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Transcript

Mini: Mind Reading · Why We Do What We Do

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do Mini. I am
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  Speaker 1: your host, Abraham, I'm your host, Shane. We are a
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  Speaker 1: psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: non human animals do, and we release these short episodes
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: that are just a quick dive into a topic, and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we call them a mini because they're small, meaning short.
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  Speaker 1: And this one we are going to read your minds
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  Speaker 1: and teach you how to read minds.
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  Speaker 2: One of my favorite examples of mind reading in media
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  Speaker 2: is in Ghostbusters, when Peter Bnkman is doing the experiments
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  Speaker 2: pretending like you can read minds.
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  Speaker 1: That one is pretty good. Do you notice that he
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  Speaker 1: calls it negative reinforcement when he's shocking them to try
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  Speaker 1: and teach them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes I did.
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  Speaker 1: Years later. That landed a lot differently for me than
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  Speaker 1: it did when I was a kid. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
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  Speaker 1: a great bit. Nonetheless, Anyway, that's what we're talking about,
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  Speaker 1: not Ghostbusters, although I would love to talk about Ghostbusters.
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  Speaker 1: We're actually talking about mind reading. I have some things
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  Speaker 1: to say, which is, if you're joining us for the
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  Speaker 1: first time, then welcome. I hope that you enjoy what
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  Speaker 1: you hear in this short dive. And if you're a
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  Speaker 1: returning person, then thank you for coming back, and hopefully
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  Speaker 1: you continue to find joy in the stuff that we make,
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  Speaker 1: or at least it may be is interesting. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know whatever reason got you here. I'm glad you're here. Yeah. Anyway,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: if you like to support us, you can join us
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: on Patreon like subscribe, tell a friend, leave a rating,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and a review. I'll talk more about those at the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: end of this discussion, because as I can tell, I
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  Speaker 1: can tell right now listener, while you're listening to this,
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  Speaker 1: you don't want to hear that preamble and I understand,
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  Speaker 1: and that's okay, So we'll go ahead and dive into
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  Speaker 1: our topic. DuJour, I think unless there's any other preamble
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  Speaker 1: I'm missing, No, I think you covered it beautiful, all right. So,
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  Speaker 1: being able to actually access and read the thoughts of
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  Speaker 1: another person through psychic, telepathic or some other connection is
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  Speaker 1: something that we all generally understand to be a fictional fantasy.
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  Speaker 1: I say we all pretty generously because it's not all
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  Speaker 1: of us, but no one can literally access the mind
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  Speaker 1: of another person and experience their minds working as if
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  Speaker 1: it were their own. Or do other things with their minds.
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  Speaker 1: You can't do it, but yeah, that is just an
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  Speaker 1: important part to start with, and we'll talk about why
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  Speaker 1: in a moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yet there is a surprising number of people who
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  Speaker 2: believe that this is possible and even the most likely
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  Speaker 2: explanation for some phenomenon that they might see. We'll describe
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  Speaker 2: why it's lepathy and mind reading in its science fiction
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  Speaker 2: form is impossible, and then talk about the type of
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  Speaker 2: mind reading that is actually possible. So, oh, we're gonna
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  Speaker 2: have a little bit of a curveball here for you.
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  Speaker 1: That's all right, it's coming. It's myth busting and how
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  Speaker 1: to yeah, and myth supporting. Sure, yeah, there you go.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to break it down and then build it
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  Speaker 1: back up again.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I like that. Okay. So the telepathic form of mind
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  Speaker 1: reading supposes that one can transfer information from one person's
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  Speaker 1: mind to another person's mind without any kind of physical
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  Speaker 1: connection or cues. Usually, in the way that this is portrayed,
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  Speaker 1: the telepath can send information to the mind of the recipient,
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  Speaker 1: can have the contents of the recipient's mind delivered to them,
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  Speaker 1: or some version of both, and maybe they might even
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  Speaker 1: be able to like directly control that person's behavior. But
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  Speaker 1: that's sort of how it is depicted in many fictional tellings.
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  Speaker 2: Kind of like a organic bluetooth.
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  Speaker 1: There you go, I like it, Yeah, neurological organic brain bluetooth. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's absurd, right, I mean, there is no
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  Speaker 2: reason to believe that minds possess a simple narrative that,
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  Speaker 2: if access is easily understood, our thoughts are fast, vast,
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  Speaker 2: interconnected patterns layered on top of each other that makes
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  Speaker 2: sense only to us. Thoughts can rapidly melt and reform
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  Speaker 2: into new, random sequences of relations. Most likely it is
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  Speaker 2: extremely individualized and unique, and even if you could access this,
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  Speaker 2: it would be a garbled, incomprehensible mess to a non
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  Speaker 2: native user.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So if like I try to read your actual thoughts,
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  Speaker 1: I might not be able to interpret them at all.
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  Speaker 1: Like there's so much going on you go all the time? Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Like the feeling would be very overwhelming at the least, right,
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  Speaker 1: and possibly impossible to even do anything with. Right, And
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  Speaker 1: there's no actual reason to think that our thoughts are
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  Speaker 1: even really words. A lot of the time, I think
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  Speaker 1: a lot of time they're just concepts. They're just ideas.
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  Speaker 1: They're like sometimes they're pictures, sometimes they're words. Sometimes they're
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  Speaker 1: just like a referent that exists in the world. So
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  Speaker 1: there is no listening in to someone's thinking, because most
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  Speaker 1: people are not thinking in sentences or even like comprehensive
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  Speaker 1: dialogue of any sort. Now, further, in what world and
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  Speaker 1: what scenario can we obtain or deliver information without any
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  Speaker 1: kind of physical interaction? There's none none world In everything
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  Speaker 1: we in everything we do, we are responding to a
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  Speaker 1: physical cueue of some sort. We cannot look at a
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  Speaker 1: book and know its contents simply by looking at it,
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  Speaker 1: although some speed readers claim this, we cannot know the
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  Speaker 1: contents of a safe. We did not feel otherwise, like,
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  Speaker 1: what are we responding to in these situations? Like every
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  Speaker 1: single thing that we ever respond to, we have some
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  Speaker 1: kind of queue for Now you can sit there and
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  Speaker 1: like just think in your mind for a while and
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  Speaker 1: just be reflective and think, and that's fine. And all
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  Speaker 1: you're doing is responding to a whole bunch of cues.
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  Speaker 1: Whether or not they're present doesn't really matter. You can
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  Speaker 1: still behave with respects to them because they do exist
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  Speaker 1: and did exist somewhere, and more importantly, You're not actually
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  Speaker 1: accessing new information about any part of the world when
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  Speaker 1: you do that, right, You're just reflecting on things you
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  Speaker 1: already have in there. Right.
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  Speaker 2: Some people have said that they just kind of get
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  Speaker 2: a feeling, which is likely true. But what did that
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  Speaker 2: come from? And what does it mean to say that
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  Speaker 2: we have a quote unquote connection to something psychically or elopathically?
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  Speaker 2: What is a quote unquote connection? There are actually no answers,
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  Speaker 2: and it means nothing. These are just words that have
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  Speaker 2: meanings that have been metaphorically massaged and stretched into meaninglessness
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  Speaker 2: and their attachment to the idea of telepathy.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: So.
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  Speaker 1: The other thing that I think I didn't think about
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  Speaker 1: and I was putting this together is the fact that
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  Speaker 1: like we often, like in retrospect, feel like I knew
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  Speaker 1: that was going to happen. I think we say this
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  Speaker 1: a lot, Oh I thought that was going to be
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  Speaker 1: the case, and almost never did we articulate that before
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  Speaker 1: it was the case. Like, right, there are some times
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  Speaker 1: where that's true, like we literally predicted something was going
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  Speaker 1: to happen and then it did. Sure, like them not
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  Speaker 1: denying that that happens. But I think a lot of
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  Speaker 1: times we fool ourselves into thinking we were more certain
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  Speaker 1: of something than we actually were. We fool ourselves into
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  Speaker 1: thinking that we believed something that we actually were much
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  Speaker 1: less sure that we believed at the time. Right, all right,
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  Speaker 1: So let's talk about when mind reading is real, and
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  Speaker 1: I'll give a brief demonstration. I know for a fact
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  Speaker 1: that you don't want to hear these ads, but how'd
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  Speaker 1: you know? All right, we're back. We have described slightly
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  Speaker 1: some of the reasons that mind reading is absurd and
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. There's actually a lot more.
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  Speaker 1: This probably could have been a full length discussion, but
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  Speaker 1: let's get into the conditions under which there is a
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  Speaker 1: true version of mind reading, kind of if you stretch
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  Speaker 1: the definition of what that might be.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, now, there's a form of mind reading understood by many,
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  Speaker 2: if not most, psychologists and related principles to me of
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  Speaker 2: legitimate discussion, and which is rapidly interpreting subtle cues and
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  Speaker 2: a shared history.
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  Speaker 1: So you have body language, speech patterns, and understanding of
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  Speaker 1: contextual environmental features and practicing interpreting these behaviors, and that
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  Speaker 1: can produce something that looks like mind reading. So if
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  Speaker 1: you're recognizing those features of body language and like understanding
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  Speaker 1: what's going on in the environment. The more you do that,
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  Speaker 1: the better you're going to get at sort of understanding
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  Speaker 1: and predicting behavior.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we can interpret tone, pauses and cadence of speech,
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  Speaker 2: facial expressions, and other postures in a way in a
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  Speaker 2: way that provides insight into a person's individual thoughts and experiences.
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  Speaker 1: This is often referred to as a form of something
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  Speaker 1: called theory of mind. We actually discussed this many years ago.
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  Speaker 1: It's probably come up since then, but it has to
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  Speaker 1: do with how and what we predict what someone else
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  Speaker 1: will do. A classic example is being able to mentally
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  Speaker 1: switch places with someone. Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine
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  Speaker 1: you are where they are. How would you be feeling,
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  Speaker 1: what would you be thinking. We kind of do this
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  Speaker 1: a lot in basic empathetic responses, and some people get
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  Speaker 1: very good at this. Yeah, they can sit there and imagine, Wow,
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  Speaker 1: where I in your position. I would be really frustrated
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  Speaker 1: by this, I'd be really excited by this. I'd be
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  Speaker 1: really whatever and understanding, like where someone else is coming from.
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  Speaker 1: That's what theory of mind is.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And a very basic example is simply a knowledge
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  Speaker 2: of another person's training in the context in which they
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  Speaker 2: find themselves. If you know someone, let's call her Charlotte
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  Speaker 2: for this example, it has been trained to play piano.
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  Speaker 2: Then Charlotte is hired to play piano at an event
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  Speaker 2: and she sits down with a piece of music, you
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  Speaker 2: can probably guess what she'll do next, play the music.
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  Speaker 2: While this might seem like a kind of a trite example,
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  Speaker 2: considered an analogy to how we predict and understand others behaviors.
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  Speaker 2: We know a little bit about their history, we know
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  Speaker 2: about kind of patterns of behavior, we know what to
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  Speaker 2: predict next. We kind of know what they're thinking or
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  Speaker 2: what they might go to in the next series of events.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's just the most like sort of overtly
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  Speaker 1: obvious example that I mean, there are many that you
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  Speaker 1: could come up with that are similar to this, but
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  Speaker 1: one it's like if someone who you know that they've
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  Speaker 1: been trained to play music, they've been hired to play
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  Speaker 1: this music, they sit down at a piano, let's say
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  Speaker 1: piano specifically, with a piece of music. Like if you
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  Speaker 1: are shocked that they suddenly started playing music, I would
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  Speaker 1: wonder what was wrong with you. But that's an example
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  Speaker 1: of like us understanding that, Like, we take that prediction
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  Speaker 1: for granted, but we're we're doing that a lot in
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  Speaker 1: other scenarios with less clear information, and sometimes we still
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  Speaker 1: get really good at doing the same thing but with
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  Speaker 1: different context and less clear information, at least just through practice. Now,
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  Speaker 1: that takes us to this idea of a shared history.
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  Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, and this refers to the
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  Speaker 1: idea that the more time and experiences you have with
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  Speaker 1: another person, the more likely you'll be able to predict
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  Speaker 1: and understand what they think and feel and what they'll
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  Speaker 1: do in any given situation. People who have been in
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: long term relationships definitely have this right. They definitely have like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I know when my partner is feeling whatever, sad, happy, scared.
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  Speaker 1: You know them because you've been around them for so long,
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  Speaker 1: and like, in a sense you're reading their mind.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 1: Someone else who doesn't know them might look at them
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  Speaker 1: and have no clue whatsoever what they're thinking or feeling,
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  Speaker 1: but like you, as someone who's been around them for
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  Speaker 1: a long time, probably have a pretty good idea.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And we do a version of this when we
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  Speaker 2: say my mom would hate that, or or my friend
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  Speaker 2: would love that, or my partner would know what to
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  Speaker 2: do in this situation. When we know someone's history intimately enough,
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  Speaker 2: we can predict with some level of accuracy what they
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  Speaker 2: will do, what they'll say, what they'll think, or what
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  Speaker 2: they'll feel in a given situation. And if you pay
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: attention to your partner or the people in your life,
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  Speaker 2: you can do this really, really well, to the point
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  Speaker 2: where they will think that you are an actual mind
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  Speaker 2: reader or like I get called in my life, a lot.
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  Speaker 1: O, which do you weigh the same as a duck?
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Just turn me into a new That's a multi Python
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: reference and the Holy Grail specifically for those who don't know.
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  Speaker 1: All right, we're close to wrapping this one up, then,
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  Speaker 1: So why do people pursue this? Why do they like
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: talking about it? Why do they think about it? I think,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: first of all, entertaining fantastical hypotheses is fun. It's yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's a fun thing to do. Also, as we mentioned earlier,
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  Speaker 1: we can hear words that say something like a connection
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  Speaker 1: to another mind, and we use metaphorical language such as
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  Speaker 1: reading their mind, and we know what the word reading means.
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  Speaker 1: We know what the word connection means, at least broadly speaking,
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  Speaker 1: and so we can make them seem like they make sense,
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  Speaker 1: Like that series of words is grammatically fine, even though
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  Speaker 1: logically it makes no sense, but we can like hear it,
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  Speaker 1: understand it, and start to apply it in sort of
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  Speaker 1: a metaphorical way, metaphor turned reality, I guess, in a sense.
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  Speaker 1: So that's a lot of the reason. Some people do
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: this because they use it as a scam to make money.
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  Speaker 1: Some people do this because they just don't know how
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  Speaker 1: to think, and thinking is hard for them, and sure,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: so they just believe things. But yeah, that's what I
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: got for that part.
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  Speaker 2: And another thing too that you'll hear a lot. And
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  Speaker 2: it's surprising because I've heard people say this, Like they'll say, like,
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  Speaker 2: autistic people are telepathic or they can read people's minds easily.
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  Speaker 2: That's not true. Yeah, that idea of autistic people being
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: telepathic is actually kind of ridiculous. And to be fair,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: nobody is telepathic or or can read minds. Like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: anybody who claims to be able to read minds is
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  Speaker 2: a lie fraud. There is no way to have a
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  Speaker 2: bluetooth connection with somebody else's organic neurological matter, Like, we
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  Speaker 2: just can't do that right now. It just doesn't make any.
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  Speaker 1: Sense ironically, Actually, it's specifically called out that, like a
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  Speaker 1: very common feature of autism and a lot of diagnoses
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  Speaker 1: is struggling with theory of mind. It is struggling with
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  Speaker 1: perspective taking, It is struggling with reading minds. So it's
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  Speaker 1: particularly absurd in that case to assume that not only
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  Speaker 1: do they not struggle with it, but they are actually
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  Speaker 1: magically good at it, like above and beyond experts, they
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: are actually doing real magic. Is how people argue that.
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  Speaker 1: So anyway, that's ridiculous. We understand it's ridiculous. We're not
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: advocating for that, but I think that's the way I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: have to say about mind reading. So we can close
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: this one out. Is there anything you'd like to add
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: or anything I forgot before we wrap this up?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Nothing on my end?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: All right, So let's quickly say thank you to our
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: patrin supporters. If you'd like to join us on Patreon,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I will read your name in the list of our
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: patron supporters. On our full length episodes, you also get
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: bonus con behind the seats content, all that sort of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: good that all that good stuff. You can also leave
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: us a rating and review, like and subscribe where you
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: listen to things when we listen to podcasts, specifically, tell
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a friend, and of course you can tell us your
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: thoughts about mind reading. Email us directly and fell at
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: wwdwwdpodcast dot com or reach us on the social media platforms,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and we do look forward to hearing from you. Thank
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you so much for listening. Thank you to my team
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of people. Thank you for recording with me today.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Shane, hey anytime, Thank you for having me.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: All right, I went through that very fast. I think
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: we're ready to say her goodbye. So yeah, thanks for listening.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: This is Abraham and this is Shane. Why we Do
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: what we Do? Mini is out Bye. You've been listening
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what We Do.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com. Thanks for listening and we
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: hope you have an awesome day