Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 950: Getting Paid to Hunt Deer on an Island

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Ep. 950: Getting Paid to Hunt Deer on an Island · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show, everybody. This week, we've got
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: bubbly Doug Duren on a Wisconsin David versus Goliath power
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: line story. We've got Nantucket will seriously pay you to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: hunt deer.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Seriously.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We got the Trump administration is taking steps to increase access.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So that's good. We got Spencer digs in.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You already got it. Spencer digs in.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: On ginseng poachers.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Good one, Steve.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: An interesting legal argument about elk tags has emerged in
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: New Mexico. Randall and I signed our first doctor's note
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: getting a kid out of school and more. Okay, I'm
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: going to skip our news because what I was going
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to talk about in our news. No, I'm just going
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to talk about it right now. Phil, play the thing.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: This is a dumb one. This is a dumb one,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: but hear me out. The reason it's our news is
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: because the other day I was driving down the road
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: with my friend Jeremy Romero. And he brought up an
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: issue that he found a solution toward. This is an
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: issue that's always chapped my buns. And he found a
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: solution for it. But I've got to give a little background.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: First off, Jeremy's from New Mexico. In New Mexico, they
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: do not do a thing called bonus points. So just
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: to step this back for a minute, if you imagine...
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You know, most of the country, like if you want
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to go deer hunting, you go to the gas station
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: or the sporting goods store and you like buy a
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: deer tag. There's no limit on how many deer tags
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: are available. Anybody that wants one can get one. But
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: when you get into certain things where you have more
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: certain areas and certain wildlife species where you have more
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: demand than supply, you need to create a system by
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: which you award hunts, right? Like if everyone that wants
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to go hunt a bighorn in Montana went and shot
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a bighorn, They'd all be gone and we'd be in
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the hole a million bighorns. You got to have a
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: system by which you hand these opportunities out. There's these
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: things called tag draws. Let's say you live in... I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: You live in.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Nevada? Wyoming. Arizona.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Wyoming.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: You live in Wyoming. You want to hunt in Wyoming. Alaska?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: You want to hunt in Wyoming and in Wyoming they say, hey,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: there's 100 elk tags for this mountain range. and a
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: couple thousand guys put in for them. So most of
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: those people, let's just keep the numbers simple. There's a
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: single tag available for a mountain range in Wyoming, one tag.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: 100 guys want it. 99 of those guys, they come
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: up empty-handed. So what the state does to reward them,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: at least for their efforts, is they give them a
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: thing called a bonus point. So then the next year,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: keeping it as simple as possible. The next year, those
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: previous 99 guys, now their name is in the hat
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: two times, right? This is how this whole preference bonus
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: point thing generally works. What can happen to a fellow
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: is you can play the game for so long. I've
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: played this game for a very, very long time that
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you wind up with enormous amounts of bonus points. So
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you get where you have like, I have some, for
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: some draws, I have 20 bonus points. And so you
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: want to get the best, most premium hunt you can
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: get because you've got so much invested in all these
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: damn points. And now and then it'll happen that you
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: realize you could go hunt elk in some other mountain range.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: And if you have five points, you're gonna draw it.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It makes sense, you guys already know all this. But
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, it only takes five bonus points to
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: win that out permit. And then you wind up being like, well,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that because I have 20
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: bonus points. I'd be like, in your mind, psychologically, you're thinking,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I'd be wasting.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: All this.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: So you want to keep your 15.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And so you don't do shit. You don't do anything
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: because you'd look at it like money.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Some cost fallacy.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: But here's Romero's, the Romero proposal. He thinks states... If
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you work at a state wildlife agency, hear me out.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: He thinks it should be... Your bonus points should be
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: like poker chips. When you're playing poker, you don't always
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: take all your chips and slide them out.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: It seems to me like this... I'm not done laying
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: the proposal out. I think I know where it's going.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: We'll just have a little patience. Instead of you needing
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to be, it's binary. It's like all your chips are
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: in or none of your chips are in. He feels
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you should be able to have 20 bonus points. He
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: feels you should be able to slide five out and
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: make a bet.
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: This seems like it'd be a very popular idea among
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: people with 20 bonus points.
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm talking about this.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: More and more premium opportunities go to fewer and fewer people.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what would this solve for?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: It would solve for a problem I'm having right now. Where?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I'm eyeballing where I have a thing. It actually is Wyoming.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I have a giant pile of poker chips. But there's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a thing I want to go do that I would
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: be effectively for once i have to slide all my
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: poker chips in on a small bet and and like
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: i'm so picture that the state is my opponent i'm
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: sliding 20 out and he's like i'll put out five
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Do you follow me?
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: It's called the Romero poll.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: So Jeremy came up with this just for you. And
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: this is how you.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: Solve point creep.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: He plays the game. He plays the game. And he's like,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: this is what's chapping my buns. Like mine, our buns
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: are chapped by the same thing. We want to be
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: able to play a couple chips.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: Would it change your opinion on this if I told
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: you that this would make things exponentially worse for your kids?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: No.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure that it would.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: I think we need a statistician in here to tell
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: us if it actually would make it harder.
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: It would definitely. I mean, I shouldn't say exponentially.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, because I'd draw that tag, and I'm still sitting
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: on 15 points. Yeah, so he'd draw four premium tags
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: in the next four years. If I like that hunt
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the next year, five more chips.
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: Four points are never going to get, you know, like.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: If you look, I think you, the question could be
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: answered by how many points are people dying with? Because
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: that'd be the only way to like, like that would
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: be the delta.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where'd all those points go when you die?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: We need a statistician to write in.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: In a little grave?
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: I don't think we need a statistician to write info.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to die with so many points. They're going
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to have to put a grave next to my grave
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: to hold all my points. It's like, I'm going to
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: have a headstone, and next to it is going to
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: be his points.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: That could be etched into your kids.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: And family and stuff.
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: I sort of see that as.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: How many points you died with.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Instead of what year you died and were born and
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: all that, it'll just be the points you've accumulated that
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: you took to the grave.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: We'll get Brianna on that.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: And to be clear, while 20 points is a lot,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of Steves and Jermys out there who
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: have 20 points to use somewhere.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: And we want to find a way to hoard even more. Yeah.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: We want to have our cake, and then we want
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to eat it too.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: And a little bit of your cake.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind. Matter of fact, I'm just going to
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: have some of your cake, I think.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: That's clever.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: The Romero proposal. I wish you guys hadn't shot it down,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: because I feel like I had a lot of state
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: directors excited about implementing this, and then you guys started
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: shooting holes in it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: I had a, I don't know if it's quite at
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: proposal stage yet, but I had an idea to help,
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: you know how we're discussing what the proper age is
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: for youth hunting, or like to be a mentored hunter?
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Because I was noticing that with my kids... the weight
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: of the gun gets very heavy after a while. And
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: I was thinking, well, I wonder if that could be
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: a solid threshold because we also have this three-year-old that
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: supposedly wielded a 12-gauge and thought it was shooting at
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: a turkey, right? Well, the person should be able to
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: display the ability to carry and handle said weapon.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Man yanni's gonna have the ada yeah compliance people after
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: him bad yeah i can't even imagine the mean things
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: he's gonna be hearing about himself.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Okay well just an idea it was not yet at
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: the proposal stage to be clear.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah just an idea someone you know writing into their
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: little boys got like only one arm something they're gonna
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: be mad at yanni he needs a pistol brace well.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: There's there's always exceptions you know You get a special
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: permit for that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. So, yeah, you got to be like, hey,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: when you can carry that thing three miles up and down,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: come talk to me about hunting. Your news, Phil.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Your news brought to you by Banish Suppressors. Holding my
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: hot little hand. And we just, I didn't want to
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: talk about this, but I nixed it. We just did
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the youth hunt.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: A lot of quiet rifle.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Fire in that youth camp.
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think I heard heard another shot.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: In the old days you'd be like oh there's yanni
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: ripping or yanni's kids are ripping but now you don't
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: know nothing you gotta wait till you get back to
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: camp because everybody shoots suppressed yeah everybody comes.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: Back no when you hear gunshots it's usually a volley
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: and i think it's usually upland bird hunters.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Um Here's what we're going to do. We got to,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: so one day it occurred to us. No, a guy
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: wrote in, I think.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Saying, well, you guys are doctors. Randall's a doctor. I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: have an honorary doctorate. Which is doctor.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Which, you know, let's just cut the, just shorten that up.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: You know, abbreviate that to doctor. A guy wrote in,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: he's wondering if we could write him a doctor's note.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Episode 930, he wrote in. Uh, Steve said he'd
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: happily give him a doctor's note or anyone else who
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: needs time off for school or work. So a bunch
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: of folks wrote in. Um, I was gone for a while,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: so we missed a bunch. I'm sorry for that. Hopefully
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: you worked out with your boss.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Nate had a baby.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: His wife had a baby. Yeah. Um, here's one from
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Jacob Flora.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Steven Randall, you want to read his situation? Well, I'll
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: read it and then you diagnose.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I like how he spelled my name off right
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: off the bat.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: He spelled a lot of things. Interestingly, he said he
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: spells everything wrong. Dear Mr. Rennell. On the most recent
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: episode of the news show, you guys were talking about
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: being open to writing doctor's notes for absences from school. Well,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: my school only allows five absences a year without a
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: doctor's note. This season, I'm supposed to go on a
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: black bear hunt in West Virginia, but I would still
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: like to hunt the Ohio rut. I was wondering if
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: you and Dr. Randall would be willing to sign one
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: It's a mistake many have made.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: The dates would be November 2nd to 5th. Thanks.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: No problem. So I'm sitting here on our new form.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Steve Rinella, honorary D, and Randall Williams, PhD, meat eater,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: occupational health. To whom it may concern, this letter is
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: to certify that. What's this kid's name?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Spell it wrong.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Jacob Flora.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to do him dirty just back again. Oh,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: this is the pen you gave me?
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, no.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's got a cap on it.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: It isn't like a pen.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: It's new. That's brand fresh new pen. You know how
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: they do that?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: No, I've never seen that before.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: When they're signing something fancy.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: His nose is going to look like shit.
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: According to AI, simply lying about being a doctor in
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: casual everyday conversation is not a crime. However, the moment
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: an impersonation crosses into advertising services diagnosing illnesses.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: It's very clear on this form.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: This letter is to certify that Jacob Flora was obsessed
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: by our offices on... What's today's date?
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: 21st of October.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: 10, 21, 26. Diagnosis. Cervid fixation syndrome.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Acute.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Barometric sensitivity pre-funnel.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Are you checking these or are you just reading them off?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just trying to think. Photo period related loss
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: of indoor tolerance.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: What did that last one mean?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Barometric. The barometers.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Just good weather?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: He knows there's good fishing weather coming up. Okay. Cold
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: water onset fever. Dietary wild protein deficiency. Unsuccessful prior season unresolved.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Pre-seasonal hyperarousal. Seasonal migratory restlessness. Salmonid emergence response. Adverse weather
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: waterfowl dependency. Fluorescent light intolerance occupational. Under harvest chronic. Stage three. Oh,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that's tough. What would this guy?
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I think he's got cervid fixation.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Pre-seasonal hyper arousal.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: Can we fill in some sort of split personality thing?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he's got a couple.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: There's no other on here.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: He could certainly have multiple diagnoses.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: But I think pre-seasonal, because this is all coming up,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: pre-seasonal hyper-arousal.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Clearly.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Well, photoperiod-related loss of indoor tolerance certainly.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: He's got some of that. I'm going to put him
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: in there, and he's got a little trace of that
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: pre-seasonal hyper-arousal. You good with that? That gives him two things. Yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I concur.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: I like his dates. He needs to be excused from school.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: I like his dates that he's picking.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: He needs to be excused from school for the period of.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Second to the fifth.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: November 2 to 5.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: And, man, now you can see the long-range forecast. It
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: looks like November 2 through 5 in the Midwest is
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: going to be pretty good.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: This guy right here, honorary doctorate of forestry and conservation.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I'll sign that. And then a Randall doctorate of history.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to be having any problems
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: down there at the schoolhouse. No.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: You should also tell your school.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Listen, man, I'll tell you. Listen to me, Jacob. Whatever
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: class is spelling, do they still have... If they got
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: spelling class, you might want to visit them on lunch
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: break a couple times.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: I would tell your school that this seems like an
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: unusually conservative absence policy. And had we had such a
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: policy in my... school growing up, I never would have graduated.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: That's a strict school, man. You'd think a school that strict,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that kid would be spelling like a madman, don't you?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, he does spell it. He would be spelling
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: like a... You know what I'm trying to do. Oh,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: check this out. Let's hit the news, Phil.
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: Oh, yeah.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: There you go. So you know how we have Meat
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Eaters Land Access Initiative? Well, Trump stole that idea.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Son of a gun.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Some people are mad about Iran. Some people are mad
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: about diesel prices. Some people are mad about Kimberly Guilfoyle.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Some people are mad about peddling influence. I'm mad that
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: he stole our LAI idea. In all seriousness, we recently
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: covered Trump's executive orders on hunting and fishing. And here
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is where one of those, this is an interesting email
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: floating around, where one of those is where the rubber,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: you know, the old term, where the rubber has met
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the road. In that analogy, the rubber would be Scrap
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that analogy. Okay. Here's a first little emergence of public
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: emergence of those executive orders coming into play. And check
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: this out. So this is an email floating around. Someone
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: forwarded it to me. The email reads, In September, President
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Trump signed Executive Order 14429, titled, Reinvigorating America's Hunting Heritage.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: directing federal land management agencies to, quote, improve public access
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to difficult-to-access federal lands and waters by prioritizing practical access opportunities. So,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the letter goes on to explain. I'm jumping between paraphrasing
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and reading. In line with this, the Bureau of Land
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Management is currently seeking land and water conservation fund acquisition projects.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: including easements that open up Dingle Act-nominated lands and other
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: landlocked public parcels to more hunting and fishing opportunities. I'm
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: going to step away from the reading and just explain
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: this from this point forward. This letter is going out
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to folks like us, folks like you, seeking out Parcels
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: that you're aware of, landlocked parcels or difficult to access
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: parcels you're aware of, where you might have identified, and
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: they point out this has to be the case, where
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: you may have identified a willing seller. So let's say
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: there's a lake, there's no public access on the lake, right?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Or let's say there's a chunk of state land, there's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: no way to get on it without trespassing. It's asking people,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: if you know a willing seller, a property owner, who
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: might be interested in an easement, or who might be
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: interested in an outside sale, they are actively looking for
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: those opportunities to take land and water access fund money,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: which comes from offshore oil leases, to take that money
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and secure those parcels to open up access. We've solicited these,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: when I joked about them stealing our idea, we've solicited
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: these We've looked for these tips before. We're not the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: only ones. Us, other organizations, have looked for tips like
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: this before. Like, hey, if you ever find some little
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: 40-acre chunk or a 10-acre chunk or a 5-acre chunk,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: that if it was turned into an access point, an easement,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: it would get you onto a lake. It would get
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: you onto a river. It would get you onto public land.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Let us know because we raise funds and have funds
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that could help purchase those parcels. But here, the administration,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: through the BLM, is actively seeking out these chunks of land.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: So if you have one of these spots... What's new
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: about this? That they're actively soliciting it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: But the Dingell Act is 2019.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I'm aware.
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: And that's part of the Dingell Act.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: It's the act of solicitation.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: But the executive order points out to prioritize it. And
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: upon that executive order, here is emails going out.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Actively hunting for such opportunities. Part of the thing we
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: brought up when the, part of the thing we brought
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: up when the executive orders came out is the, a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: lot of the stuff sounds great but what do you
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: do right you know with language like prioritize right or
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: you know consider prioritize so one might ask well what
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: does all that really mean in the end to prioritize
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: or consider so it's an ongoing thing but it's just
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I found it interesting and that there's active solicitation to
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the public trying to hunt down opportunities. These kind of
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: things have always happened. It's not like there's this new mechanism,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: but it's saying we have direction to get serious about this.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Do you have potential opportunities in mind? But in keeping,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like all through that executive order was a lot of
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: stuff like no big government, no big government. So it's
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: funny is in this, there's this flyer. In this flyer,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: it says, if they are not a willing seller, it
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: basically says, if the person you're looking at is not
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: a willing seller, stop now, leave them alone. It's like
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: in all caps.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: It's like a.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Trump true social post where he uses all caps. It says,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: find a landowner, step two. Find a landowner that is
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: willing to sell BLM, Bureau of Land Management, legal rights
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: for public access. This is direction to the public. If
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the landowner is not willing to sell land and or
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: water or interest therein, then all uppercase stop. The BLM
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: cannot proceed without a willing seller.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: It makes it look like an acronym because every other
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: all caps in this is BLM.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: It's an acronym. L-W-C-F. S-T-O-P.
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: No.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Steve tops out.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Besant.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Pipe.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I'll call the merch.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I don't do that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Merch people now.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So there it is. Dig in, man. Here's your, you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: here's your call to action. Find those parcels. You don't
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: even need to tell us about them. Tell damn government
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Are other agencies besides BLM in on this?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just the only one I've
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: seen where it's like floating around, where they're like taking
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: an active step to seek this out and also to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: educate people about this being a thing.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: We want to throw out the contact that they have
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: on here?
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because maybe you own the spot.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe you own a spot that you're like. And you're
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: willing to sell. And you're willing to sell. Because if
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you're not, listen, I'm not here to pressure you. I
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: know when to stop.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: It's also not, it's not just sales.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Who do they reach out to?
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: It's access, not to like oversimplify it, but like access easements.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Robert Wandel, Wandel, R Wandel at BLM.gov.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: He's the public land access program manager and LWCF lead.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: R W A N D E L at BLM.gov. Over
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to you, Spencer.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: The National Park Service announced a few weeks ago that
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: rangers in Great Smoky Mountains National Park confiscated 700 ginseng
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: roots from two poachers. We've got a picture there of
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: the stack of roots that they took. They piled them
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: up like how you'd see some officers show you the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: incredible drug busts that they had, where it's just like
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: an overwhelming mountain of roots.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: For you people that aren't watching and are only listening,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: If this wasn't, this looks remarkably similar to the crown
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: of thorns.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: What's that creature in Harry Potter?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Sorry?
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: Mandrake?
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: Yep, that's what I was thinking. Thanks, Bill.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: The roots of ginseng, which are sometimes referred to as
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: green gold, currently sells for about $ 800 per pound, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: it takes about 200 roots to make a pound. So
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: these poachers had roughly $ 3, 000 worth of ginseng Most of
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: it was likely headed overseas. Officials estimate that 85% of
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: North America's ginseng harvest goes to Asian markets. China is
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: specifically the world's leading consumer of the plant. They use
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: it in teas, soups, alcohol, cosmetics, supplements, and more. The
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: list of supposed benefits include increased energy, immunity support, heating
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and cooling effects, sharpened focus, lowered blood sugar, reduced inflammation, and...
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to solve erectile dysfunction. Here is a picture
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: of one of these pills.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, the man root. Ginseng Power X.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: This is the ginseng male enhancement pill that the FDA
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: put out a PSA for in 2016, advising Americans, do
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: not buy this. It's a giant yellow pill that the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: label says is, quote, for your ultimate sexual pleasure, powerful libido,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: natural vigor, and effective enhancement. And then here's the really
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: alarming one. Lasting five days, it says.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Have you ever tried it?
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Has anybody here tried it?
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I've not tried it. But in high school, you know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: we'd buy horny goat weed from the gas station bathroom
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: that they would sell in the thing there. It didn't
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: seem to have any effect on, you know, like a
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: thriving 17-year-old.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing I don't understand about this.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Do you want to keep going?
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you my questions?
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it. I got a lot more, but
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: we can pause.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Let me write them. Okay, let me just wedge one
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: in here. Yeah, please. Why would someone want to want
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: something more than they do? If someone was selling a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: pill that says, this pill will make you want a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: nicer car. You'd be like, I'm not going to take
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that pill. Like, I don't want to want a nicer car.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's like.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Like, why would you want to want something more?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's like, that's an enjoyable thing. So like, this
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: pill will make you want to cook really good meals.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I think I'd have that pill.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, that's interesting. Because if it was a pill,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: this pill will make you want to cook. You'd have
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: to be like, do I wish I wanted to cook more?
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: This will make you go to the gym and run.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: That's what this pill will do. I think it's, I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: imagine it's like that.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Like pre-workout.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Well, no, no. You're not, I can't explain it.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: So this is the ginseng male enhancement pill. We're looking
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: at a picture of it right now.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: An FDA lab analysis. Do you understand what I'm saying, Randall?
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: I understand what you're saying.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: You're, you're, It's a pretty strong market, though.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: It is, but I don't understand why... I'll say it
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: one more time, the same way I said it before.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I don't understand wanting to want something more.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Where are you getting that from that label?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: He's saying you don't want to have sex. Why would
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: you take a pill that makes you want to have sex?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: It's like to have a powerful....
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: Maybe it's causing an issue in your personal life.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe your wife wants to buy a new car.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Because I just.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: Can't picture your wife is going to leave you if
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: you don't buy a new car.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I wish I chased my wife around the house even more.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: Your wife is going to have someone else buy a
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: new car for her.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your current car just ain't cutting it.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: You know what I wish?
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Anyways, now the FDA.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: They did a lab analysis on this pill and they
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: said structurally very similar to Viagra So that's like a
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: minor endorsement But it also contained a pile of undeclared
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: ingredients that can lower blood pressure to dangerous levels. So
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: don't don't eat that pill Insane power acts now this
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: relationship between North American ginseng pickers and Asian consumers is
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: an old one frontiersmen such as Daniel Boone and Davy
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Crockett both supplemented their income with ginseng harvest and with
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: their route boarding ships that were bound for China. One
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Daniel Boone story tells of the time that he was
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: headed up the Ohio River with 12 large barrels of ginseng.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: It said that he hired Sangers, which are ginseng diggers,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: to gather a large supply for him, which he then
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: planned to sell to merchant ships in Philadelphia. But disaster
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: struck near Point Pleasant, West Virginia, when his boat capsized.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Boone did manage to recover most of his roots, but
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: they were no longer dry. And because of the water damage,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: he only received about half of the market value for them.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: The location for where that happened is somewhat disputed, but
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: some say it was on, it.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Was that point.
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: The Mothman might've had something to do with it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Steve has a question he wrote down.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Do you want to?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: You wanna ask it?
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: This is for later.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I don't wanna derail you.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Ginseng is of course native to North America with its
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: historic range being basically everything east of the Mississippi River.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Where it really thrives is in the Ozarks and Appalachian regions.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Those dense forests have the perfect ginseng growing conditions with
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: mild temps and above average rainfall. Now, the reason that
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: it's so valuable is because of its scarcity. And it's
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: so scarce because it takes about 10 years for a
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: ginseng plant to reach maturity. and they can live to
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: be 75 years old. Their greatest threats are poachers, habitat loss,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: invasive species, climate change, and get this one, white-tailed deer.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Ginseng leaves are a preferred food source among white-tails, and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: because deer populations in the east are about twice the
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: size they were pre-European contact, white-tails require more food than ever,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: so they get some of the blame for disappearing ginseng populations.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Now back to our Great Smoky Mountains poachers. This sort
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: of headline is surprisingly common there, and it's not just
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: a matter of the National Park Service being overly protective.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Just in the state of North Carolina, this year alone,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: officers have charged 71 people for illegal ginseng harvest, leading
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to more than 6,400 plant seizures. Residents are allowed to
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: pick it, but just like game and fish, it is
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: heavily regulated. You can only harvest ginseng from September 1
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: to December 31. making their ginseng season shorter than their
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: deer season. As for those- Is there a daily bag limit?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I didn't see one on that. Their rules, it's basically like,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: you can only pick between here and here. You have
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: to have landowner written permission. And then it seems like
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: everything else is a suggestion. It's like, don't take it
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: from plants that are immature. Don't take it from this
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: kind of landscape. So I didn't see anything about a
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: daily limit. I'm getting to the end here. As for
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: those confiscated roots, rangers will attempt to replant them It's
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: estimated that about one third of them will survive. No
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: news yet on what specific charges or penalties the Great
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Smoky Mountain ginseng poachers will face. What do you got, Steve?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Who exactly are they selling these to? Did they release that?
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: No, they haven't even said the names of these folks.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: This news out of the Great Smoky Mountains was from
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: September 30th. They haven't even said what charges they'll face yet.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So it's not clear to me what the market is
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: to get it from Some, you know, blue jean shorts
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: wearing fella in Great Smoky Mountains to the Chinese market.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I have an idea. First, I want to clarify.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: This is embarrassing to say. I have never looked down
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: on the ground in all my life and said, oh,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: there's a ginseng plant.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: We lived in the wrong areas.
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I've hung out all over. I've never been
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: with a buddy of mine like a Kevin Murphy type
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: who damn sure knows ginseng.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: He's never said, oh, hey, look.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: So on my life's to-do list, I'm like a travel
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: for this.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I would like someone to someday go, hey, that's a
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: ginseng plant.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I'm with you.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: It's a real blind spot for me. That might point
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: to his rarity.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Now, if you, like in trapper magazines. Okay. When you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: get to the back of a Trapper magazine, there's always
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of ads. Often, you will see ginseng buyers.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: But what I'm guessing is.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I think you answered your question.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: These poachers... Well, I'm saying it's probably that... It's probably
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: very seamless. It's like you collect it in a legal spot.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: But it's probably very simple. Once you leave.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And you're on the road, I wonder if you're just fine. Yeah, possessions.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Because you'd be like, you know, it's not that you
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: can't have it, you can't have it from there. So
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: when you go sell it, you just like, you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: if you're selling elk sheds, you're not going to say
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: to the buyer like, oh, hey, and by the way,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I stole those off some guy's plates. You're just gonna
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: sell them like you sell everything.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And while it's heavily regulated to gather them from the wild,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you can legally grow these things and sell them on
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: your own. And there is like a whole industry around that,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: but the value is so much less. I think it's
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: like $ 30 a pound compared to $ 800 a pound for
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the roots. So just the market in general is not interesting.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: It makes you less lustful.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It must.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: If you wish you wanted something that you don't want,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: but you just wish you wanted a teensy bit more,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: you might consider domestic ginseng. If you just wish you
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: wanted a little teeny bit more. Here's my question for you.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: This is an interview question. I'm interviewing you. I love
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: it that you do. Why do you like poaching stories?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: This one was given to me.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: But you like a poaching story.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Well, this one hits a lot of... This one checks
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of boxes. I think the poachers are interesting.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Just generally, you like poachers. I'm interested in them. Foraging.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I like foraging. I like national parks. So that's like
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: three things that I'm like, hmm.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Spencer story.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: History?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: You were doing a poaching story the other day that
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: did not involve a national park.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: No, but endangered species. I really like endangered species. I
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: share any sensibilities it talks about. like the protection or the,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the not protection in the case of poachers of endangered species.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Do you ever think in the back of your head,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you're not like thinking in the back of your head, like, man,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I wish I had, speaking of wishing you had things
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: you don't, that you're like, I wish I had the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: gumption to go be a poacher.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: No, I'm too nervous for it. I get, I get,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just too nervous to, to be that guy.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: You like everything above, you like everything on the up
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and up.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Oh man.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: That was me too.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: Oh, go ahead.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, go ahead.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, I jumped a couple fences
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: back in my day following friends, and boy, I couldn't
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: handle it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: It just takes all the fun out of it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: You still lose your sleep over it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: No. I sleep great now.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I find the older you get, the less you like
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder. Considering what he just said and
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: what I said, we have a guest coming up. You
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: should see if he wants to come and hang out.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: That sounds good.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: We should go ginseng foraging, too. I've never seen this stuff.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I'd like to do it, and I'd like to eat some.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: We have another guest, Tiger Lady. That'd be another good one.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: You might like that, too.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Once it gets outside in North America.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's true.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: The other one's very North America.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: You'll like it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Count me in.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I need a little bit of that. Cook it up.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Real blind spot for me.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Have you ever laid eyes on a plant?
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: No. It's embarrassing. No.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: No, you look at the range map and it's just like,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Not our zone. Like I said, yeah.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Everything east.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Not our zone. Not in Florida, I noticed.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: That's my zone. Over to you, Yanni. Colorado.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: In Colorado, a group of people masquerading as hunters and
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: anglers oppose Amendment 83, the ballot measure which aims to
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: make hunting and fishing a constitutional right in the state.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: A group called Colorado Hunters and Anglers for Sensible Wildlife
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: Conservation is spending big bucks to fight Amendment 83. The
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: majority of the funding for the group comes from Wayne
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Pacelli's Center for a Humane Economy. Pacelli, am I pronouncing
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: that right?
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Man, I don't know.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: All right, never mind.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Sounds good.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Pacelli.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: You say it with confidence.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: Pacelli served as president.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I bet he's Pacelli.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Of the HSUS.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I can tell. I just do not like this guy,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and he don't like me.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Which is the.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys would be good for a debate.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Long drive.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: He was the president of the Humane Society of the
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: United States for 14 years as an outright anti-hunter.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Can we clear up that that does not mean he
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: likes dogs.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: That is true.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: The Humane Society is an anti-hunting organization. H-S-U-S.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: H-S-U-S. That's right.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: They raise a lot of money.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: It's not the same thing as the Humane Society in
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: your neighborhood.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they raise a lot of money from people thinking
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: they're doing a solid for dogs. But then they turn
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: and use it for animal rights activism.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Are they like cousins or anything, those two organizations?
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: No, there's a split.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: So your local humane society shelters are no longer HSUS.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: He's an outright anti-hunter having helped ban dove hunting in Michigan.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: The Center for a Humane Economy was also one of
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: the largest donors to the 2024 group Cats Aren't Trophies
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: that tried and failed to pass Proposition 127 in Colorado,
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: which would have banned bobcat mountain lion hunting in the state. Now,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: the group's main argument against Amendment 83 is that it would,
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: under the wording Traditional Methods, allow for the reinstitution of
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: hunting practices banned in Colorado, such as the use of
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: steel-jawed leg-hold traps, spring bear hunting, baited bear hunting, and
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: wildlife killing contests. This is far from the truth. To
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: make these activities legal would require the voters to vote
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: at a 55% threshold in favor of.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: But I wish they were... I gotta butt in. I
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: wish they were right.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Please do.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: If you told me that passing this amendment would provide
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: an avenue to undo those bans, that would make me
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: like it more.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting because when I had that long chat,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I think I told you guys, I sent out that
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: text to my family group and friends in Colorado. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: then on the heels of that, I had about a
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: 90-minute conversation with my aunt who wanted to know how
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: I felt about 83.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: And.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: In there, we had to discuss a lot about like,
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I think I told you this about like what she
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: thinks poaching is, right? I said, well, no, not what
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: poaching is.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Trophy hunting.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Trophy hunting, right? And she's like, well, that's just when
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: people just take the head and take it home, put
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: it on the wall and just leave the meat. And
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: I said, well, that's illegal, you know?
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: You gotta get stuffed first.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's poaching. And so then we got to talking
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: about how she's seen that the people that are anti-83
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: are saying that it's gonna bring back all these other things.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: that she doesn't like. And so then I got into a,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: why don't you like hound hunting? Why don't you like
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: spring bear hunting? And then, so I had to go
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: through and explain that actually when you're, or let's say
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: beta bear hunting, it's a better way to preserve more
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: cubs lives. Cause the, the anti say that beta bear
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: hunting and in the spring, when you, you're going to
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: end up killing mom and you have orphaned cubs that
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: then just, you know, famished. Um, because you can watch
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: these animals. You can see if it's a sow or
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: if it's a boar, you can see if there's cubs
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: or not, et cetera. Same thing with hunting bears with dogs, right?
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: They're in a tree. You can assess the situation. You
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: don't have to make a... So, anyways, a lot of misinformation,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of propaganda out there.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: But I need now, before you proceed, I need to
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: now clarify. But it is correct.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Passing 83 does not undo any of these ballot initiatives.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just pointing out that I wish it did, but
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: it's an empty wish because there's no legal avenue for
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it to undo that.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: No.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Interestingly, though, there is a legal avenue to undo all
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: those things. But because it's so implausible that it would pass,
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: no one has tried to do it. But right now,
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: if we wanted to start a group that would try
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: to push for the re-legalization of spring bear hunting in Colorado,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: there is a process to do it. And then you'd
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: have to get the voters to vote for it. But
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: people don't see that as a plausible outcome, so no
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: one has tried it. 83 would not make that any
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: easier or change any of that. You'd still have to
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: go through the exact same process if you want to
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: try to... re-legalize these things. Let's see. So the use
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: of the term traditional methods, which is what the people
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: against 83 are saying is the big problem. That wording
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: is in the amendment to preserve the methods that are
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: currently available to hunters and anglers and to prevent further
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: erosion of opportunities. The wording traditional methods has been used
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: in 14 other states with constitutional rights to hunt and fish. Um,
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: I've said it before. It won't be long until they
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: say it's not ethical to have your lab flush a pheasant.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: Right now they take away, um, spring bear hunting. They
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: will come for your pheasant flushing lab.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Um, but there's been, there's been bills proposed in the
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: past that would remove dogs from that, that using dogs
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: for hunting is unethical.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: For upland birds?
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's been pitched. It hasn't been passed anywhere.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: But there's been attempts to just bucket all dog activities.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: They've been proposed?
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Okay. I hadn't seen that. So I'll leave you with this.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Ask yourself, why would a group with hunters and anglers
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: in their name take funds from one of the largest
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: anti-hunting organizations in the country?
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: There is a dude, you'll see his name pop up
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: in a lot of this. They kind of have this,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: they have like a stooge who has a hunting, fishing background.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And you'll often see this guy, his last name is Washburn.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: He's attached to this. He was attached to the cats
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: aren't trophies thing. And he's this guy that runs around
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: being like, oh, no, no, hunting means all this. He's
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: real important to me. But he somehow, over the decades,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: has become a animal rights activist and anti-hunter, but he
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: still kind of carries the torch as a hunter. He
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: still likes to identify as a hunter to give his
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: perspective some merit. So Washburn is in bed with these people.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: What's problematic about this individual is you'll often see, this
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: is where it's personal for me, you'll often see that
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: he'll be identified as one of the founders of Theodore
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. Now, apparently, he clarifies at times, he
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: clarifies that's not true, other people do that. But this guy,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: TRCP was founded by a guy named Jim Range. That's
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: the founder of TRCP. When you see this dude described
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: as some kind of 20-year-ago founder at TRCP, he most
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: certainly was not.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: What is his connection? Anything?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a connection set on the board at
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: a time. But when people talk about the founder of TRCP,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the founder of TRCP is a man named Jim Range.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: It is not a split. There's not like, oh, and
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: other people. It's Jim Range. Whatever his adjacency was to Range,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I've been with that organization as a board member for
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: a great many years, and I've been there. I have
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: listened to a hundred stories about the founding of TRCP
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and Jim Range, and this cat's name has never come
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: up in any of those things. He somehow has drifted
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: to the point where he aligns himself with these active
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: anti-hunting orgs. And one of his things to say is, like,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: one of his gripes with Amendment 83 is it says
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: that it applies the word management technique to certain wildlife species.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: And he's pointing out, well, maybe it's not best to
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: manage them through hunting. Meaning, like, you shouldn't be able
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: to hunt bears. You shouldn't be able to do this.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't be able to do that. And so that's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: his gripe. But he often tries to establish, like, some
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: teensy level of hunting bona fides that he doesn't have.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: This dude is in bed with.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: The animal rights movement. Same thing with this cat. We
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: used to report on a lot. Samantha Miller, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a hunter. It's like kind of now and then
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: under very, very specific sets of circumstances in order that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: you can go to these meetings and say that if.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: You were an animal rights person and you wanted to
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: boost your profile and gain a lot of credibility and
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: like shape your professional trajectory upwards the best thing you
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: could do is go out there and shoot a duck
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: yeah or a pheasant one and then and then build
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: yourself as a hunter yeah.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I think that they like to do that pheasant move
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: because it's kind of like they're like well it's not
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: native it probably is brought up in a box yeah
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know you do that like and then all of
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: a sudden you're like hey i'm a hunter yeah you
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: like you go get a pheasant some guy let go
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: out of a box And then you tell your wife, like,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: your wife's like, I can't believe you did that. They're like, well,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a chicken. I mean, it was
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: raised in a box.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so Colorado.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: If you're in Colorado, don't be fooled by that crap.
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: And get out there and vote.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Colorado hunters and anglers for sensible wildlife conservation. Be
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: very skeptical of what you see from them.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Just think about it like this. Why would a group
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: of Colorado hunters and anglers oppose.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Codifying the right to hunt and fish in Colorado. I
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: was going to make some analogies, but I don't think
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: you need one.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: This is from Eric.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: They'd be like weed smokers against legalizing weed, which I
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: could see because you like hiding in the bushes. You
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: like hiding in the bushes and stuff like that. Yeah,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: This is from Eric's bio on ColoradoHuntersAndAnglers.com.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Does he say founder?
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: He co-founded and led the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. That's
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: the second sentence of his bio.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay. So we know where that comes from. Apparently,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: he's trying to create a little distance between himself and
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: that descriptor.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: If you want the real dope, go to SaveTheHuntColorado.com. All right.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: New Mexico outfitter tags over to Yanni. And then we're
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: going to get into Nantucket deer. Do we want to
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: go out of order to make it like west, east, west, east?
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: Randall, why don't you take New Mexico outfitter tags?
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Sorry. Oh, yeah. Oh.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're done. You did your story.
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: Johnny's done.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Over and out. I want to go out of order.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Because New Mexico and Colorado, you know how they touch
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: each other? I want to jump over to Nantucket.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And I reminded Nate of that famous limerick. There was
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: a man from Nantucket. Go ahead, Nate.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Mansions falling into the seas. Alpha gal syndrome spreading like wildfire.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Native plants on the edge of extinction. What's the common denominator?
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: Whitetail deer running rampant in Nantucket. Got it. Did you
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: write that? I did.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: And now, you can get paid $ 150 for every whitetail
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: deer you kill and donate on one of the ritziest
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: islands in America.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: This is incredible.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I always got to pay to do that.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I know. Now you can be like Daniel Boone. Now
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about digging ginseng. Commercial deer hunter.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: There are many nuances to this. We will try to
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: hit all of them. This story, James Smith from the
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: email inbox wrote in to alert us. And a few things,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of elements. So to keep in mind,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: I just kind of want to bracket this. First off,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: the Nantucket deer problem is nuts. It's a 48-mile square
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: mile island with more than 125 deer per square mile.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: That is unbelievable.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Can I get just some perspective? 30 is a lot.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: 30 is a lot. Most land managers, like 20. Most
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: land managers would be like, 20?
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: 30 is like, damn.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: And is that 125 deer for every one of those
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: 48 square miles?
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Some go up to 150. And there's like, there's the
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: suburban thing. There's like, it's, there are, you can think
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: of it, there are a ton of deer.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: There's tons of concern. Many tons of deer.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Many tons of deer. Thank you. Tons of concern over
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: alpha gal, lime, and also environmental degradation, not just like,
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: you know, begonias or whatever. The second thing is, This
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: island is developing a holistic approach encompassing Massachusetts wildlife, local nonprofits, landowners,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: alternative funding programs. They've all banded together to provide cash
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: incentives for venison donations, unlimited antlerless tags, earn many more
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: buck tags, private land access.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Earn a bunch of bucks.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Earn a bunch of bucks. And other hunter incentives. Finally,
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: the thing to keep in mind is it's actually increasing
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: deer harvest. The venison stays on the island and feeds
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: the local population. And wealthy non-hunters that come to Nantuck
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: in the summer are increasingly supportive of these hunters. And
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: in this situation, there's natural barriers that can curb the
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: concern about market hunting, which is kind of top of
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: mind for all of us. So for anyone who lives
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: probably not in Massachusetts, you're asking, what is Nantucket? It's,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: as I mentioned, a 48 square mile island, about 30
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: miles off the Massachusetts coast. Phil's got a picture he's
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: going to run for us real quick. Just a Google
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Maps screenshot. You can see in that job, Phil. They're
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: in the Atlantic.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: You notice Phil's hovering his cursor.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: What a guy.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Over the area of interest.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Technology these days. You can see Philly down in the
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: bottom left.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: That's the hardest Phil's worked all week, hovering that cursor
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: over that.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: That was rude.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: He's breaking a sweat.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Maine's up there in the top right. You can see
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: Lake Ontario top left and then Nantucket in the bottom right.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Approximately 50% of that island is protected open space. The
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: other 50% is pretty developed. And most of that is
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: huntable in some form. There's archaeological evidence of deer. They
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: were gone by European contact. And in some way, they
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: were reintroduced in the early 1900s.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's nuts. At the time of European contact, if
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: you landed on Nantucket, there were no deer there.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some interesting... It's not super clear, but there's
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: some interesting articles that... And there's some genetic testing that...
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: There's legend that one deer was brought over. He was
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: swimming and some fishermen picked him up. Brought him and
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: then they thought he was lonely and two dudes or
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: people from Michigan brought two does from Michigan and That
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: has created the stock on the entire to be kidding.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: It's kind of true. It's interesting it more genetic bottleneck Yeah, yeah, man,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: but they're doing pretty dang.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: You know that so Nantucket Historical Association says that they
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: were there but natives drove them to be extirpated from.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: The I.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: So there's between 6,000 and 8,000 deer, 100 to 150
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: per square mile. Like we said, 20 is a lot.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: And then the demographics of the island itself, the median
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: home price is $ 3. 5 million. The year-round population of the island,
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: think of it as like the working population.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: The townies.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: The townies, about 15,000, and then it spikes to 60,000
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: in the summer. And there's this huge disparity between the
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: two groups, economically, lifestyle, probably culturally and politically different. But there's,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: there are two different groups of folks. The players that
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: are involved in this, this situation, there's, there's four that
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: you need to know. Martin Feehan. He is the Massachusetts
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: state biologist. He managed the herds, managed the extra tags
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: that earn, earn many more bucks. He oversees the hunters
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: share the harvest program, which is a state run venison
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: donation program. He's generally a great dude. Talk to him.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: He's awesome. The second one, Nantucket Conservation Foundation. This is
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: a nonprofit private organization focused on the ecological health of Nantucket.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: They're the ones running the pilot program that reimburses you
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: $ 150 per deer for every deer you donate to the
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Hunters Share the Harvest program. They also are the largest
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: landowner on the island, and they own approximately 8,000 acres,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: largely open, like 7,000 of those are open to hunting. Hmm.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: There's a map.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Are you going to cover whether there's some giants on
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: this island or not?
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Dude, there's some big bucks on this island. I look
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: forward to that part. Yeah, so this is a map
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: of their properties. The red is closed. The green is open.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: So it's pretty significant. The third player, and just to reiterate,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: that is a nonprofit funded by private dollars. The third player,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: the Nantucket Land Bank. This organization manages the deer processing
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: facility that turns your donated deer into edible meat. Um,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: distributes the processed venison to the Nantucket food pantry and
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: nourish Nantucket. And they own about 3,500 acres with hunting access.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: They own this land too.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: They are different entity that owns the land. They are
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: funded by a tax on real estate transactions with, and
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: those dollars specifically go to, uh, environmental projects and conservation.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: It's like similar to the weed tax we have in Montana.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: So Phil, if you'll go to that next one, it's
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: similar map. And this is the land bank properties open
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: and closed to hunting. The dark brown, I think that's brown,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: is that red? Whatever the darker color is that's closed,
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: the lighter color is open. And then fourth is ACT Deer.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: And that is a group of landowners that reimburses ferry costs,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: provides private access, and recruits other landowners to allow hunting
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: on their properties. Okay.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: God, these dudes are serious about getting some deer.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: They are.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: And so the problem, if we go back is 7,500 deer,
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: they're spreading alpha gallon lime. They're crushing native vegetation and
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: they're actually increasing erosion. Like you, there's all these articles
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: about Martha's vineyard, Nantucket houses falling in when those deer
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: walk across. And this is from the biologists. Isn't just
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: like some crackpot when they walk across those, the edges,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: they'll create these points like, like a deer trail. And
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: that's where the erosion will, will generally happen. Um, There
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: there's 7,500 deer. 1,500 is the theoretical target population. That's
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: like 30 deer per square mile, basically 20 and 30. Um,
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: that's very unlikely they get there just cause the suburban
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: nature and whatnot. Um, they historically kill $ 900 deer year.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: And to start moving that number from 7,500 down to 1,500,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: they need to kill 2000. So they need to double
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: their harvest per year per year. Um, and that's just
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: to start moving in the right direction. Uh, they've tried
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: a ton of things and, and the, The incentives that
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: they've tried and that they found is kind of the
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: magic sauce here, is they have $ 30, 000 in private money
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: or 200 deer at 150 bucks a pop for every donation.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: The Hunter's Share the Harvest program is free. It's paid
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: for by those tax dollars. And all that food stays
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: on the island and feeds food insecure folks. If you
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: donate two deer, you earn an additional any sex tag.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: So your tag, your license comes with two bucks. You
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: can buy an additional doe tag for $ 10. When you
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: donate two deer to this program, you get an additional
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: buck tag, basically.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Every time.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: Every time. And you can just get, you can get
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: doe tags. You can get antlerless tags, pretty much as
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: many as you want on the island. There's unlimited antlers
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: on the island that's been since like 1998. The seasons
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: have doubled. It goes now from September 21st to February 14th.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: There's a ferry reimbursement up to 500 bucks. There's bumper
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: stickers that if you participate, the state sends you a
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: bumper sticker. There's custom hats that the island pays for
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: that you get a custom hat if you participate in
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: the program.
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: And then... Just gets better and better.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, now I'm going, dude. Fee hand... He, he, because
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: it's a state run, um, deer donation program, he manages,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: not only can he issue more tags for donations, he
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: manages your contributions and he sends you a report of
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: how many meals you provided to the community from all
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: the deer you donated.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to go out here now.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: It's dude.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I'm on X right now.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Sounds like a blast.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm sure we can get some ends, man. Let's
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: cut this segment out of the podcast. People always talk
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: about spot burning. Spot burning Nantucket, man.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: So I'll get to that. There was a man.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: In Nantucket, hauled his meat to town in a bucket.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Hauled his hunting gear in a bucket.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Seems like a pain in the ass to get to.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, buddy, it is.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they pay you 500 bucks back.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: You know how much a ferry round trip with a
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: truck is? No.
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: 600.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so 100 bucks.
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: No camping on the island.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I'll find the right landowner.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: We'll figure it out. I'm just saying for the, for
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: the average guy, like the, the, the obvious critique and,
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: and what, what listeners highlighted is like, Hey, is this allowed?
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: Are we going to like whack all these deer? What's
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: going to happen? You, you cannot make money off this.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: The pro what the program's doing. Cause in the fall,
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: most of the hotels shut down because it's summer Island.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Then you're stuck with expensive Airbnbs, which if there is
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: a hotel open, you probably can't man and mess with
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: your deer there. You can't camp, so you can't take
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: your truck camper. They, like, explicitly ban truck top campers,
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. What? And so you're looking.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, they ban truck top campers?
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: You're looking at $ 1, 000 a night. to stay there and
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: hang out, basically.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: But why can't you camp at one of your landowners' places?
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: You could camp at a landowner if you had a
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: landowner hookup. But for the masses, this isn't going to
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: be some giant draw. There are significant barriers to entry.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Who shot this big stack of bucks in this photo?
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: So I'll get there. Look at that. Okay, well, let's
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: hit the big stack of bucks. The way most deer
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: are killed is the shotgun season in early December. where
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: they do like 50-person drives. The biologist was saying, he
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: said he grew up in Wisconsin.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: 50-person drives.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: You've never seen drives like this.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Drive the whole island.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: You'll drive. And so there's like these big grassland, these
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: kind of savannas that they maintain. It's a little artificial
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: because it's to recreate the goats that used to run there,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: and now they mow them and whatnot. And then there's
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: all the scrub oak that they hang out in. And
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: so you just have dudes push this. And you will
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: stack deer. I mean, there's pictures like this all over.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: If we could all get out there and have a
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: place to stay.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Man, it'd be so fun.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Like, take advanced deer drive strategies.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: If you're a Nantucket landowner, take that monocle out of
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: your eye. Put down your money bags and give.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Us a call.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Let's plan a drive, man. So. I think we should
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: bring Doug Dern as like the drive master.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Coordinator.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Drive coordinator. Because he would want to make it more
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: of a mooch.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: Hmm. Nah, a drive a mooch I understand I've got
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of buckshot.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah my house this would be the most fun thing
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: in the world I wanted to do then all that
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: money we'd make I want.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Some of the I want some of the contributors that
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: spoke to most of the people at these orgs and
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: they're awesome they're all they all like get it they
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: all care Um, I think we would do a follow-up
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: at the end of the season and see like, what
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: are the results? How did it happen? Is the trend increasing?
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: Are we getting to that 2000?
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Um, that 900 is going to go up.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it'll hit 2000 unless we can
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: get this mooch to be loose.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: So the, the, you know, they have, they have funds for,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: for 200 deer, basically. The residents have already expressed that
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: they want, they have a desire to fund this more
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: because they're seeing it as so successful. Um, but also
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: one thing that Mr. Feehan Martin, uh, that he highlighted
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: is all these trends were, were going, most of these
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: incentives existed before the financial incentive that was, is piloting this,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: this year. So we're like three weeks old on the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: financial side. Um, he was like, the trends were already
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: going up. All these other incentives were working. So it's
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: not just the dollars. The results so far last year
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: was a record harvest. Um, over half the deer killed
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: on the Island are being donated and eaten by folks
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: on the Island. Um, Right now, for 2026, they're already
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: above trend for the first few weeks in just archery.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: They're forecasting another record year. And like I said, deer
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: drives is when you're going to make your money. That's
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: when you're going to stack them up.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: You know how much is sitting right there in bounty money?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Tell me.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I imagine they really don't want to.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: Use the word bounty. You donate a thing and they
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: will reimburse you. It's all donation based.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: They're not liking the word bounty. What's the take here?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: Well, that's.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: That's $ 3, 600 in bounty.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Money right there. That's the way to do it. Cover
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: three nights on the island.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Shooting Randall's ammo.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: Where are these big mega giants you were talking about?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: He didn't say mega giants.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: He said something similar.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: There's two that are big. We'll get to it. If
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: I can finish real quick. The things that matter. Actually, Randall,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: if you'll pull up a big old giant and send
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: it to Phil. This matters because it's bucking a lot
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: of the trends of issues we're having with whitetail overpopulation.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Non-hunter acceptance is increasing. They didn't hire sharpshooters to come in.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: They're leveraging the hunters that already exist. The private dollars
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: are what's funding these financial incentives. You can imagine it's
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: generally a wealthy donor who probably doesn't live there in
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: the fall. And those are benefiting the working class that
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: do live there year round. The state managed venison donation
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: program is significantly more effective than nonprofit versions. Not because
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: nonprofits are bad or anything, It's because the state has
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: the ability to leverage additional tags and additional resources that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: a nonprofit wouldn't. And then the alternative funding method, which
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: we always love to highlight through the tax on real
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: estate sales is what's allowing the meat to be donated
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: and then eventually eaten by folks on the island. And
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: I think the coolest thing to kind of highlight is
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: that venison is becoming and has become a primary protein
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: source for year-round residents in one of the richest places
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: in the U.S. You know, like, Most people on the
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: island are eating venison in one way or another in
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: a place you would not expect to be eating venison.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: And so the real question is like, can this be replicated?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: Is this a tool we can adopt for CWD? Is
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: this just like a weird thing that can happen on Nantucket?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It'll be interesting. Not that it can't. I'm skeptical that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: it would become any widespread model because I think here
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: you have an exceptionally wealthy population of people that are
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: dealing with a very acute crisis where their grandkids, their children, whatever,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: are reluctant to go outside because Lyme is so prevalent.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: They're getting alpha-gal syndrome. The tick stuff's out of control.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: It's very, very nimby. And I think that there's a
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: lot of areas in the country where you could point
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, we have a real problem with CWD,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: for instance. And they would say, how's that my problem?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Show me the problem. It doesn't resonate with them. But
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I think here on Nantucket, it's resonating with them. The
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: actual residents are feeling the effects of insane deer densities.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: So I think that it's personal for them and they
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: are people of means, right? And you have these organizations
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: that own this land that can be opened up to hunt.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: And that's not always the case. So I would say,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I would say, cool idea, I don't, and maybe in
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: here and there, maybe on Martha's Vineyard, which has a
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: similar problem, sure. But generally, no.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Martha's Vineyard is, they actually, they created this idea, and
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: there's a similar model, and then Tech has taken it.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: I just, what I thought.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: Do you have an ear tag?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: I was just going through Photos, and I didn't notice that.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: But that was, this buck was spotted just swimming off
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: the coast of Nantucket. It's a lot of cool pictures
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: of white-tailed deer with the ocean in the background.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: My takeaway, to respond to your comment, my takeaway is CW,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: I think to make this effective across more jurisdictions, CWD
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: would have to jump to a person, and then people
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: would start caring about it. And nobody wants that.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Well, then they would just say, I'm not going to
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: eat deer meat.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: Well, then you'd have to change the donation. It would
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: get all squirrely. But until that, I just don't think
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: there's an impetus.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: For it to exist. No, I think it would work
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: on really rich islands. Fire Island. Yeah, I can sit
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: and name them. I'm kind of running out of islands,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: but yeah.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: It's a good island play.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: It would be maybe.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: It's a good island move.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: These deer should pat themselves on the back. It's rare
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: that they become such a problem that they can get
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: an entire community to agree that, like, we got to
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: get rid of these things.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: If it gets bad enough there, maybe they'll allow Spencer
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: and his truck camper to show up.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: They really brought the town together.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: But, man, that big buck drive, dude, if you could
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: drive the whole island.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: You'd want to bring in some of them dudes that
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: fought on, like, Okinawa and whatnot.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: Snapshooters?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Just to be like, hey, man, how do you run, like,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: something like this?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: Amphibious assault.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you run, like, just really getting in
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: there on an island?
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: You know, we need some Marines.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Some Zodiacs. Yeah, we need some Marines.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: Not calling the Army this time. Phil, did you get
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: that picture I just sent you? That's this one that's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: about to pop up. It's Martha's Vineyard Buck.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: That is.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: I don't get it.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Okay, because the ear tag buck, I don't
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: know what I'm looking at.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: That's a buck. That's a big dog.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: That's Martha's Vineyard.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: Good job, young fella, using a real bow.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Stand-up bow. What do they call them bows?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Vertical.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Compound.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Look at that young guy. That's a nice buck, man.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: And he's got $ 150 lying in his pocket now. No,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: because he might not be from the pay place.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: No, Nantucket has $ 100 for a buck and $ 150 for
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: a duck.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and what's interesting, the last point I have about
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: this that didn't really click with me, should you go
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: to Nantucket and shoot a deer and say, I'm going
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: to eat this one myself, you're out. No one's giving
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: you $ 150.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: You've got to donate it to get the money.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: But especially on those drives, I think you are– there's
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: a guy already. I didn't have a chance to talk
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: to him. I'm hoping to get him on next time.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: A guy's already killed– donated eight.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: Steve, this might be a case where you could have
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: your cake and eat it too.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: But I think that they should also be– I don't
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: think they should be discriminating against deer meat eaters. I
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: think it should be, Hey man, donate it or bring
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: us like it's ear. Yeah. It's left ear. It's tail.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: And we'll give you 150 bucks. So that'll help them
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: avoid the bounty.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: Allegations.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: If you bring us a scalp, we'll give you $ 150.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: The precursor for this was a private citizen who was
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: doing it. She had similar program, but she said your
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: third deer and on, she would give a hundred bucks
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: per deer. And he just didn't move the needle. Um,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: I think dudes who are whacking all these deer, they're
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: eating their deer and they're donating.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: You can only eat so many deer.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: If you're like a single guy, I'm kind of out
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: of touch on this issue because we have a family
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: of five. If you're a single guy, how many deer
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: can you eat? If you eat at home every night,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: how many deer are you going through?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: Two?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Three?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: If you're a single dude? Annually?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: Way more than two or three, I would think. I
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: don't know what the number is.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: I would love if you're a single dude hunting on Nantucket,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: whacking deer, right in.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: Tell us how many deer you're eating. When we were
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: rich in deer meat as single guys, our mantra was
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: like burgers for lunch, steaks for dinner. Two meals a day,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: not just one meal a day. Living the dream. That
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: was a great report, man.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Real good report.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: Big shout out to all those organizations. Listen back if
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: you want to hear their names.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Doing that deer drive.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: Kentucky Conservation Foundation.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Shooting windows out of those sweet houses on accident. I'm
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: not saying that should happen. I'm just saying that's a
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: problem I could imagine.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: You remember how we covered Massachusetts, the changes in the laws,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: the Sunday hunting, and the 250-foot standoff?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: There's pretty significant impact for this island if that goes through.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: Talking to the biologists. It would shut the harvest down. No,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: it would increase it remarkably.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean getting rid of it.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: No, because right now the laws being proposed is it
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: would open up Sunday hunting and it would reduce the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: standoff from 500 feet to 250. Got it. Huge impact
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: on these two islands. Open up a lot more opportunities.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: You think of a weekend warrior who's going to go
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: there Friday to Monday or whatever. He can't hunt Sunday.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: There's no point. Martin Feehan, Nantucket Conservation Foundation, Nantucket Land Bank,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: and Act Deer.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to leave it be there. Because I
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: feel that it's so limited, I'm not going to get
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: into the doom and gloom about incentivizing about making a
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: market dynamic for deer meat. I'm not even going to
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: get into it. What I'm doing right now is an apophysis.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing something up by saying I won't bring it up.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm not even going to bring that up. I'm
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: not going to bring up what this would mean for
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: wildlife management in America if you were monetarily incentivized to
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: go out and harvest wild game. I don't even want
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: to get into it. I'm not bringing that up.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: But think about it.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: To New Mexico?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, please.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: All right. So a couple, I guess it was maybe
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: two months ago, I covered a court case in New
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: Mexico that had to do with fraudulent tag applications. And
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 5: as part of that discussion, I talked about how exceptional,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: in a bad way, New Mexico is among Western states
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: for fraud. resident hunter and tag allocation because they have
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: an outfitter set aside they also have uh landowner transferable
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: landowner tags um and in that discussion i sort of
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: hinted that this thing was coming uh but the the
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: headline this week is uh i guess it was last
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: week the attorney general of new mexico raul torres released
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: his attorney general opinion that the 10 set aside of
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: hunting tags in new mexico for outfitters is unconstitutional so
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: he has issued the league it's the legal opinion of
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 5: the state's chief lawyer it's not a binding policy change
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 5: or anything but he has looked at the law and
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: he's looked at the constitution and there's a big long
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: opinion that you can read but they don't course correct
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: you can sue them that's right um and so this
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: is i i spoke with the ag's office this morning
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 5: and they they pointed out this is not like a
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: They have an ongoing process where lawmakers can point out
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: things that the state's doing and ask for the AG's opinion.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 5: So this was part of a process. It wasn't like
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 5: a special investigation that they did, right? But it's a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 5: part of their state governance process. And lawmakers on April
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: 29th of this year sought an attorney general opinion on
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: two questions about tag allocation. And they observed that One,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: there's this 10% set aside of tags for outfitters. And
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 5: this is controversial because, especially among state residents, because they
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: believe it's a carve out to wealthy non-resident hunters.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: And- Like earlier when I was talking about that supply
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: and demand issue. Here you have New Mexicans, people from
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, all those trying to get tags coming up
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: empty handed. But meanwhile, they're, Yeah, and this is... Outfitters
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: are getting the tags.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 5: And this is something, when I spoke to the Attorney
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: General's office, they actually said, you know, the Attorney General
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: wanted to get his son out elk hunting and couldn't
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: get him a tag. And so this is something that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: had actually affected him personally. You know, like, it's not
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: an unfamiliar scenario for hunters in New Mexico to think
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: of tags they want and that other people are getting
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: because of these programs that they have. So the questions
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 5: that these lawmakers asked, and... Nathan Small, Representative Nathan Small,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 5: was was one of those lawmakers who asked for the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: attorney general's opinion. They asked about the license, the 10
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 5: percent set aside. And then there's also a thing that
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: New Mexico Department of Wildlife does where they combine units
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: for bighorn sheep licenses in order to create essentially more
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: places where you can pull 10 percent from. create more
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: pools where you can pull 10% from. And they asked
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: about these questions individually and together, what are the constitutional
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: implications in relation to a provision in the New Mexico
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: state constitution that it's called the anti-donation clause. And this
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: bans the state from making gifts or donations to private persons, associations,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: or corporations. So The Attorney General's opinion is, it's 13 pages,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: and in brief, he finds that the anti-donation clause, quote,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: conveys exclusive access to a public resource without constitutionally adequate considerations.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: And then he, that's looking at the outfitter's suicide, and
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: then the bighorn hunt lumping is, quote, infected by anti-donation
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: clause issues. And eventually, The opinion concludes, a state program
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: that transfers the exclusive right to broker access to a
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: public resource without genuine consideration and at the expense of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: the residents that resource belongs to bears the character of
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: a donation in substance and effect. The New Mexico Constitution
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: prohibits it. And he's quoted in the paper or in
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: a statement, Um, he says hunting hasn't just been a
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: sport in New Mexico. It's a way of life that
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: tradition is being sold out from under working New Mexicans
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: right now, a broken system lets wealthy out of staters
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: by their way to the front of the line while
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 5: our own families wait year after year for a tag. Um,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: so as I said previously, it's, it's, it's an opinion
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: of the state's chief lawyer. It's not binding, but the
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 5: legislature will convene on January 19th. and the Attorney General's
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: office is hopeful that they will address this legislatively through statute.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 5: Nathan Small is one of the lawmakers who asked the
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 5: Attorney General to review this issue. He said that they
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 5: plan to address this. It's still given the election season.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: They're not really putting draft legislation out there yet, but
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: it seems like everyone in New Mexico that I talked
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 5: to is expecting that the legislature will take this up.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: And the Outfitters set aside, it seems, really would require
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: statute to change that. The Bighorn unit lumping, the department
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: could maybe address through administrative rulemaking, but they really need
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: the legislature to step up and address this issue. Or else, yeah,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 5: litigation either from the Attorney General or private parties could
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: sue and say my rights under the Constitution are being violated.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: So this is, I mean, there's a lot of numbers
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: to run through here. And I don't know that that's
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: going to help clarify things. But I think that the
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 5: takeaways are, this is really good news that lawmakers and
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 5: the attorney general are taking action against this unfair tag allocation.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: You're going to opine on this. This is not just
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the facts.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 5: No, I think, I mean, I'm prepared to opine on it.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 5: You know, one of the interesting questions when I talked
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: to Jeremy Romero, he was saying, you know, even if
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 5: they do away with this 10% allocation, it's like, okay,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: well now you have this additional 10% of tags. Do they,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 5: do you split those between residents and non-residents? Do you
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 5: just dump all those into the non-resident pool? I mean,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 5: those are all things that'll, that'll be determined.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: Somehow I thought, and I don't even know why I
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: thought this, I thought it was six, four. It could be, but.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: It's not necessarily. I made that up. I believe that's
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: what they're anticipating it will be, but it's not in
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: any draft.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: So a 6% increase if they did it that way. Yeah.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: A 6% increase in tags available to residents, a 4%
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: increase of elk tags available to non-residents.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: And what's appealing about that scenario is, so right now
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: there's a 6% non-resident carve-out And then on top of that,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 5: there's this 10% of outfitter tags. And then the remainder
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: is resident. Or I should say the remainder is divided
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: into other pools, right? Like the landowner tags and all that.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 5: But if you were to divide it 6-4 and add
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: that 4% to the pre-existing 6%, it would bring it
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: to 90-10, which is a pretty standard ratio for big
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: game games.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Across the West. And there's some squirreliness with this program
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't aware of. If you, I believe that
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: you only need to use the Outfitter services for a
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: capped period of time, two or three days.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: So when you apply and get the Outfitter.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: If you apply and get the Outfitter tag. Yeah. If
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: the Outfitter like packs you in somewhere and hangs out
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: for a day or two. you then hunt on your own.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: It's two or three day cap. So you could make
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: a two week, whatever, 10 day hunt, whatever. You're not
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: even with the outfitter. You're not paying for the outfitter
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: the whole time. You're paying for the outfitter for a
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: couple of days.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Squirrely little detail.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: And, and one of the things that the attorney general
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: pointed out in the, in the opinion is that, the
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: outfitters are paying fees to be licensed or registered, and
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: they're essentially paying collectively $ 150, 000 in outfitter fees as a whole.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: I think it's $ 500 to register for an individual outfitter.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: And then the benefit that they're getting from the state
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: in terms of the value of those tags is $ 15 million.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: So it's essentially saying, How can this not be considered
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: a gift or a donation in violation of the constitution?
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: If they're paying in a dollar for every hundred dollars
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: they're getting back from the state.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: I will point out too, because I also talked to
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: folks who are deeply invested in just the broader landscape
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 5: of this non-resident resident issue in New Mexico. And, you know,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 5: the vast majority of those privatized tags are, not from
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 5: the outfitter pool. Like the out, like if you got away,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: if you did away with all the outfitter tags tomorrow,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: New Mexico is still like grossly in, uh, it's still
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 5: like this, this huge exception. When you look across Western
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: States at the number of transferable tags that are given
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: out to private entities.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why that's when I, that's what I'm going
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: to crystal ball for you. My, this is my, this
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: is my, this is my hypothesis that this is a,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: an initial play. Right. And what will come up for
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: discussion next is that in New Mexico, they have these
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: transferable open unit elk tags.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Where a rancher, if he owns a specified acreage, he
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: gets handed elk tags by the state and he can
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: sell those elk tags to But when someone buys that
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: elk tag from that rancher, they can hunt anywhere in
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: the unit. I've bought these. Yeah.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: Bought one of these.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, you could be like, hey,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: I hate the game, not the play or whatever. I've
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: bought these. It is, it's a squirrely system. And it
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: just is.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: But that's the system.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: But that's the system. I heard, I don't know if
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: it's true. Like, you know, the Vermejo Ranch, Ted Turner's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Vermejo Ranch, New Mexico. My understanding is they, is that
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: they are given a hundred landowner elk tags.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: It's New Mexico issues just under three quarters of all
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 5: transferable private landowner tags in the West.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: Seriously.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: Can I give you the split from.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: And one, one more point on this. Um, You know,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 5: the other, when you talk about the two in conversation,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 5: the outfitter tags and the landowner tags, I mean, the
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 5: big difference is there is that the outfitters and guides
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: are promoted primarily like working class, New Mexicans, business owners.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: When you get into the landowner thing, you're talking about
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: some of the wealthiest, like you bring up Ted Turner,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: some of the wealthiest entities in the state who have
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 5: a lot more pull at the legislative level. So this
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: is definitely the, the easier of the two hurdles.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that they would have said, which of these
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: do we bring up first?
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: And again, it's just my hypothesis that that's going to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: be the next discussion is what do we do about
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: this huge pool of transferable open unit tags?
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 5: And I, I asked if I asked, um, I asked
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 5: whether or not the same argument could be made about
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: landowner tags. And, uh, the attorney general's office basically said that's,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: That's not how this works. We were asked to look
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: into two different questions relating to these specific programs. And
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: so they can't really, very different. They can't crystal ball it.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Very different, very, very different things.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 5: Very different setups. And they, they derive from different statutes.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 5: It's all very complicated, but for people in New Mexico
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 5: that want an elk tag that want to hunt elk
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: in their home state, it's the same. It's, it's kind
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 5: of sticks in your craw the same way.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. new mexico wildlife federation 40 of all elk licenses
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: in new mexico are allocated to private landowners of those
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: 75 approximately go to non-residents and 20 of those are
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: unit-wide tags oh which means they can run right away
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: only 20 of those i didn't know that still big
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: big chunk okay okay.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 5: Hmm so yeah i mean it's obviously this is big
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 5: news and it's It's interesting to see an attorney general's
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 5: office talking about fairness in tag allocation.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: It's encouraging to see that be taken seriously. Yeah.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Hmm. I wasn't going to opine on it, but you
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: opined on it. That's cool.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: Op-ed.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, man.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: Stepping in there, getting all controversial. Onto that power line.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Now this is one, this is one of those ones where, um,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: This is a news story where I might not look
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: at it and be like, well, that's big enough for
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: the news show. You know?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I might look at it and be like, that seems
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: like almost too local. But a lot of guys, either
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of listeners in the Driftless area of Wisconsin,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: or it just is a huge issue. Where a lot
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: of guys are writing in about this big ass power line.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: They're fixing to cut through Wisconsin's Driftless area. The lovely
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: and beautiful Phil is going to pull up, if you're watching,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: he's going to pull up a photo.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: This is the first I'm hearing about this, Steve.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: Give me one second here.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Nate really shit the bed on this particular segment.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: It's right there.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Can you pull it up? I thought you were just
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: amused by how he introduced you. I wanted a graphic
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: that shows dudes stacked up. You know, like if you're
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: showing how big a mammoth is, you got like two
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: dudes standing there.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: It would show dudes all stacked up showing how high
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: these things are. This is a huge power line.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: Huge.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: I don't see the image.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: Regardless.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: I'll move on. I'll get it up eventually. Nate, can
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: you just send it to me, please?
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: Imagine, if you will, a power line.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Of enormous dimensions.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: So it's one of those giant, giant power lines. 200
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: foot tall towers. The right-of-way strip is just under 100
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: yards wide. So now picture this sucker coming in through
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: your zone, 100 yards wide. The contested portion of this
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: thing is about 140 miles. It runs from Marion, Minnesota,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: near Rochester, to Bell Center, Wisconsin, and Crawford County. In Wisconsin,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: it goes through Vernon and Crawford counties, crosses the Mississippi
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: River near Genoa, and everybody's arguing about the route this
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: is going to take. Now, this thing is so big.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: This thing won't be cranking electricity until 2034. Look at
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: that guy's house. Imagine being that sucker. It's like that
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: power line, if it was animated, that tower would reach
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: down and pick that dude's house up. picture it as
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: a monster, which it's shaped like, would pick that dude's
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: house up and throw it if it were animated. Part
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: of the problem with this power line, why is that funny?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 5: I just like that you had to couch that.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Of course, if they were to come to life.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: Just clarifying for listeners, as currently... configured it is not
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: capable of picking a house up and throwing it has
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: kaiju energy the other type.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: Of transformer.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Part of what is burning wisconsinites asses on this whole
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: thing is this moving power across the region not to
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: the region so wisconsinites reasonably are like hey what's in
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: it for me man this is bringing power from one
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: set of people to another set of people mowing through
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: all our area and it's not even doing us any
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: good And a lot of opponents are pointing out that
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin's electric demand has been flat for about 20 years,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: so they're just having a hard time picturing why life
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: needs to now be upended by this power line through
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: an area where it's going to cross Beaucoup cold water
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: trout streams, including the Kickapoo watershed, and it's in the
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Mississippi Flyway, which if you're a duck and goose guy,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: the Mississippi Flyway is not looking for more problems. bird
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: flight obstructions. Here to tell us a little more about it,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: because he's been on the ground, is the most civically
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: minded individual that I hang out with. Doug Duren from
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: Driftless Area, Wisconsin. Doug goes to meetings about stuff. When
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: there's a meeting about deer management, Doug goes. When there's
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: a meeting about big power lines, Doug goes. Very civically engaged.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: And Doug's going to give us a little local flavor
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: about what exactly is going on and how people are
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: receiving this. Doug, thanks for coming on.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 7: Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, this is kind
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 7: of interesting. There's the two segments. There's the BECI line
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 7: that you're talking about. and then the continuation of that,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 7: which actually would go through Richland, Sauk, Vernon, and Monroe County.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 7: It's sort of all tied together. And the issue that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 7: we're having at this point is that at the end
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 7: of the July, first part of August, landowners found out
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 7: about it. And they got letters that said, you know,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 7: we're going to be coming through your area, and there
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 7: are all these proposed lines. And then suddenly it's going
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 7: to be approved by the PSC early in 2027. So
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 7: as you can imagine, there are a lot and a
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 7: lot of questions about it all. It's one of those
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 7: things where you don't want to be that guy who says,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 7: not in my backyard, but I would say a couple
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: of things about it. One of them is that, first
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 7: of all, there's several power lines that are already going
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 7: through the Driftless that are transmission lines taking power to
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 7: other parts of the country. And this is a part
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 7: of the, of the Midwest, the MISO, the Mid-Continent Independent
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 7: System Operator grid. So this is a big grid issue, right?
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 7: And where they're wanting to put it is really a
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 7: big part of the problem. There's a hierarchy in the
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 7: state of what you're supposed to be considering when you're
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 7: doing this. The first one is to use the existing
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 7: utility corridors. The second is to use.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 7: Like interstate highways and state highway corridors. The third is
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 7: railroad corridors, which there are, you know, that are being used,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 7: but then also that are decommissioned. And then the fourth
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 7: one is a new route. Well, when this was proposed
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 7: and the information came out to the landowners, it was
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 7: like they skipped all the first three and went right
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 7: to number four. And it feels like there's a steamroller
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 7: coming through the driftless. Like we're going to do this.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 7: This is how it's going to, how it's going to happen.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 7: And it's been a, interestingly, it's been a really uniting
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 7: thing in the Driftless area. You know, there's a lot
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 7: of divergent ideas about everything in the Driftless area, politics
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 7: and such, but this is something that people of all
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 7: political and other stripes have gotten together and are behind, like,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 7: not even the, There's a faction that says, no way,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 7: no how, we've already done our share. We've already got
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 7: lines going through that are for this transmission grid. There's
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 7: that faction. And there's others that are saying, let's slow down.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 7: Let's take some time to look at this and have
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 7: a thoughtful plan if this is going to happen. And
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 7: it just doesn't feel like that's the interest. I had
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 7: a state senator stop by the other day to an
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 7: event that i was at and i talked to her
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 7: about it she said i found out about it the
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 7: same day that landowners found out about.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: It doug why did they skip the one two and
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: three if if you'd be like if you're going to
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: do a power line do it where you already have
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: a power line or do it along the side of
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: a highway or do it along the side of a
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: set of railroad tracks why did they skip all that
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: and just decide that they want to just cut it
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: through a bunch of farm ground.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 7: I wish I knew the answer to that, Steve, and
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 7: that's why we're asking, that's why the folks at, especially
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 7: at know765. org are saying, let's take a step back, let's
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 7: think about this process a little bit more. And that's
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 7: one of the questions that hasn't been answered, along with
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 7: some others that might need, like, you said earlier that,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 7: I mean, this isn't for people of the driftless area.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 7: This is going through the driftless area. This isn't for us.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 7: It's through us.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 7: Uh, and that's a problem. You know, I think that you,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 7: you would, you know enough about the driftless to know
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 7: that there's some pretty generous people here and we're willing
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 7: to help out, but it feels like we've helped out
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 7: with these other lines and now they just want to
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 7: do this, um, again, without really much of a deliberative process. Um,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 7: And there's big money behind it and all of that.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 7: I mean, you know, the other question that I have
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 7: is why can't they bury this lane? Turns out they could.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah. And well, it's done all over the world and
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 7: in some places of the United States. This is a
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 7: big chunk of power going through there. But they could
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 7: do that. And there just doesn't seem to be any,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 7: or if there has been any consideration to that, it's
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 7: not one that's been made clear to the public or
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 7: our elected officials. Like I said, my state senator was
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 7: here and she's like, I didn't really have any more
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 7: information than anybody else. So there's a lot of, you know, protesting. And,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 7: I mean, you can't drive around without seeing signs about it.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 7: And people are writing me and saying, why isn't Ronella
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 7: talking about this? He likes the Driftless area. And I'm like,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 7: you know, you should probably ask him that question. So,
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 7: I mean, I'm directing some of that traffic for you,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 7: of course. One of the things that I wanted to
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 7: point out to you is that one of the proposed lines,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 7: remember that first time you came out and you and
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 7: Mo and Dan Doty came out and we shot that
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 7: first episode sort of at the end of the season?
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 7: And then we went down to Kiefer's old, well, formerly
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 7: Kiefer's Farm, but we went down to Kiefer's Farm.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 7: And we shot that little PRCP video.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 7: About the Conservation Reserve Program, about changing the land use.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 7: And look at here, the brook trout have come back.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 7: One of these proposed lines is right up that valley.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, is that right? Yeah. Right.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 7: I mean, right through Kiefer's old farm. I mean, he
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 7: sold his farm, but.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Really? God, that changed that place, man.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: Holy smokes.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 7: I mean, imagine that.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 7: And I mean, there's all of these environmental concerns and
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 7: none of them seem to be, they certainly haven't been
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 7: addressed to the public. And so this just seems like this,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 7: we're being steamrolled.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: What are the odds, Doug, what are the odds that
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: when something like this is happening, I don't want to
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: say when something like this is happening, we'll stick to
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: this power line. What are the odds that they sort
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: of imagine this as an initial offer where they're saying,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: let's test the waters, man. We'll put it out there
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: and see how much blowback there is, and then we'll
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: land where else. But let's just start by saying the
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: thing that's most profitable, easiest to do, and see if
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: these people fight back or not. But in the back
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: of their minds, they know it's not going to work
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: the way they want it to work.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's almost like it's their first position we'll see.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 7: And some of the evidence of that is if you
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 7: flip through the maps and everything of the thing, you'll
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 7: see that there are like four different routes that are proposed.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 7: And it's almost like, let's see where the most resistance
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 7: or the least resistance is to it. Um, and, um,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 7: it's almost like they're, you know, one person, one landowner
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 7: might say, well, as long as they don't come through mine,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 7: it'd be all right. People aren't, they aren't buying that, man. They're,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 7: they are united against the idea of it. Um, to
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 7: begin with, man, I should, this is a funny thing.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 7: You know, I thought it was hilarious. I sat down
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 7: at one of these meetings and sitting next to me
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 7: as an Amish doc dude. And I'm like, what are
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 7: you doing here? You don't use electricity.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 7: And I said it just like that. And he looked
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 7: at me and said, well, they want to put this
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 7: line through my land. So you can imagine how I
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 7: feel about it.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: Oh, is that right?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: No kidding, man. Dude, the irony of that, talking about
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: not for it, but through it. The irony of that, dude,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: not even using any juice and having that thing running
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: through his place. Listening to that thing humming and crackling
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 7: So those are the issues. And at the end of
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 7: the day, the biggest issue is, The biggest issues are
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 7: it's not for us. It's through us. Wisconsin's use has
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 7: been flat. It doesn't seem to me that it's, or
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 7: to anybody else, that it's been very well planned. And then,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 7: you know, we could get into bigger discussions about what
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 7: are we doing about energy conservation? What are we doing
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 7: about alternative energies? And should we be thinking about more
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 7: regional generation as well? You know, this power is going
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 7: to Chicago and, You know, East is like, well, put
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 7: it that way. The projected use in Wisconsin is pretty
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 7: much flat forward, except for one thing. And that is
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 7: if there are AI data centers built here.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 7: It's already been one that is under construction, and future
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 7: ones are being flat. So this stuff is all tied together,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 7: you know? I mean, we all want to use electricity.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 7: We all got to have electricity. but it's a bigger
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 7: conversation and it just seems like, you know, it seems
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 7: like the, like my friend Ken Butcher said, if you don't, if,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 7: if things are going to change, you can't keep doing
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 7: things the same way. And that's, it's sort of it,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 7: you know, why aren't we, why aren't we thinking about
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 7: what the other possibilities are here? And it just, I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 7: think there's, I mean, obviously it's like a one point,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 7: I think you said at a $ 1. 3 billion project, there's
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 7: a lot of steel involved with these things. And I
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 7: don't know, man, it's, it just seems like to me,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 7: we need to step back, take a break, do some
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 7: real thoughtful deliberation and some environmental, more environmental impacts. And,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 7: you know, think about these, these bigger things. So, That's
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 7: what the group no765. org is all about.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, say that name again for people that live in
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: this area and they want to check this thing out.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're definitely getting a biased perspective, but tell
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: me the name of the group.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's called no765.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: Org. No765. org. Yeah, I don't think they're going to articulate
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: the yes side, but I guess the yes side is
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: someone's going to make a bunch of money and some
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: dudes far away are getting some power. So this will
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: tell you the local side.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 7: I think if you go onto the website, though, and
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 7: start looking around on there, that there is some discussion
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 7: about need for power, understanding that there needs to be transmission.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 7: It just becomes a question of whether this is the
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 7: right place or not.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, if you went through life, if you went
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: through life, if people in this country just always took
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: the attitude of, well, we need this, we need that,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't have nothing but concrete and roads. Yeah. At
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: this point, there would be nothing left. We're at a
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: point in our nation's history. I always talk about this.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: For a long time, we had wild places because we
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: hadn't gotten around to developing them all yet. And then
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: things shifted. And now we have wild places in nature
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: and wildlife habitat because people fight for it. Like our
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: focus used to be fighting to conquer it. Now the
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: focus has shifted. Now you've got people that fight to
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: preserve it. So, yeah, I get the whole we need
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: this and need that argument. If they always won, there
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be nothing left anywhere.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: All right, man.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on, Doug.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Doug.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: Digging that Grateful Dead deal you got on there. All right.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 4: Doug's got a shirt.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: You know, like Grateful Dead. What do you normally see
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: inside the Grateful Dead head thing with the skull cut off?
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 4: It's a lightning bolt.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: There's normally a lightning bolt in there? Well, Doug's shirt
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: is the Great Lakes.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 4: Kind of.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: Heavily focused on Wisconsin. It's like, yeah. Nice shirt, Doug.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 7: Michigan's on there too, Steve.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit of it is. Where I grew
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: up is, which is cool.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: All right, Doug. Love you.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I love you, too.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks, man.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: Our last segment is sports ball fights. Football season is
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: here and we are going to predict the winner of
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: some games this season. But we're not basing this on
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: talent or coaching or home field advantage like every other analyst.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: We are picking based on the merits of their animal mascots.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring today's segment. This week, Steve
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: is going to predict how it would go. If a
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: Cardinal fought a Bronco, just like is what is going
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: to happen here in week seven of the NFL season, right? Steve,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: who would win that skirmish?
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: I don't want to handle it that way.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it should be how many Cardinals it
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: would take.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: No, I don't want to handle it that way.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: We did this before, and I was wrong. I'm not
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: going to talk about between a Cardinal and a Bronco. Okay.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Who would win a fight?
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: That's stupid. Okay.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: Good feedback.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just not what I wanna do. I'm more
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: interested in who should win. Who should win.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 5: From a moral perspective?
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: Moral and otherwise. So as I painted out before, when
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: I had to deal with something with these Broncos before,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: when I, like I know a Bronco can mean different
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: things to different people. Hell, some people think it's a vehicle.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: OJ Simpson.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: When I think of, yes, there's one, for instance, the
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: late OJ. Did he get in trouble? Um, A time
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: or two. The kind of bronco I'm talking about is a,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: is a feral horse, which is causing enormous, as I
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned before, causing major wildlife issues in the arid West
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: where we have some poorly crafted legislation that has made
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: wild horse, feral horse management ineffective and our hands are
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: tied and we're losing native wildlife to feral domestics.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: And that's when I think of Broncos, that's what comes
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: to mind.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't think they should win nothing.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: You're always going to pick against the Broncos.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 3: Always.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: Always, always, always.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: I don't care what. Maybe there's some situation. Like if
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: you were like, who should win? Like famine?
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 3: Global famine?
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Or the Broncos?
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: Poachers.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 5: Poachers or Broncos.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: about Cardinals and Broncos. Here's why a Cardinal should win.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: I like to do a thing. When I'm sitting in
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: the turkey woods, in the morning at daybreak, so it's dark,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: just coming on daylight, and like the world, this is springtime,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: late April, early May, like the world is waking up.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: If you're a birdman, you don't need an aid to
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: know what I'm going to say, but if you're not
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: a birdman, download Merlin, the Merlin app, and turn it on.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to make, I don't care where you live. Well,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: maybe I do a little bit. Most places that you live,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: the first thing that's going to happen in the morning,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: before it's even light, when there's just like in the
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: cold gray light of dawn, the first thing you're going
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: to hear, it's a cardinal. He's always there ready to
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: start the day. He's an early riser. He's got a
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: beautiful call. If you got your app open, your bird
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: ID app, and you're just sitting there watching it, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting,
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: he's going to beat the crows.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: Now, crows will beat a turkey, but no one beats
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: a cardinal. Yeah.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: And that means that there's a dead loved one nearby,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: I think. That's what they say when you see a cardinal.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: Boy.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: Way to bring this down. Brow that down. Well, talking
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: about cardinals.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: Now i gotta check dude i was trying to paint
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: a beautiful picture yeah keep going cardinals dead love there's
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: grandpa just flew by well that's kind of sweet that's
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: cool i like that okay we're back in.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 5: On now i'm back a red cardinal especially shortly after
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 5: a funeral or during a difficult moment is often interpreted
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 5: as a sign a departed family member or friend is
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 5: nearby oh.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: I love that i thought there was like a body
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 4: behind a tree trunk or something yeah i thought.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: He's going dark you know Like, I just stepped on
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: something squishy and I don't like it. That's not what
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: he's talking about. Just being greeted in the morning in
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: the turkey woods by that cardinal, just ambitious. And they're beautiful.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: Compare that to some bronco drinking out of some dried
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: up water hole, stepping over the dead bodies of big
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: desert bighorns. What do you think ought to win?
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: You're going to be in a real pickle when we
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: got Colts versus Broncos. Then what?
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 4: Tie it.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, but I'm not going to spoil it.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: So that's who needs to win this. I'm not telling
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: you who's going to win. A Cardinal needs to win. Okay.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 3: Go Cardinals.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: It's just a better creature.
• 1:46:11
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  Speaker 1: All right, everybody. See you next week on the news show.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back.