deal.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: She went against it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: However, whether Mary is a victim or a villain depends
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: on whether she started cooking again because she really couldn't
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: do any other job because she had no other options,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Like that was her only way to survive, because she was.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: On the breadline, she was in poverty. Otherwise, like there's
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: no other option.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Are she always been like fuck this, fuck that, fuck you,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: fuck off and was always going to go cook anyway. Like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: we don't really know too much about Mary during her
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: second quarantine.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Basically there for the rest of her life. That's twenty
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: three years.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: So for the next twenty three years she has this
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: she's given a courage, so she's given this private cottage
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: on North Brother Island, and from nineteen eighteen she's allowed
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to take day trips to the mainland, you know, like
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: she kids to go away for the day, she gets
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: away holiday, so.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: She's not just stuck on the island.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure it counts as quarantine if you're
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: allowed to leave. In nineteen twenty five, doctor Alexandra Plavska,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: she has an internship on North Brother Island and she
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: has this lab in the chapel cool. So yeah, on
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the second floor of this chapel there's a lab. There's
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: a laboratory, and doctor Plavska she offers Mary a job
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: as like a lab tech. So she ends up like
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: washing bottles, taking notes, doing recordings.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You know, it just bits and pieces. Gives her something
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I suppose instead of what other lack of activities that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: happens to be on Quarantine Island. On the twenty fifth
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: of December nineteen thirty two, Christmas morning, this dude is
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: delivering something to Mary and he finds her on the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: floor of her cottage. She's had a stroke. She has
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: taken to the Riverside hospital, where she is confined to
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: for the rest of her life.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: You see.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: The stroke caused half her body to be paralyzed and
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: she never fully recovered from it. So on the eleventh
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: of November nineteen thirty eight, it's sixty nine years old.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Mary Mallin passes away from pneumonia. A grand total of
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: nine people attend her funeral, her body is cremated and
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: her ashes are buried in Saint Raymond's cemetery in the Bronx. Right. Okay,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: so there are two conflicting reports about an autopsy. So
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: there are some that say, you know, there was an
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: autopsy and they found evidence of live typhoid bacteria in
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the gallstones in the gallbladder. There's another claim saying that
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you know, there was never an autopsy. This was all
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: made up as a justification for keeping her locked up
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: and quarantined for like twenty five years, you know, and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: thus ends the story of Mary mallin typhoid Mary. So
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: what did we learn today? We learned that you should
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: always wash your fucking hands, no excuses. Hygiene is very important.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: That's it. That's the lesson for the day.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Wash your hands, and if you're sick, stay home, don't
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: infect people. So I was thinking, I was actually thinking
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: about this a wee bit, and it's about the fact
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: that she kept leaving these like positions. And Mary always
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: stated that, you know, she never she wasn't sick, she
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: never had any symptoms.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: It's so she didn't believe she was a carrier and stuff.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: So either she didn't believe that, and she was, you know,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: jumping from pillar to post and leaving jobs and making
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: people sick regardless, and just leaving before she got caught
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: or she was working places and so the other servants
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: get sick and went, fuck this, I'm not getting and sick,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: and basically left before she thought she was going to
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: catch it. And if she'd done this a bunch of times,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: you know, this was her method of survival. But anyway,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: if you like, feel free to rate and review five stars.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: If you want to support me in other ways, there
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: is a GoFundMe for a new laptop so I can
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: get this audio better. There's also a Patreon which I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: need to do some more stuff for, but again that's
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a process. And of course the tip jar commonly known
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: as papal if you want to do anything there. All
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the links are in the description down below, And if
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you want to support me, I am on all of
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the social media's, or maybe not all of them, a.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Few of them.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: A good view on TikTok, Facebook and Instagram it is
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: hooded what now pod and on Twitter it is hooded
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: what now pd because there were not enough characters. There's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: also a website which I'm working on. It's it's live,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: but it's there and that is and that is hoodied
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: whatnowpod dot com And of course.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: It is recommendation time.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: So for reading, I am going to recommend my friend
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Mel's book Glasshouses.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: By Melanie Murphy out May fifth. Go get yourself a
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: copy now, abs fucking litly and she is an absolute delight,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: by the way.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: For watching, I'm going to tell you to go watch
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The Gilded Age.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: It is a feast for the eyes.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I mean it's good too, but like esthetically, it's very engaging.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: And for listening, I am going to recommend.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: The Queen's podcast. Go check out Kerrie and Nathan. They
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: are awesome. They also do history stuff and they swear
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: probably the same, if not more than me. Because there's
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: two of them, there's you'll be more swearers per person,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: right Anyhow, with that, I am going to bid you
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: with you and I will chat to you next time.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Adios or revoir of where is It? My friends, a
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: bye bye