Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 289. CO2 Experts: Troubleshooting Carel Ejectors with Marcel Nishimori

Transcript

Episode 289. CO2 Experts: Troubleshooting Carel Ejectors with Marcel Nishimori · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Trevor: Welcome to another CO2 Expert Live. Once again, thank you for taking the time to come and join us on these live session. If you're listening on the podcast afterwards, I'll try my best to explain some of the slides. If not, go check out the YouTube channel, Refrigeration Mentor YouTube channel.
• 0:01
  Trevor: Welcome to another CO2 Expert Live. Once again, thank you for taking the time to come and join us on these live session. If you're listening on the podcast afterwards, I'll try my best to explain some of the slides. If not, go check out the YouTube channel, Refrigeration Mentor YouTube channel.
• 0:01
  And plus the social media, check out the LinkedIn or Instagram posts that we put, I always take cutaways. I've done a ton with Marcel before on their CO2 compressor, and it's really important to invest in yourself. And share this with other people. This is the big thing. So if you learn something here, go talk about it with somebody else.
• 0:01
  This is what I talk about all the time in our CO2 training programs, supermarket program, the things that you learn, go and try to share that knowledge and talk about it. Cause you got to see things seven to 11 times before you really start to grasp it. And today we're going to be getting into ejectors and we're going to be talking about.
• 0:01
  Different ways to do refrigeration. And I'm with my good friend, Marcel. He is an expert refrigeration. He's been supporting technicians and manufacturers from all around the world for a long time. And he's definitely an expert in his field. I'm super excited for this conversation. Marcel, welcome to CO2 experts live.
• 0:01
  How you doing brother?
• 0:01
  Marcel: Good to have her. Thank you for having me here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and share a little bit of our experience with CO2 applications.
• 0:02
  Marcel: Good to have her. Thank you for having me here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and share a little bit of our experience with CO2 applications.
• 0:02
  Trevor: I know last week we were down at the AHR Expo. There was a lot of people there on day one, like a ton of contractors, ton of technicians.
• 0:02
  Before we dive into ejectors, cause you had the ejector there. I talked with Giacomo Favre a little bit about it. We've done a video or two on the ejectors. This is going to be way more in depth. What was your thoughts of the event? So for AHR.
• 0:02
  Marcel: It was a great show. We, we were just discussing before, I think with all these transitions and the EPA regulations, people are really interested on discovering and understanding new technology.
• 0:02
  So the transition is here and it's now, so we just need to be there to support our customers to do it in an easier and smoother way as possible.
• 0:02
  Trevor: Yeah. I see, I seen this year more technicians than most years, which was great. I got the opportunity to meet a lot of students that take my CO2 course or my supermarket compressor program, which is great to see them out there getting out to these events are really, really important because you can meet people just like Marcel.
• 0:03
  Trevor: Yeah. I see, I seen this year more technicians than most years, which was great. I got the opportunity to meet a lot of students that take my CO2 course or my supermarket compressor program, which is great to see them out there getting out to these events are really, really important because you can meet people just like Marcel.
• 0:03
  Like I say, he's a, he's an expert in his field. He knows that a troubleshoot system, he is great on wiring diagrams and electrical troubleshooting. And this is why you want to get out to events and chat with people just like Marcel, because I'm sure you had great conversations. with some contractors and technicians over, like, those couple of days.
• 0:03
  Do you want to just, before we get into this talk about that interaction and the importance of getting to event, to meet people just like you, Mursell.
• 0:03
  Marcel: Yeah, I mean, the main point of the show was to meet some colleagues, some friends, some people that we interact, but also this mystifying most of the points here ejector, it is a new technology, but it's not a beast is something easy to understand what am I best to do it in a very easy way going today.
• 0:03
  So it is important to get the conversation going. So we yeah. Can let's say educate all the technicians out there. So when they see things in the field, they will not be scared, but they will know what the, what they are doing, what they need to do and what would be the easiest way to troubleshoot a system like this.
• 0:04
  So it is important to get the conversation going. So we yeah. Can let's say educate all the technicians out there. So when they see things in the field, they will not be scared, but they will know what the, what they are doing, what they need to do and what would be the easiest way to troubleshoot a system like this.
• 0:04
  It is not complex at all.
• 0:04
  Trevor: Yeah. I love it. And that's exactly what I say in our CO2 training programs is like, it may seem intimidating at first, but when you understand the theory behind it, and then you go and apply it, actually get your meter out, check it. You go through the parameters, you look at the trend graphs of it on actually what it's doing, makes it a lot easier, and this is kind of what we're going to be talking about today.
• 0:04
  Okay, great. So let's dive into it, Marcel.
• 0:04
  Marcel: Okay. So just to give you a little bit of context on what Carel is doing with natural solutions, Carel is a company that it's an Italian based company, and we have been doing natural solutions for a while now, like the transcritical solution that we have has been in the market for over 15 years now, and This is data from 2022, but I think today we should be around 14 or 15, 000 installation around the globe.
• 0:04
  So, and many of these installations done here in the U. S. So just, this is just to share a little bit what Carel is doing in terms of application and what we are investing in terms of new solutions. So natural solutions, something that for us makes a lot of sense. And we invest a lot of efforts, both from R& D and also in products to have the best technology as possible for that.
• 0:05
  So, and many of these installations done here in the U. S. So just, this is just to share a little bit what Carel is doing in terms of application and what we are investing in terms of new solutions. So natural solutions, something that for us makes a lot of sense. And we invest a lot of efforts, both from R& D and also in products to have the best technology as possible for that.
• 0:05
  Diving into our CO2 solution, we have a very wide range of capacities from very small condensing units to the big racks. Today I want to spend some time talking about our modulating ejectors. So a different type of ejector that you guys will see in the market. There will be the PWM versions, the fixed type versions, and ours are the modulating ones.
• 0:05
  So I want to go in deep and explain a little bit how it works, where it is installed, and why, mainly, why you should use an ejector on your transcritical system solution. If you like. Okay. So talking about Carel as a ejector. This is not a new technology for us. We have been selling ejectors and developing this project since 2016.
• 0:05
  So we have collected a lot of tons, a lot of feedback on these application and we are very confident that now that we are bringing this product to the U. S. It will be a huge success and it will be an easy installation from our customers. A couple comments on the ejector. So our version of the jet is a vapor ejector only.
• 0:06
  So we have collected a lot of tons, a lot of feedback on these application and we are very confident that now that we are bringing this product to the U. S. It will be a huge success and it will be an easy installation from our customers. A couple comments on the ejector. So our version of the jet is a vapor ejector only.
• 0:06
  So basically we admit low superheat, low superheat Repression, but not only liquid. Okay. And another difference on our ejector is that it's a modulating ejector. So we have an internal motor inside the ejector and with this motor, we can modulate the repression flow inside, inside it. And with that, we can reach the precise need for the system.
• 0:06
  So let's say the first. Feature or the first requirement of the ejectors to work as an HPV valve. So high pressure valve and a positive side effect is that we can use all this energy that we are expanding the CO2 throughout HPV or the ejector to make a small compression from medium temperature, refrigeration flow.
• 0:06
  And these logics are controlled by. Two different types of controllers. We can use the PRAC, our standard RAC controller for transcritical solutions, but Corel is also bringing to the market a new product called the Ejector Manager. So imagine a dedicated controller, a standalone that you could use it to drive Corel's ejectors, PWM ejectors, and make it integrated.
• 0:07
  And these logics are controlled by. Two different types of controllers. We can use the PRAC, our standard RAC controller for transcritical solutions, but Corel is also bringing to the market a new product called the Ejector Manager. So imagine a dedicated controller, a standalone that you could use it to drive Corel's ejectors, PWM ejectors, and make it integrated.
• 0:07
  To any type of control. So it could be Carel, could be any other brand of your preferred compressor control logics, and it, it'll be working seamless with all the, these type of technology. So talking about a little bit about ejector, why is it an ejector and how we should work? So let's start from the, the beginning.
• 0:07
  Normally when a compressor, when you have a compressor, you have the electrical power. So the energy coming from the. The electrical electrical leap making the compression from low pressure to high pressure side of the system, right? So you inject electrical power and then you make the compression.
• 0:07
  When we have an ejector, the difference here is that instead of having the electrical power as the main source of energy to make the compression, we can use the expansion of the refrigerant. So we are basically using the. high pressure side of the transcritical system to make a compression from the low pressure side.
• 0:08
  When we have an ejector, the difference here is that instead of having the electrical power as the main source of energy to make the compression, we can use the expansion of the refrigerant. So we are basically using the. high pressure side of the transcritical system to make a compression from the low pressure side.
• 0:08
  I will explain this better here in the next couple of slides. But the idea here is that we can basically free compress refrigerant without needing to add more electrical energy to that. So this is the main point. So we can be like energy saving when the system is performing at high pressure. So A lot of people ask me what, what technology is better?
• 0:08
  It's better to have an ejector? Is it better to have like a subcritical system? What if? So normally my, my answer for this type of question is that when you have a system that needs to operate at high ambient temperatures, like a Phoenix Arizona, where you have very high temperature for a certain period of the year.
• 0:09
  It's better to have an ejector? Is it better to have like a subcritical system? What if? So normally my, my answer for this type of question is that when you have a system that needs to operate at high ambient temperatures, like a Phoenix Arizona, where you have very high temperature for a certain period of the year.
• 0:09
  Every system down there will have a higher energy consumption. So what we can do is improve this energy consumption, adding some other technologies that can make more efficiency for the same energy power that you are consuming. If you compare transcritical system with ejector to a subcritical system, subcritical would be always be better, but not always you can get these like.
• 0:09
  Warm regions, Florida even Phoenix, Arizona. So all these regions where the, during summer, you have higher high ambient temperatures, you cannot operate with subcritical at that region. So ejector comes and makes a better effect on, on that type of region.
• 0:09
  Trevor: Yeah. So I did a, when I was at the HR show, I did a CO2 talk on high ambient strategies for retailers.
• 0:09
  And the biggest thing is, is that in our CO2 design course, because we train designers from all around the world to design CO2 system, we discussed that there's different strategies for different climate zones. So you can't just say, this is going to be one strategy that goes here and this one goes here.
• 0:10
  And the biggest thing is, is that in our CO2 design course, because we train designers from all around the world to design CO2 system, we discussed that there's different strategies for different climate zones. So you can't just say, this is going to be one strategy that goes here and this one goes here.
• 0:10
  And it's always like that. It's, you've got to put it into design to see if it's going to work. And so ejectors is great. For high Ami. So I'm here in Canada, right? So ejectors may not be the solution for a retail, like a supermarket system, you know, cause we're in subcritical most of the time ejectors are, you want to have high pressures, high temperatures.
• 0:10
  But what may get into it a little bit when I talk with some manufacturers, I like, well, if we're running on a CO2 heat pump, we're in transcritical all the time. So ejectors may be a good option for, for that in Canada. So we'll dive into that later, but this is the thing you want to really understand the different high ambient strategies.
• 0:10
  Ejectors is definitely one for really hot locations.
• 0:10
  Marcel: That's correct. So going into the ejector, so what is an ejector? Ejector, in our case, it is a device that we can take effect, a positive effect of the refrigerant at higher pressure. So when you have a refrigerant at higher pressure and higher temperature, and you need to expand it, you can, Can basically speed up the refrigerant inside this device, the ejector.
• 0:11
  Marcel: That's correct. So going into the ejector, so what is an ejector? Ejector, in our case, it is a device that we can take effect, a positive effect of the refrigerant at higher pressure. So when you have a refrigerant at higher pressure and higher temperature, and you need to expand it, you can, Can basically speed up the refrigerant inside this device, the ejector.
• 0:11
  And when we have a refrigerant at higher speed, you also create what we call a low pressure zone. So a zone inside the ejector where you can create a lower pressure and you can start dragging refrigerant from the medium temperature area. So if you'll see here in the picture, we have the three main components.
• 0:11
  We have the gas cooler pressure, the gas cooler outlet. Temperature that is defining and the mass flow that comes from the gas cooler. Once we have a very high mass flow here and a very high pressure, these expansion from the high pressure side, should the liquid receiver causes these what we call Venturi effect.
• 0:11
  So a low pressure zone. So we are able to start dragging part or total refrigerant from the medium temperature line. So medium temperature pressure and suction through the ejector and making a combination of that. So. This is the very basic principle of the ejector operation conditions. And in our case, we also have a third variable that here that is the opening degree.
• 0:12
  So a low pressure zone. So we are able to start dragging part or total refrigerant from the medium temperature line. So medium temperature pressure and suction through the ejector and making a combination of that. So. This is the very basic principle of the ejector operation conditions. And in our case, we also have a third variable that here that is the opening degree.
• 0:12
  So since we have an ejector that can open and close, we can control this mass flow, controlling the gas cooler pressure at our optimal point. So Even during summer conditions, and this would allow us to make the system controlling the pressure and as a positive effect, dragging refrigerant from the medium temperature lines.
• 0:12
  Okay. And as I mentioned, we have an ejector that is a vapor based only so. The geometry of the ejector are optimized for dragging vapor only. It would work if we have a small droplets of liquid inside the ejector, so low superheat, but it's maximum efficient, so maximum capacity of dragging refrigerant occurs when we have just vapor on that specific line.
• 0:12
  General rule of thumb and recommendation. We would like that here at the inlet of the suction port of the ejector We would have a superheat higher than 9 F as a as a reference. Okay So it means that on the case side you could have a lower superheat Because then from the case until the it comes to the rack you could increase a little bit this total superheat
• 0:13
  General rule of thumb and recommendation. We would like that here at the inlet of the suction port of the ejector We would have a superheat higher than 9 F as a as a reference. Okay So it means that on the case side you could have a lower superheat Because then from the case until the it comes to the rack you could increase a little bit this total superheat
• 0:13
  So coming internally, I have divided this presentation in a couple parts. So thinking about the the, the main, the motive or the gas cooler pressure. So the inlet from the gas cooler, what we have there, we have a higher pressure normally during summer conditions or warm ambience or heat pump application with a certain gas cooler outlet temperature.
• 0:13
  So the main function of the ejector will be regulating that pressure acting as a HPV valve. So in the case of Carel ejectors, we can totally replace the HPV valve with an ejector. You don't need to have two different components. And this is mainly because the ejector is able to control the pressure on the gas cooler.
• 0:13
  Okay, so I have a, a, a refrigerant with high pressure and high temperature normally passing through an expansion because the high pressure valve is an expansion device. And during this expansion, we are Also increasing the speed of refrigeration. So I create here a mass flow with high refrigerant flow that would generate some dragging effect.
• 0:14
  Okay, so I have a, a, a refrigerant with high pressure and high temperature normally passing through an expansion because the high pressure valve is an expansion device. And during this expansion, we are Also increasing the speed of refrigeration. So I create here a mass flow with high refrigerant flow that would generate some dragging effect.
• 0:14
  On the other port, on the suction port, coming from the medium temperature suction line, what we have, we have a refrigerant, let's say, around 400 PSI as a pressure, for medium temperature applications. And basically, when I make that expansion, I generate here, this area as you can see here, a low pressure And the refrigerant as people and as current, we will always go to the easiest path.
• 0:14
  So if the pressure is low, is more lower here, it will prefer to go to, to this path. So we create this zone with low pressure Conditions that we, the refrigerant flow will be preferred to come to this direction. Okay, and at this point, what we are doing here, we have a mixing area. So I have high refrigerant flow with high speed and high pressure.
• 0:15
  So if the pressure is low, is more lower here, it will prefer to go to, to this path. So we create this zone with low pressure Conditions that we, the refrigerant flow will be preferred to come to this direction. Okay, and at this point, what we are doing here, we have a mixing area. So I have high refrigerant flow with high speed and high pressure.
• 0:15
  We're reducing the pressure and I have this refrigerant. Coming from the medium temperature, low, low speed and increasing the speed. And here what we can, we come, we come to an average pressure that normally is the liquid receiver pressure from this combination. So I'm basically mixing the refrigerant that comes from the gas cooler and the refrigerant that comes from the suction port.
• 0:15
  We are mixing this inside the ejector and we are creating as a consequence, the liquid receiver pressure and mixing of CO2 refrigerant. So in this case gas cooler pressure will reduce the pressure and increase the speed section pressure will increase the pressure because we are compressing it from 400 psi to a higher liquid receiver pressure.
• 0:15
  Normally, I would say. For 60 to 500 PSI pressure range. So we are making a compressor and we are increasing now. So the speed of these refrigerant. Okay. So
• 0:16
  Normally, I would say. For 60 to 500 PSI pressure range. So we are making a compressor and we are increasing now. So the speed of these refrigerant. Okay. So
• 0:16
  Trevor: before we go on Marcel, just so people that are listening on the podcast basically the, the pictures that Marcel showed, you have the high pressure coming from that gas cooler.
• 0:16
  So it could be 1200 PSI, it could be 90 bar, whatever coming through there. And then on the outside of it, we have that medium temp suction, just like Marcel said, that is being pulled in there. From the high pressure and then now you have that mixing section that's going into your flash tank, your liquid receiver or your vessel.
• 0:16
  So thank you. Thank you, Marcel.
• 0:16
  Marcel: Yeah, and that's a good point, Trevor. Thanks for reminding me. And why the ejector is let's say we, we, we designed the ejector for high ambient temperatures. Because at high ambient temperatures, normally we also have a high pressure related to the gas cooler, right? And. As high as this delta pressure from the HPV on the gas cooler to the liquid receiver, higher is the capacity of dragging more repression.
• 0:17
  Marcel: Yeah, and that's a good point, Trevor. Thanks for reminding me. And why the ejector is let's say we, we, we designed the ejector for high ambient temperatures. Because at high ambient temperatures, normally we also have a high pressure related to the gas cooler, right? And. As high as this delta pressure from the HPV on the gas cooler to the liquid receiver, higher is the capacity of dragging more repression.
• 0:17
  So if you apply an ejector. Into a subcritical condition or in a mild or cold ambience, the ejector will keep be working as a high pressure valve, regulating it, try to control the pressure on the, sorry, on the gas cooler, or even making some subcooling, but since I have a very few delta pressure between the gas cooler to the liquid receiver, the capacity or the capability of dragging refrigerant are reduced, so the ejector effects are not There anymore and we'll the refrigerant will go through the suction, normal empty suction compressor line, because at that point there will be more lower pressure than the, the ejector point.
• 0:17
  Thank you for, for making this comment.
• 0:17
  Trevor: Yeah, no, that, that, that's, no, that's great because it, you need that high pressure to drag it, like you said, if not, and just say it's the middle of winter, you know, it's just going to work as a high pressure valve, just like you see out there today. Yeah, that's correct.
• 0:18
  Trevor: Yeah, no, that, that, that's, no, that's great because it, you need that high pressure to drag it, like you said, if not, and just say it's the middle of winter, you know, it's just going to work as a high pressure valve, just like you see out there today. Yeah, that's correct.
• 0:18
  Marcel: So we are making the mixing here and we have what we call momentum transfer. So I'm using this connect energy from a refrigerant at higher speed to drag and compress the other refrigerant. So at the end of the day, the total amount of energy is the same, but we are basically transferring the energy coming from the gas cooler refrigerant to the MET section line to increase its pressure.
• 0:18
  So. No magic here. It is just transferring the energy between the two different fluid conditions. And as a consequence, we have here the total flow that goes through the liquid receiver. And you might be asking what is the advantage of making this compression? I mean, why should I increase the amount of gas that I'm putting inside the liquid receiver?
• 0:18
  Right? So the, the point here is that you could use some, uh, piping diagrams. I will show you later to make the compression not from the compressor perspective, not from like the suction and M. T. 400 P. S. I. from the liquid receiver perspective. So all your compressors will be working as a parallel compressor.
• 0:19
  Right? So the, the point here is that you could use some, uh, piping diagrams. I will show you later to make the compression not from the compressor perspective, not from like the suction and M. T. 400 P. S. I. from the liquid receiver perspective. So all your compressors will be working as a parallel compressor.
• 0:19
  So you'll have a higher suction pressure, same discharge pressure. We cannot change that. So since the pressure compressor ratio is decreasing the amount of energy that you need, or mainly the amount of compressor that you need to have on to make that compression can be reduced. So that's where it comes the, the savings in terms of energy, because I'm, I'm getting a refrigerator at higher pressure to the compressor, so it will, the compressors will work less in terms of effort to make the compression.
• 0:19
  Trevor: Yeah. So for all the people that have been in my CO2 train pros, we talk about that. So you have that cycle, you've got compressor to your gas cooler, high pressure valve through a flash gas bypass valve back to the compressor. So there's really no work being done, but there's a lot of energy, especially in the middle of the summer on, you need more compression to pump all that flash gas.
• 0:19
  Now, when you have an ejector, instead of putting all that energy, just like Marcel said, right into those compressors. Now, now you're doing that less work. So you don't have that large compression ratio. And that's, that's what we talk about. This is even an HFC. You want to reduce the compression ratio as much as possible.
• 0:20
  Now, when you have an ejector, instead of putting all that energy, just like Marcel said, right into those compressors. Now, now you're doing that less work. So you don't have that large compression ratio. And that's, that's what we talk about. This is even an HFC. You want to reduce the compression ratio as much as possible.
• 0:20
  That reduces the work and reduces the energy. And that's kind of what, that's what the ejectors are doing.
• 0:20
  Marcel: And also as a positive effect, Trevor, we know that CO2 transcritical sometimes are, could be a little bit challenging because during summer you need an extra capacity for the compressors and during winter you have too much compressors that sometimes it's always hard to regulate the rack at that temperature.
• 0:20
  So the critical conditions using the ejector, you might be able to reduce the amount of compressors or at least reduce the sizings of your compressor. Since you would need less compressor during summer, and these would make your system more stable because when you have lower, a smaller compressor, you'll have more flexibility in terms of modulation.
• 0:20
  So you can reach that specific point to maintain the system running and the compressor on most of the time. Yeah.
• 0:20
  Trevor: And this all goes back to design. So this, if you're a technician out there, this is not what you got to worry about. The manufacturers that are listening, though, it goes back to design. Do you, do you meet every gap as if you're using ejectors and the different compressors?
• 0:21
  Trevor: And this all goes back to design. So this, if you're a technician out there, this is not what you got to worry about. The manufacturers that are listening, though, it goes back to design. Do you, do you meet every gap as if you're using ejectors and the different compressors?
• 0:21
  Because if you go with too small of compressors, maybe it had too big of a gaps, all the same size compressors, you may have big gaps. So. This goes back to the design when you're using ejectors and they got sizing softwares out there I've seen you know what I mean So you go into the sizing if you're a manufacturer and really plug it all in because you got to know the ambient you got To know the the climate.
• 0:21
  There's a lot there's a lot to it as a manufacturer, but when it's done, right It works really well.
• 0:21
  Marcel: So here I'm just showing you again what we are doing in terms of fixed conditions and consider that this example here, the, this first picture considering the, what we call a fixed ejector behavior. So there is no device metering the amount of flow from any of the parts. So what Carel does when we have Modulating ejector.
• 0:21
  We add here a needle inside the the flow that comes from the gas cooler side, and this needle will be used as on with a stepper motor to control the flow inside the ejector. So With this needle, it is what gives us the capability for the ejector to act as an HPV valve in all the conditions. So this needle will be controlling the gas, the gas cooler flow over to the liquid receiver and will be adjusting the pressure according to what's needed.
• 0:22
  We add here a needle inside the the flow that comes from the gas cooler side, and this needle will be used as on with a stepper motor to control the flow inside the ejector. So With this needle, it is what gives us the capability for the ejector to act as an HPV valve in all the conditions. So this needle will be controlling the gas, the gas cooler flow over to the liquid receiver and will be adjusting the pressure according to what's needed.
• 0:22
  Let me show you here very quick what we are talking. So seeing here, you can see sharing,
• 0:22
  Trevor: sharing your screen for a second so everybody can see the full screen. Okay, go ahead.
• 0:22
  Marcel: So this is the ejector of Carel. So we have our body. The gas cooler flow comes from this direction and we have the suction coming from this direction.
• 0:22
  If you see also the geometry of the ejector would allow the suction from empty to be more fluid inside the ejector. And here it is what we call our cartridge and it works with the same principle as bipolar drive. It In fact, this motor is like a bipolar that Carel manufacturers and here you can see that I have the needle and the needle is controlling the amount of refrigerant flow that can pass us through the ejector.
• 0:23
  If you see also the geometry of the ejector would allow the suction from empty to be more fluid inside the ejector. And here it is what we call our cartridge and it works with the same principle as bipolar drive. It In fact, this motor is like a bipolar that Carel manufacturers and here you can see that I have the needle and the needle is controlling the amount of refrigerant flow that can pass us through the ejector.
• 0:23
  So this needle can go up and down and make sure that we have the precise refrigerant flow that we need for that specific application. And this is what it is controlling and the ejector will take effect from this part from the suction line.
• 0:23
  Trevor: So I can't see on the, on there, cause it's not zoomed in, but is there a screen or anything there?
• 0:23
  Cause I know there's a lot of high pressure valves that like in our CO2 trains, guys are sending me pictures and the high pressure plow is just gummed up with stuff that shouldn't be in the system, you know, on a carbon and stuff. Is there a screen on that one? I couldn't see or not.
• 0:23
  Marcel: Now this is specific one.
• 0:23
  We don't have it. So it's an open area. So one, when we are designing these systems with our customers, we always recommend them to have a filter prior to the ejector inlet. There is no need to have like there we go. Process to run the system before activating the ejector during a commissioning, but you would be recommended to have a filter before the ejector to restrict any Dirtiness that could be inside the system.
• 0:24
  We don't have it. So it's an open area. So one, when we are designing these systems with our customers, we always recommend them to have a filter prior to the ejector inlet. There is no need to have like there we go. Process to run the system before activating the ejector during a commissioning, but you would be recommended to have a filter before the ejector to restrict any Dirtiness that could be inside the system.
• 0:24
  I've been into some sites and I can testify what you are saying. Most of the times we might find a couple of dust dirtiness inside the system. So filter before the ejector is highly recommended or even not mandatory to the better performance of the system.
• 0:24
  Trevor: Yeah. And that's in your instruction manuals too.
• 0:24
  It recommends that. And this is, this is something that we're not, we're not supposed to have dirt in the system, but it consistently happens. So make sure you protect the most important components. And if you have a, have your high pressure valve go down, you're going to have on your CO2 system, you're going to be in a big trouble for that day.
• 0:24
  That's for sure. So make sure you always check that. And that's there and most manufacturers are doing it. But you know what I mean? I've been to dozens and dozens of sites and they have strainers or filters ahead of them. So thank you for that, Marcel.
• 0:25
  That's for sure. So make sure you always check that. And that's there and most manufacturers are doing it. But you know what I mean? I've been to dozens and dozens of sites and they have strainers or filters ahead of them. So thank you for that, Marcel.
• 0:25
  Marcel: So, and how we control this needle, we have here the stator.
• 0:25
  So it's the same as our electronics. A little lower, Marcel. It's just blurry. No, lower. Yeah, there we go. Here, here. Down. Yeah, right there. Okay, so we have our stator is the same as our stepper motor valves for the turn expansion module, and this motor can be connected to a bipolar driver, Carel driver, and we can control, adjust precisely the flow that we have inside the ejector.
• 0:25
  Let me come back to the presentation, and then we can talk more about all the other stuff. I have a lot of small things here I want to show you guys today.
• 0:25
  Trevor: Thanks for sharing that. That's the first time I've seen it and I've seen them at the show before, but I never seen them apart because for some reason that the shows are, they're all screwed in tight.
• 0:25
  So thank you.
• 0:25
  Marcel: So here, and we have this moving needle making the adjustment of the flows. And this is the spec of our ejector. So it's a device for sure rated for higher pressures. You can use into transcritical conditions, no limitation. It has the same protections as our electronic suspension valves it's well certified.
• 0:26
  Marcel: So here, and we have this moving needle making the adjustment of the flows. And this is the spec of our ejector. So it's a device for sure rated for higher pressures. You can use into transcritical conditions, no limitation. It has the same protections as our electronic suspension valves it's well certified.
• 0:26
  So we are really ready to start this product inside the U S market. I can tell you that we have multiple OEMs testing these into laboratories. So if you are a technician, be prepared, but. For this year, most probably you will start seeing more and more ejectors in the field. We have a couple of installations already done, and you will see more and more of this technology going.
• 0:26
  Now that The OEMs got the knowledge about transcritical system. They are trying to improve their units with like ejector technology. And talking about the system. So I have my compressor pack there. I have my rack. Where should I install the ejector? How should I pipe it? How should be installed and so on.
• 0:26
  So basically here, I put a diagram on how to install an ejector, how the ejector will be installed when you see in the field. We have our empty compressor line going through the gas cooler. You see that I put just the main components that are many other like filters, oil separator and so on, but main components.
• 0:27
  So basically here, I put a diagram on how to install an ejector, how the ejector will be installed when you see in the field. We have our empty compressor line going through the gas cooler. You see that I put just the main components that are many other like filters, oil separator and so on, but main components.
• 0:27
  And then from the gas cooler we have the ejector coming into the from the gas cooler, we have the pipe coming into the ejector here. So as I mentioned, the main function of the ejector will be working as high pressure valve. So during the all the conditions, ejector will be controlled. So the logics.
• 0:27
  residing Ejection Manager, are prioritizing the control of the gas cooler pressure here. So we are making the expansion. And here you can see that my MET cabinets, so MET cases, the line is split into two different pipings. One that goes to the suction MET, Combining with the LT line and the other is coming from DM, DMT cases and going to the ejectors, if you'll see here, we have two new components here, two check valves, and why we have these check valves here because of the effect of the ejector.
• 0:27
  So during summer here, these on, we will be calling as a low pressure zone. Let me just go. Then I will come back during summer. We have these low pressures on here. So we have a higher pressure on the ejector. I put here 1300 psi just as an example and 460 on liquid receiver. So I have a big delta. So it means I have a lot of energy to be transferred to the section line.
• 0:28
  So during summer here, these on, we will be calling as a low pressure zone. Let me just go. Then I will come back during summer. We have these low pressures on here. So we have a higher pressure on the ejector. I put here 1300 psi just as an example and 460 on liquid receiver. So I have a big delta. So it means I have a lot of energy to be transferred to the section line.
• 0:28
  So I have a low pressures on here and the preferred path for the empty flow will be going from the cabinet. to the ejector port. So during summer, I can also get 100 percent of the flow from all my empty cases going, empty evaporators, cases, walk ins, going to the ejector port here. So I'm having a free compression.
• 0:28
  And then from the liquid receiver, like 406 PSI, going straight to the compressor. We will see that we have a dedicated flash gas bypass logic. to make sure that when we are engaged, so ejector mode, the flow here will have a very, very low pressure drop at the flash gas bypass valve. So all the refrigerant will go here.
• 0:29
  And then from the liquid receiver, like 406 PSI, going straight to the compressor. We will see that we have a dedicated flash gas bypass logic. to make sure that when we are engaged, so ejector mode, the flow here will have a very, very low pressure drop at the flash gas bypass valve. So all the refrigerant will go here.
• 0:29
  And at this point, these suction pressure will be higher. And we need that check valve here to avoid flow fluid flow back from the empty line to the empty suction cases. So this is the reason why, why we have this. Check valve here. Okay, that makes
• 0:29
  Trevor: sense because you're running your medium temp say 400 psi and that's 460 coming from the ejector So you don't it totally makes sense
• 0:29
  Marcel: so we can increase the pressure on the P on the MT suction line And we start getting more benefit from the ejector and on the other side When I'm during the winter, I have like a mild condition on the gas cooler.
• 0:29
  So here I'm saying like 800 psi as an example, it could be any pressure. Then I don't have that much energy to be wasted here on the high pressure valve during the expansion. So I cannot have a lower pressures on here. So at this point. The suction here at the compressor side will have a lower pressure, so the preferred path for the refrigerant will be going here, right, and not going on the ejector directions.
• 0:30
  So here I'm saying like 800 psi as an example, it could be any pressure. Then I don't have that much energy to be wasted here on the high pressure valve during the expansion. So I cannot have a lower pressures on here. So at this point. The suction here at the compressor side will have a lower pressure, so the preferred path for the refrigerant will be going here, right, and not going on the ejector directions.
• 0:30
  And at this point, this check valve makes more effect because I would avoid the flow back from the ejector. Remember that I have the needle controlling the flow from the gas cooler, but Here from the liquid receiver and this port, we are pretty much at the same pressures if I don't have the ejector pad.
• 0:30
  So I would have higher pressure and this check valve would avoid fluid back. So you can see that from a component perspective, adding an ejector to your system. We just need to have more pipe because we need to connect the suction line to the ejector port and two different components. No complexity here.
• 0:31
  So I would have higher pressure and this check valve would avoid fluid back. So you can see that from a component perspective, adding an ejector to your system. We just need to have more pipe because we need to connect the suction line to the ejector port and two different components. No complexity here.
• 0:31
  It becomes the very same booster system that you guys are normally able to see in any transcritical rack Yeah, okay Let me just come back here. And so another positive effect with using Carel Ejector, it is that this is, everything is done similar seamless. So you don't need to go there and change a parameter to make it ejector mode or make it traditional booster rack mode.
• 0:31
  It will be done accordingly to the external conditions and the system will be adjusting by its own. So when the ejector can be working, it will work because I just have mechanical components, check valves here. So Less failure points, less wiring things to check during a troubleshooting and everything here is like basically thermodynamically done.
• 0:31
  So it will operate to one side or to the other in a simplistic way. In the past, we had like more complex logics with more components, but this is the best with this new simplified layout. It makes much more easier for the technician and also easier for the design. How how to make it Connect them and make it more efficient.
• 0:32
  So it will operate to one side or to the other in a simplistic way. In the past, we had like more complex logics with more components, but this is the best with this new simplified layout. It makes much more easier for the technician and also easier for the design. How how to make it Connect them and make it more efficient.
• 0:32
  Okay. Trevor: Yeah, no, and that makes sense. Like the biggest thing is, is that if you're working on booster systems today and you have an electronic valve as your high pressure valve, this here is just another high pressure valve. It looks a little bit different than maybe what you're normally looking at. But It's it's the it's the same as a it's the same.
• 0:32
  It's just a it's a valve that's opening and closing by as electrical signal by a couple of different sensors, pressure sensors and temperature sensors to say we need to open up a bit more. We need to close off a little bit more. That goes back to a controller. So this is why understanding controls is so, so important.
• 0:32
  We talked about this in our co2 trainings is important. Find out about that controller, understand how it was set up. You know a lot of times when a system is set up as well, properly, even with this, like an ejector, maybe new, if it was set up right, the first time you don't need to go in and start playing around with the parameters, right.
• 0:33
  We talked about this in our co2 trainings is important. Find out about that controller, understand how it was set up. You know a lot of times when a system is set up as well, properly, even with this, like an ejector, maybe new, if it was set up right, the first time you don't need to go in and start playing around with the parameters, right.
• 0:33
  It's usually mechanical issue that's happening. There's issue like a. Plug strainer or something
• 0:33
  Marcel: and thank you for for mentioning about the software. This is another advantage on this new layout is that the ejector functions are already present on the standard software. So no new custom software dedicated just for ejector.
• 0:33
  Since the ejector is mainly operating as an HPV valve, you will see the ejectors percentage opening and close as the HPV valve. So from a technician that already knows Carel controls or have already interacted with Carel systems it will be easy going because There was no special software for that.
• 0:33
  And it will be everything in the same in the same package for the new solutions with the ejector manager, there will be a dedicated controller where you can check all the electrical all the parameters and everything related to transcritical valves control. And one of these valves. would be the ejector one.
• 0:34
  And it will be everything in the same in the same package for the new solutions with the ejector manager, there will be a dedicated controller where you can check all the electrical all the parameters and everything related to transcritical valves control. And one of these valves. would be the ejector one.
• 0:34
  And okay, so I showed you how it works on the mechanical side, but how the controls understands if it can increases the pressure, decreases the pressure, speed up the compressor, speed down, and so on. So how this magic occurs. This is done with the software with an addition of just one pressure probe, additional to what the standard system is.
• 0:34
  So if you see a traditional system, you have a suction pressure probe here connected to the MET line that could be the same as the discharge LT. Same pressure here. We normally have this pressure probe controlling the compressors. And then we have this P2 pressure probe here. So the, you can receive a pressure probe controlling the pressure and driving the flash gigahertz bypass valve.
• 0:34
  Okay, so this is the standard booster system. What we add here, since we have a check valve and this pressure at the cabinet or cases could be different from the pressure here to the suction side. We add another pressure probe here called the pressure cases pressure probe or cabinet pressure probe.
• 0:35
  Okay, so this is the standard booster system. What we add here, since we have a check valve and this pressure at the cabinet or cases could be different from the pressure here to the suction side. We add another pressure probe here called the pressure cases pressure probe or cabinet pressure probe.
• 0:35
  So it means I'm monitoring the pressure that comes from the sales floor. So from the cases to understand if my pressure is regulated, that point or not. Independently what I'm seeing here in the compressor since it could be a little bit higher. So basically what we have a Carel controllers, it has a internal lodge to monitor these two different set two different pressure probes with two different set points and make sure that the compressor will be always engaged in maintaining what requires more capacity.
• 0:35
  So in case If these pressure probes here, the cases are not satisfied in terms of pressure, like I'm not hitching here. The 400 PSI that I need, the compressor will speed up because I have a loop here looking for this pressure and if this is satisfied, I will be controlling from the suction pressure that could be at higher higher set point.
• 0:36
  So in case If these pressure probes here, the cases are not satisfied in terms of pressure, like I'm not hitching here. The 400 PSI that I need, the compressor will speed up because I have a loop here looking for this pressure and if this is satisfied, I will be controlling from the suction pressure that could be at higher higher set point.
• 0:36
  So this is what I get the most efficient. So standard MT. Pressure probe. Oh, sorry. And the P3 here, the P1 here, the additional pressure probe that we will add. So you'll see I'm adding more efficiency to the system, less complexity on the mechanical side and less complexity on the electronic side. It's just one of the pressure probe that we are adding to the system.
• 0:36
  And from the case perspective, you could have any controller in the case, anything in the case that you don't. Mandatory need to have it connected. If you have it connected we can have better efficiency, better performance, but it's not mandatory. You could have this connected to Carel controls or to third party control.
• 0:36
  So we are really flexible in the way we are controlling things so we can provide the maximum flexibility to our customers. Fantastic. And so the capacity of the compressors, they will be managed independently by these two different probes, P1 and P3. And we are always making sure that we are satisfying pressures on both ends.
• 0:37
  So we are really flexible in the way we are controlling things so we can provide the maximum flexibility to our customers. Fantastic. And so the capacity of the compressors, they will be managed independently by these two different probes, P1 and P3. And we are always making sure that we are satisfying pressures on both ends.
• 0:37
  So for example it might come depending on the type of the system that my empty load. Could go to defrost, so I don't have a requirement from empty cases or evaporator, and I still have a load from LT, so I can keep my pressure running because I have a P3 probe looking for the pressure at the discharge LT and suction MT, and making sure that that line is also satisfied.
• 0:37
  So we have a lot of internal logics to protect it. And normally what we do is we control these compressors from two different types of logics. Neutral zone, when I have more than one compressor, so to avoid cycling of the compressors. And PNI, when I have one only variable speed compressor to adjust the capacity and make it more precise as possible.
• 0:37
  Trevor: Yeah, makes sense.
• 0:37
  Marcel: So, Summer, as we mentioned here, we have this higher pressure coming from the gas cooler, transferring this energy into compression from the suction MT, and my mass flow will go partially or 100 percent through the ejector port of the system here. So, this is where we have a lower pressure compared to the, to the system here, okay?
• 0:38
  Marcel: So, Summer, as we mentioned here, we have this higher pressure coming from the gas cooler, transferring this energy into compression from the suction MT, and my mass flow will go partially or 100 percent through the ejector port of the system here. So, this is where we have a lower pressure compared to the, to the system here, okay?
• 0:38
  Yeah. So, it makes sense. Compared to the empty safety conditions, as I mentioned, so if I have all my loads empty in defrost, if I have any problem with empty line and I need still need to have my L T line running, I have the P three probe checking the pressure at that point and making sure that we are maintaining the pressure for the low temp compressors.
• 0:38
  I would say that in this case, P three will be always be driven by as a protection device and a higher set Point to maintain things in the right conditions.
• 0:38
  Trevor: So that would mean kind of like, if you get a really low load condition, all the curtains are pulled down, all the low temp cases are satisfied. And it's like, cause a lot of people are like, Oh, well, they worry about high temperature outside hot days.
• 0:39
  Trevor: So that would mean kind of like, if you get a really low load condition, all the curtains are pulled down, all the low temp cases are satisfied. And it's like, cause a lot of people are like, Oh, well, they worry about high temperature outside hot days. I think I've seen more people, especially in our training programs, CO2 training programs, where it's, a lot of issues are happening when it's super cold out. Like, and they don't think about that because everything satisfies and shuts off and that's not good for a system, especially a booster system. You need something to run.
• 0:39
  So, for this example, it'll be like the ejector will send some more discharge gas to, through the flash gas valve to keep the suction pressure up on the medium tap. Is that correct?
• 0:39
  Marcel: Yeah. So if you have a cold and ambient conditions, like outside is colder and the cases are good, normally what you're going to have here is that you have, let me pull here the low temperature conditions.
• 0:39
  So during winter conditions, if you have like a very cold night, the pressure on the gas cooler will be lower. So the energy to pull refrigerant from here will be reduced or almost zero. And then the amount of refrigerant here, the H, the ejector will be working as an HPV only controlling the pressure.
• 0:39
  The liquid receiver will be always continuing maintaining the pressure here and depending on conditions could be almost closed. Empty lines could be closed and due to the curtains if it's night and so on. So OLT line will be compressing here and maintaining the pressure here based on this P3 probe. If I have a few cabinets cases on and running, it will come to this direction.
• 0:40
  The liquid receiver will be always continuing maintaining the pressure here and depending on conditions could be almost closed. Empty lines could be closed and due to the curtains if it's night and so on. So OLT line will be compressing here and maintaining the pressure here based on this P3 probe. If I have a few cabinets cases on and running, it will come to this direction.
• 0:40
  Yeah. I'm not sure if I answered your question. Yeah, that totally makes sense. So, yeah we, we foresee all the conditions and we have tested these in Northern Europe as well. So even that ejector are not the, has the best effective in colder ambience, there are some customers that they standardize ejectors because it's simple for them to have one model of systems and one only design of units.
• 0:40
  So they. Could install ejectors everywhere. And since the ejector can be adapted to different conditions, you don't need to take care if it's winter or cold when it's warm and sunny, you're going to have the fact when it's not, it will operate as a traditional rack. So no big deal, even for the high Delta temperatures that we have here in the West, that summer that are really, really hot winters that you can have like a freezing temperatures.
• 0:41
  So they. Could install ejectors everywhere. And since the ejector can be adapted to different conditions, you don't need to take care if it's winter or cold when it's warm and sunny, you're going to have the fact when it's not, it will operate as a traditional rack. So no big deal, even for the high Delta temperatures that we have here in the West, that summer that are really, really hot winters that you can have like a freezing temperatures.
• 0:41
  So. No problem at all. Something you're probably still getting used to. Sorry? Something that you're probably getting used to in Atlanta. Oh yeah. Well, we had our first snow like three weeks ago and it was super nice. I came from Brazil so I'm still playing with the snow and I'm still finding it funny. I love it.
• 0:41
  I love it. Okay, let's, let's keep going. Okay, so, and, So different conditions, the ejector will be adjusting for different behaviors. So when it comes to the ejector effect, we, we are maximizing efficiency with HPV valve. And what about the flash gas? What is the role of the role of the flash gas into this ejector world?
• 0:41
  It should operate with a fixed set, fixed set point with different ones. So what we can do to improve the efficiency. Ejectors, they have a characteristic that Pressure increase from cabinets to liquid receiver, we call it lift. So the pressure that we are gaining with the ejector effect, we call lift.
• 0:42
  It should operate with a fixed set, fixed set point with different ones. So what we can do to improve the efficiency. Ejectors, they have a characteristic that Pressure increase from cabinets to liquid receiver, we call it lift. So the pressure that we are gaining with the ejector effect, we call lift.
• 0:42
  And we have a very curious particular behaviors that as much lift I gain, so increasing pressure again. Lower the mass flow I have. So we need to play on this with design basically to make sure that we have enough flow going through the ejector and making sure that we gain the maximum lift. So the maximum pressure increase that we can with the ejector effect.
• 0:42
  Okay. And we can control this using the flash gas bypass valve here. So with Cabal controls, what we do, we have a dynamic flash gas set point. Almost similar what we have with the gas cooler pressure that we know that we don't have a fixed pressure set point for the gas cooler, but we have an optimal one.
• 0:42
  So the gas liquid the flash gas bypass valve does the same. During summer, we will modulate it and try to find the sweet spot where we can maximize the mass flow. and gaining the maximum pressure that we can. And this normally would be above 45 psi. So making sure that we have a very higher lift as possible.
• 0:43
  So the gas liquid the flash gas bypass valve does the same. During summer, we will modulate it and try to find the sweet spot where we can maximize the mass flow. and gaining the maximum pressure that we can. And this normally would be above 45 psi. So making sure that we have a very higher lift as possible.
• 0:43
  And during winter, what we will do is we change the logic of the high pressure valve, sorry, the flash gas bypass valve, and we will control it to maintain the pressure on the liquid receiver. So to maintain the minimum delta that we need to do to. To let's say, cover the pressure drop on the expansion valves here, both MT and LT.
• 0:43
  Mainly MT, since LT we have a bigger pressure delta. So, the receiver management will be with a dynamic set point, and we calculate this based on the pressure on this on this pressure here. So, we will try to maintain a lift here, always to maintain a pressure delta, that would make an increase in pressure based on this pressure here.
• 0:43
  So it will be floating based on the case cabinet pressure. Does it make sense?
• 0:44
  So it will be floating based on the case cabinet pressure. Does it make sense?
• 0:44
  Trevor: Like in the summertime, you're going to, you're going to want to run that medium temp suction closer to the flash tank because now you've got a higher suction pressure, less work on the compressor. And that's why the flash gas bypass will be open.
• 0:44
  And then in the summer, in the winter time, it's just going to be working as a regular booster system right now, high pressure fell and the flash gas will be just maintaining that. That flash gas pressure to the deep flow.
• 0:44
  Marcel: Perfect. That's, that's correct. So you can imagine that once we have the ejector effect engaged, so I have the mass flow.
• 0:44
  So the, all the refrigerant coming from the gas cooler, all the refrigerant coming to the ejector port, the amount of CO2 vapor here that liquid receiver will increase, right? Because you have a dual source of a vapor coming from two different parts of the system. So, normally what you should do. This valve, the flash gas bypass valve, during summer it will be fully open to reduce the maximum pressure drop that we can do here.
• 0:45
  So the, all the refrigerant coming from the gas cooler, all the refrigerant coming to the ejector port, the amount of CO2 vapor here that liquid receiver will increase, right? Because you have a dual source of a vapor coming from two different parts of the system. So, normally what you should do. This valve, the flash gas bypass valve, during summer it will be fully open to reduce the maximum pressure drop that we can do here.
• 0:45
  But sometimes a valve has its limitations, so you cannot go very low in pressure drop. So what you can do. Carel has an internal logic that we can activate a parallel solenoid valve. Bypassing the bypass valve. So we have here a valve that's bigger than our hyper bypass valve and would reduce almost to zero or very close to zero, the pressure drop that we are going through this valve.
• 0:45
  And this valve it's activated always when we have flash gas bypass valve open for. a certain percentage for a certain time. And we will make sure that at that point during summer, we really need all the gas passing through these valves and reducing the pressure and increasing the pressure here at the liquid receiver.
• 0:45
  So this would make our system even more efficient because we are not expanding to compress again. We are just compressing directly from the liquid receiver. With these sequences of operation and logics, you can consider, Trevor, that. All your empty compressors in your rack will be operating as a parallel line.
• 0:46
  So this would make our system even more efficient because we are not expanding to compress again. We are just compressing directly from the liquid receiver. With these sequences of operation and logics, you can consider, Trevor, that. All your empty compressors in your rack will be operating as a parallel line.
• 0:46
  So that's another benefit that with this layout, with this design, with Carel technology, you would avoid to have a parallel compressor sitting there to operate a couple hours per year. You could use your own empty compressor that's right there to be maximized at this efficiency.
• 0:46
  Trevor: Yeah. And so this is, this is more for the manufacturer side when you're designing with ejector for a technician, it's just an extra solenoid to actually go around the valve.
• 0:46
  So there's less pressure drop. That's it. So it's no, not a component that you've never seen before. It's just an extra solenoid. So yeah. Makes sense. That's correct.
• 0:46
  Marcel: So I mean, this is the overall and introduction about the ejector. And let's talk about the installation. So what should I take care if I need to replace an ejector in the field?
• 0:46
  What precautions I need to have. What are the main concerns on ejector? From a mechanical perspective, it's really similar to a valve. I was talking to R& D. I said, Oh, okay. Ejector is a valve. No, ejector is not a valve, but for sake of simplicity, we can consider that it's very similar to a valve on the mechanical installation.
• 0:47
  What precautions I need to have. What are the main concerns on ejector? From a mechanical perspective, it's really similar to a valve. I was talking to R& D. I said, Oh, okay. Ejector is a valve. No, ejector is not a valve, but for sake of simplicity, we can consider that it's very similar to a valve on the mechanical installation.
• 0:47
  So what precautions you need to have when you are welding the valve, first thing. You need to weld it with a wet rag here, so to cool down the internal components. The same principle as a solenoid valve, as an electronic expansion valve, or even a thermostatic. This is to avoid the heat propagation inside the components and might the damage it.
• 0:47
  Another main point is that ejector are serviceable. So you basically can remove the cartridge and make the installation of the ejector without the cartridge. So you don't will deform or damage the O rings that we have inside it. So I, we strongly we recommend it's mandatory to remove it. So you can just wet rag here.
• 0:47
  And then making your weldings as a traditional system. Another thing, if we're installing an ejector, it is the position. This is more for the OEM perspective on the installation side. So you should not install it backwards. It should install always the vertical or in a horizontal position. OK, so
• 0:48
  And then making your weldings as a traditional system. Another thing, if we're installing an ejector, it is the position. This is more for the OEM perspective on the installation side. So you should not install it backwards. It should install always the vertical or in a horizontal position. OK, so
• 0:48
  Trevor: motor up, make it horizontal.
• 0:48
  Yep. Motor up and or horizontal. Makes sense. Yep.
• 0:48
  Marcel: Another thing is that we have here an unstator. So this is a bipolar motor that we have inside the ejector. We have the contacts here and here we have a kind of a seal gasket that we have with the ejector. So once you are installing it, we strongly recommend to have the nut here well pressed to avoid any water inside this coil that would damage the coil itself.
• 0:48
  Okay, so we have the right port on the manual, but if you close it enough and you see some no void areas, this should be enough for the tightening. And last but not least. eject the stator. It is a bipolar motor. So we have, you can see here that we have four terminal connections and they are identified.
• 0:49
  Okay, so we have the right port on the manual, but if you close it enough and you see some no void areas, this should be enough for the tightening. And last but not least. eject the stator. It is a bipolar motor. So we have, you can see here that we have four terminal connections and they are identified.
• 0:49
  You should not connect in any direction. We have a correct direction for installation. And if you can see, I don't know if you can see in the camera, But we have a pin here that is bigger than the other, so if you don't force it, it will not enter, but I have seen multiple times, you know, you are in a hurry, you didn't pay attention, and you forced it, and it will enter, will deform the connectors, but this would not be the right way to install the valve.
• 0:49
  If you install with this new model of coil, the cable will always go towards the bottom. And if you have the old model, it will always go towards the L of Carel on the, on the valve. So it's a, let's say an easy way to identify how to install it. It has the, the right the proper way to install the the, the cable to the coil.
• 0:49
  Trevor: What a coincidence. All this is in the manual. Yeah, all of it is in the instruction manual. You gotta take a look at it. And follow that. Okay.
• 0:50
  Trevor: What a coincidence. All this is in the manual. Yeah, all of it is in the instruction manual. You gotta take a look at it. And follow that. Okay.
• 0:50
  Marcel: And from the driver installation, what will drive the ejector? So what are the controllers? I have here what we call the EVD driver. So this is a driver for bipolar motors.
• 0:50
  We can use this for Carel or third part valves. And it has their own display. With this device, it can be used both for superheat control, but in this case, we are using it for driving the ejectors. You can see here that I put the colors because this is another common mistake on installation. So, make sure that once you have wired it, it will follow the right color sequence as indicated here.
• 0:50
  One positive thing is that when you are programming DVD, the last screen of the initial programming is the sequence of colors that you need to do with the wires. And this is one of the main points of failure in the field Trevor, I was talking to you before I've been to this transcritical site last year, and I was like, I asked the people there it's everything is right.
• 0:51
  One positive thing is that when you are programming DVD, the last screen of the initial programming is the sequence of colors that you need to do with the wires. And this is one of the main points of failure in the field Trevor, I was talking to you before I've been to this transcritical site last year, and I was like, I asked the people there it's everything is right.
• 0:51
  It's wired. It's working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No problem. Then I start playing with the parameter because the rack was not responding and so on and so forth. And when we check it, we had this splice in the middle of the way and the cables were reversed. And so when the valve was asking to open the valve, in fact, it was closing and the opposite.
• 0:51
  We never found a good regulation point. And so making sure that you are having the right sequence of colors. If you need to splice the wire, make sure that you are following the right sequence of colors. It's mandatory to have a smooth commission or start up of the system.
• 0:51
  Trevor: And that's like, that goes for any electronic valve, you gotta have the right wires on the right winding.
• 0:51
  Marcel: That's correct. And in this case here again I can have multiple ejectors connected. So I can each driver can have two ejectors being driven. And here we have the two different ports here for A and B in terms of connection. Make sure that when you are configuring, you are sure that you are driver A, that our driver B depending on the application.
• 0:52
  Marcel: That's correct. And in this case here again I can have multiple ejectors connected. So I can each driver can have two ejectors being driven. And here we have the two different ports here for A and B in terms of connection. Make sure that when you are configuring, you are sure that you are driver A, that our driver B depending on the application.
• 0:52
  Another important point, Trevor, is that different from our standard electronic expansion valves, ejectors, they have a different number of steps, so make sure when selecting and installing or replacing the controller or the ejector in the field, make sure that you are selecting the right model that has the right amount of steps.
• 0:52
  Otherwise, you will not be opening completely or you would be overdriving the motor inside the ejector. Yeah, totally makes sense. And the ways of controlling the Ejector. We have pretty much two main ways to control it. Okay. So the first one is with a 0 to 10 volt signal. So we can see here that I have the terminals I have indicated here.
• 0:52
  When it's a zero to 10 volt and you see a wire going from GND and S2, you can identify this as zero to 10 volt control. So with that, you can come with your meter and you can check the voltage that you have there. So it will be easier for you to troubleshoot if it's a zero to 10 volt signal. The other way that we can do is also with serial mode.
• 0:53
  When it's a zero to 10 volt and you see a wire going from GND and S2, you can identify this as zero to 10 volt control. So with that, you can come with your meter and you can check the voltage that you have there. So it will be easier for you to troubleshoot if it's a zero to 10 volt signal. The other way that we can do is also with serial mode.
• 0:53
  Serial mode provides more feedback from the main controller and also from the supervisor system because I can retrieve all the alarms coming from the driver and see it on the BMS. So it's you need to evaluate what you need. Or normally the OEM evaluates that if they want an easy troubleshooting with zero to 10 roads, but susceptible to more noise or serial mode where you can retrieve all the information.
• 0:53
  So. Two different ways for controlling the, the ejectors. Yeah, pretty straight forward. Zero to 10 or RS485 from our system. Yes. And one last thing that I want to share, I will share this document to you, Trevor. This, it is a checklist for the ejector installation. Normally we have done this for the transcritical rack, but we have one dedicated just for the ejector.
• 0:54
  So. Two different ways for controlling the, the ejectors. Yeah, pretty straight forward. Zero to 10 or RS485 from our system. Yes. And one last thing that I want to share, I will share this document to you, Trevor. This, it is a checklist for the ejector installation. Normally we have done this for the transcritical rack, but we have one dedicated just for the ejector. So. A couple of basic stuff, like what we were saying, the position of the ejector, the wires, how it's installed position of the probes and so on. So you just make sure that you have checked everything before turning on the system. And I'm pretty sure that if you check all the boxes, when you turn the system will be really plug and play and just see the system running.
• 0:54
  Okay. So it's a good point for a document that we can share and can support the technicians in the field during commissioning.
• 0:54
  Trevor: And what's great about that is that you just go through it step by step. It's like any compressor track checklist, the checklist that we do in our CO2 trading programs.
• 0:54
  You go through that when you're doing a startup, because I've been to lots of startups, you go through the checklist and check everything off. Did I check this? Did I check that? That's why it's called a checklist. And when you go through that and you said, okay, I verified this. I verified that. Then you run into way less issues than be like, Oh, I think I did it.
• 0:54
  Or maybe, maybe it's good. You know what I mean? So always, always do those checklists. Be diligent.
• 0:54
  Marcel: So
• 0:54
  with that, I mean, basic stuff, it looks like really basic, but we spend a lot of time with these in the field. So if you make sure that everything that we discussed here are properly done in the, in the, on the installation procedure it should be easier for you guys to start the system and then troubleshooting, I have added here a couple of tools, basic tools that most of the technicians they have, and could be easier for troubleshooting on ejector.
• 0:55
  with that, I mean, basic stuff, it looks like really basic, but we spend a lot of time with these in the field. So if you make sure that everything that we discussed here are properly done in the, in the, on the installation procedure it should be easier for you guys to start the system and then troubleshooting, I have added here a couple of tools, basic tools that most of the technicians they have, and could be easier for troubleshooting on ejector.
• 0:55
  So first things first, ejector position again, we have a three way position and this is just to show a picture of an installation where the customer was complaining that the ejector was not working, it was not regulating properly and so on. So if you see here we had a way around installation of the port.
• 0:55
  So basically they had the ejector installed in a. Not correct way. So again, when we specify and put on slide here, it's because we have seen this in the field. So here you can see that they are all using the suction part of the ejector connected to the gas cooler. You can see that we have the evaporator for coming out of the 70 section line coming from the evaporator to the gas cooler inlet port.
• 0:56
  So basically they had the ejector installed in a. Not correct way. So again, when we specify and put on slide here, it's because we have seen this in the field. So here you can see that they are all using the suction part of the ejector connected to the gas cooler. You can see that we have the evaporator for coming out of the 70 section line coming from the evaporator to the gas cooler inlet port.
• 0:56
  And then going to the liquid receiver. So if you install it backwards, it will not work. And you will have a lot of troubles making sure that the system is doing well. So first thing, checking the connections where the pipes are going. I mean, sometime the operator reversed it, installed in an unproper way.
• 0:56
  I mean, it happens, but we just need to make sure that it's connected correctly.
• 0:56
  Trevor: Yeah, it's just a verify to verify, and that's in the manual as well, because if you never used these before, it's like, okay, well, must go here, here, here, they're all the same port size, or they look close, similar one question, the bottom one there.
• 0:56
  So coming out, going to the receiver, it goes almost right to a 90. Do you need any difference or differential and lens? The, should that be three inches or six inch or is it okay just to come out like with a 90 right there like that? Is that okay?
• 0:56
  Marcel: Is that okay? I mean after we have internally on the ejector We will see that the piece is not so small Because we have an internal piping to make sure that we have the proper fluid and pre dynamics inside it.
• 0:57
  Marcel: Is that okay? I mean after we have internally on the ejector We will see that the piece is not so small Because we have an internal piping to make sure that we have the proper fluid and pre dynamics inside it.
• 0:57
  So when the Refrigerant goes out of the ejector from the outlet. It is already mixed in in the in the right pressure and fluid dynamics, so From that point and beyond, you can make the, the carbs that you need. So no, no problem. Perfect. For sure. As much carbs, you add more pressure drop you'll have.
• 0:57
  So this is more on the design side to avoid pressure drops.
• 0:57
  Trevor: We don't like pressure drops in any systems.
• 0:57
  Marcel: And another tool that is quite useful. Let me go back to the camera. It is the magnet tool. So. Again, this is an bipolar motor, and if you need to make sure that, for example, the motor here inside the ejector are not locked and is not broken, what you can do is using the magnets.
• 0:57
  So, the same magnets that we use for the transmission valve, you can use to drive the ejector. So, running to one side, we are closing. I don't know if you can hear the sound here. That this click means that we came to the end of the end of the, the course of the the motor and to the other side, the same.
• 0:58
  So, the same magnets that we use for the transmission valve, you can use to drive the ejector. So, running to one side, we are closing. I don't know if you can hear the sound here. That this click means that we came to the end of the end of the, the course of the the motor and to the other side, the same.
• 0:58
  So if you arrive to a place, you have your magnets and use. Keep listening the clicks for both side without moving the ejector means that the motor is stuck inside and most probably you will need to replace or at least open for cleaning it. Okay, another good point is that you can see here that we have two rings and.
• 0:58
  Every time that you make a decompression of the O rings, the O rings tend to dilatate and will not fit and will not make the seal again. So every time you open a valve like this, it's highly recommended to replace the O rings with new ones so you can maintain the seal inside the components. I don't have the magnets.
• 0:58
  What I could do for a quick and dirt tests. This is a magnet. So if you have a piece of magnet here, you can use the magnet to try to drive the motor. I mean, it's not precise. It is not. So efficient as our tool here, but if you need to do something quick and dirty Friday, 7 PM, you can try to find any magnet or even another valve to drive it.
• 0:59
  What I could do for a quick and dirt tests. This is a magnet. So if you have a piece of magnet here, you can use the magnet to try to drive the motor. I mean, it's not precise. It is not. So efficient as our tool here, but if you need to do something quick and dirty Friday, 7 PM, you can try to find any magnet or even another valve to drive it.
• 0:59
  I mean, this is like a quick and dirt solution for Friday afternoon. Then I know that it
• 0:59
  Trevor: happens. And it's the same as your other, like you said earlier, it's the same. If you work on other Crell EEVs, it's the same thing. It's opening and closing it with a magnet. Fantastic. And
• 0:59
  Marcel: another thing that you can check, it is the wiring connection.
• 0:59
  So let's say that you have a damaged wire. So our coils, all of them, they have the same resistance. So 35 Ohms that is from 33 to 38 Ohms across all the models. So. If you need to check if the coil is the problem because you are seeing like a motor error on the display, you are seeing errors that the valve is not connected, you use the magnet to drive the valve and it's working so it might be this.
• 1:00
  So let's say that you have a damaged wire. So our coils, all of them, they have the same resistance. So 35 Ohms that is from 33 to 38 Ohms across all the models. So. If you need to check if the coil is the problem because you are seeing like a motor error on the display, you are seeing errors that the valve is not connected, you use the magnet to drive the valve and it's working so it might be this.
• 1:00
  piece that might be damaged. So what you can do, you can use a meter, a simple meter to make sure that you have the right resistance. So I put here the wires, so the sequence of wires that you need to check. So in this case, for example if you measure from brown to green, you need to read 35 Ohms in that condition.
• 1:00
  If you measure brown to brown. Zero for sure and for all the other connections brown to yellow and brown to white It should be zero if you are seeing some, resistance here Something is wrong with the coil internal coil might be damaged and you should replace this driver So these are the combinations and the resistance that you need to read everything that is black means that you should not read any any Resistance here should be overloaded so zero Not, not zero.
• 1:00
  So not reading the resistance here. So it's a quite easy way to check bipolar drives here. Sequences of our wires. Again, this is something that we discussed and what happens, and if you have a different sequences, make sure, let's check here because Carel has the sequence of wires connected for pole poles of the, the, the state or so.
• 1:01
  So not reading the resistance here. So it's a quite easy way to check bipolar drives here. Sequences of our wires. Again, this is something that we discussed and what happens, and if you have a different sequences, make sure, let's check here because Carel has the sequence of wires connected for pole poles of the, the, the state or so.
• 1:01
  One in three is the first pole and two and four is the second pole. That's why we have one three. Two, four sequence of wires and not 1, 2, 3, 4. Okay. Make sure that you have the, the right sequence because if you reverse like brown and yellow, you are into different windings and it means that you have motor error.
• 1:01
  So you are not able to read the, the, the coil. The controller cannot read the co if you'll simply replace like a brown with green or yellow with white. What would we, would, would be doing is like we are sending the current in the wrong direction inside the motor, and this would make that the, instead of opening the valve, we are closing the valve or the all, all the way around.
• 1:02
  So you are not able to read the, the, the coil. The controller cannot read the co if you'll simply replace like a brown with green or yellow with white. What would we, would, would be doing is like we are sending the current in the wrong direction inside the motor, and this would make that the, instead of opening the valve, we are closing the valve or the all, all the way around.
• 1:02
  So this would generate a lot of confusion. It'll not trigger an alarm because we are breeding the currents, but it'll drive the val valve in the opposite direction. So make sure that you are properly set with that. Makes sense. And the one just last component I want to show is we have here the EVD AutoCAP.
• 1:02
  So AutoCAP is a capacitor bank that we can use to close the ejector in case of emergency. So we are also covered in this point if it's needed.
• 1:02
  Trevor: Yeah, no different than the other electronic valves.
• 1:02
  Marcel: And let's see. Yeah. And these are the, the, the points I would highlight Trevor from very high level perspective.
• 1:02
  I know I, I know I love it.
• 1:02
  Trevor: I know it was way over on time, but this is awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Cause this is, this is the thing. Like you, you may start, you may see them already. You may start seeing them, but it's diving into this to really get an understanding. It's just another electronic valve in the system.
• 1:02
  It's an added complexity because it is another component, but when you understand how it works. It makes it you know, where that refrigerant goes about heat transfer, where we move in that heat to. And just like these ejectors, you're going to see more and more of them understand how they work. Just like Marcel, you did a fantastic job explaining it.
• 1:03
  It's an added complexity because it is another component, but when you understand how it works. It makes it you know, where that refrigerant goes about heat transfer, where we move in that heat to. And just like these ejectors, you're going to see more and more of them understand how they work. Just like Marcel, you did a fantastic job explaining it.
• 1:03
  And I really appreciate that. We've got a couple of questions here. What is the lifespan of an ejector? I would, before you answer Marcel, I'm going to say it's. Probably the same as any electronic valve, you know what I mean? That's, but do you, do you have an idea? How long have they been running?
• 1:03
  At least 10 years, like eight, eight to 10 years, they've been running. I think it's 2016. They came out
• 1:03
  Marcel: or how long? Basically what we do in terms of our manufacturing production is that all the components that we produce, many on the valve side, we have tested it into accelerated. Product life testing. So basically what we do, we have a controller opening and closing the ejectors multiple times.
• 1:03
  And basically we have ensured that during our production and also during the engineering phase, the drives must be able to open and drive the valves. I think it's like 10 million or 1 billion of steps. So the amount of steps that we can invert into at least 10 years of operation. So all the components are.
• 1:04
  And basically we have ensured that during our production and also during the engineering phase, the drives must be able to open and drive the valves. I think it's like 10 million or 1 billion of steps. So the amount of steps that we can invert into at least 10 years of operation. So all the components are.
• 1:04
  Rated at least for 10 years of operation. It doesn't mean that at at after the 10th year it'll fail. It is just the testing quality that we do in our production batches by batches, and we make sure that the valves will be able to drive at least that amount of steps.
• 1:04
  Trevor: Yeah,
• 1:04
  Marcel: no, and this is an estimation.
• 1:04
  I mean, we cannot say yes. It'll be that amount. If the valve stays in the same position for a long period, it would be even more.
• 1:04
  Trevor: Exactly. And how long is it? How well is it maintained the system? How, you know, maintenance and service and install. And this goes with any refrigeration system. It's going to last a lot longer if it was installed correctly, if it's maintained correctly and serviced correctly.
• 1:04
  And they'll last longer. That's just the way it is. Another question on the horizontal mounting position. Should the suction port be positioned between 9 and 12 o'clock or 12 to 3 o'clock only? So in this position you mean? Yeah. So should it be like, does it matter if the, the, the high pressure is coming into the top or into the bottom when it's horizontal mounting?
• 1:05
  And they'll last longer. That's just the way it is. Another question on the horizontal mounting position. Should the suction port be positioned between 9 and 12 o'clock or 12 to 3 o'clock only? So in this position you mean? Yeah. So should it be like, does it matter if the, the, the high pressure is coming into the top or into the bottom when it's horizontal mounting?
• 1:05
  Marcel: From an installation perspective, the the optimal ways to install it like this, but if you need to install with the suction port from the top, it will be easier to install. Great question, Jason.
• 1:05
  Trevor: Awesome. So, Marcel, how can people find out more about you, more about these ejectors, if they want to learn more?
• 1:05
  Sure.
• 1:05
  Marcel: We have nutgraph. corel. com. We have a lot of content related to natural refrigeration solutions. This is something that we can share. I'm always available here in the US. I'm covering the whole America's area. I have colleagues covering all the regions. I can share my email so you guys can email me if you have any questions related to applications on refrigeration.
• 1:05
  We are always available to have a good discussion about technical topics.
• 1:06
  We are always available to have a good discussion about technical topics.
• 1:06
  Trevor: Yeah, I love it. And I love having conversation with you, Marcel, because you're real technical. You understand it. And this is, this is really important. So if you're listening on the podcast, you might have to listen to it again. Okay.
• 1:06
  Go to the YouTube channel and look at the slides as the slides Marcel went through, but we talk about this in our CO2 programs all the time, just to really get a good understanding, get to see this more and more. It's not only being here as well. Listening and watching is great, but you got to go out there and put your hands on out there, you know, get that hands on work.
• 1:06
  And that's why we do tons of CO2 training programs where you've got to go out and do that hands on work. That's where you start to learn. You learn the theory here, but you got to go out in the field. That's why I highly recommend anyone that takes our CO2 courses or supermarket programs, you learn here to theory, but you actually go out and take the action out there.
• 1:06
  So if you start seeing those ejectors out there, try to learn, investigate, don't. Don't jump away and be like, Oh, I don't want to learn about it. Go and say, what does it do? Where's the pipe to, how's it program? How's the control? Who, how was it installed? That is so, so important at hands on portion. Marcel, thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
• 1:07
  So if you start seeing those ejectors out there, try to learn, investigate, don't. Don't jump away and be like, Oh, I don't want to learn about it. Go and say, what does it do? Where's the pipe to, how's it program? How's the control? Who, how was it installed? That is so, so important at hands on portion. Marcel, thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
• 1:07
  If you like this podcast, please share it, comment on it. My name is Trevor Matthews. Let's get a conversation going. Thank you so much, Marcel. Thank you Trevor.
• 1:08
  If you like this podcast, please share it, comment on it. My name is Trevor Matthews. Let's get a conversation going. Thank you so much, Marcel. Thank you Trevor.