Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #056-"Sandwich Bags" with John Hernandez

Transcript

#056-"Sandwich Bags" with John Hernandez · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:01
Speaker 1: Join us for the TMPA and FOP joint conference, dallas, texas, july 26th through July 28th.
0:09
Speaker 1: We hope to see you there.
0:16
Speaker 2: The call comes out for a suicidal subject and about 15 seconds out dispatch updates and said that he shot himself.
0:22
Speaker 2: My experience in the service and all the training that we've done for trauma stuff like that I knew it was a sucking chest wound so you got to seal that.
0:30
Speaker 2: I don't have any materials.
0:30
Speaker 2: My partner shows up and she's got sandwich bags for like evidence collection and I know that's going to work.
0:37
Speaker 1: Welcome back blue grit podcast listeners, voyeurs, watchers I'm your host, Tyler Owen and Clint Mcneer.
0:45
Speaker 1: How you been Good.
0:47
Speaker 3: I bet you I was family.
0:49
Speaker 1: Oh, they're good.
0:49
Speaker 1: They're good.
0:50
Speaker 1: Dan hadn't taken kids this morning, so everybody was kind of crabby, but it's warming up.
0:55
Speaker 1: You know, we had that cold snap, so I want to take you this upfront for you guys During the cold weather, I run in the morning, as you're all you know well aware.
1:03
Speaker 1: I was victimized by a deer couple of weeks ago, and so when I wear earbuds in the wintertime, I wear a toboggan beanie, whatever the hell you guys prefer to call it.
1:14
Speaker 1: And so what happens?
1:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really graphic and honest, because I love you guys more family.
1:20
Speaker 1: I get earwax in my ear and it compacts, and I don't I don't do a really good job of cleaning it all out.
1:25
Speaker 1: So this, this ear is compacted.
1:27
Speaker 1: So if I talk, roll out, you need to slap the hell out of me and just say, hey, tone it down a little bit, okay, and we can handle that, yeah, yeah, so, anyway.
1:34
Speaker 1: So that's what's going on in the old household.
1:36
Speaker 1: I've been screaming, talking really loud to everybody in the house.
1:39
Speaker 1: Other than that, we're good, good, all right, what?
1:42
Speaker 3: about you.
1:43
Speaker 3: We have a lot of folks that aren't in Texas that listen and it was like 21 today's Friday.
1:50
Speaker 3: It was like 21 Wednesday.
1:51
Speaker 3: When I got in the truck yesterday it was 70.
1:53
Speaker 3: So our bipolar weather in Texas for the non-Texans that listen and watch, sometimes we have summer and winter in the same day.
2:02
Speaker 3: Sometimes you turn your heater on in the afternoon and or in the morning and turn your AC on and the best meme I saw.
2:11
Speaker 1: I forgot who it was, but it was a.
2:13
Speaker 1: It says something like hey Dakota, your your weather's down in Texas, drunk and acting up in our yard, come get it before you put his ass in jail.
2:20
Speaker 3: It was pretty funny.
2:21
Speaker 1: So, anyway, so who got up?
2:22
Speaker 1: So who got onto the?
2:24
Speaker 1: We got John Bellini back in the house.
2:26
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the blue grit stage, thank you, thank you, and you, you brought a friend with you.
2:30
Speaker 1: That's got a pretty interesting story that you thought would be a good, a good tale.
2:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is John Hernandez.
2:36
Speaker 4: He's from the Lubbock area and he's an officer out there, or deputy now, and we went to high school together in Christofl and so we've known each other for a long time and he he did some of those pretty heroic and something that a lot of people don't think about when you're under pressure and yeah, it was a good deal, so let's back up a minute Where'd you guys grow up, christofl, so sometimes Tyler's is audibly challenged, see man, that's messed up.
3:02
Speaker 1: Okay, it took me two months to pronounce new brommels.
3:05
Speaker 3: So, and what was ill?
3:05
Speaker 3: At a scosa at a scosa, all right, and spell the city you guys are from.
3:13
Speaker 4: So it's really.
3:13
Speaker 4: It's Christ oval, it's C H R I S T O V A?
3:17
Speaker 4: L.
3:17
Speaker 4: How would you say that?
3:18
Speaker 4: Tyler Christ oval?
3:19
Speaker 4: But it's all one word.
3:23
Speaker 1: Well, it's not.
3:23
Speaker 4: That doesn't sound like no, it's we were talking about that at breakfast this morning.
3:28
Speaker 4: One of his brothers is a up in Alaska and they got pulled over by the state troopers and they one kid's like look man, I'm from a small town in West Texas and you know, christofl.
3:40
Speaker 4: And they asked and one of the troopers popped around and it was somebody else that we went to high school with who's a state trooper.
3:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, because nobody pronounces it's crystal ball or they.
3:51
Speaker 4: They mess it up all the time it's, which of course, I guess when you're from well.
3:55
Speaker 1: I'm glad you pronounced it before you spelled it to me, because then I had kind of had a head start.
3:59
Speaker 1: I had to, I was able to cheat a little bit.
4:02
Speaker 3: Well, it's challenging though, because, like I've always said, um he lotus.
4:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:06
Speaker 3: And apparently that's not correct.
4:07
Speaker 1: It's not from there, uh-oh.
4:09
Speaker 1: How do you pronounce it?
4:11
Speaker 3: Hello, hello to us Hello to us.
4:12
Speaker 3: And I always kind of hello to us.
4:14
Speaker 3: I thought to me it sounded a little bit sexier in my head.
4:18
Speaker 1: I guess, and what it really matches like the region.
4:21
Speaker 4: So, crystal ball, crystal ball crystal ball.
4:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I've always said crystal ball.
4:27
Speaker 1: But go to Bogota Texas.
4:29
Speaker 3: All right, yeah, we're off to a great start on this one.
4:31
Speaker 3: I like this.
4:32
Speaker 3: We've educated everybody.
4:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:35
Speaker 3: Um, so if people didn't catch the last episode, tell folks who you are and why you have how you're on here.
4:41
Speaker 4: So, uh, my name is John Bolini.
4:41
Speaker 4: I'm the region five director.
4:43
Speaker 4: Uh, I've been on the board now for two years and I've been involved at the state level for a while now, and, uh, that's, that's why I'm here.
4:53
Speaker 1: And he has 21.
4:54
Speaker 1: Uh, yes, yes, yes, and he's not.
4:56
Speaker 1: Kevin steps on, I promise.
4:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that that's, still but you've been involved with TNPA for the ones that did not cast the first step.
5:03
Speaker 1: So you've been involved with TNPA for a number of years, Very heavily involved.
5:06
Speaker 1: You were the chairman of the scholarship committee, involved with our conference before you even got on the board.
5:11
Speaker 1: So you've been dedicated to the mission.
5:14
Speaker 4: Um God, how I mean I got on the scholarship committee in 2014.
5:18
Speaker 4: I took it over two or three years later, so I mean since then.
5:22
Speaker 4: So the new golf since he was 11.
5:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, so for those that did not get awarded their scholarships uh, it's John Bolini.
5:28
Speaker 1: He's now on the board, so you can contact him and his email address listed on the website.
5:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but I don't run a scholarship committee anymore.
5:34
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
5:35
Speaker 1: No, you, you.
5:38
Speaker 1: You handed it off to a great woman and she's going to do good things.
5:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so She'll be good to go.
5:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, we'd like to start off with who?
5:43
Speaker 2: the hell, are you John Hernandez?
5:45
Speaker 2: Uh, like John said over there, um where'd you grow?
5:48
Speaker 1: up.
5:48
Speaker 1: What's, what's, what's your jump on that mic big deck.
5:50
Speaker 1: There you go, like that.
5:52
Speaker 3: Yep, okay, don't start with conception, but tell us about, like, where were you born, where where you grew up, what was, was?
5:58
Speaker 3: Uh?
5:59
Speaker 2: I was born in California.
6:00
Speaker 2: Uh boo right.
6:01
Speaker 2: Everybody says that.
6:02
Speaker 3: We're in.
6:03
Speaker 2: California.
6:03
Speaker 2: Um, I was born in Oceanside so my father was a police officer in California.
6:08
Speaker 2: Once he retired we moved to the Texas he's from plain view.
6:11
Speaker 2: So my sister was in the Navy.
6:13
Speaker 2: She married a, uh, navy guy from El Dorado and that's what brought us to the custodial area.
6:18
Speaker 2: So calm down.
6:20
Speaker 3: So your dad?
6:20
Speaker 3: So your dad was from Oceanside too.
6:23
Speaker 3: Right, that's, I can't penalty, yeah.
6:24
Speaker 3: So your dad grows up in West Texas and ends up at LAPD.
6:29
Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
6:30
Speaker 3: Well, that's a culture shock.
6:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, Uh, I guess.
6:33
Speaker 2: I mean he didn't have a problem with it.
6:35
Speaker 2: He joined the Marine Corps, so it's probably what brought him over that area.
6:39
Speaker 3: And your dad had a cool career.
6:40
Speaker 3: Dad was LAPD, was an arc and yeah so what was left, like growing up as a cop kid.
6:49
Speaker 2: At first you don't really realize it, but then you know dad's not around for certain things and it's uh, it's one of those things that you tell yourself you're not going to do it when you grow up, right?
6:57
Speaker 2: Well, here I am.
6:59
Speaker 1: Here we are, so is he still living in California?
7:03
Speaker 2: No, he's in.
7:03
Speaker 2: Uh, san Angelo.
7:04
Speaker 2: Okay, so cool, he's obviously retired.
7:08
Speaker 3: Did you catch flight from your friends as you grew up about?
7:10
Speaker 2: Oh, his dad's a cop, not really no, um, never had anything like that Usually.
7:15
Speaker 2: Uh, in California we moved to Northern California for a little bit so it was like a farming community.
7:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nothing serious.
7:21
Speaker 2: The gang members that are there were not very big, so it's unique.
7:26
Speaker 3: Growing up as a cop's kid, my dad was in homicide at Dallas BD and when I was in coach pitch he worked Tuesday through Saturday and homicide and on Saturdays at coach pitch he was our pitcher and so he would pull up in like a Plymouth fury or some God awful CID car.
7:44
Speaker 3: He would get out, take his sport coat off, roll his sleeves up in coach pitch with his badge and pistol on and his tie on.
7:52
Speaker 3: He would coach pitch my baseball game.
7:55
Speaker 3: That's cool.
7:55
Speaker 3: Sometimes he had to leave in the middle of it and run off the field, but most of the time he would coach.
8:01
Speaker 3: But I'm sure the other team's like what in the hell is going on?
8:04
Speaker 3: It was normal to me.
8:05
Speaker 3: I'm sure about Elsa's weird as hell.
8:07
Speaker 3: It's just normal life to me.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he retired so he was around for quite a bit of the like, the high school experience and stuff like that.
8:15
Speaker 2: So it actually worked out in the long run.
8:17
Speaker 2: It's just initially you don't really see him around.
8:19
Speaker 2: And how old are you?
8:19
Speaker 2: I'm 33.
8:21
Speaker 1: Okay.
8:21
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking like the karate kid came out in 84.
8:24
Speaker 1: So I always kind of envision like California, like the karate kid, but probably not going to be like that when you grow up.
8:29
Speaker 2: It's.
8:29
Speaker 2: Uh, it was a lot different when I was there.
8:30
Speaker 2: It's now.
8:32
Speaker 2: It's kind of you know.
8:34
Speaker 3: So nine years old, 14 years old, did you think, yeah, I'm going to end up being a cop?
8:39
Speaker 2: Not at all.
8:40
Speaker 2: Not at all.
8:41
Speaker 2: I joined the service, um and uh, I ended up telling my wife when I got out whatever you do, don't let me become a cop, I don't want to do it.
8:48
Speaker 2: And uh, things worked out differently, so we'll branch we out, Army, army.
8:52
Speaker 2: Okay, so I went to um Fort Manning, georgia, in the I guess, the winter of 2009, um infantry, and then was stationed in Hawaii.
9:03
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was pretty nice.
9:06
Speaker 1: So if you get someone's got to do it right.
9:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, Um, so you're rocking along in the infantry.
9:12
Speaker 3: As a kid never had a desire to be a cop.
9:15
Speaker 3: What, what moment.
9:18
Speaker 3: And then you got out of the military and didn't immediately go into law enforcement either, Right.
9:22
Speaker 2: No, I did a year in the oil field, um, and that just wasn't very exciting.
9:27
Speaker 2: So I went to a flight school and got my helicopter pause license.
9:30
Speaker 2: So you know, trying different things.
9:34
Speaker 3: About how old are you during the Hilo phase.
9:37
Speaker 2: Uh, 23, 24.
9:39
Speaker 3: Yeah so and then what happened after?
9:43
Speaker 2: Um then, um, so my wife, she works for Texas tech, so I ended up going over there and, um, tried my hand at some college classes.
9:52
Speaker 2: It didn't really feel like I liked it a whole lot, so I joined the police academy.
9:56
Speaker 2: It was just kind of a.
9:57
Speaker 2: I have a buddy that I served with is, who was an officer in the Dallas area.
10:01
Speaker 2: Um, and we're close, so went to his graduation for the academy and kind of talked about it and self paid or you went, you put yourself through VA.
10:10
Speaker 1: So talk about that because we've talked about it before, and so for the veterans and listeners out there that don't that aren't aware of this, talk about that process because it's crucial.
10:18
Speaker 2: So, as long as the the academy is associated with a public university or to your college, they'll pay for your academy.
10:26
Speaker 2: So, um, if it's required, so like uniforms are required, they'll pay for the uniforms.
10:31
Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that the VA has provided for me that I wasn't even aware of until we started doing it.
10:37
Speaker 2: So, yeah, so that's, that's crucial.
10:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll pay for the books, the materials needed.
10:41
Speaker 2: Um, sometimes, if you're relocating, they'll pay for housing.
10:46
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I did not know that yeah.
10:49
Speaker 2: And then you get your stipend every month to go to that academy.
10:52
Speaker 2: So you're essentially getting paid to go Correct.
10:56
Speaker 3: Oh, so you get out of the military.
10:58
Speaker 3: Um, you did some, you did some cool stuff in the military.
11:01
Speaker 3: You get out.
11:02
Speaker 3: You kind of explore some other options and nothing is really tickling your fancy sitting at police academy, was it?
11:10
Speaker 3: Was it seeing Like a paramilitary organization that brought that kind of reeled you in, or was it?
11:18
Speaker 2: I think that's what attracts you to it, right?
11:20
Speaker 2: You know, once you get there it's not really as paramilitary as they preach.
11:25
Speaker 2: For me it's totally different, but you know it's.
11:31
Speaker 2: It's usually Good people that want to do good things, and that's a good thing to be around.
11:35
Speaker 2: It's a good.
11:36
Speaker 2: That's a good way to surround yourself with the atmosphere in the brotherhood is what right?
11:39
Speaker 1: what sparked her right?
11:41
Speaker 3: when I figured it was that or Adrenaline junkie, you were looking for a little bit of all.
11:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah so I don't have an issue going.
11:49
Speaker 2: You know 130 on a pursuit or anything like that.
11:50
Speaker 2: So, and then at the same time you know the banter you guys have over a dinner.
11:55
Speaker 2: It's all worth it, so that's right.
11:58
Speaker 3: So put yourself through the academy where you, sponsored by an agency that you were gonna hook up to or I, was not.
12:05
Speaker 2: Initially I wanted to go to Texas Tech PD Because they have a bike patrol unit and I'm active, so I thought it'd be kind of fun, but Didn't pass their selection process and ended up starting out in Brownfield.
12:18
Speaker 2: It's a small agency about the size of the level MPD department that I was at, so Somewhere outside of Lubbock for non-Texas folks, yeah, be south of Lubbock about 20 minutes, 20, 25 minutes towards post, I guess.
12:32
Speaker 2: More towards the other direction, so more towards like La Mesa okay.
12:41
Speaker 1: What's it like working out there?
12:42
Speaker 1: Because we don't really have a lot of.
12:43
Speaker 1: We've never we've had one guest out of love it, but we don't have a lot of people that have been on.
12:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's it like working out there?
12:49
Speaker 1: I mean cuz I've worked in these taxes.
12:51
Speaker 1: Clint works in the meshplex.
12:53
Speaker 2: It's, it's flat.
12:53
Speaker 2: For sure, that's storms and yeah, dust storms are all over, the winds always high.
12:59
Speaker 2: I mean we always joke when you know 30 mile an hour winds the economics.
13:03
Speaker 1: I mean, is there a huge dope problem or is it just mainly white collar?
13:07
Speaker 2: So it's kind of a bit of both.
13:09
Speaker 2: Right, you have a healthy farming community.
13:10
Speaker 2: Right, usually cotton In those areas, a lot of cotton gins in the small towns, but meth and fat amines a huge problem.
13:17
Speaker 2: Lubbock's a hub, so You're gonna anybody from Albuquerque trying to move it to Dallas.
13:23
Speaker 2: You're gonna stop and love it and then it's gonna go from there to the smaller towns, so anybody that's within an hour of Lubbock.
13:28
Speaker 2: Typically you're gonna have a methamphetamine problem, so okay, and now we're hitting fentanyl.
13:33
Speaker 2: So yeah, exactly, and.
13:34
Speaker 1: I've heard that with the old field influx and now that's kind of, you know, plateaued out, that also contributes to the crime you know increase within those little.
13:43
Speaker 1: I say like it's West Texas towns.
13:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're, and You're gonna get the property thefts because they got to pay for their dope somehow, right, yeah, so that's that's typically what you get in our area is the property theft and then your possession charges and stuff like that.
13:59
Speaker 1: So For those that don't know, it's kind of a joke in East Texas.
14:02
Speaker 1: So East Texas and West Texas as far as the oil fields, very similar.
14:06
Speaker 1: But you guys are flat, have dust, but we would always wait for the oil field To go to ship.
14:12
Speaker 1: And then the guys that wanted boats and jet skis and full-wielters yeah, they would hit the crags list and Facebook groups In West Texas and try to snag them up, because those guys would put them on there.
14:20
Speaker 1: It's just fast as they financed them.
14:22
Speaker 2: But yeah, that for us it's Odessa, that's where you'll get your boat.
14:26
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean nickel on the dollar.
14:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty intense.
14:30
Speaker 4: So you can definitely tell when the will filled the boom and because you can see all these big trucks, fancy Editions and everything to you're like, okay if I had to redo it, I would go back to law school and be a divorce attorney.
14:40
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, back to a desk, I would make a killing yeah.
14:44
Speaker 3: So at some point you guys need to take this East Texas boy and get him involved in a Haboob.
14:51
Speaker 2: Haboob yeah, it's a thing that's so.
14:54
Speaker 2: I learned that in Iraq actually it's a massive dust storm.
14:58
Speaker 1: This isn't a joke.
14:58
Speaker 1: No, it's not a joke.
14:59
Speaker 1: We're not snot putting.
15:00
Speaker 1: No, it's not a snuff.
15:02
Speaker 2: I thought the same thing when I first heard it.
15:03
Speaker 2: I was like whatever dude.
15:04
Speaker 2: And then you see it and it's intense.
15:07
Speaker 1: So this is like the theatrical dust.
15:10
Speaker 2: Yes coming towards you moving across the mummy you know as it's coming through.
15:14
Speaker 2: That really happens.
15:15
Speaker 2: Yes, no shit.
15:17
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
15:17
Speaker 3: Yep Haboob.
15:18
Speaker 1: I'd be scared shitless.
15:19
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what to do.
15:20
Speaker 1: I thought like the end of the world's coming.
15:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, have you seen one?
15:22
Speaker 4: It's probably not as bad as what they have in Lubbock.
15:25
Speaker 4: We do get them in San Angelo a couple hours after they leave, because it comes there when the winds are blowing East and we'll get it from that direction and you can just watch it.
15:34
Speaker 2: It's probably not as dramatic.
15:35
Speaker 2: In San Angelo, you'll start to see the red tent hit the skyline and then it's just hail.
15:39
Speaker 3: No in the next day, you'll have sand in your car.
15:42
Speaker 3: You'll have sand in your crack.
15:43
Speaker 3: You will have sand everywhere.
15:45
Speaker 1: That sounds lovely.
15:46
Speaker 1: Sign me up, haboob.
15:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to get Tiona Haboob.
15:50
Speaker 1: I'll film it for you guys.
15:51
Speaker 1: It's just fun to say yeah, I agree.
15:54
Speaker 4: We'll take a picture for you.
15:55
Speaker 4: Another rabbit hole.
15:56
Speaker 3: All right, so didn't.
15:57
Speaker 3: Didn't hit Texas Tech, hit brownfield.
16:00
Speaker 3: How would you do there?
16:02
Speaker 2: That was very brief.
16:03
Speaker 2: I just, my wife and I just had a baby and the pay was not right.
16:07
Speaker 2: So I took an opportunity to Explore a sheriff's office and at that time I wasn't prepared for that.
16:15
Speaker 2: You know, no backup out in those rural counties.
16:18
Speaker 2: It's, it's tough.
16:19
Speaker 2: So I did eventually end up at Texas Tech for about a year and a half.
16:24
Speaker 3: In for, for folks that are like me and worked in the city, the culture shock I had.
16:29
Speaker 3: We had a deer lease in Rotan, north of Amarillo and West Texas's Sparse, yeah, and I was on a deer lease.
16:40
Speaker 3: It was all garland PD on the deer lease.
16:41
Speaker 3: The game warden eases in one night in the dark and he starts checking us.
16:45
Speaker 3: We see he ends up seeing world World police so he cuts up.
16:50
Speaker 3: We feed him dinner.
16:51
Speaker 3: Well, in garland if I hit my emergency button or say assist, I mean the Calvary's coming, I mean like reigning police quickly.
17:00
Speaker 3: The wagon of ass weapon is coming very, very soon.
17:04
Speaker 3: So I'm talking to this game warden, just talking about the differences in in law enforcement and the culture we're in and I said how far is your backup if we were bad guys and jumped bad on you?
17:14
Speaker 3: Right now he's like hell.
17:15
Speaker 3: I'll tell you exactly, is right there on the hip.
17:18
Speaker 3: He gets on the radio and Called dispatch or called a co-worker.
17:22
Speaker 3: He said my backup's about 25 minutes away.
17:24
Speaker 3: And I'm like dude, my backup was maybe 25 seconds away at any one time.
17:28
Speaker 3: 25 minutes, that's a long Fight, gunfight, fistfight, ass whipping yeah yeah, 25 freaking minutes, and that's not uncommon.
17:39
Speaker 3: In a rural west Texas Sheriff's Department?
17:42
Speaker 2: not at all when I worked at the Sheriff's office in county at first man uh traffic stop with the felony suspect murder warrant.
17:48
Speaker 2: My backup was a state trooper coming from omisa.
17:52
Speaker 2: So I mean he's topped out trying to get there.
17:56
Speaker 2: How long, how long was that before?
17:58
Speaker 2: I think it took him 22 minutes, I think, to get there.
18:00
Speaker 3: Yeah good lord.
18:03
Speaker 1: But that's a great point though, because the general public that sees these social media posts and that sees these videos online.
18:08
Speaker 1: They see a uniform police officer.
18:11
Speaker 1: They have no idea what the region was like, the culture with the communities, like they see you on a separate video of the same Two, two separate videos, same interaction, and one would lead maybe to a deadly force situation because of the of the situational difference 23 minutes of backup versus your two, two to five seconds and that's why it's so important for us to push our message of the law enforcement aspect of them not knowing right, yeah, and so I'm glad you mentioned about how you're doing and so I'm glad you mentioned about how long his backup is, because that's why I feel like it's our job and I think we do a good job of it of pushing that message out there.
18:48
Speaker 1: Kevin lauren says it best is when those situations happen, let the facts come out in the investigations instead of jumping to conclusions.
18:55
Speaker 3: Well, it's the same in great point, because that same is like.
18:57
Speaker 3: I saw that police car speeding.
18:59
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:00
Speaker 3: Well, it may have been because this guy's would by himself with murder is what that with a murder suspect getting taken an ass Whooping, or guy trying to get his gun out of his holster, and his nearest backup is 20 minutes away.
19:10
Speaker 3: So yes, the squad was going fast to try and get over there To help him.
19:15
Speaker 3: And, to your point, let the facts come out before we judge.
19:18
Speaker 3: Absolutely right.
19:19
Speaker 2: And I will say in the area that I'm at, if an incident goes down Um a lot of the times those agencies in the area, they all, they send everybody.
19:26
Speaker 2: So lubbock's gonna show up, you know, brownfield will show up, the great point.
19:31
Speaker 1: We just had kala kala michel with jeffson county sheriff's association on Uh.
19:35
Speaker 1: And again back to clinton's point.
19:36
Speaker 1: He may, he may, go a whole year Without interacting with another agency.
19:40
Speaker 1: And it wasn't because he didn't want to, wasn't because garland pd Doesn't interact with other agencies because they're too good.
19:45
Speaker 1: It was because they simply just did not interact with them because it was their own community, it was their own world and people don't realize.
19:50
Speaker 1: For the listeners that work in metro areas, man, you may be on a call and there might be you, a city officer, county dps, game wardens, there might be a fed, you don't know.
20:02
Speaker 1: But they're all.
20:03
Speaker 1: Y'all are all together working on one channel.
20:05
Speaker 1: And some people like him that that blows his mind that five different agencies are working Of one channel.
20:12
Speaker 3: And if you never trooper game warden or rolled up on my call have been like what the hell is going on.
20:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, last week we had a Vehicle pursuit that he wrecked out and turned into a pursuit, but we had the sheriff's office level amp.
20:25
Speaker 2: He'd he that they initiated the, the stop.
20:27
Speaker 2: Um, we had state troopers.
20:29
Speaker 2: We had ropesville isd.
20:31
Speaker 2: Police chief was out there.
20:32
Speaker 2: Uh, just everybody came.
20:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, sundown had had some officers.
20:36
Speaker 2: It's just, that's just how we operate over there.
20:38
Speaker 3: Yeah that's cool.
20:38
Speaker 3: It's crazy how different the culture can be A couple hours away.
20:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy Because my time I only knew what I knew and in my time I knew that Probably no more than 90 seconds to two minutes I can have a lot of hell praning down on it Never crossed my mind of oh shit, if this goes sideways, it may take 15 minutes for at least one person to be able to come here.
21:04
Speaker 3: I never, I never.
21:05
Speaker 3: Even that was never a consideration.
21:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've experienced both at Texas tech PD.
21:09
Speaker 2: I mean there are cops everywhere You're on a campus, it's not very big, right, um?
21:14
Speaker 2: So that was very quick backup um for anything that actually went down, which you know it's college, so usually it's just a drunk college kid, but um, out in the counties and stuff.
21:23
Speaker 2: You start to realize that.
21:24
Speaker 2: And then I go to level amp PD and it's a little bit bigger Um, I think it's like 15,000 and you know you're just trucking along but you've got the sheriff's office and the PD backups about a minute.
21:36
Speaker 1: How many times have you started your patrol car and trying to hit the, hit the towers with your radio signal, trying to get out digital?
21:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some areas you got to take it out, hold it up.
21:45
Speaker 1: Stand on one way, I mean, but I understand where you're coming from.
21:48
Speaker 1: That's kind of what we had to deal with, that there too.
21:50
Speaker 2: In car.
21:50
Speaker 2: Radios work great, yeah, Uh, portable radios not not so much.
21:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, you start getting on those cotton gins You're not going to get out, so solar flares Maybe so that was an excuse, we were told one time.
22:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, so you transitioned from the sheriff's office, from Texas tech to the SO, and that's where you're at right now Uh.
22:07
Speaker 2: I went to a level amp PD after uh Texas tech.
22:10
Speaker 4: Okay.
22:11
Speaker 2: Um, I was a street cop in a campus environment.
22:13
Speaker 2: It wasn't I got you, wasn't cohesive at all, but uh went to level MPD and that's a great agency.
22:19
Speaker 2: Um, they, they have the right direction.
22:21
Speaker 2: Uh, they've made some changes as far as leadership goes, but everything was great.
22:26
Speaker 2: Um and uh, I had this incident that we're here for.
22:30
Speaker 2: I had just started.
22:31
Speaker 1: I started in August of last year, so this was October of last year, okay, so uh, you want to talk about the day and kind of how it started and how you got this batch of the call, or yeah, uh.
22:40
Speaker 4: So it was a Sunday and you know I'm a Packers fan, so uh uh, you don't know, his wife Okay, I mean, his wife is like die hard, uh.
22:51
Speaker 1: So we're recording this on the 17th, I think, of January and the Alice Cowboys forever.
22:56
Speaker 2: They got stopped.
22:59
Speaker 1: We cannot go that far, uh, but they just lost the Green Bay Packers and they're out for the 2023 season.
23:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, Easy.
23:06
Speaker 4: Does it surprise you?
23:07
Speaker 1: I mean, no, it doesn't, but we'll continue on.
23:09
Speaker 1: So it's a Sunday Packers.
23:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's Rogers last year, so it's.
23:13
Speaker 2: You know, it's a big thing for Packer fans.
23:14
Speaker 2: Uh, two quarterbacks in the last 30 years, that's what we're used to.
23:18
Speaker 2: So it's Sunday and you're on the call.
23:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:21
Speaker 2: You're trying to follow the game a little bit, yeah, um, then a call comes out for a suicidal subject.
23:26
Speaker 2: Okay, uh, he's got a firearm and I was still on.
23:31
Speaker 3: I was a Cowboys fan.
23:34
Speaker 2: I was still on FTO, so I was in my own vehicle, but kind of like a ghost phase thing where they kind of shadow you a little bit, um, and so, as I'm making my way to the call, my mindset is tactical advantage.
23:47
Speaker 2: Right, you're not going to pull up right to the residence in your vehicle, start to unlock the rifle, um, and about 15 seconds out, dispatch updates and said that he shot himself.
23:58
Speaker 2: So a lot of things go through your mind.
24:00
Speaker 2: You're thinking head wound.
24:01
Speaker 2: You know what am I going to do when I get there?
24:02
Speaker 2: Um, a vehicle is blocking him.
24:05
Speaker 2: So I didn't see him right off the bat.
24:07
Speaker 2: But as soon as you exit and round that vehicle, he's laying on the ground.
24:10
Speaker 2: Um, obvious blood everywhere, that kind of thing, and I can tell that he's not breathing.
24:16
Speaker 2: I checked for a pulse.
24:17
Speaker 2: He's got one.
24:17
Speaker 2: So that kind of eliminates some of the things there, right.
24:20
Speaker 2: So the next thing I got to do is figure out you know where he's, where he's wounded at and stuff.
24:24
Speaker 2: And he's got a chest wound.
24:25
Speaker 2: It's a.
24:26
Speaker 2: You can see the, the burn marks around the wound and everything.
24:28
Speaker 2: So it was.
24:29
Speaker 2: It was very close.
24:29
Speaker 2: I think we got a copy of the video and I think he actually touches his chest, um.
24:34
Speaker 2: So at that point, um, from my experience in the service and all the training that we've done for trauma stuff like that, uh, I knew it was a sucking chest wound so you got to seal that Right.
24:44
Speaker 2: So, again, just started.
24:46
Speaker 2: I just got my unit.
24:48
Speaker 2: Don't have a whole lot of stuff, I don't have any materials.
24:51
Speaker 2: Um, my partner shows up and she's got sandwich bags for, like, evidence collection and I know that's going to work.
24:56
Speaker 2: So I tell her to gather sandwich bags and she brings them out and we start to seal that chest wound with it's.
25:04
Speaker 2: It's a modified inclusive dressing for the most part.
25:05
Speaker 2: Um, what you typically want to do is you want to tape off.
25:10
Speaker 2: You know three sides or four sides, however.
25:13
Speaker 2: You're taught there's, there's a ton of ways to to do it.
25:16
Speaker 2: And, uh, once that pressure starts to equalize, it makes it easier for him to breathe.
25:22
Speaker 2: You know he eventually uh starts to breathe on his own, he throws up.
25:26
Speaker 2: We got to clear his airway, uh, and then after that man he's fighting us, trying to.
25:31
Speaker 2: You know it hurts, so he's trying to get us off of them and stuff like that.
25:33
Speaker 2: And they, you know it's just it's all in at that point.
25:36
Speaker 2: So for listeners that may not understand the, the lingo or the term, explain what sucking chest wound or why so?
25:44
Speaker 3: uh, a sucking chest wound is another pathway for air to get into the chest cavity.
25:51
Speaker 2: So, um, it's not a natural way, right?
25:52
Speaker 2: So you're, what's going to do?
25:53
Speaker 2: Is it's going to start to fill that chest cavity and you're in your, you're not breathing correctly, uh, usually you're going to collapse along and those kinds of things, and so when you seal it, um, you can help equalize that, make it a little easier for someone to breathe, but you also are in danger of attention to thorax, uh, which is where there's too much air in the chest cavity.
26:13
Speaker 2: Now, you got to.
26:15
Speaker 2: That's why these chest seals are coming out.
26:16
Speaker 2: They've got their own vent systems.
26:19
Speaker 2: Now, when it gets much pressure, it'll let air out.
26:21
Speaker 2: Um, when you're in a chest cavity, you're going to have to.
26:24
Speaker 2: You know, without that, you have they call it burping you have to open it yourself, close it, and so and it's different, like all the movies.
26:32
Speaker 3: You see, it's all sexy where they go in and get a piece of hose and shoot it in.
26:35
Speaker 3: That's a collapse along, not necessarily the exact same thing or the exact same wound.
26:41
Speaker 2: It's completely separate issue going on and uh, and you can, once you, once you seal it with a chest seal and you start getting to the tension with thoraxes, there's a dump, a bunch of different symptoms to to let you know about.
26:54
Speaker 2: You know, uh, tension in your thorax, you have a tracheal deviation, so it'll start to push to one way, that's the air pushing it over.
27:03
Speaker 2: Once you see that, you know, burp it.
27:05
Speaker 2: Let's, let's equalize the pressure a little bit.
27:07
Speaker 2: There's a lot that goes into it and I'm I barely know much.
27:12
Speaker 3: It's just what I learned in the service and how long is that's a, that's a hasty treatment, but how long, technically, is that?
27:21
Speaker 3: It's not a permanent fix, it's not a longterm fix, but it's basically until you can find some sort of more advanced trauma care.
27:29
Speaker 2: Well, I don't, I don't think I've actually ever looked that up, but there's a lot of uh stories from Afghanistan, iraq, where they've, they've, you know, 18 hours on a mission and this guy's got a chest wound.
27:38
Speaker 2: Can't really get them out right away.
27:40
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
27:40
Speaker 2: Uh, there's a lot of amazing stories out there, but for that situation, uh, arrow care got there an hour uh after the incident, so he was stable for what we could do 15 minutes.
27:56
Speaker 3: So, um, and that's where you learned in Afghanistan.
28:00
Speaker 3: Is that right?
28:00
Speaker 3: I was in Iraq, iraq, okay.
28:03
Speaker 2: So, and that's just the training that that infantry guys go through.
28:05
Speaker 2: It's a lot of bleeding control, uh, trauma care.
28:09
Speaker 2: You know cause we, we can't just call for an ambulance out there.
28:11
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
28:12
Speaker 2: It's just not going to happen.
28:13
Speaker 2: And if you do get an arrow care out there, it's going to be 30 minutes to an hour.
28:18
Speaker 2: Sometimes it could be longer, sometimes you might even have it.
28:21
Speaker 2: Uh, the weather might permit something else.
28:24
Speaker 1: So what was the reaction of the paramedics when I showed up to see, like who the hell is this guy?
28:29
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, uh, on the video, you know, you can kind of tell there's some tension there, cause, uh, you know he shows up and I'm telling him hey, this is what I got.
28:35
Speaker 2: I need a, I need a chest seal, um, and he's like we got gauze on the truck, like that's not going to help.
28:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, but, um, I think, and you know, for the most part, you know, uh, paramedics are really good at what they do and, and you know they were just trying to figure out what was going on, and I think it was a new officer mixed with, uh, experienced paramedic and you know, can't tell him anything, so what?
28:57
Speaker 1: I'm fixing to say is not a shot.
29:00
Speaker 1: No pun intended, uh, or trying to insult the role EMS personnel, but if you don't work in the role areas like you probably have never seen this.
29:12
Speaker 1: You most likely had garland fire, dallas fire, uh, san Angelo probably has their own.
29:17
Speaker 1: Oh, ours can be slow too, though I mean it just depends on it.
29:20
Speaker 1: No, and and what my point was was that in the role areas they contract out, oh, and so some of the standards, uh, are not what they are in other jurisdictions.
29:35
Speaker 1: And so, uh, back to your point about the gauze the appearance, the knowledge, the professionalism that you see in other jurisdictions, across the state majority, the metropolitan areas, is significantly different when you get into the role areas.
29:54
Speaker 1: Uh, and it has a lot to do with the hiring process and the hiring quality of the EMS personnel.
30:02
Speaker 1: Uh, and so I'm I'm assuming, and probably going off a limb, that that's probably an EM.
30:07
Speaker 1: It was a contract at EMS Well no, not, not for leveling Um.
30:10
Speaker 2: They've got their own full-time EMS um.
30:12
Speaker 2: But they're just like you know, country boys like are they part time, volunteer full time.
30:17
Speaker 2: This crew, particular crew, with their full time.
30:19
Speaker 2: Okay, um, and so they were there, but I don't know the extent of their, you know, whatever, okay.
30:26
Speaker 3: They may just assume has done rookie cop.
30:28
Speaker 3: What's he doing Exactly?
30:28
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
30:29
Speaker 3: Your experience Right.
30:31
Speaker 2: And and from my experience with military, you know I knew what I had, I knew what I was looking at and I knew what you know.
30:36
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that, because I know what I'm, I'm looking at that I'm looking at that I'm going to save this guy's life.
30:40
Speaker 2: It's all dependent on his body and how it reacts to it.
30:42
Speaker 2: So, um, we got lucky with that one.
30:45
Speaker 3: So so you guys got him stable and then stood by how long waiting on, waiting on EMS.
30:52
Speaker 2: So I'm not particular on the exact timeline.
30:54
Speaker 2: Um, my sergeant called for arrow care, um, and they got that ball rolling.
30:58
Speaker 2: I'm not paying attention to anything at this point.
31:00
Speaker 2: Um, that's what their job is to do, right?
31:02
Speaker 2: And uh, it was about an hour, I think.
31:06
Speaker 2: Uh, from the time that they called for arrow care, they spun up and they, they made it to the field right next to his house.
31:13
Speaker 2: Um, so for the hour you're just standing by and until EMS, when EMS got got there, we put them on the truck and they were able to do a little bit more uh care, and then at that point I exited the ambulance and started doing, you know, scene processing and witness interviewing and that kind of stuff.
31:31
Speaker 3: So contact, wounded himself, handgun.
31:33
Speaker 3: I'm, I'm, yeah, it was a three 80.
31:35
Speaker 2: It's probably why I say this laugh to survive it.
31:39
Speaker 2: He did Wow, yes, uh, he, he's from what I heard he's doing.
31:44
Speaker 2: He's doing great.
31:44
Speaker 2: Um, he's doing a lot better.
31:46
Speaker 2: He's moved divorce his wife for whatever reason they were fighting for, whatever that was the that was the reason why.
31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I didn't know anything about the guy Apparently.
31:56
Speaker 2: Uh, this is a a weapon thing is a regular thing with him, so I just didn't know him.
32:01
Speaker 2: I've been there for two months.
32:02
Speaker 2: Had you ever responded to that kind of?
32:05
Speaker 1: call before before this one.
32:06
Speaker 1: Uh, in Brownfield we responded to a couple of like stabbings.
32:08
Speaker 1: Uh, nothing to this degree nothing to um to the degree of a chest Like that right Not in law enforcement, no.
32:17
Speaker 2: So we have a way in our profession of beating each other up in a in a nice way.
32:25
Speaker 3: So, as the new rookie coming in and and doing this heroic deal and being squared away and having that knowledge, did you catch flak?
32:32
Speaker 3: For of course, yeah, you know, you got the cause, you'd get in there and they ask you know what's your background?
32:38
Speaker 2: You tell them you know you've always got the people that are like, yeah, whatever, dude, and then an incident like that happens and you really can't say much other than you know hate.
32:45
Speaker 2: So it definitely it creates professional enemies.
32:51
Speaker 2: I guess you could say Right.
32:52
Speaker 2: And then you've got people that are like, let me pick your brain, yeah, and those are the ones that you want to hang out with, because they're willing to learn Yep, Trying to be better.
33:00
Speaker 2: So, and like I said, I don't know everything uh, what happened that?
33:03
Speaker 2: day was just luckily draw.
33:04
Speaker 2: I knew what I was doing.
33:06
Speaker 1: Clint, can you comment on people that that I guess the listeners or viewers that watchers that want to talk about the liability Cause.
33:13
Speaker 1: Sometimes, like even as a young cop, I was hesitant about doing it by getting involved medically.
33:17
Speaker 1: We we have like no live.
33:18
Speaker 1: I mean, if we, if we jump in, it's like you've got to be, you've got to be in the way, if we, if we jump in, it's like you did and something went bad, the civil liability on that there's none, because we're trying to, in good faith, trying to provide medical care.
33:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's really changed over the year and public perception drives a lot of it.
33:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:38
Speaker 3: Because for the most part when I was hired in the early nineties, you show up and Some guys love sick.
33:44
Speaker 3: You're like, hey, I've notified FD, they'll be hearing.
33:47
Speaker 3: Well, they'll be hearing a bit.
33:49
Speaker 3: And with that then a body cameras and cell phones and all of that you got to do something.
33:57
Speaker 3: You have to go up and give care and I used to struggle internally If God pulls a gun on me and I got to shoot him.
34:04
Speaker 3: You want me to go up and try and save his freaking life after he pulled a gun on me.
34:08
Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is in grand juries and court of public opinion Nowadays we've got to go up and give some sort of immediate care, but there's no liability on it because, you know, there's certainly not an expectation that every cop is going to be an EMT or a parametric.
34:24
Speaker 1: Even like a vehicle accident, if we go up there and try to render aid and try to help out.
34:28
Speaker 1: We know we're held to this like a citizen.
34:30
Speaker 1: They're not held to civil civil penalty.
34:32
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you said something about the body cam.
34:34
Speaker 1: You know, when these body cams were initiated and implemented into all police forces or should be everybody was on the other side or one.
34:42
Speaker 1: And we can't wait for all these, all this footage of all these cops doing all this bad shit.
34:46
Speaker 1: Well, the reality is is we're getting good footage of cops doing good stuff Dragon people out of, burning cars and going into ponds, ice cold ponds and getting people out.
34:54
Speaker 1: So I wish, I wish yours would have been captured on body cam.
34:58
Speaker 2: It is.
34:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got a copy of it and I'll have to contact the department and see if they can release it.
35:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be awesome Prior to all this stuff.
35:05
Speaker 2: Maybe you guys can pair a little bit of it with it.
35:07
Speaker 2: But yeah, my camera didn't activate the way it was supposed to.
35:11
Speaker 2: When the lights come on, it's supposed to kick my camera.
35:13
Speaker 2: I got you.
35:13
Speaker 2: So my, my camera didn't activate till about stretch or going into ambulance, but my partner, she got everything that's awesome.
35:22
Speaker 2: As soon as she got there she's got her angle of me and what we're looking at and we're finding exit wounds and you know it's just.
35:32
Speaker 2: It's a good angle for from her video.
35:35
Speaker 3: So so you were deployed, did some time on Iraq and you come home and go through something like that.
35:40
Speaker 3: Did you just go right back to work and rock along?
35:44
Speaker 3: Was there some internal working through what all just went?
35:49
Speaker 2: I think so.
35:50
Speaker 2: I think it's a little different than than the military right.
35:52
Speaker 2: Like you, you don't know these people when you're working the streets and stuff.
35:58
Speaker 2: So it's not.
35:58
Speaker 2: It's not something that you take home.
36:01
Speaker 2: I guess you can say it's like dang, that was a crazy day, but that's it.
36:05
Speaker 2: It's not the same as spending all this time with somebody that you guys are brothers and all this other stuff, and if you know, something goes south.
36:13
Speaker 2: That's a different feeling.
36:15
Speaker 3: Yeah.
36:15
Speaker 2: Right, so I can understand that.
36:17
Speaker 3: Yep, well and you know it's a great point for young officers that are listening is it's you got to have to kind of remove yourself from it?
36:27
Speaker 3: People used to ask well, how'd you work homicide?
36:29
Speaker 3: I'm like as cold as it sounds, at some point I ended up, I guess for self survival, I treated the decedent as a piece of evidence, yeah, and that way I wasn't emotionally attached and I could function and work through it.
36:44
Speaker 3: And I'm sure to non law enforcement it sounds cold, but that was my way of managing your compartmentalizing it as this dead guy is a piece of evidence that I need to try and solve the case and you know it's your way of managing.
36:56
Speaker 3: Hey, I didn't know him, I saved him and he's on down the road and it's way different than my brothers in Iraq and right, right, yeah, and I think I think, uh, we kind of get wrapped up in the whole.
37:08
Speaker 2: You know their people and we get it, but we're people you know, and if we do that every single day, and we're seeing this every single day, what break do we get?
37:17
Speaker 1: Right, right, well, and I think your primary military experience had everything to do with how you dealt with it.
37:21
Speaker 1: Mm, hmm, uh, I think my first and this isn't a poor pity me, but I want to kind of tell the listener that if they, if somebody does does experience something like that and they do have issues dealing with it Distinctly, remember I had I was brought up on a vehicle accident out in the county and it was a Chevrolet HHR and when I showed up the woman was alive and the vehicle was on fire and as I'm putting the fire out, trying to the fire extinguisher, it ran out.
37:45
Speaker 1: So I had to watch this woman burn up to death and I remember dealing with that.
37:49
Speaker 1: And I was young, uh, as we said the last episode, I wasn't exactly the brightest because I didn't deal with, uh, dogs a lot.
37:57
Speaker 1: We discussed that last episode.
37:58
Speaker 1: We'll kind of get into that later on, off off camera.
38:02
Speaker 1: But man, I really it really hurt Like I had to talk to my wife about it and I didn't talk to a counselor, I didn't talk to people at work.
38:07
Speaker 1: I didn't talk to people at work because at that time in law enforcement it wasn't really accepted, as it is now Right, and so, if anything out of this podcast we can talk about, is it, man, if one of your brothers or sisters comes up to you and you guys are 25 and meeting up late at night in the afternoon in a church parking lot, time by side bullshitting, and they come at you and they and they talk about man, that call was fucked up.
38:31
Speaker 1: It was a that's a jacked up call and they're they're they're having a hard time dealing with it.
38:36
Speaker 1: Don't be an asshole and make fun of it Like, listen to them.
38:40
Speaker 3: That's the biggest downfall in our career, absolutely.
38:41
Speaker 3: Is we eat our own?
38:43
Speaker 3: We freaking.
38:45
Speaker 3: Like you said, there was some people that were jealous and and had a lot of hate for what you did.
38:49
Speaker 3: That's just really jealous.
38:50
Speaker 3: Here.
38:50
Speaker 3: It's a small.
38:53
Speaker 3: It's a small minded person that doesn't recognize that what went on.
38:56
Speaker 3: We're the world's worst about eating our own, eating our own and screwing each other.
39:00
Speaker 1: I couldn't talk to him.
39:01
Speaker 1: It might work.
39:02
Speaker 1: Because of that reason I was afraid that that would make fun of me and so forth.
39:05
Speaker 1: But again, this profession has, has done so much in such little time.
39:10
Speaker 1: I think the military one of the things that does the best is mental health, and so we are trying to get there.
39:14
Speaker 1: Uh, hopefully, you know this podcast can shed a lot.
39:17
Speaker 1: Ato does a phenomenal job with theirs and so pushing their messages.
39:20
Speaker 1: So, um, anyway, I think your military background had a lot to do with how you kind of dealt with that that day.
39:25
Speaker 2: I agree, um, and my shift, my particular shift, was really good about making sure I was good afterwards.
39:29
Speaker 2: Awesome, um, so it it really brought us together as a as a good little team.
39:33
Speaker 2: So, um, but I mean, I couldn't have done it without them.
39:37
Speaker 2: You know, if my partner didn't have sandwich bags, you know it's pointless, right?
39:41
Speaker 2: Um, sergeant was there securing the scene, making sure that we're safe, cause there's still a firearm involved, right?
39:47
Speaker 2: So, there's a lot of things that go into it that we don't always think about, and that's what supervisors are for good teams and stuff like that.
39:54
Speaker 3: So so for young man or woman that's just getting out of the Academy 21, 22 years old they can't all go become paramedics and EMTs.
40:03
Speaker 3: From your experience and knowledge and understanding of the application, what would use?
40:09
Speaker 3: Two things what?
40:11
Speaker 3: What type of trainings would you encourage them and what kind of minimum supplies would you say is a must to having a go bag in their, in their car that you would recommend?
40:23
Speaker 2: Well, as far as like, um, uh, trauma stuff, I mean you need, you need, you gotta have tourniquets, right, that's an obvious.
40:31
Speaker 2: You gotta have a chest seals, pressure dressings and then maybe some, uh, some backup Bleeder control, so like if you're going to pack a wound, that kind of stuff.
40:41
Speaker 2: Um, those are the minimums that you need as far as um and those aren't expensive.
40:46
Speaker 3: I mean, you could carry it in a small bag and your troll bag.
40:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.
40:48
Speaker 2: I think, uh, certain websites have them for like 150 for a fully put together kit.
40:54
Speaker 1: Throw it on your, on your backpack, or something Well, besides tourniquets, if these patrol officers will get out and and and and be friendly and go in and meet the medical staff at every hospital and explain what they're trying to do and explain that hey, I'm, I'm the first one on scene at some the hospital directors and executive directors that may be listed in I doubt there are with hospitals, those nurses and ER nurses they will give you and make you a go bag.
41:17
Speaker 2: They did for us, uh and I think small town nurses are great.
41:20
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, man, they are awesome, yep.
41:22
Speaker 3: I've heard law enforcement interacts with nurses sometimes.
41:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
41:27
Speaker 2: The uh, the flight medic that responded to that shooting.
41:30
Speaker 2: She's actually a nurse, a ER nurse at the city that I worked in, and so we actually got to to meet and talk about the incident afterwards.
41:39
Speaker 2: So it was.
41:39
Speaker 2: It was actually a, um, really good experience and she was, you know, she was like, yeah, I didn't have to do much, change the dressings out.
41:46
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
41:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was.
41:47
Speaker 2: It was good to hear that feedback.
41:48
Speaker 3: So yeah, sure.
41:49
Speaker 3: So what kind of minimal like back in the day there was only like CPR training what is there?
41:54
Speaker 3: Any couple of little trainings that you would suggest people?
41:57
Speaker 3: Or online something that people could watch and have some minimal knowledge to help anything you can think of?
42:05
Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot of uh those trainings that are coming out now with T coal and and those kinds of things.
42:12
Speaker 2: And then I know that, like Lubbock County, uh, their SWAT they put on a lot of those trauma care classes.
42:17
Speaker 2: If you can get into those, they teach you how to pack a wound.
42:19
Speaker 2: They usually have an artificial limb and they're pumping liquid through it and you've got to learn how to stop it.
42:24
Speaker 2: Um, applying tourniquets, those trauma care ones, cause we're not going to show up and, you know, perform heart surgery, right, I think.
42:31
Speaker 3: T, I think T, I think T consists too.
42:32
Speaker 3: It's not going to happen.
42:34
Speaker 1: TTP away.
42:35
Speaker 1: Also does a uh care in one uh course.
42:38
Speaker 1: So big shout out to TTP away.
42:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just got to get in there.
42:41
Speaker 2: And if you're an officer, whether you're brand new or experienced and you're not trying to learn something like that, you're wrong.
42:47
Speaker 2: You know.
42:48
Speaker 2: Let's just call it what it is, cause if you, if that was your family right, would you want that officer to have knowledge or not have much?
42:54
Speaker 3: And it's just.
42:55
Speaker 3: It's one of those things you think well, I don't need it.
42:57
Speaker 3: Well, you don't need it till you freaking need it Right, Like you did that day, yeah.
43:00
Speaker 2: And then you, you go around and you see agencies that are either they're too small or they don't have experience and they've got tourniquets still in wrapping.
43:06
Speaker 2: They've got nothing that they should be having, but it looks cool, right, right, we got the cool guy gear.
43:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not going to do anything.
43:14
Speaker 2: Right, you know, you got your tourniquet in the small your back.
43:17
Speaker 2: Okay, get to it when you need it, cause it's not going to work.
43:21
Speaker 2: Right, right, that needs to be upfront, where you can grab it with both hands in the event that your arm is shattered from around or something.
43:29
Speaker 3: Um so, we were talking about it last night Tourniquets.
43:33
Speaker 3: I'm not well, you're going to make fun of me, I'm not that old.
43:36
Speaker 3: When I was in the military, what was in your pocket I was reading Shut up when I was in the military.
43:45
Speaker 3: It was you do not use a tourniquet.
43:48
Speaker 3: That's old and equated Vietnam stuff.
43:51
Speaker 3: You're going to make somebody's arm fall off.
43:53
Speaker 3: You don't use a freaking tourniquet.
43:54
Speaker 3: That wasn't that long ago, yeah, just a couple of years ago.
43:58
Speaker 3: And now we're back to using tourniquets.
44:02
Speaker 3: And really you should have two tourniquets on you for self aid, buddy.
44:07
Speaker 3: Okay, because if you're shot and I'm shot and I'm way low, sick and can't help myself, he needs to get a tourniquet on himself.
44:14
Speaker 3: And then try and help me get one on me, because I can't.
44:17
Speaker 3: And if I don't have one on me, I think tourniquets are incredible and you've got a lot more experience and knowledge in it.
44:25
Speaker 3: And again we were told you don't put it to.
44:28
Speaker 3: No matter what.
44:28
Speaker 3: You're going to kill somebody, you're going to make your arm fall off.
44:31
Speaker 2: And now you said there's eight, 10 hours that somebody will be with a turnip.
44:35
Speaker 2: When I joined the service, that was the answer for everything.
44:37
Speaker 2: If you are slightly leading from the leg, high and tight, you got the flu.
44:40
Speaker 3: Turnicates.
44:41
Speaker 3: And and they just stood my toe Shut up.
44:45
Speaker 2: They figured out during those engagements Iraq and Afghanistan that these soldiers are keeping limbs longer and longer.
44:51
Speaker 2: Just once they clear that danger area, they're able to save the limb.
44:56
Speaker 1: So but you hit on something a while ago the tourniquet and the application of the tourniquet.
45:00
Speaker 1: Cops, for the longest time they don't utilize their belts during training.
45:05
Speaker 1: Let me hit on that back.
45:07
Speaker 1: I went to a training course in California and I got my ass lit up, or we were training at before.
45:13
Speaker 1: When we get shot with ammunition rounds, we would say index, stop, and we would hold up our hands and we were done.
45:17
Speaker 1: I went to this training in California and I'm getting shot up and I'm like holding my hands up like I had been training and I was like hey, what, what are y'all doing as they're continuing to shoot me with AR simulations, which you guys haven't been shot with those?
45:32
Speaker 1: It's like help about 600 feet per second, yeah, and they're screaming at me to put my tourniquet on, and so I kind of snap back into it.
45:40
Speaker 1: As soon as I put my tourniquet on, the guy walks up which was mayor and says not get back in the fight.
45:45
Speaker 1: My point being is that from that point forward, it changed my mentality on how I train.
45:50
Speaker 1: Because you will try, you will fight, like you train, and so for you firearms instructors out there that are listening to this, if you're not implementing tourniquets max or she got to implement mag changes anyway but your whole duty rig for these cops, for your cops, you're missing the mark significantly.
46:08
Speaker 2: So I just want to throw it out there.
46:10
Speaker 2: No, you're right, I think.
46:11
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, you get too many times.
46:13
Speaker 2: You get in these agencies where, where the chief is 1970s policing, you know no outer carriers.
46:18
Speaker 2: Okay, it's stupid.
46:20
Speaker 2: I mean, we're all trying to sit here and survive.
46:24
Speaker 2: You know long-term back issues, but at the same time we're we're applying new equipment but we have nowhere.
46:30
Speaker 2: To put it Right, I'm not a big guy.
46:32
Speaker 3: We've always done it this way.
46:33
Speaker 3: That's the answer for everything.
46:34
Speaker 3: It's an amazing answer, well back in my day, like well back in your day you had a revolver.
46:38
Speaker 2: What's the point for having?
46:40
Speaker 2: you know, put your speed loader away, exactly Right, so it's, it's like to me it doesn't make any sense, right, the army is always trying to improve, uh, trauma care in the field, equipment, you know, uh, all kinds of stuff.
46:51
Speaker 2: And then you want to take your paramilitary right and you want to say your paramilitary and we're trying to adapt to, but you know a lot of these.
46:59
Speaker 2: They're a fray of the word tactical or narcotics, right, it's just.
47:04
Speaker 2: It's just those things that come out and you, you don't have any control over it.
47:07
Speaker 2: You got to deal with it.
47:08
Speaker 2: But uh, there is a need for additional space, right.
47:12
Speaker 2: And then there's a need for proper training and uh, I think we, a lot of agencies, miss that.
47:18
Speaker 2: If you're a rural department and you're not trying to train your guys on, you know, trauma care for self and trauma care for citizens, then I do think you're failing.
47:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
47:28
Speaker 3: Well, we talked about this.
47:29
Speaker 3: I don't know who's the conversation with was yesterday, but if you're not, trying to go.
47:37
Speaker 3: If you're not trying to advance at an agency, as a leader or as an organization, if you're not always trying to advance, then you're going backwards.
47:44
Speaker 3: You're not staying the same, you're going backwards.
47:48
Speaker 3: And I see so often the well.
47:51
Speaker 3: In 77, we were doing it like this.
47:52
Speaker 3: Well, that's good, that was 15 years ago for every agency and it doesn't.
47:57
Speaker 3: You don't have to have a huge um budget.
48:01
Speaker 3: Rural agencies can get out and train and do a whole lot of stuff.
48:05
Speaker 3: There's not an excuse for it.
48:06
Speaker 3: There's no excuse for it.
48:07
Speaker 3: I've been researching.
48:11
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure, um, how it's going to work out, but there's that tax strap.
48:15
Speaker 2: You guys seen that it's like a.
48:17
Speaker 2: It's a retention strap that goes for your holster and maybe the other side right.
48:20
Speaker 2: You just throw it on there and, in the event that you do need it, it's already high and tight and it's a ratchet and it's a tourniquet as well as a retention strap for your whole school.
48:28
Speaker 2: So I kind of a shout out to tax strap.
48:30
Speaker 2: But I've been looking at it because it's already.
48:32
Speaker 2: It's already there and if you need it, you just crank it.
48:35
Speaker 2: You can do it.
48:35
Speaker 3: So it's like the strap on a thyroid gets already around your thigh and you just crank it and you can still engage.
48:41
Speaker 2: You can.
48:41
Speaker 2: You can move and not think about this.
48:43
Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about this.
48:44
Speaker 3: I was just thinking why did not they do that?
48:46
Speaker 1: All the stuff.
48:46
Speaker 1: You could be a sponsor if you contact Right.
48:49
Speaker 2: And so I've been looking into that.
48:50
Speaker 2: Um, and then you, of course, you have the right to have the right agency where they'll let you wear straps right, Cause a lot of places do it's too scary yeah.
48:59
Speaker 2: Exactly, I think for me, if I get out of a vehicle, approach a vehicle on a traffic stop and if I look like I'm ready for a fight, they're not going to want one Right.
49:06
Speaker 2: That's I mean, that's part of your force continuum right Officer presence.
49:10
Speaker 2: That didn't bring votes.
49:12
Speaker 3: So to your point, one of the things that I enjoyed about officer involved shootings was when officers, when the suspect didn't die is.
49:24
Speaker 3: I would ask an officer, hey, and I want to.
49:26
Speaker 3: I'll say specifically about four months earlier, um, he had, he got involved in a, uh, there was an OIS in a neighboring agency and four months before that we had stopped him about the same time of night, um, almost identical circumstances.
49:49
Speaker 3: But he got in a gunfight with the neighboring agency and had the opportunity later to interview him and I said hey, man, you got stopped in Garland like three months prior.
50:00
Speaker 3: Do you have a gun on you?
50:01
Speaker 3: Yep, I said how come you didn't do anything?
50:04
Speaker 3: He said because when I looked in the mirror, that guy looked like, uh, he had a can of ass whipping in his pocket and he was walking up to the car with a can of ass whipping his pocket and I said, okay, well, what made you in the neighboring agency getting the gun fight?
50:19
Speaker 3: He said when the guy got out, he looked like a slob that had slept in his uniform.
50:23
Speaker 3: Uh, had a drink in his hand.
50:26
Speaker 3: And he said this second, he cleared his car.
50:29
Speaker 3: I thought I can freaking, I can whip his ass.
50:32
Speaker 3: And to the point you just said, he made a two second judgment based on, and for all he knew, the Garland officer.
50:39
Speaker 3: He could have whipped his ass or, you know, done whatever, but his initial thought was holy crap, that guy looks sharp squared away and is walking up with a can of ass whipping for me.
50:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, have some self awareness of right and I get it.
50:53
Speaker 2: You know age is going to catch up to you.
50:55
Speaker 2: You know injuries, that kind of stuff.
50:57
Speaker 1: Right.
50:57
Speaker 2: He's sensitive, but, but you have to do what you can to make yourself ready to go home at the end of the night.
51:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, um, and what kind of partner would I be if I couldn't join the fight and protect my partner?
51:08
Speaker 2: Right, it's just not worth it, um.
51:11
Speaker 2: And if you can't do that, you don't want to do that?
51:13
Speaker 2: Well, retire.
51:14
Speaker 2: I guess I don't tell you, go find something else to do, because people are dying on this job and it's a sad truth.
51:20
Speaker 2: But if you're looking at officers getting into shootouts and you're not trying to at least take a advanced pistol course or something, or stay in shape, or stay in shape or work on your work, on your own reloads or how to reload when your dominant hand is damaged in some way, then you're, you're setting yourself up for failure.
51:38
Speaker 3: Yeah.
51:38
Speaker 2: You know, you're just not, you're just not trying to go home, right?
51:42
Speaker 3: So what is your very, very best day you've ever had and what is your worst day You've had?
51:49
Speaker 2: in law enforcement law enforcement life.
51:52
Speaker 2: Man, I would have to say, uh, both of my kids birth right Like it's.
51:57
Speaker 2: Uh, those are, those are awesome.
51:59
Speaker 2: You know, I think, uh, I never wanted to be a father.
52:01
Speaker 2: Um, eventually broke down and it's the best thing that ever happened.
52:06
Speaker 2: What's that?
52:06
Speaker 2: So, it's just that's probably my very, you know, best days, right, um?
52:14
Speaker 2: Those kinds of things are what makes life important, right, um?
52:19
Speaker 2: And so, as far as it stands for me, I can continue to do this job because I have a legacy already, right?
52:24
Speaker 2: It's my two sons, um, and so for me, that's that's important.
52:27
Speaker 2: My very worst day, um, would probably be the death of my grandma.
52:33
Speaker 2: You know, that was, that was hard, so.
52:36
Speaker 3: Kind of the matriarch of your family or something.
52:38
Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
52:38
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, and it was time.
52:39
Speaker 2: You know she was suffering and stuff like that, but it's still sad to see you know, so Understand.
52:45
Speaker 3: So you're 31.
52:46
Speaker 2: 33.
52:46
Speaker 2: 33.
52:47
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.
52:49
Speaker 3: What would your 33 year old self stand in here today?
52:52
Speaker 3: If you looked across and 16 year old you was standing there, what would you say?
52:59
Speaker 2: Um, I would probably say pay attention a little more, right, pay attention to the little things, the people that are around you that won't be there 10 years from now.
53:08
Speaker 2: You know that kind of thing.
53:10
Speaker 2: But, yeah, I think just slow down and enjoy life a little bit.
53:13
Speaker 2: Yep, for me, I made a move from the agency that was involved in the shooting right, or the trauma care, to the county, because I live in the county and if I'm working Christmas or whatever, I can at least swing by and be present, right, don't, don't be selfish.
53:28
Speaker 2: You got kids that are watching you, you know.
53:31
Speaker 2: Be around and try to make the move for your family, right, and just be present.
53:37
Speaker 2: So I think everything else is just not as important as your kids watching you grow up, watching them grow up and that kind of stuff being there for their birthdays and Christmas is, and stuff like that.
53:49
Speaker 3: So, yep, yep Priorities Well.
53:53
Speaker 1: Belini, you got anything.
53:55
Speaker 4: Not, really Not at this point, I think you'll covered most of it.
53:59
Speaker 3: I learned a lot today.
53:59
Speaker 3: So I've always wondered when I get on the Tyler he goes index, index, index, index and I didn't know where that came from.
54:05
Speaker 3: I learned quickly in California.
54:07
Speaker 1: That's exactly what you do.
54:09
Speaker 4: So yeah, we, we.
54:10
Speaker 4: I never learned that one.
54:11
Speaker 4: I don't know Indexes.
54:12
Speaker 4: We also learned in the service.
54:15
Speaker 2: I mean every time you stop.
54:16
Speaker 2: Index, index, index we're going to go and debrief and talk about what you did right, what you did wrong.
54:22
Speaker 2: So be critical of yourself too right.
54:24
Speaker 2: And your and your team, right, If you're, if you'd be honest, right Say hey, dude, you sucked at that reload.
54:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, You're right.
54:33
Speaker 3: But it's a great point that you're going to revert to your training.
54:35
Speaker 3: You reverted your training in Florida years ago.
54:38
Speaker 3: There was FBI shooting.
54:40
Speaker 3: I shoot out Platinum addicts, I think it was in.
54:43
Speaker 3: One of the guys died because in training they would, I think, take their empty mag out or load the bullets on top of the car.
54:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
54:50
Speaker 3: I load the bullets on a table and he was found deceased and was setting his bullets out to begin to reload, because that's how he was trying to do it and no fault of his own.
55:02
Speaker 3: But we revert to what our training is and it's a good point brought up.
55:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
55:07
Speaker 3: I mean, he's a lot to me.
55:10
Speaker 1: Good, my heart is one Good.
55:11
Speaker 1: Well, man, we end each episode with three rapid fire questions Okay, have you studied for him?
55:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you been told about him?
55:19
Speaker 2: No, I have not.
55:21
Speaker 1: Well, any.
55:22
Speaker 4: I didn't tell him.
55:22
Speaker 1: All right, first question Favorite cop car I'm excuse me, lying from a cop movie or favorite cop movie?
55:31
Speaker 2: So favorite cop movie.
55:31
Speaker 2: Yep, I like end of watch.
55:34
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
55:35
Speaker 3: I think that's.
55:35
Speaker 2: I think it's just great.
55:36
Speaker 2: That's a good one, and then, we'll see the question Lying from cop movie.
55:42
Speaker 1: If you can think of one.
55:45
Speaker 3: End of watch has a ton of great.
55:46
Speaker 2: They do, man I can't really think of one.
55:50
Speaker 1: What's your favorite cop?
55:51
Speaker 2: car.
55:51
Speaker 2: I like the explorers and the interceptors.
55:54
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty sweet.
55:54
Speaker 2: That's fine, we can look at that.
55:56
Speaker 1: We can agree.
55:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're good with that.
55:58
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have afford my own personal life, right, but what?
56:01
Speaker 2: I wouldn't drive a Ford.
56:02
Speaker 2: My own personal life, but I'm.
56:03
Speaker 2: We'll move on to the next question.
56:04
Speaker 2: You know why?
56:05
Speaker 2: Because they sponsor the Calibri.
56:06
Speaker 2: Because they sponsor the Cowboys and it's not going to work, man you know it's not going to work.
56:09
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not, I got 29.
56:10
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I got 29 and a half miles of gallon coming up here in my Ford.
56:15
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to say that I'm hoping we can shock the world again and beat the Niners and you know they didn't happen.
56:21
Speaker 3: Shut up Ford, you could be a sponsor Anything's possible with a little bit of love.
56:24
Speaker 1: That's right.
56:25
Speaker 1: That's right.
56:26
Speaker 1: What's your favorite drink of choice?
56:27
Speaker 1: Drink Drink of choice.
56:30
Speaker 2: I like Chilton's they're.
56:31
Speaker 2: They're a local thing for Lubbock.
56:32
Speaker 2: So a little bit of vodka and lemon juice, club soda, but sweet tea man, I think sweet tea is there Exactly, I like it.
56:41
Speaker 1: You got anything else picked up?
56:42
Speaker 1: No, sir.
56:42
Speaker 1: Oh man, this wraps it up.
56:43
Speaker 1: You guys stay safe.
56:47
Speaker 3: That hit, hit, subscribe, ding the bell, follow like, share yeah.
56:54
Speaker 1: Comment down below Yep, yep.
56:56
Speaker 1: Big shout out to Sun's Liberty for being our guest sponsor for this episode.
57:00
Speaker 1: Always show them some love.
57:02
Speaker 1: We'll have their website attached to this episode.
57:04
Speaker 1: Our conference is going to be July 26th to the 28th there at the Dallas Marriott.
57:10
Speaker 3: We'd love to see you guys there, hyatt reunion tower.
57:12
Speaker 3: Sorry oh, hyatt reunion tower with the big ball in Dallas.
57:18
Speaker 1: Let me let me redo that one.
57:19
Speaker 1: Our conference is going to be in Dallas at the Hyatt Regency reunion tower.
57:24
Speaker 1: All right, July 26th to the 28th.
57:27
Speaker 1: We'd love to see you guys there.
57:28
Speaker 1: I may be there, I may not, depends on how my, my actions and behavior up until that point, but man, we would love to see you guys.
57:36
Speaker 1: It's a great, great, great event.
57:38
Speaker 1: Get to network with everybody across Texas.
57:40
Speaker 1: Our board of directors will be there.
57:41
Speaker 1: Well, leni here will be there as well.
57:43
Speaker 1: So you guys, you guys come out.
57:45
Speaker 1: I'll have the.
57:45
Speaker 1: I'll have the information there in the episode I learned last night it's bougie, leni Isn't it.
57:49
Speaker 4: Really.
57:50
Speaker 4: So my dispatcher is calling me Sergeant Bougini, and because I buy them fancy things, they say and it's simply because I manage the budget a little bit differently than the last guys.
58:00
Speaker 1: You're not going to let that down.
58:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
58:02
Speaker 4: I know, I know.
58:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to.
58:03
Speaker 3: I like it yeah, I like it and it is a combined team.
58:06
Speaker 3: Pa FOP conference.
58:08
Speaker 1: That's right.
58:08
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention that.
58:09
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely.
58:10
Speaker 3: So you can come hang out with team PA FOP and Sergeant bougie will be there all week, all weekend, that's right, well, cool, you guys, take care, stay safe, god bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas.
58:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.