Latest / Skin Anarchy / Embarking on a Journey of Mindfulness, Breaking Barriers, and Self-Discovery with Cory Allen

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Embarking on a Journey of Mindfulness, Breaking Barriers, and Self-Discovery with Cory Allen · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to this is another Mindset Monday episode.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited because today we're gonna be interviewing a guest, which I'm really fond of.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I always follow his work on social media and I find a lot of inspiration from his words and a lot of wisdom also, you know, from what he shares.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I'm gonna introduce you guys to Corey Allen.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Corey.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be able to see you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate the invitation.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's an honor, and I, you know, like I said, I I love your um I love what you write and I love how you explain things, and it always puts me in a better mood, you know, it helps me logic through a lot of things sometimes.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to learn a little bit about you and what got you into, I guess, going down this road of like mindfulness and being a speaker, being an author, and um, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first, thank you for um sharing that the the writing is useful to you.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I am grateful for that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also I like that you use the word, it helps you logic through things because that's very much how I think about these things and how I write to them.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it's you know, essentially they're tiny little logical arguments, like in my mind.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what's the issue?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: How can I define that premise?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: How can I create supporting information to make that premise more better articulated?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then how can I put it into action?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's in one way or another, all of the writing has that function.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you notice that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: As far as my background goes, yeah, I basically just had a yeah, I grew up in a troubling, a challenging environment and you know, uh suffered through emotional uh abuse and uh narcissism and various things like that, and had no resources.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just got lucky, you know, really um in terms of I I stumbled upon Western philosophy whenever I was a teenager, and there was no readers in my house, you know, no one in my family reads to this day, you know, other than me.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I just totally stumbled upon it and really connected with it, and then that moved me over to Eastern philosophy.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this was in the 90s, you know, so it was there was not YouTube, there wasn't Google, there was not, here's your top 10 meditation tips, you know.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was like dense, hardcore, you know, stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just started reading it and it was it really clicked for me because you know, the really how it happened was um not to get too granular, but I heard overheard someone say if they could have dinner with anyone, you know, two people dead or alive, would it be?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is randomly, like in public.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And someone said, uh, Jesus and Nietzsche, which looking back, that's a fun combination.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I so I was in this bookstore and I just saw the name Nietzsche on the back of a book, and I was like, Whoa, that looks there's that name.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a knife blade, like you know, it sounds so cool.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let me go check it out.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I went and I was like, okay, this is how I think, like the logic and math of kind of this abstract thinking, bringing it into life.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really how I think.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get obsessed with that.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, you know, part of my obsession with with Western philosophy was really healthy because I was infinitely fascinated, like I was activated, like I got like possessed by I was so fascinated, obsessively.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um, of course, looking back, you know, being older, I realized I was also just disappearing into it as a way to hide and you know, practice avoidance from my surroundings.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and also like trauma and pain.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if I just go way into this world of thinking, then I don't have to acknowledge any of the suffering, you know.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that then that led me to Eastern philosophy.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as m what my memory tells me is that I I first went over and found randomly picked up a book because it looked cool in the Eastern philosophy section that was by D.T.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Suzuki called uh Essays in Zen Buddhism, which again, you know, it's a 90-year-old guy, you know, in the 1970s or whatever, 60s, writing ephemeral ideas about Zen from uh the the you know the outlook of someone that was born in you know the year 1900 or whatever.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: But he was a you know one of the four you know translators for for of Eastern wisdom into West, like in the very beginning, whenever that started coming over.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, uh became obsessed with that and just really started expanding from there and uh absorbing all Eastern wisdom traditions, reading about um and really, I mean, ultimately it was just messing with my brain.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I because I started feeling like even at this this age, like I noticed the more I read Western philosophy or Eastern, the more I actually noticed my consciousness shifting.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would feel high after I read them, and I would think, yeah, like the texture of my mind feels different.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I got so addicted to that feeling because it's like fascinating.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just started recognizing, like, wait a second, and I kind of still use this tool to this day, but whenever I was a teenager, I was like, I don't feel if I think back to a month ago, like my outlook feels different, like the world seems different like than it did a month ago, and I kept tracking that.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be okay, three months now ago now, like, yeah, like I'm thinking different, and I slowly began experimenting with meditation.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, at this time, I was also like, I was reading, you know, Hinduism, uh Zen, um, of course, like classical translations of the Pali Canon and commentaries.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then I was getting into like Sufi mysticism and like Alistair Crowley and the hippie Western American philosophers like Terrence McKenna and Robert Anton Wilson and and people like that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really just and of course, I was also at that at that time I would you know take mushrooms and go in my closet and put a towel under the door and meditate in darkness for a few hours and see what I could, you know, see what would happen.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little urban cave.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I could relate.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've had many moments that's very simple.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love learning a lot from this.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally, oh for sure, yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so anyway, you know, I so I basically started realizing that my consciousness was malleable, and that if I put work into it, that if you know, since what we experience exists in our mind, I realized that if we change our mind, we can change the sense of the world, our outlook and our perception and how we experience the world.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a real early entry point into me realizing that we have say in how we think, how we feel, and how we view, like what through which lens we view the world and how it feels to us, and that if you can change that and change the environment in which you exist in, like mentally, your your approach to it and your mindset, then that changes your feelings, your behavior, and therefore your actions in the world start shaping what your future will look like.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I love how you phrase that, and I really resonate with everything you said because I think that there's this, I mean, I I've always considered it to be, I don't know if it's a misunderstanding or just, you know, we're not interpreting it correctly is this idea that to be mindful or to be, I guess, more in touch with yourself, your inner self, you have to go and do these like really elaborate things.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: But then I've always been, you know, like I remember being younger and having very similar experiences to what you were describing.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to always think to myself, well, what about all of the, you know, the rishis and the gurus in India that sit literally like just like Buddha did?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: They sit under a tree, they forget the world and they go into themselves, and then when they emerge from their my their meditation every day or every so often, it's they're it's they're not concerned with this world out here, you know, in the same way that we are.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like they're going into meditation to like then deal with the world out here, you know what I mean?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: They they've done it for the reason of this internal journey that you go into, you know, and then exactly how you said when you're doing when you do this and then you emerge, your actions are different as well.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a point I would love for you to further, I guess, talk a little bit about is this idea of, you know, people I think are always trying to shape their life through their actions, and they're always trying to like, you know what I mean, like go down this road of how can I make it better or how can I do something that's going to like, you know, I don't know, get me from point A to point B, you know, whether that's like financial gain or like, you know, a relationship or something.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But what are your thoughts on that in terms of us trying to change our lives through these like kind of, I guess, pseudo-intellectual moments of, you know what I mean, doing this meditation thing or whatever we think we're doing, and then trying to apply it and make it so that something is changing outside in this world, you know?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: If that makes sense, if that makes sense.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, it totally does.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it it makes me laugh as as someone that has meditated for 25 years.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it makes me laugh whenever I see just the kind of commercification of like of meditation, things like that, that's really arisen over the last 10 years.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, where they're like, you know, here's meditation for business, meditation for you know, whatever.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's like, yeah, like meditation, it that could be an outcome of meditating is like being better in business, because if you're more self-aware and more present and more clear-minded and less reactionary, then you'll be better at anything, you know.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's funny, it's so funny that they've they've like created all these the you know, this world of things to buy around the outcomes, like potential outcomes of meditation, as opposed to the root and the source, which you were talking about.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, it's you know, in terms of like uh kind of spontaneously enlightened gurus or like Buddha or something like that, you know, if you look back at the classical like Theravadan uh writings, meditation, the word wasn't even really it wasn't used, it was called dwelling.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like they talked about the translation is really dwelling, so it was like sit on the tree and go inward and dwell, not like do this sort of a box breathing or something like that, you know.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so the point of that, which you you mentioned, is uh which is a great thing to understand, is like they weren't doing it to deal with the world because if you deal with what they were looking to to work with internally, then you your problem with the outside world is solved, right?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like so you don't need to get into the details of what you're experiencing because the point would be it when going inward is to uh obtain a sense of self.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you know, whenever you you get a sense of self, which that means you get a sense of your identity, which is impermanent, which means it's always changing, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this idea that selfhood is non-existent, and that freaks people out because they think, oh, well, I feel like I exist.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who am I?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who you are is someone that's always changing, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So there's another stable version of you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about to who you were whenever you were 10 years old versus who you are today, like sure, it's a similar collection of cells and meat with a story we've applied to it, but it's you're a very different being, you know, physically, mentally, everything.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is always happening to us, just in the same way that nature is, you know, leaves are falling off of a tree and regrowing and falling off of a tree and regrowing.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: The leaves are happening, but they're not the same leaves every season.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's very much how we are on a physical and a conscious level.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding that is very liberating, but it keeps because it allows you to, and this is something I I touch on in my my new book that's coming out next month called Brave New You.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It allows you to continuously redefine yourself so you don't get locked in limiting patterns, thinking, oh, this is who I have to be ultimately because it's comfortable to the people around me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can go, you know what?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was this person.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I lived in these patterns up until this point.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to continue doing this thing.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're, oh, that person, they they love a good, you know, cocktail or whatever.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and then you realize that that's sort of um not who you want to be anymore.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people be like, well, you know, if I uh I'll feel weird if I don't drink or my friends or something like that.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's just uh a story you're clinging on to because you've used that to identify a part of your identity structure, you know, and that goes for anything and everything.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're a doctor.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you you could go tomorrow, like you don't have to keep doctoring.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: You could go, you know what, screw this, you know, screw this.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go be a yoga teacher instead.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can redefine yourself anytime.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're all totally free, you know, and and understanding that your consciousness is always changing is an insight that allows you to have that type of flexibility.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you can get real small with that too.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can get if you notice that you're you know defensive in certain moments, or if you're sort of like uh negative, chatty, you know, around people sometimes, you can recognize that and go, you know what, I I can change that.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have that, I'm not locked in being that type of person.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can let that go and evolve into someone new.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really useful insight one would get from dwelling.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then also um a really big one is clarifying and developing a sense of open awareness or witness mind, where instead of being stuck in autopilot in your life, just reacting to what everyone's saying, the things that are happening around you in your environment, to your own thoughts about yourself, you can start to observe and become conscious of the arising thoughts in your mind as they're happening and becoming removed from those so that they're not instructions.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You recognize them just as your other senses.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like actually in Buddhism, there we're kind of thought is seen as a sixth type of sense.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you have your sight, smell, touch, and then thought is another one.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just as ephemeral, it's just as you know, as transitory as the other ones.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I I like to use this analogy, it's a little abstract, but it's like, but but so are thoughts.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, whenever we we get out of bed in the morning and we pull the covers off and we feel that coldness on our skin, we go, ooh, that's cold.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go get in the shower or we go exercise or whatever, and then we warm up and we forget about it, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is that coldness?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just information going into our nervous system, going into our mind.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: We apply a symbol to it, a label, and then we acknowledge it and let it go.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: We think that's coldness, it'll pass.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now continue on.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: We at no point do we feel cold, and then four hours later, whenever we're in the sun sweating, we're like, I'm still cold from this morning.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm still attached and associated with and self-identifying with the moment I was cold for a few seconds this morning, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: We don't do that, it doesn't make any sense.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: However, with our thoughts, if we wake up one morning and we look in the mirror and we go, Oh god, this you suck.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: You were gonna fail today, you're a loser.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then we will hold on to that feeling and the emotions that come from that thought for days, weeks, hours, years, lifetimes.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just the same amount of transitory information passing through the stage of our mind.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yet we confuse our thoughts as something more important as opposed to just our sense information because it's arising from inside of us as opposed to outside of us, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So having that distinction is something else that one of those gurus that was spontaneous and enlightened would have through dwelling.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever you start to recognize your sense of self, your uh relationship with your thoughts, your impulses, as I mentioned.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So noticing like an arising desire to say something, to do something, allows you to put space around those things and choose, you know, mindfully choose to act differently in the moment, as opposed to simply being possessed and autopilot by these things.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: All the whenever you develop those skills and then go into the world, any of the problems that you face, that could be conflicts with other people, that could be your own defensiveness and reactionary behavior, that could be um feeling like you need to change your behavior to fit into certain situations and or whatever.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it the list goes on and on.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You would develop skills that would keep you from being controlled and influenced by what the you know the what you will encounter in the external world.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes oh my gosh, I love what you said because I have always wondered about this idea of how, you know, people and you'd you had mentioned this, you know, um, when you were kind of talking about how you grew up.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a lot of us have these, like I call them excuses, you know, because we all have this some sort of trauma that we hold on to from our childhood or some port in some part in our life, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where we start using that as our reasoning for why we're reacting the way we are or why we're perpetuating that thought that you know, how you're explaining like you have this reaction, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be negative, but then you keep perpetuating it and you keep letting it snowball throughout the day, and it keeps kind of like the cycle never stops in your brain, you know, throughout the day.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times I know I've done this, and I know pretty much I think everyone alive has probably done this, is the idea that you know it it gets even worse when you start validating it with past traumas, you know, like because I was raised like this, of course I'm gonna react like this, you know, and of course I feel like this, and it triggered me to feel like this, you know, that kind of thing.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what is your I mean, if you were to give advice on that, you know, for anyone that might be struggling with that portion of it, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like becoming that detachment portion is difficult because they've also, you know, attached it to that traumatic life experience.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get past that?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love this because first off, you're actually you're going through everything that's in my my book that's coming out, which is really fun.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the chances of this, yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just I love the the randomness of this, um, because the whole first part is about our mental behavior habits and how to work with those, which we were talking just talking about, and then I I go you know in exactly into what you're talking about now, which is um, you know, that certainly can happen.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the way to work with it is to flip that around and turn those associations into helpers.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like turning your quote unquote bad habits or bad behaviors or bad uh you know imprintations into um modes in ways that will help you grow and heal.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's done by instead of looking at these things where you go, oh, of course I'm gonna you know react that way because of X, Y, Z trauma, and then that's the moment that you have to make this change where you you change your mindset in the way that you're relating to this experience that you had.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially what's happening there is the past experience is controlling how you're feeling in the present and you're allowing it to define you.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: We have to change from a mind running a program to a mind writing a program in that moment and look at that behavior and go, okay, I'm feeling this way.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's look at it in terms of the social setting.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say that you were teased and bullied a lot whenever you were in high school or something, and so you're really anxious whenever you go to parties.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you go to a party and you get weird and you get anxious, you shut down, you slump your shoulders, you don't make any eye contact, you're not yourself.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't feel good.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: You your your heart's racing because you're just holding on to this experience you had.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sad and it's unfortunate that one had this experience.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you could think, well, of course, like I suck at parties because you know, I had a really shitty like socialization experience when I was younger, and um then you're you're like, oh god, okay, well, this I'm just gonna grit my teeth, I'm just gonna bear through this, and uh, you know, then you suffer, and that you just keep repeating that story over and over, and you validate it, like you said, because you're like, Yeah, this is why it's happening, so I'm just gonna deal with this.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But why?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you just allow those patterns to persist, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's generally because people don't have the tools or this this kind of uh this little crack of light to shine through to allow them to flip how they're approaching this moment.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So in in that moment, the key would be to recognize what you're feeling and this like, okay, I'm feeling tense, feeling stressed, I'm feeling anxious and awkward because of this past experience.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And wherever you have this thought that goes, well, of course I'm feeling that way because of my past.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's whenever you go, this recognition of why I'm feeling this way is not it doesn't allow me to be.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Be passive, this is prompting me as a reminder.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an alarm bell to now take action to change that behavior.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally going, here is what, here's the way you don't want to be, and here's why you're acting that way.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you can recognize it and go, okay, there it is.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have it all laid out.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now let me, now that I've recognized it and it's reminded me why I'm feeling this way, let me write a new way of being in the present moment.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not going to be, you know, you're not going to just flip a switch and go, okay, now I'm just like the uh darling of this party here, and all of a sudden you're just in the zone.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it allows it, put a little space in there, it allows you to lighten up, to loosen up, to like, okay, let me approach this differently.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me sort of let me let's imagine that these are all actual, you know, I know all these people, they're friends.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let me think about something I'm passionate about so I can when I get into a conversation, it's gonna make me come alive because I'm talking about something that I really love, you know, and I enjoy, and just sort of changing that whole dynamic and using those those memories as as reminders to point yourself in a new direction.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I really like that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, one of my biggest questions, I think, is also um was you had addressed this earlier a little bit, is this idea of, you know, I mean, when I was getting into my own reading, I was very much interested in astrophysics, and one of the concepts that came up was the observer effect.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you know, you know, about the experiment that was done, the double slit experiment, and this idea of, you know, there's nothing existent without an observer.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think when we look at ourselves and our inner um struggle, uh one of my biggest questions is how do we go from being so identified with the reactor to being more aware of the observer?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that like I mean, where did that happen for you in your journey where you were then where you were like starting to notice, like, well, I am observing now?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I think Eckhart totally calls it the pain body, but you know what I mean?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, where what what was it for you that happened where it was like I'm you're now observing more than you are associating with that, you know, said pain body or ego or whatever we want to call it, rather than you know, just letting it take over and do this.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is that for you?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh, I love first off, shout out to the double slit experiment.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard anyone mention that in a long time.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also a fan.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, I really through gradually through meditation, um, just practicing meditation.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the more that I calm down the nervous system just through simple, like calm breathing techniques, after that rewired itself, after I did that enough, I began developing what's called you know, access concentration ultimately, and and or usually referred to in a more technical way.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is the awareness of like conscious material.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So anyone that can be awake can become aware of this.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So anyone even listening to this right now, after words are right now, you could just take a moment to you could close your eyes and just pay attention to like what are what thoughts are arising, what little things are popping into your mind.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for me right now, it's like I'm doing a podcast, I'm doing this exercise, I have a little bit of allergies going on, I can feel that, I can hear a fan that's happening, you know.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm comfortable in this chair and I'm noting things that are arising, which then we're getting double meta there.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so you just notice these things that are arising and popping into your mind.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you start doing that, you once you become conscious of that, you it's very difficult to not be conscious of that anymore.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like once you know you can't unknow, you know, this level of awareness.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you just sit in a meditation practice developing that internal awareness, the more detailed it becomes.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, as I said, they just happen gradually over time through meditation.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the real value of that is that that's what mental clarity is, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So people think that having a clear and quote unquote clear mind is having a mind with no thoughts, that's a poor translation of what that is meant to be.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Really, it's having an awareness, a clarity of what's happening in your mind at all times, so that whenever negative thoughts, positive thoughts, uh intrusive thoughts about yourself or other people, uh, instructions, impulses arise, you can you can clearly see them and choose which ones you want to turn into action, how you want to let those influence who you're being in the present moment.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, that's how it happened for me is just through gradually watching them uh over time and practicing meditation.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think, you know, that's for me, I I know that's the hardest part.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of people uh really struggle with it, you know, especially like I can tell you in in my field, you know, in medicine, we're always surrounded by some sort of traumatic situation happening, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the world is so loud and it's so in your face constantly.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I find myself in situations where I like, you know, I think I'm like, you know, I'm experiencing this because I'm in this field, but I know there are countless people out here, you know, there's so much going on in the world that the world can be so consuming.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really why I asked you because we are we get so easily drawn in, you know, and we get so easily attached to every event that's happening on the outside.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then to really be the observer and then watch yourself react and get attached to the external things.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a really profound, even if it's a moment that it happens, it's really profound because it leaves an impression on you, you know, forever.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that you said that it's like once it happens, you can't really forget about it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's there, you know, you recognize that you're able to do it, you know.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what's amazing about it, how it really becomes applied, is that once you develop that self-awareness, the internal self-awareness, which is really where all of the kind of fundamental growth shifts begin is that internal self-awareness.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um then what mindfulness is, is having that awareness and an awareness of what's happening in the world in front of you, both naturally in your mind at the same time, and watching and you know, um facilitating how you're interacting with that world.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, it sounds a little bit like kind of patting your uh head and rubbing your stomach at the same time, but it's it it it's quite a smooth thing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're just aware of what you're thinking, what you're feeling, and you're aware of what's happening in front of you, and you're facilitating this connection and communication with like reality through yourself in a very thoughtful way, you know.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now I wanna shift gears and ask you about something that I think a lot of like I I've I don't know, maybe I'm weird because I've never really found myself in a situation where I've dwelled too much on my like romantic relationships, right?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: For example, but a lot of times on you know, in terms of this space where people are giving like actual mindfulness advice, a lot of it is about romantic relationships and how to deal with them and how to deal with, you know, pain or rejection or or anything that you go through, the emotions you go through, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I really want to ask you about this and you know, trying to understand how can we be more mindful in our relationships so that if things were to go down a road that wasn't ideal, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or how we imagined it, that we could actually deal with it in a way that was not going to cause this excessive trauma, you know, in a way in a way that like we could actually interpret why we feel what we feel and then do what we need to do to heal from that, you know.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like any advice you can offer in that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd be happy to.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, I I do talk about this in my book as well.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think so.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to cover everything.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get I'm gonna have to have my computer swept for for uh for for viruses now.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, okay.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I think the main thing is of course, communication is everything.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And one of, you know, we all know that that's true and that that it's good to talk about the things that are bothering you that are causing these conflicts.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the major factors, and this is where mindfulness can be really helpful, is that we don't fill in the gaps.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: We we stop the assumptions about the stories that we're telling ourselves about what's happening or what our partner's motivations or what their experience is.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now, to break that down in a like an example, let's take it to, you know, our partner come home comes home from work and we're like, hey, what's going on?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're short and rude to us, you know.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: We immediately think, because we're all egoic creatures, we think, oh, well, this certainly has to do with me, you know, like and now I'm now I'm irritated that I was nice to them and they came in and they were kind of rude and short or whatever, like I don't deserve that, which is true.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what one would do is typically kind of believe this story, this assumption that it's about them, that the other person's emotion is happening to them, and now they're going to be irritated and it's going to devolve from there.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: The mindful the mindful approach would be recognizing what's happening, and instead of assuming that it's about you and having a reaction and meeting that their frustration with your own frustration, asking them, practicing curiosity and patience, putting some space around it, and just being like, Hey, are you doing okay?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You seem like a little tense or like stressed out that you have a bad day.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then that would give them the opportunity to say, Oh, yes, I sorry for just I need a minute to just chill, like, sorry, today was hellacious.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's got nothing to do with you.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just had a bad one, you know, and whatever.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you can go, okay, great.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of your defense mechanisms and reactions and all that stuff fall away, and you can actually support your partner in that moment as opposed to piling on to the stress and frustration.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that little example is just to highlight that moment where we have a real tendency to fill in this gap in the story, make ourselves the victim, or validate our own reaction, our own emotional reaction, or something like that, you know, which then just adds to conflict that didn't even exist in the first place.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were talking about the double slit experiment.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we just brought that into reality whenever we really should have been supportive.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another another good example for people who are, you know, practicing some type of you know personal development, uh, this is one I hear all the time, which is, you know, whenever one partner in a relationship is practicing more of that uh than the other, what will happen because one of the refrains that no matter where you look is to let go of the reactive nature of your negative emotions, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you feel frustration and anger, you label it, you notice it for what it is, and then you let it go and try and proceed without being attached to this negative emotion.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens in people is they don't follow through with the whole lesson or they're getting bad instructions or incomplete instructions, let's say that, because what happens is people go, okay, so the whole point is not to hold on to my negative emotions.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, got it.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So then whenever they're doing the dishes for the tenth time in a row and their partner hasn't done them, and they start getting irritated again, and they're like, uh, like I okay, I'm frustrated because they're not helping, but let me let that go.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's no big deal.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's worse problems in life.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to do the dishes and not not hold on to this anger and just let it go and just move on.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's generally what people do.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they go, but why am I still so resentful?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is this giant?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was letting this go.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why is the resentfulness rising, you know, over time?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because they're missing the action part of it, you know.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the action part of it, like of course, we want to notice the destructive emotions that could basically to get into Buddhist language, um, to make us act unskillfully, which just means acting uh expressing our anger in a in a harmful way that is not controllable.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're just mindlessly expressing aggression and creating harm to a situation for no reason.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you would then recognize that frustration that's arising, like when doing the dishes, then let it let it go so that you're not operating off of, you're not fueled by frustration, anger.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Calm yourself, calm your body and your breathing, then have a conversation.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Then go have a mindful, compassionate, and clear conversation saying, hey, you know, this is like uh, you know, we've talked about this before, or maybe you haven't say, you know, I'm I am feeling a little frustrated because I think this isn't really equal.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd it'd be really helpful for me if you would help, you know, with the dishes more often because I'm starting to just feel kind of overwhelmed by it and uh whatever.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you can have this kind of this sensible conversation, and that's one of the pieces that people um tend to forget about a lot of times.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's that's brilliant.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I you know that makes sense to me because I think a lot of us, we yeah, it it's immediate, you know, and especially when romantic relationships are involved, it's so easy to be like, no, we're talking about this now, you know, we're gonna sort it out right now.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's so important.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I as you mentioned to yeah, step away for a minute and and then come back to it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I guess, you know, my my question is also, you know, in terms of how far we should go when it comes to allowing another's actions to be intrusive upon our own self-confidence or our own way of thinking and the way that we choose to react in our life.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's also one of my questions for you is like, do you, you know, is there anything, any advice you can offer there, you know, as far as like other people being intrusive in your own like bubble of peace that you create, you know, on the daily basis?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that's an important question.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, ultimately it's it's up to one's own level of of um choice, you know, like I think that there's a sensible threshold to look at where like if someone is constantly expressing their frustration or or negative emotions or something like that at you, and it's just a continuous thing where they're they're pulling you out of yourself regularly, where you're con constantly having to tend to their their influence.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a sign that it's too much.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're getting pulled into their world in quotes constantly, then and it's enough to where you're aware of it, then that's not good.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's that's where you'd uh you as one would say, maybe set a boundary or express like, hey, you know, this something has to change because I'm not trying to live my life just like perpetually dealing with your stress.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's because it's not your responsibility, it's their responsibility.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can support them, but it's their responsibility, they got to do their own work.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, what we don't want to do is it's just it's not, it's actually not good for the individual if you say, like, I'm going to insulate myself from any challenges or any like real life situations.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because of course, like you know, if you have a partner, of course you're gonna get frustrated.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Of course you're gonna be, you're gonna see things that they don't see about themselves, and like there's gonna be little things that you have to compromise on and all this.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's just natural, you know.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you don't want to be like, well, I want a situation where it's just nothing but green lights, there's never any issue, that's just not real, real life.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's not realistic, you know.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like those small things, like the natural things, those are the things you learn how to work with so that you don't, you know, like there will be suffering in life, but what you can do is try and minimize unnecessary suffering, you know.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, let's work with these things and find a reasonable level of how to deal with the challenges that we'll face in our relationship and in life.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's you know, if the situation you're in is one where you're not happy with where you're at with that amount of stuff, then that's you know, it's worth asking yourself a question.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, am I maybe this isn't the right relationship for me.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're dealing with those day-to-day kind of like challenges that are small, um, and you're still like, yeah, I mean, and you're comfortable with it, and you're like, yeah, this is just a part of life, but overall I'm happy and I enjoy being with this person, then that's that's a good sign.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense, actually.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, I definitely need to do that more is kind of re-evaluate because I I'm guilty of you know, being one of those people that if someone's like pisses me off or something repeatedly, you know, I'll just be like, okay, I'm gonna turn the other cheek and just go about my day, but then it bothers me, you know, throughout my day.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you just why even allow that to happen over and over and over again, you know, and and really have to ask yourself, like, why am I letting this happen multiple times?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned something earlier too.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna bring this up, but you've just mentioned it again.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm definitely or you touched on a point, I'm gonna bring it up.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is again, I I happen to touch on this in my book, but it's um uh something that happens regularly that I noticed uh and I noticed it myself uh years ago as well, and I just see people go into this, and that is mistaking peacefulness with passiveness.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you were mentioning like kind of turning the other cheek and being like, okay, I'll just it's fine, I'll let it go, and I'll just continue on, and then you start feeling you know negativity in of some way.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so that's basically what's happening is like we are mistaking uh non-attachment with detachment.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's profound.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that so that you know detachment is bad, non-attachment is healthy.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Non-attachment is what we're talking about earlier.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you feel an emotion and you don't let it overwhelm you and turn you into you know a reactive volcano, you go, okay, I'm feeling frustrated.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Here, let me feel it for a second, and then let me let it go and let me proceed with you know being thoughtful and a reasonable and emotionally mature person, instead of just being like, ah, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna lose it now and freak out and just you know, throw a tantrum or whatever.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's non-attachment.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Detachment would be allowing yourself to become this doormat where you're feeling you know the the negative influence of someone else, and you're okay, well, that's fine, I'll just deal with it and like I'll let it go and just kind of move on and move on.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: You there is a you know engaged level of um of uh awareness that we we need you know to deal with life because life is a collaboration of us and the world and other people.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be assertive and to uh kind of make our claim in the world, and we just should do it, you know, wholesomely and like positive, you know, not I think positive is such a kind of I don't want to make it sound like I'm talking about positive thinking.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just mean doing it uh in a mindful, thoughtful way with compassion, as opposed to doing it in a way where you're being destructive and like angry and just careless.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, to me, I think that's a good way to do it because then you're sorting through the issues of life, sorting through things that are sticking points and bother some to you, but you're doing it in a way that is constructive.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're and it actually brings relationships closer together, wherever you can have those conversate, those mature and you know, clear-minded conversations.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it also gives you it builds the confidence in you to be able to do that more and more and more in your life.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that just translates everywhere.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's it's that's really, really profound.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for for explaining that so well, because it is something I know I struggle with it a lot, and I it is very difficult to kind of find that logic in yourself to to understand this, you know what I mean?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and to understand like why do I keep doing this?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that why is for me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes even worse than like, you know, when when you sit and you ponder on like why do I keep doing this in my life?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like it's almost more agonizing to go through that constantly than to just address things that I I mean I don't want to say correct, but like you said, you know, mind in the mindful way, in the in the way that's more grounded, you know?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's just something that I know I have to practice.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And but, you know, beauty in general, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this was one of the big questions I did have, and I is this idea of like, you know, we love looking at ourselves in the mirror, right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then we internalize and we we kind of nitpick.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this whole industry, if I'm being very honest, is fueled by that, you know, that self-criticism and that self-like awareness or like hyper-awareness almost, right?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Of like all of these, like what we consider to be flaws or what we consider to be things that we want to change.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what are your thoughts around that and how should we be approaching our perception of beauty?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I think that's it's a a kind of a dual way of thinking about it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: One is, or should I say there's like a few factors.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: One is like it it's good to feel good.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: If there's something that you can do that makes you feel better about yourself, then do it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a beautiful thing, it's a form of self-care.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why I try and take care of my skin um and my face.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh however, if it moves into this place where you are gauging your value as a person on what your appearance looks like, that's not good.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where it turns into something unhealthy, which as you were pointing to, is generally the outcome of a very long, complicated, manipulative, capitalism-driven uh marketing world on what people, you know, particularly women, should look like and what products they should use to get you know to a certain look, and that their value as a human being will only be acceptable if they uh have a what what's marketed to them is an unattainable standard of look and appeal in real life.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like here's this picture of someone with their pores airbrushed off.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't look like this, it's like, well, you know what?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you looked like that, you'd die because you'd suffocate and get your skin, you know.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't want to look like that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, if you get to that level, it's bad.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do something because it makes you feel good about yourself and you're not trying to meet some unattainable standard and and you're like using it to gauge your value, then then that's bad.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I think that that's what happens so often, though, because it's exactly what you said.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, there is so much marketing in this industry.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I understand, you know, there's a whole like, you know, there's a whole machine that goes behind creating a brand and making it go viral and you know, all of that stuff.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: But and okay, that's fine.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: But when it starts impacting the way consumers are perceiving themselves, you know, it's like the beauty, yeah, you look in a mirror and you see like like you had mentioned the pores or maybe it's acne or whatever.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you internalize that, which I know a lot of us do, I know I've done it many times, and you let it become this thing where it's you know it's harming you, you know, and then you start noticing more, like every time you look in the mirror, like, okay, well, what about this and this and this that you might have not noticed before?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really makes me wonder, you know, is like where are we going as an industry when it comes to that?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think anyone is addressing it in the beauty space if I'm honest with, at least from what I've seen, you know.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, totally, and then the stress from that then causes more skin problems ironically.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the cortisol goes up, you know, all of that terrible like hormonal response that shouldn't kick in.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and here's the thing, Corey, you know, what's really crazy is people they also like like kind of spin that too, you know?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they it's like they make you stress and then they use that for more marketing.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then they go, Well, now you have high cortisol, so you should go buy another product, you know.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's yeah, it's crazy.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it doesn't it doesn't really seem to be getting any better, as far as what I can tell.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not the you know, I don't have some uh my finger on the pulse of the industry, but it seems to just sort of continue to be going in the way it's been going.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think that that's that's valid.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of the things that you spoke about, you know, in terms of like truly being mindful, like rather than just like periphery, you know, like superficial understanding of it.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that really plays a big role here because I think there is such a thing as like mindful consumption of products, you know, and like it like you do have to have this like understanding.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I really like what you had mentioned about that, you know, when we were talking about relationships, about stepping away for a minute.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe consumers could benefit from that as well, you know.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: If we step away for a minute and think, like, do I really need that?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like do I need to go get another nose job or you know, or whatever that drastic change you're trying to make, like just kind of reevaluate, right?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's I just think across the board, that's something we need to do, is just kind of pause sometimes.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, it just resonated with me a lot what you said, and you know, in the context we were talking about it, but then you can superimpose that as well, you know, when it comes to how we perceive our beauty.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the irony is that like no one really cares, like no one else cares, you know what I mean?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: About these little things that you said, like whenever you get hyper-fixated and detailed and like looking at yourself, like no one like I actually, again, this is really funny, but we're we're totally on telepathy here.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I use this as an example of self-consciousness in the book of like if you people have a tiny breakout and they like freak out about it and it makes them very anxious and just feel like self-conscious and whatever.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, stop and think about if your friend has a tiny breakout and you're like having dinner and you just what happens?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: You see it, it maybe you maybe you notice it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if you notice it, do you go like, oh my god, I lost my appetite, I'm I'm out of here, you know.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're just like you you index it, you're like, Oh, there's that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, next, and then you're looking in their eyes and you're having fun and you're in the mo, like no one cares, you know.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know someone that does care, if if you go to a meetup with someone and they're like, Oh my god, do you this breakout is this disgusting, then they're not your friend to begin with.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be in a relate, you know, you don't want to be with them anyway.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, why are you noticing my breakouts as much as I am?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Totally I I completely agree.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I Corey, I want to learn about your book actually officially.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you could tell us a little bit about it, um, what made you want to to write a book about you know all these wonderful topics we've discussed a little bit here today and and more, I'm sure.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you could give us a little insight.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure thing.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so basically, I started paying attention to um the engagement you know that I have online.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I reach about a million people uh a week um through my on my writing, and I started paying close attention to people's engagement, their comments, the DMs that I get, you know, and just because I I've become fascinated with like I would like to write to help people, but I only am going to perceive what I think is useful.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious what like the cultural texture is asking for.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are what is it people in in their lives are really asking for?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I do all the time is I put my mind in the mind of the other person.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll think like who would it, what would the person's life and experience in reality be like that would see a post online and comment whatever they're commenting or message me about this?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are they experiencing that would it invoke that type of response?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I just spent a lot of time like paying attention to that and taking notes and trying to get a real understanding of what are the the challenges that we're all facing today, and um how can we, you know, really move through those.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and the biggest thing that I I notice in people again and again is feeling like that they have this hunger, this urge that they can locate inside of them to improve and to really like get to that next place in their lives, whether it be personally or professionally or in the relationships or wherever, but they feel like it's just out of their reach, like they can't quite break through this barrier to make those changes that they want.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that seemed to be something that just everyone is struggling with.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, how can I really create this like roadmap that could get someone there?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we need to be able to break through that barrier and really get there?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I laid out this all the essentially the the the a linear journey which would take someone from starting to the place where you know ultimately I want someone to feel how I feel.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want someone to be able to, you know, I feel confident and I trust what arises for me, what feels good, what makes sense, and have the clarity and the patience and the systems of you know how to achieve those things.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like I I use so I use my own experience and all of these observations that I made to create this path.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it it ultimately starts by working through all these mental programs that we were talking about at the beginning of this.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: And why that's so important is because one of the things that holds us all back in in every part of our lives is that you know, we we get into these b behavior patterns of living and we live in them for so long that we start to mistake them for what's normal.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: We go, this is this is what's possible, but and there's nothing outside of this.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, that's just what you've gotten used to.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just like earlier, like we're saying, you could be a yoga teacher tomorrow if you want.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, no, no, I'm a doctor.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't have to be, that's just what you're used to.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it seems like you're that's you know what's there.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that you know, I I would prefer you to keep being a doctor as much as being a yoga teacher, just an example.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, do whatever makes you happy.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so we get into this thing, and so we and one of the things that keeps us there is those limiting thoughts, the overthinking, the imposter syndrome, the self-consciousness, the the self-fulfilling prophecies, um, all these things.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I lay out these actionable tools to help people identify those negative thinking habits, how to work through them in life in the moment, and start to break free of this conditioned, limiting way of thinking.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, you know, once you do that, you start to see these areas in yourself because really this, you know, self-growth and development is self-discovery.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: It all comes from self-awareness.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you start recognizing the areas of your life, like you mentioned.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, why am I just why do I dwell on this asking why I'm doing these things instead of actually taking action?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: You start to be able to see those things and recognize, like, all right, this is an area that I want to change.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and by doing that, you um start to foster a little bit of confidence because you you have recognized something that you want to address, you address it and you start working through it, that starts to build the foundation of self-trust and self-confidence.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, after I, you know, uh then I even go into helping the person identify, you know, the things that are valuable to them.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: What creates meaning?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: What makes you feel like what alive?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: What gives you that, what do you do in life that gives you that little extra feeling of energy that that raises you off your seat a little bit?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then how can you feature that more?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: How can you, instead of feeling guilty for sneaking away to do that, how do you make that more of a center point of your life?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's clearly what makes you feel alive.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: So why not do it more?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: The more that you focus on those things, the more meaning that you have, because now you've got receipts.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now you are focusing on things that are making you feel good, that are making you excited.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you can look back and go, Yeah, I'm really, I'm like, I'm actually doing these things, uh, you know, one one step at a time, and you start to build fulfillment, you start to feel happier with yourself, and then you can develop this, uh, you know, this sense of self-trust that allows you to then recognize, like, all right, what what is the the big thing, or or maybe it's small things that um I've been, I I've wanted to change, I've wanted to do or or go for in my life, but I haven't had the the courage and the self-trust to be able to do that.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, identifying those things and then being able to, you know, redefine yourself from someone who those things aren't available to, to someone who they are available to and they are within reach.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just lay out how to find your way to those things.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're you're putting this out there and you're giving us a guidebook to really kind of, you know, to to start doing this because I think a lot of times many people, and I know I have definitely fallen into this many times because we get so busy in our lives that we forget that, you know, you do have to take time and work on this.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't gonna happen overnight where you're becoming more aware self-aware and becoming more mindful.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you are writing this or you wrote this book and that it's gonna be available for the the masses to really understand how to approach these kind of life hurdles, you know, and and reposition the way you think.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's such a need, especially right now, you know, I can tell you in the medical profession, I know about 15 of my colleagues that would benefit greatly from reading, you know, something along those lines because we have these conversations, you know, they come up naturally.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the consensus is always like, well, I don't know, I don't have, I don't even know where I would begin if I started thinking differently about things, you know, and and and that's a real thing.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real phenomena where you get so wrapped up in life that you don't pause and find the right, like you had mentioned earlier, the right tools to get you through it.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I I love that you wrote this.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for sharing that.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I encourage everyone listening.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: You guys got to check it out.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where can we access the book, Corey?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where where do we go to get it?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you go to brave newyoubook.com, you can pre-order it and it comes out uh June 25th.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there's some cool bonuses that I put on that page.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you pre-ordered it, you can get um 12 guided meditations that I created that are all progressive teaching tools.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you start very basic and it gets more and more deep as they go on.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you can really spend a lot of time uh developing.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing I'm going to offer soon is a um chance for a one-on-one coaching session with me.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you um enter, you basically you're entering in, you know, there's the chance you'll get selected and uh win a one-on-one hour-long session uh where we can talk through whatever you'd like.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then finally, this is something that hasn't gone live yet, but it's going to is uh a writing workshop that I'm gonna do as well as a bonus uh for purchasing the book where I'm gonna help people um with their writing, but also help them how to understand uh how to make their writing go viral because that's something I figured out and I think it'd be a really cool thing to share with people.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're doing that.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think that you know, there's a lot of people out there that love like jotting down thoughts, but they never know how to really bring it to fruition, you know, where it's really touching lives and stuff.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's profound.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, and I'm I'm I'm really excited that you're offering that.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's fun.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun, it's a good chance to be able to like connect with people and just share some of those things.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, hey, you know, I'm really cheering you on.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I truly, truly love everything that I read um that you put out.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like I said, it helps me kind of get my own thoughts together, you know, every time I see a post really speaks to me.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what you're doing is just amazing, and I can't wait to see the many, many books to come, I'm sure, you know, even after this one.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for doing what you do and for bringing so much clarity to a very hazy space for me at least every day, you know.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate it.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I really appreciate that.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very grateful for it.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for doing it and for putting this out there and for everyone listening.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you love this episode.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you definitely go check out the book.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm going to, and probably gonna be, you know, buying a few copies for my colleagues because I think they could really benefit Corey from your teachings.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, surgeons have a way of of burying everything, you know, and not really.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: So sure, absolutely.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's that's amazing.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone listening, please let me know what you thought about this episode and if you have any things that help you on a day-to-day basis, like get through the day or whatever it might be.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:02:05
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• 1:02:10
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• 1:02:12
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• 1:02:27
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• 1:02:44
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• 1:02:48
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• 1:02:53
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• 1:03:10
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