Latest / The Science of Skin / Conversation with a Master Cosmetic Formulator: Rahul Mehta, PhD, SkinMedica

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Conversation with a Master Cosmetic Formulator: Rahul Mehta, PhD, SkinMedica · The Science of Skin

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to this episode of Skin Care Confidential, a podcast dedicated to giving you a 360-degree view of the skincare industry.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ted Lane.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I am a board-certified dermatologist.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am the host of today's episode, and I'm also a co-founder of the Science of Skin Care Summit, which is an educational conference, again, dedicated to skincare, occurring September 21st through the 23rd of 2023 in Austin, Texas.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: But enough about me.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have an amazing guest for our podcast, Dr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Rahul Meta, someone who I consider a friend, a colleague, and someone who I turn to when I just don't understand anything about skincare.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: He really sets me straight.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Rahul, thank you for for coming on and being our guest today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're welcome.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for this opportunity.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Dr.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Meta is the vice president of research and development at Allergan Aesthetics.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: He actually started at Skin Medica before it was acquired at Allergan, Allergan well over 18 years ago.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, his job duties include lead product development in licensing, due diligence, global regulatory, and global medical affairs functions for Skin Medica and the Diamond Globe brands of Allergan Aesthetics.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's leading the global expansion of Allergan Aesthetics Skin Care Portfolio.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he established a skin quality and aging research center to streamline discovery, development, and assessments of skin quality-related research.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: He is a busy guy.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So Rahul, please, how did it all get started for you?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it looks like you actually were in pharma before you got into skincare.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, Ted.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a pharmaceutical scientist by at HARD.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I got my PhD in biodegradable drug delivery systems, working on cancer chemotherapy, uh working with biopolymers like polylactic acid and nanoparticles and liposomes.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I continued my research in academia.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the faculty at the University of Kentucky, uh working on peptide and polymer and protein delivery, sustained release and things like that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I then switched to industry and spent another 10 years working on anti-cells oligonucleotides.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you know these are small modified DNA molecules that bind to messenger RNA and stop protein production.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the targets we were going after were really oncology and immunology indications.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the last projects I had in the company was looking at topical delivery of anti-cells oligonucleotides.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we are going after psoriasis using TNF Alpha and ICAM and VCAM and other other targets like that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my introduction to the dermatology space.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2005, I joined Skin Medica and really started to apply my pharmaceutical expertise to elevate the formulation design and the claim substantiation processes for skincare as you know, those are the key that that takes up a lot of resources, and that's where we need the most help to elevate really the skincare products to to the active activity that we really expect from them.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you joined Skin Medica, just to go back in time.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: You joined Skin Medica.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was Dr.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Fitzpatrick's company at that time, correct?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not only a skincare company, but also a a medderm company as well, multiple topical medical dermatology products, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and that that's how I got my foot into the door because I was part of the medical f medical derm uh unit at at Skin Medica and was very fortunate to work with Dr.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Fitzpatrick for the first seven or eight years, and and he basically guided me in terms of what type of products he wants for his patients.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: But then the skincare products were so interesting and I couldn't understand them really well because I was putting my pharmaceutical lens to these products and say, Why are they working?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: They are not supposed to work in the way the way they are formulated.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I started getting more and more interested into the skincare and and and trying to uh really get into why some of the products work as why some don't work and and got excited about the TNS that was that was part of the franchise at that time.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So so you actually came in while TNS was being developed or or post-development?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was already launched.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: The first product was launched, the TNS Recovery Complex, which was a growth factor product by itself, and then we developed the subsequent products after that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And since that time, obviously you've you've helped to launch multiple products on the Skin Medica portfolio, uh, including some most recently that I'm really excited about and we'll get to later.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: But but talk to us, talk to us about the the TNS advanced serum, just that that next generation of that TNS, that growth factor serum with peptides and antioxidants that's kind of the bedrock of the of the Skin Medica portfolio.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so just stepping back and just just a little bit on the TNS itself, what we what we used to call the growth factor product, what we now know is that it's not really a growth factor product.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: It it really is a whole fibroblast secretome.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And by secretome, we define everything that the fibroblast cells are capable of making when they're activated.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what TNS really is.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and when we launched it back when Dr.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fispatrick launched it, the the claim was it has seven different growth factors.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because that's all we could analyze for.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: What we now know is that it has literally thousands of different molecules like proteins, peptides, and and their different functions.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and also large number of exosoles.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what really differentiates that original TNS and this next generation TNS that that we launched, we call it MRCX, is how the secretome is derived.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So uh in in in this new product, we actually uh grow the fibroblast under hypoxic condition.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So under hypoxic condition and low gravity by suspending them.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and and the fibroblasts really start taking to t take up characteristics of uh not necessarily stem cell, but there are more stem cell-like properties in fibroblasts.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so the secretome of these modified fibroblasts now uh contains actives that are more there are more emphasis on inflammation, stemness, versus original TNS, which was more uh uh actually emphasis of the product was more on excessive matrix rebuilding.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in and these are all in vitro profile, of course, not really clinical profiles.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's so interesting.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's just go back and define some terms because not everybody listening understands what a secretome is.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So my understanding is a secretome is the gestalt that when you look at everything that is made by a fibroblast, which are those cells in the dermis that are responsible for collagen production, for example, and and most of the components of the extracellular matrix.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about the dermis, it has these fibroblasts that are kind of suspended in a gel or a liquid that is comprised of not only you know collagen, but hyaluronic acid and multiple other glycosaminoglycans, which are those chemicals that give the skin turger and and firmness.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and the glyc- the fibroblast cannot, the importance of the fibroblasts, first of all, for anti-aging, cannot be understated, right, Raul?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: That that that's right, yes.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and when we say secretome, it is everything the fibroblast is secreting out into this extracellular matrix.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and and this the secreted components have have their main function is to communicate with other cells.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Other fibroblasts communicate with carotenocytes, communicate with cells of the immune system, and specifically when skin is under stress or when repair is needed, fibroblasts communicate to these cells that we need to introduce whatever it takes to induce the repair and regeneration of the skin.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So secret room contains all the messages that the fibroblast is trying to send to the surrounding cells.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, see, this is so interesting because for so long people were looking at TNS serum and we knew that our patients were getting improvement with TNS serum, right?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: We saw the improvement, and we have so many patients who would come to us and say, I love this product, I use it twice a day.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: It absolutely keeps my my skin feeling and looking better, but we never really understood how it worked because we know that these growth factors, which was really the story for so many years, are just too big.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're just large molecules, and they're it's difficult in my understanding, and my very primitive understanding compared to you, Rahul, in terms of how they penetrate uh through the barrier.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so now, with this whole secretome idea, and you said the magic word of exosomes, um, perhaps now we're really understanding that this is more of an anti-inflammatory messaging compound than true delivery of growth factors.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, so yes, you're right.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, uh that that was one of the biggest questions I had when I when I joined Skin Medica and started looking at growth factors.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: My first question was how do these go through the skin?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, how do how are they even stable at room temperature?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and then if they're stable, how do they go through the skin?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: We never got an answer to how they grow through the skin, but we do know that they're stable.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: The way the way Dr.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Fitzpatrick and the formatters created the products, the growth factors in that, and all the proteins and peptides are stabilized in the in the product.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: But we always we could never answer the question of how what's going through the skin that that that's actually working.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I knew growth factors are too large to go through the skin.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's some mechanisms by which skin can actually sample large molecules, like like a typical allergic reaction, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: You get large protein on the surface, they transmit some response into the skin and you get the allergic reaction.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: But but those are really, really rare and and really small amount of things go through.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't really know what was working until a few years ago we started looking at, we heard about exosomes, we didn't know what they were 20 some years ago.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and we now believe that exosomes in TNS can actually penetrate the skin and provide the biological activity uh that that that that we see in all of our in vitro model and that could trust it to clear clinical activity.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's let's dive into exosomes for a second.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh exosomes are are really uh carrier molecules.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's talk.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: They really are are are liposomes in in the way I think of them, uh, and they can contain many different ingredients or or skincare benefit beneficial products inside of them.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: They they uh the problem is, as you and I have spoken about, how do you stabilize a liposome in uh in a skincare product?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and let's let's talk about that because from my understanding, that's really the secret sauce to TNS's efficacy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and so so so if if if you recall the TNS product is dual chamber, we have all the growth factors and exosome on one side and the rest of them on the other side.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way we could actually stabilize right now because we know that uh exosomes and and even the peptides and proteins, you cannot they cannot become in touch with surfactants or oils or everything that's typically present in a in a formula.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're similar to liposomes.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Liposomes break down as soon as you put them in an immersion or have a surfactant on oil with them.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exosomes are no different.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're they're lipid uh lipoprotein membranes that break down very easily.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we do know that the formula of TNS uh recovery complex with the high protein concentration and then the actual composition, uh the exosomes are stable for at least four years because we have isolated exosomes and they show biological activity.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a challenge when we extract them further, and if you want to put them in a product mixed with other things, that's the challenge that we're working on right now.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and there are ways to do that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it it's very hard to get something that is stable at room temperature because you can't really have a skincare product that you have to refrigerate.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work practically.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then you do want a two-year shelf life.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the questions we are answering right now for exosomes themselves.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: But as far as the product itself concerned, the exosomes in it are stable and they're being delivered right now.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, Rahul, as as we compare different different companies are are producing different exosome products, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are adipose stem cell uh derived exosomes, some of them are plant-based exosomes, some of them are platelet-derived exosomes.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: For Skin Medica, then, are we saying these are fibroblast-derived exosomes?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is correct, yes.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the the way uh the way exosomes work in terms of trans transferring message, fibroblast exosomes, their main function is to maintain skin health.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so the messages from fibroblasts that are in the exosomes, whether they're all the microRNAs that are in there or the DNA fractions or peptides, they're designed to maintain skin health and skin homeostasis.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I believe that fibroblast-based exosomes are the best for skin because that's what they normally do.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now, exosomes from other sources, platelets they are extremely important in wound healing because that's platelet's function.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So exosomes from platelets have a big role to play in early stages of wound healing that may translate to maybe some anti-inflammatory action uh or or or activities like that that are early part of the of the wound healing process.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh exosomes from from adipocytes, again, their main function is to maintain adipocyte health.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so they will be good at that.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are other exosome sources like the bone marrow exosomes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the bone marrow stem cell exosomes, their main function would be to help grow the blood cells.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I personally believe that for skin regeneration and and maintenance of healthy skin, you need exosomes from or whole whole cell secretone from fibroblasts, which is the their primary function in the skin.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess this really uh correlates with the development of the skin quality and aging research center, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as you are, and which I understand is just launching in the last year, and and really there's a a new person that's going to lead this uh along with you uh to streamline the discovery of these new ingredients like exosomes.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm sure given the resources that ABV brings to bear on Allergan's ability now and SkinMedica's ability to find new ingredients, now we really have the resources necessary to kind of propel Skin Medica to the forefront.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, uh when I see the activities we used to do 15 years ago or even 10 years ago, the resources we had and what we could do with that versus what we can do now, it really shows the power of pharmaceutical research engine behind behind Skin Medica.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Androgen aesthetics has a has a big discovery team and and and a big biology team that helps us.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But going beyond that to AbV ABV has thousands of people that we actually uh work very actively with.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: That Genomics Institute is helping us create uh kind of getting into a completely new era of drug discovery.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're along with drug discovery as we discover new targets, we are also going to apply them to skincare.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really the main function of the aging research center.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we can kind of start talking now about the even incorrect system with the lotus sprout extract, which I'm um really enamored with.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think you from my understanding, again, Rahul, correct me if I'm wrong, but but you really did take that drug discovery process and the uh the assets that are available to you to really find this new ingredient, which has it really shown to reduce pigmentation.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the first example where we actually took something that the allergan facial aesthetic discovery team uh was working on.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: They discovered a key molecule that had a significant effect on pigment, uh reducing pigment.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um the skin medica biology team and the skin medica formulation team working with the allergan discovery team and our large number of cosmetic ingredient industry partners, we identify a natural source for these active molecules.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what we discovered is that uh a lotus plant has these molecules and specifically in the sprouting stage of the seeds, has the highest level of these active molecules.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, working with these companies, we developed a process to extract what we call non-lotus sprout extract uh that contains the highest level of these two actives, which we'll be publishing soon.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and so we also then discovered working with uh with a very large academic institution that these molecules actually work by a pathway that was not used before in the in skin care, which is uh really enhancing melanosome autophagy.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and so the lotus sprout extract actually increases melanosome autophagy in keratinocytes as well as melanocytes.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happens?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: The melanosomes that are already migrated into keratinocytes that are in the in the uh sitting on top of the of the melanocyte layers, um, lotus sprout extract is able to activate keratinocytes to basically digest those those melanosomes and remove the melanin from them.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, so it it activates the keratinocytes or macrophages?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: It it actually activates keratinocytes.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So so so we are not removing melanocytes, we are activating the cells' internal processes of autophagocytosis.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So macrophages are not included here, they are not involved, but internal pathways of keratinocytes are actually increasing the autophagy of the melanosomes that are inside the keratinocytes.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they they would then be encased in essentially a liposome as well, then, and expelled from the cell.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Am I thinking about it right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think they get uh and encapsulated into lysosome and get digested.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're expelled out, they'll still be in the skin.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But but they're actually enzymatically degraded.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and we are actually continuing the research to understand that better as to how is that happening.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yet another pathway for brightening and lightening the skin, I think most recently we've thought about, you know, another company has come out with peptides and a peptide complex to help lighten the skin.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And before that, we were really focused on trenoxemic acid, which focused on the inflammatory pathway of melanosome production.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we yet again we're we are using the scientific discovery and and the drug discovery method to find another pathway that we can uh focus on for uh lightening of the skin, which is quite frankly, especially here in the south where I am, just the most important uh responsibility for skincare products.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And again, pigmentation is probably one of the most difficult conditions to treat because if you think about it, melanin is essential for life.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so cells would do anything to let you remove melanin.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to let you remove melanin that easily.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we need all the different approaches.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tranicamic acid works great.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of peptides from a lot of other companies that also work really well.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: What we need is to manage as many different pathways as possible so we can get a product that works fast and and is something that can be uh that can be used in all different skin types.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and if you think about the even incorrect system, which is a system of three different products, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the kind of spot correcting product, which has the highest concentration of that lotus sprout extract.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so this so it's a three-product system.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: The main serum contains the highest concentration of lotus sprout extract.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It also has what we call LTN complex.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So lotus sprout extracts, tryingxamic acid, uh, and nasinamide.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a product where again it comes to the resources that AB is able to provide us.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: We spent almost a year optimizing penetration of tryingixamic acid into the skin.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that went into this product.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So by combining these three, uh, we are we are able to achieve uh uh in fact the clinical studies we are doing retinal where we use the the pad for exfoliation uh and and early uh washing.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Which is, by the way, sorry to interrupt, but I think we're excited about that pad, which is an alpha hydroxy acid plus a retinol in this pad, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, the the pad contains lotus seed extract uh as well as tonicamic acid and and glycolic acid.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: The spot treatment contains retinol and glycolic acid as well as the three LTN complex.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when we use all three together, we are seeing results amazingly fast.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Within a few weeks, we start seeing changes in skin, which uh I wouldn't have believed if I didn't see it in the number of patients that we have used it on.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm honestly the pads with the the combination of products, uh, which I think is quite unique.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have not seen a pad uh skincare product with that that combination.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: In my practice, we're all kind of excited about it for our acne patients as well.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can imagine the glycolic acid will be exfoliation, but then the the post-acne blemish marks will be uh lightened.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about that with that lotus sprout extract.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you'll see you'll see that product just as a standalone really explode as people realize the benefits for for going beyond just you know your standard PIH or hyperpigmentation or melasma, it's going to be used for other stuff.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and then then we'll we'll uh uh I mean uh our philosophy is that we continue doing studies.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So so so we will continue studying this product in in other indications like acne and and everything with uh once now that the product is launched, we'll continue publications on these other indications with the with the product.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But there are other products that have the lotus extract, right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: This this is not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Your your your grandma's lotus extract though.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, when we um uh that was part of our uh kind of due diligence, we we looked at all the different lotus seed extracts and lotus plant extracts that are out there commercially available and analyzed them for these two actives that we are looking for.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, uh none of the other extracts actually contain these actives.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way the processes are developed, they are removed during early stages of of purification.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had to develop process specifically to retain those two actives.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and so the other products in the market do not contain the actives that we have in the lotus cloud extract.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, proprietary to to to Allergan's product right there.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now that this product obviously is is going to be further studied in the Skin Quality and Aging Research Center.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But as you look, I'm sure there's other kind of broad topics that are really interesting to you since you founded this this center.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at the next few years, what do you think will come out of this skin quality uh and aging research center?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so I think um this is a long-term project, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So so so we we are focusing on hallmarks of aging.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at mitochondrial health, we are looking at senescence, telomeres, all those at that at the basic cellular level.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm hoping that in eight to ten years we would have new targets.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that a completely new target that that we can't imagine right now that can help us with uh with with skin aging and and the skin quality changes.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing we want to focus on during this time frame is also diversity biology.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we know different skin has different biology.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: We are not taking advantage of that when we create products.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll we'll focus on that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit shorter term, three to five years, we'll probably see more uh personalization.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it it started, but there's still a lot to learn from from the AI perspective when it comes to personalization.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: We are just not there yet, but personalization based on genetic profile, epigenetic profile, microbial assessments, uh uh some of these things you start seeing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's some companies that are doing good work in the in this area, and you start seeing products, uh personalization.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but really what we need is is uh is a huge biobank type uh type repository where we have half a million people where we know their genetics, we know their epigenetic profile, we can follow them longitudinally, and then we know their skincare needs and then skincare conditions.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we are that's one of our other initiatives, the Skin Quality and Aging Research Center, is to identify a biobank or create a biobank with app-based resources that can help us identify different groups of people and what their skin skin needs are, look at their genetic and epigenetic markers, and see if they can we can find new targets that we can engage in discovery.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine that, right?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you could tap into ancestry.com or one of these other large you know, DNA biobanks and really you know use your AI learning neural networks to come up with some really interesting solutions.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we will get that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: These are long-term projects, and and so hopefully before I retire we'll see something like that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you need any DNA, I'll donate mine, Rahul.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Be careful what you look for.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, Rahul, thank you so much for for this wonderful.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I learned a ton.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I always learn a ton talking with you, and I so appreciate your time.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are so excited about the the new direction, the new developments coming out of Skin Medica, and I think the future is incredibly bright.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, not to mention, we haven't even had time to really talk about the Diamond Glow, which is that the device to, you know, that has serums that can you know increase penetrations of active serums, which will further development will become will be supporting that device, and I'm sure we'll see some more data coming out from there as well, knowing your team.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Data always being produced.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh thanks everybody for listening to this episode of Skincare Confidential.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to like, don't forget to subscribe, don't forget to refer us to your friends.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you have any questions about skincare, if you have questions about skincare products or you'd like to learn more about ingredients, shoot us an email at info at scienceofskincare summit dot com.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you never know, maybe your question will be answered at the next podcast episode.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is Dr.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ted Lane, and with me is Dr.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Rahul Meta from Skin Medica signing off.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.