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20. Women as Financial Decision-Makers: Strategies for Empowering Female Clients in Retirement Planning with Tanya Nichols · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: When they started, their job was to sit and look cute at the conference table and bring everybody coffee.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, you're the one at the head of the table, and somebody's a team member's bringing you coffee.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: So those shifts have happened over the last, I don't know, 50 years or 60 years and over their lifetimes, I guess.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of that stuff's hard to shake.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we really work hard at helping.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what I would love to see more and more advisors.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the planning space in general is growing in that arena, especially with firms like yours evolving and coming in and serving clients.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting better at that.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, hi.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I should probably introduce myself.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're exploring the intersection of women and wealth.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But more specifically, we're gonna dive into the insights into women who are the financial decision makers in their relationship.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And to have that conversation, because I don't want to tackle it just myself, I have brought in Tanya Nichols, founder and president of Aligned Financial, who has spent most of the last 25 years helping women retire confidently and aligning their money with their lives.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tanya, welcome to the show.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you're here.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ashley.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I always like to kind of start by having having our guests share a little bit about their journey.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a you know specific, unique, wonderful demographic to work with.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just curious how, from a journey standpoint, can you share a little bit about how did this come to be?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: How did you become interested in this particular intersection here?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to say, for most of us, for any of us who are lucky enough to kind of create a successful practice in the financial planning space, there's a whole lot of luck involved.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a little bit of how I landed in this particular demographic.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I started in the big banks, you know, 25 years ago, where you worked with everyone.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then over the years, eventually I hired a coach, limitless advisor coaching, actually, huge plug for them.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're like completely transformed my life and my practice.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so Stephanie Bogan and her team, they were talking about niching, which of course is like a big thing.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this was maybe five or six years ago.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the first assignment was to just look through who you're serving now, which seems sort of obvious, you know, in retrospect, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like who's who are you serving now?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't usually do that because you know, you just don't.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the benefits of investing in coaching.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And what I recognize is over half of my clients, the woman was the lead, or they were single, a single woman.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so then you just started pushing into like, okay, what is that?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: What would this look like if I kept moving in that direction?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what I recognize is every single one of those women, it just felt like a natural fit.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So as we give ourselves permission to kind of focus and where we do our best work, I was like, I just went all in.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: My branding is focused on that space.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: My messaging is all talking to them, helping them solve their problems themselves.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, really solid coach.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a part of it is in those big banks where I started my practice, there weren't a lot of people talking to them about the issues that mattered to them.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of our industry talks about what our industry says to talk to people about, especially in those big institutions.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about like the firm's message rather than really understanding people.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, just paying attention, like listening to them.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that sometimes some people are better than others at really tuning into that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, those women just picked up that that was something that was important to me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was a superpower at the time in a space where there wasn't a lot of people with that superpower.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love how you follow just those breadcrumb trails there and really tuning in and listening to yourself and giving yourself that permission to be able to do that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have found that at least in my own life, personally and professionally, like when I've done that, ultimately it's resulted in me being able to put out good stuff, you know, into the world, but I also feel better too.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: How was that?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious, like for you, kind of in following that path, those breadcrumb drills, and you know, really becoming focused in this niche.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, did you find that you felt more aligned, I guess, with who, like with who you are?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: It did feel really natural.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also my story as well, where I knew what it felt like to not have a sounding board or a thinking partner about my own financial priorities and decisions that I was making.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I since have kind of created that with colleagues and you know, I've got I'm involved in some mastermind groups.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have these other thinking partners that you work with, but you start to realize there's a lot of people that don't have that up.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we really do focus on with a lot of singles, a lot of divorced women, and a lot of widows in the last few years.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that idea of having a thinking partner on your finances, I think is really valuable in that space.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I are both women, so even for myself, I mean, I have I have Clayton, he is my primary thinking partner, but sometimes you just need another chick.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't mean I don't know, not that I ever wish that Clayton was a woman, but like sometimes I just feel like having another woman to be able to relate to as that thinking partner would just have to feel so great.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: What a gift! You know, I just think about you just being such a gift for them and for those clients.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So your practice really focuses on helping women who are those primary financial decision makers.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear that they're widows, pre-retirees, retirees.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit more, I guess, about who this woman is.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not to get into like marketing stuff, but like maybe from an avatar place.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is she liked?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is she concerned with?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share more there?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I discovered about this space is there's a lot of women who don't feel they've reached the pinnacle of success.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're successful financially, they are in leadership roles in their career.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our space is usually 55 and older, usually they're within a few years of retirement or already retired.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting about that is they would come to me, and this is for years and years now, they would come and they would there'd be kind of a feeling about like they feel bad about their money.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't say that they feel bad about their money, but it there's something, there's a little bit of a negative connotation associated with their wealth.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: What if I screw this up?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or a constant anxiety about what if something goes wrong and I'm not prepared.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So our aim, my aim, became like I wanted every single one of them to feel good about their money.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like just to feel good.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So some of our work is helping them.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that's a little bit unique.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And for the advisors that are listening that are out there working in this space, I think a part of our work is to empower them to make the decisions that are congruent for them.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I think back to my big bank days, a lot of times we were busy as advisors telling people what their goals should be.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of, and you know, we're talking in stereotypes here.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I recognize that this is not, you know, precise, but in a lot of cases, those women, many of us are, we want to stay in the lines.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: We want to do what we're supposed to do.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're getting instructions from advisors about what you should want, how your goals should look.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so our work became helping them decide what their vision of their life is, even if it looks different than other people's.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you want to feel good about your money?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's just letting them off the hook.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you want to help your kids and you want to spend a whole bunch of money helping them instead of feeling guilty about that, if that's your main priority, even if it means it comes at the expense of working a couple of more years, but helping your kids is what gives you joy.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to help facilitate that for you.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we really want them to figure out what's important to them.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think once their money matches their priorities, that's when you really feel good.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes a little bit to figure that out.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, too.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking, you know, you said a lot of really great stuff in there just around kind of who these women are, but the mindset piece.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if I think about a little bit more this demographically, if I kind of scale back, 55 and older, so what, born in like the 60s, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe in before.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that my math is right there.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So baby, baby boomer women, and I started noticing part of I think where some of the negative feeling came from is it's almost like we're the wrong kind of woman.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was a time in our lives when we weren't allowed to have bank accounts or businesses or to work when we were pregnant, you know, we would get fired.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is some stuff there that's hung in, depending on what generation you're a part of.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: It probably lessens over time, but I think that's kind of hung up there.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then all of a sudden, so we're trained for hundreds of years or however long, we're trained that we're not smart enough to handle money, that we can't take care of ourselves, and that someone else should.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So then if we are a woman who becomes tasked with taking care of ourselves by choice or by circumstance, there can be, I think, a sense of, I don't know, like almost failure or something associated with that subconsciously.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to train ourselves out of that in some cases.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm only 44, but I still have a little bit of that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and look, let's be honest, too, not to like pigeonhole women or be too, too stereotypical.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: But my experience in being a woman, having a friend group, primarily of women, seeing female clients, is that a lot of women struggle with this almost people-pleasing type of mindset.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And something that you said kind of earlier triggered that is what should I do, right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: What should my goals?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's almost this like judgment piece of what should I do, you know.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I could see where that generation, that baby boomer generation, where a lot of the outward messaging around what it means for a woman to be able to manage finances or have access to, coupled with maybe some people pleasing tendencies around, you know, I want to do this right for X number of reasons.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, whew.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Then all of a sudden you're in these director positions, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like high-paying, maybe executive positions.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're the primary financial decision maker.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, gee, gosh, golly, no wonder it would be kind of hard to like figure out right some of that from a goals or what to do with my money standpoint.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, even think about how they might have started their careers.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've talked with a number of C-suite level clients over the years who, when they started, their job was to sit and look cute at the conference table and bring everybody coffee.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, you're the one at the head of the table and somebody's a team member's bringing you coffee.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So those shifts have happened over the last, I don't know, 50 years or 60 years and over their lifetimes, I guess.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of that stuff's hard to shake.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we really work hard at helping, and I think that's what I would love to see more and more advisors.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the planning space in general is growing in that arena, especially with firms like yours evolving and coming in and serving clients.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting better at that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's I just filled a gap 20 years ago that was desperately needed to be filled.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: You are a trailblazer, a trailblazer.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so maybe if some of some, and maybe not for every woman who is a primary financial decision maker here.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, I don't mean in or want to position this as like, hey, every single female is struggling with this, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is of the baby boomer demographic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you have a woman that comes in, new client prospect, and you're going through, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of the onboarding, like all that stuff, initial relationship and understanding her and maybe even them as a couple, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: If she is partnered from your perspective, what are some of the more maybe, I don't know, difficult either limiting beliefs, initial like hurdles to work through as an advisor with a woman or a couple like this?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So my first, if they're single, one of the big things that I think can prevent moving forward, I guess, or it can be a decision-making like block, is being really worried about the future and who's gonna take care of me.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that one, even though it's a 25 year from now problem, potentially, it's still one that can like create fear that's maybe not, it's like coming up in other ways.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so we try to address some of those, like, well, what could go wrong in your?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we create a plan based on their priorities and like, okay, when when could you conceivably go part-time or when could you turn your paycheck off and have your pension and your investments replace it?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we create that kind of target plan, and then we move into this idea of what could go wrong, and we try to quell some of those things and almost like doing a little fear setting.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you've ever, yeah, like think through, okay, let's say we're there and you're 85 and there is no one to come and clean your gutters, and there's no one to come and walk your dog.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we do in that instance?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what does the money look like and how does that work?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So do a little fear setting around that I think can help move them into the next phase of what's possible.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, once we clear out all that like kind of anxiety and like fear clutter, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so those initial hurdles of attuning to, if I'm hearing you correctly, like attuning to the fears, the worries, the concerns, the what ifs.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God, I love like what ifs and that approach that you take of really walking through, okay, what next?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what if that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then what would you do?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then what would we do?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's such a brilliant approach to settling down, right, those worries and those anxieties.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, initial steps, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of do that, we settle that down, and then we start to reimagine, right, what's possible.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: How easy is that though for these, for these women or for these couple?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how easy is that then for them to get there?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think once you settle those concerns down, and it's interesting because a a colleague of mine and I were just talking about this, he leads with vision.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: He leads with the vision and the imagination of like what's possible in your retirement, which is super brilliant, but I think it's just like another way of doing it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I sort of lead with if you're coming to me with questions that need to be answered, we kind of solve those first and then we step into that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a little bit backwards.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that might be because of my nature, too, because that's sort of like I have a bias towards that, but I must attract people that might also think that way.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the vision part, I think one of the things we do is I share a lot about what my other clients are doing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think because I wouldn't call myself a visionary, like I sometimes have a hard time imagining.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I do look around at what other people are doing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll share with them.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, I had a client who came to me after her husband died, and we've only been together a couple of years, but she just retired in October, and she is on a uh hundred and three-day around the world cruise.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Good for her.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: In order, that's her retirement like thing.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been sharing that with tons of clients.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not everybody's gonna want to go on a three-month cruise, but just to start imagining, and she's single and she is doing that on her own, and she's like my idol right now.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm so impressed by this.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I am too, actually.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've had people take trips to Antarctica.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've had clients who are really excited about helping their kids buy a house because it's been really hard for that generation to buy a house the last five or so years, and to be able to stand proud in that space of saying, I can do this and still meet my other goals.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think they're able to make that transition.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to make sure that there's not that like scarcity kind of mindset getting in the way of what's possible.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think introducing ideas and like looking around.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that's where the idea of a mastermind, especially for the singles, can be really powerful.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, tell me a little bit more.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I know mastermind like in professional circles, but tell me a little bit more about this.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the same coaching group, Limitless, that I was talking about, there's I have I'm in a couple of groups where a lot of us were in Limitless and we just stayed in touch and we do monthly Zoom calls.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the things we've recognized on the single front, and I'm a part of another club, like a retirement club where I do some teaching called the Rock Retirement Club.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of members in that club that are just doing retirement together and talking about things money-wise, life-wise, et cetera.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those members, they've kind of created their own little group.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they call it the Board of Advisors or something like that.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It got me thinking about okay, well, I do masterminds.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's professional, but it sort of turns into personal too, because you get to know each other so well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times personal affects professional.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the singles, if you're bold enough and brave enough to maybe open yourself up financially to another group or partner or person, all of a sudden you guys could really start brainstorming on, well, what are you doing for retirement?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does this look?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Money-wise and life-wise.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think creating those groups, especially if you're single, can be really powerful.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it sets the stage for if you are in a partnership and something happens, because in that group I'm talking about, one of the spouses died.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when they started saying, like, hey, would you, if I'm gone, would you help my daughter and would you be the executor and da-da-da-da?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to be vulnerable and you have to kind of like open that channel.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that I think can lead to a whole list of possibilities in retirement.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, we'll be right back with the episode.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do, I wanted to take a quick second to let you know about what we do at Beyond the Plan and how we support financial advisors who are committed to growth.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: At Beyond the Plan, we specialize in integrating financial and client psychology to enhance your advisory practice.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: From client meeting facilitation, advisor training and coaching, even client onboarding strategies, we are your implementation partner and dedicated in-house expert.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at beyondthefp.com to learn more about our services and how we can collaborate to elevate your practice.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Together, let's go beyond the plan to deliver meaningful client experiences that foster long-lasting relationships.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, back to the episode.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, at least, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty soon it'll be millennials like myself.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be there.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what a powerful just experience to be able to have that kind of group or that mastermind there to be able to create and lean on and turn and turn to.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So having kind of encouraging maybe these masterminds, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Creating a sense of community, which is important in retirement, especially if you're singles, having a having a community thing.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you had a high powered career too.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 20:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you're losing a sense of community, I think for some of mine, that has been a big shock where all of a sudden you're like, whoa, my schedule looks a lot different than it looked before.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So building in some of that, and you may not call it a mastermind.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: It might be something that's, I mean, that's what coffee clutches have been forever, is some version of that, right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are intentionally coming in with an attitude of openness and authenticity and vulnerability, you can create the foundation for some pretty powerful relationships.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk a little bit, we, we, everyone, but there's conversation, I think, and awareness and recognition around men who, when they retire, especially if they were entrepreneurs, business owners, executives, they struggle with that identity piece, like the who am I?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And typically this is men, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: That we kind of see this.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think like this would be absolutely the case for women.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about myself being a business owner.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you were to say, like, hey, it's time to retire, like, you don't have to work, I think I would struggle from an identity place.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just thinking how even more important having a group of other, maybe professional women who are in that retirement place that can just be helpful from an identity purpose standpoint.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see like I'm making an assumption that these women struggle with identity, but like, do you see that at all show up?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you know what I see fills that gap a lot of the times.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is actually something I prep, you know, I prep people for to be prepared for other people to decide how you're gonna spend your time when you retire.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because that's a real thing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Other people and this happens to men and women, by the way.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a real thing where people think, oh, you're retired.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now you can be on this board, or now you can be daycare for your grandkids, or now you can walk my dog for me because you're off during the whatever.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: You don't do anything.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't do anything.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to lay that foundation early before they retire so that they understand if they're making the choice to let's say care for their grandkid, because that's a common one, or an ailing parent, that's another common one.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you've got four siblings, especially if there's an oldest daughter, oh god.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like the oldest daughter is gonna be coming in a lot of the time.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a lot of I do work with some awesome men and who are absolutely taking care of their mother too.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just women, but in that instance, not that you shouldn't do it, but that just do it eyes wide open.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to set boundaries on that time where you say, Well, I'd love to help mom.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can come in on Mondays, but what are the other options for the other days where she needs people to come in?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or sure, I can pick up grandkids from daycare three days a week for these months of the year.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But these months of the year, I'm gonna be gone in Florida or Texas or whatever, you know, in the Midwest, that's where everybody goes for winter.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think making sure you're conscious of the fact that other people are gonna have ideas about how you spend your time.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're anything like me and a lot of these women that I serve, if our value comes from productivity, like if our sense of value and purpose and identity comes from checking that box and checking that, you know, checklist, it can be really easy to say, oh, well, I'm not doing anything.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So in order to feel important and significant and valuable, I need to do something.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they said I could pick up the grandkids or I could help mom.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And now all of a sudden you're just going, going, going, going, going again, rather than maybe giving yourself space to adjust to that next phase.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great insight because I know that a lot of advisors, and not just with women, but when people reach that retirement phase, and if they do, as you said, find value or identity and being productive or just like being active, like sometimes it can also there can be complaints in there of like, oh, well, I'm busier now than I ever was.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, when I when I worked.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes advisors may have a natural propensity to encourage pulling back, like go on more vacations, like go do more, you know, relaxing, like enjoyable things.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's maybe great insight to be asking maybe these these women, but also clients in general, right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is does this fill your cup?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get some value out of like productivity?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: If so, like, okay, but I love what you said.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go in with eyes wide open and maybe if we need to like set some boundaries or guardrails there so that we're also protecting, you know, your own energy, your own well, well-being.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you kind of you walked through just kind of initially, like you have your attuning to these, maybe fears, concerns, initial questions like problems, and then you move into the vision, right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of part and our aspect.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else there that whether it's part of the onboard onboarding or just annual review process or even life stage transitions, are there any other unique things that you intentionally do with this female demographic?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: This may not be unique to my practice, but one of the things I try to understand is because we focus on this retirement stage and transition and life stage.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times we're talking about, you know, taxes and cash flow and vacations and grandkids and Medicare Irma surcharge letters and estate planning.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about all these other aspects that investments don't get a lot of play, right?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get a ton of conversation.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that might be the demographic that's attracted to me and how we talk about it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I also I think I've noticed over the 25 years, like when I was at the big banks and they said, this is what you talk about.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it just kind of became clear to me like the people that I was serving, that is not what they wanted to talk about.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: They just wanted to know it was taken care of.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just taken care of.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we work with a lot of delegators who just want a thinking partner to know that things are okay.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I work hard at doing is tailoring how we talk about their actual money and their accounts to how they interpret it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Almost like a level one, two, and three.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, how do you look at your statements?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: How do you interpret your account?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then trying to tailor the way that we share information about their investments in a way that resonates for them.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, rather than filling the space with a bunch of jargon so that I sound smarter.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know, I've got one client, he happens to be a man, where I have to say, like, can we talk about your money today?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this not a day to talk about your money?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's just like, he's like, nope, I don't want to do this.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's too much.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't really, it's not that important to him.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to be really conscious, in my opinion, and make sure that what we're talking about are the things that are top of mind for them, what is renting space in their mind.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it counts, you know, there might be stuff where I'm like, hey, we really got to zone in on this.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is important in this space, and I don't know, maybe just in financial planning in general, is they might not think investments are as cool as we do.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so to make sure when we're talking about it that we're meeting them where they're at.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, look, I'll be honest.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know all the ins and outs of investments, but I will tell you really the only thing that I care about is is that account going up?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um is it going up this quarter or is it not?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, that's like that's what I want to know.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like where and however it's allocated.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about that space of let's say over 55, that's closer to the end of their career than the beginning.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: For most of them, what they're actually thinking about is am I going to be okay?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can I do the things that I want to do?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and that's actually one of the ways we talk about the money is like, okay, well, if you keep on this cash flow plan that we've created, this is about the range of the estate that you would have, you know, when you're 95 or whatever their target is.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing I do if if they care more about the first 20 years of retirement, and that's their life and their choice.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm also, and you know, I know some advisors wouldn't agree with that, but my take is it's their money, it's their life.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if I give them a plan that makes sure they have got two million dollars at the end of their life and they didn't do things that they really love to do, and they're, you know, I had two clients die last year in their early 70s, and I just thought it's a real wake-up call.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: That our timeline as planners, their timeline may not be as long as we think it is.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they're okay with it to party while they're here for 20 years, encourage them to do it because that's might be what makes them feel good.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: But they do it eyes wide open, like they know what the outcome could be if they live too long.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I like that just framing of like eyes wide open.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, I guess then how that translates is awareness.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's have some awareness, let's create some intentional awareness and explore.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, what are all the possibilities here?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of around that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to approach that with sensitivity, obviously, because as you said, sometimes clients are like, nope, not a money conversation day.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't really want to go there.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, you mentioned a few questions that in terms of how you kind of approach these, whether it's about investments, it sounds like, or maybe other aspects of planning.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: You said, How do you look at your accounts?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: How do you interpret those accounts?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there was a third question there that maybe maybe I missed.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm putting you on the spot.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fine if you can't recall.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can't recall.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's more, it's more like trying to understand like, are they the kind of people that are looking at their accounts every day?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do they look at their statements?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do they look at it when the news says something weird?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like what triggers them to tune in?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we make sure that we're the primary source of information when it comes to what's happening out there and how it's affecting their personal life?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: What do you find then when it comes to these female primary decision makers who are boomers and baddays, right?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe on the professional like side.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you find that their answers maybe tend to be around how they look at their accounts or how do they interpret?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any like theme or commonality there in terms of how they answer?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is a range, I would say.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I do think we have a lot that just don't look.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they wait till they're meeting with us.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then our job is to, we're like interpreting what all the stuff means for them.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I do have some who have 10 years worth of net worth tracking that once when they come to us, they give us their spreadsheet and we put it into ours so we're able to show them their historical net worth numbers.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a range.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think I have very, very few that would ever have any interest in like what is our exposure to AI.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, those conversations are not happening.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's because of the foundation I lay, I'm not sure, but those people are not coming to me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if you looked at my website, it doesn't look like Barrelynch or one of these types of firms.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we're just not attracting those kind of clients that are really into the mechanics of the portfolio.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I know your present demographic, as we've kind of touched on a few times, these women who are 55 and plus primary financial decision makers, probably maybe even also breadwinners.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: How though, do you see the needs of women who are primary financial decision makers evolving like in the coming years?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe thinking about will there be any differences?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you have any, I don't know, insights there into the evolution of this woman and what she might be like or what her needs or challenges will be?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's pretty interesting.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure yet.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I think about at I'm 43, if I think about there's more people in my peer group that I think are pretty comfortable with the fact that, you know, we did this, but I don't know what that'll mean in 10 or 20 years.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, because there's a whole generation of women who have been, and and same with the baby boomer women, we were all being taught that okay, it's all equal and women can have whatever they want and you can reach for the stars and all of these things, but there really wasn't a whole lot of teaching of men about how to deal with empowered women either.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this whole little painful little transition that is maybe taking place.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe there will be more evolution.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think my daughter is 17, and that whole group, that's interesting to watch unfold because some of that, some of them feel really strongly in some of these areas, but then others are like, what are you talking about?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't exist.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like unfairness among men and women doesn't exist.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't really know how that'll look later.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, we'll still need thinking partners, whether that's our partner, board of advisors, or an actual professional, whether it's a therapist or a financial coach or a financial advisor, we'll all still need the help.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like at the end of the day, that service, those services absolutely still be needed.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I had the thought here.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if for women of our generation, we have these baby boomers almost to look up to kind of as role models.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas these baby boomer women, let's be honest, like they don't have like female executive role models or just role models for like how to do retirement.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know, like I just like the thought just popped into my mind, like, not that they don't do it right or anything like that, but like maybe it'll be easier, more natural.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because they've kind of paved the way or they've paved the way.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these women are inspiring me all the time.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, my kind of therapist heart is like remaining like super hopeful, like you know, there like we're gonna have great role models for how to do maybe retirement in that way.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, to be determined.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe in 20 years, you and I can come back and have this conversation and revisit this question.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I like it.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: See, see how that has changed, see if we were right.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And one of our themes is flexibility in our planning.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is key, regardless of what demographic we're working with, is just to what do we know?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't, we don't really know.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're all doing the best we can with the information we have in this very moment.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: We try to make sure that our plans reflect the same thing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's definitely a great way to to kind of wind us down here.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, I know we've shared a lot of, you've shared a lot of great insights, like nuggets here, especially around advisors, like working just strategies.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if you were to pick like maybe one insight when it comes to working with these female clients, one insight that you want to leave advisors with, what would that be?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: That money should feel good.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: It should feel good.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we don't always do the best job of empowering people to congratulate themselves that they did it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we do a lot of that around here.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is gold.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is gold.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm with you there.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Tanya, for coming on and having this conversation.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: It has been so much fun.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've really, really, really enjoyed it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for taking the time.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where if people want to connect with you, I'm kind of laughing because of the conversation we had before we hit record, but if if people want to reach out, if they want to connect with you, where can they find you?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am sort of invisible online except for my website at align.financial.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll make sure that we link that in the show notes so that if someone wants to come knocking, if they want to come find you, that they know where to do that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to all of you for allowing Tanya and I into your ears and into your mind today.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you found value in today's episode, I would love to stay connected with you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame where I share insights most days.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, not every day, but at least most days on the human side of planning.
• 36:48
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• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcast so that you never miss an episode like this one here today.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
• 37:23
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• 37:29
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• 37:35
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• 37:43
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• 37:50
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• 37:56
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• 38:00
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