Latest / The Discussion Podcast / The Lunch Discussion - Rob Heron on Four-Track Beginnings & the 'Underground Sky' Record - Aug '26

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The Lunch Discussion - Rob Heron on Four-Track Beginnings & the 'Underground Sky' Record - Aug '26 · The Discussion Podcast

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This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by... That's what you.
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Got here! Towerbird Learning in Nature's Playground.
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So today on the Lately Lunch Show, we've got another one of those artist discussions.
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And do you know what? I always like when I start an interview and in between
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us, we work out how we know each other and all the little connections that you have in life.
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I'm speaking today to Rob Perrin, who I got to know through Richard Irvine,
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who I do Guardians of the Vinyl Vault with and the Vinyl Vault previously.
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And the universe, Rob, actually works in this weird way of making connections, doesn't it?
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Yeah, it does. It's incredible, really. Actually, I heard you're a Guardians
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of the Vinyl Vault and really enjoyed listening to it.
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I heard about it through Richard. And I think I mentioned to you and I messaged
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you that I totally sided with you when Richard banned Radiohead from entering the Vinyl Vault.
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I thought it was outrageous. He was going to be standing on the door,
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you know, barring Tom York from entering.
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I thought, no, this is unacceptable. Well, I'm very glad to have you in the
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camp because sometimes him and Gareth, as the Jurani's, if you like, of the period.
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But they gang up on you, actually, you know. But that's the wonderful thing
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about music, and I've really discovered it as you do the vault,
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is that for me, music was never competitive, right?
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But you can't help but get drawn into a certain style of music.
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For me, I've loved all sorts of styles, genres.
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Everything. I can almost get into, but it, there is an emotional attachment
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that when you go and discuss an artist, you can't help but feel a slightly defensive in a way at times.
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Yeah, totally. Especially if you've grown up sort of listening to that,
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that sort of artist, everyone's, it becomes a part of your life, doesn't it?
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You sort of, uh, compelled. I'm the same with artists. I like,
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you know, there's artists that you really like that, you know,
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maybe you've done a lot of stuff you love that you're really passionate about
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and some stuff you're not so into, but you kind of.
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Sometimes wanted to defend their entire approach, what they're sort of bigger
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than the, you know, one album or something.
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Sometimes they have a big impact on your records, don't they?
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Especially when you're growing up. So, yeah, I was certainly on your side with
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that one. I'm glad to have you on your side.
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Let's just talk about you because, as I say, you're an artist,
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you're a producer, you're a songwriter, you're sitting today in your own studio.
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When did music enter your life, Rob? Music's always been there,
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really. I was very lucky when I was young, we always had a piano.
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And I did actually learn the piano, but I gave up quite young.
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I was never very good at reading music and didn't really enjoy it.
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So I used to sort of have to memorize pieces and then pretend to turn the pages
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over in the exams, you know, at this point, as if I was kind of,
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so I always failed the sight reading, but past everything else.
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But, but I've always had music in the house. Some parents were always playing records.
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We had a record player and I had, you know, older, older siblings really, who all had records.
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So you know i got into a lot of the stuff that they were listening to and so
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there would always be music in the house and then,
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can't really ever remember a time without music and so i got into pop music
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quite early on my parents always listen to classical stuff so i've probably
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got this big mix of stuff that i've unconsciously absorbed when i was younger but,
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the first real artist i got into was prince,
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because my sister caroline she had a record that was she had sign of the times
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by prince which you know was my introduction to prince i mean that was obviously a high point for him,
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so i just you know was kind of blown away when i heard that record i just didn't
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really know hadn't really heard anything like that before so,
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yeah music was always a big part of my life and i always sort of you know played
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on the piano and made up songs like you do and then eventually got a four track,
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i actually asked my parents you know could i get a four track recorder one of the uh.
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You know, out of the Evening Sentinel, I think it was, and the classified ads in Stoke-on-Trent.
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And that was just an absolute sort of, you know, once I realized how,
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you know, someone like Prince was playing a lot of the instruments on his own record.
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I didn't realize you could make a record all by yourself and just layer everything
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on top of each other so that was my introduction to sort of multi-tracking really
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well i got this forward track and couldn't believe you could you know put down a drum pattern and
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play a bass line and put some piano on and you know then bounce it all down
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and then start singing on it so that was really kind of how i got into music and,
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ever since i've always had a multi-track or something that can let you capture
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these ideas and i'm imagining that may have been around 86 87 88 types period
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was it or later yeah i think 87 was sign of the time so i was quite young then,
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and you know but it was just sort of quite yeah it was just a big moment really that was so,
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just sort of hearing those kind of records and then actually that was probably
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the first artist i really seriously got into and then you know i've got quite,
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a i wouldn't say obsessive sort of you know sort of,
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desire to absorb music but when you hear one artist that you really connect
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to it it was i just went through everything then all the bootleg style all the
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albums but that that album was,
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very different because there were so many different styles in it and you could tell there was a
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there was that electronic a sort of click track type thing on the the back of
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it and and you know you got that song goes young is the night and that's like
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a whole orchestral piece it was quite an incredible album.
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But at the time the technology was still pretty basic.
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Yeah it was very basic in fact yeah i mean when i had a four track i just kind
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of thought this is amazing you can actually record stuff but,
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i think as i sort of progressed making music i eventually got an eight track
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at some point and i i sort of made my first album mostly on an eight track,
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and i got into quite a lot of sort of quite lo-fi music i heard some early beck
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records when i sort of around the time i started to make my own stuff,
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and they were so lo-fi some of the really early vinyl only releases and 10 inches
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and stuff way before sort of loser,
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that i was kind of blown away that records could sound this unpolished,
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but sort of be released so to still be out there on you know as a on a format
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like vinyl so i was really inspired by that i was actually quite inspired by
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sort of even badly drawn boys early stuff when he first came out of twisted nerve,
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doing sort of very ep one and two were just again like really raw records sort
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of quite limited but again you know somehow just released in the way that they
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were and it was quite inspiring to think.
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Even even though you know some of the technology people think digital wasn't there at that point but,
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i think if you're making a record that's like that type of record the technology
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is a bit less important in some ways you can you know mix some analog stuff
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in with digital and i had a sort of analog front end and it was all captured
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you ended up on digital in the end you know but,
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yeah the the sort of high fidelity nature of recordings was never actually really
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that important to me i just it was more about getting an idea down finishing
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something and thinking yeah it's finished,
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we're talking music and we're talking production we're talking to the independent
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artist, producer and songwriter based in Liverpool, Rob Heron and,
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his latest album is called Underground Sky.
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We'll take some tracks off that. We'll be back with him in a couple of minutes time.
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You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the Garden Childcare,
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where little explorers grow naturally.
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So today on The Late Late Lunch Show, the lunch discussion is of a musical kind.
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And I always like these, and I especially like them when you're talking to somebody
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who has taken their passion and managed to actually produce stuff themselves.
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And I was never good enough to do that.
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Today, I'm speaking to an artist.
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You would go to heron.uk.com. His name is Rob Heron. His latest album is Underground
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Sky, and he's joining me today from Liverpool.
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So, Rob, those early days of foretracking and creating your music.
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What happened to that? Did you get it out there?
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Did you gig, or what happened? Do you know what? I've actually never done a gig, ever.
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I've never been in a band. I've never really been a kind of sort of thought
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of myself as a frontman, really, And I've not really ever been in bands,
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but I've always loved music.
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So I'd always, like I said, sort of from the moment I got a four track,
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thought this is possible to record music.
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And there was a time not that long after I'd sort of left university where I
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got an eight track that I really liked the sound of.
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I started making some recordings and I had just a whole bunch of recordings
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and always wanted to put a seven inch out. I'd always wanted to release a vinyl seven inch.
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And i managed to get a sort of what you call a press and distribution deal back
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in the day where someone agreed to you know press the records up and distribute
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them for me so i'll press two seven inches up,
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around about that time they were double b-sided seven inches and they weren't very uh
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you know particularly sort of mainstream sounding but i was really happy with
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the sound i had just you know in this room that i'd recorded at home in fact
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the album was called the brown room where it eventually turned into being an album
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that I named after the room it was recorded in, because that was the kind of sound of the room.
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And those two singles came out, and after the first single, I ended up sort
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of speaking to a few labels who'd been in touch and stuff, and I ended up signing
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to a label. The first two songs, the first two singles came out on my own label, Cracked Analogue.
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And then I signed to Hutt Recordings, which was a part of Virgin Records,
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basically. It was, you know, they had bands like The Verve and Gomez and Placebo
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and Smashing Pumpkins and those type of bands.
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So it was, you know, a really good label, but.
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And so what happened was then, obviously, you know, the thing was to make an
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album, but I'd already made an album of 10 tracks that I sort of got grown quite
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attached to. Probably got demo-itis, you know, I like the sound of these.
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So I didn't want to re-record that record. I wanted to just release it as it was.
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So we ended up releasing that. It's quite a limited release.
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And it was exactly as it was, just got it mastered in London.
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And that was an experience, just, you know, the first time getting a record mastered and stuff.
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And and it sounded quite lo-fi so the guy had to work quite hard to get it you know in in his way to,
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make it sound i was asking him you know who've you mastered this week and he
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was telling me all these huge names and all sorts of stories about them you
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know and then and he actually told me next time you bring a record in,
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make sure it doesn't sound as shonky as this one you know can i ask about that
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because i often feel that,
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as an artist or especially a band but maybe more so as an artist when you start
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working with a producer and you start collaborating with people and even somebody doing mastering,
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you you either have to decide to.
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Let go a little bit of the creative strings and let them add their touch to it,
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or you've got to turn around and say i've got a vision for this i can hear it
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this is the way i i want it because each of them are all trying to bring their
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own thing into it is that something that,
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has always been in the back of your mind about managing that it has a bit really
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i suppose thinking about it i've not really ever sort of thought about it in
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that way but actually it's it's really obvious i suppose that.
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I was very sort of concerned that suddenly everything would be all glossed up
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and I'd have to go in and it could just go in a totally unusual direction that
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you weren't sort of happy with.
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So I probably sort of stuck to that a bit more rigidly than,
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I don't mean what might even be good for me career-wise, but there's an element
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of, I think when you make a record, you know, I'd hate to put something out
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and think I feel a bit ashamed of this years later, you know, it really wasn't me.
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You know, I ended up going in and doing all this stuff to it.
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Because I think when you make a record.
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I can sort of handle a record not doing well in whatever way doing well would
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be, but I don't think I'd enjoy it to make a record that a lot of other people
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said, we need to do this, we need to do that, and then it might not even do well.
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There's no guarantees even that would work. So you'd end up sort of compromising,
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what you've created and you don't like it now and it didn't do well either and
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they didn't like it and nobody likes it.
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So I think sometimes if you're happy with what you're making creatively and
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you think well you know this record is what it is that was a moment in time
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it was the sound of a brown room and it just what was going on in that moment is i'm
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sort of comfortable with that even though it's very different maybe to the record i've got out now.
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But yeah i was quite sort of protective of that and in some ways i think they
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were understanding of the fact that let's put this record out let's kind of
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float this out and then we'll move into the next phase and we'll do this,
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but um yeah i was always protective about do you think in the 90s there was
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a little bit more freedom,
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and there was a little bit more of let's just throw something out there it could
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be different but let's see how it goes whereas my perception today and maybe
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it's completely wrong is,
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there's a lot more manufactured to a sound that they think is more guaranteed to be successful,
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i'm talking not necessarily from an independent point of view but if you're
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in a big label it feels to me that some of the artistic freedoms have slightly
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gone away unless you're a very very well established artist.
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Does that ever cross your mind do you know what i suppose because i'm sort of
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not in that system anymore it's quite hard to sort of tell but i suppose you you know you do sort of,
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if you listen to the mainstream and the top 40 i suppose you probably would
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hear a lot of that, you know, it could be quite safe.
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Um, I suppose just the amount of sort of the lack of budgets for bands making
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records, development, all that sort of stuff these days is so much less.
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That I would imagine that they're not taking as many chances on things as they once might have.
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And, you know, if something's a bit of a safer bet, you could imagine that they
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would do more of that. And I suppose as well, there's a lot of labels seem to
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be looking at how many people have got followers.
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You know, if you build it and build all your following up to a point,
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it's very easy for them to go, well, we'll pick this up now because you've done
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all the development yourself.
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Yes but i suppose there's a lot of bands out there who you know maybe that isn't
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their strength developing that side of things or maybe they're not really into social media and,
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you know they just want to make records or record music or play gigs so it's
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obviously a big area of the industry that's sort of gone it it,
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it does strike me we're in an interesting time because you know you've said
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you you've never played live there's some people who,
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can home produce home record and you know distribute music independently or
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otherwise and it can go big the industry is now it's,
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it is it feels like the pathways across it are are totally different to what
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they used to be sometimes actually it feels unnavigable you know it just feels.
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In a very weird place there's no there's no defining genre everything's up for
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grabs and you've got artists who are in their 60s 70s even still recording and
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still producing it's it's almost like,
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even though we've got more ways to listen there's so much content now it's really hard to navigate it,
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yeah really hard to sort of find anything i mean it is it's just an incredibly
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complex sort of time i would imagine if you know to.
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Sort of, you know, especially if you're really young and decide you want to be a musician tomorrow.
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I mean, I think, I'm not sure I'd advise it to anyone,
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but you know, there is this amazing thing where, I mean, I've always sort of
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thought going back to what,
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you know, when we were first talking about the four track and stuff,
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sort of, if you can do something yourself, if you can sort of find a way and
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you're really driven to think, just want to make this record,
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I just want to be in this band with my friends, you know, no one can stop you doing that.
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And I think that's powerful in a way. I think that, you know,
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I don't know how, I mean, it's very complicated to know how things are going
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to be monetized in the future.
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And, you know, you've got people sharing a big pot, well, a huge pot of money
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on Spotify that's been divided up sort of amongst artists, but a lot of those
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artists aren't even human now.
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So, you know, that sort of money eating into people's royalties,
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however small they are on Spotify.
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And you've got all this sort of change of the landscape. But at the same stage,
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I always think no one can stop me making a record, even if it's something you
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do in your spare time, even if it's something you take your time doing, creating.
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And I just think, you know, sometimes I think that's pretty amazing.
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You know, it keeps me going, I suppose. When you think about making a record
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where I think, well, actually, you know, there's.
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If there was a system like there used to be, I mean, maybe no one would even
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consider signing an artist like me. Who knows?
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But, you know, it's never stopped me putting records out and it won't stop me
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putting them out in the future. So it's quite a nice place to be in that sense
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where you think, well, do you know what?
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These are the tracks I'm putting out and, you know, there's no gatekeepers to
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tell me I can't do it, which is nice.
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That is one of the nice things about today. and those gatekeepers have gone
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but I sometimes wonder for younger bands,
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those gatekeepers also, as much as they stopped and they would stop, start foul, if you like,
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once you got going, they also guided you more, it feels today like the guidance
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may have gone, we'll go take a break and we'll be back with the artist known as Heron and we'll
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listen to some of the tracks from the album Underground Sky and we'll talk to
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him again a couple of minutes time,
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you're listening to the late late lunch show with back to the garden child care
18:19
where little explorers grow naturally.
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You're listening to Radio Altice, the Late Late Lunch show, and today I'm delighted
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to be doing one of those artist shows where we talk to somebody who's produced stuff.
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And I've got to say, Rob, the thing that gets me about music and writing is
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that it's a very personal, very transparent type of process because you're giving of yourself.
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And when you're 15, 16, 17 years of age.
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Part of the process is not knowing enough and and and being maybe embarrassed
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then you get to the stage where you've got all this experience and and it's finding the words for it,
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but it is a unique thing and it is very exposing do you find that or are you
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able to blank that out a bit it's quite a really interesting question i mean
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my first album looking back i mean i kind of,
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i probably should have been more worried about what people might think but it
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was a quite a sort of punk ethos in a way to put my first seven inches out where
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I just sort of always wanted to put these out,
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and went down a route of a quite an anti sort of commercial route in a way of
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you know doing those sort of early seven inches and not really caring what anyone
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thought but you know looking back you can sometimes think wow,
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can't believe I sung that or put that out in that way but actually,
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a bit like what I said to you before I'm never really sort of ashamed of anything
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I've put out in a way because it it was really, you know,
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sort of true and authentic in that moment.
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And it was good to be able to sort of express that with no sort of interference.
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And now, I suppose, as you get older, you could...
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So I start to overthink things a bit more and worry a bit more about,
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I always think of these, you know, like footballers and sports people.
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They say the older they get, you know, the more they start thinking about everything.
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You know, you came through on goal and you start thinking, actually,
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am I going to score this time or can I get it over the line?
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Whereas, you know, when you're 18, you're 17, Michael Owen, you know,
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when he came on the scene, he probably just, you're not overrored by anything
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that's in front of you and even the biggest situations. But in terms of me making music...
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I try not to think about what anyone else would think.
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I know it sounds crazy, but if I thought too much about what anyone else would
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think, I think it would really change the nature of how I write what I write
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and release what I release.
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And I think any artist, you know, whether you're writing books, poetry, painting.
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Writing songs, you have to have that element about you, it's the thick skin
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of just feeling like you want to be yourself and do your own thing.
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That that takes a lot of not courage but it takes sometimes a lot of stubbornness as as well,
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i i sort of feel in some ways it's quite sort of liberating if you can get beyond,
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the sort of thought where you know i suppose i've never really tried to make
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a record where i think would this be something someone would like or would this
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be a hit or would this get me a deal with this get in a movie you know this
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kind of thing because it's,
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almost impossible to guess what the whole world would like so you could never
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please everyone you might end up pleasing no one but i think the way i approach it is,
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it's just getting into a sort of zone of being creative and seeing what comes
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and then that could really be anything,
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so i'm going back to those early records when i was saying to you i listened
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to sign of the times and you were saying how many genres are sort of on that kind of record,
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is i've never been someone who's done one genre so i've never been like in a
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rock band or a jazz band or so whatever comes comes it could be like a rock
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track it could be a piano track it could be an acoustic,
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guitar on it but they all just kind of get made and then they sit on a shelf
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and think actually i think this is where it's going or this is the,
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this might go on a record but.
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Definitely don't stop to think you know what what would someone think of this
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there is a moment i think where you know you might think i can't say this or
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this wouldn't be appealing to anyone but it's usually would it appeal to me
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would it because if something moves me um,
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you know musically then there's a chance it could move someone else and it might
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be worth sharing but i think the less i think about those things,
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it's quite a sort of intimate thing really to release a record it's usually,
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yeah doing it doing it on my own for this record you know it was just myself
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involved in the mastering engineer but actually,
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i feel i really like that approach in some ways i'd be open to collaborating
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doing stuff with other people but,
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i think when someone hears your record and it's something that's been done in that way there is,
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a very intimate connection with the the listener because there's no one else
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involved there's nowhere to hide this you know simply this is who this person
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is and i think that's what drew me into some of these records when i listened
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to say the early Beck stuff you know some Prince records where,
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you know he sounded like there's some guy in a room making these really weird
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records with some of Prince's records but you know they really blew me away
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that that could be you know one person's vision and they were letting you into that vision,
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so yeah I try not to think of it in a way where it's brave or courageous or,
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you know what would anyone think otherwise I might become a bit self-conscious
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because this record is quite an open record lyrically I think.
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Well it's amazing, sometimes you can overthink it and then,
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you get caught up, we'll take a break and I want to come back and ask you after
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that initial period of the 90s and the days what happened then,
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so today we're talking to the artist known as Heron
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and the latest album is called Underground Sky and we'll be talking more about
24:01
where you can hear that and get that later on the show, we'll take a break and
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be back with Rob in a couple minutes time.
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You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the garden childcare,
24:12
where little explorers grow naturally.
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You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show on Radio Alty. Rob Maxwell with
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you today. And as usual, actually, I shouldn't say today, I'm always here.
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But today we're talking to Rob Heron, who you can find under the website heron.uk.com.
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We're talking about music and we're talking about, almost
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this has been a solo project for you from the very beginning very moby-esque
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as well i mean there was a you mentioned we mentioned prince but there's a number
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of people who have always managed to make music that looked and sounded like.
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It was collaborating but actually it was themselves yeah,
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like i mentioned i've never been in a band so there was never really any option
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to sort of you know know how to make a record in any other way but this this record yeah it's all,
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i never really think do these songs sound like a band sometimes you know if
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you put live drums under something or certain things can be a this sounds more like a band
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but having grown up on some of those records where some of it was electronic
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you mentioned you know some of those tracks sound like they're playing to a
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click on that sign of the times record and then some of them sounded like they
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were you know full band or but i've never really sort of,
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differentiated the two i just kind of think do i like the record or not so i
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think some of this record the,
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instrumentation is quite dense on some of it so i don't know whether it sounds
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like a band or not really it's not crossed my mind but then you know if you've
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got drums and strings and pianos and,
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some guitars and all this i suppose it could sound a bit like a band but yeah
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it just to me playing on top of each other you know so.
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When you were first recording and releasing was there a point then where,
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you had to decide to take a different track that it wasn't going to be as commercially
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beneficial or what happened after that initial period
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well actually what happened i made a second album that there was some collaboration
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on an album called heron versus heron and i went in to actually mix that record
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with a very good producer called jim abbess,
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who who asked me you know would i be open to putting some more stuff on this
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maybe even co-producing some tracks where you know we might bring a drummer
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in or we might do some stuff so i did that with jim and actually we it was you
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know we did some really good stuff,
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and that record was i did four tracks with jim where we co-produced them and
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so some of that sounds a little bit more band driven and,
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and then one other track i mixed somewhere else with a guy called hugo nicholson
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who's a brilliant mix engineer did screamer delica i think he worked on that record.
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And so there were some some interesting people i worked with on that but unfortunately
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just before that record came out hut recordings was closed it was shut down
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and there was a big colorful labels and stuff,
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so that record never came out for years and it's a bit of a long story i can't fully go into but,
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you know that was a that was the end of being able to release records at that
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point for a reason which was very disappointing just before that came out had
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been sort of mastered in abbey road which was an amazing experience i attended that mastering,
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and so yeah that was disappointing and then after that actually i,
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i didn't realize this actually until
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not that many years ago but i had a paralyzed nerve on my vocal chord.
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So I sort of went to see quite a few doctors who told me that they couldn't
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find anything wrong with it, but I've still actually got that.
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But it was only diagnosed after seeing a fourth doctor only a few years ago
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who said, you've actually got a paralysed nose.
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She stuck a camera down my throat and said, it's probably been there for about
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17 years. So I was having problems singing at that point, which is why I stopped
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releasing albums after Heron versus Heron.
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So I had a big long hiatus for that for,
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a long period of time and since then I've been doing a lot of vocal therapy
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I've actually had a procedure on it and I'm in the process of re rehabilitating
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that that that you know one of my vocal cords so,
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so that is really why I hadn't released a record for so long and I recorded
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underground sky in spite of that so I kind of just decided to I'm going to make
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a record even if she did actually tell me the doctor don't sing don't sing properly just yet,
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until you've kind of done but i did as much vocal therapy as i could during
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that time and then i just recorded the tracks just in keys that suited my voice
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really do you know i i do find that um there's a really interesting thing for singers.
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Which is you you start to realize that you don't have the same confidence in
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your voice as you get a bit older.
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And whereas I guess with a guitarist or drummer, while you might physically
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change, there's always a level of consistency and a level of dependability.
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But often when you're singing and you're never really quite sure if it's gonna
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go the way you want to, that opens up a whole different ballgame for you. You realize just how.
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What you say precious the voice actually is very much so yeah,
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and and you went through you went through that period that experience rob yeah
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i mean i actually just sort of gave up at one point i gave up singing i did
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end up still recording a lot of music that no one's heard and it's sort of you know,
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in my studio on a shelf and a lot of backing tracks and stuff but i sort of
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got to a point where i'd seen so many doctors who just you know thought it was
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all in my head or it was just you know something else that i just thought well you know what can i do,
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so but i did meet someone i was in india,
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and they said you should go and see this vocal therapist who's amazing and i
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did i spoke to her and she said she can't do any vocal therapy without me seeing
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this surgeon who'd worked with a lot of very very big sort of
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you know all sorts of people but some professional singers and indian bollywood singers and things.
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And she said you need her to you know see you first so she stuck a camera down my throat and did a full,
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up my nose and you know the whole and then she could see it and show me this
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is what's happened and she actually said it's been unfortunately it's been so
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long it's chronic now you know you've if it had been sort of spotted at the
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time it would have been much more helpful but for whatever reason it wasn't,
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so I just thought you know something's happened to my voice and I couldn't explain
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it because a lot of my some on the earlier records there's a lot of high vocals
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falsetto vocals that kind of thing so I just because I couldn't hit those notes,
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I just thought there's no point.
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But actually, you know, I can sing within certain ranges and it's getting higher
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and it's getting better.
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You know, it does force you to think, you know, how can I do this record? How would I sing this?
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I know exactly what you mean about the voice. And actually just the management
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of your vocal cords and your range and thinking about so many different ways
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to sing, it starts to, the thing you took for granted as a teenager, if you like,
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you start to think about it in a totally, totally different way.
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Totally different way. I mean, honestly, I completely took my voice for granted.
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I would have had no idea. I'm not trained to sing anyway, I've never,
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somebody's had sort of singing lessons or anything, but sometimes things just
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come a bit easier and you think, oh, I can do this or hit those notes.
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But sort of knowing, if I'd spotted that problem earlier and known what it was,
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it would have been helpful. But then there's tracks like on this album where,
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say like the opening track, What If...
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There's a lot of harmonies on that there's a lot of harmonies on a lot of my
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records but you know when the chorus comes in there's a sort of three or four
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part harmony and so you end up doing things i love pet sounds and those kind
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of records yes you hear just like you know in the acapella of that record if
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you know you hear the box set it's incredible,
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so you know there's always a way where you don't have to do vocal gymnastics
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but you might be thinking in a chorus here this just needs to sound thick and
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warm and you know a wall of sound or,
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but not maybe just go where it's appropriate now wherever you are well there
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there is that and that that that can work too i i want to take a break and then
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come back and talk to you about the writing and making of underground sky and and that process
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and and what you're going to do next with it so today i'm speaking to the artist,
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called heron rob heron um and his website is heron.uk.com the latest album is
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called underground sky and we'll be back with him in a couple of minutes time.
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You're listening to the late late lunch show with back to the garden childcare
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where little explorers grow naturally do you know rob i think it must be a lovely
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thing to have a body of work that you know is you,
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that you've produced and you've recorded and especially when you've done it yourself because
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not many people get even though they may be very good musically they often don't
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get to record or they certainly don't get to write and record and it is such
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a special thing to be able to capture that moment for yourself,
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do you ever think about that i do i do and a bit like um when we were discussing
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earlier about you know however sort of strange the music industry becomes and
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challenging and financially and that kind of thing
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just that being able to capture something and record something has in some ways
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never been more sort of open and available to people so,
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I do feel very sort of blessed in a way that, you know, if you've got a laptop
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and a microphone and an audio interface, you can pretty much...
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No one's going to stop you making a record. So I've always appreciated that.
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I've always been grateful to have, you know, had a four track when I had a four
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track. So I feel like whatever sort of happens, I'll always have,
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something to record stuff with so whenever that sort of moment comes when you
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think i really want to make a record or i've got to record something you've,
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you know you've always got some equipment however however big or small it is
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really i mean i've got a home set up behind me but there'll be plenty of people who've,
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got much more elaborate setups and people who've got literally i think was it
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michelle shocked recorded a record on a dictaphone in a field at a festival
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I think her debut album and
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you know someone signed her I think and put that record out on cooking vinyl
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years ago I remember hearing it thinking you could hear the birds tweeting in
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the background but it's a really raw record incredibly lo-fi but it exists and it was a moment where
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you know she must have just played 10 or 12 songs or,
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and and captured it so yeah I do I do feel grateful you know that we're in an
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era where you can record yourself so I never take that for granted when you're
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writing what what typically for you comes first do you hear a tune a lick
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and and you work on that or,
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and at the same time in parallel are you writing some lyrics but you're not
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quite sure how they're going to match up what what would you say is your do
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you have a consistent sort of path of of how you write.
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Yeah i think i mean i never write the lyrics first i've just never i've never
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done the lyrics first because i'd sort of i've always probably wondered how
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would you fit the lyrics to the music afterwards just not something i've ever
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really done it that way around and i've always just enjoyed making music,
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playing things on a piano or trying to play the guitar or you know whether it's,
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making some drums or a drum machine anything so i usually start at the piano
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or you know making some sort of beat or some sort of groove and putting a bass
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line down so it always starts with the music and that really informs what happens
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next always sometimes it'll just end up a track sitting there,
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thinking I'm not sure what I'm going to put on that yet, and I'll end up with quite a few tracks.
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But generally, the music, once I get into making music, I tend to work on a
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track until all the music's finished, and I've kind of got a full track ready for a vocal, and then,
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I'll start writing the lyrics to this track or that track, thinking this is
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the one. And sometimes I've got a big, long list of song titles.
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If ever an idea comes in my head, I've always got a massive list of lyrics and.
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Ideas and certain lines that you think that would be interesting in a song.
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But generally, I try and fit all that to the music. And the music,
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when I sit and listen to a piece of music, generally evokes something that makes
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me think this is probably the sort of thing I would say to something like this. Yes, yes.
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And, you know, then you might think even a bit more deeply about it in terms
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of if the music was, you know, really melodic and it could be a bit twee,
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you know, you might think maybe the lyrics don't need to match that.
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Maybe they could be something that's, you know, slightly contrasting to it.
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But I try not to overthink it, really.
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If I hear a piece of music I like, I just write lyrics to what that is.
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And having done your full album, Underground Sky, and you said,
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is this your third album?
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My third album, yeah. I mean.
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What drives you? Where do you want to go? Or do you not even worry about that?
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You sort of just think, I'm just going to go with the flow here.
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Well, yeah, it's a very interesting question. Obviously, with my voice and stuff,
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I am actually recording a lot of new music at the moment.
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But because I'm rehabilitating my voice, there's a lot of songs I've got that
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I think, I'm not sure this vocal would work on this track at this point. And there are some...
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Tracks that really demand uh quite a you know either a powerful vocal or
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a certain range of vocal and there's no reason why i can't transpose those into
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different keys and do different things with them yes but whilst making that
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record which would be my fourth album which i've got a lot of tracks for which
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i'm really sort of excited about but,
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it's the the difficulty has been actually how am i going to do these justice
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singing wise whereas underground sky seemed to just somehow managed to just,
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all the songs sitting at a piano this seems in a great key this is what i'm
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going to do here and and it worked in that way so so i am working on that record
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the fourth record which i'm some of them have got vocals on some of it sounds,
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great but i'm working on two other electronic records as well at the moment
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which are nearly finished so they're very different one's very kind of lo-fi,
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kind of down-tempo sort of,
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an instrumental record, which is very kind of groove-based.
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And then another record, I've never kind of done genres like this,
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but is a much more up-tempo electronic, say maybe almost an electronic dance record.
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Which is very different it's kind of got a lot of 303 acid bass lines and this kind of stuff so
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i don't read if i stop to think you know would this fit in with my last record
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and the one before it you probably say no it doesn't at all it's it's a radical
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departure but at the same stage,
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i'm recording it so i may as well finish that yes where it is and then i'll
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see some people might put it out under a different name under an alias,
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but i know another artist actually who's quite big and he but he's done a lot
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of stuff under a few aliases but he says no one ever hears his aliases stuff
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he wishes he just stuck it out on his spotify profile whatever it is under his name because
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there's some album that's buried in a in another profile somewhere so don't do that you know yeah,
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yeah yeah so i'm not sure what i'll do with those records but i do like them
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they are an aspect of me that you know i haven't explored and and i like so
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i'm i'm probably trying to finish those two off first
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it sounds it sounds like you would be well suited to writing a soundtrack,
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that would be very interesting yeah yeah i've never done that actually i've
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always kind of wondered again a bit like when we were saying about writing music
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to uh to lyrics you know it's like the wrong way around for me,
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you know i usually kind of write the lyrics to the music so they all fit in
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but i suppose making a soundtrack is,
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the other way around again you're making music specifically to scenes on a time
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code and but it'd be a very interesting challenge i'd be really interested in that well look.
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Rob it's been brilliant speaking to you if people want to find out more about
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you it's heron.uk.com the album underground sky is out now and i guess it's available,
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in all different download sites it's available yeah it's available on the web
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from my well actually i've only got three copies two copies left from my own website but i i'm,
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it's in piccadilly records vinyl exchange all the record shops in liverpool
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rough trade edinburgh it's in a few places so yeah you'll find it on the web somewhere,
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and it's a limited vinyl well look it's brilliant speaking to you and i love
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the fact that you you've done this i love the fact that you've actually been
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able to record the studio looks fantastic um and we'll catch up again,
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i hope so rod thanks so much for having me on i really appreciate it it's a
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pleasure thank you very much indeed thanks rod,
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this is the late late lunch show with rod maxwell supported by,
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tower bird learning in nature's playground.