Latest / Sorta Sophisticated / Episode 103 - The Guilt Screen: How America Turned Gratitude Into a Transaction

Transcript

Episode 103 - The Guilt Screen: How America Turned Gratitude Into a Transaction · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. Okay, so I go to YLS the other day to get bagels. You know yls, right?
• 0:08
  Speaker B: Nos.
• 0:09
  Speaker A: You totally know yl. It's by Home Goods and Trader Joe's.
• 0:11
  Speaker B: Sip. What?
• 0:12
  Speaker A: Okay, it stands for the Yor Belinda Shop. Shop. S, H, O, P, P, E. Ooh, Shopee. Yeah, yeah. Kind of dumb. Okay, whatever. But that's not my point. My point is I'm getting bagels Sunday morning. Cause I'm a nice guy, right? And of course the person there turns like the iPad thingy to you right to my face, right? And like staring at me at whatever. Eight o' clock in the morning is the 18%, 20, 25%. And then in the little teeny corner that you barely even know unless you go there enough, it says no tip. And then of course, I hit that while, you know, genius is staring at me.
• 0:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 0:41
  Speaker A: And I'm like, whatever, I'm an asshole. Like, I don't care, like, what they do. They shove.
• 0:44
  Speaker B: They took my order, six things right
• 0:45
  Speaker A: in a box, like as they should have. Bingo. Exactly. That's why the donuts cost what they cost. And I walk out, I feel totally judged and everything. And I'm like, why am I feeling bad right now? This is so dumb. And so I looked this up and there's actually like a phenomenon. It's like a psychology thing. It's not an accident. This shit is totally engineered. So this is how this episode is born. Because I figure you and I have the great tip debate and we figure out how the tip turned into this like, most passive aggressive financial transaction in.
• 1:14
  Speaker B: I don't think you want my opinion on this.
• 1:16
  Speaker A: Oh, we're. We're locking in.
• 1:17
  Speaker B: We're doing this.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: I mean, we might even be on the same page. It doesn't even matter. I just figured the idea of tipping, I think a lot of people have opinions about. And so it would be more of like a fun episode, I guess, if you're outside the United States. This is very culturally relevant. If you're listening in like Denmark or,
• 1:32
  Speaker B: you know, I mean, it's still fascinating. Anything?
• 1:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, here we are, everybody. Welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated. I'm Pete and with me, as always, is Amanda. Hello, Amanda.
• 1:39
  Speaker B: Hello. Hello.
• 1:40
  Speaker A: I don't know if this is quite culture chaos and curiosity colliding on this one.
• 1:43
  Speaker B: I mean, it kind of is, because it is. It is a very, like, American culture.
• 1:46
  Speaker A: We're doing it. This is happening right now. We're gonna. Basically, I've decided we have microphones. We're gonna. For the next half hour about tipping. How do you like that?
• 1:53
  Speaker B: All right, I'm ready for it.
• 1:54
  Speaker A: It's totally going.
• 1:55
  Speaker B: But in all fairness, because it is so ingrained in our culture, I never really thought about it. Let me take a step back. I did think about it in the sense of, like, going to mostly Asian restaurants.
• 2:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker B: It's not, like, an expectation of sorts. Right?
• 2:08
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, I get it. Even in America, because they're so Asian.
• 2:11
  Speaker B: Right?
• 2:12
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I got you.
• 2:12
  Speaker B: And then when Trent and I first started dating, so this was, like, 20 years ago, and he would tip. Like, why'd you leave money? Because you're supposed to tip him thinking, ooh, I'm doing a good deed. I'm leaving a good tip.
• 2:23
  Speaker A: Yeah. Showing off. I'm showing off for.
• 2:25
  Speaker B: My girlfriend judged him, was like, why
• 2:27
  Speaker A: would you do that, white boy?
• 2:28
  Speaker B: Because, again, culturally, we don't tip. So.
• 2:31
  Speaker A: But in his defense, did he know he was in a serious Asian restaurant, or did he think he was in an American Asian restaurant?
• 2:36
  Speaker B: No, no, it was. It wasn't even an Asian restaurant. It was an American restaurant.
• 2:40
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 2:40
  Speaker B: And I judged him for living a tip.
• 2:42
  Speaker A: Oh, gotcha.
• 2:42
  Speaker B: In a restaurant, period.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 2:44
  Speaker B: So that's a you thing. So I do think that it's. It's going to be a fascinating episode. All that to say.
• 2:49
  Speaker A: No, I. You know how. You know how I always do the Jedi. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We're going to do it again. So here's official title, right. The Guilt Screen.
• 2:57
  Speaker B: The Guilt Screen.
• 2:58
  Speaker A: The Guilt Screen. How America Turned Gratitude into a Transaction. Because, I mean, basically now we're stuck tipping 20% for, like, absolutely everything. And they make us feel. They. Right. All the servers and the establishments make us feel like we have to or we're bad people.
• 3:12
  Speaker B: And I'm gonna start doing 10%.
• 3:13
  Speaker A: Well, I think we should talk about that. I think we should talk about when to do 10 and when to do 20 and when, like, all those things.
• 3:18
  Speaker B: Well, there used to be a rule.
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:21
  Speaker B: On, like, when you would do it, but now I just feel it's an assumed 20, end of story.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: So I did some research. I have a little bit. I have some nuggets on when that all happened.
• 3:29
  Speaker B: All right.
• 3:30
  Speaker A: Because you are absolutely correct. There was a specific time. Oh, two times that it shifted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very interesting.
• 3:37
  Speaker B: All right, well, word of the week. We got it last week, so.
• 3:39
  Speaker A: We did. We did. We're back on track.
• 3:41
  Speaker B: Keep the ball rolling.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: We are back on Track. And you are gonna love this. Word of the week. Okay.
• 3:45
  Speaker B: Falafel.
• 3:46
  Speaker A: No. Oh, my God, that would be so good. Okay, our word of the week this week. Don't laugh. Is louch. Louch, yes. Spelled like douche. Yes, Spelled like douche. Louche. L, O, U, C, H, E. Yes, that's happening. It's an adjective. I mean, douche is a noun, but louche is an adjective. It means disreputable or sordid. Like in a way that's still somehow charming. Okay. It comes from the French word louche, which literally means cross eyed. The original idea being that a louche person can't quite look you straight in the eye.
• 4:17
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:17
  Speaker A: Something sort of off, sort of sideways. Not sophisticated, but somehow still intriguing enough, Amanda. Not to look away. Right. Loose.
• 4:27
  Speaker B: It's kind of like when there's a car accident or a wreck. Yes, it's very loose.
• 4:31
  Speaker A: Very loose. Very. Yeah, Very specific word. You're right. This one's going to be hard. Like kind of like a backhanded compliment, but not a backhanded compliment, but kind of. Yeah, Same kind of weird thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: Cross eyed person. But I'm still right.
• 4:42
  Speaker A: Here we go. Right.
• 4:44
  Speaker B: All right, well, we're talking about tipping, so where are we starting? Is there a history of tipping? Like where it came from, why it's here?
• 4:49
  Speaker A: We're going to do history. We're going to do history. We'll kind of buzz through it fast because, I mean, all people want to really hear about is like, what's our philosophy on tipping? And like, do we. What should we do here in America? Right. So, like, we'll get to the argument.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: Is it an American thing?
• 4:59
  Speaker A: It's totally American thing. It's only an American thing.
• 5:01
  Speaker B: Only.
• 5:02
  Speaker A: There are a few other places, but. Yes, yeah, yeah. Like America, Canada, a little bit of Mexico. Sure.
• 5:07
  Speaker B: But like, did it go there because it started in America.
• 5:10
  Speaker A: Yep. Didn't start in America. It started in Europe, actually. Yeah. So let's just do history quick. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I thought it was American. It's not. Britain, 16th, 17th century England to be exact. Like medieval times. Yeah. So the theory is most historians are disagreeing on this. This isn't like all perfect. This is a theory. But like, the most accepted version of the story is in taverns where people used to get hammered. Ob. Obviously customers would give a little extra change straight to the servers before they got their drinks because they wanted to make sure they'd get them fast. Yeah.
• 5:37
  Speaker B: And they incentivize them.
• 5:38
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. So there was just these little boxes on the tables that had the letters on them actually. Tip. Do you know what TIP stands for? Tip?
• 5:45
  Speaker B: No. Like tif. It'd be like tits and face, but I can't.
• 5:48
  Speaker A: Whoa. Wow. No. To ensure promptness. That's amazing. To ensure promptness. That's so smart. Whatever. I don't know. It's. Again, it's debated.
• 5:58
  Speaker B: I'm not sure what prominence today. Why do I got a tip?
• 6:01
  Speaker A: I mean, it's genius, but, like, historical content. I'm giving you history.
• 6:04
  Speaker B: I know, but now it's all.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: Soon we'll get to that. Well, apparently we know where Amanda lies on this whole side of the debate. Right. So here we go. To be official, the meaning of tip is debatable. I'm not going to lie. But the idea of giving extra money for service started in England somewhere around late 1600s. Medieval times. Okay. So then it moves to America, naturally. Right. Thirteen colonies, duh.
• 6:22
  Speaker B: Comes over. Okay, sure.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: British people start selling America. All these rich people sailing back and forth and subsequently deciding it was a
• 6:27
  Speaker B: thing back in, like, the 1600s.
• 6:29
  Speaker A: Yes, that's how it's. Yes.
• 6:31
  Speaker B: Rooted in American. Okay.
• 6:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. So then tipping really started catching on over here somewhere around the early 1800s, because we wanted to look sophisticated, keep up with the British. So here we are, and it goes on that way, super simple, for, like, all the way till sort of post Civil War. Okay, so where are we? Like 1870? We're going to call it Reconstruction era to be sophisticated. Anybody paying attention? The Reconstruction era, that's when all the American businesses were making all the money, literally restructuring America because, you know, they blew up all the. The shit during the Civil War. So we're redoing railroads, we're, like, fixing everything. Restaurants, Everything's got to come back up. And they get this genius idea, hey, all these people that are now trying to work are slaves anyway. Or were slaves. Right. We don't need to pay them shit. So why don't we just save all that money and subsidize it by telling America, you have to pay these people? So tipping starts happening. A way to sort of not pay well. And that's what.
• 7:23
  Speaker B: That would make sense to me as to where tip came. Employers didn't want to pay for it, so they passed it on down.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. And. And. And somehow this is the system that we accepted all the way back in the 1870s. And here we are, okay.
• 7:38
  Speaker B: So angry at life.
• 7:39
  Speaker A: Yes. So that's America. So then we get to, like, the 1900s and actually believe it. Or not. Amanda. There was a massive anti tipping movement.
• 7:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, they were trying to get.
• 7:49
  Speaker A: They were trying to get rid. Listen to you. They're trying to get rid of it. I looked this up, like, got together and they were like, no, no, no. This is degrading for workers. Like, we're stopping this whole thing. There was a whole book in 1916 called the Itching Palm, which is about how tipping was already corrupting American values. So Washington, Mississippi, Arkansas, Iowa, maybe a few other ones, they all get together. But then what happens in 1918, prohibition. And all the restaurants can't serve alcohol anymore. And so their margins take a shit. And all of a sudden tips start mattering a lot more. So they just picked the worst time in history to anti tip. Because if it would have been any
• 8:23
  Speaker B: other time, we would have no tips.
• 8:25
  Speaker A: We would have no tips would be great.
• 8:26
  Speaker B: How do we start this again?
• 8:27
  Speaker A: We did this stupid prohibition thing and then repealed the damn thing. But tipping stayed the whole time.
• 8:33
  Speaker B: Well, and it's now crazy. So how did we get here from prohibition time?
• 8:37
  Speaker A: It was a lot of drinks, a lot of alcohol. That's what got us here.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: Well, fair.
• 8:40
  Speaker A: No, it's insane. I agree. And we'll get to like, the whole. How it increased so much in a second here. So it goes on the whole 20th century. You went to a restaurant, you tipped your waiter, maybe a taxi driver, 15%. Pretty generous, by the way. Usually it was 10%. Back then, everybody was fine. Two things happen post 2000. Like year 2000, everything blew up. Dun, dun, dun. So I said at the beginning, first one, iPad. I know it seems innocuous enough, like iPad. Peter, what are you talking about? Cause now places had a way to shove shit in our face. So square and toast. You know those software platforms, they come along, point of sale now, like, piece of. Right.
• 9:16
  Speaker B: Just kidding.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: That's very funny. No. So I think good on them, but also, like, super sneaky to the American public, let's be honest. Because they put the tip prompt thing in front of you. Now before you walk away. That wasn't happening before. Before it was a whole, like, system. You got a paper receipt, you sat at the table, you filled the tip out after the meal, you thought about it. It was private. Nobody was watching you. It was completely different back then. You. You had time to decide if, like.
• 9:42
  Speaker B: Well, you had to work for your tip and then.
• 9:43
  Speaker A: But you had time to decide if the service. Now they just shove it right in front of your face. Like, I have a friend. I go to this restaurant regularly in Chino for lunch. And he's a server, and it's a running joke between him and I. As soon as he hands it to me, I'm like, nope, the machine. Put it down. I'm like, walk away and put it down. And he's like, no, no, no, I won't look. I won't look. I'm like, I don't. I don't care if you look or not. You could totally tell where my finger's going. This is absolute bullshit. Walk away. And we. We jostle with each other. We, like, screw around with each other.
• 10:07
  Speaker B: We banter. Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker A: So, I mean, he's having fun with it, but it's absolutely asinine. And he tells me it is absolutely the most uncomfortable part of his job all the time is to shove that stupid thing in front of somebody's face and stand there. He hates it.
• 10:19
  Speaker B: Why can't they leave it?
• 10:21
  Speaker A: Well, they're technically not supposed to leave it. I mean, maybe they don't have enough of them. I don't know. Whatever.
• 10:24
  Speaker B: Clear. You get heated about this?
• 10:26
  Speaker A: I am heated about. Do you're not uncomfortable when they stare at you?
• 10:29
  Speaker B: I mean. No.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: Does it.
• 10:32
  Speaker B: I don't go back to places that like reoccurring. Do you know what I mean? Like. Okay, fine.
• 10:37
  Speaker A: I'll ask you a question, though.
• 10:38
  Speaker B: Yes, go ahead.
• 10:38
  Speaker A: When they shove that in front of you, do you feel obligated to do something different?
• 10:42
  Speaker B: No, I don't.
• 10:43
  Speaker A: You. Okay, then you are one in a billion.
• 10:45
  Speaker B: No, I was just raised culturally different, where you either.
• 10:50
  Speaker A: Are you telling me that all the Asians in America don't tip?
• 10:53
  Speaker B: No. I mean, I don't know, but.
• 10:54
  Speaker A: I mean, I probably should say that, but is that what you're trying to
• 10:57
  Speaker B: say where it wasn't expected, but you're
• 11:00
  Speaker A: saying that's a cultural thing then.
• 11:01
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:02
  Speaker A: So after this many years of living in Orange county, you like, I'm still judgy.
• 11:06
  Speaker B: I'm still judging about.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: So you literally. Okay, so I'm like.
• 11:08
  Speaker B: I'm the person that. If you charge me the 18% and I don't feel like we got 18%, I will ask people to change it.
• 11:14
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. Well, good for you. Then. I need to be more like you, because I would say so there's actually a psychological phenomenon. Oh, I'm sure there is. Yeah. There's research on all of this where people feel bad. Right. So good on you. You've bucked the system. Studies show that when that screen faces a customer. And it's certainly me Absolutely. And the employees there tips go up like 20 or 30% to. When you fill it out completely privately
• 11:37
  Speaker B: on your own public shame.
• 11:38
  Speaker A: Think about that for a second. So if you were going to tip 10 bucks, 20 or 30% more like, that's another two or three dollars. Yeah, right. Because you have somebody in front of you. It's pressure. It's totally bullshit. Okay, the second thing that happened.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: Are you ready to call you out?
• 11:48
  Speaker A: Huh?
• 11:49
  Speaker B: You're just where they're going to call you out.
• 11:50
  Speaker A: Maybe I'm just a white loser. What do you want me to say? I don't know. Maybe I need more of you. Okay, what's the second thing? You totally know the second thing.
• 11:55
  Speaker B: I do.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: What is it? Yes. You know the second thing. Covid. Covid changed everything, Right? So all the restaurants start dying. People felt guilty. Remember, support your local restaurant. Right? So that whole thing. So then everybody's risking to give you food. And so all the takeout. You started tipping on takeout. I started tipping on takeout like crazy. Because. Right. You had to. So nobody really talks about it or anything, but that is absolutely the moment when we moved from 15 to 18%. Super quiet, done and done. And then of course, 20% became the new 18% and so on and so forth. We never went back. That's it. Covid reset the baseline. Toast square. The software packages, the iPad took advantage of it, shoved it in our face, and literally, you cannot. You have to go find the custom tip button.
• 12:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, the other.
• 12:37
  Speaker A: And when you find the custom tip button. Don't even get me started. When you find the custom tip button, it's insane, because then you have to do the math right in front. Then you're there for another hour trying to figure out all the math. Like, don't. Oh, my God. Okay.
• 12:46
  Speaker B: That's how you just do 10% across the board.
• 12:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, you know, the whole. In business. You heard scope creep. There's scope creep. Oh, you're charged. I got to charge you more for. This is tip creep. Yeah, I'm. I'm on. I'm on your. I'm on your bandwagon right now. I think it's tip. Can we coin that term? Like, is that TM Creedm? Tip creep. I don't know if that's a thing or not, but I'm just telling you, I literally think at some point here, shortly, I'm going to be like at Vons, and there's going to be a
• 13:11
  Speaker B: tip for the cashier, for the grocery.
• 13:12
  Speaker A: For the grocery. The bagger Sorry, Bags of groceries for you. Yeah, no shit. Right?
• 13:16
  Speaker B: Well, and here's my biggest thing, is that, like, we get hired to do a job. I don't get tipped to my job. I got to do my job is what I'm doing.
• 13:23
  Speaker A: No, I understand that, but, like, we can't piss off anybody in the hospitality space. It's bullshit. Because there are awesome people that do awesome stuff that go above and beyond.
• 13:30
  Speaker B: Right. But there's an expectation now, and that's, I think, where my issue lies.
• 13:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:34
  Speaker B: Because now that there's this expectation that it's at least 18%, at least 20.
• 13:38
  Speaker A: Okay. So, sorry, I gotta. I gotta.
• 13:39
  Speaker B: Because I need a fair living wage.
• 13:40
  Speaker A: I hear you, I hear you. I hear you. I'm with you. I'm separate. Something to make it really clear for everybody. So I'm just pissed and arguing about the idea of shoving the damn iPad in my face, like at the bagel store when they've done just their regular job. Nobody's gone above and beyond. No one made sure they, like, I didn't see them do something specific or special. Right. You go get a coffee at a coffee shop. They just. All they're doing is putting the. That's their job. You go to a restaurant and there's a server who's taking good care of you.
• 14:07
  Speaker B: Well, that's a different story.
• 14:08
  Speaker A: Right. So I'm separating the idea of the iPad than everything else. So servers don't get pissed at me. Hospitality people don't get pissed at me.
• 14:15
  Speaker B: But I would argue that this also all started with the, like, bagels and the quick service institutions with Starbucks, because it was like, tip your barista, Tip your barista. They made your coffee.
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:25
  Speaker B: I thought they were. That was their job.
• 14:27
  Speaker A: IPad. Yes. I mean, yes, you could argue, start like franchises, but it's all iPad. Up until the iPad, there was no point of sale platform they could put in your face. Nothing.
• 14:34
  Speaker B: Right. And it was cash based off of.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: But you got to do all of that afterwards. You got to decide afterwards. So even the tip jar. Even the tip jar, you could decide, right? Like, it's just. It's completely bonkers. All right, can we debate? Are we ready?
• 14:50
  Speaker B: I think we were already debating.
• 14:51
  Speaker A: Even if we're already on the same side. I don't even know. Okay, so instead of doing the. We hate. We hate tipping. We like tipping. I don't want to do that. I'm going to do the two defendable positions, and then we're going to just like debate the defendable positions.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: Okay, okay. Fine.
• 15:02
  Speaker A: Okay, here we are. So side A, tipping sucks. It's broken, should be totally abolished. Restaurants should finally just pay the living wage, put it in the menu price, end of story. Literally. That's what every other country does. No other country is broken. It's working. Right? Like economists, a lot of them in America are absolutely arguing that's exactly what we should be doing. Famous restaurateurs are starting to do that whole thing.
• 15:23
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 15:24
  Speaker A: No tipping experiments. That's the whole thing. Because the argument is tipping is totally arbitrary. It's totally biased. There's absolute research that total data. Tips correlate with the attractiveness of the server, which totally sucks. The race of the server, whether you're a man or a woman. All of this plays in to if you're getting a tip or not, which is total bullshit and has zero to do with service. So that's, that's one side. Okay. The other side is, is don't mess with tips. Leave everything alone. Every time someone tries to go no tip and build it into the menu price, all the good servers decide to leave and abandon the whole industry because they want their commission. Like, that's how, like good servers at busy restaurants make real money. It's a real job. So if you flatten everybody out to hourly, you've basically just told your best employee who does everything.
• 16:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, right.
• 16:11
  Speaker A: Like it doesn't matter. Your hustle, your career concern, all of that doesn't matter. So you can argue there's an argument on this side where like, tipping creates accountability. Of course, it's an absolute financial incentive to do good at your job. No tip, no incentive. Right. And then you have the customer side of it, of course, where, like, there are times when you've gone out, I'm sure you've gone to a restaurant and you've had excellent service and you're like, no, no, no, no. I want to personally have a human interaction with someone and show them that I am respecting what they do. I've had a few of those where these people are awesome. There is a human capacity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So I don't know where are, where do you like, are. I mean, obviously you're sort of anti tipping. Are you like, let's go with what the economists are saying and let's get rid of all this thing, pay everyone a living wage and see what happens. Like break the system in America.
• 16:51
  Speaker B: It's hard because, you know, it did experience that. That's the argument in Australia. Right. And I would say service is not the same as it Is in America worse or better? It's worse.
• 17:02
  Speaker A: But they're all getting paid living wage in Australia.
• 17:04
  Speaker B: They are. They don't. They don't care as much.
• 17:05
  Speaker A: Right.
• 17:06
  Speaker B: They don't have to make you happy, et cetera, et cetera. So I do understand the motivation behind tipping, but I think as a culture, we've gotten so numb to it that even servers are comfortable and cushy, knowing, oh, I'm gonna get 20% anyway. And so it doesn't matter what I do.
• 17:22
  Speaker A: So. So we've dumbed it down anyway. So we're serving like we're in Australia, but they're getting the extra. So I'm on that side of the argument. I'm literally on. On side A, which is blow the whole system up. We will reset a baseline. I understand what you're saying. Which is like, well, then service is gonna change. Got it. But then service is gonna change for everyone.
• 17:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker A: And so I'll just get used to the fact that service is changing for everyone.
• 17:42
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker A: And I don't. And I'm all for building it into the price of the meal. I'm not saying I want to save money.
• 17:48
  Speaker B: And I can see why restaurateurs don't want that, though, because they're like, well, now my meal looks so expensive because I'm paying X amount and blah, blah, blah, blah. But here's the thing. What that is then your choice. That is, then your choice to go out and spend that at that place or not. You know, I mean, at some point in time, we got to stop passing the buck is all I'm saying.
• 18:05
  Speaker A: Were you ever in the service industry?
• 18:06
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 18:07
  Speaker A: Okay. I was not. So I probably don't get to talk on this subject. This is not okay. But I think if I was in the service industry, I would want to hustle. Like, it's just my nature. It's what I would want to do.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: Right. But again, it rewards. I mean, the tipping side does reward that attitude, but it can still happen.
• 18:23
  Speaker A: Even if you have the other way, even if you go to flatten the whole thing, you can still get.
• 18:27
  Speaker B: You can still have an optional line of additional tip or whatever, and people will do it. Yeah.
• 18:32
  Speaker A: If you.
• 18:33
  Speaker B: And I think. Part I think is going back to how it originally started. What was it there a little acronym? It was a.
• 18:40
  Speaker A: To ensure promptness.
• 18:42
  Speaker B: Yes. There you go. And, like, that happens if we base our tipping.
• 18:45
  Speaker A: Like that happens here in America.
• 18:47
  Speaker B: So sometimes if a good server. But I mean, like, if that's the case, then I do feel like it's warranted. Right. Server goes above and beyond.
• 18:57
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 18:57
  Speaker B: What their already job description is.
• 19:00
  Speaker A: Right. So here's the thing is we all have different ideas of what server's job descriptions are, because we're all entitled differently. If I see someone in a restaurant and it's crowded and it's super busy and I see them working their ass off and they don't get to me, and it's really hard and they're trying to be polite, that's not their fault. It's the establishment's fault for not managing the staff.
• 19:19
  Speaker B: But that's why they should also have a living wage.
• 19:21
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 19:22
  Speaker B: So that way that takes care of that.
• 19:23
  Speaker A: Right. But I am at the point where I think 80% of people in the service industry are not hustling.
• 19:30
  Speaker B: Probably.
• 19:30
  Speaker A: I mean, I'm being an asshole. I don't know what to say. If I get canceled, I get canceled.
• 19:34
  Speaker B: But I think that was also after Covid, Right?
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Absolutely. It was a weird ass transition. Everybody realized what the new normal was, and so they're all signing up for it. And it's like. And I don't need people hustling, like, sweating it out. I don't need that. I don't. I'm not trying to be a little
• 19:49
  Speaker B: bit of attention, literally.
• 19:51
  Speaker A: Even if they can say, hey, I know I haven't gotten to you yet. I'm sorry. I recognize that. I'll be with you. Do you know how much time they buy with me? A lot of time.
• 19:59
  Speaker B: Right.
• 20:00
  Speaker A: Because they just paid attention. That's it.
• 20:02
  Speaker B: But I also, like, yes, 100%. But I also feel like in our today's society, with all of our fancy cocktails and drinks and all, like, buying expense, like, we base it off of a total number and then we also base it after tax, which I have an issue with. That's a whole soapbox.
• 20:18
  Speaker A: I don't base it after tax, but
• 20:20
  Speaker B: when they calculate your percentage, it's always after tax.
• 20:22
  Speaker A: You do. Okay, so the automatic gratuity.
• 20:24
  Speaker B: Gratuity. Do you know the automatic gratuity?
• 20:25
  Speaker A: I am with you. But do you know how you said you have no problem tipping 10%? If that's what you think, I have absolutely no problem adjusting any tip to pull tax out. Kiss my ass. That is not what you're getting.
• 20:36
  Speaker B: Right?
• 20:36
  Speaker A: No, I'm not playing. I am blessed to know enough math and can do it so fast in my head. Most people don't. They're like, left confused.
• 20:44
  Speaker B: So you're 25% tipping versus yeah, yeah.
• 20:47
  Speaker A: Which is absolute horseshit and then when
• 20:49
  Speaker B: you order drinks at a table, you order a bottle of wine and I'm like, listen, I'm getting penalized.
• 20:55
  Speaker A: Okay, hold on.
• 20:55
  Speaker B: We got at a restaurant.
• 20:57
  Speaker A: Can we do all the nuances then? Like, can we do all like what you're bringing up right now? Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good thing. We should just talk about. Okay, so do you tip on tax?
• 21:06
  Speaker B: No.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: You don't? Okay, I don't either. Okay, got it. Yes. I changed the math. Okay, what are you saying? Bottle of wine. What was your idea? Give me your idea.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: If you buy a drink like I bought just a regular house wine, right? $14 for a glass. Yeah, but I buy a full bottle and the bottle is $100.
• 21:20
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 21:21
  Speaker B: Why am I paying now for four glasses? $100.
• 21:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:25
  Speaker B: Versus.
• 21:25
  Speaker A: Okay, two arguments. So I'm with you. I'm with you. But my argument, I do have a little bit of an argument there. So one of the arguments is food and alcohol. For me, this one's hard, but I'm with you. If four people at the table get four drinks and they'll serve us to take those orders, bring them back to the bartender, make sure all the drinks are right, get them out to the table, check on each one of them, Remember sort of which drink each of you ordered. Ask if you want another one. To me, that's worth the same amount as food because it's a complex drink thing, but to your point of like you order 100 bottle of wine instead of a $20 bottle of wine and it's all you're doing is popping the cork and pouring for no, I'm done, I'm out. So if I order a hundred dollar bottle of wine, I absolutely discount that. If I.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: You take it off the total.
• 22:05
  Speaker A: So if I have $50 worth of food and I have a hundred dollars worth of wine because it's one, one bottle of wine, I'll tip the 18 on 18 or 20 on the $50. I will only tip 10% on the hundred dollar bottle of wine. And then I do tip 10. And again, I will say this is what's so stupid. I know this sounds like I'm an ego freak. I'm fast at estimating. Doesn't feel uncomfortable for me, right. To like figure it out quick. But if I was in a situation where I was on a date with somebody or I was feeling uncomfortable, I feel pressure.
• 22:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker A: But because I can do it fast enough, I don't. And I totally. What do you do with a hundred dollar bottle of Wine. Do you tip it or.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: My husband usually takes care of it and he just. He's very generous and tips on the whole thing.
• 22:43
  Speaker A: So he does. Oh, no, I don't. I do. So. I used to. So up to.
• 22:46
  Speaker B: I do not.
• 22:46
  Speaker A: I. I probably only changed that at Covid. That's when I changed it.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: But here's like, it's. And I think even a step further, right?
• 22:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Speaker B: I think it's hard for me when you're just pouring my drink. Right. Like, if I'm getting a beer and you're just, you know, pulling a handle or you're taking out a wine, just pouring the wine. Right. You're not making a cocktail. You're not doing much for it. Yeah, I feel like that, like, it used to be where like a dollar, a dollar a drink or $2 a drink is what you would tip. Yeah, right.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:18
  Speaker B: And so now it's not. It's a percentage.
• 23:20
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:20
  Speaker B: And so I have an issue.
• 23:21
  Speaker A: Right. Because that beer is $20. So 20% of $20, you just tip $4 for that beer.
• 23:26
  Speaker B: But it's like.
• 23:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. Instead of.
• 23:27
  Speaker B: You just poured it.
• 23:28
  Speaker A: I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:29
  Speaker B: But also with food, I understand fish is more expensive than chicken.
• 23:33
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:34
  Speaker B: Is the preparation that much different? Sure, I guess. One would argue. But not really.
• 23:37
  Speaker A: Also buco, you know.
• 23:39
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I buy your fish special. That is, you know, $75. And the chicken was 40. Yeah, well, now I'm spending.
• 23:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. But I would. But my argument is you just went into that restaurant, you generally knew the price is not restaurant, so, like, you just gotta do it.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: But that's what I'm saying, though, is that it should. If it was all included in the price of whatever you purchased. Right. And it's in the living wage. Well, now we're having an argument over just service, right? Now I'm gonna tip you for the service. That's what you're trying to be on.
• 24:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I got you. I got. No, no, I'm with you. Okay. What about takeout? Do you still tip for takeout? You don't. I will when I know it's a family restaurant and I frequent it regularly. I will tip for takeout if it's a chain. I don't. No, not at all. Doordash Ubereats.
• 24:24
  Speaker B: I do.
• 24:25
  Speaker A: Like What? Like whatever. Like 18. Like it's. They do 18, 22, 25 or whatever, I guess.
• 24:29
  Speaker B: You know, I feel about Uber Eats is a little different. Is because they are going from one place to another, pick up my food to bring it to me for a convenience. And so that one, I'm a little more generous, so.
• 24:38
  Speaker A: Me too. I think the same thing. They're doing real work.
• 24:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:40
  Speaker A: Like, same as pizza delivery. Like, what, 20 years ago.
• 24:42
  Speaker B: Right.
• 24:43
  Speaker A: You felt good tipping. Somebody's bringing you your damn food. So I'm completely okay outside of restaurants. Can I go outside? Sure. Anything else in restaurants that I missed?
• 24:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker A: Okay. Housekeeping at hotels.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't.
• 24:55
  Speaker A: You don't? Okay. So I would argue those are the best people in the world and they get shit on the most. And so I totally do. The problem is you need cash, and a lot of people don't carry cash,
• 25:07
  Speaker B: and that's probably why. Yeah. Now you don't think about it.
• 25:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I try to. So it depends on. I generally try to leave five bucks a night. Like, like, it's hard because you have to remember to have cash. Because you can't Venmo them or what? Like, some places, I think a few places are now starting to put Venmo where it goes to, like, a service, you know, whatever thing, but whatever valet.
• 25:28
  Speaker B: I know we're supposed to. So by social pressure. I do. But I do get really irritated. Cause I'm like, again, this is your job.
• 25:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I would say this. I know. I'm valet.
• 25:39
  Speaker B: You're getting my car. That is what, that is the sole purpose of your job.
• 25:42
  Speaker A: I know. And valets, I mean, they're like bellhops. Do you do bellhops? Concierge. Well, concierge servers.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: Like, if they are lifting my luggage and, like, that's the extra. Yeah, right. Because as a bellhop, you're there to help, like, push my car, bring me a car, whatever. Yeah, but if you're picking up my luggage, taking my room on, you know, taking it off the cart for me and putting it in. Okay, that's extra.
• 26:03
  Speaker A: What are you giving, like, valet? What are you doing? Are you five bucks? At least ten bucks? Like, what are you doing? You're not doing dollar bills? Not anymore. Are you?
• 26:10
  Speaker B: No, I usually have dollar bills.
• 26:11
  Speaker A: You do have dollar bills.
• 26:12
  Speaker B: No, I don't.
• 26:13
  Speaker A: You don't like five, because five or ten bucks. Right, Exactly. Right. Which, which can add up because especially if you're staying at a hotel or something, you go, you're like, I'm getting my car. I'm getting. So a lot of times I'm staying at a hotel. Like, remember when we were in Hawaii, the other. We stayed at the hotel. I just tipped the guy at the end. I probably Picked up that car 100 times. Because I asked him. I actually went up and I said, hey, how do these guys get like, well, we have a pool of money that I'm like, beautiful. So I just made sure it was like, whatever it was, 30 bucks a day. And I was like, okay, here's 90 bucks or however many nights I stayed there. Yeah. Because otherwise you're like figuring out, doling out cash.
• 26:42
  Speaker B: And it's hard because sometimes you have to pay for parking too. So I'm paying for parking, but now I'm paying for somebody to get my car back to me, even though I paid for parking. And I get. That doesn't go to them. So I really think it comes back to the employer. Right. And how they're employing these people and. Yeah, it's a service industry.
• 26:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. No, the employee, the employer has found a way in America to push costs onto us.
• 27:05
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:05
  Speaker A: And other countries don't do it. And I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. Okay, what about people do work on your house?
• 27:11
  Speaker B: It's happening right now.
• 27:12
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:13
  Speaker B: I feel real guilty, so. Oh, I feel like.
• 27:15
  Speaker A: Like who? What? Like you have a general contract. Big work.
• 27:17
  Speaker B: They're painting, so we're getting our house painted.
• 27:20
  Speaker A: Oh, I don't tip my painters. I wouldn't tip a painter, but like, I would tip like a mover. Like, I would ship somebody who came over like one. Like, if a painter's there, that's a huge deal. I mean, they're there for a week, two weeks. I'm talking about if like your garage door breaks and somebody comes over or like you're.
• 27:35
  Speaker B: But why?
• 27:36
  Speaker A: Because the money is going to the company.
• 27:39
  Speaker B: They get paid. That's their job.
• 27:41
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 27:41
  Speaker B: Versus somebody who's out in your house.
• 27:43
  Speaker A: Do you tip your gardener?
• 27:44
  Speaker B: I don't have a gardener.
• 27:44
  Speaker A: Okay. I have a gardener. And number one, if I see it's a hot day, number one, I'm bringing them water all the time.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:49
  Speaker A: Oh, you want waters? Wherever. And then I always make sure at least annually they get something. They're certainly. They're sort of taking care of. They're checking in again. It depends. If they don't check in on me ever, like.
• 27:59
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:59
  Speaker A: That's fine.
• 28:00
  Speaker B: When you get something annually, that's kind of like an end of the year bonus or a Christmas gift.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Well, I call that a tip still.
• 28:05
  Speaker B: But like, I feel like it's harder when again, people are doing their jobs. But now in the service industry, it's now become an expectation oh, you need to tip me.
• 28:15
  Speaker A: Okay, so you're giving you. But these people aren't asking for tip. None of these people are asking for tip.
• 28:19
  Speaker B: Movers aren't asking for, like, a whole. I'm not saying they're asking for it, but like, we as Americans have created it as an expectation. Yes, right. Maybe they're not asking for it, but, like, it's that underlying. That's why you feel bad when you don't tip.
• 28:33
  Speaker A: I don't feel bad for anybody who comes to my house if they're courteous and conscientious and careful. Oh, my God. Bunch of Cs, right? Or culture, chaos and curiosity. Definitely. Like, I like my Cs. No, I like when people don't bring it up, but still do good work. And then I will give them something. But again, you need cash.
• 28:53
  Speaker B: But. And even when instances you don't like, when I go to the salon, I get my nails done.
• 28:56
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker B: What are you for?
• 28:57
  Speaker A: Mani. Petty. I don't know. I don't even go. I've never gone in my life. And what do you do?
• 29:00
  Speaker B: And so I do, only because, again, it's that social norm. You have to it well. And they probably don't get paid well. And so I will default back that everyone should just get paid. What? They should get paid.
• 29:11
  Speaker A: And at the risk of getting completely canceled right now, most salons have a lot of folks that are of Asian descent. And you just said that culture does not tip. So why do many petty places expect tips if that's where they're like. They've just sort of assimilated into America
• 29:27
  Speaker B: now they know they're serving mostly white women.
• 29:29
  Speaker A: Oh, shit.
• 29:30
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 29:31
  Speaker A: So when you walk in there, when you walk in, they're like, don't take her. Don't take her.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: She won't take me. Yeah, for sure.
• 29:37
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 29:38
  Speaker B: But, yeah, okay.
• 29:38
  Speaker A: But you tip in mani patties.
• 29:40
  Speaker B: I do. Because again, I. I feel bad that they aren't maybe making enough.
• 29:45
  Speaker A: Okay, wait. I have a question, though. If you're manicurist. Is that what they're called? Manicurists? What if they're, like, kind of loose? What if they, like, aren't really that nice to you?
• 29:53
  Speaker B: But, like, oh, I see.
• 29:54
  Speaker A: They're sort of charming. Like, would you still. Would you say thank you very much? You're welcome. Yeah. Anybody who's loose, I don't think they're gonna get them. I'm not gonna lie.
• 30:01
  Speaker B: Well, but socially, we're supposed to.
• 30:03
  Speaker A: Okay, whatever.
• 30:04
  Speaker B: Is it time for fun facts.
• 30:06
  Speaker A: No, not fun facts yet. Whoa, wait, wait. Did we get through everything, do you think? I wish we had, like a call. This would be a good episode for
• 30:12
  Speaker B: like, call Paul and be like, call in.
• 30:14
  Speaker A: Like, call in. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause then they could ask. They could riff more and give us more. Like, what about this one? What about that one?
• 30:18
  Speaker B: I do have a question. So I brought up Australia on, like, how they tip or how they don't tip. I should say, what's the norm? Because you said that this all came.
• 30:24
  Speaker A: Oh, dude, I have internat. Let's do that. I did a little international research so we could be sort of sophisticated. Right, let's go. But it's quick. That's not a lot. Okay. I got like a few of these. France. We're gonna do France first. France is interesting. Okay. So there's a service charge in France called Survey compris. I don't know how to say that. Sorry, Eric. I butchered that whole thing. They usually include it with the bill. And on top of that, if you want to leave like a little extra small change, you can, if you're particularly happy. But like change like, literally the change in your pocket, not like anything else. No, no, no. Right, okay. Italy, similar to France, they call it Coperto. Coperto. A cover charge. And then you can leave it a little extra. So. Same, same. Nothing big. Germany. Germany's easy roundup to the nearest euro. Apparently. I looked up that. Whether I'm right or wrong. I don't know people. I'm just looking up all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. Check the facts out. Right. You actually say something in German. I don't know how to say it. Stimmits. So stimmit. So. Which basically means keep the change. Stimul. And you hand it to them. So they know. Right. It's none of this bullshit that we do where it's like all behind the scenes. Yeah. Australia, to your point, they pay their servers normal living wage, higher than the U.S. tipping exists, but super optional. 10%. Like, if you really love service, that'd be like, the best. I would argue that's probably the best model, I would think. But you sort of said service isn't as good. I've not been to Australia, so I don't know. But like, model wise, in my brain, if you were like, how should we do this? I would think you would try Australia.
• 31:48
  Speaker B: Well, I feel like California is the most, like, similar to that because they do have the highest minimum wage. Right.
• 31:52
  Speaker A: It's stupid.
• 31:53
  Speaker B: And so it's still, whether or not it's low or high.
• 31:56
  Speaker A: I mean, it's $17 almost, for crying out loud.
• 31:59
  Speaker B: But we've now made being a server a career, which I know in, like, some.
• 32:04
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 32:05
  Speaker B: Restaurants, fine dining, that is what is definitely necessary.
• 32:07
  Speaker A: But, well, people could make. People could live off of it before. So we're trying to. We're trying to not lose that. That was. That's the whole concept. You remember Iceland? I looked up Iceland just because we did our episode on Iceland.
• 32:20
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 32:20
  Speaker A: I thought that would be kind of fun. Right?
• 32:22
  Speaker B: Super random.
• 32:22
  Speaker A: So if you haven't listened to our Iceland episode, it was a totally fun episode. Wow. There's a bunch of interesting facts. Yeah. So in Iceland, which, by the way, has some of the best restaurants I've ever read about. I haven't been there yet, had the whole thing planned and then pivoted randomly to Norway. What is that all about? I gotta go to Iceland. Okay. No tipping. None. Zero. Same with Spain, England, Portugal, all the other European nations. None.
• 32:43
  Speaker B: How about Asian? Because I only know my own experience.
• 32:45
  Speaker A: Why don't you go ahead, let us know what they do? And all the. I only know Japan.
• 32:49
  Speaker B: Oh, okay.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: Only Japan. Japan, no tip. They consider it super rude. Yes. Apparently it is a matter of what they call professional pride, which is something you can get.
• 33:00
  Speaker B: Right. We should not go and be like Australia. We should be like the Japanese.
• 33:05
  Speaker A: They. If you tip someone, apparently they didn't do their job right. So you're giving them charity. If you're tipping them, you're giving them charity. They didn't do it right.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: I feel bad for you because we are proud people.
• 33:14
  Speaker A: You're not Japanese. You're making it sound like you're Japanese. You're not even close to Japanese. That's a whole nother country.
• 33:19
  Speaker B: It is, but the Japanese are very proud people. Like, they take. But then you're arguing that I could
• 33:24
  Speaker A: pretend I'm also Canadian. You could pretend I'm also Mexican because I'm in North America. You can't claim you're Japanese.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: I didn't claim I was Japanese.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: You were like my people. You sort of my people. That right there, that was kind of bullshit.
• 33:36
  Speaker B: They're proud people.
• 33:36
  Speaker A: Whatever. You said my people.
• 33:38
  Speaker B: I thought I said they're proud people. But maybe I said my people. I don't know.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: I'll have to check.
• 33:43
  Speaker B: But I meant that they're proud people. Sorry.
• 33:45
  Speaker A: I got it, got it, got it.
• 33:46
  Speaker B: I think we covered, like, all of.
• 33:47
  Speaker A: We didn't cover Africa. I don't know Africa.
• 33:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know.
• 33:50
  Speaker A: Do they tip in Africa? They have restaurants in Africa.
• 33:52
  Speaker B: They do.
• 33:52
  Speaker A: Did I say that out loud?
• 33:54
  Speaker B: Don't say that.
• 33:54
  Speaker A: My bad. Yeah.
• 33:55
  Speaker B: I mean, there's a whole. We didn't cover Russia. We didn't cover a whole bunch of.
• 33:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
• 33:58
  Speaker B: Eastern Europe. I mean, no, it's fine.
• 34:00
  Speaker A: We didn't do East Timor.
• 34:01
  Speaker B: We did good.
• 34:02
  Speaker A: We did Madagascar.
• 34:03
  Speaker B: We tried our best.
• 34:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. B plus Micronesia. Right. Saddlewall.
• 34:07
  Speaker B: We'll just, like, wow everyone else. Fun facts.
• 34:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, Fun facts. Here we go. For tipping. Okay. My. My minimum wage. Federal minimum wage. Number one, here we go. For tipped workers in the United States. Do you know how much money it is?
• 34:18
  Speaker B: Federal minimum wage, $14.
• 34:21
  Speaker A: $2.13. I'm not full of two. Look it up. $2.13. It has not changed since 1991. 30 years.
• 34:28
  Speaker B: What state has that in place?
• 34:30
  Speaker A: $2.13 per hour. A lot of them. A lot of them still have.
• 34:33
  Speaker B: I need to definitely make note of that because then in that case, I agree. 22%. 20% tipping. Fine. Have a good day.
• 34:39
  Speaker A: I don't know the name of the states, but, like, 20 states are still using that. Like, California is insane. We've done away with mint living.
• 34:46
  Speaker B: So, again, if that's the case, I do understand, and I'm all happy. Go for it. I'll tip. Right. No questions asked.
• 34:52
  Speaker A: Right.
• 34:53
  Speaker B: But that's the argument for, I guess, making a minimum wage. That's also why California is one of the most expensive states.
• 34:59
  Speaker A: Right. California, Oregon, Washington. All the West Coasters have figured this out. We're still doing okay. We do have a minimum wage and nobody died. Yeah. So it works. But, yeah, no wonder. Like, it's like Alabama, Mississippi, all these places. Like, what the. Okay, anyway, I couldn't believe that. I literally shit a brick. I, like, double checked that to make sure I was right. It's stupid. And don't get me wrong, there's a rule that if their tips don't equal up to $7.25 an hour, then they get subsidized. The restaurant has to pay them the difference. That's it. Up to $7.25 for a raise. I can't live off that. Okay, number two, there's an actual. Remember I said psychological term. There's a psychological term for this whole thing. The guilt that. That guilt that I feel. Okay, yeah. It's called social facilitation. Yeah, that's it. Social facility, meaning people change their behavior when they think they're being observed. Oh, My God. I do that all the time. I live in a social facilitation bubble. Holy shit. So that's, like, real deliberate application of social psychology right in our faces to
• 35:58
  Speaker B: extract money from us almost every day.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: That's fucked up. Amanda. Okay. Sorry. Number three. The highest single tip ever recorded. One take. Yes. At least the highest one that, like, made the news. Any idea?
• 36:08
  Speaker B: $50,000.
• 36:09
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Way too high. Some guy named Mikhail Sharif from Maryland.
• 36:13
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 36:13
  Speaker A: 2021 left a tip of $16,000 on a $43 check.
• 36:18
  Speaker B: Why?
• 36:18
  Speaker A: I have an idea. Because. Go back to men versus women. Attractiveness. I have an idea.
• 36:27
  Speaker B: A little dessert on the side.
• 36:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
• 36:29
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 36:29
  Speaker A: Well. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And finally, Cornell University hospitality researcher Michael Lynn spent literally his life decades studying tipping behavior. Michael Lynn. You know what we needed? Michael Lynn on the show. That's what we needed. Right. Found out that some things servers do to increase tips. Absolutely nothing to do with service. None. Zero. Okay. You ready for these? Write a smiley face on the check.
• 36:51
  Speaker B: Oh, dude. If someone writes thank you on my check, I will usually tip more.
• 36:55
  Speaker A: Giving the customer a piece of candy. Introducing yourself by name. Squatting down to make eye contact at table level instead of standing over you. Anybody who squats to make eye contact. I'm in. Touching the customer lightly on the shoulder. Wow, look at that. Inappropriate touching. Touching a customer lightly on the shoulder. All of these measurably. Our boy Michael Lynn said measurably. Increase the tip. The food is the same, the service is the same. The smiley face, a piece of hard candy, and suddenly you're tipping 22%. That is absolute bullshit. We are totally irrational. Irrational when it comes to tipping.
• 37:32
  Speaker B: And that is my whole problem. Connection.
• 37:35
  Speaker A: Right.
• 37:35
  Speaker B: And that's all about connection either way. But either way, I see you had
• 37:39
  Speaker A: to do a service, and I'm arguing your point, which is do away. Abolish. Abolish it, please. Okay, that's all I got. Fun facts out. I'm done.
• 37:47
  Speaker B: To recap here.
• 37:48
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 37:48
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 37:48
  Speaker A: I'm so pumped up. You are. I'm sweating. It's like I ran a marathon over here. Recap this shit.
• 37:53
  Speaker B: So recap here. America has been paying servers in not all states, but most states, $2.13 since 1991.
• 38:00
  Speaker A: Kill me now.
• 38:00
  Speaker B: We haven't, like, reevaluated that for no reason. Apparently the iPad screen is literally a psychology experiment being ran on us on real time. And we fail.
• 38:09
  Speaker A: 1984. Yes. Thank you very much.
• 38:11
  Speaker B: All that pressure.
• 38:11
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 38:12
  Speaker B: Some guy In Maryland tipped 16,000 some odd dollars.
• 38:16
  Speaker A: I don't know why we have. We're speculating dessert, right?
• 38:19
  Speaker B: And apparently all it takes to get an extra 5% or so is to draw a smiley face, squat a little, touch someone on the shoulder.
• 38:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, do you remember we went out to restaurant, we were at wherever it was your friend's place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I accidentally touched that server. My kids went bonkers. Like I touched on the elbow. Don't touch her. Don't touch. Literally they're saying if servers touch me, I'm gonna.
• 38:42
  Speaker B: And you might actually.
• 38:43
  Speaker A: That is crazy.
• 38:43
  Speaker B: You probably would.
• 38:44
  Speaker A: Holy shit.
• 38:45
  Speaker B: I could see you doing that.
• 38:45
  Speaker A: That is so bullshit. No, I don't care. Okay, fine.
• 38:48
  Speaker B: All right, well, if you wanna learn more about tipping. What should we do?
• 38:50
  Speaker A: What should you do? You should DM us on Instagram. We'll send you the fun facts and we'll give you the episode summary. Write in your inbox, send us a note. We're happy to oblige. Okay. Actually, there's nothing really to do. This is tipping. What are you supposed to do? So here's what I would say. Number one, I would say just keep talking to people. Like keep the argument going and figuring out where you land on the argument. Because at some point there might be legislation, there might be something like you could really go do. Right? So I would say like, don't.
• 39:11
  Speaker B: Well, especially that $2 thing that needs to happen.
• 39:13
  Speaker A: And this is one of those arguments where you don't have to be angry with the other person about it. You could like be on both sides of the fence. It doesn't even matter. You're just sort of chatting about it to get more insight. So I would do that. And then the one thing I would recommend is go listen to an old NPR through line episode. It's called Land of the Fee. F E E Land of the Fee. Ha ha. Kind of funny, right? They play that. Yeah, you can find it online. Same thing we just did. It's like a 50 minute episode, but it's like way more sophisticated. Gives you more history. Not as chaotic, just sort of like really sort of go through the details of it. So if you care to listen, great. Otherwise just remember these details. It seems sort of sophisticated. Here we go. 1. Tipping in America was never really about generosity. It started as a wage dodge for a post slavery workforce. And it's been propped up by an industry that profits from not paying its workers. The fact that it also produces real moments of genuine human appreciation is true. But that part is almost incidental to how the system was designed. Number two, the guilt screen is not neutral. It's a calculated application of social pressure. There's a name for it. You are not being cheap for noticing it. You are paying attention. Keep paying attention. Three, the standard percentages, 15, 18 and 20% are not laws. They are norms that we invented, then raised after Covid and can be questioned. Thank you to my co host who questions it all the time. Good for you. We should all be like Amanda, tip well for good service, tip less on alcohol, tip the people everybody forgets housekeepers. Use your judgment. You're an adult. Figure it out. Four, the rest of the world has not collapsed because they don't tip 20%. Some of the best hospitality cultures in the world tip nothing and pay their workers properly. We have made a specific political and economic choice here in America and we keep making every time we hit the damn 20% button without thinking about why. I want to be clear. I'm not against tipping. I'm just making the point. We should be more conscientious about it. And finally, the uncomfortable question. Same as always on the show. We always have at least an uncomfortable question or two. Isn't really about the tip at all. It's about what the tip is a stand in for. We built a system that transfers the moral weight of paying workers off corporations onto individual consumers and customers like us and then make us feel guilty when we push back on it. That's it.
• 41:18
  Speaker B: Well, there you have it, dear listeners. Another week, another topic that turns out to be way bigger than what it looked like when we first started.
• 41:24
  Speaker A: Kind of. Right?
• 41:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 41:25
  Speaker A: Okay. I mean a tipping. I didn't think it would be such a big deal. And here we are. I'm sweating.
• 41:29
  Speaker B: We went from medieval Europe to an iPad guilt in about 30 minutes.
• 41:33
  Speaker A: We did.
• 41:33
  Speaker B: Which honestly, that kind of feels right about for them.
• 41:36
  Speaker A: That clocks in right there for the show, right? Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:38
  Speaker B: So if we did our job right today, hopefully we're not leaving you feeling guilty or coerced. We'd like to think we're leaving you with permission. Permission. The next time that the screen flips around and you're holding your card over the reader to like tap it, that you're gonna take one second not to feel bad, but just to make an actual decision instead of it just being a reflex. Was it actually good service? Tip well, was it a drip coffee handed to you over a counter, you decide, does someone clean your hotel room and you never saw their face? Maybe leave $5 on the pillow, Write a little note? I mean we promise it'll make their day. Right?
• 42:10
  Speaker A: Write a little note. I'm gonna add write a little note. That was a good one.
• 42:13
  Speaker B: That's recognition. Write something that's different than what people always do. So, as always, if you like this episode, hit subscribe.
• 42:18
  Speaker A: Subscribe.
• 42:19
  Speaker B: Leave us a review and share it with that one friend who tips 20% on a cup of coffee and then complains they can't afford rent because maybe they shouldn't be tipping 20%. But we're not getting that coffee. But until next time, stay curious, stay generous when it counts, and remember, stop letting a touchscreen tell you who you are.
• 42:34
  Speaker A: Preach it, sister.