Latest / Authentic Living / Mental Wealth and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Mike Pagan

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Mental Wealth and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Mike Pagan · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, Ron.
• 0:36
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:38
  Thanks for tuning in again today with, 2 authentic living Roxanne.
• 0:43
  I have a special, I would say a friend now, Mike Pagan, who I met, in Ireland.
• 0:51
  Goodness.
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  It's it's almost a year now, at, the, global speaker's, annual event, which was I think one
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  of the best events I've ever been to, and, we were able to kind of chat a bit really briefly,
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  but recognize that we talk about mental health and mental health like Mike will talk about,
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  and it was just an area that, we both had in common.
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  So we've been chatting ever since, and we have a, some colleagues that meet, and so tell you a
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  little bit about Mike and a little bit about what we're gonna chat about today.
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  So his topic is building mental wealth, and so looking at mental wealth, from a perspective of
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  what are the things that you bring with you and what do need to gain, that kind of bolstering
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  to be, optimally functioning.
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  He is a coach He has, written 4 books.
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  He's a keynote speaker and, he starts his coaching sessions with a blank page, which I I
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  love that perspective when I when I read that in your bio.
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  Like, so, Mike, thanks so much for joining us today.
• 2:02
  No.
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  Pleasure pleasure to be here.
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  I'm I'm it's it's good to be, on the other side of this interview environment where it's kinda
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  right now over to you.
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  You talk.
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  Scary.
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  And and I've been enjoying, you know, interviewing some of our colleagues that I've
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  met since, I've I've met you.
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  So it's been it's been quite fascinating to get different perspectives and just different
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  people coming forward.
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  Let's talk a little bit about what got you in dealing with mental mental health?
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  Like, what what was kind of your path that made you pick that as a topic to focus on?
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  It it's it was an interesting, sense, because I had the privilege of working with, professional
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  sportsmen and women transitioning to their life after their career in sport.
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  And, a lot of these individuals, incredible athletes, incredible in everything they did.
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  They're they're striving for performance and perfection and everything else.
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  But all of them had this one thing in common, and that was the guillotine moments that came
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  down at the end of their careers.
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  Whether that be through, loss form, loss of, function, being dropped, whatever it happened
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  to be.
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  And and that at that point, there were thirty five people potentially in their support
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  network, keeping them on the pitch in the pool or on the track yesterday.
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  And none of them are fit for purpose for the way forward now because they're not needed.
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  And these guys then hit this massive brick wall of isolation and loss and direction.
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  And what I started to understand and research was the fact that actually that transition
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  space happens for all of
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  us.
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  Mhmm.
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  And there are many, many times where we feel isolated at different points be that as the
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  chief exec of a multimillion dollar business or as a solo printer, selling, products that
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  you've created in your garage and everything in between.
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  And and and it was just that that process of understanding that we need to invest in
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  ourselves in our in our strength of our mind and the strength of our well-being and our body
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  and our head and everything else around that.
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  To mental health became the sort of the ying to the yang of mental health, because it's it's
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  proactively investing and and supporting and getting the right people around you rather than
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  the other side where we suddenly find ourselves isolated with a team or support that are not
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  fit for purpose and can then take is down a negative path into a negative spiral of poor
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  mental health.
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  So that so hence, it becomes the yin to the yang.
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I think in the west, we often wait till something's broken.
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  To address it.
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  And, you know, Eastern a lot of Eastern philosophies will talk about you know, trying
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  to find that connection of that solitude or or kind of a combination of both, but, in the
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  corporate world here and I'm sure as a likewise in Europe, you know, you might know someone is
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  attention.
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  Let's see let's see if they've gone through something.
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  Like, you're talking about the sportsmen.
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  They were going through transition.
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  So they had to deal with a lot of loss.
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  They had to do with the fact that maybe they didn't get the accolades anymore of being on
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  the pitch or or doing wherever they were being.
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  And they were very, very structured in that, you know, and very ultimately very good at what
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  they do, but then they go through that loss.
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  And potentially supports that they perceive that will be good for them.
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  I would assume that eventually becomes, let's not work in so well for me now.
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  And then they have to adjust.
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  So I I think a lot of times in companies here, we're waiting for until somebody comes forward.
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  To to get help versus kind of, you know, proactively thinking what might that person
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  need?
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  Is that what you saw a lot with the
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  Yeah.
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  It's it's it's that it's that element of structured discipline focus, chunk, chunk,
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  chunk.
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  You know what you gotta do.
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  You talk to many sports people and they say, I knew what I was gonna eat when I was gonna eat
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  and how I was gonna eat for 20 years.
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  And then suddenly, it that was gone.
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  And it but then then look at the transition space where you look at a a student moving from
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  schools to colleges, from colleges into the 1st job to a graduate program to buying their first
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  property.
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  And so the these transitions that are constantly going on where if we haven't got
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  good people around us, proactive people holding as accountable, asking better questions than we
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  can of ourselves, then we make more mistakes.
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  And as we make more mistakes, then that can have a negative effect on on on our well-being
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  and how we go forward.
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  And I I I know for ex a specific example, I've made my greatest errors in business, and I've
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  been running my own business for over 20 years now.
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  When I've not when I just haven't taken that independent piece of advice from somebody that
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  I've empowered to I've given permission to to turn around and say, Mike that's not such a
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  good idea, or sort of have you considered it this way around?
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  And that and when we don't have people in our group around it.
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  Call it an inner sanctum.
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  I call it a mental wealth team.
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  It's it's what whatever language, what what that core of people who ask better questions of
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  you than we we do of ourselves, or they're questions that we are too scared to ask
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  ourselves because we know what the answer will be.
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  So we want to avoid it.
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  Or maybe we may maybe we ask people certain questions because we know how they're gonna
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  answer it because that keeps us in our comfort zone sometime.
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  As well.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  Just reinforces that that it's it's an echo chamber, but the, like, the, like, the
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  algorithms on social media.
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  Yes.
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  Of course.
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  It's right because 47 other people have said it.
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  That's the algorithm just feeding me the same stuff.
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  And so some of the time, we need that independent, that extra, set of lenses on it.
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  They're gonna turn around and say, Nah.
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  That's not right for you, but that only happens when we empower people and give people
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  permission when they're close enough.
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  So that's this brings a concept of vulnerability.
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  Like, I mean, and we know that's the core thing.
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  A lot of us, you know, maybe early on learned implicitly or explicitly, well, you don't share
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  too much kinda outside of the family, or you're only sharing enough so that, you know, you
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  know, we don't look bad or so a lot of people I would say on a, you know, in kind of my work,
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  as a psychologist is a lot of people kinda go, you know, kinda, one, you know, I remember a
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  family saying, they had a motto that was, like, nothing breaks us.
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  Nothing that they have this you know, regardless, you could be losing limbs and lots
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  of different things, but you never never go outside of the family to share.
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  So when you kind of think about people that you work with, Mike, how do they kind of look at a
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  connection.
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  Like, if they're coming from a space of, well, I we'd already you know, that means I'm weak.
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  If I need you, I I'm weak.
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  Right?
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  Like, I mean, if I like, I mean, I've gautious separation and, different things raise my son
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  on my own.
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  And I remember, when I was going through that and, you know, I was always the one because
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  maybe potentially the role I played.
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  I wasn't one that cared for others.
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  And what happened is my friends even said to me, is they waited to see what I would do.
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  Just to see if I if I could actually come to them because they knew I needed it.
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  And, of course, I was like, okay.
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  Where are you?
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  Where are my troops?
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  I need everybody.
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  Cause I'm spending my whole time giving.
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  Yeah.
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  You're giving fixing and supporting everybody but not looking after number 1.
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  And it's Right.
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  What what I what I heard there was that that the whole thing of vulnerability, and this is
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  isolation in the boardroom.
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  It's a classic example.
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  When whether you're a c suite executive or a senior management, whatever it is, you can't
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  tell the stakeholders above you.
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  You don't know the answer.
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  You're not gonna share with your co directors or colleagues that you're not sure what to do
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  next because that might get you against you at a future date when it comes to promotions.
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  Your husband or wife hasn't got a clue what you do anyway, but they'll they've got your back.
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  Your friends at the school gate at the sports club and the other environment that you go to
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  outside of work will always say go for it, Mike, because you always land on your feet.
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  Because that's what you want them to say and that's how and you certainly can't share with
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  an employee or a direct line, that you don't know which way to go forward.
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  And so this creates this isolation within the boardroom, within the, c suite within work.
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  It doesn't matter the size of the organization.
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  There could be 50 employees.
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  There could be 50,000 employees.
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  That isolation piece plays out across the board, and therefore, vulnerability Oh, well, I
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  can't do that.
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  The sports people can't show there's any vulnerability.
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  And and part of the one of the benefits I believe of, what's come out of the years of
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  COVID is the sort of the evolution, the evolving of this is no longer soft, fluffy
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  stuff that we need to ignore or can ignore.
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  We need to be investing proactively.
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  The next generations Gen Zed And Millennials will not work for organizations that don't
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  care.
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  Right?
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  Leadership across the Western world still has some very, very unique, mature people as in
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  years, that is not fit for purpose for the way forward.
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  They will move on over the next few years.
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  Right.
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  And then, hopefully, he says, they'll be replaced by more dynamic, more people that are
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  involved that will work and stand and get with it.
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  But but the there's a there's an extra element that we do really need to be aware of here, and
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  this is unintentional isolation.
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  And that it that comes from, the hybrid working environment.
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  So, 3 2, 2 3 days a week working from home.
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  And if you happen to be one of those 20 somethings, 30 somethings that are working from
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  your parents' spare bedroom, with a a fluffy slippers on, Netflix on on the second screen
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  over here, cat on the bed next to you, mom popping in every 40 minutes with a to make sure
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  you're okay.
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  That's not a professional mindset.
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  That's not an environment where you're gonna learn via osmosis from the colleagues around
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  you.
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  That's where you're going to.
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  If it's not working, going to go down a negative spiral.
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  So so whilst I the hybrid working is here to stay, and there are certain industries where
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  clearly that it can't work.
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  I was at the dentist this morning.
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  Clearly, that can't work in a hybrid world.
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  Yeah.
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  Just send your teeth in.
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  But but it's the so there's there's elements where the hybrid won't go, but we really need
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  to be aware of exactly what we're doing here to sort of prevent people being cut off, cut
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  adrift, or not seeing what's happening.
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  Be and then them not being comfortable or strong enough in that environment to say, I
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  need some help, but it's not because I'm weak.
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  I just need better help.
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  Right.
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  And I I think, you know, to your point, like, I when I was in corporate, I I remember, I was
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  just starting.
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  I was in my twenties, So I was like, I had an assistant.
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  So I thought, well, you know, I'm gonna share kind of, I manage a portfolio of companies and,
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  you know, at that point, and this is how siloed you really were.
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  Right?
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  So here I was, and I I would get paid commissions on the proffabilities of the
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  account.
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  I've got an executive assistant.
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  So I'm running the numbers and I'm kinda saying to her, I want you to double check the map.
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  Right, just to make sure I'm on and, you know, we're and I got reprimanded by my superiors
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  because I was being so transparent with my about the commissions that were payable.
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  And I'm like, okay.
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  So you give me an assistance, and this is, you know, obviously administrative work.
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  It's checking.
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  It's math checking.
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  And I'm using her because I shouldn't be sitting there trying to, you know, do the
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  arithmetic that may take me longer.
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  She could do it quicker.
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  And I got told that I needed to keep that private because in fact, the assistance should
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  know the level of pay that we would get on profitable accounts.
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  And I'm like, and I didn't I didn't think I was stepping into anything, but I was rep so it's
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  interesting.
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  Right?
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  Because you're right.
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  That you have
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  to an empowerment of staff.
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  If you don't trust the staff, how can you possibly expect them to be fully committed,
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  fully engaged, fully working.
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  It it it that that conversation, it that's so sad, but that's how it was.
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  A few years ago.
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  And but, still is in certain places.
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  Absolutely.
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  So now So two things, Mike, that I think is interesting.
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  I think you're right.
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  As we're transitioning out, we're gonna have, you know, the newer generations keeping the
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  older unless you use the older guard accountable.
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  So there's gonna be a bit of friction till we find that right combination.
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  But in the interim, we have hybrid.
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  Mhmm.
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  We have people that are, you know, gonna jump ship quickly if if they realize that they're
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  working for companies that have misaligned.
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  And in the interim, you you know, your your human capital we know is your biggest assets.
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  So what what is it that what is it that companies aware companies are doing around
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  mental health that you that you're working with versus
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  the one that you find out.
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  Yeah.
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  One of the things I I I love talking about is, we we people have gotten used to this
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  terminology of corporate social responsibility, CSR.
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  What are we doing to give back?
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  What are we doing to it?
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  Well, I'm referring to HSR, human social responsibility because it's that framework.
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  It's that format of, okay, what are we doing to proactively invest and support our staff?
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  What are we doing to proactively investing and work with it?
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  And one one of the key areas I believe is, we shouldn't need permission to do this.
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  It's a key point, but we do personally.
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  And that is permission to make ourselves number 1.
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  So when we when we put ourselves as number 1 in our world, that means, being positively selfish
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  because the wonderful language you've got is is selfish is one of those things when we're
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  children.
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  Don't be selfish.
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  Share your toys.
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  Yeah.
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  It's a selfish is a bad word.
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  We're not allowed to do that.
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  But, actually, in in my family, I've always jokingly been number 6 because, there's a my my
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  wife, 3 children, and a dog, and they're all above me.
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  Yeah.
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  And the last Christmas, we had 8 puppies.
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  So I was actually number 14.
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  But it but joking aside, it's it that
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  is the real
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  see, when we put ourselves number 1, then we are able to be fit for purpose for when other
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  people need to draw on our energy.
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  There's enough stories it for, from every religion out there about how we have to fill on
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  our cup first.
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  Otherwise, we can't help others, but we don't do it naturally.
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  We spent the whole time looking and helping and fixing.
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  And when we start looking, through the minds of of self care of getting coaches support,
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  getting professional networks aroundism, putting peer support groups, mastermind groups
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  together, then that changes the game.
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  And and self care is comes in so many different ways from from mindfulness and meditation to,
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  activities to just taking time out and pressing that pause button.
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  And we don't we're rubbish at pressing pause, but we need to press pause so that we are able
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  to re charge, reboot, recondition.
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  It it doesn't work without it.
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I think, you know, even, in getting a bit older, like, today, I know I have a 12 hour
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  day, So what I did is I went to hot yoga at 7:30.
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  Right?
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  Because I know that I have you know what I mean?
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  And what younger.
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  You're not, you know, you're not be you're doing it, but you're kinda you can be a bit
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  more haphazard, I would even say.
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  But as you're starting to get older, you're like, you know, jeez, if I keep up this, by
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  Friday, I'm gonna be, you know, flat out, you know, just kinda needing to badge.
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  So I think it's it's interesting.
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  Right?
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  Like, you're so right.
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  We do, and And I've gone, done done it horribly where I've, like, kinda looked at the end of
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  the week, oh, what happened?
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  Right?
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  And now I'm kinda like, okay.
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  Well, I need to do things differently.
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  And I think you're right.
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  It's that word selfish it it has such a negative connotation, but it and really what
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  you're saying to people is put yourself first so you can you have something in your cup to be
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  able to help others.
• 19:00
  Yep.
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  Definitely.
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  And in my in my new book, I talk a lot about that with ROR.
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  I talk about the leader knowing him or herself.
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  If those relationships returning, definitely.
• 19:09
  Yeah.
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  Like like, How do you know what do you like when you're stressed?
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  How do you how do you communicate?
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  How what's your decision making like?
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  You know, how is what what kind of micro breaks do you take through the day?
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  And, you know, if you don't, what do you like?
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  And if you do, what do you what do you do differently so that they could become more
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  connected to themselves to look at, I'm not so good at this, and I'm not so good, but I'm
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  pretty good at this, this, and this, but I have to work on this because if they bring their
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  best versions of themselves to work, the concentric circles that get connected to the
• 19:44
  people around them the benefit is that people are you're able to see what Mike's doing.
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  You're able to even if you're on the screen, you're able to kind of into it a little bit
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  better.
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  What's going on and be able to connect versus kinda, you know, you're not 7 47 or 30, 1000
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  feet, and you're not dipping down just to see because we know a lot of leaders, they have
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  that type of personality, that they can, you know, withstand a lot and they sometimes are
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  remiss in kind of thinking, okay, what am I doing that might be affecting people until
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  things are a little bit too late?
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  We know that with mental hall with us.
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  The classic one I I I'll share with you.
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  You you see the 4 pictures up above and around my head at the moment.
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  Yes.
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  When I go to conferences, I will always wear possible.
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  It's a it's a it's a it's a rule of thumb rather than rule of life.
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  But take an extra day afterwards to decompress.
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  Because if you when when you're at conferences, you were at your events.
• 20:46
  They're very intense.
• 20:47
  They're talking to lots of people performing main stage, delivering your your event, having
• 20:52
  the whole setup, to to the the the pictures here are just random ones whilst I'm out
• 20:57
  walking.
• 20:58
  The but a couple of them were from Vancouver, the the happiness statues, the laughter statues
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  that they're brilliant.
• 21:05
  Other ones were from Royal Claw in Poland, and they're just these little dwarfs that are sort
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  of placed all around the city.
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  There's 300 of them.
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  There's a wonderful story attached to everything else.
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  But but just from that sort of feel good decompress and look after number 1, it's a
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  great way so that when I return home, to my family then, I am in a different space because
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  I'm I'm I'm ready to be the family, Mike, rather than the working, Mike.
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  And then when you go back into work the next day, you are then in the in the mindset and the
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  space rather than turning up with your eyes hanging down here, bloodshot, and fatigued and
• 21:41
  everything going wrong.
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  And that makes such a difference for me.
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  But it's it's a simple one, and it does involve me being, proactively giving myself permission
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  to do that.
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  But it's necessary for looking after our self care so that we're fit for purpose.
• 21:58
  And I absolutely, and this is the stuff that I obviously, when I coach or or train, I'm
• 22:03
  talking about those things consistently.
• 22:05
  How are you taking responsibility for your mental well-being?
• 22:09
  So that you can, and if you're not having a good week or something's going on in your life
• 22:15
  to be able to be vulnerable enough, so to share, not like everything, but at least for
• 22:21
  people to understand that you're going through some stuff and maybe for them to have grace
• 22:25
  just like you would expect you know, the other way around.
• 22:28
  So I think that whole element of shoulder to shoulder leading where, if you do step into it.
• 22:35
  And we, you know, leaders do often, and I was a leader in many positions when I did, but to go
• 22:40
  back to the person and say, you know, I realized I was a little bit abrupt there, or
• 22:44
  maybe I was a little bit too direct and kinda down the middle versus kinda slowing.
• 22:48
  And I didn't feel so good for me.
• 22:50
  I'm so sorry about that.
• 22:51
  You know, It's been one of those weeks or whatever.
• 22:53
  So to be able to, you know, intuit what you are feeling and, you know, and then doing something
• 22:59
  about it, and that's that other person says, thinks, wow.
• 23:02
  Mike was able to do that.
• 23:04
  It's so nice to know that, you know, he's just like me.
• 23:08
  Right?
• 23:08
  And when you get people feeling like that, what do they want?
• 23:11
  If the relatable, we all wanna, I think, for the most part, do a good job because it it's
• 23:17
  kind of, you know, where we spend most of our time.
• 23:20
  So I think that, you know, that kindness from leadership is an element that I I talk a fair
• 23:25
  amount about.
• 23:26
  Right?
• 23:26
  Like We we always try to portray ourselves as invincible having all the answer and everything
• 23:31
  else like that.
• 23:32
  But perfect Peter has no friends because nobody can relate to him.
• 23:36
  Right.
• 23:37
  So so as a leader, if you're portraying this badger of perfection and everything is squeaky.
• 23:42
  And so then that may you can become aloof.
• 23:45
  You can become unapproachable.
• 23:47
  You can become well, they've got it all So what what what can I?
• 23:50
  So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go to them with my problems because they won't have time for
• 23:54
  it.
• 23:55
  And it and so as you say, it's like the it's that sense of humanity just sharing that scopes
• 23:59
  a bit.
• 24:00
  Oh, there's a reason.
• 24:01
  Yeah.
• 24:01
  I can talk to you.
• 24:03
  So tell me, if there's leadership teams or there's leaders listening, or some or someone
• 24:11
  even frontline, and they're thinking, We are so isolated.
• 24:15
  So let's say let's start at the top and say, well, what kind of guidance would you give a
• 24:20
  leader that's thinking?
• 24:21
  I think we're we're in a pretty connected environment.
• 24:24
  What are some of the things?
• 24:26
  Maybe three steps that they could potentially, you know, think about implementing or some
• 24:32
  things for them to consider about, kinda you're not gonna connect tomorrow, but to to kinda get
• 24:37
  towards, the element of connection with with your staff.
• 24:41
  Okay.
• 24:42
  The the the the first step there is understanding who's in that support network and
• 24:46
  if the support networks actually exist.
• 24:50
  And that there's a simple technique I will use where people subjectively score their network
• 24:55
  as to whether or not they are actually, close or or or part of their inner sanctum, or
• 25:01
  they're just a name and a database.
• 25:03
  Yeah.
• 25:04
  It's a it's a WhatsApp number.
• 25:05
  That's all it is.
• 25:06
  They're they're not close.
• 25:08
  So it's understanding how isolated that is because certain people will certainly realize
• 25:13
  Actually, there's nobody in my inner sanctum that I'm happy to be open, honest, vulnerable,
• 25:19
  and mentally naked with.
• 25:21
  And that they therein lies the key part of it because we can if we'd like that, then there's
• 25:24
  people that we truly trust.
• 25:26
  And some of those are in our friendship networks, but others are those in a
• 25:29
  professional network So it's it's knowing that that the next step is understanding what are
• 25:36
  people doing for themselves in the world of self care?
• 25:39
  Have we got a culture?
• 25:40
  Have we got an environment where people feel good about doing other things, or is it very
• 25:46
  much work to rule?
• 25:47
  And the classic example of that, my daughter, a a a millennial working in a corporate
• 25:54
  organization, as a student So on her year placement as a student, and the computer
• 26:00
  system, you have to be, working the whole time If after 15 minutes, the mouse hasn't moved, it
• 26:09
  automatically logs you off, which therefore the company then thinks that this person isn't
• 26:14
  working.
• 26:17
  Does twenty two year old, like, the young lady?
• 26:19
  That's the work environment she's got, and she's in her student in the house because it's
• 26:23
  hybrid working.
• 26:24
  She's a robotics and mechanical engineering student.
• 26:28
  So she designed a robot to move her mouse every 12 minutes.
• 26:34
  So it's, it's a sad story, but it's a fun story.
• 26:38
  Brilliant.
• 26:39
  But it's brilliant as well.
• 26:41
  And it's kind of But hold on a second.
• 26:44
  That's wrong.
• 26:45
  And and was so that's an extreme version of where, organizations in hybrid world are trying
• 26:52
  to keep control and not in power.
• 26:55
  And so from a leadership perspective, leaders listening to this and understanding hold on a
• 27:00
  second, we do stupid stuff like that.
• 27:02
  We do stuff like that that really doesn't embrace a culture of trust empowerment and
• 27:06
  love.
• 27:07
  We need to focus on that one.
• 27:09
  And then the final area I'd say is just this this simple process of pick up the phone.
• 27:16
  If as a leader, as a as a human being, whatever else, if your gut feels this, I haven't spoken
• 27:22
  to Roxanne for a few weeks.
• 27:23
  I have there's something just to trigger.
• 27:26
  Do not text them.
• 27:27
  Do not tweet them.
• 27:28
  Do not WhatsApp message them, whatever else.
• 27:30
  Pick up the phone.
• 27:31
  If you live close enough geographically, go and visit them.
• 27:35
  Because you do not know what is going on inside somebody else's world.
• 27:39
  And if there's just that inkling of something, we've that you you get that thing on social
• 27:43
  media that goes round rather hear from you at 3 o'clock in the morning than talk about you at
• 27:47
  your funeral.
• 27:49
  Yeah.
• 27:50
  I I I I love that.
• 27:53
  I love that because you know, it's so much, you know, the phone now, is is it's the ultimate
• 28:01
  barrier that people use Right?
• 28:04
  Yeah.
• 28:04
  Lock connect and, you know, just a simple, you know, like this and in my time, you know, was
• 28:09
  always about the telephone.
• 28:11
  Right?
• 28:11
  Like, I mean, I'm better yet you know, it's just kinda running, you know, seeing someone
• 28:16
  because I I, you know, when I, like, I met you in person and now I feel like I, you know,
• 28:22
  obviously, I know you.
• 28:23
  I could see you on screen.
• 28:25
  See if I had met you on screen, I hadn't met you in person, it I feel differently.
• 28:30
  So I love, and I think it there's nothing that replaces that ability to be able to connect
• 28:36
  with someone, to be able to kinda, you know, see other than just the, you know, a third of
• 28:41
  of who you are just to be able to kind of get to know the person.
• 28:44
  So I think sometimes it's just going back to those, basic things.
• 28:49
  So, so definitely no no your level of connection And if you're not so good at it, why
• 28:58
  aren't you connected?
• 28:59
  You know, why aren't certain people on your team?
• 29:01
  And that probably I would think would be kind of telling for you as well.
• 29:05
  What areas do you need to work on?
• 29:08
  So, like, for people that are listening and they might want to can with you, learn about
• 29:14
  your books or, coaching or or speaking, where where can they get a hold of you?
• 29:20
  SIM simplest way is either through, Mike Pagan dotcom.
• 29:24
  It's it's there's not many pagan surnames out there.
• 29:27
  It's not because I'm anti religious is my surname.
• 29:30
  So to come through on that, all via LinkedIn.
• 29:33
  I'm I'm I'm very active on LinkedIn.
• 29:35
  So that's a space where I can always have conversations and see what's going on.
• 29:39
  If there's ways of collaborating, supporting, and helping, that's, that's always part of it.
• 29:44
  I and the the one other one on a monthly, which everybody mentioned this, on a monthly basis, I
• 29:49
  do a mental well think tank.
• 29:51
  Which is it's a non sales environment.
• 29:53
  Anybody on there, is is is banned from any selling is just conversations in a safe space
• 30:00
  about things that are current in the well-being world, in the mental wealth world, what are
• 30:05
  people doing to proactively look after themselves better where if people have got
• 30:10
  challenges or issues within their work, it's a safe space.
• 30:13
  Nothing's recorded.
• 30:14
  Nothing goes anywhere.
• 30:16
  And that's always the 1st Friday of the month.
• 30:19
  So if you're pinging through or talking to me, that might be of interest to some of those
• 30:23
  listening.
• 30:24
  Awesome.
• 30:25
  Well, I'm gonna try to jump in on that at one point.
• 30:27
  So, Mike, thanks much.
• 30:29
  So I'm gonna think, you know, this is my challenge to myself.
• 30:32
  I'm gonna think about my support and see what area I might be lacking in and see if I can
• 30:41
  spend some time in quiet to reflect on you know, if there was a person that I wanted to
• 30:46
  join my mental health team, where might I find them?
• 30:51
  Like what how might have my approach though.
• 30:54
  So I challenge you to do the same.
• 30:56
  Try to think.
• 30:57
  Who's in your life?
• 30:58
  What do they do for you?
• 31:00
  And if there's sometimes an area where you find you're always struggling to get an answer from
• 31:05
  a different angle.
• 31:06
  That potentially might show you where a gap exists So go ahead and try that.
• 31:11
  Roxanne, just on there.
• 31:12
  I'm I'm I wouldn't advocate dumping friendships that you don't think are there.
• 31:17
  Just look at who's the 2.0.
• 31:19
  Who's the next version up that's gonna help you going forward?
• 31:22
  Because that friend can still be a friend.
• 31:25
  This is it this isn't about brutal cutting people off.
• 31:28
  It's about what is fit for purpose for your way forward.
• 31:32
  And if you need the next version up, Let's have an upgrade.
• 31:36
  2.0.2.0 version.
• 31:37
  You may have evolved past that person.
• 31:40
  Doesn't mean that they may not be a friend again, but a good point, Mike.
• 31:43
  Thanks for sharing that.
• 31:44
  So for everyone, thanks for hanging out with Mike and I.
• 31:48
  What I would suggest is if you wanted to know about your relationships.
• 31:51
  You know that that's the area that I speak on.
• 31:54
  So if you wanted to know if you're if you're kind of doing at home or at work, All you do is
• 31:59
  go to my website robsanderhodge.com forward slash quiz.
• 32:02
  You do a little quiz.
• 32:04
  You can do both.
• 32:05
  We'll send you We'll analyze that and make some recommendations for you with some next steps.
• 32:09
  And if you'd like to have a coaching, call with me just to check that out, please connect, and
• 32:15
  I would love to do that.
• 32:17
  Again, Mike, thanks so much for being way here with us and for everyone.
• 32:20
  We'll see you again next week.
• 32:22
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 32:28
  healthy change.
• 32:29
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne.
• 32:35
  Visit rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 32:39
  We'll see you next time.
• 32:41
  On authentic living with Roxanne.