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Halloween III: Season of the Witch · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
0:35
It's not so different now. It's time again.
0:41
In the end, we don't decide these things, you know. The planets do.
0:50
Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!
0:54
Music.
1:01
I was going to go on a... Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop,
1:04
boop, boop. Sorry, what? Star Wars? Is that lasers or something? It's pew, pew.
1:08
It's boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Silver Shamrock.
1:13
Silver Shamrock. Hey, guys. We wanted to pepper in a little extra one for you
1:18
because you've been so patient with us trying to get Smile 2 out and the Beetlejuices and so forth.
1:24
So what better way to do that on Halloween night and give it to you on Halloween
1:29
night, Halloween 3, Season of the Witch.
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Now, I bring this one up because when I last talked about it.
1:39
There's something about this film that has replay value.
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And what I mean by that, it's one of the only films, cult films,
1:45
when they first come out, nobody really likes them. They don't do well in the box office.
1:50
Then they hit video. Well, that wasn't too bad. Then they hit DVD.
1:54
Actually, that's a lot better than I thought. Then they hit,
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and so forth and so forth. They become cult classics over time.
2:00
Yes, and that's what the term, that's what kind of what defines you as called classic.
2:05
This I would put up there now. Now, when Halloween 3, Season of the Witch initially came out, I hated it.
2:11
I hated it so much, and there's one reason.
2:14
Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, absolutely terrible marketing by calling this Halloween 3.
2:19
Now, the side story is it was going to be called Season of the Witch,
2:25
but George Romero has a film that's a horror film called Season of the Witch. Yes.
2:30
So they couldn't use it. The thing is, I would say that titles aren't copyrighted,
2:35
so it was more of a courtesy, I think, to George Romero.
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Also, they wouldn't have wanted it to be confused with his one as well.
2:42
Yeah, I don't think it's a courtesy. I think it's just, yeah, you don't want to...
2:47
Yeah, you don't want people to get confused. That's pretty much what it boils down to.
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But Carpenter always had this idea of Halloween being an anthology series,
2:57
which I actually wouldn't have worked.
2:59
But since they made Halloween 2, it really can't have an anthology series with the title Halloween.
3:05
Because once you make one and two of Halloween, you can't do an anthology.
3:08
You know what I'm saying?
3:09
It kind of defeats the purpose. Film fans, mainstream audiences wouldn't have got it.
3:13
They didn't get this because of the simple fact. Well, the main reason is because
3:17
Michael Myers wasn't there.
3:19
Yeah, and then they're right, and they would be completely right. They were cheated.
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Carpenter came up with this idea, and we found out about it like a couple years
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later after it got released.
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So I don't know if there's truth behind it or not. Now, it does certainly play
3:34
fan service to Halloween, and we'll certainly dive into that.
3:37
But I can understand people's upset about that, and I would be upset about it.
3:44
You were upset? And I was upset, exactly.
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I didn't revisit this film for years. And then, God, in the mid-90s, I watched it again.
3:54
And I was all right. And then as I became, I watched it again,
3:59
and I got further away from the it's not a Halloween film point of view,
4:05
it seemed to kind of like, you know what?
4:07
This plays like a fun little, you know, Twilight Zone.
4:11
Wow. And, you know. But, and then I saw just recently, we just talked about
4:16
it this year, Carpenter's film, They Live. Yes.
4:21
Now, the reason I bring up They Live, and no fans don't come after you for this
4:26
one, but in a way, They Live is corny, cheesy, good, be, slock, fun.
4:35
Agreed. It's exactly what it is. And this is exactly what Halloween 3 Season of the Witch is.
4:40
I'm going to sound like a smug arsehole here but
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i have always been a fan of halloween 3 ever since
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i was a kid and first saw it on tv it just
4:49
really hits home with me and there's
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you know certain scenes which we'll talk about have stuck with me since i first
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saw it all those years ago talking maybe near 40 years ago i know it was released
5:01
in 82 i probably would have saw it maybe around 85 or so when it was shown on
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tv maybe 85 86 or so but there are certain scenes here and this film has always stayed with me,
5:11
and I mean that in the most complimentary of ways.
5:15
Yeah, we'll stay with a lot of people. Maybe not for the positive, some for the negative.
5:22
All positive for me. I mean, I'm not saying it's a perfect film,
5:24
but I have always had a big heart for this film. Now...
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This is still in the Halloween family. Everyone involved in this had some say
5:36
or some kind of credit within the Halloween universe, especially Halloween 1.
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Tom Lee Wallace, the director, first started on Halloween, is produced by Carpenter,
5:46
produced by Deborah Hill, produced by De La Dorentis, produced by Mustafa Akkad, and Yablins.
5:53
So the entire family is back. It's actually written by Carpenter and Tom Lee
5:57
based on the material by Nigel Neal. Yes, the famous Nigel Neal.
6:02
Nigel Neal has got pretty impressive street cred. I didn't know who he was until I read up on him.
6:07
He did ask his name to be removed because he didn't like the violence,
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the violent direction that the film took.
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Nigel Neal is very famous in Britain for the likes of Quatermass,
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you know, the series, and also in the films as well, and also the likes of the Stone Tape.
6:22
He also wrote the 1989 TV version of The Woman in Black, you know,
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based on the novel. Yeah, it's actually a lot better than the recent remake with Harry Potter.
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I like the remake, but I think the Nigel Neal 89 version is a lot better,
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obviously based on the novel by Susan.
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There's a scene in the original TV one where he's in the bedroom and she comes
6:51
out of the corner and screaming at him. Fucking terrifying.
6:55
Well, Neal's stuff was always very, I know that was based on a novel,
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but his stuff was always folky, horror, very British, subtle, you know?
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So, you know, this is, there's so much, so many elements, obviously,
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of Halloween 3 that are very Nigel-esque,
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if you know what I mean, in terms of, you know, like the stuff about Stonehenge
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and stuff, and, you know, this whole folk, these days this would be considered a folk horror.
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Yeah, I don't like folk horror, but you don't have to. Either way.
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But this is like proper folk horror, where it actually goes back to the roots,
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and it's dark as hell, the story.
7:34
The actual very dark roots of Samhain, as it's correctly known as here, a.k.a. Halloween.
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Samhain. Well, that's, yeah, that's how it's sort of written,
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but it's pronounced... It's the American pronunciation.
7:48
Yeah, but it's pronounced Samhain here by Colonel Cochran.
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The old man from... If Colonel Cochran says it, then it's real.
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Well, he's a fucking warlock. He should know. You know what I mean?
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So, yeah, you got John Carpenter back doing the score with Ellen Howarth.
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This is when he started teaming up with him. I think he teamed up with him initially
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in the Halloween 2 score.
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Love the score on this. It's very fun. Yep. Very playful and creepy.
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And initially, Joe Dante was going to direct this. Yes, I read that.
8:19
That would have been kind of fun. I love Joe Dante's stuff. At the time,
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he was hot from Piranha and the Howling, and then he went on to do Gremlins. Yes.
8:27
But it would have been nice to see his take on this.
8:31
It's nice to see we got Dick Warlock back. He played Michael Myers in Halloween
8:35
2. He's the main robot guy. Yep.
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You got Jamie Lee Curtis voice all over the place.
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You got the Halloween trailer put into it and the Halloween movie playing in the background.
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Michael Myers has a very small coming. Even the tagline is similar to Halloween,
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which is obviously the original tagline for Halloween was The Night He Came Home.
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This one's called The Night No One Came Home.
9:00
Yeah. exactly which i kind of like yeah but
9:03
they can they kind of have to be home in order for their plan to work
9:06
well yeah but but they
9:09
well well you know you could
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argue the ending which we'll obviously get to is left
9:14
sort of open to interpretation of whether you know
9:17
do they switch off that final ad or not but
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apparently in the novelization which i
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know of but to be honest haven't read by dennis
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etchison actually conal cochran's plan
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is played out in full let's just say so yeah yeah we're not at the ending yet
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but thanks i haven't given away yet but most people know it anyway thanks thank
9:42
you trevor for quantum leaping well
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thanks for joining us here Halloween preseason of Witch. That's her up.
9:50
Turn it off! We got some Tom Atkins in this one. Mr. Dr. Chalice.
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Jesus, the creepiest fucker I've ever met in cinema.
10:01
According to Trevor...
10:04
Is Tom Skerritt because he says he looks just like him.
10:07
I didn't say, I said he reminds me of him. You said you look just like him.
10:10
You said. During our Dead Zone podcast, yes, he reminds me of him.
10:13
I'm not saying he, you know, he's like his twin. I can't even,
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I don't even see how he reminds you of him.
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He just does. I can't help it. Yeah, you're fucking nuts. That's what.
10:22
The horrible, horrible actress, Stacey Nelkin plays Ellie. She's all right.
10:27
Oh, stop. Stop. Okay.
10:30
Don't. She's fucking terrible. What the fuck? She's all right. What mood do you fuck?
10:35
Can you ever just go, you know what? You're right. He does kind of suck.
10:39
But no, you got to sit there and just suck on the teat.
10:41
Oh, suck on the teat. It reminds me of a certain scene coming up.
10:48
Pun intended. Yeah. By sexy Dr. Shagging Machine.
10:54
Okay. So we got the great Dan O'Harely who plays Cochran, who I love him as
10:59
Greg in The Last Starfighter.
11:01
And we got Garn Steffens who plays Marge who's actually originally married to Tom Atkins at the time.
11:07
Yeah. We got the annoying fucking Cup for Family. Thank God they deserve.
11:11
I sort of like them even though they are annoying on a text.
11:14
We got Nancy Keys who plays Linda Chalice. We know her as Annie Brackett from Halloween. Yes.
11:20
At the time she was married to Tom Lee Wallace. Right, yeah.
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That's why she was in this. And there we go.
11:26
Yeah. So we opened up with Dad running and the music going, do, do, do, do, do, do.
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And they got the robots who are a lot like, they're probably told,
11:34
walk like Michael Myers. Yeah, pretty much. That's pretty much what they do.
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It's pretty much a little nod to our boy Michael.
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And it's not a bad little chase scene. It's a very good opener.
11:45
It kind of gets so, he crushes the car between the robot dude guy thing.
11:48
Oh, that's a bit cheesy because, I mean, the car's going at no speed at all,
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but yet it still sort of crushes him.
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So yes, but you can sort of overdo things like that.
11:57
It's a car crushing against another car. That would hurt. But it's not going
12:01
at a very sort of quick speed.
12:03
Yeah, but it doesn't matter what speed it is. That's a pretty painful squish.
12:07
But they're supposed to be a robo man.
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So you know what I mean? They should be able to stand something like that.
12:12
They can't take a hit. You can puss them in the stomach and rip off their guts.
12:15
What, their yellow blood?
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Yeah, their like slimy blood goo thing.
12:19
It's actually orange juice. Right, yeah. So...
12:25
The gas station kind of does a data dump when he runs into the gas station, right? Yes.
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And the guy, the dude's watching, the gas guy is watching fucking TV.
12:33
Silver Shamrock, odd. Yeah.
12:36
Well, they're talking about the Stonehenge. This is funny. Yes.
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The blue stone from Stonehenge has been stolen.
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Yeah. And it's now equivalent to, what is it, the 19-year cycle of the moon.
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Yes, the planets are in alignment.
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This nine-ton rock has been stolen. Yep. There you go. There's our data dump
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right there. Yep. Exactly.
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Which actually I kind of like. I kind of like when they do that.
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They put it in like news broadcast.
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It's weaved in. And then they cut to the commercial.
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It's kind of, it's weaved in nicely and we don't have to sit there and listen
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for 20 minute expose. Yeah, by one of the characters. It's just weaved in in a news report.
13:11
Exactly. And yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a certain, see the whole sort of the
13:16
planets aligning and stuff, especially with Cochran's speech later on.
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There's a certain Lovecraft vibe I get from it as well.
13:23
You know you gotta get over this lovecraft thing no i'm
13:26
serious lovecraft to you no no with the whole sort of when the stars are
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right you know when the planets are in alignment so there's
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definitely a bit of a sort of smidgen of a lovecraftian sort of element there
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perhaps but yeah but i mean i think you're over i think you're i think you're
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you're over appreciating this a little bit maybe i am over analyzing it but
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i but what what nigel neil writing it,
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none of this would surprise me either.
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You know what I mean? Cause that guy, you know, knew his stuff. So we did.
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So once Harry is brought to the hospital, we meet the worst father of all time, Dr. Chalice.
14:02
And he shows up with these shitty little masks.
14:06
Now I remember these masks as a kid. They were terrible. Yeah.
14:09
The plastic would tear. I remember getting them. And then the rubber band.
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Yeah. The rubber band would always break.
14:14
Yes, I know. I remember getting them, me and my sisters, at Halloween,
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you know? Yeah, they were crap.
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And then I will say this, the masks on these fucking things are awesome. Oh, yeah, totally.
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The Silver Shamrock one. The witch, the pumpkin. Yeah, the witch,
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the pumpkin, and the skeleton. These are pretty classy looking masks. They're brilliant.
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It's a shame they're booby trapped. You know, you can buy them now actually
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online, but they're very expensive.
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So they are, they're like 80 quid or something. And, you know,
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as much as I love them, I'm not going to pay 80 quid for a Halloween mask.
14:44
They sit there in the house and be at home.
14:46
Well, that's not bad if you get all three. You get all three and you can't display
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them. This is for one of them. This is for one of them.
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I don't know, maybe if I had the money I probably would, to be fair,
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Uh, there's this thing when she's talking, she's, she's talking,
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the, the soon to be ex-wife is talking to Chalice and she tells the kids that
15:03
turn, when you turn that down, the TV, it's the same line she gives Lindsay in Halloween. Yeah.
15:09
Another nod. It's kind of cool. And there's another thing, they keep,
15:13
you know, the whole thing is the tags. Cause the tags have that little chip in it. Yes.
15:17
I don't give a fuck who you are. When you're a kid, that fucking tag would have
15:22
been ripped off in two seconds. I don't know.
15:25
Oh, here we go. Young kids would definitely. Best actor of all time, Ellie. And now this.
15:31
Young kids definitely would, because I know what young kids are like. I just said that.
15:35
Yeah, no, but maybe older kids, maybe about 11, 12 or so, would have kept it
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on. 11, 12. That's, okay. You know what? I'm done.
15:42
I'm trying to make good points here. It's just.
15:45
Oh, dear. I'd have kept it on. You know? It's the worst Halloween ever right
15:50
now. You made this the worst Halloween ever.
15:53
Anyway so he's supposed to hang out with the kids he gets called in I gotta
15:57
go it's funny this whole film is like four conversations he keeps calling the
16:01
wife listen I can't make it,
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even at the end whenever he's locked up he phones her whenever he escapes and he phones her,
16:10
he's trying to basically save her and the kids and she hangs up on him she's
16:14
had enough but don't forget as well he does a lot of drinking I think that's why he does,
16:20
he calls so many times he finally just gives up. I think that's why they do it. Oh no, yeah.
16:25
He's a heavy drinker and a womanizer. Yeah, you see him always talking to the
16:29
nurses and he's grabbing their asses and shit.
16:32
He's just a riding machine. So he is with his big mustache and his big fat arse
16:38
that we see later on, unfortunately.
16:41
I like Tom Atkins. So do I. I like him a lot, actually.
16:45
I've always enjoyed his stuff, but he's not a leading man guy.
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So I just can't see this guy just going around shagging all these women.
16:53
Yeah, much younger women as
16:55
well, and I have to say come on to him as opposed to the other way about.
17:00
I know, I mean I get that a lot. Well, we're used to it here especially doing
17:05
the podcast, all our groupies. You know?
17:09
Yeah, all three people.
17:13
And they're probably all in prison.
17:17
Yeah.
17:20
Now what does work for the film is some
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of the cool gore and I love when the
17:25
robot guy walks in and he goes to
17:28
Harry and he crushes his skull by
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ripping out his nose bone and it's a cool little effect oh it's very good it's
17:36
well done and then walks outside the hospital pours petrol all over himself
17:41
and blows himself up now bear in mind the first time you watch this the audience
17:45
is watching this you don't know he's a robot So this is quite a sort of quite a shocking opening.
17:51
And it totally works. It is a pretty nice little intro.
17:56
It's actually, in all fairness, we make fun of Chalice, but it is a good way
17:59
to introduce to him. He's kind of a dismissive father.
18:03
I don't think he means to be. No. He seems like he's nice to the kids,
18:06
but he's just, he doesn't know, he's chalice. He's struggling with the drink as well.
18:11
Obviously, yes, and I think there's immaturity things going on there too.
18:14
I think he's a good man, generally. I mean, he's trying to save the world here by the end of it.
18:19
So he is, you know, and he's desperately trying to save it.
18:21
He's a good man. He's just a bit messed up. Well, no offense.
18:24
I would do the same thing because if he doesn't save the world, he's fucked too.
18:28
No, it's just the people with the mask. He's kind of always,
18:31
he's always thinking of himself, I think sometimes. Yes.
18:34
Well, this is his journey, his arc, where he goes from being selfish.
18:38
No, I'm serious. Where he goes from being a selfish asshole to basically sacrificing,
18:44
you know, or putting his, at very least putting his life at risk to save everyone else.
18:50
But yet even whenever he eventually does turn and change, his wife's not enough
18:55
and she doesn't believe him and hangs up. You know?
18:58
Yeah, because he's burned so many bridges. Exactly. The boy who cried would.
19:03
So we meet Ellie because her father was the one who got killed.
19:06
Yeah. And she's just staring down the hall or whatever she's doing.
19:10
I don't give a fuck. Dreamily.
19:11
But Dr. Chalice is sitting there sizing her up. It's like, oh jeez.
19:14
This is, I'm telling you right now, the creepiest fucking relationship in film history.
19:20
It's weird, but it's sort of... It's like watching a girl being attacked by her father.
19:27
I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't go that far.
19:31
There is a weird line. There is a weird line after the sex scene in the motel.
19:37
Well, actually, even before we get to that, it's just like...
19:39
Oh, I know the line you're talking about.
19:41
I know the line. No, but even before we get to that, there's...
19:44
You know, this is reminding me of Theresa Palmer and Leland Palmer.
19:50
Why? Twin Peaks Fire Walk with me? Wash your hands.
19:55
Yeah. But even the scene where they're discussing who's going to go to the motel
20:01
in this little Irish small town, Irish American small town, and they're discussing
20:06
who's going to sleep in what room or whatever, or do you want to get another room?
20:09
And she says to him, where do you want to sleep? And he goes,
20:12
you know where I want to sleep? And he starts something like that and grabs her and kisses her.
20:16
But then, of course, it's her. No, he does. He goes, you know,
20:19
that's a stupid question. Yes, that's what it is. He says, yes, that's it.
20:23
But then, to be fair, it is her that introduces him whenever it comes back.
20:28
Yeah, I thought that was creepy. I don't get why she'd be all over that. And also, it's when...
20:35
I just think how invested he is in this crime all of a sudden.
20:38
Where the fuck did this come from? Well, that's it. He's a private eye now,
20:41
as well as being a doctor.
20:42
I'm not a very good or responsible doctor, I must say, or father.
20:47
First, he walks to the kids. Yeah. Gives them cheap masks. He gets a phone call.
20:52
He's got to go, I'm on call, I got to go. See you, kids.
20:55
Then the accident happens. Yeah. He calls them. I can't pick up the kids tonight.
20:59
There's been something going on in the hospital. He cancels on her again.
21:02
Then he decides to go shag Ellie here. to go to San Amir with her.
21:08
He calls her again. Hey, I can't make it. Something came up with some kind of
21:11
convention. Well, there's a six-pack.
21:12
He's got a six-pack where he's just purchased a six-pack as well.
21:16
And he's going off with a sexy younger woman.
21:19
To be fair, I think that... Just don't get his... No, no. I know what his motivations
21:23
are at the beginning here.
21:25
Oh, he did. Yeah, that's where his motivations are at first.
21:30
But then, obviously, as the web untangles of Silver Shamrock, he becomes a better man.
21:38
After double-checking that he's of legal age, you know, when he says, what age are you anyway?
21:43
He goes, you know, after the weird sex scene with his arse and stuff.
21:49
Yeah, you're, yeah.
21:52
You're jumping ahead a bit, but yeah. Yeah. Swerve, rove.
21:59
Yeah, he fucks her. He's like, how old are you? I'm 15. That would have really worked out. Oh, fuck.
22:07
Alright, so we find out the town, it was 1887 when it was founded and after
22:14
World War II, Cochran turned the place pretty much into a toy factory.
22:18
Yes, he was basically he started out making jokes for kids and toys and all that there.
22:26
Pranks and all that. Yeah, like, you know, fake dog shit and stink bombs and all that sort of thing.
22:32
But obviously his business grew and grew, but really he's also secretly a warlock.
22:36
So I do like, I do like, like Jimmy Lee Curtis is the curfew lady. Yes.
22:41
I think she's also the voice message when he tries to dial out.
22:45
The operator or such, yeah. Yeah.
22:48
So we got the, yeah, what is it, the Crazy Ralph, the drunk guy who gives us the dick down.
22:54
Yes, but not Crazy Ralph. It's like Halloween universe, or at least Halloween
22:58
season of the witch universe, Crazy Ralph.
23:01
I do like, hey, can I have a drink? He's like, yeah, here you go.
23:05
Hey, do you know what I think about this, Cochran?
23:07
Yeah. Oh, yeah, back in 19, blah, blah. Now, this is an exposition dump as opposed
23:13
to the more sort of slickly done news report. Subtle. Yeah.
23:17
The other one was more subtle. This is just like, this is not subtle with,
23:20
you know, stand-in Poundland Crazy Ralph.
23:23
Well, that way we got, at least that gives us an excuse for Dick Warlock to
23:26
come and rip his head off.
23:28
Yeah. I love when he rips his head off. Yeah. Oh, no, that's completely, yeah.
23:34
It is a bit gratuitous, but it's kind of fun and hokey and cheesy as well and enjoyable.
23:40
I love when he keeps calling Teddy, the coroner. Yes.
23:45
And he's calling the coroner. Do you find anything suspicious?
23:49
No, I can't find any flesh or anything. It's all car parts. They must have taken
23:53
the body away or something. I'm like, I think you would have the body.
23:57
It wouldn't have disappeared. It takes her about a week to examine these remains.
24:02
So it does. Yeah. And it's like a little pan.
24:05
Yeah. But to be fair, because he's such like a Brad Pitt and shagging machine, she's also big into him.
24:12
And she says, this is going to cost you dinner.
24:14
You know, all these women are coming on to him.
24:18
I know, I know. Like you said, I get that all the time.
24:22
So did you see, though? I do think it's funny.
24:25
Where, you know, the guy, when he sets himself on fire in the beginning.
24:29
Yes. And the car explodes. Yeah.
24:33
And car doors are everywhere and shrapnel everywhere. It cuts to like a day
24:37
later and we see the car smoking and again, shrapnel everywhere, car doors everywhere.
24:44
And the firefighters and police were already there, but yet the car isn't towed
24:48
yet. There's no police cross line sign. There is nothing.
24:52
It hasn't been moved. They're very slack in this time.
24:55
Yeah, and they just take their time, so they do and just do things when they
24:59
feel like it, while in the meantime drinking beer and presumably shagging, going by the top of them.
25:06
Well, let's get this part off with the sex scene. Yes. This is probably the
25:13
most terrifying thing in the movie.
25:16
I just want to go pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. It's the sight of his big arse
25:21
getting up out of the bed that just does it for me.
25:23
It's just like... Well, according to you, it's Tom Skerritt.
25:27
So, but yeah, he's suckling there pretty good.
25:32
Oh, yeah. I think he's really doing it. I don't think this is.
25:35
This is like soft porn, basically.
25:37
Yeah. I mean, she's getting. Her tits sucked. Yeah.
25:42
Let's be honest about it. That's what's going on.
25:46
Yeah. Yeah. His big back hair. Yeah. Yeah.
25:52
And his mistakes. His mistakes. Because obviously whenever he's sucking on whatever
25:57
Or kissing He's tickling them with that big bushy moustache as well You know
26:01
what I mean This Burt Reynolds moustache that he has.
26:07
And I mean Burt Reynolds in Boogie Nights By the way Not the cannibal run,
26:16
fuck yep oh that is so funny how old are you,
26:20
yeah it's just like yeah and then she's like yeah I've done never you I do you
26:24
know old enough don't never you mind or something and then just like laugh it
26:28
off you know it was it you know what it was the 80s man you know you stop with
26:34
that it's the 70s man back from Dead Zone yeah yeah it was the 80s man,
26:42
yeah Yeah, and then he jumps out of bed because something attracts his attention
26:47
and that's when we get his blue moon.
26:50
Which we really could have done we out. Maybe that's why Nigel Neal removed
26:54
his name from the fucking script.
27:00
So that's the scene though, which I do like when Marge gets it.
27:03
Yes, she's playing around with the tag and her face implodes and pretty cool.
27:08
Pretty gruesome and a pretty cool scene. It was cut heavily in certain versions
27:13
of it, especially back in the day. I would assume on TV as well.
27:16
But yeah, it's a pretty cool scene once you see it uncut.
27:20
And when it happens, you hear the big noise. And she's riding on top of Dr.
27:26
Chalice, and he's sucking on her tissue.
27:29
I think there's a certain irony that Tom Atkins' real wife is in the other room,
27:35
getting zapped by a silver shamrock tag and her face completely ripped off while
27:42
he's in the next room shagging a younger lady you know there's a certain weird irony about that,
27:51
Yeah, because she goes, what's that? He goes, I don't care. He's diving in there, sucking away.
27:57
Like a newborn. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. But a newborn with a mustache.
28:06
Like that Father Ted episode.
28:09
Oh, dear. All right, so.
28:13
Yeah, I don't give a fuck. So, yeah, we got, then they do the tour. Yes.
28:18
The Cup for Family and them. I like the family. I mean, they're idiots, but, you know.
28:22
Yeah, they're likable. They're not like idiots where, oh, God,
28:26
get rid of them. They're likable. They're passable.
28:28
Yeah, they're irritating, but it's kind of likable as well. Yeah. Yeah.
28:34
Note what they are to Cochran is useful idiots because he's the best seller
28:39
of the silver shamrock masks back in their hometown.
28:43
And, you know, he's just doing everything for Cochran, and Cochran's just,
28:46
oh, really? I'll give you the grand tour, but he's just using them. You know, obviously.
28:51
And he's happy enough to be used, you know, because they're living the American
28:54
dream, but they're not really. Cochran has other plans.
28:58
By the way, Dan O'Hellery's brilliant. He steals the show here.
29:01
No, he's good. He's kind of like Frank Lichella and Skeletor,
29:04
just coming to get up and enjoying himself. But more subtle,
29:07
I think. Not taking himself too seriously.
29:09
Oh, yeah. Yeah, Dan. But he's brilliant. And I mean, in RoboCop and,
29:12
you know, you mentioned the last Starfighter, basically everything.
29:15
And he was in. Yes, he was. I mean, he was run for years, obviously.
29:19
But in the 80s, he was a lot of cool movies. Oh, yeah.
29:23
Yeah. Do it. You're fired. Yeah.
29:26
Yeah, exactly. He's the old man. Yeah. He pops up again in Rubble Cop 2,
29:30
I think, as well. Haven't seen that in years, though. Yeah.
29:33
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He lived a good age, too. Yeah. Good on him. Mm-hmm.
29:37
I do love when they go on, oh, why can't I have this mask? Whoa,
29:40
son, these masks have to go to final processing.
29:43
What's that? A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And then what's that over there?
29:49
And there's a big door that says final processing. Just in case you missed it.
29:54
Yeah, there is a lot of quick fixes with the dialogue here. Although a lot of
29:58
people have a problem with the fact that, you know, how did he get this big, massive stone,
30:03
this magic stone from Stonehenge over to small town America how would they have
30:08
done that and all that they're well quite a ship exactly quite simply that it's
30:13
shipped it he has the money to you know basically hire out his own boat
30:17
and ship it over so I don't have an issue with that at all I know people some
30:21
people have brought it up you know and there is a sort of there is a sort of
30:24
like tongue in cheek quick fix by Cochrane where he says you wouldn't believe
30:28
the trouble we had getting this over anyway moving on,
30:32
you know but yeah actually yeah i want to know what what you did yeah but yeah
30:38
it's who cares i mean it's it's a write-off i i didn't care yeah but but but
30:42
i'm happy i would have been happy enough to say that was shipped it over you
30:46
know incognito yeah cool works for me you know.
30:50
So it seems like the film is about to wrap up because everything happens real
30:54
fast after the tour because now Ellie's gone. Yes.
30:57
And he's being chased by the goons and he rips out the guts of Michael Myers' robot. Yes.
31:04
And very easily, by the way. Too easily. And-
31:09
Halloween's playing in the background, which is kind of fun.
31:12
And then the big reveal, the missing piece of Stonehenge is there.
31:15
I would say as well, there's a brilliant scene just whenever he's fighting with
31:19
robot guys, robot guys, where you see that old doll.
31:24
Oh, the old lady, the mannequin? Yes, that's a really quite effective and creepy
31:29
scene. So it is, I think that really works.
31:32
Yeah, he hits, he knocks the head off, and then Cochran says,
31:35
that was made back in 18-something. Yes.
31:39
It was German or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
31:42
I could care less. Well, I liked it. I thought it was good, and it was a pretty
31:45
creepy, effective scene.
31:48
But I do like when Cochran goes, it has power.
31:52
Yes. Let me demonstrate, and it's demonstrating, it's killing the cup for family.
31:57
That scene. And I like, this scene is the best scene in the film.
32:00
Yeah, that scene has haunted me in the best possible way since I was a kid. I hate snakes.
32:04
Oh, and the insects and stuff.
32:07
Now, watching it, as you would say through the podcast size
32:10
and i have revisited this quite a few times over
32:13
the years it is it's not quite as effective as
32:16
it was when i was a kid probably because we're all so much desensitized these
32:20
days but it still works and it's still a very creepy and a brilliant scene with
32:25
the kids you know his head gets crushed and the snakes and even whenever the
32:29
snake you know bites the dad and stuff you know what i mean it wipes them all
32:33
out basically and it's it's It's a brilliant scene.
32:36
So it is. And the mother, I think the mother just dies. She faints. Of shock.
32:40
I know. I think she faints, and then it sort of suggested that one of the snakes
32:44
or the insects basically add her, you know? Oh, okay. Okay.
32:50
I do like when...
32:54
Teddy is killed, you know, the coroner. Yes.
32:57
And the robot is looking for a weapon. Yeah. And he opens up one jar and there's a power drill. Yeah.
33:02
Although that's kind of sort of Slicer, Michael Myers-esque as well,
33:06
you know. Well, where's the power drill coming from?
33:08
Well, the coroners, obviously, I don't know.
33:13
I'm assuming coroners, whenever they're like, you know, cars that have been
33:17
blown up, whenever they're examining their contents, would need a black and decker.
33:21
I don't know. it is a bit convenient there are a few conveniences here but i
33:24
i can i'd happily overlook well i didn't like the fact her death was i it was
33:29
off screen we should have saw it yeah yeah yeah you sicko you see her feet move
33:34
sicko but yeah wow wow let's see some drilling killing.
33:39
So yeah so cochran's day dump uh we have waited we had waited for years in our
33:44
this is a brilliant speech.
33:46
Halloween, the festival of Sanhain. Blood of animals and children.
33:52
Controlling our environments. What I want to accomplish. I want a population control.
33:57
So it's pretty much to kill kids to bring down the population.
34:01
I think it's more, not even so much that. I think it's more blood sacrifice
34:05
for these gods, these pagan gods.
34:08
I think that's more what he's... But he even says population control. Yes, no, he does.
34:12
He says that as well. but i think there's more of an element of blood sacrifice
34:16
with the hell's running red with blood i would say it is a fantastic scene arguably
34:21
the best scene maybe even over the sort of you know the scene with the family
34:25
it's just because of the delivery and the sinister manner in which it's delivered by dan o'
34:31
hillary and i mean this speech this is very much sort of the especially with
34:36
the whole Stonehenge and stuff, you could sort of
34:39
feel like something very British and Nigel Neal-esque.
34:44
But yeah, it's totally sold by Cochran. I think you're.
34:51
Overanalyzing? Yeah, you're overselling it here. No, no, I mean, no, no.
34:55
Well, not in my head, but I mean, fair enough. You said Ellie should have got the Oscar, so.
35:02
But you know what? Like I said, I have always really like this film.
35:06
Yeah, I think you're really over-appreciating some of the dialogue here.
35:11
No, I think it's a great speech. Brilliantly written and performed.
35:15
But to each their own. I mean, you think Ellie's Meryl Streep.
35:20
She's alright. Which is funny because now he saves Ellie and right away I knew she was a robot.
35:26
Of course she doesn't speak. And it was tough. It's tough because she can act
35:29
so I wasn't sure. She's cute as a robot?
35:33
Yeah so she can play a robot good emotionless yeah that's right fuck I do like,
35:42
How he destroys everything. How would he get the code?
35:46
The code? I don't know. He sneaks to the computer. He enters the code. Yeah.
35:52
To activate the chips or the commercial. Yes.
35:55
And then he runs up above the rafters and he throws all the chips. Yes.
36:00
Down on them and kills everybody, including Cochran. I thought,
36:03
no, he hacks in with the code. I don't think he has a code. How? I don't know.
36:07
Because not only is he a top shagger and a top doctor and a top drinker. a top detective.
36:13
He's also a techie hacker. You know what I mean? He's fucking Steve Jobs all
36:17
of a sudden. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But that's okay.
36:21
I do like how the commercial's playing and he throws the chips down.
36:25
Yes. And then does Cochran, does he get petrified?
36:30
No, he like seems to basically sort of merge into this whole stone head hench
36:38
thing. Don't forget, he's a warlock so he's a magic dude anyway.
36:41
So he seems to become at one and fuse into the whole Stonehenge magic rock thing.
36:49
But it's a bit of a cheesy effect, actually, where he sort of disappears.
36:53
So does he get petal? What happens?
36:57
He becomes sort of fused with the rock. Does he become stone?
37:04
No, no, no stone. he just like all of his all of his
37:07
body particles are sort of then like taken
37:10
into stone hands you know that rock that big stone
37:13
so he becomes stone pretty much it's sort of mixed and then he explodes kind
37:18
of my take on it was he sort of becomes at one with it if that makes sense you
37:24
know that's fucking stupid i don't know yes you know i'm not denying that there's
37:27
some quick fixes here and some stuff that doesn't make 100%, you know, sense.
37:33
But I can roam it, you know.
37:36
All right. I don't feel the need to nitpick this.
37:40
If this was one of my directors, like James Wan, you'd be tearing this to shreds.
37:47
Maybe. You know what I mean? I probably would.
37:50
Ask him. Maybe I am biased towards it. I don't know. I know what I like.
37:55
And this type of sort of cheesy sort of horror fun spook show,
38:01
but with a great story, is something... Yeah, maybe I'm a bit biased. I'll admit that.
38:08
There you are. I'm going to save that for the next podcast, I'm keeping that
38:11
as a clip yeah but yeah so she attacks him in the car it's pretty.
38:18
Come on man and then she loses an arm yeah,
38:25
it works for me I'm not trying to be an asshole here I just disagree with you
38:30
but yes it's a bit silly of course it is and it's a bit camp and all that sort
38:34
of thing but it's fun I wasn't on the edge of my seat.
38:39
You know what I mean? Okay, but the new Salem is not shit because you weren't
38:43
emotionally invested in the characters, but this one is not either.
38:46
This is fun, but you can't.
38:47
This is fun, you know? That's the difference.
38:51
So he gets a handjob from her one more time.
38:55
That's her final goodbye.
38:58
I love what he calls a national broadcaster. Yeah, stop it. Yeah, no problem.
39:05
Like, they're going to stop anything this fucker tells them to do. Exactly.
39:07
So he gets two on. Yeah. Say, for example, you knew someone who worked in television
39:12
complaints and they were on the phones at that station and somebody rung them
39:16
up and says, turn it off, turn it off, it's magic. You know,
39:19
this warlock's going to kill everybody.
39:21
You'd hang the phone up or maybe even call the cops on him. All right, no problem.
39:27
You know, you'd either hang up on him. In the classic song from Meat Loaf,
39:33
two out of three ain't bad because he gets two of them to shut it down. Yeah.
39:38
And then the last one, he's like, stop it. Stop it.
39:41
But he doesn't stop it. Yeah. Yeah.
39:45
Yeah, very, very dark ending.
39:48
All the little bastards get it.
39:50
Fuck them. Yeah. I don't care. By the way, can I just say as well,
39:53
see, there's a montage scene where you see all of the kids, you know,
39:57
throughout America, celebrating sort of getting ready for Halloween and stuff.
40:01
And there is some great imagery there, especially the image that's used on the
40:05
poster, actually, one of the posters where the kids are walking over,
40:08
like, the hills in the masks.
40:10
Just beautiful, haunting imagery, I would say. You know?
40:15
Definitely. I think this is
40:17
a grossly underrated and deeply misunderstood classic. I think you're...
40:24
You're really stretching what you're getting out of this. I'll tell you what, though.
40:29
Yeah, so he's in the West Coast, so it's going off at 10 o'clock. No.
40:34
9 o'clock. The big giveaway. 9 o'clock. What about the East Coast?
40:38
That's a completely different time zone.
40:41
Yeah, but they'll be watching it, obviously, at 10 o'clock or whatever it is in their time zone.
40:45
They'll still be watching the same live broadcast, just at a different time.
40:48
No, they can't. You're not getting it.
40:51
Let's say 10 o'clock is California right? Right, yes well 3 o'clock would be Boston right,
40:58
so the kids would be in school well I mean you only get in the west coast at
41:03
this point I know what you're saying and this has been brought up about it,
41:07
maybe Cochran's plan I've mentioned this before and nobody can give me an answer
41:11
I was like well it's a plot hole it is a plot hole,
41:15
that's a pretty big fucking plot hole yes it is a big plot hole but according
41:18
to you it's Shakespeare No, no, it can't sort of be explained away that maybe,
41:24
just maybe, Cochran was only going after the kids in this time zone.
41:32
You know? So this whole never plan was just West Coast. Yeah,
41:35
yeah, I mean, I think that would be enough of a blood sacrifice to your pieces, gods.
41:41
Okay, you could have said that. Yes, it's a plot hole, it's a plot hole.
41:44
Yes, it is a big plot hole, you know, I'll admit. You think I wrote this the
41:48
way I'm getting on defending it?
41:50
Yeah, you're like fucking sucking his...
41:55
How could you resist Tom Atkins? You know what I mean? Even if he arse straight,
42:00
you know what I mean? With that arse and that moustache.
42:05
No, it's a plot hole. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a plot hole. But listen, guys...
42:12
I actually really enjoy this film now. Of course. And I poke fun of it.
42:15
It's kind of like Buckaroo Banzai. It's fun. I just go with it.
42:20
Well, actually, this is more competent than Buckaroo Banzai.
42:23
Buckaroo Banzai had some direction issues.
42:25
But it's a great story.
42:29
If you take away the Halloween aspect of it and kind of being cheated there,
42:34
it is a pretty good slock B-movie camp fun. With a great story.
42:43
Sure i mean you know the general story with the whole
42:45
sort of dark roots of halloween and stuff which uh
42:49
and it's quite a sort of unsettling story it
42:51
gives you like you're you but you're you're kind of overselling it i
42:54
mean he says it like one sentence and all of a sudden oh
42:58
my god well i get it you see
43:02
you finally get it yeah no i
43:05
i mean i think this film i mean as i stated you
43:08
know earlier on i've stated before i've always
43:11
had to play some heart for it and i always will that's not
43:14
meant in a sort of condescending way i just think it is a great yes it's a b
43:19
movie but it's great fun and with a very enjoyable quite dark story i'll always
43:25
have a lot of time for this film some great scenes as well and imagery yeah
43:29
i think it's a good stuff in here it's not it's,
43:32
and even the stuff that isn't um you know a bit which is a bit sort of off the
43:36
wall the fact that we've been laughing so much over this podcast you know that's
43:41
fun as well you know what i mean even though it's a bit cringe you know so again
43:45
and that's not meant to sound condescending it's meant to be you know we're
43:49
fans well at least i am you know,
43:53
No, I own it. I do visit it. Like I said, it's an easy hour and a half. Yeah.
44:00
You put it on and, you know, have some popcorn. Yeah. It leaves a smile on your
44:04
face. Exactly. Or you're throwing up during the sex scene.
44:10
All right, guys. Thanks for listening to this one. Give us a shout.
44:14
We've been getting some emails and stuff from you guys, and we do appreciate
44:16
it. Give us a shout at Instagram.
44:18
It says frame underscore podcast on Instagram there or on Facebook. Happy Halloween What?
44:25
Happy Halloween listeners as well Why? I'm still wrapping up I didn't even get
44:29
to the ending I thought you were finished I thought you were finished Just let
44:34
me ask I'm going to ask you a question And I want to listen to the audience,
44:40
And I want a real answer Yes, 100% Why do you hate me?
44:45
I don't hate you, Karen I love you really You know,
44:52
oh god i hate life like tom atkins loves beer and younger ladies,
45:00
all right guys we're gonna wrap this one up quickly because i'm gonna gonna kill,
45:06
guys have a great halloween do do whatever you do oh poison apples,
45:14
raise your blade in the apples masks with um chips in them that's gonna crush
45:18
people's heads It's, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever, each of their own.
45:21
Music.