Latest / I Do, Part 2 / Why All The Hate For Zach? Labels Of Male Supremacy Fuel Parasocial Behavior From ‘Love Island’ Fans

Transcript

Why All The Hate For Zach? Labels Of Male Supremacy Fuel Parasocial Behavior From ‘Love Island’ Fans · I Do, Part 2

0:02
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks. It is Wednesday, July fifteenth, and the
0:05
Speaker 1: season finale I Love Island was on Sunday. Some Islanders
0:10
Speaker 1: seem like they'd like to go back to Fiji now
0:13
Speaker 1: because they are just realizing just how ugly the conversation
0:18
Speaker 1: about them had gotten. And with that, welcome to this
0:21
Speaker 1: episode of Amy and TJ Roabes. I really did not
0:24
Speaker 1: know everybody Zach is getting all this heat. I was
0:27
Speaker 1: really I didn't understand. Why can you tell me, please,
0:30
Speaker 1: why he's getting most of the hate.
0:33
Speaker 2: Yes, this is actually shocking. I wasn't expecting this either,
0:37
Speaker 2: But apparently so many people can't stand Zach and the
0:43
Speaker 2: reasons that have been given surround this whole situationship thing.
0:49
Speaker 2: They're angry that he wouldn't fully commit to Cada. They're
0:53
Speaker 2: angry that he wouldn't take the step to boyfriend girlfriend,
0:58
Speaker 2: and they felt like he put her in an awful
1:01
Speaker 2: position in front of America, and so they're angry at him.
1:05
Speaker 2: Some people have also criticized all of the love and
1:08
Speaker 2: romance he showed Bryce that he didn't extend to Cata. Okay,
1:12
Speaker 2: so for that reason they have collectively decided to destroy him.
1:16
Speaker 1: Sweetheart, I have done the same thing. I felt some
1:18
Speaker 1: of the same things. I thought the relations situationship thing
1:21
Speaker 1: was ridiculous. He and Bryce doing their thing. Come on, dude,
1:24
Speaker 1: I understand. Can you help me understand though? How it
1:29
Speaker 1: goes from Yes, I had those same observations. Yes, I
1:32
Speaker 1: in this house, sitting on the couch, was critical of
1:34
Speaker 1: some stuff Zach was doing. How though, do his missteps
1:38
Speaker 1: on a reality show that we're all watching now turn
1:41
Speaker 1: it groupes what's being described as something something much more
1:45
Speaker 1: than just him getting a little heat or people poking
1:48
Speaker 1: fun at him.
1:49
Speaker 2: That's right, and look for the record. His TikTok account
1:52
Speaker 2: was banned for much of the day yesterday because a
1:56
Speaker 2: group of we believe it's young women who have parasocial
2:01
Speaker 2: tendencies where they actually feel some significant connection to him
2:07
Speaker 2: to cata to the show to the point where they
2:09
Speaker 2: were willing to. There's a whole Facebook page apparently dedicated
2:14
Speaker 2: to reporting Zach's TikTok account to get him kicked off
2:19
Speaker 2: the social media platform, and it worked for a large
2:23
Speaker 2: period of time.
2:24
Speaker 1: False styles correct.
2:26
Speaker 2: Oh my god, they banned. They banded together using social
2:32
Speaker 2: media to tell everybody, Hey, go report Zach's TikTok account
2:37
Speaker 2: what that You can just say, whatever it is, we're
2:40
Speaker 2: just gonna get here, you're gonna report bad behavior, and
2:43
Speaker 2: then you get someone banned. And that's what they did.
2:46
Speaker 1: They just want to get him, Yes, yes.
2:48
Speaker 2: They want him to feel pain.
2:49
Speaker 1: What's that thing that people do when like somebody is
2:53
Speaker 1: called out or canceled publicly for something they do, They'll
2:55
Speaker 1: go to their company site and give them like one
2:59
Speaker 1: star ratings and they get all these things. They try
3:01
Speaker 1: to give them bad rights.
3:02
Speaker 2: That happened to gaul too. His business the coffee shop
3:05
Speaker 2: got like completely and totally terrorized in critic reviews. They
3:11
Speaker 2: basically made him gave him one star, zero star, and
3:14
Speaker 2: just started making his coffee shop seem like the worst
3:17
Speaker 2: place on the planet because they didn't like how he
3:19
Speaker 2: treated Jen.
3:21
Speaker 1: Is there anything that any I saw a bunch of
3:23
Speaker 1: bad behavior on that show? Is there anything anybody on
3:26
Speaker 1: that show did that justifies what's happening to them now?
3:31
Speaker 1: Absolutely not as bad a behavior as people displayed, and
3:35
Speaker 1: treating people poorly and not being good stewards of people's emotions,
3:39
Speaker 1: awful behavior. We saw this, but these aren't awful people.
3:43
Speaker 1: These aren't the and we're destroying them. We are attempts
3:47
Speaker 1: are being made to destroy these people.
3:49
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, correct, And so one of the big headlines
3:51
Speaker 2: is that Trinity, the winner of Love Island, went online
3:55
Speaker 2: to defend Zach. Now. Look she's amassed two million follows
4:00
Speaker 2: on Instagram now, and look a lot of the Islanders
4:03
Speaker 2: are above half a million followers where they had like,
4:06
Speaker 2: you know, three four thousand before they got on the show.
4:08
Speaker 2: So now they do have significant platform.
4:11
Speaker 1: She's the most popular.
4:12
Speaker 2: She comeing out by far the most popular.
4:15
Speaker 1: That's why this is meaningful. She used some cloud and
4:17
Speaker 1: some capital to defend him. That was a big deal.
4:19
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that was a big deal. She put this
4:22
Speaker 2: on her stories yesterday when word came that his TikTok
4:26
Speaker 2: account had been banned, she wrote this, coming out the
4:29
Speaker 2: villa one, I want to say I'm very blessed and
4:32
Speaker 2: appreciative of the love and support everyone has given me.
4:35
Speaker 2: With that being said, I want to say the hate
4:37
Speaker 2: and ignorant comment some of you guys are doing regarding
4:40
Speaker 2: Zach is absolutely not okay and needs to stop. It's
4:44
Speaker 2: very disheartening, and we are people just like everyone else.
4:48
Speaker 2: We genuinely have love for each other inside and out
4:51
Speaker 2: of the villa, and he's one of the most amazing
4:53
Speaker 2: people I've met, so please have some empathy.
4:57
Speaker 1: Good on her for doing that, and then she probably understood.
5:00
Speaker 1: She just got all this capital built up and she's
5:03
Speaker 1: expending some of it on him. I don't know. I
5:06
Speaker 1: did see some comments where people like, all right, you
5:08
Speaker 1: my girl, so I'll listen, like they were begrudgingly almost
5:11
Speaker 1: following because she said do so I'm okay with I
5:13
Speaker 1: just don't know. Why are we trying to destroy a
5:15
Speaker 1: guy He didn't murder somebody.
5:18
Speaker 2: And that is exactly what some people are writing now
5:20
Speaker 2: in defense of him. But you had Kada, Melanie and
5:23
Speaker 2: Anaia all repost Trinity's story, which is pretty cool. And
5:28
Speaker 2: Zach's own brother, Charlie, who was on season seven of
5:32
Speaker 2: Love Island us.
5:32
Speaker 1: I, made appearance on this one.
5:34
Speaker 2: He made an appearance, but he actually put this out
5:36
Speaker 2: and he is suggesting that he and or Zach are
5:39
Speaker 2: going to come out and say something further. But this
5:42
Speaker 2: was just yesterday he put out there. TikTok has banned
5:45
Speaker 2: Zach's account because everyone is reporting it. What the f
5:48
Speaker 2: is wrong with people? The truth about the false narratives
5:51
Speaker 2: portrayed about his time there will be spoken on suit.
5:55
Speaker 1: What are the false narratives are we talking about? We
5:58
Speaker 1: all watched the show. Need to create a narrative. We
6:01
Speaker 1: saw what happened. We saw some bad behaviors, some stupid behaviors,
6:04
Speaker 1: and loving behaviors, and we saw everything. Yeah, so what
6:07
Speaker 1: is it?
6:08
Speaker 2: I think people are upset about him and Bryce's relationship
6:11
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways.
6:12
Speaker 1: Why exactly to the point, you want to destroy a
6:15
Speaker 1: guy you don't know are and Kate is fine.
6:18
Speaker 2: If Kate's good, we should be good. If she's happy,
6:21
Speaker 2: we should be happy. She isn't saying, look at what
6:24
Speaker 2: a terrible person this is. I'm breaking up with him
6:26
Speaker 2: because he's an asshole. No, they actually put a post
6:30
Speaker 2: up on their stories, both of them, showing a picture
6:33
Speaker 2: of them together saying my rock, my guy, like saying
6:37
Speaker 2: we're together. But that's what they're having to do. They're
6:39
Speaker 2: learning very fast, very quickly. This has got to be
6:42
Speaker 2: incredibly huh overwhelming for these folks who were not household
6:47
Speaker 2: names six weeks ago and are now at the epicenter
6:51
Speaker 2: of public debate. And that is not an easy place
6:54
Speaker 2: to be, especially when you're a young twenty something and
6:58
Speaker 2: you've never experienced the polarization that people can make you
7:02
Speaker 2: feel this public debate.
7:04
Speaker 1: Yes, sty've been a part of that conversation, Robes, this
7:07
Speaker 1: is this is a public flogging, this is a public annihilation.
7:14
Speaker 1: This is a gang mob mentality. Yes, that is why
7:18
Speaker 1: has anyone Robes? I will say, we have said plenty
7:21
Speaker 1: of stuff on our mics here. Yeah, I can't believe
7:23
Speaker 1: Zach did that, Kimbie Casey did that. Can't believe so
7:26
Speaker 1: and so did. We talked about all this stuff. So
7:28
Speaker 1: as far as the conversation goes, I'm I'm all here
7:30
Speaker 1: for it, and I understand why people take issue with
7:33
Speaker 1: some stuff he did and several other people did. Robes,
7:36
Speaker 1: I don't why do we have to have another conversation
7:38
Speaker 1: about the conversation. Why do we have to we have
7:41
Speaker 1: to go back? And I don't know. You said parasocial
7:46
Speaker 1: have Is this a condition like this?
7:49
Speaker 2: And apparently it's contagious and spreading because people want to
7:52
Speaker 2: belong and they want to have a bad guy and
7:54
Speaker 2: a good guy. We've experienced this, we know what it's
7:57
Speaker 2: like people in order to feel safe, to feel like
7:59
Speaker 2: there's some order in the world. They need to place
8:01
Speaker 2: people in certain categories so that they can feel okay
8:04
Speaker 2: about their lives. I really do believe that. And a
8:07
Speaker 2: show like this put sets people off. It triggers people,
8:10
Speaker 2: and they overreact, and they overconnect to things that have
8:13
Speaker 2: nothing to do with them, and they make judgments that
8:15
Speaker 2: they actually don't know anything about.
8:17
Speaker 1: They overjudging. Well, I just don't road this one thing.
8:21
Speaker 1: Put a comment on your story, put a comment up
8:24
Speaker 1: that you didn't like something he did. That's fine to
8:27
Speaker 1: make the effort, Robes to look up, to go do
8:31
Speaker 1: what you need to do, to go, lie to a
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Speaker 1: social media platform about him so you can get him
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Speaker 1: punished in some way. Robes, his social media account is
8:41
Speaker 1: necessary for him to make money. Right now, you are
8:44
Speaker 1: messing with this guy's life because you didn't like how
8:47
Speaker 1: his relationship played out for you.
8:50
Speaker 2: That's the truth. And look, I did find some reasonable
8:53
Speaker 2: Reddit posts that gave me a little sense that, Okay,
8:56
Speaker 2: there are a lot of normal people in the world
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Speaker 2: who are now publicly disparaging this type of parasocial behavior,
9:04
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to read a couple of them
9:05
Speaker 2: because it did make me feel better. A lot of
9:07
Speaker 2: folks going online saying some Love Island fans are absolutely
9:10
Speaker 2: feral and this weird parasocial behavior. Fans to stop fer
9:14
Speaker 2: that's a good word, absolutely ridiculous. Why are we holding
9:17
Speaker 2: reality TV stars more accountable than government officials?
9:20
Speaker 1: That is true.
9:21
Speaker 2: I thought that was such an appropriate response.
9:24
Speaker 1: It wasn't too damn long ago that Graham Plattner still
9:30
Speaker 1: had Democrats supporting him when women were saying they were raped.
9:34
Speaker 2: Yep, okay. Zach's TikTok account got banned because they didn't
9:38
Speaker 2: like that he wouldn't fully commit in his relationship. Another
9:43
Speaker 2: one writes, genuinely, if you mass reported Zach's TikTok, or
9:46
Speaker 2: if you've been sending him hate messages to his social accounts,
9:50
Speaker 2: you need help. This is a TV show. Take a break,
9:54
Speaker 2: put the phone down and go outside, and.
9:56
Speaker 1: You tell somebody that you know what they're going to do.
9:58
Speaker 1: They're probably doubling triple down A Nope, it's not me.
10:00
Speaker 1: Something's wrong with you all. You don't recognize how terrible
10:03
Speaker 1: is act. They probably trip because nobody wants to admit
10:05
Speaker 1: that they might be the problem in this whole conversation.
10:07
Speaker 1: That they're seeing something there that happened to you or
10:11
Speaker 1: from your life or that you have done, and now
10:13
Speaker 1: you're projecting all of it onto somebody else because hey,
10:16
Speaker 1: wasn't me, He's worse.
10:17
Speaker 2: Kim me a fuck exactly. This is I know, I know,
10:20
Speaker 2: I know, but I do love that other people are
10:22
Speaker 2: calling these folks out. Another one writes there is an
10:26
Speaker 2: entire group on Facebook dedicated to mass reporting his and others'
10:30
Speaker 2: accounts and reaching out to people like former managers, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah,
10:36
Speaker 2: like they're going to their former bosses saying terrible things
10:39
Speaker 2: about them, saying like making things up, and they said,
10:42
Speaker 2: this cancel culture really needs to effing stop. I really
10:46
Speaker 2: really love to see one of these people who try
10:48
Speaker 2: to cancel get canceled themselves. It's so easy to stand
10:53
Speaker 2: there and judge other people, but can you even begin
10:59
Speaker 2: to imagine what be like to have false narratives be
11:01
Speaker 2: spread about you to everyone you've ever worked for, anyone
11:04
Speaker 2: you've ever done business with, and to have this out
11:07
Speaker 2: for the world to see. And the last one I
11:09
Speaker 2: wanted to read, I thought this was very very well said.
11:13
Speaker 2: It is freaking out of control. People can't make mistakes
11:16
Speaker 2: anymore without their whole life being wrecked and that really
11:19
Speaker 2: serves nobody big time overreactions, and then it makes it
11:22
Speaker 2: really hard for the person with questionable behavior to learn,
11:25
Speaker 2: to grow and to move on. It's sad and truly,
11:28
Speaker 2: Zach did nothing to warrant all of this shit. People
11:31
Speaker 2: are acting like he killed someone and you said the
11:35
Speaker 2: same thing. I was like, yep, you're gonna have a
11:37
Speaker 2: friend here on Reddit. But I do appreciate that there
11:40
Speaker 2: are voices of reason. The problem is they're being drowned out.
11:43
Speaker 2: They're being drowned out by these other folks who literally
11:48
Speaker 2: have no lives.
11:49
Speaker 1: Weld I had. I mean, throughout the show, we we
11:54
Speaker 1: took issue, we got heated debates. There was never a
11:57
Speaker 1: time that we ever looked at any of those folks
12:00
Speaker 1: and thought they were bad people.
12:01
Speaker 2: No, there were opportunities to recognize some of that same
12:05
Speaker 2: behavior in ourselves and to learn from it. And we
12:09
Speaker 2: saw them do that very thing on movie night. They
12:11
Speaker 2: saw their bad behavior, and I would argue they learned
12:15
Speaker 2: from it. That's the point. That's the cool part of
12:17
Speaker 2: the show. And to take that and use it against
12:19
Speaker 2: these folks as if you've never done anything bad in
12:21
Speaker 2: your life, as if you've never behaved badly. Give me
12:24
Speaker 2: a break. Every single one of us has.
12:29
Speaker 1: This is hard. I didn't know. I thought this story
12:31
Speaker 1: was gonna different.
12:32
Speaker 2: You're getting all he did.
12:33
Speaker 1: I'm a little this It does, Robes because we've been
12:38
Speaker 1: through it and we do Robes, and folks have noticed
12:41
Speaker 1: and followed us for any number of years and hear
12:43
Speaker 1: us how we talk on this podcast. You are hearing
12:45
Speaker 1: people speak who have been through it. Yes, and everybody, Robes.
12:50
Speaker 1: We give space for everybody with their mistakes, no matter
12:54
Speaker 1: what they are. You just leave room for a little grace,
12:58
Speaker 1: that's all. And Robes, you don't have to agree. You
13:01
Speaker 1: could take issue. He could be your least favorite islander
13:04
Speaker 1: of all time. That doesn't mean you try to destroy
13:07
Speaker 1: his life, and that you ask yourself that why thirty
13:12
Speaker 1: episodes this season? Tell me the one he did something
13:15
Speaker 1: so egregious that it was worth you taking the time
13:20
Speaker 1: to find out where he worked and how to send
13:24
Speaker 1: something to TikTok to get him kicked off. You made
13:28
Speaker 1: an effort, Robes. That is mean, That is vicious, That
13:32
Speaker 1: is evil.
13:33
Speaker 2: You need to talk on your motivations. There's something inside
13:36
Speaker 2: of you.
13:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm not even getting on to those people.
13:39
Speaker 1: Something is wrong that you need to examine. Robes. We've
13:44
Speaker 1: something is wrong with you if you do that, and
13:46
Speaker 1: I hope you get it corrected. But please understand, these
13:49
Speaker 1: folks do not deserve this. And Robes is getting to
13:52
Speaker 1: a point as you were starting here, and you know,
13:53
Speaker 1: I've been turned off on the show. This is turned off.
13:57
Speaker 1: You don't want to be a part of a community
13:58
Speaker 1: that does this. And the fandom is a big part
14:01
Speaker 1: of it. It's a good feel. We got ten people
14:03
Speaker 1: on the couch every night we watch. It's a big
14:05
Speaker 1: communal thing. But is this how we're going to treat
14:07
Speaker 1: these people at some point? Will they have a hard
14:09
Speaker 1: time recruiting good people? Because I almost should to do
14:12
Speaker 1: with that.
14:13
Speaker 2: I mean, it is a cautionary tale for a lot
14:16
Speaker 2: of folks who are considering entering into this type of
14:19
Speaker 2: public venue. And if you think you're heated now, babe,
14:23
Speaker 2: after the break, oh it's not just Zach, pretty much
14:26
Speaker 2: all of the men. Maybe yeah, the main the OG's
14:30
Speaker 2: Bryce maybe be the only one who's excluded from this.
14:33
Speaker 2: But a lot of these men are getting publicly scrutinized.
14:36
Speaker 2: And the question is is it fair? Welcome back everyone,
14:49
Speaker 2: to an unexpected Love Island edition. We thought we were
14:53
Speaker 2: done giving Love Island updates Hate Island, but unfortunately, yes,
14:56
Speaker 2: it's becoming Hate Island. We started off talking about all
14:59
Speaker 2: the hate Zach's getting to the point where his TikTok
15:02
Speaker 2: was banned for almost a day because bizarre fans decided
15:08
Speaker 2: to band together and falsely report his accounts to.
15:13
Speaker 1: TikTok, Like, how many people does it take? Do they
15:15
Speaker 1: not check it out? They just, oh, we got enough,
15:17
Speaker 1: we'll just take it down.
15:18
Speaker 2: I get there must be an I don't know if
15:20
Speaker 2: there's an AI component to an algorithm, but for whatever reason,
15:23
Speaker 2: it was eventually reinstated. But you had Trinity, his brother,
15:27
Speaker 2: other Islanders speaking out and speaking loudly in his defense.
15:31
Speaker 2: But there was an article that was just published in
15:33
Speaker 2: Harper's Bizarre, and I brought it to your attention because
15:37
Speaker 2: the question is what did we witness misogyny on display?
15:41
Speaker 2: Here is the title the Love Island Gender Wars. Season
15:45
Speaker 2: eight of the wildly popular show saw a troubling descent
15:48
Speaker 2: into male supremacist behavior and a satisfying rejection of it.
15:52
Speaker 2: It was look, primarily women are watching this show, and
15:56
Speaker 2: now they actually went through Zach Casey sincere specifically to
16:02
Speaker 2: talk about the misogyny that was on full display during
16:06
Speaker 2: the show.
16:07
Speaker 1: Sure sounds like a wonderful read. Robes sounds like a
16:10
Speaker 1: wonderful read. And I get that breakdown. I get why
16:14
Speaker 1: the headline is written in such a way. It's just
16:16
Speaker 1: we go about the conversation and people have their opinions.
16:18
Speaker 1: That's fine. I just just the idea of grace taking
16:23
Speaker 1: the age environment into account and starting with this. None
16:28
Speaker 1: of these are bad people. They're doing some bad things,
16:30
Speaker 1: they makeing some bad mistakes. But when we start labeling
16:33
Speaker 1: Robes misogynists, done, We're done with you. There's no conversation
16:39
Speaker 1: that can be had after that. So I hate when
16:42
Speaker 1: we do this. Robes human being, black man. They are different,
16:50
Speaker 1: they are displaying some things, but we're starting to label
16:54
Speaker 1: them as something. And when you do that, you can't
16:56
Speaker 1: come back from it. Exactly, we're dismissing and throwing away
16:59
Speaker 1: human being because we saw them on a show behave poorly.
17:04
Speaker 2: Yes, and perhaps instead of labeling this as misogyny, because
17:07
Speaker 2: I was reading through what they said, each of those
17:10
Speaker 2: men did that represented misogynistic behavior. But also I think
17:16
Speaker 2: you could actually say it was all insecure behavior, and
17:19
Speaker 2: so yes, we can give it a label, or we
17:21
Speaker 2: can try to understand it and understand that almost every
17:24
Speaker 2: human being goes through some of these emotions. And whether
17:27
Speaker 2: a man does it or a woman does it, I
17:29
Speaker 2: think that these are human behaviors. Like for Zach, they
17:31
Speaker 2: said he withheld affection from Cada when he was annoyed,
17:35
Speaker 2: like refusing kissing or threatening not to cook her breakfast
17:38
Speaker 2: as a form of punishment. It was textbook emotional manipulation. Okay,
17:43
Speaker 2: but hasn't everyone done that at least one point in
17:47
Speaker 2: a relationship, man or woman. Yes, that was bad behavior.
17:50
Speaker 2: Yes I recognize that, and I actually remember some of
17:53
Speaker 2: that specifically, But to immediately label it as misogyny, I
17:57
Speaker 2: think is dangerous.
18:01
Speaker 1: Robes. It was a fleeting, quick moment, It was in.
18:03
Speaker 2: Security, it was it was you know what, it was childlike,
18:06
Speaker 2: it was, it was yeah, and okay, it's emotionally immature.
18:11
Speaker 1: What do we call it? And I guess we're only
18:14
Speaker 1: seeing a man do it. And I guess this writer
18:16
Speaker 1: is not suggesting this is only men who do this.
18:18
Speaker 1: He's just pointing out something and he did. But we're
18:20
Speaker 1: taking that and we're applying it and labeling it, and
18:23
Speaker 1: look look at what.
18:23
Speaker 2: Men do, and it gives women the opportunity to say,
18:28
Speaker 2: see what these men are.
18:29
Speaker 1: Like, and it we go into this war. Okay, okay,
18:35
Speaker 1: you help me here. Generally speaking, isn't this something that's
18:38
Speaker 1: talked about in society is something women do withholding sex,
18:43
Speaker 1: cook your own damn food, wash your damn dirty.
18:45
Speaker 2: Dry Absolutely, yep, no, agree, that's what I'm saying. I
18:52
Speaker 2: don't think this is a male This is everyone does this,
18:56
Speaker 2: and it's emotionally immature and it is manipulative, but I
18:59
Speaker 2: don't know that it's necessarily misogynists. Okay, case they say,
19:03
Speaker 2: his constant need to bring up the fact that he
19:05
Speaker 2: wasn't chosen shows his classic victim logic. Then they said,
19:09
Speaker 2: explaining his reasoning for wanting to make Tet his girlfriend,
19:14
Speaker 2: he said, she's literally shown me that she's worthy to
19:17
Speaker 2: be my girl. And then they also said, when he
19:20
Speaker 2: called Anayah a grandma because she wouldn't fol around with him,
19:23
Speaker 2: is that misogyny? All those were all like their their
19:30
Speaker 2: their references or their examples of misogynistic behavior.
19:34
Speaker 1: Okay, well, maybe I need to look up misogyny and
19:35
Speaker 1: I don't realize what the.
19:37
Speaker 2: And then for sincere, they said he spent the finale
19:39
Speaker 2: praising Melanie for being so patient and resilient, and he
19:43
Speaker 2: celebrated her willingness to repeatedly forgive his transgressions. That that
19:47
Speaker 2: was misogyny. So they're calling all of this out. And
19:50
Speaker 2: they said for many of the men, they were all
19:53
Speaker 2: upset about the oh double standard on movie night. They're like,
19:56
Speaker 2: what they didn't get was they were disparaging the women
20:00
Speaker 2: that they were previously coupled up with to justify their
20:03
Speaker 2: exploration and that was where the misogyny was and that's
20:06
Speaker 2: why it was not a double standard. And look, I
20:08
Speaker 2: get that some of this can be talked about, discussed.
20:10
Speaker 2: I just think, as you point out, putting a label
20:13
Speaker 2: on it now demonizes these men, and then I think
20:15
Speaker 2: further creates this undercurrent of yeah, we're gonna show them,
20:20
Speaker 2: we're gonna punish them. And I think that's the problem.
20:22
Speaker 2: There's no effort to understand, there's no effort to learn,
20:25
Speaker 2: there's no effort to say, wow, how can we each
20:29
Speaker 2: help each other be better human beings instead of just
20:33
Speaker 2: making them the bad guys. And that's what these articles do.
20:37
Speaker 2: And that fuels a lot of what I think we're seeing.
20:40
Speaker 2: And that's why I wanted to point out this article.
20:42
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to disparage the article, but I
20:44
Speaker 2: do think the articles like this absolutely justify and validate
20:50
Speaker 2: some of these folks who are going online and trying
20:53
Speaker 2: to harm, trying to do harm because they feel like
20:57
Speaker 2: they need to take these guys down a notch.
21:00
Speaker 1: You gets so much easier to do when you call
21:02
Speaker 1: somebody misogynists.
21:04
Speaker 2: Is calling him Zach exactly.
21:05
Speaker 1: You have, you have a label of a bad thing,
21:07
Speaker 1: a bad person. You can go after that, no problem.
21:10
Speaker 1: I hate I hate the labels I get. And people
21:12
Speaker 1: have their opinions, and hey, look, it's good to have
21:13
Speaker 1: a conversation around this stuff. But what we just we
21:16
Speaker 1: throw people away. We throw them away. And if you
21:20
Speaker 1: don't think is anything redeeming about Sincere or Zach or
21:23
Speaker 1: Corbyn or anybody in there, that's right, you have that
21:25
Speaker 1: right to that opinion. We have got to stop throwing
21:28
Speaker 1: people away. Rodes were given the impression that to any
21:31
Speaker 1: woman that any guy who does any little thing wrong,
21:35
Speaker 1: and these are twenty to twenty five year old guys. Yep, everybody,
21:38
Speaker 1: We're talking about they're immature. I assure you Casey's background
21:44
Speaker 1: in there somewhere, Robes. He hasn't learned at that age
21:49
Speaker 1: how to deal with his own feelings, his own emotions,
21:52
Speaker 1: and how to comfort somebody in theirs.
21:54
Speaker 2: I'm still working on that as a fifty three year old.
21:57
Speaker 1: What about a twenty four year old black man in
22:00
Speaker 1: this country who only understands when he's hurt. You gotta push,
22:04
Speaker 1: you gotta fight back, You gotta be tough. The last
22:07
Speaker 1: thing you do is cry and admit that you're hurt. Robes,
22:10
Speaker 1: there are dynamics here, any human behavior and nature that
22:15
Speaker 1: need a little grace before we just dismiss and throw
22:19
Speaker 1: people away. I hate this. And you remember when Casey
22:22
Speaker 1: was getting all kinds of hell and even people in
22:24
Speaker 1: our house, everybody ever else against him. I said, take
22:27
Speaker 1: a beat. That's Casey too. And he was also the
22:31
Speaker 1: first guy that you're all in love with. He's having
22:33
Speaker 1: a hard time. And if people will hear this, I'm
22:35
Speaker 1: not defending bad male behavior, but I am absolutely in
22:40
Speaker 1: defense of better understanding and grace and Robes not dismissing
22:45
Speaker 1: human beings because they make what you think is a
22:49
Speaker 1: death throw worthy mistake.
22:51
Speaker 2: Yes, and as soon as we have an US versus
22:54
Speaker 2: them and we start talking about gender wars, that does
22:57
Speaker 2: not serve anyone.
23:00
Speaker 1: Is that the articles? Yes, it said gender it did it?
23:03
Speaker 2: Did it said? It said the Love Island gender Wars.
23:06
Speaker 2: I love the title, and so I just look, and
23:09
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to throw that writer or that article
23:11
Speaker 2: under the bus. I just think it does a disservice.
23:13
Speaker 2: Oftentimes we don't realize the impact of what we're putting
23:16
Speaker 2: out there. It. I just think when we label people
23:20
Speaker 2: and we don't, the effort isn't to understand but to demonize.
23:24
Speaker 2: That's never the way to go forward.
23:26
Speaker 1: You read through the whole thing more than I did.
23:27
Speaker 1: What was there any conclusion? Was there some way forward?
23:31
Speaker 1: Was there anything you just said, not just label, but
23:34
Speaker 1: have a conversation? Is there is there a conversation in there?
23:37
Speaker 1: Or is it just an attack?
23:38
Speaker 2: It was pointing out that these men behaved badly and
23:42
Speaker 2: women were calling them out on it. That was pretty
23:45
Speaker 2: much the the crux.
23:47
Speaker 1: Of the article. That part's fine, That part what did
23:49
Speaker 1: you say about Zach one more time baby?
23:51
Speaker 2: Before I got the reason why? It's the troubling descent
23:55
Speaker 2: into male supremacist behavior and the satisfying rejection of it.
24:00
Speaker 2: So it was again satisfying rejection of it. When when
24:02
Speaker 2: these folks, and I say folks, it's probably mostly women
24:05
Speaker 2: who went and got Zach's TikTok band, there was a
24:09
Speaker 2: saddest faction. We got ahind it, we got a gout
24:13
Speaker 2: statist fact. Yes, and so that it feels good, get him,
24:18
Speaker 2: get him back. And I think the article unfortunately fuels
24:21
Speaker 2: that mentality. That was my point. And yes they were
24:24
Speaker 2: calling out Zach for withholding affection from Keda, for refusing
24:28
Speaker 2: to not cook her breakfast or threatening to not cook
24:31
Speaker 2: her breakfast because he didn't like her behavior. That, yeah,
24:34
Speaker 2: that was bad, but we don't have to label it
24:37
Speaker 2: as male supremacist behavior. That takes it to a whole
24:41
Speaker 2: other level.
24:42
Speaker 1: There have been times I swear to God, you and
24:45
Speaker 1: I might not be doing great. You rubbed me the
24:47
Speaker 1: wrong way about something and I come back into the
24:50
Speaker 1: office and I could have gotten you a drink as well,
24:54
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I'm saying, robes people, he reacted as
25:00
Speaker 1: as a human being or as a male misogynist. What
25:03
Speaker 1: does he react as? Why do we need to take
25:06
Speaker 1: a step further and label him as that. What do
25:09
Speaker 1: we call a.
25:09
Speaker 2: Childlike behavior for either gender?
25:11
Speaker 1: Label it for women, for me? Or can women not
25:14
Speaker 1: do it? If a woman is pissed and says no sex,
25:17
Speaker 1: if you hold that a.
25:18
Speaker 2: Passive aggressive is what I would call that?
25:20
Speaker 1: Okay, but not him because he is the male.
25:23
Speaker 2: Right, is that he's just aggressive.
25:25
Speaker 1: But that's the dynamic, is that women are considered a
25:28
Speaker 1: protected group if.
25:29
Speaker 2: You will yes, and we haven't generally historically speaking yes
25:33
Speaker 2: or in depending on what country, and we don't have
25:36
Speaker 2: the power. So therefore, maybe that's a big part of this,
25:39
Speaker 2: is that that dynamic shifts the conversation, but it's still
25:44
Speaker 2: an inappropriate one and hopefully everyone can calm down and understand.
25:49
Speaker 2: As Trinity said, they're people too, so please be respectful.
25:54
Speaker 2: And with that everyone, we hope this is our last
25:56
Speaker 2: Love Island season eight update. Hope it is. And with that,
26:01
Speaker 2: we always appreciate you listening to us. I made me
26:03
Speaker 2: robot alongside DJ Holmes. We'll talk soon. M hm hm
26:11
Speaker 2: hm