Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Unmasking ADHD in your Wedding Business - with Nicole Winer

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Unmasking ADHD in your Wedding Business - with Nicole Winer · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Nicole: Come back to what you need and what is important for you.
• 0:04
  Okay.
• 0:04
  You're listening to Becca and you're like, yeah, I would love to go to Vegas.
• 0:07
  And that is actually something I want to do.
• 0:09
  Great.
• 0:09
  If that's what you'd want to do.
• 0:11
  If you're listening and you're hearing this, like my side of the
• 0:13
  conversation here and being like, Oh no, actually that's not really for me.
• 0:16
  And I'd prefer maybe a few online things or actually just to create
• 0:19
  a community in a different way.
• 0:21
  Fine.
• 0:21
  Like it's okay.
• 0:23
  And actually.
• 0:24
  The right people are going to get it.
• 0:26
  So the people who don't get it aren't the right people, even
• 0:29
  if they are, they're similar to you or they're different to you.
• 0:31
  The right people, even if you're different, are going to get it.
• 0:36
  Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing
• 0:38
  expert, speaker, and blogger.
• 0:40
  And you're listening to the Wedding Pros who are ready to grow podcast.
• 0:44
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life
• 0:47
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:51
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:54
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
• 0:58
  love, then you're in the right place.
• 1:00
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 1:03
  Today I'm chatting with Nicole Weiner.
• 1:05
  Nicole is a business strategist, mentor and coach.
• 1:08
  As a former global investment banker, she has a huge wealth of experience.
• 1:12
  Nicole is passionate about bringing more kindness into business through
• 1:16
  building supportive communities.
• 1:18
  And as you know, I'm all about that.
• 1:21
  It's my kind of ethos.
• 1:22
  I came across Nicole in a business community I'm in, and when I saw
• 1:25
  her speaking topics, I knew I needed to get her onto the podcast
• 1:29
  to explore the subject further.
• 1:30
  If I'm completely honest, it's a subject I just don't know enough about.
• 1:34
  So I'm going to be learning through this episode too.
• 1:36
  So let's get into it.
• 1:37
  Nicole, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:39
  Nicole: Hello, thank you for having me.
• 1:42
  Becca: I am so excited to have you.
• 1:44
  Now, as I was just talking to you about before we hit record, I
• 1:47
  saw your post in another business group that we're both part of.
• 1:51
  all about running a business with ADHD and I am increasingly having
• 1:56
  conversations with my clients and my friends who have had recent diagnoses
• 2:01
  of ADHD or have started to consider whether it is something that's
• 2:05
  going on in their life or have some of those kind of characteristics.
• 2:09
  So as we get into this subject, for people who don't know anything at all, I would
• 2:13
  love you to just start by explaining to us what is ADHD, what does it stand for
• 2:18
  and what are the characteristics of it.
• 2:20
  Nicole: Okay, it's a great question.
• 2:21
  So attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, which I am not in love
• 2:27
  with the, the meaning of it.
• 2:29
  Right, right.
• 2:29
  The actual words.
• 2:30
  But, essentially, it's about how your brain operates, how you're motivated
• 2:36
  to take action based on things like dopamine, which is like the feel good
• 2:42
  motivational hormone that exists in your brain, and how, yeah, what you
• 2:47
  do, how you do it, and also your ability to be able to make decisions.
• 2:53
  So that's your executive function, so if we take that back to what we
• 2:57
  know about the brain from psychology.
• 3:00
  That is all about, you know, there's one part of your brain
• 3:03
  that helps you to make decisions.
• 3:04
  It's like the driving seat.
• 3:05
  It's the CEO of your brain.
• 3:07
  It like makes all the strategic decisions and it does all of that stuff.
• 3:10
  And then you've got the back part of your brain that is more
• 3:13
  driven by response to stimulus.
• 3:16
  So things that make you feel anxious or fear or imposter syndrome or those things.
• 3:21
  And when your brain is sitting in that fear space, it cannot move
• 3:25
  into your executive function.
• 3:27
  And the way that ADHD brains.
• 3:29
  move into the executive function is with dopamine.
• 3:32
  Becca: Okay.
• 3:33
  Right.
• 3:33
  There's a lot of sciencey language there straight away, but I knew this is why I
• 3:38
  need to get you on because not only are you a business strategist, but you've
• 3:41
  got a background in studying psychology.
• 3:44
  You really understand how the brain works.
• 3:47
  So.
• 3:48
  If we take away the science for a moment, how might this present
• 3:52
  itself practically in someone's life?
• 3:54
  Nicole: It really depends, and that's a bit of a, it's, it's,
• 3:58
  it's a not answer answer, but it's, but it really, really depends.
• 4:02
  And this is so individual for each person.
• 4:05
  And there's also huge differences between how this presents in
• 4:08
  children and adults, and also how this presents with the genders.
• 4:12
  Okay, interesting.
• 4:13
  So it shows up very, very, and I think most of your audience are women.
• 4:17
  It shows up very differently for women as it does for men.
• 4:21
  And a lot of, you know, what we understood and understand still actually around ADHD
• 4:25
  is around naughty little school boys.
• 4:29
  But women, girls do not tend to present in the same way.
• 4:34
  The hyperactivity part doesn't tend to show in the body.
• 4:38
  It tends to show in the mind.
• 4:40
  So the overthinking, that's where a lot of imposter syndrome stuff
• 4:43
  comes from, when people overthink.
• 4:45
  I'm a classic overthinker.
• 4:47
  The rhetoric in my brain is fast and it doesn't stop, like I have
• 4:51
  one setting in my brain which is on.
• 4:53
  So it's, it's about that and, and yeah, noticing the difference in how
• 4:58
  it shows up between Boys and girls, men and women and adults and children.
• 5:02
  Becca: Fascinating and I guess it's something that we're learning about
• 5:05
  more and more all of the time because even in the last decade I would say
• 5:09
  that people are talking about it a lot more and probably in the last
• 5:12
  five years increasingly so as we start to understand it more and more.
• 5:17
  Now I would love to get into a little bit of your own journey because this is what
• 5:21
  I found really fascinating about you.
• 5:22
  You've, you've done some global investment banking.
• 5:27
  run your own very successful business and still are.
• 5:30
  And when you talk about yourself, you describe yourself as having
• 5:34
  ADHD, being neurodiverse.
• 5:37
  How did that come about?
• 5:39
  How did you come to that conclusion?
• 5:41
  Have you known for a long time?
• 5:42
  Is it more of a recent diagnosis?
• 5:44
  Is it self diagnosis?
• 5:45
  I'd love to just understand a bit more about your journey.
• 5:48
  Nicole: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:49
  So it's self diagnosis.
• 5:50
  I'm very, well, as much as we all can be, I'm very self aware.
• 5:54
  And the reason, the way that I came around to realizing it, thinking it,
• 5:59
  being curious about it, which again is a classic ADHD trait of being very curious
• 6:03
  about gaps and thinking, oh, is that me?
• 6:05
  Is that me?
• 6:05
  What does that look like?
• 6:06
  What does that answer?
• 6:07
  What can that answer be?
• 6:09
  Was really through other people sharing, right?
• 6:11
  So conversations like this, through following people online who have
• 6:16
  Who are raising awareness about it through reading articles.
• 6:20
  And then I started to create this document, probably Google doc, which
• 6:24
  I love about mid last year around ADHD and me, it was called ADHD and me
• 6:29
  just for myself in terms of like, you know, how does this show up for me?
• 6:33
  Does this bit feel like it fits, doesn't it?
• 6:35
  So I could kind of keep note and track of the things that I was thinking
• 6:38
  basically and how it, how it was.
• 6:40
  And then finally I had a, I had a conversation with my business mentor who
• 6:44
  and I to choose the term came out too as ADHD . Like she, she recognized it too.
• 6:49
  And I remember having a conversation with her and she was like, why are we
• 6:51
  both avoiding saying that we've got this?
• 6:53
  And I was like, I don't know what's I don't know why are we both doing that?
• 6:56
  And she kind of went first.
• 6:58
  And then I was like, actually, I'm going to share this too because the reason
• 7:02
  that I didn't, I think, is also around one of the parts around shame, which
• 7:05
  is one of the things we'll talk about today, like that masking and shame and
• 7:08
  how that kind of comes up and stops you asking for help and being honest,
• 7:12
  because And especially as women, that's, that's more of a thing, but yeah.
• 7:16
  And then, you know, just, just leaning into it more and being more conscious.
• 7:22
  And I, I would say that the unmasking journey is an interesting one.
• 7:26
  It's ongoing.
• 7:28
  I said to one of my clients on retreat in June, I was like, she's ADHD too.
• 7:32
  And I was like, I've got a question.
• 7:34
  Since you realized that you were ADHD too, has it been a bit of a shit show?
• 7:39
  Does life feel like it's kind of.
• 7:42
  different, but not always in a good way.
• 7:43
  And she, she was like, yeah, and it's kind of that like new discovery of
• 7:48
  yourself as that happens as well.
• 7:51
  But also not just seeing this from a point that's negative.
• 7:56
  So there's so many positives, which I know we'll go into some of again
• 8:00
  today, but it's not just seeing this from a point of how it disables you.
• 8:06
  It's also about the, the empowerment that it gives you and
• 8:10
  those strengths that it has too.
• 8:11
  Becca: So I think it's really interesting that you say that there's this idea
• 8:14
  of unmasking and shame because for me, I'm so pleased that you're openly
• 8:20
  talking about it because that's why you're here having that conversation.
• 8:24
  And it seems that it can be a real positive rather than something that
• 8:28
  we need to be shying away from.
• 8:30
  Why do you think it comes with that sense of shame?
• 8:33
  Nicole: I think it's misunderstood.
• 8:35
  And I think especially if you have, if your life experience has been
• 8:40
  that you feel like you don't fit in around what you may now know or be
• 8:43
  curious about as neurotypical people and you are different, our brains
• 8:48
  are wired to find where we fit in.
• 8:51
  Because if we go back again psychologically to when we were
• 8:54
  cavemen or whatever area you're interested in, in terms of history.
• 8:59
  We, we, we survived through being part of the tribe.
• 9:03
  So come to communicate communities and being accepted and everything else.
• 9:06
  So if we're different, if we feel like we're different and we don't
• 9:10
  necessarily have the same needs, use the same language, have the same
• 9:14
  strengths or development areas as the people that we're around, We can then
• 9:17
  mask, which causes us to feel shame.
• 9:19
  Why are we masking?
• 9:20
  Because we feel like we're not going to fit in, which makes us feel
• 9:23
  guilty, which makes us feel shame.
• 9:25
  So then we mask more and we mask more.
• 9:27
  So then when it comes to adult experience, it's really tricky unwinding all of that
• 9:33
  because it's your, it's what's been grown in your brain as a neural pathway to cope.
• 9:40
  And one of the ways that this really showed up for me, and it still
• 9:42
  does, it still does, actually it happened yesterday, so it still
• 9:45
  definitely still shows up, is around, I get migraines, right?
• 9:48
  So migraine is one of my stress responses, and I didn't realise this when I was
• 9:52
  working in banking, or when I was an employee in the city, that overstimulation
• 9:58
  The, the output of that, of me having a migraine was because I was trying to
• 10:02
  hide the fact that I was finding it hard.
• 10:04
  Too much, like too much noise.
• 10:05
  People I didn't know, loads of different smells, like all of those things
• 10:08
  that were really overstimulating me.
• 10:10
  I would hide, I would shrink, I would try to make, I'd be fine.
• 10:13
  Don't let anyone know that this is a problem, and then as soon as I
• 10:16
  relaxed or I was away from that, I would, I would have a raging migraine.
• 10:21
  I was at a gender reveal party yesterday and didn't know anybody, which was.
• 10:24
  my idea of hell.
• 10:26
  It was wonderful, but not with the people I didn't know.
• 10:28
  And loads and loads of kids and loads and loads of noise.
• 10:30
  And, and it was I got home yesterday and I was really poorly because
• 10:33
  I was trying to, again, trying to kind of mask that I was fine.
• 10:38
  And actually I wasn't, I was finding that quite hard.
• 10:40
  So I think that's why.
• 10:43
  If that helps, like the shame, the shame is there.
• 10:46
  And I think through having more conversations, it helps you to kind
• 10:48
  of unpick it and be more honest.
• 10:50
  Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:50
  And I think there's definitely a thing around having a label as well.
• 10:54
  I've been talking to a couple of my clients recently who, again, a bit
• 10:57
  like you on a bit of a journey of discovery, have maybe watched some
• 11:00
  videos or listened to the podcast and are starting to think, actually, this
• 11:03
  really resonates, this sounds like me.
• 11:06
  But then they're almost frightened about having an official diagnosis or having.
• 11:10
  a label.
• 11:12
  Is an official diagnosis something you thought about or are you, again, are
• 11:15
  you worried about having that label?
• 11:16
  Where does that sit with you?
• 11:18
  Nicole: I have considered, and I did, well, I don't think
• 11:22
  I'm considering it anymore.
• 11:23
  So I would say past tense.
• 11:24
  I, I had considered, and again, if we come through to like acceptance,
• 11:29
  it's like, am I good enough?
• 11:31
  Do I know enough about myself to say that this is me?
• 11:34
  Do I need someone else to confirm and tell me that this is what it is?
• 11:38
  And I came to the conclusion that I did not.
• 11:41
  I did not need someone else to do that.
• 11:42
  I had enough evidence.
• 11:44
  And I would say, if you are listening to this and you're either
• 11:48
  ADHD or ADHD curious, maybe ADHD, you know, thinking about it, you
• 11:55
  would have done your research.
• 11:58
  So for me, I was like, okay, what is a diagnosis going to give
• 12:02
  me that I don't already have?
• 12:04
  At the moment, I don't feel like I need medication.
• 12:09
  At the moment, I don't feel like I need other types of support like that.
• 12:15
  So, what will I gain from going through that process, which is quite stressful,
• 12:20
  difficult, and a lot of energy?
• 12:22
  And do I want to go through that?
• 12:23
  And the answer for me was, no, I don't, I don't need that right now.
• 12:27
  So yeah.
• 12:28
  Becca: That's really, really helpful.
• 12:28
  And I know that will resonate with some people listening as well.
• 12:31
  So you talked earlier on about how ADHD shows itself different in different
• 12:36
  people, but maybe drawing on some of your own examples, how do you think it?
• 12:41
  impacts the day to day running of a business or running a business for you?
• 12:46
  How does having ADHD impact that?
• 12:48
  Nicole: I think there's so many ways that it can impact it.
• 12:51
  And I'm gonna, I'm actually going to go to the positives first.
• 12:54
  So one of the things that ADHD brains are great at is finding solutions.
• 13:00
  So if you're presented with a problem, it may not be immediate that you can
• 13:04
  come up with what the answer is, but you're, you need to close the loop.
• 13:08
  Right.
• 13:08
  So you're like, right, I need, I need to find an answer to this.
• 13:11
  I need to find a way to do this differently.
• 13:13
  So the creativity.
• 13:15
  is like the things that neurotypical people could only ever dream of,
• 13:19
  the creative ideas that you have.
• 13:20
  I know the difficulty then comes in executing on them, but it is a strength
• 13:25
  to have that creativity, right?
• 13:27
  So being able to innovate, create, think, evolve, do things differently.
• 13:32
  And that's amazing.
• 13:34
  The creativity.
• 13:35
  The other thing that I would say in terms of strengths and how this
• 13:37
  can show up for business is focus.
• 13:39
  So a lot of the time this is talked about in terms of time blindness,
• 13:42
  which you were talking about before we started recording as well, and.
• 13:47
  The way to kind of reframe this and to see this, and yes, it can be a
• 13:50
  limitation, it can be a development area and, and, and something you need help
• 13:53
  with, but actually in terms of focus, like ADHD people are the hyper focus
• 14:00
  you can go into and the stuff you can get done, how much you can get done
• 14:04
  again, is something that a neurotypical person could only ever dream of, like.
• 14:10
  It's nuts.
• 14:10
  And I remember this when I was in, I didn't know this when I was in
• 14:13
  banking and people would say, how do you get through so much in a day?
• 14:17
  How do you get through all of the things that you do, all of the extra
• 14:20
  stuff that you take on and still leave on time and still take lunch?
• 14:25
  Well, because my hyper focus, my hyper fixation was supporting me in
• 14:29
  that I would go into kind of flow and that's a brilliant thing to have.
• 14:33
  So.
• 14:33
  We'll go with those two in terms of strengths and how it can show up.
• 14:37
  But let's take both of those and then kind of turn those into like looking
• 14:41
  at them from the other point of view in terms of how they can be limiting.
• 14:44
  So it's great to have all of these ideas, but actually in a business,
• 14:48
  the thing that's going to make you the money and get you the clients
• 14:52
  and help you to grow is by doing.
• 14:54
  So you can't just have the ideas, although that would be lovely, right?
• 14:57
  Like, so we need to be able to take the actions.
• 15:00
  If we look at then, okay, how does this show up in businesses
• 15:03
  from that creativity side?
• 15:04
  That's wonderful.
• 15:05
  But actually having somebody or something or a system or a way to
• 15:09
  help you to execute on those ideas, because otherwise you can become really
• 15:13
  frustrated that, you know, you've got all of these ideas, but they just.
• 15:16
  You know, it's just not working.
• 15:17
  You're just not making the progress.
• 15:18
  You're just not having the growth that you want.
• 15:19
  So finding a way to get that support from either a community or a person
• 15:24
  or a system that you put in place for you to help you to execute.
• 15:28
  And again, coming into like, that's your executive functions have been able to
• 15:32
  decide which thing to do first, which idea to go with, which way to do it, like
• 15:36
  when to do it, what date to put on that.
• 15:38
  Like what all of those things, which is a lot of, if you
• 15:41
  work with a mentor and coach.
• 15:43
  It can help you to break those things down.
• 15:45
  And then the second part of that, what we were talking about, focus and hyper,
• 15:49
  hyper focus, is those, you know, that, that thing that neurotypical people
• 15:52
  could only ever dream of, is you get, can get really lost and lose track of time.
• 15:57
  So, especially if you're in that dopamine feeding, happy
• 16:00
  place of tasks that you love.
• 16:02
  I'm a bit strange, so I really like The tech and I really like admin stuff
• 16:07
  that's processing 'cause my brain can go into that flow, but I have to
• 16:12
  find a way to bring myself out of it.
• 16:15
  So things like setting timers, things like, you know, reward dopamine,
• 16:21
  that's the feel-good hormone.
• 16:22
  How, how, what am I going to wait and make myself wait for?
• 16:26
  until I finished it.
• 16:27
  I do not mean going for a wee or having lunch or having a drink, like,
• 16:31
  because a lot of people with ADHD can forget to do those things too, because
• 16:34
  we go into that hyper focused state.
• 16:36
  But thinking about, okay, Like, downstairs right now, I have got
• 16:40
  a chocolate muffin waiting on the side that I'm going to devour after
• 16:44
  we've finished recording this.
• 16:46
  I might even make myself wait until I've recorded some of my own podcast episodes
• 16:49
  because I'm already set up with my mic.
• 16:51
  So, but that's, that's, you know, it's not thinking, okay, I'm
• 16:54
  going to go into hyper focus.
• 16:55
  I can get into this.
• 16:56
  But then what are you going to give yourself afterwards as a reward, which
• 16:59
  can work really well as well for.
• 17:01
  Neuro, neurodiverse brains.
• 17:03
  Becca: Really, really interesting.
• 17:04
  So leading on from that then, have you found that since you've come to this self
• 17:09
  diagnosis, since you've looked into it and understood yourself and your working
• 17:13
  patterns more, are there other practical things that you have implemented in your
• 17:18
  own business with that new awareness?
• 17:20
  Nicole: Yeah.
• 17:21
  So I work with my VA totally differently now.
• 17:24
  Interesting.
• 17:25
  So a lot of what I will ask her to do for me, and it sounds, it's, I, the irony
• 17:31
  is I do this for other people, right?
• 17:32
  So I will say to her, I need you to send me a message on this
• 17:38
  day and ask me this question.
• 17:42
  Because if I set myself a reminder, I will ignore it.
• 17:45
  As an example.
• 17:47
  In Covid, during lockdown, so for like two years I did this, I had a reminder at 1.
• 17:51
  55 every day to go for a walk that I ignored.
• 17:54
  I now have a reminder on my phone that goes off at 2.
• 17:56
  55 every day to remind me to meditate.
• 17:58
  I also ignore that.
• 17:59
  Like me having those reminders that I've set myself are not enough.
• 18:03
  It's that accountability to another person to have to say to them, no, actually,
• 18:08
  can we put this back another month?
• 18:10
  No, actually, like I have done.
• 18:12
  So that, I've completely changed that in terms of saying, you know, really
• 18:15
  simple things that feel like I shouldn't really have to ask anybody to do.
• 18:18
  But actually sometimes putting myself a reminder in or writing a to do list
• 18:22
  on a certain day in a diary or whatever doesn't, just doesn't always work.
• 18:25
  So it's having that external input, and asking the questions.
• 18:30
  I would also say that it's allowed me to be a bit more forgiving of myself.
• 18:33
  So, like, if I do have a migraine, or if I do feel a bit overwhelmed,
• 18:38
  or if I do feel like I don't have the answer, then I know what to do.
• 18:42
  So, I know that it's okay to ask for help, and ask for help on some really...
• 18:47
  basic things, right?
• 18:50
  So I'll give you an example.
• 18:51
  Before I was going to, this is more personal, but on the, on, before I
• 18:55
  was going to this gender reveal party yesterday, I was talking about, I was
• 18:58
  traveling to where it is on Saturday and then some stuff that happened at home,
• 19:02
  which derailed things in the morning.
• 19:03
  And I was like, I can't have, I haven't got time to eat lunch.
• 19:06
  I haven't got time to pack my bags.
• 19:08
  I haven't got time to do this.
• 19:09
  So I rung my other half and I was like, I haven't got time to
• 19:12
  eat and I don't know what to do.
• 19:13
  I need you to help me make a decision.
• 19:15
  It's not that I'm complaining, and actually I had loads of stuff to eat.
• 19:18
  Obviously I had loads of stuff to eat.
• 19:20
  But, I couldn't make that decision because I felt overwhelmed.
• 19:23
  So there's that part around being like, okay, I don't know what to sell.
• 19:25
  I don't know how to market.
• 19:26
  I don't know...
• 19:28
  how I'm going to fit all of this in.
• 19:29
  I don't know if I've got time for this launch, for this thing, for this event,
• 19:32
  for this client, for this process.
• 19:35
  Like, and actually just saying, actually I'm labeling this as I'm finding this
• 19:38
  hard and I need somebody to help me.
• 19:40
  Can somebody help me?
• 19:41
  And it's okay.
• 19:42
  Again, I'm asking, let's get rid of the shame.
• 19:45
  that it's okay to ask for help.
• 19:47
  Becca: It's 100% and I think that's really important for all of us to understand
• 19:51
  that it's, it's okay to ask for help.
• 19:53
  We need to be honest when we're struggling with something and whether that's
• 19:58
  because you've got ADHD, whether that's another reason, actually we need to...
• 20:02
  all take off that mask sometimes and stop pretending.
• 20:05
  I always talk about going to networking meetings and wedding business owners
• 20:09
  going to networking meetings and no one wants to be in the room talking
• 20:12
  to someone else who's just saying yeah this is amazing, this is amazing,
• 20:15
  everything's perfect because we all know that's not true and actually when
• 20:19
  we can be vulnerable enough to take off that mask and to just say actually this
• 20:24
  is a struggle or that's a struggle.
• 20:26
  Often we can all build deeper relationships because we're being honest
• 20:31
  and more vulnerable and then also, you know, going out, going out there and
• 20:36
  being braver and getting more done.
• 20:38
  How would you say impacts you in an event like that?
• 20:41
  So you talked about your gender reveal party.
• 20:43
  If you were to go to a business conference, to a business networking
• 20:46
  event with lots of other people, do you thrive in that environment?
• 20:51
  Do you struggle in that environment?
• 20:52
  How does that impact?
• 20:53
  Nicole: That's my idea of hell.
• 20:55
  I, I wouldn't go.
• 20:57
  I say this, I say this often, I say it tongue in cheek and a joke, right?
• 21:00
  So I'm also an introvert, so it's also important to know it's like how
• 21:04
  anything blends together with your preferences and your personality.
• 21:07
  But I do not like big spaces.
• 21:09
  I've never liked being around loads of people, especially ones that I don't know.
• 21:13
  I have an audience now which blows my tiny mind of 26, 000 people across platforms.
• 21:19
  If 26, 000 people were sitting in a room waiting for me to show
• 21:23
  up on a stage, I wouldn't go.
• 21:25
  Like, I don't want to be in that room.
• 21:27
  Like, I don't.
• 21:28
  And actually, it's okay.
• 21:30
  You know, when I share about like where I live or where I'm traveling
• 21:33
  to or whatever else online and people are like, Oh, I'm there.
• 21:36
  It'd be great to meet up.
• 21:37
  And I'm like, Nope.
• 21:42
  The things that I do in person are more controlled for me.
• 21:44
  So I run retreats where I'm the people that I know we've met before we make,
• 21:49
  I make sure that I'm doing that kind of like interview curated as well.
• 21:53
  And also that I'm comfortable share a house with those people
• 21:57
  for however many days that is.
• 21:58
  And, and I, I.
• 22:01
  That's the way, the only way really that I'm okay to essentially network in small
• 22:08
  spaces that are specially curated, that also allow me to have lots of space.
• 22:14
  Because I'll give you an example.
• 22:16
  One of my, one of my mentor, one of the things that, a mastermind
• 22:19
  I'm in with One of the things that we have is in person days, right?
• 22:23
  And there's some groups are small as well.
• 22:25
  And I remember going to the first one where I hadn't met any
• 22:28
  of these people in person yet.
• 22:30
  I'd met my mentor, but not the other attendees.
• 22:32
  And it got to my hot seat part of the day.
• 22:35
  And they were asking me questions and I was like, my, I can't,
• 22:39
  I've not got anything left.
• 22:40
  My brain can't do this anymore.
• 22:42
  And there's an important part as well about whoever you are
• 22:45
  around being able to be honest.
• 22:47
  And I think for me, if that's in a bigger group, when you don't
• 22:51
  know people, that is, that does tend to be a little bit harder.
• 22:54
  So I could turn around and say to my mentor, for example, there's
• 22:58
  nothing, I'm really struggling with executive function here.
• 23:00
  I can't, I've got nothing for you.
• 23:02
  Like, I can't answer these questions.
• 23:03
  She was like, it's fine.
• 23:04
  We'll come to it next week.
• 23:05
  We'll come to it another time.
• 23:06
  We'll come to it on another session, like, and, and having that.
• 23:09
  And I think for me, there's a worry and a, and a reality that in bigger spaces
• 23:16
  with more people that you don't know, again, you have to like throw the mask
• 23:19
  on and I don't want to wear the mask.
• 23:22
  You know, so like even for me on my retreats, it's become known that like
• 23:26
  normally on the main day we have, I like go for a nap in the mid afternoon,
• 23:30
  like after lunch, I just take a, take 10 minutes like, and, and that's okay.
• 23:34
  And I do, I work with lots of introverts, so it gives them
• 23:36
  permission to go for a nap too.
• 23:38
  Yeah, I, I, I wouldn't go, is the answer really.
• 23:43
  Becca: What I love about that, and your honesty, is I think that's
• 23:46
  going to free up some people who are listening, because there are great
• 23:50
  opportunities to speak on big stages or go to these massive industry events,
• 23:54
  and I'm someone who thrives on that.
• 23:56
  So I'm going to Vegas in November to go to Wedding MBA because it's the world's
• 24:01
  biggest wedding industry conference with thousands of people, and I know I will
• 24:05
  love it and I will get a lot out of it.
• 24:07
  Now there may be someone like you saying, that would be my absolute
• 24:10
  worst nightmare, but then also having that secondary narrative which says,
• 24:13
  therefore I'm not good enough, therefore I won't be as successful, therefore
• 24:17
  I'm going to miss out on opportunities.
• 24:19
  Actually what you're saying is, no you're not those things, you
• 24:23
  just need to find other ways to achieve the same outcome, right?
• 24:27
  Nicole: Definitely.
• 24:28
  And do you know what, like even, even online networking in big
• 24:32
  groups makes me feel like that.
• 24:33
  I think it's the big group thing as well.
• 24:34
  And the, the sensitivity to rejection, which is another thing that comes up
• 24:39
  for ADHD is that rejection sensitivity.
• 24:42
  So if there's a big group, like how, how am I going to navigate that
• 24:46
  if I don't feel like I fit in and.
• 24:49
  You know, to share, I've had my business now for five and a half years.
• 24:52
  I've never been to an in person network, like dedicated in person networking event.
• 24:56
  I'd never been to like one of the big atomic on like speak,
• 25:00
  you know, those sorts of gigs.
• 25:02
  I I'm, and I don't want to, I don't want to go and it's okay.
• 25:06
  Like my happy place instead of traveling, I mean.
• 25:10
  hats off to you for Vegas.
• 25:11
  That feels like, like totally different world for me.
• 25:14
  I'm like, I couldn't, I don't think I couldn't do it.
• 25:17
  And then travel across like, you know, a nine, 10 hour flight as well.
• 25:21
  But you know, you don't have to, I've been in business five and a half years.
• 25:24
  I've never done that.
• 25:24
  And I'm still incredibly successful in the way that I want to be successful.
• 25:27
  So you don't have to do it.
• 25:29
  Any other way, I was talking to my membership about this this morning
• 25:32
  in terms of goals and I was saying like, you know, come back to what you
• 25:36
  need and what is important for you.
• 25:40
  Yes, you may be inspired by somebody else, but really sit and think to yourself,
• 25:44
  okay, you're listening to Becca and you're like, yeah, I would love to go to Vegas.
• 25:47
  And I want to do.
• 25:49
  Great.
• 25:49
  Like if that's what you'd want to do.
• 25:51
  If you're listening and you're hearing this, like my side of the
• 25:53
  conversation here and being like, Oh no, actually that's not really for me.
• 25:56
  And I'd prefer maybe a few.
• 25:58
  online things, or actually just to create a community in a different
• 26:01
  way, like fine, like it's okay.
• 26:04
  And actually coming back to this part about rejection, sensitivity
• 26:07
  and acceptance and shame, the right people are going to get it.
• 26:10
  So it doesn't, the people who don't get it aren't the right people.
• 26:14
  So even if they are, they're similar to you or they're
• 26:16
  different to you, the right people.
• 26:19
  Even if you're different, they're going to get it.
• 26:21
  Becca: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 26:22
  And I think that's why it's so important for us to have conversations like this,
• 26:25
  because here having this conversation, we're both two successful business women
• 26:30
  who are approaching life so differently, but there's not a right or a wrong, and
• 26:34
  it's okay that we're not all the same.
• 26:36
  And in fact, we should be celebrating that.
• 26:37
  And that's why I'm so pleased that we're having this conversation today.
• 26:40
  Now, one of the other things you talked about a little bit earlier
• 26:42
  was accountability and your accountability with your VA, and
• 26:47
  we've just talked about safe spaces.
• 26:48
  As well and finding your tribe, all those kind of things.
• 26:52
  Why do you think that has been important for you?
• 26:56
  Nicole: I think it's been important for me in relation to
• 26:58
  A D H D in terms of acceptance.
• 27:03
  So, If you can find a space, which I know obviously Becca has for wedding business
• 27:09
  owners as well, like, you know, to feel accepted, to feel like it's okay to
• 27:13
  ask for help, to say, this is the, not only to say I'm finding this hard, be
• 27:17
  open to what comes back as, as options.
• 27:21
  And then, you know, execute on those with support and still being
• 27:25
  able to come back and say, I tried that and it didn't work for me.
• 27:27
  I need some more help.
• 27:28
  Like that's game changing.
• 27:30
  And let's also lean into the fact that women.
• 27:34
  societally, and I'm not going to go into like any sort of feminist rant,
• 27:37
  but, but we are expected to have our shit together and just get on with it.
• 27:44
  So couple that in with again, why ADHD, for example, shows
• 27:48
  up differently for women.
• 27:50
  It's because we're expected to just get on with it.
• 27:52
  You know, it comes from being child bearers and, and caring,
• 27:55
  you know, caring and all of that.
• 27:58
  And having a space where you feel like you can remove that mask.
• 28:05
  Actually, whether you're neurodiverse or neurotypical, because as
• 28:08
  women, that's just what happens.
• 28:11
  Sadly, it's true.
• 28:12
  It's getting better, but we still have a way to go.
• 28:15
  Like having that community, that support network.
• 28:18
  Is game changing and, and being able to be yourself without judgment.
• 28:28
  And, you know, I've, you hear this quite a lot, actually, like there's no
• 28:31
  one that will support you better than a person on the internet you've never met.
• 28:36
  So if you're going for help to who you now may think of or did in the past as
• 28:41
  your community, like your friends and your family who don't run businesses,
• 28:44
  who don't know what it's like to be you, who don't know what it's like to
• 28:47
  do all of those things that you do.
• 28:48
  We can't really expect them to understand because it's not their
• 28:51
  world, it's not their reality.
• 28:52
  They may accept you, right, but they may not know how to help.
• 28:57
  I used to have this all the time with my ex actually, so I'd ask him
• 28:59
  for help with something, and then he'd give a suggestion, pre ADHD,
• 29:03
  me realising it was probably ADHD.
• 29:04
  They'd be like, no, that's never going to work.
• 29:07
  What are you talking about?
• 29:07
  Of course that's not going to work.
• 29:09
  Like now, with my partner now, if he gives me, he knows me because I'm able
• 29:13
  to share more about myself as well.
• 29:14
  So if I give him a problem that I'm having and I'm like, I need some help
• 29:18
  with this, like I said, eat the food out of the freezer that you batch
• 29:21
  cooked, like it's in there already.
• 29:23
  It's the same in business, like coming to, okay, someone who knows you that can
• 29:27
  say, Oh, but remember like last month or six months ago, we talked about this idea.
• 29:31
  And what about that way or this way that you like, because I know that
• 29:34
  maybe you're more of an introvert or you're more of an extrovert or you're
• 29:36
  more of this, you're more of that.
• 29:37
  And like your preferences and having people who know you, who care about
• 29:41
  you, who want to see you win, who want to see you other women, especially who
• 29:47
  want to see you win is a game changer.
• 29:50
  Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:51
  I'm a huge believer in having a supportive community and I think sometimes that's
• 29:55
  why some of the paid memberships are a little bit safer spaces because some of
• 29:59
  those free groups are humongous and you don't know who's in there and you don't
• 30:03
  know who's watching or all the rest of it.
• 30:06
  And if you can find a space and I do recommend.
• 30:08
  Try a space out or try a few different spaces out until you find
• 30:12
  the place that's a fit for you.
• 30:13
  Because even if it's a really great business group, you
• 30:15
  might come into my group.
• 30:17
  You think, yeah, it's a really good fit.
• 30:18
  And then you realize, actually, this isn't my place.
• 30:21
  That's totally fine.
• 30:22
  Find a place that is totally right for you.
• 30:24
  And that really will help your business.
• 30:27
  Now, I would love to just.
• 30:29
  To change tack slightly, Nicole, as we start to bring this to an end, because
• 30:34
  I also think it's a really interesting discussion to think about people that
• 30:38
  we might as business owners come across who are neurodiverse or have ADHD.
• 30:42
  So for example, in the wedding industry, there might be someone
• 30:45
  listening, they're a florist, they're a cake maker, and they're thinking,
• 30:47
  no, I don't think this is me.
• 30:49
  Actually, day to day coming across couples who are planning their
• 30:53
  wedding, they are likely to interact.
• 30:56
  With different kinds of people.
• 30:57
  And so how can we recognize that as a wedding supplier, as a
• 31:01
  business coach in somebody else?
• 31:04
  And what can we do to be more inclusive and to try and help people through that
• 31:08
  very stressful wedding planning process?
• 31:10
  Nicole: If we go to wedding planning specifically.
• 31:13
  I would say it's really important to be direct and clear.
• 31:20
  So some of my clients are in the wedding industry and they have,
• 31:25
  you know, one of the things that comes up is like this deadline.
• 31:28
  So you need people to come back to you by here to do this, to make a decision
• 31:31
  on this, to move forward with this part of the next step in the process.
• 31:36
  If people are struggling with executive function.
• 31:39
  And they are overwhelmed clients, right?
• 31:42
  You doing something as simple as saying, right, I need this from you by this date,
• 31:49
  because of, so what you need by when and why, which makes it really clear,
• 31:58
  really direct, helps you to get what you need, but also helps that client.
• 32:04
  To feel less overwhelmed by all of the things they have to do.
• 32:08
  They've got a date in their mind, right?
• 32:10
  They know what they have to do and they know the implication.
• 32:13
  Let's go to dopamine.
• 32:14
  We act when we're motivated.
• 32:15
  We don't want that negative consequence.
• 32:17
  So why, if we do this by then, this is why we need it.
• 32:21
  Becca: So we can help by being clearer in the instructions that we're giving and.
• 32:26
  being less overwhelming by just giving really simple explanations.
• 32:31
  Nicole: Yeah and the irony of this is if you are neurodiverse, especially
• 32:36
  ADHD yourself, you're the way, and you may notice the way that I speak is in
• 32:43
  stories that aren't always very clear.
• 32:47
  So the irony is If what you need and what your clients need, like
• 32:52
  may look very different and it's okay, even if you process that
• 32:58
  information in different ways.
• 32:59
  So if you need to have that conversation and go around to be able
• 33:03
  to get what you need, that's fine.
• 33:06
  But notice if somebody is different, it's just, it's If
• 33:13
  You don't know the answer.
• 33:15
  If you don't know the answer, and you're noticing maybe that
• 33:17
  somebody is struggling with that, ask what you can do to help them.
• 33:23
  What would help you to meet these deadlines?
• 33:25
  What would help you?
• 33:26
  What do you need from me?
• 33:28
  How can I support you to.
• 33:31
  X, Y, Z.
• 33:33
  One of the things that I say to all my clients when they start working with
• 33:35
  me is, how can I hold you accountable?
• 33:37
  What kind of accountability works for you?
• 33:39
  What kind of coaching and mentoring style works for you?
• 33:42
  Do you need me to give you some tough love?
• 33:45
  Do you need me to be a little bit more tactful?
• 33:48
  Do you need, do you like me?
• 33:49
  Do you want me to swear at you?
• 33:50
  Do you want me to, do you want me to?
• 33:54
  Wrap my arms around you.
• 33:55
  Do you need me to just check in on deadlines?
• 33:56
  Like what do you need?
• 33:58
  And this is the other thing I think, especially with let's
• 34:01
  go to the schooling system.
• 34:03
  Let's go to workplaces.
• 34:04
  We're all expected to fit into this mold, which doesn't work most of the
• 34:08
  time for people who are neurodiverse.
• 34:11
  So.
• 34:12
  asking what they need, they also may not know what they need, because maybe they
• 34:19
  might not have been asked that question before, because they've been just wearing
• 34:23
  a mask and trying to get on with it.
• 34:25
  Ask them what they need from you to help make this easier.
• 34:29
  Becca: I think it's something we all need to be more aware of, because we
• 34:31
  just assume everyone else is thinking like us, if we're honest, and we get into
• 34:34
  patterns of how we act and how we behave.
• 34:37
  But actually, all of us by just being a little bit more thoughtful
• 34:40
  and asking a few more questions could massively help someone.
• 34:44
  Now, I don't want to end this conversation because we have.
• 34:46
  gone deep into a really important topic without just giving people another
• 34:50
  kind of jumping off place to go.
• 34:51
  So if there is someone listening to this who's really thinking, this sounds
• 34:56
  a lot like me and now I'm panicking.
• 34:58
  I don't know what to do next.
• 35:00
  Is there any way you'd recommend people to go to just do a bit more
• 35:03
  research or to just try and build on this conversation for themselves?
• 35:08
  Nicole: I'd say I don't like the influencer world, right, but I would
• 35:11
  say follow some people who are leading.
• 35:15
  The conversation in this space.
• 35:18
  So whether you're on Facebook, whether you're on LinkedIn or TikTok, whether
• 35:21
  you're on Instagram, like go and follow some accounts that allow you to
• 35:25
  procrastinate in a beautiful way and learn some stuff and then be curious.
• 35:31
  Just be curious.
• 35:32
  And also.
• 35:33
  Be kind to yourself.
• 35:35
  You know, you can read up on, and I have to say this, you can read up on, you know,
• 35:40
  medical journals and, and N H S websites and Mayo Clinic and like whatever.
• 35:46
  They are very prescriptive, in my opinion.
• 35:49
  It's very narrow if you're following people who have lived experience.
• 35:55
  And who help other people as well with those things, you're likely to learn a lot
• 36:00
  more because the places and the ways that it shows up will vary so much from person
• 36:05
  to person, gender to gender, ethnicities, backgrounds, religions, like all of the
• 36:10
  diversities, like all of those things.
• 36:13
  So just be curious, follow people who are, who are helping you to understand
• 36:18
  more about it and then, you know, maybe do what I did and start to make some notes.
• 36:24
  And be like, okay, this is me.
• 36:25
  I'll put it in the back of a notebook.
• 36:27
  I'll put it in a note on my phone, I'll put it in a Google doc or something.
• 36:30
  And then I'll come back to it and just see how it makes me feel,
• 36:33
  but just be patient with yourself.
• 36:35
  Becca: Really, really helpful advice.
• 36:37
  And I'm sure if you are listening to this and it has struck a chord with you
• 36:40
  and you want to reach out to myself, if you want to reach out to Nicole
• 36:43
  directly, I'm sure she'd be more than happy to just chat with you and, and
• 36:46
  encourage you along this journey as well.
• 36:49
  Nicole, it's been such a pleasure having this conversation with you.
• 36:52
  I always end my podcast with the same question, which I'm going to put to you
• 36:55
  now, which is what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
• 37:00
  Nicole: It's got to be that I had ADHD.
• 37:05
  Becca: What do you think you would have changed sooner if you'd have realized?
• 37:07
  Nicole: I would have had more accountability.
• 37:09
  I would have asked for help.
• 37:10
  I would have accelerated so much else of what I'm doing because I wouldn't
• 37:15
  have felt shame for not knowing the answers or it not working for
• 37:19
  me in the ways that it seemed like it was working for everyone else.
• 37:22
  Becca: Yeah, that makes total sense.
• 37:24
  Nicole, I just want to encourage you at the end of this conversation
• 37:26
  to say thank you for being here.
• 37:28
  Thank you for being brave enough to unmask yourself and to talk about
• 37:32
  this topic because I do believe what you're doing is an incredible gift.
• 37:36
  to other people that they can see someone in their world, in their
• 37:40
  business community that is openly talking about this subject matter.
• 37:44
  And also, you've been brilliant as a guest.
• 37:46
  You haven't taken us off on a tangent.
• 37:48
  I know you're concerned about that.
• 37:49
  Your stories actually have been really helpful to bring
• 37:52
  everything into perspective.
• 37:54
  So thank you for being here.
• 37:56
  If people have enjoyed hearing from you, I believe you've got a
• 37:59
  podcast people can go and listen to.
• 38:02
  Tell us more about that and where people can find you online.
• 38:04
  Nicole: Thank you.
• 38:05
  So yeah, it's super charge your business, wherever you listen to your podcasts,
• 38:09
  stalk me online, come and find me.
• 38:11
  Love to, I'd love to have you.
• 38:13
  Becca: Amazing.
• 38:13
  Thank you so much for your honesty, for your integrity, and I will be sure to
• 38:17
  make a link to your podcast and all of your other websites in the show notes.
• 38:21
  So if you do want to find out more about Nicole, do go
• 38:23
  and check out the show notes.
• 38:24
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 38:29
  I absolutely love that conversation.
• 38:31
  It's given me so much to think about.
• 38:33
  It's not something, as I said at the beginning, that I knew a huge amount
• 38:36
  about, but it's definitely something I understand at greater depth now.
• 38:41
  And I'm going to continue to think about as I think about the way I
• 38:43
  work with you going forward as well.
• 38:46
  And I know for some of you, this will have resonated.
• 38:48
  So if that's you.
• 38:50
  Go and do your research, reach out to someone, don't keep on covering it
• 38:54
  up, but start to think about how you can use this as a superpower and not
• 38:58
  feel like it's going to hold you back.
• 38:59
  I'll see you next time.