Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Jeffrey Epstein And The Unsealed Grand Jury Documents From Florida (Part 1-3) (8/29/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Jeffrey Epstein And The Unsealed Grand Jury Documents From Florida (Part 1-3) (8/29/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: So we finally have our hands on the grand jury
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: documents from Jeffrey Epstein's first arrest down in Florida. Now
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this has been an ongoing battle for literally decades. And
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: finally we're getting a look in full HD at the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: piss poor job that was done by the prosecutors down
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: in Florida and their handlers in the federal government. And
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: somebody like Barry Krischer really should be embarrassed. This is
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: a man that shouldn't have a pension. He shouldn't be
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: getting any sort of reward for his career after what
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: occurred here. Sorry. So like usual, we're going to dive
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: into the court documents. That way, everybody gets a look
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: at what these documents say before I start running my
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: big fat yap about what I think. With that bit
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of opining out of the way, why don't we just
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: dive right into these documents? In the Circuit Court of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the 15th Judicial Circuit, in and for Palm Beach County, Florida,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Case No. 50-2019-CA-01-4681-AG CA Florida Holdings, LLC, Publisher of the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach Post, Plaintiff v. Joseph Abruzzo as Clerk and
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Comptroller of Palm Beach County, Florida the order granting plaintiff's
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: motion for reconsideration of the trial court's February 29, 2024
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: order and canceling July 8, 2024 hearing. This cause, having
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: come before the court on the Palm Beach Post's motion
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: for reconsideration of the trial court's February 29, 2024 order
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: filed on June 12, 2024, and the court having considered
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: the motion being advised of the arguments of the parties
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and being otherwise advised of the premises, The court grants
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the motion for reconsideration and adjudicates the following. Procedural History
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: In 2019, the Palm Beach Post commenced this action seeking
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a declaration authorizing the release of testimony and related evidence
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: presented to the Palm Beach County Grand Jury in 2006
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: during the first Jeffrey Epstein sex abuse investigation. On December 21, 2021,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the trial court entered a final judgment dismissing the Palm
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Beach Post's first amended complaint on the grounds that the
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: court lacked the statutory authority under Florida Statute 905.27 to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: order the release of the Epstein grand jury materials. On
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: May 10, 2023, the 4th District Court of Appeals remanded
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the case to the Circuit Court to conduct an in-camera
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: inspection of the Epstein grand jury materials to determine whether
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: public disclosure would be furthering justice as defined by Florida
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Statute 905.27. The court ultimately determined the request did not
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: further justice under the law as it existed at the time.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: The court stated that it must follow the law and
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: cannot create new law. Lawmaking is a process that belongs
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: exclusively to the people of Florida when they speak through
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: their legislature and the executive branches. This concept is rudimentary
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in basic civics. The courts interpret law. The courts do
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: not make law. It is also important to note that
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: without an amendment to the statute, grand jury proceedings are
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: generally always kept secret and are closed to the public.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: This is generally to protect jurors, witnesses, those accused, and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the integrity of the case. Secrecy allows people to serve
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: as jurors and witnesses to testify without fear of outside
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: influence or retaliation. In some cases, It also ensures the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: protection of an innocent suspect's reputation. Secrecy also makes it
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: less likely that a defendant will abscond after learning that
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: they're being investigated. While those do not apply to Epstein,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: the law at the time did not carve out an exception.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: During this time, among others, the clerk of the court, Mr.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Joseph Abruzzo, a former state legislator with vast experience in
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the legislative process, advocated to state legislators to amend the law.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Their efforts were successful. Florida's legislature unanimously passed Bill HB 117.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Once the bill passed, both of the legislative houses, the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, very quickly signed CS HB 117,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: amending Florida Statute 905.27, effective July 1, 2024. This amendment
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: significantly modified the definition of furthering justice to expressly include
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: furthering a public interest when the disclosure is requested pursuant
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to paragraph 905.272c. It cannot be understated that the amendment
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to the law very clearly allows what previously was not
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: legally permissible. The court's order denying the release of the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: records also gave leave of court for the Palm Beach
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Post to file a motion for reconsideration after July 1, 2024,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: under the new statute. On June 12, 2024, The Palm
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Beach Post moved for reconsideration of the trial court's order
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: based on the Florida Statute 905.27 as amended on July 1, 2024.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: It cannot be disputed that the 2024 amendments to Florida
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Statute 905.27 were intended to remove the prior statutory hurdles
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: to disclosure of the Epstein grand jury materials. In fact,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the court notes the bill was often called the Epstein
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: grand jury bill recognizing the prior statutory construction did not
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: allow release of these records. In the official press releases,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Governor DeSantis explained his reasons for signing CS HB 117
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: into law. Governor DeSantis stated the public deserves to know
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: who participated in the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking. Nobody should
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: be protected from facing justice due to their wealth or status,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and those who harm children should be exposed and punished
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to the fullest extent of the law. Conclusions of Fact
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  Speaker 1: and Law Florida Statute 905.272c now reads as follows. When
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: a court orders the disclosure of such testimony pursuant to
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: subsection 1 in response to a request by the media
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: or an interested person, regardless of whether that purpose is
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: for use in a criminal or civil case, It may
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: be disclosed so long as the subject of the grand
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: jury inquiry is deceased, the grand jury inquiry related to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: criminal or sexual activity between the subject of the grand
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  Speaker 1: jury investigation and the person who was a minor at
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: the time of the alleged criminal or sexual activity, the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: testimony was previously disclosed by a court order, and the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: state attorney is provided notice of the request. This paragraph
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  Speaker 1: does not limit the court's ability to limit the disclosure
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of testimony including, but not limited to, redaction. With that
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: new legal mechanism in place, the court makes the following findings.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: The court finds that the request involves a matter of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: public interest. The criminal prosecution of the most infamous pedophile
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: in American history began in Palm Beach County with much controversy.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: For almost 20 years, the story of how Jeffrey Epstein
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: victimized some of his Palm Beach County's most vulnerable has
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: been the subject of much anger, and has at times
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: diminished the public's perception of the criminal justice system. Adding
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: to the public interest, Epstein is indeed notorious and infamous,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and is widely reported to have flaunted his wealth while
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: cavorting with politicians, billionaires, and even British royalty. It's understandable
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: that given those reports, the public has a great curiosity
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: about what was widely reported by news agencies as special
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: treatment regarding his prosecution. This matter is clearly the subject
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of public interest. The court finds that this request is
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: made by the news media, specifically the Palm Beach Post.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: The Palm Beach Post is a daily newspaper that was
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: founded in 1916 as a local publication in West Palm Beach.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: For decades, the Palm Beach Post was printed and published
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: daily in Palm Beach County. The court finds that despite
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: its many changes, the Palm Beach Post has a long
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and rich history documenting our local community. Many local residents
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: still rely on the Palm Beach Post to obtain information
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: on national, state, and local events. The Palm Beach Post
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: remains a newspaper of record in our country. The court
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: finds Epstein is also widely reported to have been deceased
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: since August 10, 2019, under controversial and newsworthy circumstances, while
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: under supervision at Metropolitan Correctional Center in the state of
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: New York. This adds to public interest. Having reviewed the testimony,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the court also finds the testimony relates to sexual activity
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: between Epstein and child victims of sex trafficking. Again, it's
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: widely accepted that Epstein is a notorious and serial pedophile.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: The testimony taken by the grand jury concerns activity ranging
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: from grossly unacceptable to rape. All of the conduct at issue,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: sexually deviant, disgusting, and criminal. The details in the record
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: will be outrageous to decent people. It is also important
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to note that some of the testimony in the records
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of Epstein's pedophilia involved other people, but there is nothing
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: in this record that was outside the knowledge of law
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: enforcement or prosecutors. There is no new information. And just
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: to interject here, that's what I always tell you folks, okay?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: These are receipts. This is where the rubber meets the road.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Who's been lying to you, and who's been telling you
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the truth? And who really cares about getting to the
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: bottom of this? If people are out here talking about, oh,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I follow the Epstein case, I'm reporting on it, yada, yada, yada,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: and they're not even diving into the court documents, how
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: could they be giving their audience or their listeners the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: really real? Because they don't even know the truth themselves
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: or the closest to the truth we're going to get.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: But what these court documents do, it just backs up
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: everything that we've been talking about for all these years.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Back to the document. Tragically, the record reveals that Epstein
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: used children to find more victims. The record also shows
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that some of the children knew the type of people
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: they could be exposed to and the infamous nature of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: such notable people. The court also notes that testimony was
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: previously disclosed to law enforcement agencies. Furthermore, the state attorney
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was properly noticed and long ago withdrew any objections to
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: release the records and early on even did his best
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: to disclose the information in his office possession without delay,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: via an internet portal. As a result, he was eventually
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: dropped as the name party in this action after much
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: inconvenience and expense. It is ordered and adjudged. The motion
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: for reconsideration is granted. It is further ordered and adjudged.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: The hearing scheduled for July 8, 2024 is moot and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: is canceled. It is further ordered and adjudged. The Palm
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Beach Post petitioned to release the grand jury proceedings regarding
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein under Florida Statute 905.27 as amended July 1, 2024,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: is granted, with only a few redactions made by the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: court to protect the identity of the minors. The court
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: hereby authorizes the clerk of the court to release the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: redacted clerk notes and transcripts of the testimony in their entirety,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: attached as Exhibit A. The court is not aware of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: anything more to review and disclose. Done and ordered at
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  Speaker 1: West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida. And this document
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: was signed by Luis Delgado. All right, so we're going
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to wrap up this episode here. And in the next episode,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive into the meat and potatoes and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: get rocking and rolling. All of the information that goes
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to get right back to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: those grand jury documents. And this is going to be
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the actual transcript of the proceeding. And like usual, you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: might want to have your barf bag ready. In the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: 5th Circuit of the 15th Judicial Circuit in and for
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach County, Florida, Grand Jury Proceeding, Jeffrey Epstein. On
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: behalf of the state, Barry Krischer, State Attorney, Palm Beach, Florida,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and Lana Belahovlich, and Mary Ann Duggan. Wednesday, July 19th, 2006.
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  Speaker 1: Grand Jury Room, Palm Beach County Courthouse, 914 a.m. to
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: 1252 p.m. Witnesses, Joseph Ricari, Gregory Parkinson, and Jensen Ross.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And we also have some redacted names, which are the minors, obviously.
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  Speaker 1: Be it remembered that the following proceedings were had at
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  Speaker 1: the Palm Beach County Courthouse located in the city of
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  Speaker 1: West Palm Beach, state of Florida, on Wednesday, July 19th, 2006,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: beginning at 9.14 a.m., with appearance as herein before noted,
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  Speaker 1: to wit, thereupon. Miss Dugan, everybody ready? Witness Joseph Ricari.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Miss Dugan, would you raise your right hand? Do you
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: but the truth? So help you God, the witness who
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: is Joseph Ricari, I do. Miss Dugan, please have a seat. Ricari,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: thank you. The Examination by Mrs. Belahovlik. Question. Good morning. Answer.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Good morning. Belahovlik. Detective Rakari, could you introduce yourself, please? Rakari.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: My name is Detective Joseph Rakari with the Palm Beach
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Police Department. Prosecutor. Okay, what is your position there? Rakari.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I'm a detective in the Special Investigations Unit. Prosecutor. What
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: do you investigate in Special Investigations? Rakari. Long-term investigations, financial crimes,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: white-collar crimes, just about any, any kind of crimes. Prosecutor. Okay.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Ones that are going on for a long period of time, though, usually. Ricari. Correct.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: A long period. Prosecutor. Not a murder that happened last night. Ricari. Right. Prosecutor. Okay.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Did you become involved in an investigation under case number 0500368? Ricari.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: That's correct. Prosecutor. When did you become involved in this? Ricari,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: in September of 2005. Prosecutor, okay, was there another detective
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: investigating this case before then? Ricari, that's correct, her name
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: was Michelle Pagan. Prosecutor, okay, and she at some point
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: turned it over to you. Ricari, correct. Prosecutor, have you
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: familiarized yourself either speaking with Detective Pagan or going through
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: her reports as to what was done when she was
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: detective on the case? Rakari, yes I have. Prosecutor, okay.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: How did this case come to the attention of the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach Police Department? Rakari, on March 14th, 2005, a
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: phone call was received from Redacted, who felt that there
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: was a, well, some sexual activity had occurred with her daughter. Prosecutor, okay.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: And Redacted's name is Redacted. Rakari, Redacted. Prosecutor, okay. And
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: who was her daughter? Rakari, her stepdaughter is Redacted. Prosecutor,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: what did redacted think was going on? Ricari, what had
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: occurred was that redacted had gotten into a fight at
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: redacted school, and subsequent after the fight they discovered 300
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: bucks in her purse. When questioning the 300 dollars, she
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: had told him that she had received it from a
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: man in Palm Beach. Prosecutor, okay, did redacted also overhear
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: a conversation where they were talking about sex that might
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: have accepted money for having sex with the man? Ricari, yes,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that's correct. She had some kind of sexual activity with
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: a man in Palm Beach. Prosecutor and was paid for it? Ricari, correct. Prosecutor, okay.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Was Detective Pagan able to find out the circumstances about
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: why the fight occurred? Ricari, it was rumored that she
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: had slept with a man in Palm Beach in at
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: redacted school. Prosecutor, she being redacted? Ricari, redacted. Question, correct.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: From the prosecutor, okay. Rakari, correct. Prosecutor, and she heard
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the rumor that she was a prostitute, and that's what
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: started the fight. Rakari, correct. Prosecutor, who did she have
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the fight with? Rakari, a girl by the name of Redacted. Prosecutor, okay.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Where the fight occurred at school? Rakari, yes. Prosecutor, who
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: actually found the money in Redacted's purse? Rakari, the freshman
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: assistant principal? Prosecutor, okay, and how much was in the purse? Ricari, 300. Prosecutor,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: was Detective Pagan able to interview Redacted? Ricari, yeah. Prosecutor,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: where did that occur? Ricari, that occurred at the Palm
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Beach Police Department. Prosecutor, okay, did Redacted initially? Well, was
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Redacted initially honest with Detective Pagan? Ricari, originally she did
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: not tell everything that occurred. It was through a subsequent interview.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: that the further information was developed. Prosecutor, what did redacted
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: tell Detective Pagan initially? Ricari, initially, she said that she
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: had gone to the house with a girl by the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: name of redacted to pick up money that was owed
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to her. When she, Detective Pagan, further questioned her, she
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: explained that she was taken to the house to provide
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: a massage to a wealthy man in Palm Beach. Prosecutor, okay,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: so she initially denied that though, and said there was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: no act on her part between this man and herself? Ricari, correct. Prosecutor, okay,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: but she ultimately told him that she went for a massage. Ricari, correct. Prosecutor,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to give him a massage? Ricari, correct. Prosecutor, okay, did
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Redacted discuss with Detective Pagan that what Redacted had told
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: her about what was going on at the house? Like,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: did you know Redacted was going to bring you here
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to do a massage and that you were going to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: get money? Ricari, yes. Prosecutor, what did redacted say redacted
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: explained to her? Ricari originally let me, if I can
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: read this, originally the first interview was done, I'm sorry,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: at redacted school. She was going to the house to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: provide the massage. It was offered to her by redacted
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to provide the massage to this man who was later
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: identified as Jeffrey Epstein. Prosecutor, okay. Did Redacted admit to
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Detective Pagan knowing that Redacted worked for this man in
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: exchange for doing sexual favors? Ricari, yes. Prosecutor, did she
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: say that she was offered the opportunity to do those
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and that's why she went there? Ricari, yes. Prosecutor, okay.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Did Detective Pagan ask Redacted if she ever discussed with
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Redacted about letting this man know her age? Ricari, um,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: it was discussed in the ride over that if if
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: she was asked her age to say that she was 18. Prosecutor, okay,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and redacted and redacted agreed that she was going to
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: do that if asked. Ricari, yes. Prosecutor, okay. Now the prosecutor, Belahovlik,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: switches gears. At this point, we're going to ask redacted
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to testify, okay? Ricari, okay. Belahovlik, please hang around. You're
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: going to testify again in a little bit. Ricari, okay. Belahovlik,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: thank you. Now... This is the witness herself who they
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: brought up and front of the grand jury and absolutely savaged.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Witness redacted. Miss Dugan, come on in. We're going to
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: have you sit over here. Could you raise your right
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: hand for me? Do you swear or affirm that the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: testimony you're about to give today will be the truth,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: you God? The witness, I do. Ms. Dugan, when you're
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: here testifying, everything's recorded with a microphone system. So you
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: have to. Can you put your hand down? You have
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: to answer as you did verbally or you can't shake
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: your head because that won't be recorded in the system
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: that's going on. So you have to say yes or no.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: You can't shake your head. And one important thing is
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you're here today before the grand jury and it's a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: crime to lie to the grand jury. And in our terms,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: we call it perjury. But in regular people's terms, it's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: lying to the grand jury. So there is one important
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: rule here today. You must tell them the truth. 100%
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the truth. There is cause you cannot. There's no penalty
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: for telling the truth. It's the opposite. If it can
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: be shown, proven that you lied to the grand jury,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: there is a crime of perjury. Do you understand that?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: That seems a bit unnecessary. No, this poor kid. The witness.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I do. Dugan. Is that a yes? The witness. Yes. Dugan. Okay.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: So move up to the microphone a little bit. And
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: be sure that you speak yes or no. And so
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that even the folks in the top of this room
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: can hear your answers, okay? The witness, okay. Examination time. Belahovlik.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: All right, could you tell me who you are? Answer,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I'm redacted. Belahovlik, how old are you? Redacted. Witness, 16. Belahovlik,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: what's your birthday? Witness, 1990. Belahovlik, how old were you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: in February of 2005? Witness, I was 14 still. Bella Hovlich,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: 14 or 15? Bella Hovlich, I was 14 still. Well,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: this happened when I was 14, so Bella Hovlich, you turned, witness,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: 15 in redacted of that year. Bella Hovlich, and you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: just turned 16 now? Witness, yeah. Bella Hovlich, okay, so
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you were just short of 15. Witness, uh-huh. Bella Hovlich,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: all right, where do you live? Witness, I live in redacted.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, where do you go to school? Witness, I'm
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: going to be starting school at Redacted School. Bella Hovlik, okay,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that's Redacted School. Uh-huh. Bella Hovlik, where did you go
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to high school in 2005? Witness, Redacted. Bella Hovlik, where
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: is that? Witness, in Redacted. Bella Hovlik, on what road? Witness, I,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlik, Redacted. Witness, yeah, probably. Bella Hovlik, what grade
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: were you in in 2005 when you were at Redacted School? Witness,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I was in 9th grade. Bella Hovlich, did you know
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: someone named Redacted? Witness, yes. Bella Hovlich, how did you
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: know Redacted? Witness, I used to date her cousin. Bella Hovlich, alright,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: how old's Redacted? Witness, at the time I think she
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: was 18 or 19, I think. Bella Hovlich, who was
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: her cousin that you dated? Witness, Redacted. Bella Hovlich, was
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Redacted going to school at Redacted? Or did you know
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: her from outside school? Witness, I knew her from outside
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the school. Bella Hovlich, how much contact did you have
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: with Redacted? Witness, I met her about, well, I met
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: her the night before I went to Jeffrey's house. Bella Hovlich, okay,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: tell us about the night when you met Redacted. Witness, um,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I was with my boyfriend, Redacted, at my house. And her,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: or his aunt, lives like four streets down from mine.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So we went to say hi to his aunt and stuff,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and Redacted was there, and I was introduced. Bella Hovlich,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: had you met her before that night? Witness, um, at
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: like a family football thing, like they had a family
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: get-together for a football game, and she was there. Bella Hovlich, okay. Witness,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: but I just said hi to her. Bella Hovlich, alright. Witness,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: like I never knew her, like who she was. Bella Hovlich,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: not a lot, a lot of conversations. Witness, yeah. Witness again,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: it was just kind of like, hi, nice to meet you.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, okay. That night you go down there, you
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: meet her. What happens? Witness? Yeah. And then it was
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: just like kind of like a regular night and we
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: were just hanging out watching TV. And then like it
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: was like 1130 ish or 10, something like that. And
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: she was like, what are you doing tomorrow? And I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: said nothing. And then she was like, oh, well, do
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: you want to make like $ 200? And I was like, yeah, sure.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: And then she was like, well, you're going to have
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to like meet my friend Jeffrey Epstein. And he lives
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: in a big... humongous mansion and like he lives on
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the water and all this stuff. And I was like, well,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: that's really cool. And she's like, but you have to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: give him a massage for like 40 minutes and that's
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: all you have to do. And you get like $ 200
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: for it. And it's really easy. And I was like, okay,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: like whatever. It's just a massage. And then redacted was like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: he was wondering what happened. And then we were just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: told him and he was like, like arguing with redacted.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And then him and Redacted went to the bathroom for
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: like a couple of minutes to argue. And Redacted had
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: like her boyfriend there. So me and him were stuck
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: in like the living room, watching TV, listening to them
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: argue for a couple of minutes, and then they came back.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Then we went outside and Redacted had called Jeffrey on
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the phone. And Jeffrey's assistant lady, I don't remember her name,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: she answered the phone. And she said that somebody that
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: could give Jeffrey a massage tomorrow. And the lady asked
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: how old I was and who I was, like what
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: my name was. But redacted said that, like, I had
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to be 18. So she told the lady I was
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: 18 and that I went to redacted and I was
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a senior and everything. And so the little assistant lady said, like, OK,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that's fine. Come in tomorrow. So then I went home.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I and she's interrupted here by Bella Hovlich. OK, let
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: me stop you here. Couple of things. Witness. OK. All right.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: We're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And that's with Bella Hovlich asking the next question, which is,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: do you know if redacted and redacted were arguing about?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up everyone and
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. We're going to pick
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: up where we left off with the grand jury transcripts
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: from down in Palm Beach. And so he left off
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: with Bela Hovlik asking questions of the witness. Bela Hovlik,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: do you know if Redacted and Redacted were what they
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: were arguing about? Witness? Yeah, because Redacted didn't want me
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to go. Because I guess he knew about, like, my,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: his cousin kind of did that already, and she's interrupted here,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and Bela Hovlik. Did that concern you, that Redacted didn't
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: want you to go, and that you were agreeing to
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: go anyway? Witness, well, yeah, cause, well, he was, I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: was like, I guess, cause I was 14, and he
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: was like 16 and stuff, and he was just like,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: don't go, don't go, don't go. And I was like, well,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: it's $ 200, and I was 14, and I was like $ 200,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: so I didn't really care what he said. Belahovlik, okay.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And from listening to Redacted, end of that phone conversation,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: The person at Jeffrey's house was trying to verify that
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: you were at least 18. Answer. Uh-huh. Question. Okay. Is
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that a yes? Witness. Yes. Sorry. Bella Hovlik. Okay. Witness.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And but like after she hung up that phone with
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the lady, she explained to me that what we went
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: back inside the house and she explained to me that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to have to like tell the lady
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: like make up a lie about my whole life. Like
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: that I went I'm graduating from redacted already that I'm
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: 18 all this stuff. and that I've known Redacted for
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: a long time. Like, just make it look like I
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: was older. And so I agreed to do all that stuff.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And then I went home for the night. And then
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: the next morning, Redacted had another lady, like, another teenage girl.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I don't remember her name. She was in the truck
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: with her. And, like, we were leaving my house, and...
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: But my dad saw. And I told him we were
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: going to the mall in Palm Beach. And my dad's like, okay.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: He didn't have a problem. And since it was Redacted,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: or Redacted's cousin... He didn't care that I was going
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: with Redacted. But he meant like we were leaving and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: my dad was coming in the office. They were like
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: pulling into my driveway and he saw Redacted and Redacted
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: asked my dad for five dollars for gas. So my
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: dad said like, yeah, sure. Five dollars, whatever. And then
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: we left. And then when we got to Jeffrey's house,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: she gets interrupted here by Bella Hovlich. Do you know
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey's full name? Witness, Jeffrey Epstein or Epstein or whatever.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, where was the house? Witness, it's in Palm Beach, whatever.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But then we pull up in the driveway. Nobody was there,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: like redacted, like he's not home. So we walked up anyways.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: We all got out of the car and there was
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: like a gate that you have to walk into to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: go to the back door. And there was like a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: security guard or whatever. And he has like a little
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: office or whatever in the back. And he saw us.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So he came up to the gate. And he asked
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: us what we were there for. And redacted said Jeffrey.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And so the guy was like, okay. And he opened
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the gate. All three of us went in to the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: back door towards the kitchen. Because I guess the kitchen's
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: right there when you open the door. So we were
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: sitting like in a bar like this. And we were
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: waiting for about 15 minutes. And then Jeffrey and the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: assistant walked in through the back door also. And that's
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: when I first met Jeffrey. And we shook hands. And
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: then the lady also introduced herself too. And then the
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: lady was talking to Redacted and to the other girl
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: for a couple of seconds. And then Jeffrey said who's
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: going to go first or whatever. and redacted and the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: other girl's like i don't care and then jeffrey's like
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: how about you pointing to me and i was like
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: okay and then i was like looking back at redacted
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and laughing and then she was just like scooted her
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: hand to go and she was laughing too and i
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: was like okay so then We, in the kitchen, it
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: was like a little hallway, not really, but it's like
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: a stairway to go upstairs, and we were walking up there.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: And the assistant lady walked me up there, and as
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey was talking to them after. And then she was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: pointing out, like, all these pictures and all this stuff,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: and then leading me to, like, a bathroom. It was, like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: really big, though. And, like, there were two closets. And
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: she went into the closet and pulled out the massage
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: table and set it out in front of, like, this couch.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And then she put like a little blanket or whatever
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: over the massage table. And then she opened up a drawer.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And there was like a whole bunch of different like
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: lotions for getting massages. And she just picked like a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: couple of them out and just set them on the
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: vanity table. There was a big, big mirror on the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: other wall opposite to the massage table. And then, and
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: then she told me to get, um, well, not undressed,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: but like put, keep your bra and panties on. And
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay. And then she said, she's interrupted
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: here by Bella Hovlich. Had Redacted told you about that before? Witness? No,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I thought, like, it was going to be a massage, like,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you keep your clothing on, and that when I got
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: in the room, that's when the lady, like, explained that
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I would have to do, just to get undressed and
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: keep my bra and panties on, and then, she's interrupted
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: by Bella Hovlik, and did you do that? witness yes
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: bella hovlich is that a yes witness yes and then
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: to stay in the room for a couple of seconds
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and then jeffrey would be coming in the room any
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: minute and then jeffrey did come in the room and
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: he said hi and he shook my hand again but
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: then he went out of the room and he got
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: undressed but he had a towel on and then he
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: came into the room again and laid belly down on
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the massage table bella hovlich okay stop a minute what
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: did this man look like this jeffrey epstein witness old
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: bella hovlich how old Witness, um, he looked like maybe 50-ish. Belahovlik, okay. Witness, 40. Belahovlik,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: how was he dressed when you initially met him? Witness,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: like he was going golfing. He just had like a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: polo t-shirt on and khaki pants. Belahovlik, okay. And how
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: were you met when you first went to his, were
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: you dressed when you first went to his house? Answer, Yeah,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I was wearing a regular t-shirt, my Hollister shirt, and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: just some jeans. Bela Hovlik. Okay, what kind of underwear
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: did you have on? Answer. A thong. Bela Hovlik. And
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the bra? What type of bra? Answer. It was a bra.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Bela Hovlik. Okay, no special. Answer. Uh-huh. Bela Hovlik. Certain type,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: but thong underwear. Were you uncomfortable getting down to your
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: bra and underwear? Answer. Yeah, like at I was kind
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of hesitant. I was like sitting in the room for
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: until Jeffrey came in, like thinking like to myself, well,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: like what's going on? Like, I don't know. I was
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: kind of hesitant, but then I just didn't care because
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I wanted $ 200 because I wanted to spend it. So
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I just didn't care. I just, and she's cut off
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: here by Bella Hovlig once again. Okay. All right. So
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: he comes out and he's in a towel. Start from there.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: answer and then he like laid on the massage table
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: like got on his stomach and then he told me
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: like to grab any of the three lotions that she
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: had put down on the table and so I just
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: grabbed one of them and then I just gave like
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I sat first I wasn't sitting on the table because
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: he was sitting on the table and it was kind
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: of like I just stood up and then I started
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: to give him a massage and then he's making conversation
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: asking me exactly what redacted was going to tell me
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to do like if What high school do you go
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to and all that stuff? So, Bella Hovlich, did he
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: ask how old you were? Answer, yes, and I, to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that she's cut off by Bella Hovlich. And what did
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: you tell him? Answer, I told him I was 18.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: And he asked me, like, what do I like to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: do in my spare time? And I said, I dance
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff and just making small talk. And
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: then he's like, oh, well, you don't have to stand up.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: You can sit on the table. And so I sat
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: on the table and I was giving him a massage.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And I think the massage, it was a couple of minutes,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: like 15 or 20 minutes. And this whole time we
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: were just conversating about anything. And he was telling me
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: how he had another house in New York and just
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff that I was like amused by.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: And then after like 20 minutes of giving him a
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: massage or 30 minutes or something, it was around that time,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: he asked me if I wanted to make an extra $ 100.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Bela Hovlik, Before we get there, let me just ask
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you a couple of things. You said that the assistant
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: had you undress? Answer, yeah. Bela Hovlik, is that a yes? Answer, yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Bela Hovlik, do you remember telling Detective Pagan that it
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: was Jeffrey Epstein that asked you to undress? Answer, no.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like positive it wasn't Jeffrey because he didn't come
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: in the room till after I was already in my
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: underwear and my bra. Bela Hovlik, okay. So if that's
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: in her report, that's incorrect. Witness, yes. Belahovlik, all right.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: When you talk about getting on the table, do you
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: recall telling Detective Pagan that you were actually straddling him
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and your... She cuts off Belahovlik here. Answer, that's, yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: That's what, when I got on the table, like, after he,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: after a couple of minutes. Belahovlik, okay. And you were
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: straddling him with your bare buttocks to his bare buttocks? Answer, yeah. Well,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: kind of. There was a towel that, like, it was
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: kind of covering his butt, but not really covering his butt.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: It was like not really covering his butt. But I
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: was laying like on his lower back near his butt.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: But like, I wasn't on his butt. Bella Hovlich, so
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: if she wrote, you stated you exposed your bare buttocks,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: were touching his bare buttocks. Answer, that'd be kind of correct.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, okay. Bella Hovlich, so how long did that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: go on when you were sitting on top of him? Answer,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Until like the massage part was over. And then he
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: like asked, well, would you like to make an extra
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars? And then I said, sure. And then he's like, but, um,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: you have to like, you're not going to be giving
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the massage anymore. It's going to be something different. And
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, what is it? And then he's like, um,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: can I use a vibrator on you? And I said, OK.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And then so then he got up and he went
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: into his like other room for a couple of seconds,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: like literally a couple of seconds and then came back
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: into the room. And next to the little vanity, big
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: mirror and all the big table there was like on
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the floor, there was just like the vibrator. It looked
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: like a vibrator to me. Bella Hovlik, what did it
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: look like? Answer, it was like purple and it was like,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it was like kind of a like massager, but not really.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Like it looked like a massager, but it wasn't really
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: a massager. And she's cut off by Bella Hovlik here.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: What was it shaped like? Answer, um, like circular in
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the top. And then it was like a handle on
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the bottom. Bella Hovlik, okay, all right. Witness, and then
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: after he grabbed that, he laid me back on the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: table and except this time he was on his back.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: And I was partially on the table, like half of
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: my butt cheek and my leg was on the table
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and the one leg was on the floor. And like
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'd put it on the couch, like cause the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: couch was right here and the table was right there.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: So it was kind of close. And I, he told
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: me to keep giving him a massage, but to give
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: a massage on his chest. Bela Hovlig, so you're sitting
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: on the table now and he's standing up. Witness? No, no, no.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: He was lying back on the table, but, like, I
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: was kind of on the table. Like, half my butt
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: and my leg was on the table, and the other
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: half was, like, part, like, on the couch. Like, I
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: was holding. She's interrupted here again by Bela Hovlik. Okay,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: but he's laying down. Witness? Yeah. Bela Hovlik? Okay. Witness? And, um,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: then I was giving a massage on his chest, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: he was still talking for a couple of minutes. Then
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: he used the vibrator. And, like, that was for, like,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: ten minutes maybe or so, I think. And then, Bela Hovlich, now,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I have to be detailed here. Where was he using
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the vibrator? Witness, can I say along my vagina? Bela Hovlich, okay. Witness,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say. Bela Hovlich, all right,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Okay. And then, and then after for a
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: couple of minutes, that's what he was doing. And then
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: he jerked off for a couple of minutes. Like I
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: was still on the table and redacted told me that if,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: if you like, if he does that, then you have
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: to get more money because that's like, he gives you
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: extra money if he jerks off anyways, because I guess
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: it's some like is indiscernible or whatever. And to that,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: she's cut off once again by Bella Hovlik and redacted
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: had told you that before answer. Mm-hmm. She, I, she
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: told me that, like, the night that I, like, had
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: this whole conversation with her, and she told me about it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlik, okay, so she didn't just tell you you
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: were going for a massage. She told you that there,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you might have to take your clothes off? Witness, no,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: she didn't tell me that I would have to take
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: my clothes off, but she said that if he jerks
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: off in front of you, then you can get more money.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlik, okay, so when he offered you the extra $ 100,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: you had a pretty good idea of what was coming next? Answer, yeah. Belahovlik, okay. Answer, and, um,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Belahovlik once again cuts her off. And when you say
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: jerked off, what do you mean? Answer, he put his
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: hand on his penis and started going up and down
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: kind of fast. Bela Hovlich, could you see his penis
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: at that point? Answer, yeah. Bela Hovlich, is that a yes? Answer, yes.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Bela Hovlich, all right, go ahead. That went on for
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: how long? Answer, a couple seconds maybe? Like, yeah, like
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: 40 seconds. And then after that, like the massage was over.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And he went into, out of the door... back to
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: wherever he goes... I couldn't see where he was going...
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: because the door... was this way... and he walked out...
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and I guess he had like... his money behind the door...
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: because it only took a couple of seconds... for him
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: to come back into the room... and then he opened
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: his money... like this wad... and gave me $ 300 bills...
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and told me thank you... and I... and then he's like...
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: there's a notepad there... next to the couch... and told
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: me to write my name and number... because I had
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a cell phone at the time... and he told me
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to write my cell phone number down... and how he
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: could get a hold of me, and all this stuff.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: So I wrote my number down, and wrote my name,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and then after that he just left the room, and
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: told me I could get dressed again, and that it
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: was done. I was over. Belahovlik, did you actually see
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: him ejaculate? Answer, no. Belahovlik, okay. Did he not ejaculate,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: or you didn't see that? Answer, if he did, I
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: didn't see it. Belahovlik, do you recall telling Detective Pagan
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it happened in a different sequence? Answer, no. Bella Hovlich,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: and that he masturbated first before he put the vibrator
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: on your vagina? Answer, maybe. This was like two and
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: a half years ago, so... Bella Hovlich, okay. Witness, that
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: could have happened. Bella Hovlich, do you recall not telling
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: her about the vibrator at all? Answer, yeah. Bella Hovlich,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the first time you talked to her? Answer, yeah, I
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: remember that because I was scared. Bella Hovlich, okay, why
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: were you scared about that? and not scared about telling
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: her that he ejaculated in front of you, or masturbated
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: in front of you. Answer, cause that's his body, and
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the vibrator's on my body. Bella Hovlich, so you didn't
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: want to admit that you had allowed him to touch you? Answer, yeah.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, and he gave you $ 300. Answer, yeah. Bella Hovlich,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you left your number so he'd contact you again? Answer, yeah.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Bella Hovlich, okay. When he left the room, what happened?
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: You got dressed? Did he take you downstairs? You go
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: downstairs by yourself? Answer, I just went downstairs by myself. Belahovlik,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: who was down there? Was the redacted still down there? Answer, uh-huh.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: The redacted was there, and the other girl was there,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: and the assistant lady. She might have been there, but
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't remember. But then after that,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: we left. Like, they didn't do anything. They didn't. She
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: got money, but she didn't do anything. Belahovlik, who? Who
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: is she? Answer from the witness. Redacted did. Bella Hovlich. Okay,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: do you know how much money she got? Answer. I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: think it was $ 300 too. Bella Hovlich. Okay. Witness. Or
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: maybe $ 200, $ 300. Bella Hovlich. Do you know what that
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: was for? Answer. No. At the time, I thought maybe
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: she did something with somebody else in the house. But
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: then I was like thinking there was only Jeffrey and
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the lady there. Like I didn't think anything of it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And I, she's cut off here by Bella Hovlich. But
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: did you learn that she got money for bringing you there? Answer, yeah.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of figured that when I got back home,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: like I was thinking about it for a while and
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: I realized, well, it's probably because she brought me there.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All of the information that goes
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.