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Head of YouTube: The Scrappiest 'Lil YouTuber · Roast the Post Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: hi i'm jen and this is roast the post the story behind the bullet points
0:09
SPEAKER_01: this week we are looking at a job posting that had me hooked almost immediately
0:14
SPEAKER_01: the company is fascinating the mission is compelling and
0:17
SPEAKER_01: the opportunity isn't one you see every day but mixed in with all of
0:21
SPEAKER_01: that are some tired startup themes and
0:24
SPEAKER_01: a try hard energy that's giving steve buscemi how do you do fellow kids vibes is it
0:29
SPEAKER_01: a legitimately cool role or is it serving pick me girl let's find out
0:35
SPEAKER_01: when we roast this post all right
0:40
SPEAKER_00: so when you when you said hooked for a minute i was like oh did jen find a job post
0:45
SPEAKER_00: for a machine operator at a hook making factory is that what
0:49
SPEAKER_00: the whole like thing is i'm so excited
0:52
SPEAKER_00: because i don't know how hook making factories work but i want to learn
0:56
SPEAKER_01: this is this is i'm sorry to disappoint you this is not a job posting for
0:59
SPEAKER_01: a hook making factory i just got to put on my my glasses so i can actually read um
1:04
SPEAKER_01: but it's but it's a pretty good one so i'm going to start off with what we call
1:09
SPEAKER_01: the roasty profile the job title for this role is head of youtube
1:16
SPEAKER_01: and i just want to say i can say the brand here normally we don't name
1:19
SPEAKER_01: and shame right we're not going to say the name of
1:21
SPEAKER_01: the company that's actually hiring for the role but this role is specific
1:26
SPEAKER_01: to youtube type stuff the company is not youtube but you'll you'll
1:31
SPEAKER_01: so the job title is head of youtube the report to title is unknown
1:37
SPEAKER_01: the company size is 11 to 50 employees the industry is edtech
1:44
SPEAKER_01: so educational technology and children's digital media
1:47
SPEAKER_01: so what do they do they develop award-winning montessori inspired digital toys
1:53
SPEAKER_01: and educational apps that encourage creativity and imaginative play
1:57
SPEAKER_01: for young children
1:59
SPEAKER_01: head office location is toronto ontario canada
2:03
SPEAKER_01: the job location is toronto ontario canada the geographical operating area is global
2:09
SPEAKER_01: and the job type is full-time hybrid got it
2:15
SPEAKER_00: yeah i i'm very interested about this already because like head of youtube okay so
2:25
SPEAKER_00: for ed tech um especially children's ed tech it's like okay is this a product role
2:30
SPEAKER_00: or is this a marketing role i'm uh i'm very curious now
2:34
SPEAKER_01: well and it's interesting because when i saw the job title head
2:37
SPEAKER_01: of youtube i was like oh youtube is hiring a head
2:40
SPEAKER_01: of their company like that's what it sounds like right so the
2:43
SPEAKER_01: the title itself is confusing um but we'll we'll get
2:47
SPEAKER_01: into it here um several different categories within
2:51
SPEAKER_01: the job posting again it's not too long
2:55
SPEAKER_01: about the job we are looking for a youtube genius if you've built a youtube channel
3:01
SPEAKER_01: from scratch to hundreds of thousands of subscribers and are eager
3:05
SPEAKER_01: to do it again we want to meet you then it goes into about the company
3:10
SPEAKER_01: the company is on a mission to raise the next generation of creative thinkers we are
3:15
SPEAKER_01: the team behind
3:15
SPEAKER_01: the apple design award-winning something app i just called it something up
3:20
SPEAKER_01: because i don't want to tell you the name of it
3:23
SPEAKER_01: and were named one of time's 100 most influential companies
3:27
SPEAKER_01: of 2025 our award-winning digital toys and videos empower children to think outside
3:33
SPEAKER_01: the box dream big and explore their creativity in
3:36
SPEAKER_01: a mindful way we believe screen time can be thoughtful educational and just
3:42
SPEAKER_01: as imaginative as the toys we grew up playing with on the floors of our living rooms
3:48
SPEAKER_01: cue youtube the channel doesn't exist at scale yet that means you get to build it
3:54
SPEAKER_01: from the ground up that's either terrifying or
3:56
SPEAKER_01: the most exciting thing you've ever heard if it's
3:59
SPEAKER_01: the second one you might be our person the company is
4:02
SPEAKER_01: an equal opportunity employer committed to diversity
4:05
SPEAKER_01: and inclusion we encourage people of all races religions genders abilities
4:09
SPEAKER_01: and sexual orientations to apply
4:12
SPEAKER_01: we want the products we develop to reflect the diversity of the world we live in
4:16
SPEAKER_01: and it starts with our own team so i'm going to stop there does that what what does
4:22
SPEAKER_00: that how does that make you feel so they they they actually said
4:26
SPEAKER_00: in their job ad this is either terrifying or super exciting like verbatim they kind
4:31
SPEAKER_00: of said that
4:32
SPEAKER_01: yeah so again for for listeners and the studio audience we we read
4:37
SPEAKER_01: the job posting verbatim
4:38
SPEAKER_01: so that's that's cool i'm not riffing it's what it says yeah that's cool i mean uh
4:45
SPEAKER_00: so far they definitely have top marks from me on their employer branding
4:51
SPEAKER_00: and their narrative storytelling right like this is
4:56
SPEAKER_00: this is this is a job ad where you know if you're kind of into educational tech
5:01
SPEAKER_00: and you're into like you know apps as a product and that sort of like space
5:05
SPEAKER_00: of startups and tasks and whatever
5:08
SPEAKER_00: you'd probably be like oh i'm
5:10
SPEAKER_00: into this like i'm gonna pay attention you know contrast this with the one
5:13
SPEAKER_00: that we recorded two weeks ago from the ai recruiter
5:17
SPEAKER_00: where it was like two bullet points and the entire job ad was you know like less
5:23
SPEAKER_00: than a page and it didn't tell you anything meaningful
5:26
SPEAKER_00: about anything this is refreshing i like it
5:30
SPEAKER_01: i do like it i don't like that they're saying um
5:36
SPEAKER_01: that toy like screen time blah blah blah screen time is just as imaginative as
5:42
SPEAKER_01: the toys we grew up playing with on the floors of our living rooms like well no
5:48
SPEAKER_01: no they're not like that's not that's not the same thing like having having a child
5:53
SPEAKER_01: and seeing how he interacts differently with like straight up old school toy playing
5:59
SPEAKER_01: and then screen stuff like you can you can make educational videos and games
6:04
SPEAKER_01: and things like that but it's not the same but like kudos for trying
6:08
SPEAKER_01: to convince us otherwise um what i do like about this opening is
6:12
SPEAKER_01: that they mention they're uh an equal opportunity employer
6:16
SPEAKER_01: in that opening in the about the company so they're not waiting till the end
6:20
SPEAKER_01: to tack it on as like oh we need to tick this box and say
6:23
SPEAKER_01: that we are equal opportunity they've incorporated it into the job posting and
6:27
SPEAKER_01: then they explain why that's important to them so
6:31
SPEAKER_01: for me i was like this is great i love the way that they've done that you can do
6:35
SPEAKER_01: that you don't have to wait till the end like a job posting can have any structure
6:40
SPEAKER_01: and format you you want it to have so you don't have to follow a specific formula
6:44
SPEAKER_01: so i did like that yeah
6:47
SPEAKER_01: um and yeah this is you know the times 100 most influential companies
6:52
SPEAKER_01: of 2025 like they're they're growing they're recognized um it seems like
6:58
SPEAKER_01: an exciting opportunity so we go into about the role
7:02
SPEAKER_01: as our new head of youtube you will own the company's youtube channel end-to-end
7:08
SPEAKER_01: from strategy through execution this is a business leadership role as much as
7:13
SPEAKER_01: a strategic one you'll own channel strategy audience development content content
7:18
SPEAKER_01: planning publishing cadence analytics monetizing
7:21
SPEAKER_01: and long-term growth you'll work closely with our chief creative officer
7:25
SPEAKER_01: to translate the company's creative vision into content that performs and scales
7:31
SPEAKER_01: The best YouTube channels aren't built by people waiting for someone to tell them what to do.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: We want someone obsessed who watches content and thinks,
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I know exactly why that got 40 million views.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Someone who loses sleep over retention curves and can look at a thumbnail
7:48
SPEAKER_01: and immediately know if the video is going to work.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: for this role we are looking for someone who has already grown a channel
7:55
SPEAKER_01: from near zero to at least 300 000 subscribers without leaning on an established ip
8:01
SPEAKER_01: or celebrity you are a strategic thinker with deep empathy
8:05
SPEAKER_01: for kids real hands-on experience and an almost obsessive
8:09
SPEAKER_01: ever-evolving understanding of the youtube ecosystem this role is not for someone
8:14
SPEAKER_01: who waits for perfect briefs manages from a distance or wants
8:17
SPEAKER_01: a meeting heavy week focused on discussion
8:19
SPEAKER_01: over action self-starters only please exclamation point we prioritize ontario-based
8:26
SPEAKER_01: candidates for this role but will also consider remote or international applicants
8:30
SPEAKER_01: if you're living in canada you must be legally allowed to work in canada
8:34
SPEAKER_01: so let's pause there and talk about uh talk about that about the role any stand out
8:41
SPEAKER_00: so this is this is a company that is 11 to 50 people it's relatively small
8:48
SPEAKER_00: yet they are hiring someone a dedicated staff resource
8:54
SPEAKER_00: to manage their youtube channel
8:58
SPEAKER_00: that signals to me that this is more of a marketing role than it is a product role
9:02
SPEAKER_00: but there probably will be some elements of of product development
9:08
SPEAKER_00: in it like they'll probably the product team
9:10
SPEAKER_00: that is building these products are probably going to come to you
9:14
SPEAKER_00: for community insights at least i hope that they would this size this space
9:20
SPEAKER_00: but it also says that they're working um or they'll be talking with
9:24
SPEAKER_00: the chief creative officer that
9:27
SPEAKER_00: really interests me yeah um the fact that a company of this size has
9:33
SPEAKER_00: a chief creative officer i find quite intriguing quite intriguing because this is
9:39
SPEAKER_00: a small company to have a chief creative officer
9:43
SPEAKER_00: unless maybe you know it's like the founder or something and they just prefer
9:45
SPEAKER_00: to title themselves as as chief creative officer i've seen that before sometimes
9:51
SPEAKER_00: in organizations that are very very design focused
9:54
SPEAKER_00: and design heavy one thing i found particularly interesting
9:57
SPEAKER_00: in this is they say you know you must have um you must have demonstrated
10:02
SPEAKER_00: that you must be able to demonstrate basically that you have grown a new channel
10:08
SPEAKER_00: from nothing to a thing
10:12
SPEAKER_00: without resting on existing ip that is very very smart to say that because there's a
10:21
SPEAKER_00: and we know this from like starting a new ip from scratch
10:24
SPEAKER_00: and uh you know building our own podcast and whatnot um there's a multiplier effect
10:29
SPEAKER_00: from
10:30
SPEAKER_00: using existing ip intellectual property or brands or whatever else to kind
10:35
SPEAKER_00: of grow your audience like if there's already a brand in place that has a following
10:38
SPEAKER_00: in an audience way easier to grow than if there is like absolutely nothing
10:46
SPEAKER_00: so they're signaling very very clearly you must have the skills and the experience
10:51
SPEAKER_00: and the mentality to really do the hard work rolling that boulder
10:55
SPEAKER_00: up the hill that's going to be a pretty central part to success
10:59
SPEAKER_00: in this job role it's also i think going to be a little challenging
11:02
SPEAKER_00: to find i think it's going to be tough to find particularly
11:07
SPEAKER_00: if they're prioritizing candidates in this region in ontario
11:11
SPEAKER_00: and central canada not saying that there's nobody here who's done that
11:14
SPEAKER_00: before google youtube they have offices here
11:18
SPEAKER_00: some of the largest influencers on youtube early influencers on youtube in
11:22
SPEAKER_00: the world like we're kind of from the gta so there's an ecosystem of creators here
11:27
SPEAKER_00: but it'll still be a tough find i'm really curious to to kind of find out if they
11:31
SPEAKER_00: if they find someone for this role how that goes i'd love to have these people on
11:35
SPEAKER_00: the show sometime
11:37
SPEAKER_01: so this is interesting you absolutely uh nailed it when you said it's interesting
11:43
SPEAKER_01: that they have a chief creative officer at a company that size unless it's like
11:48
SPEAKER_01: a co-founder and it is it is a co-founder
11:52
SPEAKER_01: of the company yeah and like the more we do this show the more we start
11:56
SPEAKER_01: to see things like that like there is it's it's cheesy because this is kind
12:00
SPEAKER_01: of our tagline but it's it is the story behind the bullet points right like
12:04
SPEAKER_01: the more you really dissect these job postings the more you start to see things
12:09
SPEAKER_01: that make sense like yeah chief creative officer probably a co-founder why
12:13
SPEAKER_01: because it's a small company and they don't necessarily need a title like that
12:16
SPEAKER_01: unless it's something that they want uh and
12:19
SPEAKER_01: so what's interesting to me is that it says that you'll be spending a lot of time
12:22
SPEAKER_01: with the chief creative officer but it doesn't say who this role is reporting to
12:27
SPEAKER_01: and i wonder how much creative license this person will have or
12:33
SPEAKER_01: if they're you know like they're they're going to be collaborating
12:36
SPEAKER_01: but how much is it the chief creative officer's final say
12:40
SPEAKER_01: on what actually goes out like i i think that that's interesting and when
12:45
SPEAKER_01: that person is also a co-founder there's that additional layer
12:49
SPEAKER_01: of like i don't know it's ownership
12:53
SPEAKER_01: uh emotions that get involved too so i can i feel like without knowing
12:59
SPEAKER_01: who this person is reporting to it's going to be a little bit sticky and
13:03
SPEAKER_01: a little bit challenging for them to let their creativity flag fly um
13:09
SPEAKER_01: the other thing i wonder about too is they're saying that they want
13:11
SPEAKER_01: to find someone who's built something from zero
13:13
SPEAKER_01: at least 300 000 subscribers like you said
13:18
SPEAKER_01: do they care what that was built on like this is
13:21
SPEAKER_01: a kids learning montessori style company uh what if it's somebody
13:28
SPEAKER_01: who has like just absolutely crushed it and knows youtube inside it out
13:33
SPEAKER_01: but it's something that maybe doesn't align with the values of this company uh is
13:38
SPEAKER_01: that a deal breaker right so i feel like maybe they could have been
13:41
SPEAKER_01: a little bit more specific um maybe they speak to it further down the job posting
13:46
SPEAKER_01: but
13:47
SPEAKER_01: this would have to be a values-aligned role and so it can't just be anything
13:52
SPEAKER_01: that they've created on youtube successfully uh which
13:56
SPEAKER_01: to me narrows down their search even more like you said it's gonna be hard enough
13:59
SPEAKER_01: to find someone just in the greater toronto area who has done this but then
14:04
SPEAKER_01: when you talk about what the content is going to be and they want to make sure
14:07
SPEAKER_01: that they have someone who's like not i don't know doing i don't know youtube um
14:14
SPEAKER_01: something with sex
14:17
SPEAKER_01: sex and swearing or things blowing up right exactly exactly so so i don't know
14:25
SPEAKER_01: that does narrow it down so it is going to be
14:27
SPEAKER_01: a little bit challenging quite challenging for them to find someone for this role
14:31
SPEAKER_01: but those were the things that stood out to me for sure it's
14:33
SPEAKER_00: a very good very good point you bring up about
14:38
SPEAKER_00: about ownership so you know we're talking about okay
14:42
SPEAKER_00: the chief creative officer is actually a co-founder and that's going to add
14:46
SPEAKER_00: an additional layer of kind of stickiness around decision making and you know
14:50
SPEAKER_00: whose viewpoint actually goes through
14:52
SPEAKER_00: a lot of the time it's going to be the founder a lot of the time it's going
14:57
SPEAKER_00: to be you know someone higher up as it should in some cases but if you're signaling
15:02
SPEAKER_00: in this job ad that you want someone who can pick up the ball and run who's
15:07
SPEAKER_00: a self-starter who's done this before who has all of those entrepreneurial qualities
15:12
SPEAKER_00: and you're saying we want you to be the person running this
15:17
SPEAKER_00: but then you have a chief creative officer who's going to be intimately involved
15:21
SPEAKER_00: and i work with a lot of entrepreneurs and they have a tough time delegating a lot
15:26
SPEAKER_00: of the time so there's that kind of inclination that they want to just hang
15:31
SPEAKER_00: hang on to everything because you know their judgment has served them well and gotten
15:36
SPEAKER_00: them to this point ergo their judgment should continue to do so they have a tough time letting
15:40
SPEAKER_00: go there might be some future friction points in this role because of that dynamic
15:46
SPEAKER_00: that's something i'd be looking out for in an interview for sure
15:49
SPEAKER_01: and it's it sounds like it's a net new role like they say our new head
15:53
SPEAKER_01: of youtube role and so that's that's a challenge too like it's
15:57
SPEAKER_01: for me personally i like being the first of in roles because i get to kind
16:01
SPEAKER_01: of own everything and i don't have to work with inherited processes however it is
16:07
SPEAKER_01: an uphill battle like you said it's it's an uphill battle so
16:12
SPEAKER_01: uh the other thing that stood out to me that i just remembered is that they use
16:15
SPEAKER_01: the word obsessed or obsessive twice and and i don't like that that's
16:20
SPEAKER_01: where i go back to what i said in the intro like those startup vibes
16:23
SPEAKER_01: of like you know all or nothing work hard play hard you're obsessed with this and
16:28
SPEAKER_01: that and it's like
16:30
SPEAKER_01: y'all you don't want someone working for you who is obsessed with
16:35
SPEAKER_01: with specific things like that like that's that's too much
16:38
SPEAKER_01: and it doesn't it doesn't read balance to me it doesn't read work-life balance
16:44
SPEAKER_01: to me um so it does have those kind of startup vibes um that we're not very fond
16:49
SPEAKER_01: of um self starters only pleased
16:53
SPEAKER_00: yeah i mean unhealthy obsessions can also they can also drag you down that path
16:58
SPEAKER_00: of not taking in um outside feedback and input right so if you if you have
17:04
SPEAKER_00: an unhealthy obsession and you fixate on something you're more likely to be my way
17:08
SPEAKER_00: or the highway that's that can work in very small organizations
17:13
SPEAKER_00: where there literally aren't enough people um
17:16
SPEAKER_00: to to have a lot of you know varied and balanced inputs on a particular topic but
17:21
SPEAKER_00: if you have an organization that's growing and scaling or has multiple stakeholders
17:26
SPEAKER_00: on a given topic it can really blow you out of
17:28
SPEAKER_00: the water like it can it can make your stuff fall apart
17:31
SPEAKER_00: if you have one person that's just like no my way or no way
17:35
SPEAKER_01: and and you're talking about someone too who has successfully grown uh
17:39
SPEAKER_01: a youtube channel in the past so it could be like well i did it this way
17:42
SPEAKER_01: and it worked and and it's the same then you've got the co-founder who's like
17:46
SPEAKER_01: but we've scaled this far like we we know what we're doing so there's going
17:50
SPEAKER_01: to be there's going to be conflict uh in this role absolutely
17:54
SPEAKER_00: particularly when you signal that you want someone who has successfully done this
17:59
SPEAKER_00: before right like that right from the very get-go says we want you
18:03
SPEAKER_00: because you've done this you have a playbook we want your playbook go
18:08
SPEAKER_00: if it doesn't unfold that way it's going to get weird yeah uh so then it goes
18:13
SPEAKER_01: into what you'll do so a few bullet points here own
18:16
SPEAKER_01: the full youtube channel strategy talk to bottom including growth programming
18:21
SPEAKER_01: and long-term vision
18:23
SPEAKER_01: own the full channel strategy through programming growth
18:25
SPEAKER_01: and long-term vision again i'm reading it verbatim
18:28
SPEAKER_01: so that's not that's not me having some medical crisis i'm just reading
18:33
SPEAKER_01: the job posting
18:35
SPEAKER_01: although i feel sometimes like i'm having medical crisis anyway uh drive day-to-day
18:39
SPEAKER_01: performance across retention ctr which stands for click-through rate
18:45
SPEAKER_01: and subscriber growth and know exactly why the numbers look the way they do
18:49
SPEAKER_01: lead thumbnail title and packaging decisions to maximize discovery turn data
18:54
SPEAKER_01: into clear creative direction knowing what to test what to scale and what to cut own
18:59
SPEAKER_01: the content calendar in close collaboration with
19:02
SPEAKER_01: the cco chief creative officer build out the team and production workflows as
19:07
SPEAKER_01: the channel grows bring clear decisive thinking and strategy to the room
19:12
SPEAKER_01: so i'm going to stop there not very many but those are the bullet points
19:15
SPEAKER_01: of what you'll do did uh stand out to you
19:20
SPEAKER_00: few things come to mind so you're there they're again talking
19:25
SPEAKER_00: about close collaboration with the
19:26
SPEAKER_00: chief creative officer of the cco this is sounding more and more like the cpo is the
19:32
SPEAKER_00: primary marketing person in the organization which when you title it chief creative
19:39
SPEAKER_00: officer, it's a little ambiguous because chief creative
19:43
SPEAKER_00: officer can be something like more design focused.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: so around like product design or content design or something like that
19:52
SPEAKER_00: or it can be kind of marketing focused
19:53
SPEAKER_00: or it can just be like aesthetics focused there are a bunch of different ways
19:57
SPEAKER_00: that you can kind of take that but it sounds like chief creative officer
20:00
SPEAKER_00: in this context is meant to be the head of marketing i'm curious about that because
20:08
SPEAKER_00: that makes me wonder if there's a culture of
20:13
SPEAKER_00: marketing is aesthetically pleasing and that's what we go for
20:17
SPEAKER_00: and we don't really care about the other parts of marketing that are unglamorous
20:21
SPEAKER_00: but ultimately are what are productive and set the business on a path
20:27
SPEAKER_00: to actually make money
20:29
SPEAKER_00: given that this is a small organization and they're leaning
20:33
SPEAKER_00: on this chief creative officer thing and they're also hiring a channel head instead
20:39
SPEAKER_00: of a marketing specialist for youtube i wonder if the organization is oriented
20:44
SPEAKER_00: towards pretty and not productive i would kind of be concerned about that going
20:51
SPEAKER_00: in another thing i found interesting
20:53
SPEAKER_00: in this was they they called out ctr click-through rate very explicitly that's kind
20:58
SPEAKER_00: of odd
21:00
SPEAKER_00: for a job ad and i i don't want to i don't want to poo poo on it too much
21:06
SPEAKER_00: without um kind of knowing more about their their strategy
21:09
SPEAKER_00: for this their marketing strategy for this but uh focusing too much
21:13
SPEAKER_00: on click-through rate when you have a youtube channel is ultimately self-defeating
21:20
SPEAKER_00: because the purpose of having a channel and creating original content for
21:23
SPEAKER_00: a channel isn't to drive a sales funnel
21:26
SPEAKER_00: it's to create brand awareness so you use your channel your content marketing
21:31
SPEAKER_00: to open up the top of the funnel to create brand awareness to eventually kind of aid
21:35
SPEAKER_00: with preference creation and
21:38
SPEAKER_00: then you do your sales activity somewhere else like clicking from
21:41
SPEAKER_00: a piece of long-form original content on youtube to a landing page it's not really
21:46
SPEAKER_00: a thing like yeah there are some organizations that can do that they've figured
21:50
SPEAKER_00: that out but it's it's not really a thing original youtube content is really meant
21:57
SPEAKER_00: to be a part of kind of a wider marketing mix and it doesn't play that bottom of
22:02
SPEAKER_00: the funnel role so clicks are irrelevant who cares
22:06
SPEAKER_00: yet you're seeing in this job ad and you want them to track click-through rate
22:09
SPEAKER_00: which tells me you want them to optimize around click-through rate that's going
22:13
SPEAKER_01: to be challenging but it could also be like indicative
22:16
SPEAKER_01: that maybe they don't know what they're talking about right like maybe
22:20
SPEAKER_01: it could just be that um yeah i what i found interesting again we're going back
22:25
SPEAKER_01: to this chief creative officer because they mentioned this person a few times
22:28
SPEAKER_01: as someone that they're going to be working closely with
22:30
SPEAKER_01: to me it sounds like they're going to be reporting to this person so just say that's
22:34
SPEAKER_01: the person you're reporting to that that gives us more information like it's such
22:38
SPEAKER_01: a pet peeve when companies don't list the reporting structure uh
22:42
SPEAKER_01: because we say this all the time but it tells you how much autonomy you're going
22:46
SPEAKER_01: to have how much decision making influence um
22:50
SPEAKER_01: so yeah just name it it says it right there it's very clear to me that they're going
22:54
SPEAKER_01: to be reporting to this chief creative officer but i don't know why they're hesitant
22:58
SPEAKER_01: to say it it could be that they're going to figure it out um depending on who
23:02
SPEAKER_01: the person is and they're making some decisions uh it could be that but that's also
23:08
SPEAKER_01: a sign right that things maybe aren't structured or organized or
23:12
SPEAKER_01: or whatever um i don't have much to say beyond that for the the what you'll do um
23:20
SPEAKER_01: but let's go into the ur that's the next that's the next section um
23:26
SPEAKER_01: pretty succinct yeah you are and there are quite
23:30
SPEAKER_01: a few bullet points here there are more bullet points here about who the person
23:35
SPEAKER_01: the candidate is than what they'll actually be doing
23:37
SPEAKER_01: which i always find like fascinating a proven user
23:42
SPEAKER_01: 7catalysts roast the post podcast pwamenear 6catalyst
23:54
SPEAKER_01: -menear 5catalyst
24:00
SPEAKER_01: that's confusing because that's not what they said earlier that's
24:03
SPEAKER_01: a different number it's a different number someone who understands
24:07
SPEAKER_01: the kids youtube ecosystem what parents respond to what holds a child's attention
24:12
SPEAKER_01: and how to build trust with a young audience over time an expert
24:16
SPEAKER_01: in youtube's algorithm at
24:17
SPEAKER_01: a deep level thumbnails titles retention click-through recommendations etc someone
24:22
SPEAKER_01: who thinks like a media strategist and an operator you can map
24:25
SPEAKER_01: a long-term audience vision and execute week by week
24:28
SPEAKER_01: collaborative and creative you can work alongside
24:31
SPEAKER_01: a strong cco that's chief creative officer again without letting
24:36
SPEAKER_01: the channel become purely data-driven from a youtube first environment
24:40
SPEAKER_01: a creator creator studio or youtube native company not a traditional brand or agency
24:46
SPEAKER_01: a doer in the truest sense of the word you self-start think decide act
24:50
SPEAKER_01: and improve every day someone who moves fast and takes risks
24:54
SPEAKER_01: but is not reckless highly organized proactive and calm under pressure you're
24:58
SPEAKER_01: an optimist who brings positivity and solutions to the table even
25:02
SPEAKER_01: when things are challenging
25:04
SPEAKER_01: exceptionally clear in how you communicate you can explain exactly what you did
25:08
SPEAKER_01: to drive growth not just that you were there when it happened and
25:12
SPEAKER_01: then it says bonus points if you have worked in startups or
25:16
SPEAKER_01: on scrappy teams deeply understand brands where parents are the customer experience
25:21
SPEAKER_01: with kids and families scrappy
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Scrappy,
25:26
SPEAKER_01: scrappy.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: I hate scrappy in Scooby -Doo and I hate scrapy in job postings.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: They're both equally annoying and unnecessary but you go for it.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah because scrappy is really just code for the only thing that you have
25:50
SPEAKER_00: at your disposal is the grease in your elbow pits.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: so you gotta make stuff work there scrappy is uh scrappy is one of those words yeah
26:01
SPEAKER_00: when i hear when i see scrappy in a job ad or you know hear that as a description of
26:05
SPEAKER_00: a team you kind of immediately know what the character of it is going
26:09
SPEAKER_00: to be like like you'll work your butt off you'll struggle for absolutely everything
26:14
SPEAKER_00: and they want you to they want you to be okay with that and to do that
26:19
SPEAKER_00: but they don't want to actually say it
26:22
SPEAKER_00: just like be honest about it you know say that it's a startup don't a lot
26:26
SPEAKER_00: of resources you'll have to be creative in how you market and how you grow sure it's
26:31
SPEAKER_00: a part of the job
26:31
SPEAKER_00: but um using code you using using code words is dumb like yeah stop don't use
26:38
SPEAKER_00: the code words they're dumb they say in this section that they want
26:42
SPEAKER_00: a proven operator but
26:47
SPEAKER_00: this proven operator they're previously they'd previously previously been describing
26:53
SPEAKER_00: it as a kind of strategist someone who's grown um a channel and you know
26:58
SPEAKER_00: if one person has taken a channel from nothing to neither 300 000
27:02
SPEAKER_00: or 500 000 subscribers then yeah they've they've got to have operational chops
27:09
SPEAKER_00: because there's a grind to doing that but then in the same set
27:13
SPEAKER_00: of bullet points they say
27:17
SPEAKER_00: you don't want to you you don't want to just be data driven or something like
27:22
SPEAKER_00: that it's like on one hand we want someone
27:25
SPEAKER_00: who is very process driven very operationally heavy but on
27:30
SPEAKER_00: the other hand we want them to make sure that everything still looks pretty
27:34
SPEAKER_00: and is creative and artsy and you know has a flair and i i respect
27:40
SPEAKER_00: that the i would imagine that's the chief creative officer's input
27:43
SPEAKER_00: to be honest i would guess that they said make sure that the person
27:47
SPEAKER_00: who gets this job knows that they have to make everything pretty too i respect that
27:53
SPEAKER_00: because i feel like algorithms
27:55
SPEAKER_00: and data-driven marketing have taken some of the soul out of creativity and you know
28:01
SPEAKER_00: in internet media and whatnot so i respect that drive but you're asking
28:05
SPEAKER_00: for two completely different things to be put into one person you're asking for them
28:10
SPEAKER_00: to compartmentalize and have some dissonance
28:13
SPEAKER_00: and you're not really talking about how that's possible or how you'll accept it
28:19
SPEAKER_00: because there are definitely going to be things that the cco is not going to like
28:24
SPEAKER_00: if your goal is to grow this thing it's just the way it is like don't hate
28:29
SPEAKER_00: the player hate the game youtube operates a certain way you've got to play
28:33
SPEAKER_00: by its rules or else you're not going to get anywhere fast
28:36
SPEAKER_01: i um there's a good point that i want to call out in in
28:40
SPEAKER_01: the chat like you you've built an audience of 500 000 on youtube like that isn't
28:47
SPEAKER_01: that your job like do you do you need to be looking for a job like fair point
28:52
SPEAKER_01: you're you're probably doing okay uh so that is
28:55
SPEAKER_01: a really really good point i think this is the part of the job ad for me
28:58
SPEAKER_01: that um starts to go into the direction that i really don't care for
29:03
SPEAKER_01: and it's just very cliche um something like you're someone who moves fast
29:08
SPEAKER_01: and takes risks
29:09
SPEAKER_01: but you're not reckless well that's subjective like what is my authority
29:13
SPEAKER_01: then how what is my
29:15
SPEAKER_01: what is my influence what does reckless mean to you and so that's something
29:19
SPEAKER_01: that obviously you can have a conversation about when you're in the role or
29:22
SPEAKER_01: when you're interviewing for the role but when it's put in
29:25
SPEAKER_01: the job description it kind of gives me a little bit of like
29:29
SPEAKER_01: a bad feeling like my spidey senses are tingling that it might be
29:34
SPEAKER_01: a very controlling environment because then it also says you're an optimist
29:39
SPEAKER_01: who brings positivity and solutions to the table even when things are challenging
29:46
SPEAKER_01: that's interesting to me because it reads like they're saying when stuff starts
29:53
SPEAKER_01: to get tough when it starts to hit the fan you're just gonna like put
29:58
SPEAKER_01: on your creepy little smile and be like everything's fine it's that it's that dog in
30:03
SPEAKER_01: the burning kitchen meme you know like it's weird to say that in
30:09
SPEAKER_01: a job posting yeah could be worded differently yeah yeah
30:15
SPEAKER_01: so i don't know there there are a couple signals in here that i'm not crazy
30:20
SPEAKER_01: about i also don't like it
30:22
SPEAKER_01: when we have those mistakes like they're repeating certain bullet points
30:25
SPEAKER_01: or there are different metrics that they're speaking to they need they need
30:28
SPEAKER_01: to just again slow down read it make sure that you've got everything
30:32
SPEAKER_01: right, and like what does this mean?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know it's so probably not a big deal.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: But oh wait!
30:40
SPEAKER_01: I grew my YouTube audience to 300,
30:42
SPEAKER_01: not 500 thousand plus.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Like does that mean I'm not gonna qualify
30:51
SPEAKER_01: don't have those little mistakes in there they're just so easy to avoid yeah
30:56
SPEAKER_00: in practice they're going to end up interviewing people who have grown to you
30:59
SPEAKER_00: who have grown a youtube channel to 50 000 subscribers or 75 000 subscribers like
31:05
SPEAKER_00: that um that that
31:06
SPEAKER_00: is completely arbitrary and it's a very good point that if you've grown a channel to a half
31:11
SPEAKER_00: million subscribers, you're probably serious about it. And you've probably gotten uh you've
31:17
SPEAKER_00: figured out your monetization strategy and your loops and all that stuff and
31:20
SPEAKER_00: you're making some money like maybe not enough to work on it full-time yourself but
31:26
SPEAKER_00: you know it's going to be like a thing are you going to try and do the same thing
31:30
SPEAKER_00: for a job and give up all of your youtube channel
31:32
SPEAKER_00: because startup you know you're not going to be working nine
31:36
SPEAKER_00: to five thirty seven point three hours a week you are going to be working longer
31:40
SPEAKER_00: than that it's just the nature of the beast it doesn't matter how well intentioned
31:45
SPEAKER_00: the leadership team and the culture of that startup is you are going
31:48
SPEAKER_00: to be working long hours it's a part of
31:50
SPEAKER_00: the game you know it's it's largely unavoidable it just it happens
31:55
SPEAKER_00: there was something that i wanted to come back to that you had said oh the so
32:03
SPEAKER_00: where they where they were saying don't be reckless i had a i had
32:08
SPEAKER_00: a slightly different take on that my take on that was more about brand safety given
32:14
SPEAKER_00: the part of the
32:17
SPEAKER_00: call it industry or ecosystem or whatever that they're in they're building products
32:21
SPEAKER_00: for children so the way that i kind of interpreted
32:24
SPEAKER_00: that was don't make content choices that would get us in hot water
32:30
SPEAKER_00: because it's children like maybe don't do a crazy post about like politics or guns
32:37
SPEAKER_00: to kind of like artificially drive like the rage farming a kind of tidal wave
32:43
SPEAKER_00: into like our stuff i i kind of interpreted as don't do that if that's the case
32:47
SPEAKER_00: though there's a much much better way that you could have framed this whole thing
32:51
SPEAKER_00: because
32:52
SPEAKER_00: reckless that's a very it's
32:54
SPEAKER_00: a really subjective word what does reckless even mean like you pointed
32:57
SPEAKER_00: out i would have framed that more through the lens of like you know what be don't be afraid to
33:02
SPEAKER_00: take risks don't Be Afraid To Try Out New Things Don't Be Affraid To Innovate but always
33:07
SPEAKER_00: keep in mind that our purpose is to make the educational experience better
33:12
SPEAKER_00: for children you know happy kids smarter kids happy parents right
33:17
SPEAKER_00: so make your decisions through that framework and don't make us look like jerks yeah
33:23
SPEAKER_01: i can see that perspective for sure
33:25
SPEAKER_01: and i think there's you know bringing tying it back to their values
33:28
SPEAKER_01: and their mission is a really important thing to do and they talk about
33:31
SPEAKER_01: that like they say experience well this is a weird bullet point experience with kids
33:36
SPEAKER_01: and families
33:37
SPEAKER_01: but like work experience life experience like not good experience i don't i don't
33:44
SPEAKER_01: know what that means um so that was an interesting bullet point
33:47
SPEAKER_00: i get what they're i get what they're going for i get what they're going
33:50
SPEAKER_00: for it's like you you have to you have to kind of know a little bit about
33:55
SPEAKER_00: that culture of like families with with young children and parents and you have
33:59
SPEAKER_00: to know a little bit about that culture for this to work but yeah super awkward
34:04
SPEAKER_00: the way
34:04
SPEAKER_00: that they phrased it like i don't have any kids you know me my wife we don't have
34:09
SPEAKER_00: kids
34:10
SPEAKER_00: does that mean that we are not culturally familiar with people
34:15
SPEAKER_00: with young parents no not even a little bit we got tons of friends
34:17
SPEAKER_00: who have small kids you know i go over and babysit she goes over
34:20
SPEAKER_00: and babysit we hang out
34:21
SPEAKER_00: with their kids like we get it we just don't have kids ourselves yeah it's a it's
34:26
SPEAKER_01: a weird it's a weird thing because like i don't think that that's necessary
34:31
SPEAKER_01: to be able to succeed in this role so it's interesting that they put that in there
34:36
SPEAKER_01: but it's a bonus points right so it's like a nice to have and again like we go back
34:42
SPEAKER_01: to scrappy which we both said is just such a terrible it's do more with less
34:46
SPEAKER_01: and like you're going to have to fight tooth and nail to get
34:49
SPEAKER_01: scraps really um and yeah this is where i think they should have
34:55
SPEAKER_01: or could have there's a missed opportunity of going back
34:58
SPEAKER_01: to like saying okay your youtube experience was aligned with our values
35:05
SPEAKER_01: or whatever right so then it goes on to more about us
35:10
SPEAKER_01: this i find really interesting we're a growing team
35:12
SPEAKER_01: of passionate experienced creators based
35:14
SPEAKER_01: on ontario we love animals music travel video games kids cooking yoga building
35:22
SPEAKER_01: robots going to museums talking about things we're watching right now and playing
35:27
SPEAKER_01: with old toys we're from all walks of life
35:30
SPEAKER_01: and are convinced that's our secret sauce we are
35:33
SPEAKER_01: a mom-founded company too exclamation point
35:37
SPEAKER_01: i'm gonna stop there even though there are more sections because i just want
35:39
SPEAKER_01: to see what you think about that uh more but this is where you know they're trying
35:44
SPEAKER_00: to speak to their culture yeah they're they're trying to build i i
35:51
SPEAKER_00: i know what they're going for i know what they're trying
35:53
SPEAKER_00: to do it's just awkward like they're trying to they're trying to construct elements
35:58
SPEAKER_00: of their employer brand and they're trying to paint a little bit of a picture
36:02
SPEAKER_00: of what the what the culture inside the organization is like what
36:06
SPEAKER_00: the people are like you know some of the some of the shared interests that they have
36:10
SPEAKER_00: and and they're trying to conjure up like a little bit of a picture of what
36:14
SPEAKER_00: the break room is going to be like
36:16
SPEAKER_00: i i get it i will give them full points for
36:20
SPEAKER_00: the attempt i think organizations should do this to the best
36:24
SPEAKER_00: of their ability once you get huge you just can't it's impossible
36:27
SPEAKER_00: but smaller organizations should do this because it's a very powerful differentiator
36:32
SPEAKER_00: when you're looking to hire talent in the labor market and you're up
36:35
SPEAKER_00: against organizations that have a bigger bank role the way
36:38
SPEAKER_00: that they just described everything though really awkward
36:44
SPEAKER_00: it it feels like it was written through the contextual lens of one person perhaps
36:50
SPEAKER_00: the chief creative officer and
36:53
SPEAKER_00: that person is describing what they are what they like and they want you to kind
36:58
SPEAKER_00: of be okay with and aligned with that or be the same kind of person sort
37:02
SPEAKER_00: of feels like i don't
37:06
SPEAKER_00: yeah it just didn't resonate because you're going to filter out people who are going
37:10
SPEAKER_00: to be potentially great fits for this job but don't line out
37:15
SPEAKER_00: with what is probably not completely accurate that you've written
37:18
SPEAKER_00: about your employer brand so it like no that that needed
37:23
SPEAKER_01: to be different i think doesn't land it doesn't land for me yeah
37:27
SPEAKER_01: so what's interesting to me is that they bury the lead we're a mom founded company
37:33
SPEAKER_01: can you start with that because you're talking about like the the work that you do
37:38
SPEAKER_01: and it's for it's for kids
37:39
SPEAKER_01: and it's this montessori type play educational technology um start with that
37:45
SPEAKER_01: that that's yeah pretty cool it's a mom-founded company and so that should be like
37:51
SPEAKER_01: the the main selling point more and more and we talk about this a lot in
37:54
SPEAKER_01: the podcast people are looking for
37:58
SPEAKER_01: values-aligned and mission-driven organizations so that the work
38:02
SPEAKER_01: that they're contributing is making a difference and this is a big deal so
38:07
SPEAKER_01: the other stuff is just yeah we're we love animals like building robots going
38:14
SPEAKER_01: to museums and then playing with old toys like that's all that's all very bizarre
38:20
SPEAKER_01: to me and just poorly written so i think it could have been done better this reads
38:24
SPEAKER_01: a little bit rushed to me as well and it
38:28
SPEAKER_00: yeah it is rushed the playing with old toys thing i actually would lean more on
38:32
SPEAKER_00: that i would have tried to construct a little bit of a narrative about that
38:36
SPEAKER_00: because they're trying to make the case that um their version
38:40
SPEAKER_00: of digital learning experiences
38:44
SPEAKER_00: is just as fun as playing with you know the barbies or the ghostbusters that you had
38:49
SPEAKER_00: when you were a kid growing up um so i i would have leaned on that a little bit more
38:53
SPEAKER_00: and tried to weave that into the overall narrative more because
38:56
SPEAKER_00: that could be powerful storytelling but it just it was an aside
39:01
SPEAKER_01: definitely doesn't land um other awesome we're getting close to the end of
39:05
SPEAKER_01: the uh posting other awesome things about this role that's the heading you'll have
39:10
SPEAKER_01: the unique opportunity to build grow and make your mark joining
39:13
SPEAKER_01: a fast growing startup early on the option to work from our beautiful brick
39:17
SPEAKER_01: and beam office in the downtown core within walking distance to
39:21
SPEAKER_01: the eaton center st lawrence market and union station
39:25
SPEAKER_01: 3 weeks of paid vacation plus a 2-week holiday office closure because life outside
39:32
SPEAKER_01: of work matters competitive compensation including employee stock options
39:36
SPEAKER_01: and health benefits we love field trips playtesting with kids
39:40
SPEAKER_01: in our community toy research science centers and museums we have no fun at all
39:46
SPEAKER_01: so that's the other awesome things about this role i like i think they're trying
39:52
SPEAKER_01: to be funny like yeah these things are so amazing fun
39:55
SPEAKER_01: at all like i think they're trying to act like that was supposed to be sarcastic
40:01
SPEAKER_00: yeah it was lost on me that's one of those statements
40:04
SPEAKER_00: that you know you're it's only gonna land if the body language and
40:09
SPEAKER_00: the facial cues are attached to it right like you you say on paper something like
40:13
SPEAKER_00: that is just it's not gonna land i was like what i didn't
40:19
SPEAKER_01: i agree and then it's what's interesting to me too is that so they say three weeks
40:23
SPEAKER_01: of paid vacation plus two week holiday office closure because life outside
40:26
SPEAKER_01: of work matters which is cool agreed but they don't also qualify the other things in
40:33
SPEAKER_01: the same way which is interesting to me like
40:37
SPEAKER_01: i feel like why qualify that and you're saying that like life outside
40:41
SPEAKER_01: of work matters but that's not necessarily injected throughout the rest of
40:46
SPEAKER_01: the job posting it's just like in this one statement so again it just feels like
40:52
SPEAKER_01: it it's a bit of a rush job they have a really cool story
40:56
SPEAKER_01: to tell there could have been some really cool storytelling it could have played
40:59
SPEAKER_01: into the whole idea of like storytelling and children and everything
41:03
SPEAKER_01: but it just it just didn't and goes back to what we said earlier like you have
41:08
SPEAKER_01: the uh especially when you are the co-founders and it's startup or whatever you have
41:14
SPEAKER_01: that ability to create a job posting and make it whatever you want it to be
41:18
SPEAKER_01: like it could have even been done in a pdf that looks like
41:22
SPEAKER_01: a kids book right like how cool would that have been there are so many things
41:26
SPEAKER_01: that you can do uh and especially if it's all being led by
41:31
SPEAKER_01: the chief creative officer like why that why are you so not creative
41:36
SPEAKER_01: be be creative so yeah bland bland and weird to me um we we get to how
41:44
SPEAKER_01: to apply that's the last part apply on our careers page
41:47
SPEAKER_01: and show us what you've built your application should include a cover letter
41:52
SPEAKER_01: with links to every channel that you've worked on tell us your role
41:55
SPEAKER_01: the subscriber count when you started and when you left then briefly explain
41:59
SPEAKER_01: in your own words how you made it grow
42:02
SPEAKER_01: a short video introduction sharing something interesting about yourself
42:05
SPEAKER_01: that we can't find on your resume if you include if you include
42:08
SPEAKER_01: a short video intro we'll guarantee our ceo watches it exclamation point
42:14
SPEAKER_01: and your resume a real human will read your application if you're interested
42:18
SPEAKER_01: in moving forward if we're interested in moving forward you'll get
42:21
SPEAKER_01: a very enthusiastic message from us so i kind of want to unpack that uh on that
42:29
SPEAKER_01: the how to apply because i think
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Saying, like, we guarantee our CEO watches it is weird to me.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: And you mean they wouldn't?
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Am I reporting to the CEO?
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Right?
42:46
SPEAKER_01: Is your CEO so busy that this is a big promise that you're making to us?
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, wow, really?
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: The CEO's going to watch my video?
42:56
SPEAKER_01: That's weird.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: i wonder if the chief creative officer and
43:00
SPEAKER_00: the chief executive officer are co-founders and they're a couple oh
43:05
SPEAKER_00: a couple i wonder i wonder if they're married oh i wonder if uh this is like a
43:14
SPEAKER_00: this is like a married couple business sort of thing i really wonder that
43:18
SPEAKER_00: because like yeah why why would the ceo watch it's kind of like
43:24
SPEAKER_00: if you you read this another way you can say you know what if you send us a video
43:29
SPEAKER_00: and we really really love it and you did such a great job because you're such
43:32
SPEAKER_00: a good girl or boy daddy will watch it yeah it kind of feels a little bit like that
43:38
SPEAKER_00: to me yeah it kind of feels a little bit like that
43:42
SPEAKER_00: yeah that's another thing that's a little loft
43:45
SPEAKER_00: a little weird didn't really belong there kind of takes away from what they're
43:49
SPEAKER_00: from what they're trying to accomplish definitely almost distracted me from the
43:55
SPEAKER_00: a human will read your application part which is fantastic
43:59
SPEAKER_00: if you're a small company you should absolutely be reviewing these as a person
44:05
SPEAKER_00: and not relying on the ats that you probably have implemented or the ai system
44:10
SPEAKER_00: that somebody sold you for five bucks a month that's going to do
44:13
SPEAKER_00: a terrible job that's a that's a big differentiator
44:17
SPEAKER_00: when you say yeah someone's actually going to look at this and take it seriously
44:21
SPEAKER_00: so they get points for that they lose points for the ceo thing
44:26
SPEAKER_01: it's it's wild to me um and then it says that part where if
44:30
SPEAKER_01: if we're interested you'll get a very enthusiastic message from us like that's weird
44:34
SPEAKER_01: to me too i want to know what that message like i want to know what's
44:38
SPEAKER_01: so enthusiastic about it uh that's interesting wording
44:42
SPEAKER_00: I feel like the hiring manager wrote this job ad, which I kind of like.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: I kind OF like that because when you don't have the hiring
44:52
SPEAKER_00: manager involved in the recruitment process from
44:55
SPEAKER_00: the very start, you create schisms pretty quickly.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: and um things things tend to get a little bit weird if
45:01
SPEAKER_00: the hiring manager doesn't get involved until like the let's have
45:04
SPEAKER_00: an interview phase um so it this feels to me like the hiring manager wrote this
45:11
SPEAKER_00: but they probably should have asked for some feedback and input
45:14
SPEAKER_01: from other people yeah yeah i agree um and that is that is it
45:19
SPEAKER_01: so there is no salary listed um
45:25
SPEAKER_01: there's no salary listed and this is in ontario uh and so that's a no no it's
45:30
SPEAKER_00: a no no unless this role has a base salary of over two hundred thousand dollars
45:34
SPEAKER_00: a year in which case it's totally fine but i suspect that this is not a base salary
45:38
SPEAKER_01: of two hundred thousand dollars but it's also under what 50 employees and
45:42
SPEAKER_01: so also i thought it was less than that
45:46
SPEAKER_00: maybe uh yeah if it's under if they're under yeah you know what if
45:49
SPEAKER_00: the cutoffs 50 employees for disclosing salary range then they're okay
45:53
SPEAKER_00: but you know i think i feel like we say this on every stinking episode of
45:57
SPEAKER_00: the show just post it just post it you're already this company trying to hire
46:04
SPEAKER_00: for this role is already going to have their work cut out for them they're looking
46:12
SPEAKER_00: for someone in ontario
46:16
SPEAKER_00: canada that's their preference they're looking for someone who has experience being
46:22
SPEAKER_00: a channel head
46:25
SPEAKER_00: for youtube so presumably to them that means you know producing content probably
46:31
SPEAKER_00: in partnership with other people but producing content creative direction uploading
46:35
SPEAKER_00: to youtube doing the the search optimization stuff doing the operational stuff doing
46:40
SPEAKER_00: the analytics stuff you're looking for someone who has all that experience
46:44
SPEAKER_00: and you're looking for someone who is a values fit
46:47
SPEAKER_00: whether or not they've said that you know clearly and verbatim
46:52
SPEAKER_00: they're looking for someone who's a values fit
46:54
SPEAKER_00: that's pretty clear from the signals that we're getting
46:58
SPEAKER_00: and you're looking
46:59
SPEAKER_00: for someone
47:01
SPEAKER_00: as was pointed out in
47:04
SPEAKER_00: the chat in the live studio audience
47:06
SPEAKER_00: someone who quite possibly could have an income
47:09
SPEAKER_00: already from their half a million subscriber
47:12
SPEAKER_00: youtube channel
47:13
SPEAKER_00: so you're competing against all of those things
47:16
SPEAKER_00: things.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: and you're a small organization you know if i'm someone who has those skill sets
47:21
SPEAKER_00: and i'm looking for a job uh and i find 10 jobs that kind of fit what i'm interested
47:26
SPEAKER_00: in and what i can do and nine of them have salaries posted and one doesn't guess
47:30
SPEAKER_00: which one i'm ignoring
47:31
SPEAKER_01: so i find it interesting that they don't have a salary i find it interesting
47:35
SPEAKER_01: that um there is they talk about being a diverse like within the job ad they talk
47:40
SPEAKER_01: about being an equal opportunity employer and they appreciate diversity
47:43
SPEAKER_01: but they don't mention anything about how they would accommodate someone
47:46
SPEAKER_01: who might need an accommodation to apply for this job like so i liked
47:52
SPEAKER_01: that they had included that but then i hate
47:54
SPEAKER_01: that they don't actually they're not walking the walk like
47:59
SPEAKER_01: it's actually such a disappointment uh yeah there's no disclosure not
48:04
SPEAKER_01: that they necessarily have to um at this point i think company size but
48:09
SPEAKER_01: about how they say a human will read it but they don't say anything else
48:12
SPEAKER_01: about ai disclosure um so i found that interesting too and the biggest thing
48:17
SPEAKER_01: for me is that this job is so tied to one thing like to youtube
48:22
SPEAKER_01: so they're not talking about social media they're not talking
48:25
SPEAKER_01: about any other channels
48:27
SPEAKER_01: they were talking about youtube and i i don't know how i feel about that like
48:32
SPEAKER_01: if i were the person that would feel really like singular
48:38
SPEAKER_01: and i'm curious who does their other social media what other social media channels
48:42
SPEAKER_01: that they have uh is it going to be this person because it certainly doesn't appear
48:47
SPEAKER_01: to be that way uh and that's another kind of clash opportunity
48:52
SPEAKER_01: if they have someone else doing that work a social media manager or whatever then
48:56
SPEAKER_01: who is making those final decisions and making sure that everything is kind of like
49:01
SPEAKER_01: across the board
49:02
SPEAKER_00: there's two ways to look at that. There's two
49:05
SPEAKER_00: ways to Look at this thing with it where
49:06
SPEAKER_00: it's like, it's YouTube. The first way is the
49:11
SPEAKER_00: first Way is okay we're putting all of our
49:14
SPEAKER_00: eggs in one basket. We're putting All
49:16
SPEAKER_00: of Our kind of resources into YouTube to
49:20
SPEAKER_00: build a channel to have content and you
49:23
SPEAKER_00: know if it flops were we're kind of
49:25
SPEAKER_00: f***ed. That's kind of one way to look
49:28
SPEAKER_00: at it. Another way to look at it is like
49:31
SPEAKER_00: we want this to be a central part of our strategy our content marketing
49:35
SPEAKER_00: and brand strategy and we we know that it's going to be a big thing so we need
49:40
SPEAKER_00: a dedicated person to do it and there are other people that are working
49:44
SPEAKER_00: on other stuff like there may very well be a social team
49:47
SPEAKER_00: as you're saying there may very well be other content marketers other people kind
49:51
SPEAKER_00: of involved in this but they want like a youtube person because it's a central part
49:56
SPEAKER_00: of their strategy which one is true
49:59
SPEAKER_00: who knows who knows but you know there are two framings for
50:03
SPEAKER_01: that last thing i will say before we take a little intermission
50:08
SPEAKER_01: where you're gonna read the full job posting is that they don't so they they're
50:12
SPEAKER_01: a mom founded company amazing awesome they don't mention health benefits
50:19
SPEAKER_01: in this job posting yeah i found that weird
50:23
SPEAKER_01: what are you I can't even believe that they must I would hope
50:28
SPEAKER_01: that they offer benefits we say this again often on the podcast if you have perks
50:33
SPEAKER_01: and benefits list all of them you're trying to make it compelling for someone
50:38
SPEAKER_01: to want to join this organization and so one of your kind of boasting points is
50:43
SPEAKER_01: that your mom found a company
50:44
SPEAKER_01: then you should understand how important health benefits are
50:49
SPEAKER_01: uh and and they don't mention it and
50:51
SPEAKER_01: if you don't mention it i assume you don't have it and
50:53
SPEAKER_01: if you do have it you don't mention it then i assume that you're just kind
50:56
SPEAKER_00: of not right missed opportunity missed opportunity yeah and when you're
51:02
SPEAKER_00: when you're creating a culture that leans on a particular facet
51:08
SPEAKER_00: or something like you know mom founded mompreneur that sort of thing you can tie
51:13
SPEAKER_00: that into your your benefits package and your fringe very effectively
51:17
SPEAKER_00: without breaking the bank
51:19
SPEAKER_00: you know you can do like very targeted programs saying okay you know you've got
51:24
SPEAKER_00: small children at home let's give you a hundred dollar a month allowance for nappies
51:29
SPEAKER_00: the first like two years of your kid's life something like that that's going
51:33
SPEAKER_00: to cost you less than an equivalent health spending account
51:39
SPEAKER_00: for the kid right like you can do stuff like that and don't just do that
51:42
SPEAKER_00: but you can do stuff like that that's additive and target and builds the brand and
51:47
SPEAKER_00: if you don't do stuff like that you're really missing an opportunity
51:49
SPEAKER_00: but maybe they're not consciously trying to go for
51:52
SPEAKER_00: the mom founded mompreneur thing maybe it's just something
51:55
SPEAKER_00: that like this couple that's at the top that founded this company is like oh it's
51:59
SPEAKER_00: so impressive let's talk about it but it doesn't really matter to
52:02
SPEAKER_00: the culture it just matters to them because it's their background who knows
52:06
SPEAKER_01: yep and i also think one more missed opportunity when we talk about benefits
52:09
SPEAKER_01: and things like that is like what kind of equipment is this person going
52:12
SPEAKER_01: to have access to because this is a big ask that you have of them they need to have
52:16
SPEAKER_01: the right tools to be able to be successful in in seeing through those goals and
52:22
SPEAKER_01: so maybe talk about what what operating systems you use what kind
52:26
SPEAKER_01: of tech they're using are they going to have you know or
52:29
SPEAKER_01: indicate that you're going out of the way to make sure that they're set up
52:32
SPEAKER_01: for success to do their job properly and that's not mentioned there uh
52:36
SPEAKER_01: so i think any job that involves that kind of work it should talk about what kind
52:40
SPEAKER_01: of equipment is being provided so yeah there are definitely a few
52:43
SPEAKER_01: a few uh elements missing here
52:57
SPEAKER_01: so paul had a chance to review the job posting
53:00
SPEAKER_01: in full uh were there any new insights like reading it over from start
53:06
SPEAKER_00: to finish did it yeah you know one thing that i had missed when we were talking
53:10
SPEAKER_00: about it in the first run through was that you essentially get five weeks to
53:17
SPEAKER_00: of off time uh baked in like three weeks of your own vacation time plus the uh
53:21
SPEAKER_00: the two-week holiday office closure that's that's good that's uh that's that's kind
53:27
SPEAKER_00: of a big deal that's awesome you know that week between christmas
53:31
SPEAKER_00: and new year's like most people know that that's kind of a week off
53:35
SPEAKER_00: because like let's face it what actually happened and who is actually
53:41
SPEAKER_00: at their desk eight hours a day like giving
53:44
SPEAKER_00: their normal amount of attention not everybody that's for darn sure
53:49
SPEAKER_00: so like formalizing it and saying hey you're gonna get
53:52
SPEAKER_00: that two weeks plus your vacation week starting at three which is generous um for
53:57
SPEAKER_00: a starting uh kind of vacation allotment i missed that
54:00
SPEAKER_00: the first time around i did quite like that reading this through myself top
54:06
SPEAKER_00: to bottom
54:09
SPEAKER_00: i kind of have i have overall a favorable impression of it i have
54:12
SPEAKER_00: a favorable impression of it overall so you know when we're talking about scoring of
54:16
SPEAKER_00: the job ad you know we get these two buckets right like one is
54:18
SPEAKER_00: the job ad itself how is it written blah blah blah the other one is like how is
54:22
SPEAKER_00: the role design i'll just start with the job ad part of it
54:28
SPEAKER_00: a for effort for sure a for effort for sure like i do want to commend these folks
54:33
SPEAKER_00: for for really putting a a human centric person with a personality kind of like soul
54:44
SPEAKER_00: into this job ad i think they have the right mentality
54:48
SPEAKER_00: about it i think this is missing from a lot of job ads and i believe that companies
54:53
SPEAKER_00: that do this especially smaller companies that do this
54:58
SPEAKER_00: stand out when labor markets are tough for employers right now they're tough
55:03
SPEAKER_00: for employees so this stuff doesn't make as much of a difference but when
55:07
SPEAKER_00: the pendulum swings and it becomes difficult
55:09
SPEAKER_00: to attract talent having this skill set these muscles
55:12
SPEAKER_00: to do this really well it's like it's a big deal it gives you an edge so overall
55:17
SPEAKER_00: the job ad i'd give them like
55:19
SPEAKER_00: an eight it was pretty good it was well written it was clearly structured there were
55:23
SPEAKER_00: some weird things like there was something that was
55:26
SPEAKER_00: that was repeated twice there was that question they had
55:28
SPEAKER_00: where it was like okay do you mean 300 000 subscribers or 500 000 subscribers
55:35
SPEAKER_00: and it didn't really didn't really talk about the shift
55:38
SPEAKER_00: towards interest-based media versus social media you know having subscribers like
55:43
SPEAKER_00: growing a big subscriber base is a lot more difficult to do than it used
55:48
SPEAKER_00: to be it also matters a whole lot less than it used to
55:52
SPEAKER_00: because media isn't really social anymore it's interest-based so some stuff
55:57
SPEAKER_00: that was kind of missing from it you know it could have been better from
56:00
SPEAKER_00: that perspective but i'll still give them an eight because it was quite good
56:06
SPEAKER_00: and you know also recognizing that they missed the accommodation and inclusion stuff
56:09
SPEAKER_00: that we normally like to see they didn't put
56:10
SPEAKER_00: the salary they missed it role design it was tough to figure out in this
56:23
SPEAKER_00: where this person sits in the organization and
56:28
SPEAKER_00: maybe when they wrote this job ad they didn't really think about that
56:32
SPEAKER_00: because it's kind of on the smaller end of that 10 to 50 kind
56:36
SPEAKER_00: of spectrum you know maybe this is 20 people and in that case like figuring out
56:40
SPEAKER_00: where someone sits in the organization doesn't really matter all that much
56:44
SPEAKER_00: because you can all look at each other over your desks and like who cares but
56:50
SPEAKER_00: that is a pretty important part of role design
56:53
SPEAKER_00: you know it says we're going to be working pretty closely with
56:56
SPEAKER_00: the chief creative officer and there is just enough in here to make me think that
57:00
SPEAKER_00: the priorities are going to be conflicting and they're going
57:05
SPEAKER_00: to be structural friction points because of like personalities because
57:10
SPEAKER_00: of strategic outlook and whatever like they're really saying they want someone
57:13
SPEAKER_00: who knows how to grow a youtube channel but they're also saying
57:17
SPEAKER_00: but don't grow youtube channel using data grow a youtube channel
57:20
SPEAKER_00: by keeping it pretty and friendly and whatnot
57:24
SPEAKER_00: youtube doesn't play by those rules you know if you want your channel
57:27
SPEAKER_00: to grow you're gonna have to do stuff that you're not really comfortable
57:30
SPEAKER_00: with like not bad stuff but stuff that you're not comfortable with if you're
57:36
SPEAKER_00: a very buttoned down creative person who is like this is exactly how i want things
57:41
SPEAKER_00: to be this is the brand voice this is the style this is
57:44
SPEAKER_00: the design language never deviate if that's you
57:48
SPEAKER_00: this person is going to flame out. They're going
57:51
SPEAKER_00: to fail and they're going to be mad
57:52
SPEAKER_00: and you're going
57:53
SPEAKER_00: to be like, I just spent a salary
57:54
SPEAKER_00: on someone who couldn't actually do the job
57:57
SPEAKER_00: wasn't them it was you
57:58
SPEAKER_01: This yeah good point
58:00
SPEAKER_00: The role design
58:03
SPEAKER_00: the role design is tough
58:04
SPEAKER_00: I would give this probably
58:06
SPEAKER_00: a seven
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Just because we don't have enough
58:10
SPEAKER_00: clarity to really look at
58:12
SPEAKER_00: and think oh
58:13
SPEAKER_00: this is how it's gonna work
58:15
SPEAKER_00: It's ambiguous
58:16
SPEAKER_00: to me so
58:18
SPEAKER_01: eight and seven yeah uh interesting um same i
58:24
SPEAKER_01: so job ad i mean i would say maybe seven seven and
58:28
SPEAKER_01: a half it wasn't terrible like i didn't hate it sounds like we hate every single job
58:31
SPEAKER_01: posting but like the whole point is to dissect it and to you know pick pick i mean
58:37
SPEAKER_01: the show is called roast the post exactly and so i didn't actually hate it i think
58:43
SPEAKER_01: that there were a ton of um
58:46
SPEAKER_01: missed opportunities and yeah some some things that i didn't like that
58:50
SPEAKER_01: that you mentioned but i didn't think it was terrible i didn't think it was
58:53
SPEAKER_01: the worst i'm disappointed it just wasn't very uh it wasn't creative
58:58
SPEAKER_01: and yeah it just wasn't as fun as it could have been um so yeah i'd say like seven
59:04
SPEAKER_01: and a half out of ten for that we've definitely seen worse and this isn't it um
59:09
SPEAKER_01: role job design same without knowing too much information i'm going to make a ton
59:16
SPEAKER_01: of assumptions and in my head the story that i've created is that they are reporting
59:23
SPEAKER_01: to this chief creative officer we know that it's a co-founder because i know what
59:26
SPEAKER_01: the name of the company is and i think that there will be friction
59:30
SPEAKER_01: because i don't know if they've quite thought through
59:33
SPEAKER_01: what bringing this role on is going to look like and i think
59:36
SPEAKER_01: that this person is going to come up against it quite often so it's really hard
59:42
SPEAKER_01: for me to actually say what the job design rating would be out of 10
59:46
SPEAKER_01: but i would say like maybe maybe a six if i'm being generous uh
59:51
SPEAKER_00: so yeah that's that's how i feel about it this is definitely one where
59:57
SPEAKER_00: knowing and we talk a lot about like hey put in the report
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: to you know who's this who's this person going to be reporting to we talk about that
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: a lot because it's easy to do and it's a very clear signal um to to a job seeker of
1:00:11
SPEAKER_00: where this role is going to be situated in the organization but i would say
1:00:14
SPEAKER_00: with this one because of the nature of it what they're going
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: to do it would have been great to know the composition of the team
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: that they're going to be around right like if i'm if i'm a person who has grown
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: a youtube channel from zero to three hundred thousand
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: or five hundred thousand subscribers depending on which number you want
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: to believe one of them an operator one of the first things that i'm going
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: to be doing is like thinking all right what resources
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: are available you know what's what's in our kit what's in our playbook what are
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: the people that can be involved in growing this channel you know what's talk
1:00:53
SPEAKER_00: about like the cash budget for advertising and stuff later on down the road but
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: the first thing i'm thinking is like what do i have to work with because
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: if it's truly like there is nothing and i'm doing everything myself from scratch
1:01:07
SPEAKER_00: and it does hint at that maybe a little bit when it says you'll
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: you'll grow the team over time as the channel grows and you'll figure out
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: the resourcing there's something to that effect in there
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: though it doesn't very clearly say like you're it but if i was it i would want
1:01:23
SPEAKER_00: to know that versus like there's a graphic designer that can help me
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: with packaging uh with motion graphics whatever like that stuff i kind of want
1:01:31
SPEAKER_00: to know so that that could have made this a whole heck of a lot better because
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: an operator is going to think about that especially
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: an operator who's strategically minded
1:01:40
SPEAKER_01: I think there's one more little kind of thing to think about on this position is that because
1:01:44
SPEAKER_01: I know the name of the company, I can also tell you that they are currently hiring for
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: a head-of-brand role as well.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that is an interesting piece of information because what does that
1:02:01
SPEAKER_01: mean for this role?
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: What does that mean for the chief creative officer?
1:02:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm really interested in what that means for the chef creative officer and the head
1:02:07
SPEAKER_01: of brand more so than this head of YouTube role.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: um or is this person reporting into the head of brand so
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: so it's really interesting like you can go pretty pretty deep sometimes we have
1:02:17
SPEAKER_01: to stop ourselves because we just go down these rabbit holes of trying
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: to create this story another one that's another one where i'm like hmm this is
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: a small company why are you hiring a head of brand a head of brand
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: in canada is going to cost you between 150 175 000 a year um someone
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: who is experienced and is good
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: that money should go elsewhere for a company this size that's not um
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: and i mean i don't know who's on the team
1:02:49
SPEAKER_00: but uh i i have some i have i have some thoughts i have some thoughts about
1:02:56
SPEAKER_01: that you're welcome that i threw that at you at the very very end um
1:03:02
SPEAKER_01: but i think i think that that's it i i think we can consider this post roasted
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: thanks for joining us on another episode of roast the post
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