Latest / More Than Medicine / MTM- Interview with Joe Wolverton. Birthright Citizenship

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MTM- Interview with Joe Wolverton. Birthright Citizenship · More Than Medicine

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: More than that.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So listen because the doctor is welcome to Morton Medicine.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the Country Doctor's Rusty Dusty Scrapbook.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm honored once again to have Joe Wolverton with me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's a constitutional lawyer, and we're going to discuss today the whole issue of birthright citizenship and a recent Supreme Court decision affecting that.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, Joe Wolverton, welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Help us understand, Joe, this recent decision about birthright citizenship and why was our president involved with that decision to start with?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, basically it comes down to this the president doesn't want and doesn't think it's right for the children born on U.S.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: soil to parents who are unlawfully or temporarily present to be considered citizens at birth.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the Supreme Court on June 20th of this year took up that case in a case, if you all want to look it up, Trump versus Barbara, spelled like the first name Barbara, and a divided court held that they are citizens.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: That children born to parents, whether no matter how they got here and how long they're staying here, if a child is born within the territorial boundaries of the United States, he's a citizen.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, now how did all that get started way back in the beginning?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: What what started Well, way back in the beginning, it started because of slavery, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of slavery, the you know, there was a desire and a and a righteous desire to have uh former slaves be allowed to be counted as citizens.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Which, you know, these these slaves, they, you know, had been in the country many, you know, their whole lives.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: They were born here, their parents were born here, and all of that, right?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: They they, you know, because the the trade, the slave trade had ended much sooner than that.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have the 14th Amendment, and along comes the 14th Amendment, and it basically defines what you know a citizen.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And in the Supreme Court, the the craziest thing, Doc, is on the Supreme Court, they quoted the plain text of the Fourteenth Amendment, and then they read statements from the the legislators who wrote the amendment, and then they chose to ignore all of that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I understood.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they struck down President Trump's executive order that he had signed back in uh a long time ago.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: He signed the executive order which was called Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship, and which said that there's that it decreed that the children of aliens, unlawfully or temporarily present, are not citizens the instant they draw breath.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you got Chief Justice Roberts, who you know, I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel for him, but he said he wrote for the majority, and he said, citizenship then and now was the right to have rights to freely participate in our political community.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: The framers of the 14th Amendment extended that promise to every free-born person in that land in this land, and we keep that promise today.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Unquote.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, factually, that is untrue.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: That is not what they said, it is not the intent of the framers of the 14th Amendment, because they specifically did not want children of parents who owed allegiance to a foreign power to be considered Americans just because they were born inside the to the territory of the United States.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like children of ambassadors.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, children or well, even illegal aliens.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: You come across here and you have a and there's a big, there's uh, you know, a very lucrative market for this, for mules to take pregnant ladies from Mexico, Central America, run them up to the border, because and they'll go straight to an emergency room where, of course, they have to deliver the baby, and suddenly that baby's a a citizen and can apply for any sort of welfare and all of that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And what makes a citizen a citizen?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, Chief Justice Roberts said, if you're born inside the United States, you're a citizen, period.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, only you know, the six to three was the the final vote, but the constitutional part of the opinion, the the sweeping declaration that the constitution compels birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens, only five of the justices voted for that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but we had uh Justice Thomas, Samuel Alito, and Gorsuck, they all said that that is not what was intended by the Fourteenth Amendment, and that it was not what was intended by the framers of the 14th Amendment.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is true.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a principle of uh of um interpreting documents.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: You look to see what was said at the time the amendment was being argued in the Senate.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: What did they say about it?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: What did they understand?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that should that should guide us in our understanding, it should inform our interpretation.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so these judges, Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch, said that no, they never intended that it was, you know, born in America equals American, because if you use the same uh logic, then you've got someone like uh who uh anybody born overseas to an American ambassador would suddenly be a citizen of Germany or or you know Panama or whatever country where, you know, because the United States Army is is based everywhere.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that doesn't make no one would think that made sense.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and and other countries don't allow our military people to suddenly become citizens in their country, just they don't allow well, they don't allow people to come in, and if they do allow them to come in, they don't allow them to be citizens.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something that is working its way through Europe right now because they've got all this immigration, uh Muslim immigration, and finding that whole towns, whole cities are being co-opted and taken over, the government of those cities in England and Germany, uh, France are being taken over by these immigrants.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Illegal and immigrants.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Illegal, yeah, yeah, because they don't, you know, there's a process that you go through here and everywhere.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, anyway, they, you know, Justice uh Roberts, he reached back and he pulled out this English common law called use soli, which it basically means that if you're born in the place, you're that's where you're from.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you if you're born in England, you're an Englishman.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: But now that there's a big difference there because England is a monarchy, and everyone who lives there is a subject of the king.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: We don't live in a monarchy, and people aren't subjects here, they're citizens.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big difference.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Huge difference.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, huge difference.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so he, Justice uh Roberts, leaned into this United States versus Wong Kim art, and he called this quote 128 years of settled understanding, which what so what?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: 128 years of settled understanding, the repetition of an error doesn't make that error true.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, it doesn't.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Although famously Adolf Hitler said that, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: The big lie.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can if you repeat the big lie enough, people will believe it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and and it's true.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: We see it in life all the time.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so he relied on this old case.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And he treated now, there's a qualifying clause.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: If your listeners uh want to look up the 14th Amendment, there's a really important qualifying clause.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: He said, First of all, he said any requirement that the parents be lawfully present in the United States, he said is what he called a textual, meaning not present in the 14th Amendment.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there is present in the 14th Amendment a clause that says that these people have to be subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he said that that's satisfied by mere presence, that you're subject to the jurisdiction of the United States by being present in the United States.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, in other words, anyone who can reach the maternity ward, that baby is now a citizen.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: But Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, they actually bothered to read the Fourteenth Amendment as the authors intended, and they wrote very plainly, Justice Thomas, who is just, you know, a gift to us, he said uh that the majority's opinion is not historically accurate, and he warned that the court had repurposed this amendment that was written originally to secure the rights of freed slaves, that they had they had transformed it into a charter for political projects that the Reconstruction era never would have contemplated.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And Justice Thomas said, quote, I am not sure that today's opinion will stand the test of time.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Justice Alito called it a serious mistake.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: He said the 14th Amendment only confers citizenship on those children who at birth owe allegiance solely to this country.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's the question.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: The whole thing turns on the little uh hinge of allegiance.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it is.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, you know, the majority stood with a slogan.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you're born here, you're American.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: That that's that's the you know the uh sum of what they said.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: The three justices who actually bothered quoting the Constitution, they said that that's that's unconstitutional and historically inaccurate.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, President Trump then asked the Supreme Court to rehear it, and he he wrote on his uh social media that American citizenship is not for sale.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you go down, I lived in Arizona for a long time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and if you go down there on the border, there are there are billboards that say contact so-and-so, and for$4,000 we'll get you to the hospital in Arizona.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it is for sale in actuality.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's for sale for about$4,000.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a a principle, Doctor, that goes back so far, but it is a myth that has endured a long time because we've been for what, six, seven generations now, 90% of Americans have been taught at public schools where the government takes a leading role in setting the curriculum, and the government takes a leading role in subsidizing textbooks, which teach these kids, taught me, taught, probably taught you, taught 90% of us what the 14th Amendment means, and it means if you're born in America, you're American.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so we don't bother to look up where that came from.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do, and like I say, the crux of this issue is allegiance and of course jurisdiction, which is the word in there.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you read it, it says all persons, so all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So they, the advocates, Robertson, them, they and the millions of people who agree with them, they stop at that phrase, born or naturalized.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's all they that's all they look at.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they completely disregard the phrase and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that phrase is not just some window dressing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: There is a substantive legal meaning rooted in that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the court in the Barber case, Trump versus Barber, just said that being on American soil makes you subject to the jurisdiction according to how they meant it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, and I'll I want to quote this because I want your listeners to be so familiar with, and and you can provide them with a link to my article about it, which will give them more than we can do in 20 minutes.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: But Senator Jacob Howard from Michigan, Republican from Michigan, he introduced this clause as part of the 14th Amendment in 1866.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what he said about it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, or who belong to the families of ambassadors or former or uh foreign ministers.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So he specifically said that it does not automatically confer citizenship if the individual's allegiance lies with a foreign power.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: How can you be both a citizen and an alien simultaneously if birth location were the sole determinant?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: If he had meant to say that, he would have just said, everyone born in the United States is a citizen.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: He did not, he says, this does not include, and he said the word of course.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what we call weasel words.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like saying something like, Well, any idiot would understand this, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so he says, This will not, of course, include persons born who are children of foreigners or aliens.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: But any idiot except that Justice Roberts.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: What's that?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Any idiot except for Justice Roberts.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so you but the the majority never answered that question.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: How can you be a citizen and a foreigner at the same time?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can't.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they the court simply said, well, we're not going to answer that question because it's irrelevant, because if you're born here, you're a citizen.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I want to read you, now this is we're going to go into the weeds a little bit, but I this is very important because this book, this book by a guy named Emmerich Devado, who wrote the book called Law of Nations.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'll tell you, this book, Law of Nations, I don't know if you heard about it a decade ago, uh, Mount Vernon, George Washington's home, returned a book to the New York City Public Library that Washington had checked out and had never returned.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so they they famously owed like half a million dollars in in late fees.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the New York Public Library famously waived them.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the book he had kept out and not returned was this book, Law of Nations, by Emirate Davido.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And this book, Law of Nations, by Emirate Davido, Benjamin Franklin said every member of the Continental Congress carried that book with them every day to Congress to refer to it, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because they saw these states as independent sovereign republics, and they want to use this law of nations how to form a confederation of these sovereign states.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to read you what Emerald DeVodel wrote in this book that was so influential.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And please, guys, get the article on this so y'all can read this, share it with your neighbors.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: He, Emirate Devottel wrote, Natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens, as the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of citizens.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers and succeed to all their rights.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Vodel's definition says that you inherit your citizenship from your parents, not the location of your birth.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if the famous analogy is if one of you know, if someone came in my house and gave birth in my house, does that kid have a right for me to have to feed and clothing?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: No one would make that ridiculous argument, but that's how ridiculous the argument of birthright citizenship is.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Be born here and we'll take care of you from cradle to grave.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's ridiculous.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And no one ever thought that back, you know, in the founding time of the founding.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think about it, Doc, think about what this does, because Devado points out what exactly is happening.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: This society cannot exist and perpetuate itself if it grants citizenship to those whose parents owe allegiance to a foreign power.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because how do you know who that kid is going to be loyal to?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you can see it.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Look at all of these demonstrations that happened with regard to President Trump and the Supreme Court decision.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: You saw all these people in New York and all over the country carrying flags, Mexican flags, Venezuelan flags, all these foreign flags.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if they were citizens, wouldn't they be flying the American flag?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Of course they would.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right, but they're not, and they don't consider themselves that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what Davado was getting at.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you go back to the records of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, you will read in there where they explained if we allow this, if we allow just being born in America to equal American, then someday it's going to come down where you're going to have foreigners in positions of power.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we're living that now.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually it'll be able to be foreigners in president.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to be a natural-born citizen.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's going to be redefined just like the word citizen was redefined.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, these are the things that matter allegiance and jurisdiction.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: If your parents, and you can it's so logical, Doc.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I do know why, because of 100 years of federally funded education and federally funded textbooks.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it's such an easy thing to understand that a baby born in this country is going to have the allegiance that his parents have, and they're going to feel that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like I say, we've seen that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen it during these uh pro these protests, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen it many times.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And there was even there's been uh one of the other uh representative John Bingham from Ohio at the time of the 14th Amendment.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: He was a key architect.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: He said, quote, every human being born with the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is a citizen.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not owing allegiance to your parents.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: You you can't have parents who just come across the border, give birth to you, and that makes you a citizen.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And all of these people said it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I'm reinterpreting this like Justice Roberts did.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm reading the text of the 14th Amendment.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: But missing but think about this: the I think the ultimate goal of those who support birthright citizenship is the misapplication of this incentivizes illegal immigration.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it undermines the principle of think about the consent of the governed.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're not, they're not, you know, their parents aren't citizens.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: They still love, you know, my culture or whatever, and they hypothetically, or yeah, you know, theoretically, they can't vote, but their kid will turn 18 and can vote.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if their kid's been raised to, you know, think some way that he's Mexican and he has to maintain his culture and all this, who's he gonna vote for?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and hawking American citizenship in installment plans, you know, layaway plans, that that's not an aberration, Doc.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you go down to the southern border, there are many billboards and many signs in storefronts.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I've seen them in pharmacies down in Mexico, it'll say, call so-and-so if you want to have your baby uh be a citizen of the United States, and how we can do that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, sneaking onto the ship, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: If I and you see it in real life, if I snuck onto a ship, you know, crossing the ocean, would I be able to sit down and eat dinner?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And would I be expected to have a a state room and to be put up and be boarded and be fed and be entertained?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't do what was necessary to enjoy those privileges, which is buy a ticket.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so it does it it doesn't, and then if I had a you know, if my wife had a child while we were on board the ship, that doesn't make my child, you know, applicable to be the captain.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Of the ship.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Citizenship is membership in a crew bound by loyalty and duty.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a souvenir of where a woman happened to be standing when she gave birth.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is not, that's a distortion.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: It not only erodes our national sovereignty, it also shows disrespect for the legislative power to regulate citizenship, which the Constitution doesn't give Congress the power to regulate immigration, but it does give it the power to regulate uh naturalization, which is the process of becoming a citizen.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And allowing those who violate the law and conferring citizenship on their offspring nullifies Congress's authority over naturalization.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like Davano said, a nation that cannot decide who belongs to it has ceased to govern itself.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: What are the president's chances of having this decision reconsidered?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Slim to none.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there because they can't.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Can the legislature address the issue?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: The legislature very much could.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: The legislature could even, according to the Constitution, the legislature could take that whole issue outside the per the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: They have the right to do that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: The power, not right, but they have the authority to do that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's just not being where you're, you know, where you're standing is not what's important.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's where your heart is, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: And Justice Alito made that very clear.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh, wherever someone happens to give birth, that that is her child, but that doesn't make her child American, depending on where her where she's standing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, Justice Alito says it's a serious mistake, he's right.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And a constitutional holding that commands a single vote, because that's if one vote had gone the other way, this would have been uh, you know, the birthright citizenship would have been overthrown.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just one vote.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't think that there's anybody who would vote any different today than they did back in in June.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And but we're completely not, we're completely, and I'll shut up after this, but they are choosing myth over meaning.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're choosing culture over constitution.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: But as I say, a decision is not doctrine just because five black robed oligarchs say that it is.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: A promise the framers never made cannot be kept by pretending that they made it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: They did not make that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: The framers of the 14th Amendment, as I've quoted to you, clearly excluded people born to foreign parents.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: But again, the court completely ignores it, and now everybody's been taught that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of what is and is not constitutional.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Not a single one of the founding fathers would back you up on that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: But to maintain the sovereignty of the United States, to preserve the integrity of citizenship, it is essential, essential, everybody, that we reject this false doctrine of birthright citizenship regardless of what the court has decreed.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the states could nullify that.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: The states are, as James Madison said, not only do they have the right, they are duty bound to nullify anything that is goes against the Constitution.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so now it's up to us.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're the ones who have to stand resolutely in defense of the rule of law and of allegiance as the foundation of citizenship.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: The court may have spoken, but that ain't the last word.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's up to us in the individual states to uh address the issue and to do so decisively.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you gotta, you know, you gotta be it becomes every man has been warned to warn his neighbor.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: We've got to, you know, I I hope you can include a link to this article and people will sit down, read it, you know, underline it, learn it, and then pass it along because you can print it out, you know, for free at home.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: And because there are still there, there are, as you know, as we learn, you know, in Elijah, there are thousands of Americans who have not bowed the knee to bail.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: The Lord promised that, and I know that He fulfills that promise today.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: There are still thousands of Americans who haven't bowed the knee to Supreme Court tyranny or to any tyranny, period.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we just need to find them and bring them, bring them to an understanding of these timeless principles of citizenship, which should mean a whole lot and today means next to nothing because of the perversion of the 14th Amendment carried on for so long now.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: I got you.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Joe, this is a very interesting discussion, and I really wanted my listeners to hear you uh share your expertise on the on the whole concept.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And will you come back and talk to us again at a later date?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, sure.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be happy to.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know that I at your beckon call, as they say, and I will I will uh text you the uh the link.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, you text me the link and I'll include it with this uh with this podcast.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: All right, you you're listening to More Than Medicine.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Dr.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Robert Jackson.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: My guest today is Joe Wolverton, a constitutional lawyer, and I'm just so delighted to have him with us, and uh I'll invite him back again to discuss another constitutional issue another day.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Joe.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we'll be back again next week.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Until next week, remember Jesus loves you and your doctor loves you.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: And until then, may the Lord bless you real good.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, Instagram, or webpage at JacksonFamily Ministry.com.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to check out Jackson Jackson.