Latest / Teaching through Emotions: Teacher Mental Health / “How can I deal with first-day anxiety?” Teacher Anxiety and Managing a Classroom with Confidence

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“How can I deal with first-day anxiety?” Teacher Anxiety and Managing a Classroom with Confidence · Teaching through Emotions: Teacher Mental Health

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, good news.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Apple Podcasts has featured Teaching through Emotions in its New Seasons collection.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, listeners,
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: you are listening to our brand new season four,
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: where each episode features real teachers navigating their school years right now.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Apple Podcasts.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: What a thrill.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you're just finding us, check out previous episodes once you finish listening to this one.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's an episode about being overwhelmed and panicked in the very first weeks
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: of school,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: an episode about rude students,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: and, of course, today's episode about the first day jitters for college faculty.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And more are on the way.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll love them.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you do,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: please leave me a review wherever you listen to let me know what you liked
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: about these episodes.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you believe this podcast helps teachers,
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: then that's the best way to help us reach more people.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ratings and reviews help.
• 0:52
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• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribing to Teaching through Emotions, especially as a paid subscriber, really helps.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to help teachers not just battle burnout,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: but actually thrive in their classrooms with our children.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And thriving teachers foster thriving students.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Your support and loyal listening help make this a reality.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your support.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now let's get back to the episode.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Every teacher remembers the nerves they feel the night before their first day of teaching.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone tells new teachers it gets easier with time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hang in there a few years and that knot in your stomach will go away.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not so sure.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was like,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: this is the semester you don't have to be nervous because I'm up
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: for tenure this year.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So this semester of teaching kind of doesn't matter in the long scheme of things.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think coming off of a long sabbatical,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: like I haven't been in the classroom in over a year and a half.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So do I know how to do this?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I got in my head in some ways, I just felt frantic.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: What I've noticed is that the longer you teach, the harder it gets to admit you're nervous.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to be past it by now, so you keep it quiet.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if anyone is supposed to be past it, it's college professors.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're the experts, the ones at the top of their field.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing rattles them, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, wrong.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: My own sort of internal monologue where I'm like, oh my God, you are sort of frantic right now.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Calm down, get your shit together, focus, don't fiddle with the tech.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: The last thing a professor wants is to look vulnerable.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, where in any school is that allowed, let alone encouraged?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And me,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've had all the training and experience you could ask for and I still lose sleep
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: for days before I give a talk.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then I walk into the room and I have a blast.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Today you're going to hear a group of professors say what they'd never say in a faculty meeting.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a teacher support group,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: a space where vulnerability and honesty are encouraged for any of this to come out.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And once it's out, you can start working with it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is Teaching through Emotions,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: a podcast where real teachers talk about real feelings and bad behaviors
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: from students, colleagues, admin, and parents.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Together, we transform those feelings into relief through a teacher support group.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, crucial teacher support.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Betsy Burris, a teacher educator and psycho coach.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: For the past 20 years,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've helped teachers understand how emotions influence student behavior
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: and teacher mental health.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: In each episode,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: a real teacher brings to their teacher support group
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: a real problem that's really bugging them.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: The group and I break it down, reframe it, and come up with a data-based plan of action.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Then you get to find out how things play out.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get into the episode.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: As always, we start with check-in.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we've got a larger group than last week.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sasha and Claire are here, and so are Chris and Rose.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let us do check-in, everybody.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with Rose.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we are in week two, and I love my giant class.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's always so much to Courtney, but it's really fun.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they share so much, even in front of 100 kids.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so mad I got sick in the second week of the semester.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, really?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Already?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Doing everything I can to take care of myself.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm around a kindergarten there all the time, so I think that's part of it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Rose.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry you're sick.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Rose is in the University School of Education specializing in special education
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: and teaching a broad range of courses.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Next is Chris.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: My first class was today.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: This is my first time teaching the 75-minute block instead of the 50,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: which always felt too short,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: but I was worried that I would never fill 75 minutes, but I did.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, that seems good for day one.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I just felt so excited.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm mostly just riding that high still.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is a visiting professor at a liberal arts college.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's teaching a 300-level geomorphology class,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: the first upper-level geology class she's ever taught.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: And Claire...
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think 9-11,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: somehow the anniversary is hitting me harder this year,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: but it hasn't really transferred into the classroom.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the most obvious thing that might be interesting to unpack a little is
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: that I have a colleague,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: whenever what we're talking about could possibly impact other people,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: one of her main causes of concern is,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: oh, people will complain, students will complain, faculty will complain.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it kind of drives me crazy.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: This TSG took place on 9-11 FYI, hence Claire's melancholy.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sasha.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we had our first classes this week.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: We had what are called organizational meetings.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like mine went okay.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I find that I have a lot of nervous energy at the start of the semester,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: especially for the first interaction with the students.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm always worried I'm going to scare off the students.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like it went okay.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll see if they come back next week.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: After the teachers check in, I always summarize the issues they have brought up as I see them.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, we got your nerves before and during class.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got a colleague who's worried about what other people think.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Chris's worry about class length, 75 versus 50 minutes, is also a great topic.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: In typical Betsy fashion, and maybe in typical professor fashion, I go meta on this last one.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to have time?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to have time and space is interesting to think about.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Really, Betsy?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: What does an eye roll sound like?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: After I summarize the issues on the table, the TSG participants choose what we'll focus on.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think nerves are always interesting to talk about
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: because I don't really get nervous in front of my huge class anymore,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: but I get nervous around the doc students because they're adults as well, you know?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it would be interesting to hear, like, Sasha, your experiences of being nervous.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And also how you spend time in class is interesting, too.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: They both sound good to me.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was going to say,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with all the topics,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: but I think the nervousness,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: it actually dovetails into what I was talking about about time,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: because it's like, I don't feel nervous talking in front of the class, really.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: But in the back of my head, I'm nervous about class going well through that block.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, they feel really related.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: We decide to start with Sasha's experience in her organizational session.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is her first day of class, which is not an ideal way to start the semester.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think there are a couple of things.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe one of them is that I'm coming off of a long sabbatical,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: which was great and wonderful,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: but I think I haven't been in the classroom in over a year and a half.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think some of that is like, do I know how to do this?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Also, perhaps as other people were sort of adding,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm realizing that maybe I got in my head in some ways that I was like,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: this is the semester you don't have to be nervous because I'm up
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: for tenure this year.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: So basically this semester of teaching kind of doesn't matter in the long scheme
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: of things, whether I sort of get tenure or not.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like maybe I just like psyched myself out where I was like, this is going to be fine.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't even matter what happens in the classroom this semester,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: which ended up not being the case.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I really hate the organizational meeting structure.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the ones that I had were allocated 25 minutes and they were back to back.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just felt frantic,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: like going in, trying to sort of just introduce myself, introduce the content.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Students are asking questions about the syllabus.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're asking questions about the assignment.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, the next professor is coming in.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're out of time.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the students are coming up to me and asking me questions,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: but I have to go to my next organizational meeting.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I also just think the structure and I think I had forgotten how kind of frantic that feels.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in the past I had just canceled those organizational meetings and used
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: the first official session as an organizational meeting.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: But then the college started sending these very aggressive like you must have
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: the organizational meeting.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you are not there, you must find another faculty to do it for you.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that just amped up the sense of like, I have to get through all of this material.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's no way I'm going to get through it in 25 minutes.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that the students are going to ask me a bunch of questions.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so some background.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: In Sasha's and Chris's school,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: classes begin on Thursday,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: but not all classes meet on Thursday or the next day, Friday.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Those classes that normally meet earlier in the week have to meet for
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: an organizational meeting of 25 minutes on the Thursday or Friday of the first week
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: of school.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: The reason,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sasha tells the group,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: is basically it's supposed to get students who are still shopping for classes
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: an opportunity to sort of see what this class is about,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: ask you if there are spaces available,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: the students see the syllabus and find out what the expectations are.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: As Sasha says,
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: 25 minutes isn't enough time to do really anything but incubate anxiety,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: both the teachers and the students, not to mention other potential snafus like...
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: They gave us the wrong room for the lecture.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So they gave us the seminar room for the lecture.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the students had nowhere to sit.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: So now that I say it,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I perhaps now understand why the nerves were kind of amping up,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: amping up, because I feel like when I walked into the room, I was calm.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then I saw the room and things started to go off the rails.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God, there's always something.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many ways,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: when the conditions are not ideal to begin with,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: that classes can quickly go off the rails, as Sasha puts it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: It must be a law of some kind.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Subpar conditions breed subpar experience.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just made that up.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty good, eh?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: But not so fast.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: In a TSG,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: we ask questions before we diagnose the issue,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: and the group's questions turn up something Sasha hadn't mentioned at all.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Theoretically, you could make the 25 minutes your own on your own terms.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think for what I wanted to do in the 25 minutes was go over the syllabus,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: but my syllabi tend to be like six, seven pages, and then show them the canvas.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was a mix of kind of those two things and try and head off some
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And usually it's like, oh, I'm skipping over this.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Read it on your own time.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm skipping over this.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Read it on your own time.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody raises a hand.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what about this?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that was part of the thing that I said that you're going to have to read
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: in your own time because we, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, so yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: So ideally I could walk in and say, hi, I'm Professor.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the syllabus.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'll see you all next week.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then...
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: No problem, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to tell them or do anything else with them.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think I try and say, okay, I'll give them some sense of the class.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I think once I launch into that, then the questions come.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what is the final going to look like?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll talk about the final later.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: But what about the midterm?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Should we be thinking about the, where can I buy the book again?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Where can, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like you open the box to say,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: this is just a quick review of some of the major points of the syllabus.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then that becomes like,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: You can get so planned for something and be so clear in your own head,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: but you don't know until you have the students in front of you what it's going
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: to feel like.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can't plan for that.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a response in the moment.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something at the beginning of my semesters in particular,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: but if before I plan a class that's like a different style or something,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: I have to say to myself at one point, you can't plan anymore.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to see what happens once you go.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't do well with that energy beforehand.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like waiting to play a basketball game.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm nervous until it starts, and then I'm like, okay, I know how to do this.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Rose takes a different angle on a potential cause of Sasha's discomfort.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really common issue for college and university faculty.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question, too, about something.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You said students can shop around for classes still and everything, and that's part of it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So do you feel pressure to, like,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Get students to sign up for your class or get certain enrollment numbers,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: because I think that is also something that I feel if I'm not teaching it well
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: or something and too many students drop the class and then that looks bad on me
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: or something.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just wondering how that played into it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely feel,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: and this is referred to as the gateway class into environmental studies.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a lot of conversation of like, you got to get them early and you got to get them.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there is some of that, even though the class is actually over enrolled.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So in some ways,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: like if students drop, it's good for me because it's over capacity at this point.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we want students to be passionate about environmental studies.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So like get them with the first class and make it entertaining.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: that same thing with my class is supposed to be like the recruitment class
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: for special ed majors, basically.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is it fair to say, I mean,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm writing down a bunch of words, but one of them that occurs to me is popularity.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: what you're talking about now in gateway classes or intro classes is the pressure
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: to actually attract students,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: not just to your course,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: but to your major, to your department, which implies that You'd better be popular.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a fair way to describe a source of this anxiety?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think I do want students to,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: like me and my classes,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: not become the most sort of popular professor on campus, but to offer a class.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's also,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: maybe others have this up their institution, there's something called FactTrack.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Which is an internal Rate My Professor website that was developed by the students.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of students pick their classes based on what appears on FactTrack.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: But faculty do not have access to FactTrack.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you never know what is actually on the fact track about you,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: but you will hear from students,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: oh, I saw on fact track and decided to take this class.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Usually they don't tell you, I saw on fact track and decided not to take your class, but...
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's always been a kind of shadow hanging over the seven years
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: that I've been here,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: that there's this mythical thing where the students are rating all of the faculty.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And based on what the rating is, that's how they then decide their classes.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And even for first years,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: because the intro class is mostly first years,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: they are introduced to FactTrack when they arrive.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they are encouraged to look at the FactTrack ratings before they make choices
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: about their classes.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So there is that structural thing that's
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: always been there.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I taught 100 levels both semesters.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And last year was my first year teaching.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that second one, it was sort of word of mouth.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: But also there's just this influx of people being like, I'm coming to take your class.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, sure,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: it's sort of,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: you know, gets the majors in or people who are interested in geoscience.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a not normal amount of people coming in.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: How have you heard of me?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: What is this?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's so interesting.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: You got the bump.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a compliment.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's weird.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: What's the justification on the university's part to keep it hidden from faculty?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's the weirdest part of it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't have any problem if it were an internal system and everyone has access to
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: the results.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it seems like it would be a very helpful thing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: But it almost seems like a system where students can...
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is it qualitatively maybe?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Also with comments?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like a comment section that nobody else gets to see,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: even if it's about you and it's sanctioned by your employer.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had been told by the dean of the college that it is student-run.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the students took it upon themselves to develop this.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was a kind of organic thing that the students did.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then it just became the thing that circulates amongst the students.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: But no faculty, including the upper echelons, have access to this thing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a student-run.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have student evaluations that matter for tenure.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have like rate my professor that people reference to me.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I try not to look at it because it's nice stuff,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: but it's the way they talk about me is super gendered and annoying.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: like internal conversations and then faculty talk about each other and you have
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: to get peer observations.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just any kind of teaching is vulnerable,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: but there is a piece to it that's like, Yeah, that popularity piece.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then also students are paying for these classes and they're not paying for classes at K-12.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they are consumers on some level.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, it's messy.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: But man, I am glad our institution does not have an internal one as far as I know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would know about it because the students would tell me for sure.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that's just another layer that, man,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry you guys have that actually.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say that it feels very student-centric in a way that sounds familiar.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta stop right here.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've never actually thought of the Academy this way before,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: but in truth, it is a hotbed of competition.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Not just intellectual competition,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: jockeying to get that article published and cited a billion times,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: that's obvious,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: but like economic competition,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: supply and demand for classes and in particular faculty.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm a psycho kind of gal,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested in the sub or unconscious effects
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: that this additional competitive environment has on faculty.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: If a department doesn't get enough majors or if
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: a professor doesn't get huge enrollments, what does that mean about them?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: How judgmental are they about themselves or about others?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: All this to say, it seems like college teaching is a bit of a popularity contest.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, fact track?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: No pressure or anything.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what's wild is that students are holding the reins on all this.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Students can have a great deal of power on particular campuses.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's truer on college campuses and university campuses,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: but this,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: as you were saying, Rose,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: the power that students have over faculty reputations and whether
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: or not they get tenure is pretty striking to me.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that they,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: at least in some places,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: they tend to have this power that they're not held accountable for anything
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: that they say or do in these evaluations blows my mind, frankly.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a bit of a pet peeve for me, actually.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: When students' evaluations of faculty are so untethered
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: to any pedagogical standards like learning objectives
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: or how many assignments students missed or basically whether
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: or not students carried out their responsibilities in the course,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: when students' evaluations are all about the teacher without any accountability for
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: the student, those evaluations are crapshoots or maybe just crap.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because if that's not a recipe for a popularity contest, then I don't know what is.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Evaluations too easily become, did you like this teacher?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you like this course?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of, how have you changed as a result of taking this course?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: What learning objectives did you attain?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: What helped you attain them?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Questions that would yield information a professor could actually use.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: All right, end of rant.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And my opinion doesn't help Sasha anyway, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because she still has to walk into her classroom next week.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Remember how frantic and,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: let's face it, unforgiving of herself Sasha was during her organizational meeting?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just talking about popularity gets us to this question, which is,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: What it is for each of us, each of you, that starts moving you out of your body.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you find yourself being frantic,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I could imagine our talking about how to get back,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: how to get back into our bodies,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: that we are actually present again and dealing with reality.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And in your case, Sasha, the reality was this is the wrong room.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have enough time to do what I planned to do, and I don't want to do it anyway.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm thrown off because we have to worry about packing all these people into this tiny room.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the roller coaster of things that I can't control has begun.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have to keep the psychodynamic in mind.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is, what happens within and between human bodies and relationship.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's the value that TSGs add that I don't think teachers can get anywhere else,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: except maybe in a therapy office.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: How to get yourself back into your body to start looking at the reality and dealing
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: with the reality in front of you so that you're not frantic but are actually able
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: to do what's right given the thing that just happened and do what's right given
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: the thing that just then happened.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the difference between being in your body,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: being pulled out of your body,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: and then what about getting back into your body
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: if anyone has had any experience doing that?
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• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, back to the episode.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for me,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: in the classroom specifically,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: like when students are,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: if they're whispering or talking, And I can't hear what they're saying.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: And even if they're talking about the content, I have no idea what they're saying.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: That really pulls me out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh no, they hate me.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is game over.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or if something lands flat and no one either laughs or is excited and engaged,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: both of those things, I'm like, melt into the floor.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I can come back by kind of asking a question and remembering silence is okay.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I can wait for them to...
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: I take back control by putting a question on them of something
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: about what I just
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: said or anything like that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I often say to teachers, you know what?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're standing in front of a sea of faces,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: and you don't know what's happening behind those faces.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you ask them, they might be lying to you.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You just can never, ever know what's going on inside anybody else.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're faced with 30 of them or 100 of them, as you are, Rose...
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: It is so easy to make assumptions about what's happening in there.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all about our psychic structure and our assumptions that we have
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: to be utterly entertaining or they're talking about us when they could be talking
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: about what you just said or the party last night.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: this is a huge source of anxiety that I think is just structurally inescapable in
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: a classroom.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts about that?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: I get thrown off, like, to do with my teaching skill set.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have a very high level of confidence to do with a lot of it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: But if I find myself in a situation where there's something to do with the structure
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: of the situation that doesn't let me showcase where I'm actually at my best...
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: The confidence, like it goes away, not entirely, but I don't feel in it.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that's what you're talking about.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm part of who I am as my best teacher self.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I feel like everything's kind of integrated when I'm at my best and
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: when I'm somehow negotiating between me at my best and the confines
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: that are somehow put onto me.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: I lose something, trying to reconcile where there's a difference or like a gap.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: But that's what I was thinking of when Sasha was talking before of like,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: you know, your course, you know what you're doing.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: You have a solid track record.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: You appear to me to probably be a wonderful instructor.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: But what was the confines?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like what was happening where the structure of what you were asked
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: to do didn't line up with who you are at your best.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate that question, Claire.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, yeah, a lot of the things that were shared are things that came up.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Chris, I also appreciate, like, the faces.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there are moments when I was going through some of the content where...
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: I am anticipating certain kinds of pushback and I think those also amplify.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: So the specific one where the faces are like seared into my mind is
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: when I said my AI policy and I saw a couple of wide eyes.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I saw a couple of very deliberate turns and looking to other students.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I still am just really unsure what we are supposed to be doing with all
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: of the AI stuff.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's been no real senior guidance at our institution.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just making things up as I go.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like in that moment...
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: There was a kind of loss of integrity in some ways because I don't feel confident
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: in what the policy should be with regards to AI in my class.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the students could tell I was bluffing or sort of uncertain
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: about this particular standard that I've set because it just feels like maybe
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: a good standard, but I don't know how it's enforceable.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: that sort of thinking about the things that take you out of your best self,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think Wrong room,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: having students who are sort of unhappy about the fact that they can't really see
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: the slides,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: can't really see,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: don't really fit,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: it feels awkward,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: feeling rushed,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: sort of doing too much with the syllabus,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: but then also trying to field questions
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: because students feel like I haven't told them enough about the class.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then Betsy,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: what you said about that sense of being out of your body,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: like my own sort of internal monologue where I'm like, oh my God, you are sort
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Calm down.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Get your shit together.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Focus.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Don't fiddle with the tech.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just, yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was just going to say that I resonate deeply with the AI policy.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: I did a talk in the meeting today of let's co-create an agreement,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: but that erosion of trust and me as the one kind of in control,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: oh my god, it felt bad.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: There weren't like eye rolls necessarily, but people have strong feelings.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't sure how to co-create an agreement for everyone.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I really resonate with that struggle in taking me out of my body.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I fully endorse the idea of co-creating an agreement.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so curious about what made it hard.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because the students are unwilling to discuss it?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, they want to discuss it, but there's conflicting ideas.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: The students who are really like,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: it's not fair to be using this or like their own reasons and me coming in saying,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: well, I'm going to allow it in some cases.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like those students felt undermined.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me think that these kinds of conversations might be helpful if you set up.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: These are the constraints within which we're having this discussion.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a question of whether or not AI is good or bad,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: whether or not we should get rid of it entirely.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: These are the constraints of this course.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because the question I would ask is, who polices it then?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not use AI at all.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Who polices that?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens to the people who want to use AI and are now tempted to just use it?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Am I supposed to dig up whether or not they've used AI?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a kind of interesting constraint to throw back at them that I would love
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: to hear them talk about.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we did.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was a cool conversation in the end,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: but that lack of confidence that I'm not
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: on firm ground myself definitely takes me out of my body.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, lack of confidence takes us out of our bodies because we stop being ourselves
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: and start worrying about everybody else.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are they thinking?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: What do they think is right?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm not sure myself.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating that AI brings up insecurity in both Sasha and Chris.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it makes complete sense.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know what the policy is,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: and you can't figure out how to thread the needle among strong student preferences,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: and you yourself use AI sometimes but not other times, it's complicated.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, listener, what do you do with AI in your classroom?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Leave a comment so we can all benefit from your experience and wisdom.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So can we talk about what it would mean in a frantic moment or in
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: a discussion that's going in a direction that you can't control,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: obviously,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: and you're not sure how to gauge it,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: and you're not super sure of your own position, where to go next?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the question of just running a discussion, which to me is one of the most obvious.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely examples of what I would call the edge of chaos,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: where the communication is just flying around, but you are not in control.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a matter of co-created energy, energetic popping and connecting.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: But managing that kind of enthusiasm,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: how to pull that back, how to keep it together without going out of body.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested in how you guys do it.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in those moments, there's so many different types of moments.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about a few of them today where you can go out of body and go frantic
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: or feel uncertain or insecure.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys do to come back in the moment if you do?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you just spend the rest of the period just kind of slipping and sliding away?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: I've had different experiences over the years.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: What I'm about to say isn't like, oh, I always do this and it's perfect.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I really find that as an authority figure,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: if I level with students, it helps me get back, right?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm like, wait a minute, this conversation is throwing me off a little bit.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know that once I acknowledge the thing that's like the elephant in the room,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: maybe it's just the elephant for me and they don't even see it,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: but it helps me to say it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that really is a nice approach to centering.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I mean by reality.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think to stop and say, this is what's true for me right now.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do that if you haven't gotten back in your body, if you haven't become present.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I do love the idea of exercising whatever muscles it takes
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: to bring yourself back to the moment
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: where you can actually describe reality right now.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you can't describe everyone's reality.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: You would have to describe your own reality.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: But that will also help the students align and be there with you as you,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: since you're the leader,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: you're the crucial node in that network for you to be honest about what's happening
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: for you.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you can be centered and grounded,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: that's going to help everybody else get centered and grounded.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can say it out loud,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: now it becomes a topic of conversation that everyone can work with.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's about reality.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about the roller coaster, which is really just an emotional ride, basically.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I love emotions, but that's not where you want to be.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be on an emotional ride when you're teaching.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Rose puts a fine point on it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've gone in a lot of different places in this conversation,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm thinking about just vulnerability and that that's a lot
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: of times what throws people off.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, one of the things that throws me off is teaching my giant class.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: When the students speak up in front of the giant class and they say something
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: that is a little like,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: oh, do I need to correct that in the moment in front of everyone?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to talk to them after?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to ask them to follow up with the risk that they're going
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: to say another thing that's a little...
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's where I get out of my head sometimes.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how that relates exactly to all this,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: but I think it relates to the AI too,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: in that it's like,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: we don't know what the right answers are 100% on AI,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: because we haven't Had enough data.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe we have, but it's so new that it's hard to kind of gauge where we're at with it.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some of the things that they bring up,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know exactly where my stance is on the questions that they're asking
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: about disability specifically because I'm not disabled and a lot of them are.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think vulnerability is part of it too that comes up for me.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's just what I'm kind of resonating with.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love that example of what do you do when someone has said something that Needs
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: a response,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's something it's incorrect,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: completely incorrect, or it's a little off kilter or inappropriate.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do with that human out there?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like Chris, you were saying on AI, they have very different beliefs.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like people in my class have very different beliefs about the nature of disability
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: and those beliefs sometimes clash.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: But because it's not a small discussion, we can't really dig into it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to put them on the spot in front of each other to either.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it puts you in a situation too where it's like the train metaphor, right?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like somebody's put you in charge of the tracks
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: because somebody says something that's,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: depending on what it is,
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: that's like somehow off kilter and maybe beyond just the content is wrong and it's
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: in your role as a teacher to be like,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: actually, the answer is B and this is why, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: But it puts you in a position because do you let it go?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's like an act of not responding.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have a game plan to talk about potentially
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: the most charged thing that's happened in your class all semester.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to make a decision.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: There's no way to opt out.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which also kind of brings up another definition of being present,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: and that is being able to slow down, breathe, and think on your feet.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a researcher that calls it reflecting in action versus reflecting on action.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in teaching, we talk a lot about reflecting on action.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Reflective practitioners think about what they did and what happened in class.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: But reflecting in action is when you do it in the moment.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be really difficult.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: But this is one of the reasons I like this topic of thinking about how
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: to be present,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: because the only way to think on your feet,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: unless you're just so good at it that it happens automatically and you're like,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: you're really funny, you're,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: you get into a repartee or,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: but when students are throwing you curveballs right and left,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: or if they throw you one curveball,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: To actually be able to bring yourself back to center
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: and do what you described earlier, Claire,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: which is to say, OK, wait,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: that actually threw me for a loop or I'm not really sure what to say
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: that comment.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have to think about it and I'm going to ask you, young person, to come talk to me.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we can kind of, you know, hash it out.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it requires that you stop either the emotional rollercoaster or the kind
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: of planned rollercoaster like this,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: what we're doing,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: the train,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: your plan for the day and stop,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: bring it together,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: breathe and actually be present in that moment,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is a lovely, lovely skill.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's complicated to talk about because there's so many sources and
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: so many ways that students can throw us,
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: that rooms can throw us, that we can throw us.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I do love the idea of exercising the ability to stop and breathe
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: and bring it back to yourself and then figure out what's happening in reality
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: and what you're going to do about that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it will have an impact on your students.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: A couple things.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: One, responding to students when they've given incorrect or inappropriate answers.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is, responding to the reality in the classroom.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: The social element that Rose and Claire talk about is tricky, of course.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Rose wonders if and how to call a student out in public.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Claire comments on the bizarre pressure the need to correct students puts
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: on teachers because we have to respond somehow.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Psychoanalytic theory helps me in this case.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's this concept called mirroring that one theorist,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Tynes Kohut,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: who founded the school called Self Psychology,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: considers crucial to healthy development.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Mirroring is exactly how it sounds,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: holding up a mirror to,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: in this case,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: your student, without judgment or shame or evaluation of any kind, just describing.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think mirroring is really helpful when thinking about responding
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: to incorrect answers because students really need to know when they're wrong.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, what are we doing here?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: But when to hold up that mirror in class and office hours and how to craft it,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: what words and tone do you use,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: especially as students aren't used to being held accountable in this way,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: can require thought and planning.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Second, and this one's quick,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: the guy who wrote about reflecting in action and reflecting
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: on action is Donald Schoen.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: He published a book in 1983 called The Reflective Practitioner,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: How Professionals Think in Action.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Really worth checking out.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'll link it in the show notes.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's time for takeaways.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask if anyone has anything concrete to share,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: like what you want to try tomorrow or what you've brought
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: from this conversation that's actually a concrete idea or perspective
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: that you will bring along with you?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: It helps to say it out loud because then it might actually make it something you can try.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm just going to notice a little more when I get thrown this week and try
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: and think about the reasons for it.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Just notice.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: I notice the more frantic the, yeah, the idea is to speed up.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to try and actually work in the opposite direction, slow down a bit.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: That is so great.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I feel like to just get through my class, if I'm like, I have a lot of things to do.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've taught this class a zillion times.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just take a breath and go under and kind of go through the motions.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm good at it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like if somebody were to perceive me, they'd say like, oh, she's doing a great job.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm not really there either.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: So just playing around with like, hey, look what the students are doing, though.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just what you're going through the motions like this is
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: the first time they've done this.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Look at what they're doing and seeing it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I'm going to think about the triggers of anxiety also even in my prep,
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: because I find that I bring that then into the classroom
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: if I really feel like I'm winging it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: I want to notice that a bit more.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thoughts before we end?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just say thank you.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: That was really affirming and reassuring.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you all.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is really nice.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to be here.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Rose was right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: We covered a lot of territory in this TSG.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pull the beginning and the end together,
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: though, from Sasha's franticness to her decision to take stock and slow down.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Here's my axiom for this episode.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Notice.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just notice.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: I talk to my clients about this all the time.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're having difficulty in a situation or a relationship,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: the tendency can be to jump in,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: speed up,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: do something,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: to stay on the emotional roller coaster and react based on those emotions,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: which often just accelerates the crazy ride.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Slowing down and noticing gets you back in your garden,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: back in your body, where you can take some control over yourself.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: The beauty of this axiom, just notice, is it means you don't have to do anything.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to change or try something different or make yourself uncomfortable
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: or take a huge relational risk.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: All you have to do is notice, pay attention to your outsides and to your innards.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Noticing means stopping, breathing, and importantly, detaching.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Not riding the roller coaster, but getting off and, I don't know, watching the cart careen away.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing it,
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: wondering about it,
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: and making deliberate decisions about where you want to go from here.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Noticing can be such a quiet, private act.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it because it keeps me in my garden,
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: in my body, in my own mind, and out of everyone else's.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: It stills me.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me feel safe and present and in control of myself.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: It allows me to listen,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: to attend to others and myself,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: which gives me potentially a lot of data that can help me figure out what's going on
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: in this moment,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: either right now in this moment,
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: reflecting in action, or later when I have time to reflect on the moment.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: You got it, reflecting on actions.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see how noticing worked for Sasha.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I caught up with her about a month after this TSG, which gave her a lot of time to notice.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: You were talking about your organizational meeting and how all this shit was piling
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: on and you just got frantic.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I remember.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is,
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: your decision after that TSG was to just try to slow it down and get in your body
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: and just become, I guess, aware and make deliberate decisions.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Has the need for that come up again?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, have you been able to slow down and make a difference for yourself?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think yes, sometimes.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I notice that that sense of being disembodied will sometimes reappear
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: if we're doing the harder section where it's clear that the students have a lot
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: of questions or they're struggling and I'll find myself wanting to like speed up
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: and sort of word salad.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've, again,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: tried to practice some of the things that we talked about in the session,
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: just kind of be like,
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: remember you were in the room,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: you were physically here, like deliberately slowing the pacing of my talking.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a kind of,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say it's every class that I have to remind myself,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: but I think in classes where I can feel maybe the sort of frustration
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: or anxiety feeling,
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah,
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: trying to sort of workshop, okay,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: when things are going well and it feels grounded,
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: like what's happening in the classroom?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: What are the messages that I'm getting directly or indirectly from the students?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said because what you're describing is what I call body snatching.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: When you say you pick up on the tension in the students or the anxiety
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: or their uncertainty or they're not knowing and you start needing to speed up,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: your body gets snatched, taken over by their anxiety.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you respond to their anxiety in a way that is out of body because you're actually...
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like a cocoon for someone else's anxiety.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so the antidote is absolutely to get back in your body and to slow it down and
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: to breathe and to recognize that that's their emotion.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my emotion.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's another step that might help.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: You obviously get it because you just said it to me.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: But another step in that sequence when you're in the classroom in the room would be
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: to say, this is not my anxiety.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's their anxiety.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so compassion, they're feeling anxious.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: What they need is for me to slow down and really take it step by step or ask them,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: okay, what are you not getting or whatever.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Another sign that you are being body snatched
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: or you're getting other people's emotions implanted in you is that
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: when everything's going well,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: when it's rocking and rolling and they know what they're doing and you sense
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: that too, you don't need to get anxious.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to be super deliberate or conscious
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: because you guys are working together without feeling any spikes of emotion.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you perceive their spiked emotion and then...
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have to control yourself or restrain yourself from actually getting on
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: the runaway train with them.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it does.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: I like the phrasing of body snatching and getting taken over by the train
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: because it's like, oh, here we go.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's great news.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll keep tabs on it in future meetings.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a really good discipline.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So let's recap what you can take away from this episode and apply in your own classrooms.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, while we're on the topic, beware of body snatching.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it happens all the time,
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: especially if you're sensitive to students' emotions or are empathic
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: or find yourself in a high-stress situation,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: which classrooms can sometimes or even often be.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: When you feel strong emotion,
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: especially from out of the blue,
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: chances are someone is implanting their strong emotions in you.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: How to get out of the situation?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: It can help to differentiate for yourself which emotions,
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: if any, are yours and which are theirs.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: For the emotions that are theirs, put them on the table in front of you and look at them.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Get curious about them.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Notice them.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: What are those emotions telling you about your students?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: What can you do and what can they do with and about them?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: What can you not do and what can they not do with and about them?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: For those emotions that are yours, same thing.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: What are they telling you about you?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: What can you do with and about them?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: 2.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Being in your body.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: You really can't beat it.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Our bodies know so much.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: If we're not in there paying attention and reflecting on what we notice,
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: then we could be in for much louder communications,
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: like stomach aches or unhealthy cravings or depression.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Noticing when you're out of body is important,
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: and making your body,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: your garden as I call it,
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: a safe and comfortable place for you to be is also super important.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, of course, notice.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Try it for yourself this week.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do you pick up on?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you suppose you picked up on those things?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our show for today, folks.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode or learned something useful,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: leave a comment on Substack or a review on the app you're listening on.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And share it with your friends.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: It helps so much.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: At the very least, it warms my heart to hear from you.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of heartwarming,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: stay tuned for our next episode, which is about a passel of disruptive boys.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh boy, literally.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: As always, thanks for listening.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to the teacher who shared their story and to the group for participating.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: If this story hit close to home,
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: you can get in touch with me to learn more about TSGs and even request one
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: for your school, college, or university.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can email me at Betsy at teachingthroughemotions.com.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you found a takeaway,
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: a question,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: or an idea useful,
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: subscribe to Teaching through Emotions wherever you get your podcasts.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And please drop us a review.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: It will let other teachers know that this podcast brings real support.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: For more tools and resources to support your teaching,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: head to my substack, teachingthroughemotions.com, also linked in the show notes.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: There, you can get all the resources to fix your school year before anything hits the fan.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find out what type of teacher you are.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you an empath, a chaos warrior, or maybe the nice guy?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Head to teachingthroughemotions.com to take the quiz and send it to a fellow teacher.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Compare notes.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Teaching through Emotions is a podvision production.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Executive producer is Julian Androkae.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Editing is done by Jasper Chua.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Audience development by Andrea Kosky.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Theme music by Tom Burris of Jabbering Trout.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Interstitial music by Grammy award-winning Brad Wells.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Teaching through Emotions is a reader-supported publication.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: To receive weekly support and relief,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: consider becoming a free or paid subscriber at teachingthroughemotions.com.
• 48:10
  [music]