Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Black Widow' murders husband, then targets, kills her 'lookalike' to assume her identity! On the run now!

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'Black Widow' murders husband, then targets, kills her 'lookalike' to assume her identity! On the run now! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: one two. How in the hay is a nearly sixty
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: year old woman accused of murdering her husband and her doppleganger,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: her bottle blonde look alike? How in the world is
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this happening? Right now? A multi state man hunt goes
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  Speaker 1: on for a woman accused of murdering her husband and
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  Speaker 1: a complete female stranger as just in As we go
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  Speaker 1: to air right now, brand new close circuit TV foot
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: is showing the alleged killer chatting up victim number two,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: laying on the charm. I Meancy Grace, this is Crime
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  Speaker 1: Stories and this is what we know. Lois spotted perched
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  Speaker 1: up on a bar stool, reeling in her second murder
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  Speaker 1: victim according to police, with me an all star lineup.
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  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville
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  Speaker 1: State University, John Limley, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Mickey Sherman,
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  Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney and multiple jurisdictions and author of How
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  Speaker 1: Can You Defend Those People? Let That's so Kim and
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  Speaker 1: veteran New York psychologist joining me from Manhattan. Karen stark
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  Speaker 1: straight out to you, John Limley. Let's start at the beginning. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I know this woman is on the run. I believe
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: she's whoa check it out. That's a million dollar smile
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  Speaker 1: she's got going on in that bar, up on the
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  Speaker 1: bar stool. Uh. She looks like a cover girl. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. She's got the bleached blond hair down
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  Speaker 1: past her shoulders, perfect makeup. I think that's my shade
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  Speaker 1: of lipstick. This chicks weary, and you got a beautiful smile,
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  Speaker 1: and her eyes are laser focused on the woman sitting
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  Speaker 1: next to her at the bar, who is now dead,
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  Speaker 1: Pamela Hutchinson. Okay, start at the beginning. Let's start with
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: what happened to the husband. Yes, victim number one, Nancy
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  Speaker 1: Lois's husband, David Reese. He grew up in Rochester, Minnesota.
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  Speaker 1: He served in the U. S. Navy, and after that
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  Speaker 1: he came back to his hometown. He opened a bait shop,
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  Speaker 1: a store for fishing supplies. Now this business must have
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  Speaker 1: inspired him to go from being a retailer to being
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  Speaker 1: a supplier, because he sold that bait shop and began
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: a commercial worm farm. The new venture, I think had
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a great name, the prairie wax worm fam. Okay, wait
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  Speaker 1: a minute, back it up, just a moment, just a moment.
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  Speaker 1: I took one sip of my tea and the next
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  Speaker 1: thing I heard was prairie wax worm farm. Prairie wax
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  Speaker 1: worm farm. Okay, Mickey, sure, I mean I don't. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: you've ever had that pop up in a case, have you,
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  Speaker 1: prairie wax worm farm. I think the young lady who
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: was the suspect here is probably an outgrowth of the
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  Speaker 1: malfunction of one of the worms, because she is no
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  Speaker 1: good looking. Okay, Mickey, I'll let you. I'll let you
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  Speaker 1: hold that defense for just one moment, so limbly. What
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  Speaker 1: did you say about a worm farm? Yes, I thought
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  Speaker 1: you might wonder what in the world was a wax
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  Speaker 1: worm farm. Well, I did a little research. I wan't
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  Speaker 1: bore you with all the ins and outs of the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not bored at all. I heard the two words
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  Speaker 1: of worm farm. I'm all ears. Okay. Because my grandfather,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: on my dad's side, of course, everybody had a farm,
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  Speaker 1: work work the the farm. He had a an area
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  Speaker 1: where he would put old food and corn husking and
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  Speaker 1: all that to grow worms. So I'm just extrapolating and guessing.
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  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Yeah, I did a little risk search discovered
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  Speaker 1: that waxworms are the caterpillar form, although wax moth I
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  Speaker 1: have to admit I fell down the rabbit hole investigating
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  Speaker 1: the life and times of the wax You're taking us
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  Speaker 1: all with you. Please stop. What's a worm farm? I'll
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  Speaker 1: spare you all that anyway, David's new worm farm was.
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  Speaker 1: You keep saying I'll spare you, I'll spare you. Then
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: you keep talking. Just tell me what's the worm farm?
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  Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, I'm trying to get to a double
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  Speaker 1: office side. Now you know what my family has to
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  Speaker 1: put up with this new farm outside the tiny town
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  Speaker 1: of Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, about eighty five miles south of
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  Speaker 1: the Twin Cities. Well, David had a couple of partners
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  Speaker 1: in this business, and one of them became really concerned
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  Speaker 1: after not seeing David for a whole two weeks, hadn't
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  Speaker 1: heard from him either. Um. He finally just decides enough
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  Speaker 1: he calls the Dodge County authorities to check in on
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  Speaker 1: him to conduct a welfare or check. Deputies went to
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  Speaker 1: the farm on Highway to eighteen just outside Blooming Prairie,
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  Speaker 1: and they found David, but not in the condition that
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  Speaker 1: any friends or family might have hoped for. He was
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  Speaker 1: dead and had been for some time. He had been
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  Speaker 1: shot at some point several times. Okay, that gives a
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  Speaker 1: whole new meaning to worm farm. Okay, guys, we have
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  Speaker 1: been joking around about this guy and the wax worm
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  Speaker 1: farm he and his partner had developed. Just f y.
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  Speaker 1: I that's a pretty big enterprise and a lot of
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  Speaker 1: areas of our country for you city slickers that don't
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  Speaker 1: know about a worm farm. Long story short, forget about that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm looking at his photo right now. David Reese found
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  Speaker 1: shot dead after one of his business partners called the
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  Speaker 1: police to say he hadn't shown up for work for
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  Speaker 1: two weeks. Well, you know there's such a thing, Mickey Sherman,
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  Speaker 1: as I was just discussing this, well, actually fighting with
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Dan Abrams on our A and E program, Grace versus
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Abrams about alibi by routine, Mick, and you've tried so
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: many cases, you know what that is. It's when, for instance,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: if Jackie Howard or Alan do you didn't start calling
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: me and texting me at about five thirty in the morning,
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  Speaker 1: I would know something was way off, and I'd call
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  Speaker 1: nine one one, okay, because we're all putting the our
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: serious radio program together first thing every day. If she
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: didn't walk through the door at the prescribed time, I
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  Speaker 1: would start worrying. I would know something was very, very wrong, Mickey,
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  Speaker 1: alibi routine by routine. It's when a defense uses the
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  Speaker 1: normal routine. I get up at six, I do this,
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  Speaker 1: I have my tea, I get in my car. I
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  Speaker 1: can eat thirty minutes. I clock in it this time.
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  Speaker 1: You have a routine. Okay, that's your alibi. Right here,
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  Speaker 1: the co worker knew something was horribly wrong because his
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  Speaker 1: partner did not show up to right, Mick, Well, it
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  Speaker 1: gets you up to bad, there's no question about it.
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  Speaker 1: But it doesn't drive you home. That's that's that's the problem.
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  Speaker 1: It alerts the police or the other investigators that maybe
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  Speaker 1: there's sell some problems here because of the between departure,
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  Speaker 1: but it doesn't steal the case. I mean, maybe he
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: just got tired of working with corn. Yeah you know what, Mickey,
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  Speaker 1: You're right. I like the way you put that. You said, Now,
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  Speaker 1: what did you say, you knocking? It's you knock something,
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  Speaker 1: But it's not a home run. What did you say?
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  Speaker 1: I said, it gets you up to bad, but it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't bring it home. Okay. I'm totally writing that down
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  Speaker 1: and stealing it from now on. It's mine. You never
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  Speaker 1: said it. Now you say it gets you up to
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  Speaker 1: bath but it doesn't get you home. That's a good
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  Speaker 1: but Mickey Sherman, I can see that on a T
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  Speaker 1: shirt right now. Dan just welcome. Oh okay, So we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about David Reese and he has found shot dead. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, as usual, you first look at the possibility
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  Speaker 1: of suicide, okay, or accident so as to impugne men's
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  Speaker 1: rael on No. One. Joseph Scott Morgan with me, forensics
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  Speaker 1: expert and Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott,
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  Speaker 1: how can you look at gunshot wounds and determine if
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: it's suicide, accident or homicide? In a nutshell? Don't go
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: deaf calm for on me. I'll try to. I'll try
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  Speaker 1: to restrain myself. Nancy uh in uh in cases where
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: we're trying to determine if it is in fact a
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  Speaker 1: suicide versus homicide, uh an example, and a suicide gunshot
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  Speaker 1: wound would be something that we would find consistent, uh, say,
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  Speaker 1: for instance, placed to the side of the head tightly pressed,
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  Speaker 1: as opposed to a homicide, which is many times fired
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  Speaker 1: at some disc sants. Uh. You rarely get press contact
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  Speaker 1: with homicide, so we would we would want to know
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  Speaker 1: was the individual shot in the back of the head,
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  Speaker 1: which might be consistent with a homicide as opposed to
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  Speaker 1: being shot inside. Well, either that or he's a contortionist.
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  Speaker 1: Go ahead, shot in the back of it. You're absolutely right,
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  Speaker 1: But there have been cases where that has taken place.
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  Speaker 1: So we have to consider all possibilities. And our working
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  Speaker 1: model is that we assume all deaths or homicide until
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  Speaker 1: we can prove otherwise. And in this case, I hope
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  Speaker 1: that the police will like, you're positive. You gotta be positive.
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  Speaker 1: You've got to find every beam of little sunshine in
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  Speaker 1: the dark clouds. Well. Another tip off, of course, is
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  Speaker 1: when there are multiple gun shots, you know you're you're
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  Speaker 1: shot in the chest, you're shot in the arm, you're
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  Speaker 1: shot in the head. That's not a suicide. All right. Now,
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  Speaker 1: we don't know all the details surrounding the husband, David
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  Speaker 1: Reese's shooting death, but we know this we know. The
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  Speaker 1: cops immediately hone in on her. John Limley Crime stories
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  Speaker 1: of best to get a reporter what happens? Then they
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  Speaker 1: find the husband Dad, And the next turn in the
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  Speaker 1: case was that someone else was missing from the Reefs household,
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  Speaker 1: and that was his wife. Lois is missing, and so
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  Speaker 1: is a good bit of David's money. Uh figures ranged
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  Speaker 1: between eleven thousand, maybe over twenty thousand dollars. It's not
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  Speaker 1: long before Lois is charged with theft in connection with
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  Speaker 1: several suspicious withdrawals from David's bank account. Well, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 1: is that one of them in eleven thousand dollar check
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  Speaker 1: forged on his business account? I mean the bank should
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  Speaker 1: have a surveillance of that, at least of that. She
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  Speaker 1: had transferred money from David's business account into his personal
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  Speaker 1: account and then forged her her husband's handwriting on at
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  Speaker 1: least three checks, all made out to herself. Well, that's
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  Speaker 1: leaving a trail a mile wide. And what about where
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  Speaker 1: does okay his car is missing, money is getting siphoned
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  Speaker 1: out of his account, there's a Ford check on his
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  Speaker 1: business account, and then does she pop up at an
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  Speaker 1: Iowa casino? John Limley, it's not long before a tip
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  Speaker 1: comes in, one that leads them to the Diamond Joe
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  Speaker 1: Casino just off Interstate thirty five, just across the border
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  Speaker 1: in Northwood, Iowa. Now, for close friends and family of
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  Speaker 1: the Reese's, this actually would make perfect sense if not
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  Speaker 1: for the situation. Lois had a problem, a major gambling addiction.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: She loved gambling. Of course. The thing that didn't make
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  Speaker 1: sense is why Lois would be playing the slots at
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the same time her husband is missing and had been
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  Speaker 1: found murdered. It turns out Lois had been at that casino,
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  Speaker 1: but unfortunately for authorities, by the time they get there,
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  Speaker 1: she's long gone. Investigators were back to square one in
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  Speaker 1: search for John. John only you got me drinking from
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the fire hydrant too much, too fast. I can't take
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  Speaker 1: it all in, Karen, start with me. We're now New
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: York psychologist. Karen. She's got one husband dead at the
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  Speaker 1: worm farm, alright, longtime husband, and now she's gambling at
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  Speaker 1: the casino. Karen, what is that state of mind? You
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  Speaker 1: leave leave your husband's shot multiple times dead on the
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  Speaker 1: worm farm back home, and she's in Iowa running through
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  Speaker 1: all that money. It's she might as well take out
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  Speaker 1: a billboard on Third Avenue that says, look at me,
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  Speaker 1: I kill my husband. Here I am at the slot
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  Speaker 1: machines in Iowa. Come and get me well. And what
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  Speaker 1: it also says is, look at me, I killed my
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  Speaker 1: husband and I don't care. I'm having a good old
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  Speaker 1: time using the slab machines because I don't have a conscience.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what's happening with this woman. That's so typical
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  Speaker 1: of the sociopath. They have no feelings, so they could
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  Speaker 1: commit a crime and then go off, take the money
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  Speaker 1: and have a wonderful time playing slot. You know it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: so odd, Mickey Shrman, you and I've seen it all,
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  Speaker 1: or so let me knock on wood on that one,
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  Speaker 1: because just every time I say we've seen it all,
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  Speaker 1: then something tops it. But Mickey, this frame of mind,
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  Speaker 1: if you and I were had committed a crime, had
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: committed a murder, we would be ducking and diving. We
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: would be using only cash, would go all Jodiarius and
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  Speaker 1: get our gas and cans and the trunk so we
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have a receipt anywhere. We would be hiding out
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: paying cash at a hotel six, staying totally under the
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: radar until we hit mehico, right, but maybe we've I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: don't know you, okay, So okay, that's right, the high
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: level the slot. So, Mickey, this woman is is brazen. Really,
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  Speaker 1: that's what she is. Brazen. That's generally the nature of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: someone who kills other people. So it's I mean, the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: psychologists about the field day with her. But to the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: fact that she's done this dastardly deed and then goes
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to a casino, I don't think that's out of the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: realm of the normality for somebody who has no Yah.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: That's you've actually um hit on something. And I don't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: really know how to verbalize it, but you're right, people
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  Speaker 1: that would kill so brazenly are not thinking the way
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you and I think, Mick. I mean, I'm not saying
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: she's insane because she's leading a nationwide manhunt right now.
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  Speaker 1: She's eluding everybody, so she's no idiot. She's crazy like
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a fox. But that mentality is something that I can't understand.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: So this is what we know. A real life female
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: human black widow is suspecting the death of her husband,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: shot multiple times, She apparently steals as are siphons, all
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: his money and is spotted at the Iowa slots. So
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: John Limley is my understanding. She goes on basically a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: tour the Gulf States explained. Yeah, she uh starts heading
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: south and from reports she visits other casinos along the way.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: She has a long trip ahead of her. We don't
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: know if she had in her mind her destination or
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: if she just hit the road the interstate and started
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: heading south. But um, eventually she ends up in Florida,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: in Fort Myers. Fort Myers. The only thing that I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: would have, uh, I would imagine Orlando, because all roads
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: in crime seem to lead to Orlando. I think it's
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: because of the giant influx of tourists and people. Awesome weather,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it's beautiful there. But something about Florida in general tracks
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: people from all over the country. And she Lois and Reese,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: we know for a fact, ends up in Florida, and
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: specifically at a bar. And there's no way you can
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: tell me that she did not hone in on this
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: woman because she the killer, the alleged killer believes this
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: woman Hutchinson was her doppelganger, her look alike. And when
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: you put them jack, you look at this, look at
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: their faces side by side. Now the alleged killer Reese Lois,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and Reese has her hair long and pull back in
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a bun in that photo, and Hutchinson has her shortened bouncy.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: But you pull the hair back and change the hair color,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: that's totally a look alike. So she goes from casino
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to casino and pops up there in Fort Myers, Florida,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: on a bar stool at the Smoking Oyster Brewery in
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Fort Myers Beach. This is still for days before Hutchinson
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: is found dead. What describe what you see on the video,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: John Linley, She's caught on close circuit TV. True, it's
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: a short, relatively short clip, and you can see Lois.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: She is facing that surveillance camera. She pulls her glasses
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: back on her head. Uh. She really seems to be,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, turning on the charm. She is in
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: her element, seems to be holding court. And you can
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: see the back of the head of this doppelganger, this
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: supposed twin of sorts, Pam Hudgins Pam Hutchinson, right, you
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: can see the back of her head. She's wearing a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: red and white cap. They seem to be having a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: really good time. They're laughing and drinking. And I see
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: a cell phone sitting out beside her, but I think
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: it's belonging to a man who's sitting on her other side,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and he and the alleged black widow are sitting back
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: to back there at two bar stools, and each one
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: is turned away from the other like two bookends. Now
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Lois and Reese is wearing a pair of very pale khaki's,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: a pale bluish purple tank top, short sleeve, you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: pull over. She's got her hair super platinum blonde. It
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: looks like it's just been blown out. It's down below
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: her shoulders. She has on white sunglasses like she's wearing
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: them like a headband with her hair back, and during
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: the conversation pulls them off. She's drinking out of a
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: tall red glass. Her intended victim, Pamela Hutchinson, it's also
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: drinking something and they're engaged in conversation throughout the whole video,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And when you look at it, you see Lois and Rice.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen one of those um wildlife video
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: movies or documentaries just Scott Morgan where you see all
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the antelope drinking calmly, or the gazelles at the pool
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of water on the Serenghetti and in the distance you
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: don't really see it much. But then when you see
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: do see it, you see the predator. Let's just say,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: a lion sneak up and its eyes are razor locked
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: on one of the gazelle. It never takes its size off.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: It's just gotta look. It's almost as if if you
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: dropped a brick on its head, it would not look
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: away from its target. That's the way she's looking at
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Pam Hutchinson. She never takes her eyes off, never does.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And the thing about a lot of those gazelles is
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that they'll alert. This woman never alerted to it. She
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: never saw it coming. And that's what makes this particularly scary. Nancy,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: this lady that is perpetrating this is very charming, very disarming.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And who would you know, who would think that there's
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: there's pure evil, you know, uh in what this woman
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: was about to do. She's engaging this woman. They're just
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: having a nice conversation. Looks like they're just yucking it
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: up and they're laughing. They're having a good old But
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: not for long, Joe Scott, Not not for long at all.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: This ends in tragedy because pam Hutchinson is found dead
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: in her Florida condo. Her purse was found in disarray,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: all cash, credit cards, and most important I D removed
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the lead County under share of Carmine Marcino adds. Investigation
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: reveals Miss Hutchinson was targeted due to similarities and their
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: appearances and he's right. Police now fear that after murdering her,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: her husband Lois and Reese black widow goes on the run.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I D s a doubled ganger in smoking Oyster Brewery
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: killed her, murders her so she could impersonate her and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: assume her identity. Take a listen to this. In April,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Lee County Sheriff's Office responded to a medical assistance call
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: at six four five old San Carlos Boulevard and Fort
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Myers Beach. Upon arrival, deputies encountered the deceased fifty nine
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: year old female, later identified as Pamela Hutchinson, who was
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: found to have suffered fatal gunshot wounds. The medical examiner
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: determined that Miss Hutchinson was the victim of a homicide.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: The Lee County Sheriff's Office Major Crimes Unit responded and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: assume the investigation. Miss Hutchinson's purse was found to be
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: in disarray and all cash, credit cards, and identify occasion
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: appeared to be removed. Additionally, the decedent's car keys vehicle,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: a white Accurate t L with a Florida tag of
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Y three seven t A, were determined to be missing.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Further investigation revealed that Miss Hutchinson was targeted by the
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: suspect due to the similarities in their appearance. Investigation concluded
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that Reese is currently a person of interest and a
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: recent homicide that took place in Dodge County, Minnesota. Our
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Major Crimes Unit has worked around the clock and has
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: obtained in the rest warrant for Reese, a white female
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: with a date of birth of February two. Our detectives
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: have reviewed hundreds of hours of video and traveled throughout
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the state and collected hundreds of items for forensic examination,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and have coordinated efforts with our state and federal agencies.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: It has been determined that Reece has fled southwest Florida
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and has traveled through the Gulf State and into Corpus Christie,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Texas area, and current whereabouts are unknown. Reese's wanted for murder,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: grand theft of motor vehicle and grand theft, and criminal
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: use of personal identification. Reese's mode of operation is to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: be friend women who resemble her and steal their identity.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: US Marshalls are actively involved in a national search for
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: this dangerous fugitive. Reese is considered armed and dangerous and
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: should not be approached if located. The Lee County Sheriff's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Office asking both the local and national media as well
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: as the public to share Reese's information and the contact
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Southwest Florida Crime Stoppers at seven eight zero tips I
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: have any information on Reese's whereabouts. You were listening to
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the Lee County, Florida under Sheriff laying out what they
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: believe happened. So, John, what can you tell me about
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the second victim? She looks so perky and bubbly and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: all of her photos I'm talking about Pam Hutchinson. Right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: We may think that they look a lot alike from photos,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: but personality wise, they really couldn't be more different. As
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: you know, you can learn a lot about a person
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: from their Facebook page, and that's definitely the case with
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Pam Hutchinson. She was from Bradenton, Florida. As you scroll
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: down her Facebook page, you see she's pretty vibrant, she's funny. Uh.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Some great posts on her Facebook page. She loves the beach, dancing,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: pretty dresses. Friends and family from their comments, obviously adore her.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: After allegedly killing her doppelganger, her twin, Pam Hudginson, we
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: believe Lois and Reese took off in the woman's white
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: accurate t L Florida license plate. Why yellow three seven
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: tea toy a alpha A alpha? Why three seventy a
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: A abandoning her own two thousand four white I lack
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: escalade at a Florida park. Now from there, she's in
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the woman's car, which is an white Accura t L
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Florida license plate. Why three seventy A A? From there?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Where does she go? John Limley. The last word we
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: have from authorities is when they report that she has
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: been spotted in Corpus Christie, Texas, some dred miles away.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And as you know, Nancy, Corpus Christidy, Texas not that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: far from the Mexican border. This is what cops are saying. Quote,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: she could be anywhere at this time. Our suspect loves
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to gamble, she loves casinos. She could be anywhere. She
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: is armed, She is dangerous. She looks like anybody's mother.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: She smiles, but she's calculated, and she is a killer
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: on the loose. Whoa Okay, Karen Stark helped me reconcile
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: this gregarious, charm arming bottle blonde with a beautiful white smile,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: sitting out of a bar stool, chatting up everybody around her,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: with a laser lot on her next murder victim. She's,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you know, just a very short way from the Mexican border,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: last spot of Corpus Christie, Texas. What's so frightening about
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: encountering a person like this is that she can come
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: across as your very best friend, the most charming, grecarious
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you want to know her. She's got her sunglasses on
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and off and making eye contact with you, and the
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: last thing that anyone would ever suspect is the whole
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: time she's plotting to kill you. That's what's so deceiving
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: about someone who's a sociopath is capable of murder is
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: that they can really come off as quite charming and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you would never believe that this is about to happen.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Who would ever think on meeting this new purse And
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: isn't she great? Oh and by the way, I bet
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: would be very careful because she's going to assume my
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: identity and kill me. Well, you know another thing, Mickey Sherman,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I know you're probably going to argue it's all quote
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, which is which it is, f y I.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Circumstantial evidence under the law is to be considered on
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: equal footing with direct evidence, such as a confession, DNA
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: or fingerprint. But Mickey Sherman, I know you're gonna argue, Well,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: we don't know she killed her look alike, her twin,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Pam Hutchinson. But I'm looking at surveillance video of her
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the black widow Lewis and Reese right now, and she
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: is spotted at Hutchinson's condo just before her dead bodies found.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So she's on video with her at the bar stool
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: at Smoking Oyster Brewery and Fort Myers. She's also spotted
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: at Pam's condo and Pam ends up dead. What about that, Mick, Well,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: it is circumstantial evidence in it, and I'll do the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: first to concede that circumstantial evidence is often better, better
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: than my witness or confessions or what else. And most
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: people feeled, however, that if it's circumstantial, it's not worth anything.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And those of us who try cases know that that's
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: not the case. The bottom line is, they still need
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: something to drive this home render. She may have picked
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: up to someone at the Doyster Bar, but they still
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: need something to build the bridge between being spotted. Oh oh,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I've got something. I got something for you, Mickey, Oh,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you're gonna hate this. The gun, the weapon used to
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: kill the husband, is the same weapon used to kill
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Pam Hutchinson. They both died with the same gun. Everybody
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: you know how that works. A gun when it is made,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: has an individual marking inside the barrel where the metal dries.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It's like a fingerprint. As a bullet hurdles down the barrel,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: it is struck with high velocity against the inside of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the barrel, leaving striations or markings on the bullet that
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: only one gun in the world can leave. So when
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you can match up those bullets taken out of the
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: victim's body under microscope, you can see it's very plain.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: When you look at it. Joe Scott, it sounds like
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: high science. But Joseph Scott Morgan, it's very plain to
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: see under a microscope. Yeah, Nancy, it's a ballistic fingerprint. Uh,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: and it is unique to that particular weapon. Being that
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: this uh is apparently at this point in time, the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: same weapon that she used relative to her husband, we
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: can take those rounds and tie those back. Let's also
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: keep in mind that since she's crossed state lines at
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: this point in time, the FBI, the U S. Marshals,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: they're gonna bring their full force, So their laboratories are
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: going to be involved in this in collecting this information
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: and comparing, uh, comparing these rounds as it were. Uh.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: This isn't just at a state level now, and so
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: they're gonna bring their full force of their forensic abilities
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to this case and matching this up. And this is
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: pattern evidence, Nancy stunt stuff that that comes along as
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: a result of her continued behavior. I think that one
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: other thing we need to consider is, uh, is is
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: she going to do this again? And that's the frightening
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: part of this. But if she's using the same weapon,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: we will have connectivity all the way through this from
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Minnesota to Florida and then wherever she winds up. Hopefully
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: no one else will get hurt. Right now, a nationwide
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: search underway for a Minnesota woman accused of murdering her
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: husband and now her look alike, Lois Reese of Blooming Prairie, Minnesota,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: believed to have murdered her husband, David Reese. Authorities now
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: believe Reese flees Minnesota and travels to Florida, where we
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: believe she murders her look like Pamela Hutchinson after video
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: emerges of re smiling and chatting up Hutchinson at the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Smoking Oyster Brewery Fort Myers before allegedly going home to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: her condo with her and murdering her. We believe it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was all in an attempt to assume her Hutchinson's identity.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: If you have information, call nine one one or eight
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: hundred seven eight zero eight four seven seven repeat eight
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: hundred seven eight zero tips, T I P S. Eight
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: hundred seven eight zero eight four seven seven Nancy As.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: The U. S. Marshall Service has updated the Riese case
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: to a major case. It is now offering a reward
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: of up to five thousand dollars for information leading to
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: her arrest, and the Florida Crimes Stoppers is also offering
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a reward of up to a thousand dollars, So that's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a six thousand dollar reward if you can help them
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: catch this woman. Why us and race? You can run,
• 32:12
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• 32:16
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• 32:22
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• 32:25
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• 32:29
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• 32:32
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• 32:36
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• 32:39
  Speaker 1: an advertisements www dot Injury help dot com is responsible
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: for the advertisement principle of this. Las Vegas, Nevada. A
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: millionaire Atlanta lawyer in a prominent law firm on trial
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: for the murder of his wife. Right now. We are
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: heading into jury deliberations as we speak straight out to
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Art Harris, Crime Stories investig At a reporter, Emmy Award
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: winning journalist Art Harris. Take it from the beginning, How
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: did Tex Mciver's wife end up dead? They're in the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: suv heading home from his country farm and they pull
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: off downtown. Danny Joe Carter, his wife's best friend, is driving.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: The wife is in the front seat in front of
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Tex who's in the back seat. Text just wakes up
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: when they get off the expressway. It's been very crowded,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: says this is not a good area. Give me my gun,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: and his wife hands him his thirty eight, which he
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: keeps in the glove compartment. Texts, uh uh, he's holding it,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: and suddenly he falls back asleep. According to what he's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: told people. Uh, Danny Joe. At some point they're driving
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: through Atlanta. Wait, let me understand this. Let me understand this,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Mickey Sherman. He wakes up in the back seat and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: they're in this suv. A friend of the family's driving.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: The wife is in the front bucket seat, and he goes, WHOA,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: why we're in a bad area of town. Pss is
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: where I lived the whole time I was a prosecutor.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I never thought it was a bad area anyway. So
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: he goes, w aboad area town, give me my gun.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: So they take out, I believe, with thirty eight wrapped
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: in a Kroger grocery store plastic bag. They hand it
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: to him, and he's so afraid, Mickey Sherman, you're the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: defense attorney that he falls back to sleep. You never
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: know what the jury is gonna buy. It's as simple
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: as that. The jury, very often, and you'll know you'll
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: agree with this, very often, takes the evidence in and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: then decides that the prosecutors little below and the defense
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: attorney doesn't know what he what he's talking about, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: we're going to solve the crime. And he did this
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and he did that, and that that's that could be
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the situation here. Yeah, you know what, You're right. I
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: think juries just have a deep distrust of lawyers in general,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: and they figure it out on their own. So Aret Harris, So,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: he says, he falls back to sleep with the on
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: in his hand. What happens then, Nancy? He then uh
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: is awakened. Um as they're driving past Piedmont Park to stoplight,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: UH and the gun goes off. Um. He says it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: in voluntary. He says, I just discharge the gun. Is
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: everybody okay? And his wife is not? Obviously. He reaches
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: around to hold her and then starts telling Danny Joe
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the driver to head to Emory Hospital emergency room, which
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: is about eight minutes away, and the prosecutor made a
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: big deal of other hospitals were closer. He knew Emory. Anyway,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: they're there, uh, and that is where the wife is
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: unloaded into a wheelchair, raised in UH. And one doctor
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: hears her say, uh, so did you shoot yourself? She
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: says no, I didn't, my husband did, but it was
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: an accident. And that that is pretty uh hangs in
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the air, which you can't refuse. That's pretty over whelming
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: for the defense. And normally I'm siding with the state,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: but for her to have said it was an accident.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, what does she know? She was
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: sitting up front. She doesn't know what's going on in
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the back seat. And later on they asked the victim
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: do you want to see your husband? And she says no,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: as she's dying. So how do you know what kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of influence do you put on that? Nancy? It's really tough. Um,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: you know, getting back to the murdering charge. How do
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you all of a sudden wake up as your wife
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: is taking an exit, as she's told the driver get
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: off your traffic spant, you wake up um asked for
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the gun and then it goes off. How do you
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: premeditate that? I think that is that the whole they
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: have got to fill. Wait wait wait wait wait wait
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: wait wait Art, hold on, you may be this Emmy
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Award winning journalist, but hold on. You have covered enough
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: murder cases to know that intent can be formed in
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, in the
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: time it takes for you to raise a gun and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger. He may have decided right then and there,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: here's my chance. Bam, all right. You don't need a
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: long drawn out plan from murder, such as poisoning or
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: lying in weight or hiring a hit man. Every bar
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: fight that ends in a shooting death would wouldn't count
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: anymore under your theory. If you can make that case
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: of a straight face, you would get a murder conviction here.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that. But making the case right
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: now about the meaning of intent. But but I do
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: know this. I know that he was set up for
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: inheriting a four million dollar windfall from her estate to
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: pay off all of his massive debts. I know that
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: seemed about within one month. Vincent Hill with me. He's
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: been in court all day every day he had a
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: yard sale. Uh, that's one way to put it, at
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: a fancy boutique where he's sold about three hundred thousand
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: dollars worth of her designer furs, boots, bags, jewelry within
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after her death to raise money
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: for himself. Vincent, that's not a good look. You're absolutely right,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, it's not a good look. And when I
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: watched the jury's face, especially the female jurors, when this
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: was presented by the prosecution, you know, they all had
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the I can't believe he did that look on their face.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: What kind of man sells his dead wife stuff so
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: fast after she's dead and you were the one that
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: killed her, so you know, it was an aha moment
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: right there for the prosecution when that came out. Well,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: another issue is going to be his changing statements. Again,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that does not mean he did it, but Art Harris
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: his stories changed. He put out one spokesperson to say
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: one thing, then retracted it, changed the story, called people
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: left messages for them to lie to police. It's not
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: good Art Harris had and he changed his story. This
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: is a well known lawyer, he should know better. The
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: wind of the one thing that he did when they
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: got to the hospital. He tried to tell Danny, just
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: tell everybody you're a friend of the family. You just
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: showed up that you were not driving. That is the
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: one count that is the judge has ordered to stay in.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Other two others of influencing witnesses have been dropped. The
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: point about selling his wife's clothes and furs. That was
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: handled by a lawyer for the estate who testified flaude.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm the one who gave him that advice
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: because I knew he had to pay these these bequests
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: wife had left in her will over three hundred thousand dollars.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: He needed cash. These assets were losing value quickly, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I told him to sell it. Guy named Stan Smith,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: so that initial WHOA, you're talking about fur coats and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: jewelry as assets that are going to lose value quickly.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: What kind of line of b s are you trying
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to sell the art I'm trying to the fur coat
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: is a fur coat man. The influence though that he
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: sold it for himself was a little misleading. The money
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: he got the money to pay okay, people whose wife
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: had left in her lill at the advom the advice
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: of the estate lawyer. These are little things that the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: defense has been nipping at along the way, and that's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: why there's going to be a very challenging case for
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: the jury. First charged with malice murder, which is premeditated felony,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: murder which is a death occurring during a felony which
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: would have been aggravated assault, possession of a firearm. The
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: guy had about forty five weapons, including multiple long guds
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: in his home. Man. That was a moment in court
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: when they brought in his home arsenal into the courtroom.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: It also appears suspicion was raised due to his behavior
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: after his wife death. He reportedly instructs the witness is
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Danny Joe Carter, who was driving the suv, to tell
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: cops she wasn't even in the car. Okay, that's not good.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: He then leaves a voicemail for her husband implying that
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Carter should quote cease communicating her recollections to law enforcement
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: because the statement's placed me, the defendant, in risk of
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: immediate carceration. I e. If you don't shut up, I'm
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: going to jail. That's another thing. He also text mc
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: ivor reportedly asked his friend Charles Crane to retract a
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: statement he made to the media after Crane said mc
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: ivor took his gun out because he thought they were
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: pulling up into a Black Lives Matter march and that
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the gun went off when they hit a speed bump. Okay,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: now we know that Diane handed him the gun and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: and he was overheard by a nurse saying he was
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: cleaning the gun and it went off, cleaning the gun
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: in the back seat. So now we've got a fit
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: asleep apnea, we've got a Black Lives Matters march, we've
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: got blaming the homeless, and now we've got he's cleaning
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: his gun. Okay, art Uh, these are these are the
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: things that were not looking good. But he said he
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: was the nursing said he was cleaning the gun in
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: the bathroom, and two other nurses came on to say
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: they did not hear him say that at all. That
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: nurse was passing back quickly. But there were a lot
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: of contradictions. And this guy is not very smart, uh,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: taking his own advice, uh, and constantly looking for the
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: reason why would he have a gun out? Uh? And
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: why carried out? Oh? I forgot the carjack story. Hold on, wait,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: then there was the carjack story where he thought they
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: were getting car jacked. But and then and then there's
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the gun went off when they hit a bump. Let
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: me recare who has has these visions of of horror
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: and danger in downtown Atlanta going on in his head?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: So he played to that. He played to that mentality,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: But he certainly miscalculated that that was the reason he
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: was looking for an explanation of why he had the gun.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: One thing they have missed, Nancy, and I don't pick
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: up on it, but his wife and Diane had been
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: drinking that night and she had passed a little wine
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: bag back and forth to clean her and texts in
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: the back seat. That drinking aspect has not come out
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: or factored into anything. And uh, you know, I am
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: just wondering why that. You know, that's something that when
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I interviewed texts, he made a big deal out up
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: saying that, you know, he didn't like wine. Wine was
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: his wife's thing, uh, you know, suggesting to me he
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: hadn't been drinking that night. When a nurse later smelled
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: alcohol on his breath at the hospital. Art Harris, Art
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Harris what have I been telling you since I met
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: you back? And I don't know when the devil is
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: in the bottle art. That's a piece of advice that
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you could do well to heed. Now I'm going to
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: go to the expert in this line of defense, Mickey Sherman.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Of course. Uh, Mickey, defense lawyer, author of a book.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You can find that on Amazon. How can you defend
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: those people? You know, I'm not totally knocked over with
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: the state's case, but changing your story over and over, Hey,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: he should have just shut the hay up, but be
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: he didn't, and he changed his story Mickey multiple times.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: What happens if the case hits some some speed mumps
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: not the people, but the case did. There's just so many.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: But the thing that I'm concerned with there is there
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: when the when someone asked what happened and the woman
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: said it was an accident. That's that's that's a that's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: a character's statement as far as unconstra this character would
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: to say that I don't think he did it. I
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: agree with you, I agree with you. To me, that's
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the most powerful defense I've heard so far. Uh. To
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Karen Start New York psychologists, that's what the shooting victim said,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: the wife said, but you know, then you got to
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: take into account he had just taken out from his
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: wife a three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It's very
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: confusing as a conundrum in in everything that's being described
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: because on the one hand, he does seem to have
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the sweet problem, and um, there's not a lot of
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: evidence to support that he murdered her. But his behavior
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: and the contradictions that are her selling her stuff and
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's all this money involve that he
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: will Inherit makes you suspicious of what really happened. I
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: mean it accidental shooting. Then the wife doesn't want him
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: in there, but says it was an accident. This is
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: this is a very complicated case and difficult to try.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: But really, what would she know she was in the
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: front seat. Um, take a listen to the state's main witness,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Danny Carter, during direct testimony. The gun was right here,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: and that's where it was when I had seen it before.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: When he said, Darling, hand me my gun, Diane said, text,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where your gun is, and he
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: said it's in the console. I saw a puppa smoke
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and I could see his hand his hands, and I
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: could see the top of the gun. Diane turned around
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: like she turned around this way. She flung around, and
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: she says, text, what did you do? Kind of um
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: just hold. He was holding her head and saying, Diane, Diane.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: But you know, contained take a listen to the state's
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: closing argument. Now I'm spending just the last few minutes
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: just talking to you for a minute about Diane Magaga.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Self made. She's from Alabama. We know she had no
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: biological family. She started out as a bookkeeper. She told Elane,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: my greatest spear is to not have enough money to
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: live the kind of lifestyle I want to. She was
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: great with numbers, specialized in real estate, owned several companies,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: president and CEO of US enterprises. She was a multi medionaire.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: She had a sharp term but she loved awesome. She
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: had extravagant lifestyle. She wanted her personal loans for a lives.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: She loved her Corey family, and she absolutely loves dannat
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: your card. They had the best friendship ever because if
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Dannie Joe fell out of life, she took her back
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and he had this real special bond together. In fact,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: this thing affected them Joe so bad she took a
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: drink for the first time the night after Ryan Y,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I started at my presentation by asking you a question.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Who will stand for damage? Who will stand for Diamagon?
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Carl Dane tried to stand up for herself in her
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: last greggy moments. Dr Susanne Hardy asked her a question.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Dr Susanne Hardy asked her a question, do you want
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: to see you that I might put this to Danny Mouth.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to speak. Dane knew she
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: was going. She said to it over and over again.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Am I dying? H Am I dying? We talked with folks,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: especially they know you know, And so she asked a question. Listen.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: He told me that it was an accident. Do you
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: want to see you're listening? And she said, and here
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: is the defense. Did the state proof to you that
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: it was not an accident. Here's what they're saying to you.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Pay no attention to the reasonable doubts that you've heard
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: from Mr Samuel a list of at least six teams.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Pay no attention to those doubts, rely on speculation. And
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I want to tell you that speculation is different than
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. We do not convict people on the clouds
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: in fos of speculation, but on the bedrock of fact.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: That's what we do. Maybe there was another will, search, warrants,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: um gathering documents, every conceivable method was used to try
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: to bid bring you a second will. There wasn't one.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: There's email traffic in two thousand and eleven, we're gonna
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: do it. Here's what we're talking about. We have an
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: agreeing on everything, and from two thousand and eleven to
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the date this happened, there is no second will. There
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: was an advertisement taken out in the legal oregon of
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Fulton County. Any law or anybody that knows anything about
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: a second will, come tell us, Come tell us you
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: prepared to come, tell us you saw Come tell us,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: I've got it. Maybe there was another will, that's pure speculation.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe she would foreclose on the loan. Well, there's not
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: a shred of evidence that she did or was going to.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: In fact, it was rolled over. Maybe they argued in private, maybe,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: but there's no evidence of that either. Maybe he had
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: another woman in his life and we've learned about all
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the speculation, but that's maybe. Again that's speculation. Maybe maybe maybe,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: pay no attention to the proof of accident, rely on
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: our red herrings to reach your decision. That's what the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: state's case has been in this case, nothing more than
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: the maybe's Again, this trial is an accident in search
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: of a motive, and it's a tale of innuendos and
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: undelivered promises. Each of you has the ability to say, well,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: let's examine what everybody has said here what let's examine
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: what the evidence is in this case. And each of
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: you has the right to make an independent decision and say,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: you know something, for me, the state just improve the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: case for me. I'm not going to rely on all
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the may beast for me, I don't believe the state
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: proved their case. And you have the right to have
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that opinion respected by your fellow jurors. So when you
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: go back to deliberating, we don't have a chance to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: come back and talk to you or get some questions answered.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Somebody is going to have to say, well, what about this,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: here's what I think. Respect my views as well. And
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: when you do that, and you cut away all the maybes,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: and you cut away all the innuendos, and you cut
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: away all the undelivered promises your verdict should be not
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: guilty as to all counts in this and the jury
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: deliberating Now Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
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