Latest / The Elsa Kurt Show / How Two Violins Led To A Russian Spy with Gerald Schoeltzel

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How Two Violins Led To A Russian Spy with Gerald Schoeltzel · The Elsa Kurt Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest today may have one of the more interesting resumes we've come across in a while.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Gerald Schulzell is a trained musician who has performed around the world, an attorney practicing in Wills and Estates and Entertainment Law, a screenwriter, and now the co-author of Heard a Ghost, Love, Murder, and Revenge.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the story behind the story is almost worthy of a book itself.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Gerald teamed up with Leonid Primeck, who escaped the Soviet Union during the Cold War, after the two discovered they played violins made by the same Italian violin maker.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Their novel takes us into the world of Russian espionage, Washington society, romance, betrayal, and a spy hiding in plain sight whose past comes back to find her in a most unexpected way.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's welcome Gerald to the show.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Gerald.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, welcome.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Elsa.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me here.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's my honor to have you on.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that intro doesn't even do justice.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Gerald and I got to chat for a few minutes before we came on air here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I if I thought you were so interesting on paper just listening to you, I already warned Gerald guys that that we may go over our time because I just I just want to hear everything.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to talk to you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm equally excited.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is my first podcast to be a member of.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've listened to lots of them, but this is my first time on a podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and of course you're gonna tell everybody that after you've done like a ton of these, you're gonna be like, oh no, that Elsa Kurt, she was the best one for sure.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: The first was the best.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm gonna do the best I can to make it so that you'll you'll actually want to say that and not feel coerced into it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's see.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So um let me go down this list, and I know there's probably probably so much more than this, but you've been a professional musician, like in the big time guys, like a big deal.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're an attorney, you've written screenplays, and now of course you've written this amazing looking novel.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is there any one of these that feels the most like the real Gerald?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a really exciting and interesting question.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I have been self-employed most of my life.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't do it if it doesn't feel like it's authentically me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love my music, my music is my soul, my music is my expression, my writing, whether it's legal or it's creative, it's truly I I I pour myself out on the page.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're so multifaceted and in such different directions.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like attorney stuff is, you know, analytical and very book smart.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course the music is so creative.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I'm just so awed and envious, honestly, at your varied interests.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, were you always like that?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Was that always in you to explore so many different paths?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I've I've I've also been a scientist.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was in I was in pre-med when I was an undergraduate.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And by the time I got to the end of it, I realized um I like the science, but I didn't quite fit in with the people.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I went back to my music.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I realized there are many, many ways to help people besides giving them a shot.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me a little bit about those transitions because that that's jarring.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So uh correct me if I'm wrong.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you go from musician to attorney, or were they kind of interwoven?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I had a very nice career as a musician uh before I went to law school.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um I left Europe because my dad got ill and I needed to be closer.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I went back to New York and and worked and lived there and played principal viola in a lot of different organizations in New York City.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then after my dad died, my mom needed some help.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I moved back where I was raised to San Antonio, Texas, and helped her, and then started doing my music there and played in numerous orchestras and had my own uh chamber orchestra that I started with that played world music and a lot of tangos because that's what I love.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and then in the in the mid-90s, because of recordings and because of synthesized music, the the the future of classical music that I love so much is I mean, and who can't love the you know the greatest playlist of the last 500 years, but uh it it looked iffy, and I thought I maybe I need a fallback position just in case.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I applied to law schools that had uh an entertainment program.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, you don't specialize in that, but if you want to do it, it's but you need some courses like uh copyright, advanced copyright, sure, uh uh advanced uh constitutional law with the rights that come with that.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I applied and I got in New York law school.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I went back there, lived in New York again.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of my home away from home.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and then I ended up going back to Texas and practice law and music at the same time.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow, that's incredible.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just uh with the the law stuff in the entertainment industry, I I would imagine that that landscape has changed even more dramatically over the past, I don't know, what, 10 years or so, with uh now with content creators being an actual influencers being a profession.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So and they need attorneys and who understand that lane, you know, which is uh unique and and uh so yeah, I'm sure that world actually is is pretty interesting to say the least.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the world is changing so much in that area that the law is struggling to keep up, and you have to continually go to legal education classes and stuff to keep up with it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the cop copyright changes and it's a lot to keep up with.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned um you you've clearly traveled quite a bit all around the world.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you have and and please, if you don't mind, share share with uh the audience some of the just some of the places that you've been and then also if you have a favorite, is there a favorite place that you've been?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, it's really hard to pick a favorite.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I I like traveling so much that I I like to think that wherever I am is my favorite at the moment.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I've worked professionally in in southern Germany, southwest Germany, uh at with the uh Sudwestdeutsche Rundfunk, and that's on in Konstanz, Germany, on on Lake Boden, um on Bodensee.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then after that, I was with the Royal Opera in Belgium in Liege.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: After that, I was with um the orchestra in Nice N Cannes, and and I lived in on the Riviera, and that was pretty spectacular.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I would imagine so.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty pretty favorite.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, being half German, I found I was accepted as a native son when I was in Germany was really quite nice, and so I miss a lot of things about that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I and and certainly after you've been in France and lived there for a while, then the the food is great.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I've studied cooking with some world famous chefs.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was in France, I picked up a lot of really good stuff, and you know, what they say, it's like 24 different kinds of oysters, and if you don't know each one of them, you just weren't raised right.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just a a heathen there eating.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's funny.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I did a lot of festivals in Austria and Italy, and I have to say, there's a part of me that says, Italy is my favorite place in the world.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's something about my Italian instruments, there's something about my soul.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've had many past lives in Italy.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have uh feelings about that.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, it's nice to be somewhere where the the the lifestyle is creative, they don't make art.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: They well, they do make art, but they they also have it everywhere.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's not locked up in a museum.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: They have art, there's art all over, and it's a part of their life and a part of their lifestyle.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And as a matter of fact, it's my understanding that the Italians literally invented the concept of style.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that would not surprise me in the least.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are the they are so stylish, yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean the the French were not stylish until uh until uh one of their princesses was married after the king of of um France, and she's like, and that's Catherine de Medici, and she's like, I'm not going to that barbaric place without my all of my tailors, my cooks, my musicians.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: She went and turned France.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: She brought it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: She brought it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: She just brought it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's you had to study.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: You had, if you had a well-rounded education, you had to have spent time living and studying in Italy.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's something, you know, every time I see just about anything from Europe, specifically the ones you just mentioned, there they just exude this elegance about them.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and you, I don't even know how to, I don't even know how to put my finger on.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, it's it's the clothing, it's it's the way they style their hair.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, all of those things are part of it, but there's this essence that they have.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like a barbarian over there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I bet.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: They they and they didn't mind calling me a barbarian.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they yeah, they're not shy, right?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: After I left and I came back here for a while, especially things are a little rocky right now.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think they might be right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we are part barbarian.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think we kind of are.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think we got, you know, put us next to them any day.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: We we definitely come across as barbarians.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just nice to live somewhere where, you know, there's a sense of style for everyone as they walk out on the street every day.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you a such a more rounded view, a genuine view of the world around you.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, and I'm not knocking us Americans, but right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, of course, but you know, but we can call a spade a spade.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth is, for the portion of Americans who have not lived abroad or spent time abroad, um, you know, they're they're just culturally ignorant of of other cultures and what that world is like outside of their own world.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we do ourselves a disservice.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I'm throwing myself under the bus here.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have done very little international travel.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I need to broaden my horizons and and get out there and see, you know, just other cultures and other lifestyles and and uh I think it makes you more tempered in your opinions too, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just broadens your perspective.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't, we're not we're not ignorant in sort of the American sense.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're just ignorant, some people are ignorant of the broad scope of things and how things can actually be very much nicer than that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: You put that very gently and kindly.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I like the way you phrased all of that.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about um the writing experience.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Have you have you always kind of been writing along I mean, because I would think just journaling in itself of your experiences would be amazing.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh what I'm kind of getting to is like where where this story, this book started fleshing itself out to you.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um the screenplay began uh because my writing partner Leonid and I uh were noticing how prevalent it was for all these uh Russian spies and assets to be discovered in Western society.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he came from the Soviet Union, he escaped when he was uh afraid they were going to accuse him of being an American spy.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: His father had been accused of being an American spy and was sentenced to death, sent to a gulag in Siberia by Stalin and his regime.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they were white Russians, and uh the when the death sentence had not been uh imposed yet.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: He was still alive when Stalin died, and the political prisoners were released, but his dad was in the in the concentration camp or gulag, whatever you want to call it, in Siberia that Solzhenitsyn was in.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So Leonid has always written, I've always written, we still write separately and together.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's incredible.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you where did the the premise of this?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So is there a screenplay first?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a screenplay that won a few awards, and uh I went to a writer's conference in Spain not too long ago, a wonderful one, it's called the Roco Berti Writers' Retreat.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: They they only occur in castles, of course.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, of course, of course, and then uh one of the mentors said if you really want to get a better shot at getting your screenplay sold and produced, turn it into a book.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I came home from that retreat, and that's exactly what I did.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it there are there are a couple of reasons that are really important about this conversion of the screenplay into a book, and that is from the writer's point of view, you can get many, many more details and much more character development into the book than you can put in a screenplay.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that can help inform the filmmakers about your characters and help them actually create the world you're trying to create in your in your writing.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very good for the also very good for the writer because it's harder for someone that's unscrupulous in filmmaking to rip off your screenplay because you're you're it's you know, it's copyrighted, it's in the Library of Congress, it's you know, it's it's hard for them to rip that off.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: From this filmmaker's point of view, whether you're below the line or above the line, uh, it gives it it just fills out the whole picture of how these characters who these characters are, how they relate to one another, and the experiences they're going through.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the fact that this book mostly happens in high society, very rich people in the Washington, D.C.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: area, that's you know, it's opulent.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's not exactly that plus the historical references may not be the cup of tea for every reader, but for for lots of readers, it they will learn a lot reading this book.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: They will understand a lot.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Everything in the book is that is character or plot driven, is our creation as writing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Everything that is historical, including the school in Moscow, uh, is as accurate as absolutely possible.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Was that um difficult to do?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes I guess it just depends on who you are and your your style.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Was it more was it easier to put in the historical, or was it, you know, the factual historical parts, or was it easier to build the fictional parts?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if easier is the right word, but which came more naturally to you?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, here's where being half a lawyer and half a musician, half an artist comes in.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: The fictional part was fun to write.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And especially like the the chase scenes, the murder scenes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this has this is a 007 atomic blonde type, you know, espionage story.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that was fun to do.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I have a fabulous mentor that I got through these Rocco Berti uh retreats, and that's Joan Lane, and she's the one who took the stage play of the King's Speech and did the screenplay for it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So she's she helps me with stuff, inspires me greatly.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then so it was fun.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: She said, it's great, but you got to get more excitement in there, more chase scenes, more you know, more action to be in this genre.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that was fun to put in after the fact.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the historical stuff was actually kind of fun.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Leonid's lineage goes back to someone who was one of Catherine the Great's favorite lovers.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he's got a he's got a letter from Catherine the Great to his ancestor.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's very interesting.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So writing some of that stuff, like Count Orlovsky was a really big deal in that world.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: He ended up uh developing a breed of horse that still exists, and he and a breed of chickens that still exists.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, wow.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Resistant chickens, and the peasants survived because he developed this breed of chicken.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: So little things like that were kind of that were super fun to absolutely research and make sure that they were actually real.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and so we had fun on both ends, I have to say.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that because a lot of times, you know, I'll I'll pose the question a little bit differently and I'll and I'll say, what was the what part did you like the least and what part did you like the most?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I feel like if I had asked you that question, you probably would have said, I love the whole thing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love the whole process.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love all of it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that exuberance because one, I relate to it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love all parts of all of the things that I get to do.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's such a joy and and a privilege to be able to do all the things.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then the learning part of it, and and I I might just take a little bit of a guess that you love to learn.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably all part of it too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: That that's so amazing.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to get into a little bit of the story.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I won't ask you to to uh give away too much because we want everybody to go buy it and uh don't click away yet, because of course the the link will be in the show notes.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, but don't go click away yet.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're still talking, guys.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm being told by people who have read it now that it's a a fairly quick read because it's kind of exciting.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have to read the whole thing, you might not want to pick it up.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's perfect by the pool.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's like ideal, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs their their uh their vacation read, their, you know, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have a whole stack of them.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Something to do on the plane, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the title, it makes perfect sense once you know the premise, of course.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so normally we would say like, give your elevator pitch on the book, but for you, being a screenwriter, give me like the movie pitch.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you were pitching this to a producer, what would you tell them about the story?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would say that it is um filled with intrigue, romance, and uh murder chase scenes and a very tasteful, was difficult to write, uh um suicide scene.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it was, you know, somebody gets discovered and they're like, mm-mm.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that was tough.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was tough to write, but I think it's very skillfully crafted.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh if you want to make a movie out of a story that is not only glamorous and elegant, like James Bond or Casino Royale or whatever, but still has all of these other really interesting elements, including a couple of really exciting romances.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the movie to make, I think it's the movie to to see.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it in my head.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, um, for our listeners and viewers, um, take time when you when you go to Amazon to take a look at um the the book, take time to really look because that Amazon page for the book is is phenomenal.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It it I love the um so when you scroll down, guys, when you scroll down on the page, it you get this great uh view.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's awesome pictures.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um we used them in the beginning of this um um show.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um you saw them there.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Those are on the website, but they're such a great description and and a build-up of what what's inside the book.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool and so well done.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to either you or whoever did that because it's it's really excellent.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: They also did a tr some two trailers for the book.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's awesome.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: If people are interested in seeing a trailer, uh, they can go to my author website, which is geraldscheltzel.com.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there are trailers that are you can watch and get excited about the future movie.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: The future movie.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I look forward to seeing it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I look first we go in order.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to read it and then we're going to see.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have to do both.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You always have to read the book first.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody, anybody who's a who's a reader always knows that like the book always comes first.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to read the book.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So unless you feel like you're going to get disappointed that the movie didn't stay exactly to the book, but and then people go crazy.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have everything that's in the book because it's not enough time.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: There just isn't.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that people you're right.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that people don't understand.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to put in every single element that's in the book, it would be like this epic, although I don't know, maybe we could have a streaming series.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: That is possible as well.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would listen, I would watch either one, either or both.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So whichever one happens, we're just gonna will it into existence.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's magical.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, just to see it on screen, wouldn't that be so amazing for you as the the author, co-author?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't that be just incredible just to see that?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you would want to uh a say in everything, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't give it over to them.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, uh there's what you what the trend is now, and I would love for this to happen for me, of course, is you you bargain uh if a studio is buying your work, then you bargain really hard as a writer to get the right of the first rewrite.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um what that does, it gets you on set doing the daily rewrite.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're there to consult with if people want to, and you're there.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it'd be super duper fun.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I really I I know I'm in act three, if not act four of my life.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want to have fun.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Heck yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked a lot.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think anybody gets to the end and go, God, if I'd only worked more.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like I need to have more fun.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: More fun, make everything fun.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree completely.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of one of the fun things that you've gotten to do in your lifetime, um, just slightly sort of kind of back to the music, um, you incorporated that into your writing, correct?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: The it's not like just a uh a decoration in the story, it's it's an intricate part of it, yes?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a major feature of this particular story.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's see.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: There there was there's a school for extremely gifted musical children in Moscow, and some of the scene, early scenes take place and flashbacks take place there where Irina, this Russian uh prodigy little pianist girl, and Victor, this prodigy violinist, they perform together.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they've gone through this concentration camp like uh school for the arts there in Moscow.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a real school, it adds.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: You can look it up online.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's very beautiful if you rebuild it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um but they uh intimately know uh the style of the other person.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Musicians who reach a certain level have uh a signature, a musical signature, and they can be recognized by hearing them.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to see them.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just to know that is is amazing to me.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I have such a deep appreciation for musicians.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: My husband is a musician, um, and and just his just his intuitive understanding of uh I'm I'm always amazed by it because it's that's not natural to me.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So to see a band, to see, you know, in his small, in his smaller case, it's like four people for you, it's an entire orchestra, to have this group of people come together and work cohesively to create these beautiful um emotive sounds that literally can bring people to tears with their beauty.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: It just it awes me so much.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I especially like that you kind of brought that into the story as well.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing your own life experiences uh in that era, not era, genre, is uh is so cool.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be so amazing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh to get a little into another slightly different arena, you know when you're listening to the radio, you know the difference between hearing Aretha Franklin and someone else singing the same song.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can if I hear Pavarotti, I know I know his sound.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I hear Domingo singing, I know his sound.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's the same is true for violinists, same is true for for pianists.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the things that happens in this story.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: The sound of someone becomes a clue.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there you go.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: I heard you look like you saw a ghost.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, heard a ghost.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the long way.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I took the long way of getting to the title.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I warned Gerald before we started that I love to get there.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is heard a ghost.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I told Gerald that I was gonna take the long way to get to things because I just love I love hearing all of the stories.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love hearing all of the things in between.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, speaking of, I want to talk a little bit about your central spy is not stereotypical.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for one thing, she's a woman.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: There it is, right there.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it is our understanding that the spy agencies in Russia only send their very, very best to the US for lots of different reasons.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So this spy who is undercover as a uh disguised as a French wine merchant, she's very suave, very sophisticated, and very adept at different disguises.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like it, I like her.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: She's I've got a lot of really strong female characters in this story, and that was determined after the Me Too movement, and what we're like, yes, more great women deserve more great roles.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's write for them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that thought process.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Was it difficult uh as a male writing for or from a female female perspective?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think so.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think so.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I just, you know, put on a different pair of shoes and get a good go.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that actually that makes perfect sense.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a mental mindset, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, I I think the mistake some people can make uh, you know, when they're trying to write a a character of the opposite sex is that they think that they have to um, I don't know, embody uh certain characteristics.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And of course that's part of it, but you're really this is just a human being.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're this is a human being, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: With some different characters, some different mindsets or or perspectives on things.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we want different personalities for each person.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, it's not a one-size-fits-all thing.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we've got a real variety, uh, even within the women in this this particular book, there are um there's a lot of ethnic variety and there's a lot of uh personality differences.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like one of the people that uh the the main character Victor falls in love with is Catherine.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's an American Russian, her Russian family, you know, immigrated to the US.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she's got a sis, she's very bold and beautiful.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, extremely.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: And she's got this sister who's a little less bold and a little wacky.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean I mean, I that's a perfect role for some people.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's a great uh there's a great FBI character who's um Latina.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and it it's it's just super fun.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was just I was just gonna say, they must have been so fun to write.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are right, just to just to build and develop and create those characters that it just had to be such a blast to do.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's super, it really, really, really was a super function.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because you're you're kind of doing like this whole character study, like this whole, you know, what motivates them?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like a, you know, like if you're an actor going into a role, like what's my motivation?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's my but you really do, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: When you write these characters, you really do.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like what makes them tick?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, people don't understand how deeply we go into character development.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's their background?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how did they get to the way that they are?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, sometimes those things don't necessarily happen out on paper, but you're you're developing in your own mind, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like two, yes, absolutely.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And like two of the female spies, one of them wants to get out of it and live a normal life.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: One of them's no lie, like, no, I'm addicted to this.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So uh these characters and this story is so developed, enriched, and nuanced, and in all of all of the things, as I like to say.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, will there be, could there be, the potential for a sequel or a series, or is this a a standalone, this is the story, you know, closure, the whole thing?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh I think it would be possible to make a series out of it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's possible to do a sequel.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh it would require some skillful filmmaking, but that's it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: It could easily be done.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be a part one and part two thing quite easily.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um but uh some of our other writings are really, really uh they scream out for a uh a serial treatment.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: For example, my partner Lennon got scammed out of a lot of money.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of the victims of uh uh an international scam.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh and so we wrote a treatment.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: We wrote we've written a screenplay called Scam Burger about the scammed person uh luring their scammer country, oh, and then doing them in.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that is really very much geared for being a series.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's it it it warrants it, and so many people have been scammed in this country.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, there are so many people that will want to read this just to get some emotional revenge vicariously, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get some vicarious revenge.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he he grinds her up and makes burgers out of him that he feats to his his two dogs, Bonnie and Clyde.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Bonnie and Clyde, I love it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's gonna speak to a lot of people.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very confident.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us, um, before I finally set you free, can can you um give us any hints of any other projects that you might be working on in the future or currently?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yes, I'm working on I'm working on several things on my own and several with Leonid.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh with Leonid, we also we just finished book two, which is um it's being edited right now, and it's called Last Kisses Mine.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about women serial killers.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you bring the intrigue, you know that, right?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh um I'm also little by little working on uh a group of short stories that basically are my memoirs of different events in my life that have happened.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and Leonid has his life story that is somewhat fictionalized, that's already published and online.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Forbidden Dreams by Leonid Primach.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it really is uh a big book, and a lot of people say that they cried when they read it.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh and uh he's it really has three sections, and I'm really encouraging him to consider uh breaking it up into three separate books.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think he wants to do that, but I think he should consider it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Leonard, consider it, please.
• 35:35
  unknown: Exactly.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Consider we're asking you to consider it, that's all.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then like he has another book published that he developed these these characters uh for his children when they were little, and he read them badtime stories that he wrote, and they're that is they're compiled into a book called uh Siberian Cat Katerina.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, and people buy multiple copies of that to read to their grandchildren and give them as gifts and whatnot.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is so lovely.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's really fun because the cat is a the cat and her and the cat's uh owner are uh their darling, yeah, and they were abducted by aliens, and they were given these superhuman powers, and they're fantastically interesting.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the cat is the conductor of the symphony orchestra, and it just goes on.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, I love it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, very, very cool.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're both available on Amazon.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, just like you heard a ghost.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so wonderful.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Gerald, it it has been such a joy and an honor to speak with you and listen to you.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I am especially thrilled that you are working on some memoirs because I mean, we couldn't even, we'd be here for four hours if I if I started asking you all of the questions that I want to ask you about your your travels and your adventures, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we'd be here all day.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Forget four hours, that's nothing.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: My my friends are like, we sit around and talk all the time, and they're like, I never heard that story before.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: I never heard that story before.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so amazing.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um again, I thank you so much for for joining me in our audience today and sharing all of this with us.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I, of course, as I mentioned before to our viewers and listeners, I will put the show, I will put the links in the show notes, is what I was trying artlessly to say, but there it is.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: You did just great.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love you.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've had so much fun being in the city.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so glad.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: By you, I think this is the you're just the cat's pajamas.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: You are as well.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely adored this.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt a little bit like I was with family because you actually, if I showed you a picture of some of my family members, you actually resemble my family.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we are family now, officially.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a I've just decided.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm half German just like you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: So exactly.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're we're part of the same family.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't that be wild if we were?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: We probably are.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we really could be.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's actually I go all the way, I can trace my lineage all the way back to Charlemagne.
• 38:07
  unknown: Wow.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And Charlemagne, the you know, the first Holy Roman Emperor.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um they say that he was the father of Western Europe.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because he had five wives and five concubines, and he had multiple, multiple children with each one.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we could quite literally be related.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Quite literally, we could be related.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: How cool.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, we're gonna explain.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, once we say goodbye to everybody, we're gonna explore that for a minute off air here.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, guys, we're done talking to you.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've had enough of you.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: We love you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have to sign off.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, yes, now.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys, we will see you all in the next episode.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Gerald, I'll see you on the other side of this in just a moment.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody else.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody else, take care, and we'll see you in the next episode.
• 38:56
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