Latest / Skin Anarchy / Discovering the Intersection of Genetics and Skin Health : CODEX Labs Launches Two DNA Tests

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Discovering the Intersection of Genetics and Skin Health : CODEX Labs Launches Two DNA Tests · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, if you haven't already, please don't forget to subscribe to us on Spotify Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, or wherever it is that you tune into our show.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is so greatly appreciated.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wanted to pop in before the episode because Codex Labs has offered our listeners a 50% off their DNA kits.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you are interested in purchasing these kits, you can do so by going to Codex Labs website and typing in the code TRIDNA TEST50.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is all one word.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Try DNA test 50 and it will give you 50% off.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely hurry to get this offer because only the first 50 people that buy the kits will be getting 50% off.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And again, please hit the subscribe button, follow us on all of our channels, and stay tuned for an amazing episode with the founder of Codex Labs.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is another episode in the Masterclass series with Codex Labs that um I'm very, very excited about every time we record one of these episodes.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So once again, we have the brilliant Dr.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Barbara Paldas with us today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, Barb.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be chatting with you again.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know you guys have been working on something very special um recently at Codex.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait to dive in.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have Ecta and it's great to be back.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me back on.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's it's such an honor every time.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I can't wait to learn about what's been going on.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you could tell us a little bit about um the DNA kits.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed you guys launched your DNA kits for skin and vitamin deficiency.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you could kind of dive into that and tell us, you know, um what led to that creation?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to actually help people get themselves screened for skin conditions.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're all made up of genes, right?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's basically the recipe for things like our hair color, skin tone, and a lot more.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, because our DNA contains these instructions that our body follows, kind of like an operating manual, um, understanding your genetic code, including variations and how it differs from the average person, tells you a lot about your body, especially your skin.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, vitamin deficiency and skin conditions like eczema, psoriasis, acne, or rosacea are oftentimes linked.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we have two kits.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the decode my skin DNA includes 24 skin-related genes that help you better understand the chances of experiencing certain types of these conditions, as well as advising what steps may help improve your general skin care.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then the vitamins DNA test looks at 23 vitamin-related genes to better help understand your ability to absorb, deliver them through your body, convert them, and metabolize vitamins A through E, and then what this actually implies for your skin.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: That metabolism part really got me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that a lot of people are talking about like gut health and how it, you know, relates in terms of absorption and stuff.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really interesting to be able to tell from a genetic level.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I want you to tell us, Barb, a little bit more about the I know, you know, as scientists, we can sit here and talk about DNA and RNA and all this wonderful genetic stuff.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you could walk us through some basics, you know, for the listeners, um, dive into the genetic basics.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna take a little bit of time, Ecta, and we'll also define some of the terms that we're gonna be using during this podcast.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we're all made up of cells.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Our cells contain DNA.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a mouthful.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll just call it DNA.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically the genetic material that's present in us and pretty much all organisms.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So every cell in our body has some DNA.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: The majority of it is in our cell nucleus, which is why we talk about nuclear DNA, but there's also a small amount in our mitochondria.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the mitochondria, uh, people may have heard about them, they're basically the powerhouses of cells, and they're thought to be deeply involved in the aging process, actually.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they're the structures that enable cells to have energy from food and basically to be converted into a form called ATP, adenois and triphosphate that cells can use.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this information in the DNA is stored as a code.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's made up of four bases, chemical bases.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So A, G, C, T, which stands for adenine, guanine, cytosine, thymine.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you just have to remember four letters A, G, C, T.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And our DNA consists of about three billion of these bases.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and more than 99% of the ordering of these bases is the same in all of us.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the exact order or the sequence in which every one of these bases appear is actually really important.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So think of it, it's like your blueprint.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this DNA sequence then represents all the biological information that is used for building and maintaining our bodies in the same way that you can think of letters of the alphabet appear in a certain sequence to form words or sentences.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So also in the DNA, some of these bases pair up with each other.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So A pairs up with T, C pairs up with G, and these units are then called base pairs because it's a pair of bases.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think of the DNA as that ladder or that double helix, A is on one side and T is on the other side.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly, C is on one side, then G is on the other.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then each of these bases is attached to a sugar and a phosphate, and that's what people call a nucleotide.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when you talk about nucleotides, um, it's basically this base, ACGT, paired up with a sugar and a phosphate.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Nucleotides, yeah, nucleotides are then arranged in the two long strands, and that's that spiral that we often think of as that double helix of DNA.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that structure is like a twisted ladder, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: With the base pairs forming the ladder's rungs, and the sugar and phosphate form the vertical side pieces of that ladder.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to, it's kind of hard to describe in a podcast without a picture.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, but you're doing an amazing job.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can visualize it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hope everyone was thinking visualize it because you can.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's so think of like a ladder and you twist it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like a spiral with the rungs of the ladder in between it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so the important property of this DNA is its ability to duplicate itself, to replicate, make copies.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, each strand in this double helix then serves as the pattern for this replication and replicating all the bases.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is critical when cells divide because each new cell needs to have an exact copy of the DNA in the old cell.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the DNA in turn gets packaged into these structures that look like an X that are called chromosomes and they contain numerous genes.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then once you aggregate all this genetic material in the chromosomes, that's what we call the genome.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I know it's a lot of terms to remember, but I think we've covered the basics.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, when you guys are looking at this uh concept art for this episode, I like I'll put some pictures in to help with uh Mars explanations.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was a really good rundown.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I can't wait to learn about you know where the testing really comes in.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, you're looking.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us about like what are these tests looking at in that scope, you know, from what everything you've defined?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are they really testing?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So these tests looked at genetic variants, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And why are they important?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, well, first of all, let's talk about what it means.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the term genetic variant means there's a permanent change in that DNA sequence, and that can affect the DNA building blocks, these nucleotides within a gene.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so genetic variants can either be inherited from a parent or they can occur during your lifetime through exposure.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the inherited variants are passed really from parent to child, and they're there throughout the person's life, virtually in every cell in the body, and they come from the egg and the sperm uniting, resulting in the fertilized egg, which contains the DNA from both parents, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And any variants that are present in that DNA directly come from your parents.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if your parents had eczema, you might have a higher chance of getting eczema.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: The non-inherited variants, um, which are called somatic variants, they occur at some point during your life and they're only present in certain cells, so not all cells.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they can't be passed on to subsequent generations because they were caused by your environment.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so these non-inherited variants can be from exposure to UV radiation, um, or it can be a copying error, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're looking at the DNA copying itself billions and billions and billions of times during your lifetime as you generate new cells, it's not perfect.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it can just be a transcription error.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the most common variants are called single nucleotide polymorphisms.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to remember that, just remember SNP.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they basically describe the change in a single nucleotide within the genome, and that's basically the difference in a single base.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, this A, C, G, or T that we talked about earlier changes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So where you're expecting to find an A, you don't.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the nucleotide change is then considered an SNP if it's observed in more than 1% of the human population.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: If it's in less than 1% of the human population, it could just be a random mutation.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you start seeing more than 1% of the human population have it, then it can usually be associated to something happening in the body.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So an SNP occurs on average in one out of 300 nucleotides.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you put that back into the context of the 3 billion nucleotides we have, it's about 10 million variations in every person's genome.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: The majority of these totally harmless.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they're often used by scientists as biological markers if they're looking at a medical condition.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But some SNPs are definitely related to specific medical or skin issues.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I want to actually talk about some of those major medical uh, you know, just pathologies that we see, diseases that we are um kind of aware of, you know, um, in terms if you could point some out, you know, that are linked to genetic um variants and us inheriting them.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at um, you know, examples, what comes to mind are cystic fibrosis, uh muscular dystrophy, hemophilia, um, sickle cell anemia, um, things like Huntington's disease.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, where it's clear that the influence of the genetic variation has a distinct impact on the health of that individual.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, assessing the degree of that influence can actually be complicated, though.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So large changes to a person's genome sometimes can have no effect at all, whereas sometimes that single nucleotide can have a huge impact.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, it's just this fascinating statistical exercise.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say that as we said before, like most variants don't lead to the development of a condition.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and those that do, though, are uncommon in the general population.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So again, people don't need to worry, but some variants do occur often enough to be considered common genetic variations.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, these variations, for example, can cause differences between eye color, hair color, blood type.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and although many of these variations have no negative effects, um, some may influence the probability of certain disorders.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that there's a lot of stuff like, you know, like we learn about, for example, um certain demographics, you know, uh are more susceptible to certain diseases and certain illnesses and pathologies that are linked genetically.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's very interesting, this whole um conversation around variants, you know, and I want to learn actually and move into how we can really measure them because I know you had mentioned that, you know, not everything that you um, not everything is inherited, right?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, like moving from that, you know, what do we use to measure these variants?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you can dive into that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So companies like 23andMe or Ancestry have made DNA sequencing very popular.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and genetic testing, it's essentially a medical type of test that identifies changes in your genes, these chromosomes or proteins.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the results of this test can usually confirm or rule out a specific um suspected genetic condition, say like breast cancer, or help determine your chance of developing or passing on the genetic disorder, like TI-Sachs disease, for example, in Jewish populations or sickle cell anemia in African-American populations.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So currently there's tens of thousands of genetic tests in use.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, many others are being developed.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they screen everything from cancers to skin conditions like us.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but all the DNA sequencing underneath it is more or less the same.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it involves basically determining the order of these chemical buildings of blocks, these bases like A, T, C, G, you know, and what order they come up in that DNA molecule.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so the sequence reveals the kind of genetic information in that particular DNA segment.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for example, scientists can use sequence information to determine which portions of the DNA contains the genes and which portions contain those instructions that turn the genes on and off.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then in addition, the sequence data can highlight changes that can impact your biology, like within the body and its functioning.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in the worst case, you know, shed light on your likelihood to develop a disease or a condition.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where the genetic testing comes into play.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so um, you know, right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's remarkable to me.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sure, you know, you have your thoughts on it, but just about, you know, what, 50 years ago, we weren't having these conversations, but now we're able to actually look at our own code and you know, really bring it to this like OTC level of, you know, accessibility.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's huge.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's so exciting to be able to be here, you know, and and witness this kind of change in, you know, just cell biology, genetics.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to be able to do that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how technology's brought the cost of genetic sequencing down.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like the stuff we're doing today would have been unimaginable 20 years ago, cost-wise and accessibility-wise.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's phenomenal.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, with that, I I want to ask, you know, are there different levels of this genetic testing?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um there absolutely are ECTA.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like we said, you know, some people look at genes, some people look at chromosomes, some people look at the proteins.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but all of these tests really sequence the DNA to look at the variations, the mutations in those genes.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that can basically cause or increase the probability of having that genetic disorder.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And even, you know, the tests themselves can be very narrow or large in scope, you know, a lot of SNPs or limited number of SNPs, but ultimately they analyze those DNA building blocks.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they analyze one or more genes, or some of them now screen like your entire DNA, like your entire genome.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, chromosomal genetic tests, which are not as common, analyze the whole chromosome or very long lengths of the DNA to see if there are large genetic changes, for example, such as extra copies of chromosomes that may cause a genetic condition.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, biochemical genetic tests can assess the amount or activity level of proteins in some diseases or enzymes when you have abnormalities.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that can be potentially indicative of changes in the DNA that can again be the sign of a genetic disorder.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: But here we're talking kind of major diseases, we're not talking skin conditions.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did um what kind of tests then did Codex develop um on the spectrum?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, um we look at diagnostic tests for looking at skin problems.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um, if I divide genetic tests, they can be divided into three general categories.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So diagnostic tests are there to find the genetic cause of an existing condition.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, predictive tests, predictive diagnostic tests are used to determine, for example, whether a person has a certain genetic characteristic that can either influence a treatment or lead to the development of a condition.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the goal of these tests is to use that information to develop a treatment plan or a prevention plan.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, prognostic tests, essentially diagnostic tests are there to predict the probability of experiencing the condition in the future and trying to minimize it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, while there's several different kinds of genetic tests with no single genetic test being available for all the genetic conditions, the approach is still individualized based on the condition being tested for.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, um, single gene tests look for changes in one gene.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Panel genetic tests look for changes in humorous genes at a time.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Genetic testing panels are grouped into categories based on different kinds of medical concerns.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, in our case, skin conditions.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and panel genetic tests can also comprise, for example, genes that are all associated with the higher probability of developing certain kinds of issues, cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is the type of test that we offer, specifically, as I said, for skin conditions and vitamin deficiencies.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why those two again?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're often coupled and you need to know about both to fully treat eczoma, psoriasis, um, rosacea, or acne.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's one last kind of genetic testum called exome testing, and that looks at either all the genes in the DNA or just the genes that are related to very specific medical conditions.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this kind of genome testing is the largest genetic test.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it looks at the entire DNA, not just their genes.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So exome and genome are kind of large-scale genomic testing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's still very, very expensive.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's usually ordered by a medical doctor for people with very complex medical histories, you know, diabetes coupled to cardiovascular disease, coupled to breast cancer, for example.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this kind of large-scale genomic testing is also used a lot in research for development of medication and therapies to really learn more about what the genetic causes are of these conditions and how to develop new therapeutics for them.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I can imagine those are very expensive to do.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I hope that in the future it's gonna get to a point where we can even, you know, have a lot of access to those as well.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just feel like when you have that much knowledge, you know what I mean?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so great to know this is what's might be leading to this downstream sequelae, you know, that I'm experiencing where whatever organ system you're talking about.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: But that's so fascinating.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to know, like, um, in terms of companies, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do they perform genetic sampling?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you could talk to us about that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like, how did Codex pick um what kind of sample type you guys went with?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So genetic tests are usually performed on various types of samples, so blood or cheek swab samples.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they may they can also be done on like hair, saliva, pieces of skin.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when you think of, you know, looking at your fetus on amniotic fluid, for example, if you're looking for genetic um diseases that may have been inherited during pregnancy or pretty much any other tissue, to be honest.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So in all cases, the sample sent to a lab, the lab needs to be certified to perform these tests.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so at Codex, we basically chose cheek swab because it's so easy to swab your cheek.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're easy to collect, they're robust to so you can ship them back to the lab by mail.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all kind of familiar with swabs, you know, maybe not in our nose, but in our cheek post-COVID.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we figured that that would be easy for everybody to do.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after what does the lab do with it after it goes to the lab?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the lab needs to sequence it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that basically means examine how all these ACGT nucleotides are basically organized and sequence them to glean basically the code.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, sequencing actually has been around a lot longer than most people might think.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, basically in 1972, a scientist named Walter Fear sequenced the first protein.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, basically as a protein of a virus known as a bacteriophage.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And since then, you know, basically since the 80s, though, it's really, really taken off.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And modern sequencing has three steps.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you purify the sample and then you replicate the DNA of interest, then you read the sequence, and then you compare the results to other sequences.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so purification and replication, that's a process called PCR, polymero chain reaction, very, very common.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's equivalent to basically sticking the DNA in a copy machine.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it has its own complexities that we're not going to go into here.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've done so many of PCR wrongs in my life.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can't go through a biology class today without doing PCR.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then basically, we uh most labs now do Sanger sequencing or next generation sequencing, uh, where each of the nucleic acid fluoresces.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So basically emits light of a different color with a um, and these colors are then detected and registered.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so the sequence is then converted to a list of values in a computer.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so like A is one color, C is a different color, G is a different color, T is a different color.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then the sequence then is compared to a library of sequences that were painstakingly created during big projects like the Human Genome Project, so that we actually can interpret that data.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the library allows basically the computerized sequencing system to identify what actually it's examining.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going to try to explain all of this on Instagram.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if your uh listeners follow us, they'll be able to delve into you know genetics and what is genetics and how is the sequencing done and read it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll even have papers if they want to read more.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we want to educate about um DNA sequencing.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that though.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is such cool stuff, Barb.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, this is the next level, you know, in skin health.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's been um, you know, it's been on the radar for me as a consumer, you know, for so long, where it's like, I need to know what's, you know, what could potentially impact my skin.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: But this is phenomenal.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited that you guys are doing this.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for the next, like the next question is really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: About, you know, once somebody has gone through this testing, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they are getting their test results, um, well, how can they be sure that the test is valid and it's actually useful?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And is there anything that they want to that they should ask the company about, you know, in terms of the testing and the way the results are delivered, or anything?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's an excellent point.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cause this is different from Ancestry and Me, where you kind of find out, you know, all the different parts of the world your genetics comes from, or 23andMe, where they kind of give you a panel and you hope you don't kind of freak out that you have cancer.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's like the genetic test has to provide not just an accurate result based on the analytics and clinical validity, but it has to have utility.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has to actually tell you something that you can understand.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, like analytical validity, that's how well the test predicts the presence or absence of that particular gene.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: That has to be a given.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like the test has to accurately detect whether that specific genetic variant is present or absent.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the clinical validity then is how that genetic variant being analyzed will influence the presence, absence, or probability of your condition.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, clinical utility often refers to, you know, how you've picked the genes in that test and if it can really provide helpful information for diagnosis, treatment, management, prevention, you know, of that specific condition.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I would hope that all labs that perform these health-related tests, um, including genetic testing, are in fact, you know, certified.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're subject to federal regulatory standards, right?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: CLIA, um, clinical laboratory improvement amendments or even stricter state standards in some cases.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that a minimum that your report has a CLIA, you know, certificate at the bottom of it signed by the quality director of the lab doing it, because CLIA standards cover how these tests are performed.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the qualifications of the lab personnel.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want just anybody walking off the street running this instrument, quality control, testing procedures, making sure the samples don't get contaminated, you know, basic things like that.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so CLIA controls essentially the quality of the lab practices.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and therefore, CLIA ensures that you have analytical validity of the genetic test.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So consumers should definitely, you know, um look for that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: But CLIA will not address the clinical validity or the clinical utility, right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's the company that designed the genetic test.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, FDA uh will require information about clinical validity for some genetic tests, particularly those that have been developed by the lab.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and additionally, states can require additional information on clinical validity for lab tests for people in that state.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So test takers, medical providers, um typically the ones who evaluate the clinical utility of genetic tests.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is why when you buy a codex test, um, it is prescribed by a medical professional.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're actually assigned a medical professional in your state, and they you fill out a health general health questionnaire, and then they will actually prescribe the test um before we send it to you because the lab then, the CLIA lab we use, then needs that prescription um to officially do that test.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it is through like a doctor's office and stuff that you have to get it then.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's transparent, it's transparent to the consumer.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um they'll only find out if there's a problem.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if it goes through, you know, there's no problem.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's been approved by the doctor, and you're good to go.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really cool because I I was thinking for a second that it was just like anyone can get it, and you're just, you know, uh it's well just out there, you know.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: But this is cool.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I like that it's regulated like that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's because we're looking at skin conditions, right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're not looking at your ancestry.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're looking at, you know, issues.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's it's a great approach.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: But also, um, I want to ask, how do you read a genetic test report?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, um, like really interpret it, like what the results mean and uh what you can take away from it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this is probably gonna be a longer answer because I know a lot of companies just throw the report at you and you're kind of reading it and you're kind of wondering, you know, you they throw the data at you, and then they have some kind of interpretation, and you're wondering, well, is that true?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that not true?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the problem is that the results of genetic tests are not always straightforward.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that can make them challenging to interpret and explain to like a regular person.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: The measurements themselves are statistical, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like we said, 1% or 5%, or you know, so what does that mean?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that may be difficult for, you know, most people to interpret this basic concept that scientists and geneticists study because they study groups of people with these gene expression, these SNPs, or more complex changes in the genetic code, um, such as insertions and deletions into the genes.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they note frequencies with which that change is associated with that physical change or that problem, and then where that change is physical or is inherited.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's all these statistics and all this interpretation that really needs to be done by an expert.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, given the subtlety in understanding these statistics and their meaning, we really recommend that people discuss the results of their genetic tests with either a licensed medical professional or a genetic counselor to decipher them, which is why every one of our tests comes with actually a 30-minute consultation with a genetic counselor.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: We don't give you the test and just go here.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: First you have the consultation, the genetic counselor walks you through it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: 30 minutes, we thought is a reasonable amount of time to go through everything.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we send you your report.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: We also send you the genetic counselor notes because so let me give you an example.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, if you have a positive result, you know, so they found a change in a particular, you know, gene, chromosome, or protein.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And depending on the purpose, it may confirm a diagnosis, indicate you're a carrier of that variant, identify a probability of developing that condition, you know, it can be exomasterysis, you know, different tests could be breast cancer, which could be very serious, or suggest the need for further testing.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem is that a positive result of this predictive genetic test usually can't give you the exact probability of developing that disorder or the disease.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so the healthcare provider typically can't use a positive result to predict the severity.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, even though rare, test results can also be false positives.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is where the professional has to take into account, you know, everything about the person because they may not be suffering from the condition, but they may test positive.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is why, again, we want the genetic counselor to review that data as well as that health questionnaire.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, conversely, negative result might mean they didn't find the variant.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: You might not have it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you may not be affected by that particular disorder, be a carrier, but it could also mean that the test failed to identify that condition.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So tests can't detect all the genetic for condition changes for a particular disorder because there's still science that's happening.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: We don't necessarily know all the genes that cause that particular disorder.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: We know some of the genes.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're sure that even a smaller number of those genes are definitely correlated.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's a statistical, it's an imprecise, it's a science and evolution.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where the professional can say, well, maybe we should retest you, or we need to confirm that negative result.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because say you have a family history of something then and you get a negative result, you might want to just double check.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in some cases, some of these, you know, test reports don't really give you any useful information.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the type of test I refer to as kind of indeterminate, inconclusive, ambiguous.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's basically because of this environmental natural variation in the DNA, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: They may not totally affect your health.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there in the in that case, you know, there's usually not enough scientific research to confirm the association.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where we're very, very careful.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not the case.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So all of our tests, we've really, as I said, we've scoured the literature over two years, looked at all these genome-wide association studies.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we've made absolutely sure that our SNPs have sufficient scientific evidence to be clinically meaningful.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really great that you guys have that built-in genetic counseling.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I can't even tell you.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, my I think I got uh genetic testing done once for like my endocrinologist had it done.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I could it took about five minutes to explain my results.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt a little, you know, just hard.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, can I get a little bit more time or you know, can you go into this more?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's a very important aspect of it is understanding what is actually going on, you know, and what your code is really telling you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's really what it comes down to.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I I love that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you guys built that into the experience.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um exactly.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, again, we do that health questionnaire.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And some of that health questionnaire also has to do with like, you know, your family history because the genetic counselor needs to take that into account as well.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they're they're trained professionals, so they can, you know, and once they have also that discussion with you and you get the report, it will mean a whole lot more.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'll understand it a whole lot better.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and putting that to context to everything, absolutely.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, now I want to ask, uh, you know, again about the codex specific test, you know, that you guys created.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me an example of any specific skin condition where I should consider genetic testing?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about eczema or atopic dermatitis, as it's often called, which plagues about, you know, millions of people worldwide.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about 32 to 35 million in the US alone.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's that red, itchy, dry, inflamed patches of skin that are uncomfortable.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you want to scratch them.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and a common question is whether it's hereditary.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore, what can you do to manage and prevent it if, say, both parents have eczema and they have a baby?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the problem is that the answer is it can be hereditary, right?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's against statistics and probabilities.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think understanding the components, and this is exactly why we have these screens, is important for managing it and preventing flare-ups.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there's definitely a strong genetic component.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if one or both of your parents have it, um, chances are much, much higher that you'll develop it as well.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we've identified specific genes, for example, that are associated that make it a hereditary skin conditions, and they're responsible essentially for the skin's ability to make an effective barrier, like to make a solid, strong skin barrier against environmental irritants and allergens.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem is so if you have the phalagrine gene, um, which phalagrins the protein that basically builds your skin barrier and maintains its integrity, when you have a mutation of this gene or it's impaired, then your skin barrier becomes compromised or defective.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: That allows irritants and allergens to penetrate your skin, and that leads to inflammation and flare-ups.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one gene, for example, that we definitely test for to give you probability.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to explain this in simple terms, you know, if you think of your skin as a wall, the phalagorin is like the mason that builds and maintains this wall.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically if the mason can't do a good job because of a mutation, the wall is weak.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And invaders basically penetrate your wall and cause trouble inside your body.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Same with your gut.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, very similar.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people with eczema have gut dysbiosis and a leaky gut.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for example, the skin sensitivity and inflammation, that's one section of our skin condition, skin decode test, so that people with eczema can find out, for example, how well their body manages building the skin barrier, their inflammation response.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, they can adjust lifestyle, they can adjust diet, they can adjust skin care, um, you know, take out, for example, things like perfumes or allergens.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: They can look at, you know, what they use, um, for example, to wash their clothes with, how often they wash their clothes, you know, cotton versus other types of materials for their clothing.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: So then they can start making real decisions because you may not manifest eczema, but you may have the genes for it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then if you get massively stressed or you get a really bad flu, you might end up with your first flare up.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can prevent that by doing other things right, or another example is vitamin D.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people with eczema are deficient in vitamin D3, then you can supplement and you can basically prevent or minimize those flare-ups.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you you brought up vitamins and that makes so much sense with eczema.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know we could do so much to understand it almost like preventative, right?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: This idea of like if you know that there's some sort of a, you know, I guess anomaly there, a variant there, you can then prepare accordingly as you're, you know, even if you're a child, you know, the parents can set you up to where you're now able to take care of what you need to take care of so you have good health.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so important, it's so critical.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm excited for this.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is really cool stuff.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so let's talk about plain old aging though, Barbara.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, where does this all play in?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, because everyone's obsessed with anti-aging.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanna, you know, I want to get your, you know, just the answer to that question.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know a lot of people must be wondering, you know, in the grand scope of things.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, I would say none of us wants to age.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: We all want timeless skin.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were back at the skin barrier that we talked about on the last podcast and skin inflammation, um, when it comes to basically our skin health and appearance.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we all know that the silent assassin is basically environmental factor.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So UV exposure, not wearing SPF when you were young, uh, living in a city where there's air pollution, um, you know, drinking too much, maybe smoking, not having the greatest diet, not sleeping enough, leading to basically this cascade of unfortunate biological events that basically are called inflammation and prematurely age your skin.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So skin aging isn't governed solely by time, but it is actually heavily influenced by these various external and internal factors.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can control wearing SPF, we can control where we live in the air purity, we can control our lifestyle, you know, including what we eat and whether we smoke or drink.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and basically we can control over that.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: What we don't know though is necessarily how our body reacts to all the free radicals from this oxidative stress and how that leads to inflammation.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is where our test has two sections.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one is how is your body able to manage this oxidative stress?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the second is what are my genes that are related to skin elasticity and to wrinkling development?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um there's also a section on sun sensitivity and how likely you are to develop things like hyperpigmentation or sunspots, which also contribute to unsightly aging.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what we figure is in this case for normal healthy skin, you know, with these kinds of knowing, you know, whether your uh body has the right enzymes and how effective they are at managing oxidative stress, that can again arm you with lifestyle, diet choices, skincare choices for prevention.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually ask you about, you know, um the vitamin portion of this.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you had mentioned the vitamin DNA tests um relating to skin conditions.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you tell us about how do vitamins really affect your skin and you know where this all plays in?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And some of that goes back to the aging question, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like what vitamins can I take to prevent myself from aging?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um a lot of information has been researched on vitamins, and a lot has been correlated to human health.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we focus primarily on vitamins A through E.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, why?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So vitamin A, your retinoids help clear acne, they help regulate skin cell turnover, they prevent pores from clogging.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So skin condition known as acne, vitamin A is important.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, vitamin B6 is important for skin growth protection, structure, and repair.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: That relates to, you know, general skin health, but also aging.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Vitamin B9, also known as folic acid, is also cell formation and function.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And their low levels can lead to inflammation or dry flaky skin, acne, wrinkles, etc.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it goes back to acne, goes back to eczema, and it's involved in collagen generation.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when used topically, it's actually been shown to improve firmness and sun-damaged skin.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we're back to that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: How do I prevent or how do I repair my skin from aging?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Vitamin B12 has a lot of functions in the body and plays an important role because, at low levels, um, like if you don't have enough of it, it can lead to eczema or it can lead to hyperpigmentation or vitliga, like those pale white patches, or swelling and redness at the corners of the mouth called angular stomatitis, um, or even changes in your hair.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very important vitamin for many skin conditions and just general skin health.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Vitamin C, we all know, helps retain the collagen your body produces.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's again an anti-aging, great antioxidant and protects your skin against the free radicals.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Vitamin D is really important for many different reasons, actually.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: It controls how often your body replaces old skin cells with new ones, so it goes back to aging, but also in diseases like eczema and psoriasis.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also part of the immune system and it helps manage inflammation.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's important for those skin conditions, because it tells your body to make natural antimicrobials so that your skin can heal better.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really important for skin conditions.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then vitamin E, again for skin conditions, help reinforce your cell walls, um, protecting against sun damage, but also reducing inflammation.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of these have a very important role, not just in skin health, but in skin maintenance.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let me just also say, you know, vitamins will certainly help your skin as an added benefit of a normally healthy lifestyle.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's important to know when you're having a flare-up of a skin condition, how you can prevent it in the future or heal it faster when it does happen.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And but we always recommend seeing a dermatologist to really understand how best to view kind of your vitamin-related genetic traits and how to treat your skin, because people have also been known to overdose on vitamins and that can lead to other issues like liver toxicity and uh kidney problems.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we want, you know, ultimately vitamins, you know, they're wonderful, but not to overdo it and usually to see guidance of a medical professional for the maximum effectiveness of that.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So in terms of the DNA test, like uh for the vitamins itself, can they tell you about like the severity then of your deficiency?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or like is there any like what where do they really play in in terms of managing this deficiency if you know that, you know, say vitamin D is deficient?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm guilty of that.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have that, you know, very low vitamin D levels, but like, you know, if I were to get this genetic testing, how would I then approach my physician to start managing it?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or we know that you know, you need to go out into the sun to have vitamin D, but we're not supposed to go out into the sun that we put on SPF, but does SPF block vitamin D production?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that becomes, you know, fun vicious circle.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, you know, when we have blemish-prone skin, um, there's more than just genetics, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's hormones, um, there's lifestyle, there's anxiety and stress and psychodermatology factors, but there's one factor that we, I think, can control the most, and that's nutrition.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the vitamins come in.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it goes back to eating diets that are rich in skin-supporting vitamins because our body's way better at absorbing those than a supplement.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is sometimes our genetics won't allow us to absorb or transport those vitamins.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we do need that assession, the that additional assistance from the supplement.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, this absorption and transport and activation also needs the participation of specific enzymes or proteins.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the synthesis, like the generation or existence of those in our bodies, is determined by our genetics.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so the dysfunction or absence of these can produce a disease that's in many cases clinically indistinguishable from one that's caused by dietary deficiency.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Though, so that's where it's actually important to know these vitamin genetics.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I can give you like two quick examples.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one is the RBP4 gene that stands for retinol binding protein four.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a carrier for basically vitamin A in the blood.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And variations in this gene have been linked to essentially vitamin A deficiency because you can't carry it around your body, which then can lead to skin disorders like acne, um, in severe cases, impaired vision, susceptibility to infections, et cetera.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a carrier.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a gene that accounts for the carrier for vitamin A, not for vitamin A absorption, right?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's the SLC23A1 uh solute carrier family for vitamin C.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's basically what moves and delivers vitamin C through your body.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you might be getting a ton of it through your diet, but it's not going anywhere.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your body's just excreting it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, gene variations can make these carrier proteins unable to distribute the vitamin C.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can have local antioxidant deficiencies or skin aging or wrinkling.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: So while the gene doesn't have a direct correlation to a lot of skin conditions, you know, there is actually interestingly, as since we were talking about the gut, links between Crohn's disease, acne, canker sores, blisters, and psoriasis with this gene.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, about 9.6% of patients with Crohn's disease were more frequently associated with psoriasis compared to 2% of normal people.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the skin DNA and the vitamin DNA can tell your dermatologist kind of that they maybe should evaluate you for for psoriasis if you develop Crohn's disease.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's all related.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's so I love that you brought that up because you know what?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times, you know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: We all we uh recently I've noticed, especially the last like five, 10 years, people are always complaining of, you know, well, I have this, you know, skin problem.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's been there my whole life, and it's you know, all this stuff, right?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: They have these uh these stories to tell.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then it makes you wonder like, you know, so much has changed in 10 years.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're the way we eat, the way we process that food, and then being able to differentiate between, did I get this from like a parent?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why why can't I metabolize things a certain way?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I get you know my vitamin D levels up or whatever it is that you're trying to work on?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: That can be so, I feel like relieving and kind of like you know, relieve a lot of anxiety.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I I I think And then the anxiety causes other things, right?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anxiety leads to like hormone imbalance and that can also trigger inflammation, and then you can flare-up because you're anxious, you know.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's huge.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's like where knowledge is power here, you know, where it's like if you know that you're genetically disposed to having, like you were mentioning, eczema, you know, or even just drier skin because of certain protein deficiencies, you know, you can figure that out and then approach your skin health, and not to mention the thousands of dollars you're probably gonna save, you know, from buying all the crazy skincare we buy, you know.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I I love this.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is so cool.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I agree, knowledge is power.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree with that.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is so, so next level.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so excited that you guys have really taken the lead here because we we've needed this for a long time, I think.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, to round off the interview, uh, Barbara, I want to ask you like, you know, what should people consider?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, prior to getting any kind of genetic test done, um, what are some things that you think um consumers should be mindful of?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I understand, you know, like a$275 price tag is up there, right?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, inexpensive.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we did choose to make that decision to have a more expensive test because we want at the end of the day, for the for, you know, if say you spend$99 to$125 for a plain genetic test, we really wanted to make the genetic test worth it.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we look at the pros and cons of genetic testing, you know, the pros are that you can get valuable insight whether you have a genetic propensity for developing or suffering from a particular condition, especially when you have that genetic counselor there helping you.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this can provide really valuable insight into treatments or managing your condition.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the test results can also help you alleviate uncertainty, right?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: You might think you have the risk of a certain condition, or you think you might be getting a certain kind of breakout, you know, in yourself or family member or child.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the test can give you that peace of mind that you just mentioned, right?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And lastly, I would say this information can make you more proactive in terms of, you know, what you do, your lifestyle, your diet, your exercise, how much you, you know, hydrate, you know, how much you exert, you know, and then help mitigate, you know, the particular condition, you know, for example, the type of cloth um clothing that you wear for eczema, or how much you moisturize, you know, or even psoriasis.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can start, you know, deciding, okay, I maybe you should see a dermatologist if the condition warrants it.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the cons obviously are that it's expensive.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that you know, it's not going to do the work for you in the sense that you still have it's an investment, though.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's an investment.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you don't know what's wrong with you, also, I was gonna say you had mentioned, you know, knowing what to skincare to buy, but like what ingredients you need, right?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like exactly if you know you're somebody who needs a richer moisturizing product, you should know that from the get-go before you spend like a thousand dollars on like 15 moisturizers that just don't do it for you.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: That this is well, the test is cheaper than a lot of the expensive moisturizers on the market.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's true.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's like$500 moisturizers out there.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think this is a huge investment in your in the sense of like the the value of it.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for your own overall health, you know, this is amazing.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So but I think this is where it's important to have that licensed medical professional or genetic counselor um to guide you with the result and to address any concerns about how you're going to manage the condition, because the last thing you want is to like self-diagnose and self-diagnose yourself inaccurately, right?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is no test is perfect.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you do have to consider that when you take a genetic test, that you may get a result that scares you or that you don't want to see.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that no test is absolutely perfect.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a lot of the genetic tests out there, you know, that are being sold to the public, um, I would say that are very challenging to determine their quality.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's again goes back to those CLIA certifications.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: So some providers of these direct-to-consumer genetic tests may have labs that are not CLIA certified.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so then it's very difficult to see if you're getting a correct result and if the result is valid.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you really need to find a report or, you know, have the company send you a sample report and make sure that it has that CLIA certification, either in the head or the footer, and was signed by the responsible quality manager or director of the lab, you know, but that it has that CLIA cert um for your state.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um when I would say then when providers of these direct-to-consumer genetic tests have easy to understand information, you know, regarding the scientific basis, then you can, then you have something useful and now you can start making more informed decisions.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I would always, it goes back to do your homework.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to actually one more question I do have because I know a lot of derms do listen in.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: If there is a practitioner out there that wants to, you know, um kind of bring this on board with their practice, right?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and encourage their patients, how can they work with Codex Labs?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there like a program you guys have right now or anything in the Absolutely?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a dermatology referral program.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: We actually, all of our medical advisory board dermatologists are now being educated about these tests so that then they can go out and educate people, um, for example, on the Learn Health and the Learn Skin platform.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we really want to get this test out there because it can also reduce uncertainty.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it can help support a faster diagnosis or a better path of treatment.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we absolutely encourage the medical community to contact us.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we have various, you know, collaborative plans, whether they're affiliate or referral programs.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's really easy.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's there, it's it's a it's a cheek swab, right?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a complicated test.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't have to have like a specific blood draw capability, or you know, you're not collecting um urine samples in your office.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: This can be sent to the person, to your patient in their home.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or I mean, these boxes don't go bad.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: So right, it's a cheek swab.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like if I, you know, if if you're anyone listening out there, if you're like a you know, some even an aesthetician or you have your own clinic, I mean, having this available is important, you know what I mean?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Accessibility to something like this could really be a game changer.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as an industry, you know, we need things that are going to clarify, right?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than like keep cluttering.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I love it.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just love that you guys did this, Barb.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is absolutely brilliant.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, for everyone listening, I know that a lot of stuff was covered here.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you guys have any questions at all, please reach out to us and um we can definitely send your questions along to Barb's team and codex's team and see if we can get some answers for you to clarify anything.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I really encourage everyone to check it out.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this sounds amazing.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like next level understanding your skin health, understanding your body, how is it all tying together?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's I just can't think of a better investment for your own overall health.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, huge, huge.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: And check out our Instagram, right?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're gonna now endeavor to educate everybody.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: We want to make everybody a genetics expert.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is your mini course on genomics.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should, and you know, I I'll link everything here, but I I definitely agree.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely check out the Instagram and any um, you know, educational resources.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: We will also send out a newsletter, um, you know, linking everything.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you're subscribed to our email list and you'll also get those as well.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: But Bob, this has been so wonderful.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing all the amazing information and congratulations on the launch of something so huge.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ecta, and it's always a pleasure.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, likewise.
• 52:32
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• 52:34
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• 52:39
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• 52:42
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• 53:13
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• 53:17
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• 53:27
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• 53:34
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• 53:39
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