Latest / The Breakfast Club / Tonya Lewis Lee & Omari Maynard On The Black Maternal Mortality Crisis, The Power Of Birthing + More

Transcript

Tonya Lewis Lee & Omari Maynard On The Black Maternal Mortality Crisis, The Power Of Birthing + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wait that answer in the morning Breakfast Club, Yep, Charlemagne
0:05
Speaker 1: and God Angela ye Envy had to go for a second.
0:08
Speaker 1: But we have from very special guests here. We have
0:10
Speaker 1: Tanya Lewis Lee and a Marii Maynard from the Aftershock documentary.
0:15
Speaker 1: Good morning, how a y'all? Good morning. What's happening all
0:19
Speaker 1: as well? Things are great, There's a lot of awesome
0:23
Speaker 1: conversation happening, especially you know, specifically with this month being
0:27
Speaker 1: Bipop Mental Health Month. But After Shocking itself is just
0:32
Speaker 1: such a dope film. I'm so excited that it's actually
0:35
Speaker 1: out now in a streaming on Hulu and just talk
0:39
Speaker 1: about it. They examined the maternal mortality rate definitely in America,
0:43
Speaker 1: definitely especially for black women too, And I think this
0:45
Speaker 1: is something we've discussed how that rate is so much
0:47
Speaker 1: higher than white women. Yeah, black women are dying at
0:51
Speaker 1: three to four times the rate of white women from
0:53
Speaker 1: childbirth complications. In New York City, it's eight to twelve
0:56
Speaker 1: times the rate of white women. And it is it
0:59
Speaker 1: is a crisis. It's a national crisis that people haven't
1:02
Speaker 1: been talking about. That's why I directed and produced the
1:06
Speaker 1: film so that we could have a conversation. I'm so
1:09
Speaker 1: grateful to Amari for allowing us to come into his
1:13
Speaker 1: life at a very difficult time and open himself up
1:17
Speaker 1: to the cameras so that everybody can understand what it's
1:21
Speaker 1: like for a family to lose someone from childbirth complications
1:26
Speaker 1: and what it takes for someone to pick themselves up
1:29
Speaker 1: and not only heal for themselves, but also try to
1:32
Speaker 1: heal the community, because that's really what Amar's doing. Man.
1:35
Speaker 1: We've spoken to Dulah's on this show before. We have
1:38
Speaker 1: our good friend late them and I know at one
1:40
Speaker 1: point you guys did get a midwife, right, so can
1:43
Speaker 1: you talk about what that process was like and what
1:45
Speaker 1: you learn when you did get a midwife. So for us,
1:48
Speaker 1: we have a very our family dynamic is very unique
1:52
Speaker 1: in the fact that Shawnee SI's excuse me, Shamani's mom,
1:56
Speaker 1: she's been in the midwife Medwi free community for decades.
2:02
Speaker 1: She's been doing a lot of work specifically around maternal
2:06
Speaker 1: health in the darker side of it. So we knew
2:09
Speaker 1: about the need for a midwife. We knew about the
2:12
Speaker 1: need to have a duela. So for both of our children,
2:15
Speaker 1: we had a midwife and duel at present, and we
2:18
Speaker 1: knew what the warning signs were and what to do,
2:21
Speaker 1: you know, So that in itself was just amazing for us.
2:25
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that a lot of people
2:28
Speaker 1: don't know that they have birthing options and they have
2:30
Speaker 1: people to support. The greatest thing about it, though, is that,
2:34
Speaker 1: you know, once we're in the delivery room once where
2:36
Speaker 1: I'm about to bring this new child into the world,
2:38
Speaker 1: we have people to advocate for you, you know, and
2:41
Speaker 1: those experiences they kind of get very nuanced. And the
2:44
Speaker 1: fact that you know, doctor's nurses, they actually a lot
2:47
Speaker 1: of questions and a lot of things that you're not
2:50
Speaker 1: really processing as a father and as a mother specifically
2:53
Speaker 1: as a mother, you know, So just having those advocates
2:56
Speaker 1: in the rooms, it's a beautiful thing. No. I love
2:58
Speaker 1: the fact that y'all did after shot from perspective of,
3:01
Speaker 1: you know, two men, because that's one of the reasons
3:04
Speaker 1: I got a duela, you know, we went and got
3:07
Speaker 1: laid them because I saw Charles Johnson. Familiar with Charles Johnson.
3:10
Speaker 1: I saw Charles Johnson on CNN back in the day,
3:12
Speaker 1: and I just could not imagine, you know, something like
3:16
Speaker 1: that happening in my second daughter was born because of
3:18
Speaker 1: an emergency c section, Like you were born a month
3:20
Speaker 1: earlier and you know, got rushed to the hospital, did
3:23
Speaker 1: to c section, and that could have went, you know,
3:26
Speaker 1: either way. And it's from that point on, I just
3:27
Speaker 1: had like such an anxiety surrounding child birthday. I never
3:31
Speaker 1: wanted to be in there alone, without having a duela. Well,
3:34
Speaker 1: it's interesting you bring that up, anxiety, because I think
3:37
Speaker 1: that unfortunately in this country and given this crisis, that
3:41
Speaker 1: there is anxiety and fear. And I really think that
3:45
Speaker 1: we need to shift the culture because birthing should be
3:48
Speaker 1: an exciting, empowering time for a woman and for her family,
3:53
Speaker 1: and it should not be anxiety producing. I mean, we've
3:57
Speaker 1: been birthdaying since forever. That's why we're all here. And
4:00
Speaker 1: I think part of the issue is that we have,
4:04
Speaker 1: you know, as technology has advanced, we have moved into
4:08
Speaker 1: more of, as a Helena Grant says in the film,
4:11
Speaker 1: a technocratic, patriarchal model of birthing, which can create some issues.
4:17
Speaker 1: So I liken it to farm to table that that
4:20
Speaker 1: now we've got to come back a little bit back
4:23
Speaker 1: and look at what the midwives did back in the
4:26
Speaker 1: past and and and use a little bit of what
4:28
Speaker 1: they've done and a little bit of the medical technocratic model,
4:32
Speaker 1: but not not the way it is, because that's really
4:35
Speaker 1: what's killing us. We should not be afraid to be
4:38
Speaker 1: giving birth. It should be a powerful time for a woman.
4:42
Speaker 1: Helena Grant also talks about how when a woman is
4:44
Speaker 1: birthing a child, she's not just birthing that child, She's
4:47
Speaker 1: birthing a mother. And so the process of labor, Yes,
4:52
Speaker 1: it can hurt, it can be painful, but you know,
4:54
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be afraid of that either, that that is
4:57
Speaker 1: a process that we go through so that we are
5:00
Speaker 1: powerful mothers. When you go through the process of birthing,
5:02
Speaker 1: you know, you can do anything, you know. So I
5:05
Speaker 1: just I just hope that as we have conversations around
5:09
Speaker 1: the issues of birthing in America, especially with black women,
5:13
Speaker 1: that we're looking for a space to eradicate the fear
5:17
Speaker 1: and find the empowerment part of birthing. I agree with
5:21
Speaker 1: you one hundred percent. It's just so difficult when you
5:23
Speaker 1: go in these hospitals that a majority white drivens, a
5:26
Speaker 1: lot of white nurses, a lot of white doctors. They're
5:28
Speaker 1: not looking at you know, I remember one time for
5:30
Speaker 1: our third child, like they didn't even have any epidurals,
5:34
Speaker 1: like literally in a hospital and they were just like, well,
5:37
Speaker 1: baby's right now, you can just push it out. And
5:38
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, like, how do you post to
5:41
Speaker 1: react to something like well, yeah, no. And I completely
5:43
Speaker 1: agree with you, And I think a Maori raised the
5:46
Speaker 1: idea of choice and birthing right. I think that I
5:49
Speaker 1: think we can start thinking about the fact that we
5:51
Speaker 1: can we can be consumers here, you know, if we
5:54
Speaker 1: can and find the right situation for you. If you
5:57
Speaker 1: want to birth in a hospital with a doctor, just
6:00
Speaker 1: with the doctor, you can do that. But if you
6:02
Speaker 1: want to bring a dula and into that, that's great too.
6:06
Speaker 1: You could birth in a birthing center with a midwife
6:08
Speaker 1: and adula, maybe without an eperdura, with that in mind
6:12
Speaker 1: that you're going into that process. People can birth at
6:14
Speaker 1: home with a midwife and adula and a doctor on
6:17
Speaker 1: call if that's what makes them feel comfortable. And I
6:20
Speaker 1: really think it's about finding the right environment and the
6:23
Speaker 1: right support around a woman. It should be woman centered
6:28
Speaker 1: and she needs to figure out what she needs around her.
6:31
Speaker 1: Because I agree, like, you don't want to be in
6:33
Speaker 1: a hospital necessarily where there's a bunch of white people
6:36
Speaker 1: looking at you like you're crazy, don't really believe you
6:39
Speaker 1: when you say you're having pain, you're asking for things,
6:42
Speaker 1: and they're you know, discounting you. That that is not
6:45
Speaker 1: the type of environment anyone wants to be giving birth in.
6:48
Speaker 1: And sometimes it feels like, and you point this out too,
6:50
Speaker 1: it's like the midwife or the dula against the doctor
6:54
Speaker 1: and it's not like they're working together in tandem, right,
6:58
Speaker 1: you know, and they should be. I mean, every other
7:00
Speaker 1: industrialize the nation has midwives integrated into women's healthcare so
7:06
Speaker 1: that women interface with the midwife first if there is
7:11
Speaker 1: a problem, because midwives to separate from dulahs. Midwives are
7:15
Speaker 1: conitions that can do just about anything a doctor can
7:18
Speaker 1: except for cut you the obi guinies are surgeons. They
7:22
Speaker 1: are surgeons, we need them, they're important, but they're ready
7:26
Speaker 1: to do surgery. Midwives are there to hang out and
7:31
Speaker 1: take the time, allow your body to do what it's
7:34
Speaker 1: supposed to do. And if they're working together, I think
7:37
Speaker 1: that's the best, the best situation so that if a
7:40
Speaker 1: complication occurs, you've got the doctor right there who is
7:43
Speaker 1: ready to come in but if we're not working together
7:46
Speaker 1: and in tandem, then it becomes a fight between the
7:49
Speaker 1: power who is more powerful, the doctor or the midwife.
7:52
Speaker 1: But we need to figure out how to work together.
7:54
Speaker 1: And even when it comes to c sections, you've spoken
7:57
Speaker 1: about how that's been on the rise. I think like
7:59
Speaker 1: seventy percent more c sections are happening. Why are hospitals
8:03
Speaker 1: so quick to be like, you got to get a
8:04
Speaker 1: C section more money? Yeah, yeah, well that's what it
8:07
Speaker 1: is essentially, um and they so we talk about in
8:11
Speaker 1: the film the rates of C sections about sixty percent, Um,
8:14
Speaker 1: sixty percent of c sections are not needed, you know.
8:17
Speaker 1: So but like Charlemagne just said, Um, it's about fifteen
8:22
Speaker 1: thousand dollars you get for a vaginal birth and it
8:25
Speaker 1: takes about eight to twelve hours right to go through
8:27
Speaker 1: that whole process. But a C section you make doubled
8:30
Speaker 1: the amount of money. It takes about forty five minutes,
8:33
Speaker 1: you know, and it's scheduled, so a doctor, if you
8:36
Speaker 1: want to go game or dinner, you can go do
8:39
Speaker 1: that exactly. And that's what I was just about to say.
8:41
Speaker 1: In the film. It's so ill because like there's a
8:45
Speaker 1: there's a part of it where you know, like the
8:48
Speaker 1: or the nurses and doctors are you know, in the
8:51
Speaker 1: in the you know, the forum, and they're talking about
8:55
Speaker 1: the schedule c sections. But it's not they're not talking
8:58
Speaker 1: about they're not talking to people by about by their name.
9:02
Speaker 1: It's all number x Y two five, seven eight, schedule
9:06
Speaker 1: a C section for this time x y three seventy five.
9:10
Speaker 1: She's you know, got already had a C section, so
9:12
Speaker 1: she needs another. Like so it's it's really it's a
9:16
Speaker 1: really monetized model where it's almost similar to the prison system,
9:23
Speaker 1: where everybody kind of has this serial number, you know,
9:25
Speaker 1: and and that's how people are looked at, not necessarily
9:30
Speaker 1: as people, but as commodities. I think God for information,
9:34
Speaker 1: and I thank God for you know, laid them because
9:36
Speaker 1: like I can still hear the fear in my wife's
9:39
Speaker 1: voice when she had to think about having a C
9:41
Speaker 1: section for the second time, you know that after she
9:44
Speaker 1: had to one for our second child. They told her
9:46
Speaker 1: when she got pregnant again, she's gonna have to have
9:49
Speaker 1: it was already scheduled and everything, And just a random
9:52
Speaker 1: conversation with with Latham and I just asked her and
9:55
Speaker 1: she was like no, she doesn't have to have a
9:56
Speaker 1: C section, And so that's when she first got with Latham,
9:59
Speaker 1: and Latham walks through the process and she ended up
10:00
Speaker 1: having the child. That is really amazing she was able
10:07
Speaker 1: to do that, and like you say, she had the
10:09
Speaker 1: support of someone who was like, hold on a second,
10:11
Speaker 1: we can do this, because without that support, she's being
10:15
Speaker 1: pushed into having that that that C section, which happens
10:18
Speaker 1: to too many women. Now, another thing that you guys
10:20
Speaker 1: discuss is what happens after a woman gives birth. Right,
10:24
Speaker 1: what's going on with going back to the doctor, getting
10:26
Speaker 1: checked up on and Amari? I know for you you
10:29
Speaker 1: feel that that death could have been prevented. Yeah, most definitely,
10:33
Speaker 1: most definitely. Um. Just throughout the entire process, she's Shamani
10:39
Speaker 1: was healthy, she was strong. We tried to have a
10:42
Speaker 1: vback as well, the vaginal birth after C section. Unfortunately
10:46
Speaker 1: it didn't happen. But when we left the hospital, I
10:49
Speaker 1: left with my daughter, let me excuse me, my son
10:52
Speaker 1: and my partner, you know, so I thought everything was fine.
10:55
Speaker 1: And the subsequent days, you know, she was complaining about
10:59
Speaker 1: chess pain, she was complaining and about having shortness of breath.
11:02
Speaker 1: She was claimed, Um, complaining about not being able to walk,
11:06
Speaker 1: you know, and do these certain things. And like I said,
11:09
Speaker 1: you know, our family has been in this maternal space
11:12
Speaker 1: for a while. So her mom was like, this sounds
11:14
Speaker 1: like a pulmonary embolism. You know. We went to the
11:17
Speaker 1: doctor three times within that two week period to go,
11:23
Speaker 1: you know, to go let them know, like this is
11:25
Speaker 1: the problem, these are the issues, this is how she's feeling.
11:28
Speaker 1: And every time he went, because of the fact that
11:30
Speaker 1: Shamani's scheduled visit for her check up was six weeks out,
11:34
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't look at her. They looked at
11:38
Speaker 1: this the C section that she had, for the cliffs.
11:41
Speaker 1: They talked about we went to have a visit for
11:44
Speaker 1: um Kari and what his needs are. But every time
11:47
Speaker 1: we went out there, we were advocating and advocating and advocating.
11:50
Speaker 1: It was still this thing where it's because of the
11:52
Speaker 1: fact that it's not her schedule time exactly. It's horrible
11:58
Speaker 1: because many of these deaths happened postpartum, many of these
12:03
Speaker 1: deaths and the fact that you know, she had an
12:06
Speaker 1: appointment six weeks out and no, and they're like, oh no,
12:09
Speaker 1: We've got to wait for that six weeks. It's insane,
12:12
Speaker 1: It's insane. You know, women should be checked on a
12:16
Speaker 1: few days after a week after. They should be seen,
12:20
Speaker 1: especially after having major surgery like a C section. And
12:25
Speaker 1: again that's one of those things midwives do. You know,
12:28
Speaker 1: they will come and check you several you know, right
12:30
Speaker 1: after having birth. Six weeks out is way too long,
12:34
Speaker 1: and I think we need a cultural shift in that
12:36
Speaker 1: women should be seen much sooner before that. Now, Tanya,
12:41
Speaker 1: for you, this is I know you've produced before, but
12:43
Speaker 1: this is a directorial debut for you. So what was
12:47
Speaker 1: your passion behind this and how was it for you? Fielming?
12:50
Speaker 1: Because I know emotionally you get attached and I know
12:54
Speaker 1: they were difficult times, you know, because clearly this is
12:57
Speaker 1: not something that's easy. Yeah, you know, I had been
13:01
Speaker 1: working raising awareness about the high rates of infant mortality
13:05
Speaker 1: in the United States. I started that back in two
13:07
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, traveled the country talking about infants. You know,
13:12
Speaker 1: we have the same disparity as in maternal health. Black
13:15
Speaker 1: babies diet three to four times the rate of white
13:17
Speaker 1: babies in this country before their first birthday. I found
13:21
Speaker 1: myself immersed in a world of women's health, really I'm
13:25
Speaker 1: just an advocate because I know how hard it is
13:27
Speaker 1: for us as women, as people in general to access
13:31
Speaker 1: our best healthy lives here in this country. And I
13:33
Speaker 1: believe that health is everything. It's the foundation and basis
13:37
Speaker 1: of everything that we do. And while I was talking,
13:41
Speaker 1: I would go and talk to groups of women, and
13:43
Speaker 1: you know, inevitably someone would tell me about someone who
13:46
Speaker 1: passed away from childbirth complications. And actually the first one
13:51
Speaker 1: that I knew about was a woman named Tatiana odin
13:54
Speaker 1: French because her partner was someone that I had or
13:58
Speaker 1: her husband was someone that I had gone to school with,
14:00
Speaker 1: and he called me and told me about her passing.
14:02
Speaker 1: So had been hearing about all of these deaths and
14:07
Speaker 1: wanted to tell a story about it. I wanted to
14:11
Speaker 1: raise awareness about it so that we can do something.
14:15
Speaker 1: I think if we don't have the conversation about what's happening,
14:18
Speaker 1: we can't fix it. And I really believe that we
14:21
Speaker 1: can make for better birth outcomes. I really believe that,
14:25
Speaker 1: So that's why I wanted to make the film. And
14:28
Speaker 1: when Shannie Annamari put out on social media and invitation
14:35
Speaker 1: for a celebration of Shamani's life along with a conversation
14:39
Speaker 1: with the community about what was happening with black maternal health.
14:44
Speaker 1: We reached out to film and they agreed, and that
14:47
Speaker 1: really began the film that you see as Aftershock, and
14:51
Speaker 1: you know, it was it is hard. It is hard
14:56
Speaker 1: subject matter. And you know, I didn't know Amari, Shawnee
15:01
Speaker 1: and Bruce, and you know, you go in obviously with
15:04
Speaker 1: deep humility, deep empathy and um. But they really wanted
15:08
Speaker 1: to have this conversation, right Uh, and so it became
15:12
Speaker 1: very collaborative. Uh. And it was really about where where
15:15
Speaker 1: they led. We followed. Uh, if you're good with it,
15:18
Speaker 1: I'm good with it. There's something you don't want to do,
15:20
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. I'm you know, uh and UM,
15:24
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's been a really wonderful process.
15:27
Speaker 1: It's been amazing getting to know Shamani and Amber through Amari,
15:32
Speaker 1: Shawnee and Bruce. They were beautiful women. It's clear they were.
15:36
Speaker 1: They were beautiful, loving, um, active women, and I just
15:44
Speaker 1: really wanted people to get to know them a little
15:47
Speaker 1: bit and I want people to feel empowered. So UM,
15:51
Speaker 1: you know, you do the best you can to to
15:54
Speaker 1: try to make some change in this this crazy world.
15:56
Speaker 1: Because I really believe we can change these outcomes. How
15:59
Speaker 1: was the press for you making the film? Um? It
16:05
Speaker 1: was it was enlightening. Um. So we did after Shock
16:11
Speaker 1: Hour After Shock event on December nineteen for Shimani's birthday.
16:15
Speaker 1: So this is two months after she passed. So like,
16:18
Speaker 1: during that that two month time frame was the darkest
16:21
Speaker 1: time of my life. Honestly, Um, it was filled with
16:25
Speaker 1: my deepest grief, sadness, just insecurities, Like all these things
16:30
Speaker 1: started coming up and me being able to process it was.
16:36
Speaker 1: It was difficult. But what I started to do was painting.
16:38
Speaker 1: I started at painting. I honestly, I spent two months
16:40
Speaker 1: in my basement painting by myself, trying to figure out
16:44
Speaker 1: this new life that I was gonna have to lead.
16:47
Speaker 1: So when Tanya and Paula came in introduced his film
16:50
Speaker 1: to us, I was like, NA, I'm not doing this,
16:52
Speaker 1: this is this is I'm not at my best exactly.
16:55
Speaker 1: You know what I'm going I'm going through things, you know,
16:58
Speaker 1: going through things I've never been through before. But after
17:01
Speaker 1: having a conversation with Seannee and you know her just
17:04
Speaker 1: kind of identifying what the opportunity was, what the possibilities
17:07
Speaker 1: could be and just the fact that, you know, regardless
17:10
Speaker 1: of where the film went, at least we would have
17:12
Speaker 1: something documented about our family so that our kids could watch,
17:17
Speaker 1: you know. So at that point I was I was
17:20
Speaker 1: on board. I was ready, but you know, it's a documentary,
17:24
Speaker 1: so you just you don't know, you know. So it's like,
17:27
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do, I don't know
17:29
Speaker 1: how I'm gonna be. But it really to Poland and
17:35
Speaker 1: this is really the greatness of Paula and Tanya and
17:40
Speaker 1: how they allowed us to be ourselves. They allowed us
17:45
Speaker 1: to process in whatever way that we wanted to process,
17:48
Speaker 1: and like she said, like Tanniya said, they gave us
17:50
Speaker 1: space when we needed it. And at the same time,
17:52
Speaker 1: you know, they knew that we were going to do
17:54
Speaker 1: the work because we are advocates and activists you know
17:58
Speaker 1: at heart, So the work was going to come. But
18:00
Speaker 1: it was really just about how and when emotionally and mentally,
18:05
Speaker 1: you know, how else did you process the trauma of
18:07
Speaker 1: this event other than the painting? Yeah, So thankfully I've
18:11
Speaker 1: got a dope community. Um. So it as soon as
18:15
Speaker 1: she passed, like I had grief counselors. Beautiful when SHALMANI
18:20
Speaker 1: was when you know, she was when she was here,
18:22
Speaker 1: we'd go to a couple of therapy, you know, Solah
18:26
Speaker 1: I was. I was on it. I was on it.
18:28
Speaker 1: I mean not by choice, to be honest. You know,
18:31
Speaker 1: it was something that Shamani was pushing. But you know
18:33
Speaker 1: I went once and it went twice and then obviously
18:35
Speaker 1: after a while I saw the value in it because
18:37
Speaker 1: it just made the relationship great. But after she passed
18:40
Speaker 1: a step, I kept going to the same therapist UM
18:43
Speaker 1: and then like I said, I had family friends coming in,
18:46
Speaker 1: you know, to help out around the house and provide pamps, diapers,
18:50
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that that you would need
18:53
Speaker 1: UM on a on a day to day basis. But
18:55
Speaker 1: in order for me to process my grief, painting was one.
18:59
Speaker 1: But it turned into being this kind of mind, body,
19:04
Speaker 1: spirit training where I was running every day, I was
19:07
Speaker 1: working out, I was painting, I was talking to my therapists,
19:11
Speaker 1: I was talking to family and friends, just different ways
19:14
Speaker 1: to deal with the pain, deal with the grief and
19:17
Speaker 1: process it in a way that was positive. And like
19:19
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I really try to push now,
19:22
Speaker 1: especially to men going through anything, because we all go
19:25
Speaker 1: through our own pain. We all go through our own traumas, right,
19:29
Speaker 1: but it's so important that we speak about it, that
19:32
Speaker 1: we communicate it, and that we you know, we do
19:34
Speaker 1: the things right because it's always and this is an ongoing,
19:38
Speaker 1: never ending process. I'm gonna be going through this for
19:40
Speaker 1: the rest of my life, you know. So it is
19:43
Speaker 1: really making sure that I'm being very intentional about how
19:47
Speaker 1: I want to move my energy and use my energy.
19:50
Speaker 1: And these for me, running, painting, working out, talking, those
19:55
Speaker 1: are the things that works for me. You know, it's
19:57
Speaker 1: different for everybody. But like again, that's what I would
19:59
Speaker 1: push Yeah, when I hit when I hear brothers like
20:01
Speaker 1: you tell your story, brothers like you know, Charles Johns
20:04
Speaker 1: telling this story, I'm just like y'all way stronger than me,
20:07
Speaker 1: because there's no way I don't even know if I
20:10
Speaker 1: could even have that conversation because I don't even know
20:13
Speaker 1: when it would hit me that this actually happened, you
20:16
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And then you see your child
20:18
Speaker 1: every day, every day you're thinking about your queen. I
20:24
Speaker 1: would push it back a little and say that it's
20:30
Speaker 1: I honestly see you don't feel that way. I feel
20:32
Speaker 1: like you whatever you're given is what you're given, right,
20:36
Speaker 1: and you know God doesn't make mistakes, right, we all
20:39
Speaker 1: like and then, like I said earlier, we all have
20:41
Speaker 1: our own griefs, right, minds might be a little bit
20:44
Speaker 1: deeper than than others. But when it all comes down
20:47
Speaker 1: to it, if you're gonna be there for your child,
20:49
Speaker 1: you're gonna be there for yourself, You're gonna be there
20:51
Speaker 1: for your family. You gotta do the work, you know.
20:53
Speaker 1: And it's really that simple. So once you kind of
20:55
Speaker 1: break it down in that in that way, it's it's
20:58
Speaker 1: honestly like, you know, all right, what's next? What I
21:01
Speaker 1: gotta do? You know, it's it's you know, get down
21:03
Speaker 1: and lay down, and you know, you gotta you gotta
21:06
Speaker 1: make things happen, especially you know, just being in New
21:08
Speaker 1: York and especially trying to raise your child like I've got.
21:11
Speaker 1: I've got three children, you know, and they got to eat,
21:14
Speaker 1: they got to learn, they got to do all the
21:16
Speaker 1: things they have to put them in the best position possible.
21:18
Speaker 1: So um again, and this is again, I always big
21:22
Speaker 1: up my community because this isn't something that I could
21:25
Speaker 1: have done by myself. Right, you definitely need people in
21:28
Speaker 1: conjunction and partnerships and to take the kids off your
21:32
Speaker 1: hands in the days where you're just like, yeah, I
21:34
Speaker 1: just don't got it today, you know. But um, And
21:37
Speaker 1: that's why I really try to do my best to
21:40
Speaker 1: make sure that I speak to fathers who are going
21:42
Speaker 1: through the things that I've gone through, because they don't
21:45
Speaker 1: A lot of them just don't have that same support
21:47
Speaker 1: system and they just need to know that, you know,
21:50
Speaker 1: even if I'm not necessarily physically there, they can call
21:53
Speaker 1: somebody at the very least and say, Yo, this is
21:56
Speaker 1: what I'm going through. I need to emote, you know.
21:58
Speaker 1: So that's that's what we're doing. That's why I respect
22:02
Speaker 1: I respect it coming from you because I know you've
22:03
Speaker 1: allowed yourself to feel Yeah, you're not numbing, you know
22:07
Speaker 1: at all, not at all. But like you and Bruce also,
22:10
Speaker 1: what type of relationship. Yeah, so Bruce is my guy. Man.
22:13
Speaker 1: I love Bruce. I love Bruce Man Bruce he Um.
22:17
Speaker 1: He pushes me in ways that nobody else can because
22:19
Speaker 1: of the fact that we've been through the same thing,
22:22
Speaker 1: um and and have shared the same experiences and are
22:25
Speaker 1: going through this path together, you know. So you know,
22:29
Speaker 1: me and him, me and him, we speak all the time,
22:32
Speaker 1: you know, and I know that, you know, when he's
22:35
Speaker 1: doing his thing in his spaces, he's advocating for me,
22:37
Speaker 1: and I'm doing the same exact thing, you know, because
22:40
Speaker 1: of the fact that you know, he's just he's he's
22:43
Speaker 1: one of those men who, like Charlemagne said, is allowing
22:47
Speaker 1: himselves to feel right. Um, I always say that in
22:51
Speaker 1: your deepest grief you gain your greatest growth, you know. So,
22:55
Speaker 1: and and with Bruce, like, I don't know if I
22:58
Speaker 1: could have went through what Bruce went through, you know,
23:01
Speaker 1: with with Amber and how the hospitals treated her. Um.
23:06
Speaker 1: But again, you know, so I watch him and see
23:09
Speaker 1: what he's doing and see how his Savor Rose Foundation
23:12
Speaker 1: is just doing awesome things and how he's really servicing
23:14
Speaker 1: the community in real ways, you know. And again, you know,
23:18
Speaker 1: when you have brothers like that who have that power
23:20
Speaker 1: to you know, just shift and do the work you
23:24
Speaker 1: know you got. You gotta big up that man, and
23:26
Speaker 1: you gotta humble yourself and just let them know that
23:29
Speaker 1: they all loved you know. What can you do to
23:32
Speaker 1: advocate for yourself? Right? What would you recommend to people?
23:35
Speaker 1: If a woman a family are dealing with a complicated childbirth,
23:39
Speaker 1: they know something's wrong. The hospital is not being responsive,
23:42
Speaker 1: the doctors aren't doing what they're supposed to do. What
23:44
Speaker 1: can you do? You can you have options? Felice. So
23:51
Speaker 1: in the film, there was a sister name is Felicia.
23:54
Speaker 1: She went and had a birth at a birthing center.
23:59
Speaker 1: But she was a ray. Yeah, I think thirty four.
24:03
Speaker 1: She was at the end, you know, and she was
24:04
Speaker 1: going to the doctors, you know, to hospitals during this
24:08
Speaker 1: thirty five week time period, but she decided to shift
24:11
Speaker 1: because she felt like the need wasn't there. So it's
24:13
Speaker 1: never too late, you know, it's never too late. I
24:16
Speaker 1: think that you know, to your to your question, I
24:18
Speaker 1: think that it's so important that you understand and learn
24:22
Speaker 1: what's around you. Right. So, there are places that rate
24:25
Speaker 1: hospitals based off of the amount of C sections that
24:28
Speaker 1: they provide to their patrons. And as you say that,
24:31
Speaker 1: I just shout out to Kimberly Seals All. She's got
24:34
Speaker 1: the earth app that is. Yeah, so yeah, Kimberly is
24:38
Speaker 1: super dope. Earth app definitely um And for those who
24:42
Speaker 1: don't know where earth app is, it's basically like a
24:44
Speaker 1: YELP type of UM. Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, she's doing
24:50
Speaker 1: great work and she's so it is that platform that
24:52
Speaker 1: allows you know, people to rate the hospitals, you know,
24:57
Speaker 1: rate the doctors, rate the nurses and then those So
25:00
Speaker 1: that's what you should be doing exactly. Now, is there
25:03
Speaker 1: anything you can do right after everything happened that doctors
25:06
Speaker 1: didn't do what they could. This was preventable, right, So
25:09
Speaker 1: now what happens after that? Is this something that is
25:11
Speaker 1: now practiced? Like what can somebody do afterward? Um? Well,
25:17
Speaker 1: can I just say what I think Omari and Bruce
25:21
Speaker 1: are doing is amazing. I mean, what I've learned is
25:25
Speaker 1: from watching them is like griefus love. It's love for
25:28
Speaker 1: the people that have passed. It's love for the people
25:30
Speaker 1: who are still here. It's love for community. And what
25:34
Speaker 1: they are doing is activating a community. They've become activated.
25:39
Speaker 1: As Amari says, he is painting, He's painting portraits, paying
25:42
Speaker 1: it forward, reaching out to other men, being supportive. Bruce
25:47
Speaker 1: is trying to bring a birthing center to the Bronx.
25:49
Speaker 1: He's already has the womb bus that is going around
25:52
Speaker 1: the Bronx. And so while unfortunately there isn't a lot
25:58
Speaker 1: that one can do for those that are gone. There
26:00
Speaker 1: are things that people can do for those of us
26:02
Speaker 1: who are here. And you know, I see that every
26:05
Speaker 1: day and what saver A Rose and Aria is doing.
26:10
Speaker 1: But and I think I think all of us have
26:12
Speaker 1: a role to play. Quite frankly, I mean, we should
26:14
Speaker 1: be paying attention to what Bruce is doing. We should
26:16
Speaker 1: be supporting that we need more birthing centers in New
26:18
Speaker 1: York City. We should be paying attention to what's going
26:21
Speaker 1: on in the midwifree profession. We need more midwise, we
26:24
Speaker 1: need more black midwives, we need more black obi ginnies
26:28
Speaker 1: we do. We need more black doctors. And we need
26:31
Speaker 1: to be having the conversation so that we can all
26:34
Speaker 1: figure out how do we make it better for all
26:37
Speaker 1: of us because birthing is critically important. Mothers are critically important,
26:43
Speaker 1: we are Maternal health and infant health is the marker
26:47
Speaker 1: of a health of a nation. And if Black women
26:50
Speaker 1: are not doing well, that means we are not doing
26:53
Speaker 1: well as an Asian. So we have to figure out
26:55
Speaker 1: how to how to fix it. Absolutely, so where do
26:59
Speaker 1: they can? You have to shock it after Shock is
27:02
Speaker 1: streaming right now on Hulu, and so we hope a
27:05
Speaker 1: lot of people go out and check it out. And
27:07
Speaker 1: what do y'all hope to What do y'all hope this project? Does?
27:12
Speaker 1: You know? I hope that the film after Shock, as
27:14
Speaker 1: I said, I hope it's a conversation starter. I hope
27:16
Speaker 1: people watch it and talk about it. I hope people
27:20
Speaker 1: debate it. You know, if if they look at well
27:23
Speaker 1: Felicia had an amazing birth and a birthing center, you know,
27:26
Speaker 1: talk about how you feel about the idea of birthing
27:29
Speaker 1: and a birthing center versus a hospital. Talk about what
27:32
Speaker 1: does it mean to have a midwife? Learn more we
27:34
Speaker 1: do we cover the history of midwiffery in this country.
27:38
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the obstetric profession really is based
27:45
Speaker 1: on taking the economy of midwiffery out of the hands
27:50
Speaker 1: of black women, put it in the hands of white
27:53
Speaker 1: doctors and hospitals, putting us all into their hands into hospitals,
27:58
Speaker 1: and demonizing black midwives. We need to learn about our
28:02
Speaker 1: history so that we understand how we got here. Does
28:06
Speaker 1: it sharance cover midwives? Insurance does not cover midwives. We
28:10
Speaker 1: need laws, and the good news is that there are
28:12
Speaker 1: laws right now. There's the mom Nabus bills that are
28:16
Speaker 1: in Congress right now working their way through. As I said,
28:19
Speaker 1: many of these deaths are postpartum, So for women who
28:23
Speaker 1: are on Medicaid, we need Medicaid to extend for at
28:26
Speaker 1: least a year postpartum. Often women who are on Medicaid
28:29
Speaker 1: they get kicked off very soon after delivery. We need
28:32
Speaker 1: to keep them on. Midwives and dulas need to get paid,
28:36
Speaker 1: they need to be covered as well. So all of that,
28:40
Speaker 1: we need to figure out what's going on and vote,
28:42
Speaker 1: because voting matters who's in office. We look at right
28:46
Speaker 1: now what's happening with the reversal of Roe v. Wade,
28:49
Speaker 1: which is going to impact Black women more than it
28:51
Speaker 1: does anybody else, certainly when it comes to maternal deaths.
28:55
Speaker 1: There's a study that just said maternal death for Black
28:58
Speaker 1: women may go up thirty three scent because of the
29:01
Speaker 1: Stobs decision. And everybody who voted for Donald Trump twice,
29:05
Speaker 1: they're the ones that got us here. So um, we
29:09
Speaker 1: do have to vote and we do have to be
29:10
Speaker 1: active in our political system too. Speaking of that, can
29:13
Speaker 1: you touch on Lean's Law a little bit, because didn't
29:16
Speaker 1: just send it pass legislation to improve maternal and reproductive
29:19
Speaker 1: health in New York State last year. I'm not sure.
29:21
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with that one, do you know what? Okay,
29:26
Speaker 1: But I do like the fact that the documentary does
29:29
Speaker 1: offer some optimism and some solutions absolutely to move forward.
29:34
Speaker 1: And I do feel like and Amari, thank you so
29:36
Speaker 1: much for actually participating in agreeing to do the documentary
29:40
Speaker 1: and coming up here to spread the knowledge you know,
29:42
Speaker 1: in the word about it and being so strong for
29:44
Speaker 1: your family. Yeah, no, no problem, thank you for having us.
29:47
Speaker 1: You know, this is this is a moment. It's definitely
29:49
Speaker 1: a moment. And I really honestly feel like the film
29:53
Speaker 1: came out at a perfect time where people are listening,
29:56
Speaker 1: where people are trying to improve what people do understand
30:01
Speaker 1: that that we need to have, you know, not just
30:04
Speaker 1: a physical connection with people, but also create spiritual connections
30:08
Speaker 1: with them as well, you know. And when I say people,
30:11
Speaker 1: I'm talking about you know, here on our earth plane,
30:13
Speaker 1: but also our ancestors, you know, and um you know,
30:17
Speaker 1: so that's what we're here for and that's what we're doing.
30:19
Speaker 1: And just again, thank you, you know, um our foundation,
30:22
Speaker 1: the ARIA Foundation, you know, the ARIA and it self
30:26
Speaker 1: stands for the Advancement of Reproductive Innovation through autistry and healing,
30:30
Speaker 1: you know. So what we're doing is we're really trying
30:33
Speaker 1: to intentionally create spaces and places and talk about and
30:36
Speaker 1: have these conversations where they weren't being had before. Right
30:40
Speaker 1: when I go to rallies and do events, you know,
30:43
Speaker 1: there are a lot of duelers, There are a lot
30:44
Speaker 1: of midwives, there are a lot of nurses, and that's awesome, right,
30:47
Speaker 1: But it's so important that we really intentionally try to
30:51
Speaker 1: connect with people who don't know, we don't have the information,
30:54
Speaker 1: who who are oblivious, or who may not even really
30:58
Speaker 1: want to have birth, but it's just so in porrant
31:00
Speaker 1: that they know because there are other ways and you
31:03
Speaker 1: can advocate, there's other ways that you can help and
31:05
Speaker 1: be a part of this, I'm sure. And make sure
31:08
Speaker 1: you'll go watch the Aftershock documentary on Hulu. Amari man At,
31:12
Speaker 1: Tanya lewis Lee, thank you for joining us this morning.
31:15
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you appreciate it. It's the Breakfast Club