Latest / Scrubbing In with Becca Tilley & Tanya Rad / Audacity and Action with Bozoma Saint John PART 1

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Audacity and Action with Bozoma Saint John PART 1 · Scrubbing In with Becca Tilley & Tanya Rad

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Speaker 1: Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya rad and iHeartRadio
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Speaker 1: and two time People's Choice Award winning podcast.
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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, we are scrubbing In. We have a very
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Speaker 2: exciting guest today. She really, I would say, is the
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Speaker 2: embodiment of what we strive for this podcust.
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Speaker 3: To me, she is the embodiment of modern woman energy.
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Speaker 4: She was a CMO at Netflix, CMO at Uber. I mean,
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Speaker 4: she has just done so many things. She's on the
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Speaker 4: Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, She's now on this new
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Speaker 4: show on Brand with Jimmy Fallon.
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Speaker 5: She has a book, she has her own hair Caroline.
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Speaker 3: I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
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Speaker 5: I don't really feel like I feel like we should
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Speaker 5: just get right into talking to her.
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Speaker 4: Yes, no, no, no stalling needed, No stalling needed.
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Speaker 5: Everyone welcome, buzz and mus saying, John, we have been
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Speaker 5: so excited to have you on the podcast. You are
1:02
Speaker 5: someone you know, Tanya's what your tagline? Your mission is
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Speaker 5: modern woman Yeah, energy, and I can't think of someone
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Speaker 5: who has who represents that more that we've had on
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Speaker 5: the podcast.
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Speaker 3: Thank you well, because I feel like, Okay, so you
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Speaker 3: have this new show, you have so much going on.
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Speaker 6: I have so much going on, so I do want to.
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Speaker 4: Dive into because I also hate the question of like
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Speaker 4: how do you do it all? Because nobody asks a
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Speaker 4: man that. So it's like, I don't really like you're
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Speaker 4: doing it all. Yes, you're doing all these things. I'm
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Speaker 4: doing it, But I feel like, so for people that
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Speaker 4: may not watch The Real Housewives or may not know you,
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Speaker 4: you are such a powerhouse business woman, like you have
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Speaker 4: done so much and particularly in marketing. Yes, how did
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Speaker 4: you get your start in all of this?
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Speaker 1: Ah, it's such a it's such a strange question to
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Speaker 1: me because it's like I don't know one marketer who's like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I went to school and studied marketing right right, anybody
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Speaker 1: who says that, you know, Like, you know, I was
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Speaker 1: in English and FM studies major with who was also
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Speaker 1: pre med.
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Speaker 5: You know.
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Speaker 1: So I was going to med school and I took
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Speaker 1: the MCAT like I did. I was doing all the things,
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Speaker 1: and I decided to take a year between undergrad and
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Speaker 1: going to med school. And I was from College Springs, Colorado.
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Speaker 1: I went to school in Connecticut. I was like, Okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go to New York City trying to
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Speaker 1: see what that's about. I knew one person there, like
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Speaker 1: one person, and she had graduated the year before me,
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Speaker 1: and she was at Columbia Film School getting her master's.
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Speaker 1: And so I struck up a deal because also my
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Speaker 1: parents were like, we are absolutely not funding them.
2:39
Speaker 6: I don't even know what you think you're doing.
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Speaker 1: And I made a deal with her and her roommate
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Speaker 1: that if they let me sleep on the couch, I
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Speaker 1: would and if they bought the food, I would cook
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Speaker 1: and clean, okay, And so that was our agreement. And
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Speaker 1: I just founded the pavement and called the temp agencies
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Speaker 1: and did odd jobs, you know, hoping and praying that
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Speaker 1: I would just make enough money so that I went
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Speaker 1: starve and could make it through the year and sort
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Speaker 1: of just give myself some space where I went to
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Speaker 1: med school because I knew that once you get to
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Speaker 1: med school, that's twelve years, you know what I mean
3:13
Speaker 1: of like life that you are studying and working and
3:17
Speaker 1: not sleeping until you have your own like you know,
3:22
Speaker 1: your career that you can not relax in, but you know,
3:25
Speaker 1: you just have a little more normalcy. And I just
3:27
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to do any of that. And so one day,
3:30
Speaker 1: like the magic destiny moment happened, right, which I feel
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Speaker 1: like happens for all of us, just some of us
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Speaker 1: miss it. And I called the Temp agency and they
3:41
Speaker 1: told me that Spike Lee had fired his assistant and
3:44
Speaker 1: that he needed someone to come and answer the phones
3:46
Speaker 1: at the reception for a few days. I said, great, fantastic,
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Speaker 1: And I go there and it's not his production company.
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Speaker 1: It's a new ad agency that he's opened in partnership
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Speaker 1: with DDB Worldwide. Ddb's the agency that Madmen was made on,
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Speaker 1: and so it's storied. I mean it's like on Madison Avenue.
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Speaker 1: It's between forty ninth and fiftieth. I mean it is
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Speaker 1: prime time, you know.
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Speaker 6: And so I walk in there and it is just.
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Speaker 1: Like classic advertising space, like everybody's creative.
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Speaker 6: Spike is smart and sharp, you know, he walks in
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Speaker 6: the door. You can feel the aura.
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Speaker 1: And that day he walked in, he looked at me
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Speaker 1: and he was just like, God, damn it. They sent
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Speaker 1: us Miss America, you know, because I was sitting there
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Speaker 1: with like my hair like pulled back in the tight buns,
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Speaker 1: prying like the only suit I had, which happened to
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Speaker 1: be gray and polyester. And that is not a made
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Speaker 1: up story, okay, and my little pearls because I want
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Speaker 1: to be professional.
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Speaker 6: And I looked at him kind of.
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Speaker 1: Like, you must not know who I am, first of all,
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Speaker 1: to be twenty two again, you know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because I literally just like
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Speaker 1: Miss America. I was like, I'm a triple major from Wesleyan.
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Speaker 1: I'm studying English and African American studies. I've read all
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Speaker 1: of the big authors everyone that you would know and
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Speaker 1: that you've read, I've written about them.
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Speaker 6: And I'm also going to med school, so I don't
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Speaker 6: know who you're talking to you.
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Speaker 1: And he was carrying this, you know, stack of paper
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Speaker 1: under his arm, and I was like, and what is that, sir?
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Speaker 1: And he said it was his new script for Vamboozoo.
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Speaker 1: First of all, the fact that he was even answering
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Speaker 1: my questions is also, I think just a matter of
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Speaker 1: shock that he had because he was just like, hold on,
5:29
Speaker 1: so she was Miss America and now she's got a
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Speaker 1: mouse on her and she's saying all kind of stuff.
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Speaker 6: And I just asked him if I.
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Speaker 1: Could read it, and so he kind of like incredulously,
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Speaker 1: you know, threw it on the desk and I went home,
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Speaker 1: I took a red pen to it.
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Speaker 6: I marked it up.
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Speaker 1: I gave him points on character development and grammar, SENTI structure.
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Speaker 6: And I took him back to the office like a
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Speaker 6: couple of days later.
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Speaker 1: It was supposed to be my last day, right answering
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Speaker 1: the phones, and he literally was like looked at me
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Speaker 1: like he was gonna strangle me.
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Speaker 6: I mean, he was just like, you took a red
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Speaker 6: pen to my script, Like are you out of your mind?
6:13
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, I didn't know. That's not
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Speaker 6: what I was supposed to do.
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Speaker 1: By the way, the office was like open floor plan type,
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Speaker 1: and so when I tell you that, everybody had held
6:22
Speaker 1: their breath, you know.
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Speaker 6: And that's when I knew I was in trouble because
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Speaker 6: I was like, oh, oh, was I not supposed to
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Speaker 6: do that?
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Speaker 1: So he grabs a script, he stomps off into his office.
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Speaker 1: He had, like the one office that had a door,
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Speaker 1: slams it.
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Speaker 6: I'm sitting there and I'm.
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Speaker 1: Thinking like, do I take my purse now and leave
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Speaker 1: or do I wait to be told to leave, you
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Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I was just kind of
6:43
Speaker 1: sitting there tense waiting. It felt like I had waited
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Speaker 1: for like four hours, but I swear it was probably
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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. And he opens the door and he was like,
6:51
Speaker 1: he made some good points. You should stick around.
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Speaker 6: Wow, And that was it.
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Speaker 1: The rest is history. Like twenty five years later, I'm
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Speaker 1: still in the business.
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Speaker 5: So was your mentality like you do you not find
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Speaker 5: situations or people intimidating in the sense of feeling emboldened
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Speaker 5: to ask questions? Or did was that like youth and
7:15
Speaker 5: just being I think.
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Speaker 1: It's a combination of things. I think it's a combination
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Speaker 1: of like naivete and also nurture. Ye know, my parents
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Speaker 1: are very bold. My dad was a orphan by the
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Speaker 1: time he was fourteen, from a very small village in
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Speaker 1: the western part of Ghana. Like there is no percentage
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Speaker 1: for people like him who make it out of there.
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Speaker 1: It doesn't exist, you know. And very very long story short.
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Speaker 1: He has two PhDs, moves to the US, raised four daughters.
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Speaker 1: I mean, like it just boldness is part of the DNA,
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Speaker 1: you know, you have to have SMA audacity in order
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Speaker 1: to think that, like, oh, I'm from this place and
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Speaker 1: no one is gonna tell me that I can't make no. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and my mother much the same. I mean, she's a
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Speaker 1: fashion designer by trade. She chose to be a homemaker
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Speaker 1: and she you know, it's like she never let me
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Speaker 1: sit in like any kind of wallow. Yeah, you know,
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Speaker 1: like when we moved to Caldo Springs, Colorado's I was
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Speaker 1: I was twelve, and we were coming straight from Ghana,
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Speaker 1: although we had lived in many places before that and
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Speaker 1: had a very strong self like sense of self, you know,
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Speaker 1: and I was very surprised by my classmates and by
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Speaker 1: the teachers or even my principal, who were.
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Speaker 6: Just like they had this pity for me.
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Speaker 1: Oh you know, like it's poor thing she's come from Africa, right,
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Speaker 1: because what they saw right was like freaking nineteen eighty nine,
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Speaker 1: they had Sally's brothers on TV talking about these children
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Speaker 1: are worth once.
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Speaker 6: In a day. By the way, the commercials still exists.
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Speaker 6: I hate those, oh yeah.
9:01
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, you've got the distended bellies
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Speaker 1: and figs on eyes and it's like the mission trips
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Speaker 1: and let's go dig a Well, oh.
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Speaker 6: My god, are you kidding me? Is that the only
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Speaker 6: thing that you know about Africa?
9:13
Speaker 5: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Like you don't know that it like started civilization, that
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Speaker 1: the clothes you're wearing right now that the weaving method
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Speaker 1: came from Africa? Are you not aware of like music
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Speaker 1: and food and like fashion and sports? Like are you
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Speaker 1: not aware? And I knew that at twelve, Like I
9:30
Speaker 1: looked at those people were just like, why.
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Speaker 6: Are you feel sorry for me? Yeah?
9:33
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, your English is so good. I'm like,
9:36
Speaker 1: we speak five languages. I'm like, are you talking about
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Speaker 1: you know? And so I think a combination of yes,
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Speaker 1: nurture for sure, and then also the nature of who
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Speaker 1: my parents are in the DNA that I have have
9:51
Speaker 1: made me very bold. But then on top of it,
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Speaker 1: like my like cause you can be given those things
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Speaker 1: and then not do anything right. Yeah, So I do
9:59
Speaker 1: take some credit for who I am.
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Speaker 5: Right, Like, you get the tools and how you use them, yeah, and.
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Speaker 6: You cannot apply them right, you can decide not to
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Speaker 6: do anything with it.
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Speaker 5: I think that fear also paralyzes, you know, the fear
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Speaker 5: of one thing. I feel like that my family is
10:16
Speaker 5: something that I've seen and like just the trajectory of
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Speaker 5: my family is the fear of trying something and failing,
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Speaker 5: as opposed to thinking, just try it and if it happened, made.
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Speaker 6: Real stick, you know.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, But I do think it is interesting because our education,
10:29
Speaker 5: our education system, that.
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Speaker 6: Is what we saw absolutely. So people see, yeah, people
10:35
Speaker 6: see which is today.
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Speaker 1: But I tell people that, like, you know, I take
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Speaker 1: a bunch of friends with me to Ghana every year
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Speaker 1: every December. I mean when I say I'm taking friends,
10:46
Speaker 1: I take one hundred and twenty five people. Wow, I mean,
10:49
Speaker 1: and we are having a good time.
10:51
Speaker 6: And I cannot tell you.
10:53
Speaker 1: Just yesterday I had this conversation, you know where somebody's
10:55
Speaker 1: just like, ooh, so, you know, like, what's like am
10:59
Speaker 1: I going to And I'm like, you backpacked through Europe
11:03
Speaker 1: when you were freaking like nineteen Okay, you were staying
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Speaker 1: in hostels.
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Speaker 6: I'm telling you that there's a five star hotel.
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Speaker 1: You'll be driven around like we're gonna be part of
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Speaker 1: drinking bove.
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Speaker 6: Okay, You're worried about Africa. Look you are you serious
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Speaker 6: right now?
11:19
Speaker 5: You know?
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Speaker 1: So it's just like it's still I feel like that
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Speaker 1: conversation has really not changed that much because you know, unfortunately,
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Speaker 1: Africa has been the victim of bad marketing for four
11:31
Speaker 1: hundred plus years, and so I think that it would
11:35
Speaker 1: change overnight. No, of course not, but I think it
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Speaker 1: requires people like me, people who have grown up on
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Speaker 1: the continent, people who are curious about the continent.
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Speaker 6: To actually change any of that understanding and behavior. Well, yeah,
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Speaker 6: to educate yourself into like hell yeah, yeah, it's interesting
11:53
Speaker 6: and go to the freaking Himalayas. Don't know anybody over there.
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Speaker 1: Why did you know that you could go to Egypt,
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Speaker 1: you know, or go to Tanzania, Like, I don't understand why.
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Speaker 4: It's interesting though, that you said marketing marketing for Africa,
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Speaker 4: Like I because of like your position and kind of
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Speaker 4: like where you've been in your profession. Do you do
12:13
Speaker 4: you kind of look at everything through a marketing everything everything.
12:16
Speaker 6: Because everything is It's so true, everything is.
12:20
Speaker 3: Do you feel like marketing is is the the end
12:23
Speaker 3: all be all for any business?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, it's it's the it's the center. It's
12:28
Speaker 6: like it's like it's like.
12:30
Speaker 3: It's like fail or not fail based on marketing.
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Speaker 1: Based on marketing. Absolutely, you can have and there are
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Speaker 1: so many examples. You can have the best products on
12:37
Speaker 1: the planet. If it's marketing badly, you fail.
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Speaker 6: Right, you know what I mean? Like there's rarely any
12:44
Speaker 6: product that succeeds to any kind of like real level
12:51
Speaker 6: with bad marketing with that without any good marketing.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to tell people that are listening, and
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Speaker 4: I want to get it right in terms of like
13:13
Speaker 4: your creds, but in terms of your CMO of huge
13:17
Speaker 4: companies Netflix.
13:18
Speaker 6: Uber, More Music.
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Speaker 3: I mean, so these are all these are all.
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Speaker 4: Huge companies with lots of success. Yes, But are you
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Speaker 4: somebody that when you're kind of like, do you ever
13:30
Speaker 4: scroll on social media and like see businesses, new businesses
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Speaker 4: and be like, oh, I want to like I wish
13:34
Speaker 4: I could talk to them, right, I do.
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Speaker 6: That all the time. Do you really my job at uber?
13:39
Speaker 3: Oh you reach out to them?
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Speaker 6: Yeah? Because I was like, first of.
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Speaker 1: All, I'm a nerd of this, you know, like I
13:47
Speaker 1: am the person who goes to the cocktail party and
13:49
Speaker 1: only wants.
13:50
Speaker 6: To talk about business.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I am that person. I love that, Like, don't
13:56
Speaker 1: catch me in the corner. I will not ask you
13:58
Speaker 1: about your kids, you know what I mean. I'm gonna
13:59
Speaker 1: be like, so, yeah, that business, you know, and maybe
14:02
Speaker 1: if you don't know what I'm talking about, then probably
14:04
Speaker 1: gonna move on to somebody else.
14:05
Speaker 5: You know.
14:06
Speaker 3: But what did you reach out to Uber and say?
14:08
Speaker 6: Well?
14:08
Speaker 1: Because I so at the time, I was head of
14:10
Speaker 1: global marketing at Apple Music launched Apple Music. Then the
14:13
Speaker 1: keynote like highly successful. Everything was going great. Tim Cook
14:18
Speaker 1: does like one cover a year, and that year was
14:21
Speaker 1: Fast Company. He was on the on the cover and
14:24
Speaker 1: I was on the inside cover.
14:25
Speaker 3: I mean like crazy were great.
14:27
Speaker 1: And I had one office in Cupertino and one in
14:31
Speaker 1: La And I was sitting in the office in Cupertino.
14:33
Speaker 6: I remember it is like like it happened yesterday. I
14:35
Speaker 6: was sitting in the office in Cupertino.
14:37
Speaker 1: Uh, and I was scrolling like Facebook or something, and
14:42
Speaker 1: I was seeing all the delete Uber craziness, you.
14:46
Speaker 6: Know, delayed Uber. You know, it's like get rid of them,
14:48
Speaker 6: bring them down.
14:50
Speaker 1: And crazy enough, like maybe I don't even say two
14:53
Speaker 1: weeks before that, I'd been in a meeting where we
14:56
Speaker 1: were talking about the success of Uber and how amazing
14:58
Speaker 1: of a company it was, because it was like this, like,
15:01
Speaker 1: you know, just came from nowhere and you know, changed
15:06
Speaker 1: the entire way that we operate anything. And again, at
15:10
Speaker 1: the time, I was ahead of global marketing at Apple Music,
15:12
Speaker 1: which was also disruptor because people had been buying songs
15:16
Speaker 1: for nine nine cents per song on iTunes. iTunes was
15:21
Speaker 1: the mass market leader. Ninety eight percent of the market
15:23
Speaker 1: came through iTunes, and we were telling people, hey, pay
15:27
Speaker 1: nine ninety nine and get like streaming of every song that's.
15:31
Speaker 6: Ever been recorded in the history of man.
15:33
Speaker 1: It was like people did not understand what we're talking about,
15:36
Speaker 1: and we're trying to convince some of this.
15:37
Speaker 6: So I was over there looking at Uber, like, now,
15:40
Speaker 6: how they do that, you know what I mean? How
15:41
Speaker 6: they convince people to try something new?
15:43
Speaker 1: Taxies have been around forever, but it's like, now I
15:46
Speaker 1: gotta go on my phone and order the thing, and
15:49
Speaker 1: then it's gonna come.
15:49
Speaker 6: To me, like how, you know. And I was sitting
15:53
Speaker 6: there and I saw all of the like the leade
15:55
Speaker 6: Uber stuff and it was falling fast. I mean it was.
15:58
Speaker 6: It was pure destruction.
16:00
Speaker 1: So I called Ariana Huffington, who happens to be a
16:02
Speaker 1: friend and she also sat on the board of Uber,
16:04
Speaker 1: and I was like, girl, oh my god, tell me
16:07
Speaker 1: what's happening, you know, And she's like, oh, Darling, it's
16:10
Speaker 1: a disaster.
16:11
Speaker 6: And I was like, get me Travis.
16:13
Speaker 1: Kaldik, like I want to talk to him, you know,
16:15
Speaker 1: and I want to know what's going on, like I
16:17
Speaker 1: and maybe I could help, you know. I was like,
16:18
Speaker 1: who is running marketing over there? You know, and she's like,
16:21
Speaker 1: I'll get you a lunch. So actually we took lunch
16:24
Speaker 1: here in La He flew down from San Francisco, and
16:28
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be an hour lunch. It was
16:29
Speaker 1: eight hours worth of like argument, I mean, like throw down,
16:34
Speaker 1: like I'm my best, like you know, advice, I'm trying, and.
16:39
Speaker 6: I'm just like this grateful motherfuck you know, like who doesn't.
16:43
Speaker 5: Listen to me? You know?
16:44
Speaker 1: But he he had pushed back, and he did have
16:47
Speaker 1: some good points about certain things, and so then I would,
16:50
Speaker 1: you know, rejigger And then before he knew it, I
16:52
Speaker 1: was I was here on a napkin writing things down
16:55
Speaker 1: and drawing diagrams and all.
16:57
Speaker 6: Kind of stuff.
16:57
Speaker 1: And at the end of eight hours, he was like,
17:00
Speaker 1: come work for Uber and I was like, I don't know,
17:06
Speaker 1: but something in me was like, yeah, that's where you're going.
17:08
Speaker 6: I was like, yes, I go home.
17:11
Speaker 3: I'm like, but things are so good. Did you made
17:15
Speaker 3: the switch? Because I could feel it in your gut,
17:19
Speaker 3: in my gut, my.
17:21
Speaker 1: Intuition told me, and everybody said don't go. Literally everyone
17:25
Speaker 1: my own mother was like.
17:26
Speaker 6: Oh my God, my child, like she's ruining her life,
17:30
Speaker 6: you know.
17:30
Speaker 3: And I was like, like, have this amazing thing going
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Speaker 3: and then you're going to delete?
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Speaker 6: Or are you kidding?
17:36
Speaker 1: I was sitting at Apple. I was on the inside
17:39
Speaker 1: cover of Fast Company with Tim talking about She's great.
17:43
Speaker 1: I had been on the stage at the Worldwide Developers Conference.
17:46
Speaker 6: People knew who I was.
17:48
Speaker 3: I was making my mark, and yet your gut said go.
17:52
Speaker 6: I said go.
17:54
Speaker 1: And it was very, very scary to listen to my
17:58
Speaker 1: gut because everyone, even Ariana.
18:00
Speaker 5: Was like.
18:02
Speaker 6: You might want to, you know, like, and I was like, God,
18:07
Speaker 6: I think I'm going to resign.
18:10
Speaker 4: I did.
18:11
Speaker 5: Can I ask what some of the points tour that
18:14
Speaker 5: that you were like, I want to I want to
18:15
Speaker 5: turn this around, like what were your ideas because if
18:19
Speaker 5: I see some something or some brain getting canceled, especially
18:22
Speaker 5: one of that size.
18:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm like my I'm like you were.
18:29
Speaker 2: Chaos.
18:30
Speaker 6: I'll tell you. There were a number of things.
18:32
Speaker 1: So one, I mean, look, I and I don't, you know,
18:36
Speaker 1: pretend to wear a cape rank like that. But I
18:39
Speaker 1: am very intentional with where I am and what I'm doing,
18:42
Speaker 1: you know. And I knew that as one of the
18:46
Speaker 1: only senior black women in tech, like in any visible
18:50
Speaker 1: position that wherever I went would get attention.
18:54
Speaker 5: M M.
18:55
Speaker 1: I also knew that at the time Uber, one of
18:58
Speaker 1: the things that they were struggling with was diversity of
19:02
Speaker 1: anybody of color and of women in their C suite.
19:05
Speaker 1: When I got there, I was like, they were like
19:08
Speaker 1: eight bros. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, like one woman.
19:14
Speaker 1: And it was just like there were so many things
19:18
Speaker 1: that were wrong with the company. And at the same time,
19:21
Speaker 1: I was looking at corporate life and all of the
19:24
Speaker 1: struggles that I'd had even at Apple.
19:26
Speaker 6: Let's not get it twisted that.
19:28
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, like y'all want to
19:31
Speaker 1: point fingers at this company and say that it is
19:34
Speaker 1: doing wrong. It doesn't represent women, it doesn't represent people
19:38
Speaker 1: of color. They don't treat their drivers well, they're like,
19:41
Speaker 1: you know, unethical, they have all these bad practices. I
19:45
Speaker 1: want you to show me where Nirvana is. Like, please,
19:51
Speaker 1: one company come and say, oh, we have it perfectly right.
19:55
Speaker 6: One company do that. And I was like, you know what,
19:58
Speaker 6: if I can go to Uber and represent myself well
20:03
Speaker 6: turn around.
20:04
Speaker 1: A business, then you can't tell me that not any
20:07
Speaker 1: other company in these United States of America or globally
20:10
Speaker 1: can do that, you must And so part of it
20:14
Speaker 1: was like, you know the chip that I have on
20:16
Speaker 1: my shoulder that I was like, yeah, I'm going like
20:20
Speaker 1: you think you think I'm afraid of.
20:22
Speaker 3: It, Like it was like challenge, You're like yeah.
20:24
Speaker 1: And then plus, like I said, I'm a nerd of
20:26
Speaker 1: this industry and this business, and so seeing what I
20:30
Speaker 1: was seeing, I was like, you know, the battle and
20:33
Speaker 1: this was the argument that I had with Travis. I
20:35
Speaker 1: was like, the battle that you're fighting isn't against Lyft
20:38
Speaker 1: and whether or not their engineers are finding a faster
20:41
Speaker 1: way to get cars to people, because at the time,
20:44
Speaker 1: it was like you call the uber and it says
20:47
Speaker 1: it's coming to get you in seven minutes, right, and
20:49
Speaker 1: then Lyft was like six minutes, and you know what
20:52
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I was like, that's that's not the
20:54
Speaker 1: challenge you have. That's where everybody's focused right now. People
20:57
Speaker 1: don't trust you, they don't like you.
21:00
Speaker 6: And guess what we.
21:01
Speaker 1: Forgive brands and companies that we like, We give them grace.
21:06
Speaker 1: And so what he had to do at the time,
21:09
Speaker 1: what the company had to do at the time was
21:11
Speaker 1: rebuild trust. And that's not done through the algorithm, and
21:14
Speaker 1: so that was the argument we're having. And so I
21:17
Speaker 1: was like, shoot, look, what I'm gonna come do is
21:20
Speaker 1: build trust, like have people trust the company. And then
21:25
Speaker 1: I got there and two weeks later he was fired.
21:26
Speaker 1: So it was it was boo, that was a hard
21:31
Speaker 1: that was a hard time after he was gone.
21:34
Speaker 6: So what happened?
21:37
Speaker 1: This goes in my movie in my Bible, No kidding, No,
21:41
Speaker 1: it was like I keep saying, it was like Lord
21:46
Speaker 1: of the Flies, you know what that book where it's
21:48
Speaker 1: like all the kids are like left.
21:50
Speaker 6: On an island and then they survive. Yeah, they answers
21:52
Speaker 6: survive and like governing themselves.
21:53
Speaker 5: It was like that.
21:55
Speaker 6: Everybody was out for themselves.
21:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, trying to do what they're doing. But I
22:02
Speaker 1: still had my mission, you know. And also at the
22:07
Speaker 1: time I knew that all the vitrol that was coming
22:12
Speaker 1: for Uber, I was like, I knew that other companies
22:14
Speaker 1: deserved it as well, it wasn't just Uber. And so
22:18
Speaker 1: my press like mission and strategy became I'm gonna get
22:23
Speaker 1: in front of every publication, every stage, every every possible
22:29
Speaker 1: person who has a platform and tell them about what
22:33
Speaker 1: we need to do to change these corporate environments to
22:36
Speaker 1: people like me feel comfortable here and they can actually succeed.
22:40
Speaker 1: And so that's what I did. And the crazy thing
22:42
Speaker 1: is that people this is like kind of like a
22:47
Speaker 1: weird The people couldn't attack me, you know what I mean.
22:51
Speaker 1: I almost felt like I had teflon, because what are
22:53
Speaker 1: you gonna say to me? Like if I if you're
22:56
Speaker 1: interviewing me and You're like, why would you go to this?
23:00
Speaker 6: They're treating women badly and.
23:01
Speaker 1: People are cutting and I'm like, oh, yeah, but if
23:03
Speaker 1: I'm there, yeah, how you're not there?
23:07
Speaker 5: Yeah?
23:07
Speaker 1: And if you think they're treating me so badly, why
23:09
Speaker 1: don't you come over here and help me? Very few
23:12
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, yes, you know what, Yeah, I'm
23:14
Speaker 1: gonna quit my job and come over there too. And
23:18
Speaker 1: so so I was able to get the brand message
23:22
Speaker 1: across the objective of what we're trying to do, any
23:25
Speaker 1: policies that we're trying to change. Man, I was able
23:28
Speaker 1: to skate and get all those messages across because nobody
23:31
Speaker 1: was coming for me.
23:32
Speaker 6: They couldn't.
23:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it became the perfect opportunity for me
23:36
Speaker 1: as a marketer to sharpen my skill, you know, in
23:41
Speaker 1: terms of like, okay, does this theory work in terms
23:43
Speaker 1: of like building trust and what are the ways in
23:46
Speaker 1: which I'm going to do that over time and then
23:50
Speaker 1: amplify me as an executive. My face was everywhere. No,
23:55
Speaker 1: it was like I was on the cover of the
23:57
Speaker 1: New York Times. It will this woman say?
24:00
Speaker 6: Were okay challenge? Yeah? Yeah, the Sunday Times. I'm like,
24:08
Speaker 6: I guess I will. You know.
24:10
Speaker 1: But that's the point is that, Like so it was
24:12
Speaker 1: it was a twofold benefit, you know, which is one
24:17
Speaker 1: I could strapping my craft and two I.
24:21
Speaker 6: Could also become very well known for the job I
24:23
Speaker 6: was doing. Okay, so you are.
24:44
Speaker 4: Like you, you are an entity in and of itself,
24:46
Speaker 4: like you yourself right, and you are a business woman,
24:49
Speaker 4: You're respected, you have all this stuff. How did the
24:52
Speaker 4: Real Housewives come into play? Because I feel like, as
24:56
Speaker 4: a brand, it's not quite your brand.
25:01
Speaker 6: Let's put it this way. Which is that.
25:07
Speaker 1: And some of this is like in reverse, which is
25:09
Speaker 1: that there really hasn't been any job I've taken where
25:12
Speaker 1: people have cheered for me.
25:13
Speaker 6: I'm going there.
25:14
Speaker 1: I just told you the story of Uber. But the
25:16
Speaker 1: end of that year that I was at Uber, everybody
25:18
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, you could do it. Of course, yes,
25:22
Speaker 1: the brand turn around fos, you know, like like there,
25:28
Speaker 1: there hasn't been a job. Even when I left Pepsi
25:31
Speaker 1: to go to Beats Music, which wasn't acquired by Apple
25:35
Speaker 1: to become Apple Music, people didn't applaud because I was
25:40
Speaker 1: also going through a really tough personal time.
25:42
Speaker 6: My husband had just died of cancer. I was in
25:45
Speaker 6: deep grief.
25:46
Speaker 1: It was like three months after his death, and everybody
25:49
Speaker 1: was like, you're you know, you need to sit down
25:52
Speaker 1: and grieve and go to a cave and like find
25:54
Speaker 1: yourself and then you can make major life decisions. And
25:58
Speaker 1: I was like, nope, I'm taking my year old and
26:00
Speaker 1: I'm out of here, you know. And to me, it's
26:04
Speaker 1: like these moves that I've made have been pure instinct
26:09
Speaker 1: and intuition.
26:12
Speaker 6: I don't ask people their opinion and what I should do.
26:17
Speaker 3: That's very interesting.
26:18
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people, myself included, always absolutely.
26:22
Speaker 6: And you shouldn't do that.
26:24
Speaker 1: How the hell would they know how to advise you.
26:27
Speaker 1: They're only advising you based on their own perspective of
26:30
Speaker 1: the fear that they have for you. I'm not even
26:32
Speaker 1: say that these are haters who love you, who are like,
26:36
Speaker 1: don't do that, Oh my god, like, oh no, wait,
26:38
Speaker 1: wait for six months, make sure the market is more stable,
26:41
Speaker 1: you don't get some more money and then you can
26:44
Speaker 1: do the thing.
26:44
Speaker 6: Or you're starting to get popular over here, don't go
26:47
Speaker 6: try that over that thing over there? What if it fails.
26:50
Speaker 6: They're not telling you because they hate you they want
26:52
Speaker 6: you to do badly. They're telling me because they love you.
26:53
Speaker 6: They don't want you to fall down.
26:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's the point I've always felt like people
26:59
Speaker 5: like some soon you ask people, they're projecting their fear
27:02
Speaker 5: for you, yes, and do it. I don't know, but
27:06
Speaker 5: I was gonna ask, how do you learn to taste
27:08
Speaker 5: your Like how do you not get into the head
27:11
Speaker 5: space of needing someone to tell.
27:13
Speaker 6: You what first? And this is like the hardest thing,
27:15
Speaker 6: which is that you've got to actually not do that,
27:20
Speaker 6: like just don't just don't ask me, you know what
27:22
Speaker 6: I mean.
27:23
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not saying trust yourself first. I'm saying,
27:25
Speaker 1: don't ask first. So it's like, you know you're gonna
27:29
Speaker 1: take you know, you have an opportunity to take this
27:31
Speaker 1: job or date this person or whatever, and you're gonna
27:34
Speaker 1: go ask your friends, why are you doing that?
27:37
Speaker 6: Don't do that?
27:38
Speaker 1: You know, It's like part of it is the discipline
27:41
Speaker 1: of like sitting with yourself and being like what do
27:43
Speaker 1: I want?
27:44
Speaker 6: Mm hmm?
27:45
Speaker 1: You know it's like what do I want? I promise
27:47
Speaker 1: you you have the answer already, I promise you. Like,
27:51
Speaker 1: if nothing else, just look at my damn life.
27:53
Speaker 5: Man.
27:54
Speaker 1: You know, every decision that I've made has been because
27:57
Speaker 1: I have trusted myself. You can ask my mom, you
27:59
Speaker 1: can ask myself. So you can ask my sixteen best friends.
28:02
Speaker 6: They will tell you.
28:03
Speaker 1: I don't ask them should I do this? Should I
28:06
Speaker 1: quit this job? Should I wear this outfit? Should I
28:08
Speaker 1: date this person? I don't ask if their opinion. Now,
28:12
Speaker 1: when I'm in the job, I'll be like do I
28:13
Speaker 1: look good?
28:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's fine, right, But it's I.
28:18
Speaker 1: Don't ask, And my intuition has become so strong in that,
28:22
Speaker 1: like I know immediately when like I meet a person,
28:26
Speaker 1: or I walk into a room, or I'm being offered
28:29
Speaker 1: a deal whether or not I should take it.
28:31
Speaker 6: I know it immediately.
28:32
Speaker 1: Now sometimes I try to rationalize with myself, they're like, ooh, girl,
28:36
Speaker 1: it's not a good idea because.
28:38
Speaker 6: X, Y and Z thing. But I always know.
28:41
Speaker 1: I always know, and it is so hard because a
28:45
Speaker 1: lot of times those are really good opportunities on paper,
28:49
Speaker 1: you know, or like it looks like danger and you
28:52
Speaker 1: shouldn't go over there. And so when I was done
28:55
Speaker 1: with corporate life, I knew it. And when it was
28:58
Speaker 1: time for me to leave Netflix, I knew it. Now
29:02
Speaker 1: did I want to do it? No, because I'm a
29:05
Speaker 1: single mom who takes care of her parents and has
29:08
Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility, and it's not the type of
29:11
Speaker 1: thing you just get up and walk away from when
29:13
Speaker 1: your global chief marketing officer Netflix making a lot of
29:16
Speaker 1: money and I've got lots of homes, and.
29:20
Speaker 6: So it wasn't natural for me to be like, you
29:24
Speaker 6: know what, I'm going to leave this.
29:25
Speaker 1: But I knew I had to one because I wanted
29:28
Speaker 1: to write my book and I wanted to write it
29:31
Speaker 1: because I needed to get my memoir out. I needed
29:34
Speaker 1: it out of my body, you know. And part of
29:37
Speaker 1: that need was that people look at me or look
29:39
Speaker 1: at my career and they're just like, oh, yes, well
29:42
Speaker 1: you know, you climb the corporate ladder and you got this,
29:44
Speaker 1: you got that, And I'm like, you don't know the
29:46
Speaker 1: depths in which I've been, and that if I can
29:51
Speaker 1: be in those depths and rise, so can you. Because
29:54
Speaker 1: this isn't like how to get to the corner office
29:56
Speaker 1: in heels book the boss check.
29:58
Speaker 6: This is not that book. This is the downtrodden book.
30:01
Speaker 6: This is the book that tells me about grief, that
30:03
Speaker 6: lets you see my pain. That's like, hey, look. And
30:06
Speaker 6: then the next day I woke up and I did
30:08
Speaker 6: That's that's that book.
30:10
Speaker 1: And so for me, I knew I couldn't do the
30:13
Speaker 1: job I was doing in Netflix and also open myself
30:16
Speaker 1: up to all of that the chasm of emotion that
30:20
Speaker 1: I needed to tap into to write the book, because like,
30:24
Speaker 1: how do you do that on the weekend and then
30:25
Speaker 1: go back to the office on Monday.
30:27
Speaker 6: You can't do it?
30:28
Speaker 5: Well, I was gonna say, you're in these roles where
30:30
Speaker 5: you're not, I would imagine, is a weakness in those
30:35
Speaker 5: rules day to day, and then you're trying to open
30:38
Speaker 5: up this deep part of your soul and life.
30:40
Speaker 6: No you can't do it, Yeah, you can't do it.
30:43
Speaker 1: And I think for me it's like even after the
30:46
Speaker 1: book was published and I've promoted the hell out of
30:49
Speaker 1: it and I was done and sitting in my house
30:51
Speaker 1: and thinking should I go back? You know, and a
30:55
Speaker 1: few people have been circling. So I was taking meetings.
30:59
Speaker 1: The last one I took was in Paris. Really big
31:02
Speaker 1: job and the last thing to do is to meet
31:06
Speaker 1: the board. I was sitting in my hotel room. Board
31:09
Speaker 1: meeting in two days, and I was like, I don't
31:12
Speaker 1: want to. I was like, oh, but my brain was like, well,
31:17
Speaker 1: go meet with the board, and then when to make
31:19
Speaker 1: you the offer? Then you decline, you know what I mean.
31:21
Speaker 6: Please get the offer first. I was like, I don't
31:24
Speaker 6: want this job.
31:26
Speaker 1: Wasting my time and I'm wasting their time. I should
31:28
Speaker 1: just tell them. I struggled back and forth all night.
31:32
Speaker 1: Now that's the time when I could have called a
31:33
Speaker 1: girlfriend and been like, girl, I'm thinking, like, what do
31:35
Speaker 1: you think I should do?
31:36
Speaker 6: Should I go to the meeting? And then of course
31:38
Speaker 6: my friends would have been like, go to the meeting,
31:41
Speaker 6: you know, take the to the thing. But I knew
31:43
Speaker 6: I I knew I didn't have it.
31:45
Speaker 1: I didn't want it, and so I wrote the email
31:47
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, took the first flight
31:49
Speaker 1: out in the morning, and went home.
31:51
Speaker 6: And then I got here and I was like Oh God,
31:53
Speaker 6: what have I done?
31:55
Speaker 5: Yo?
31:55
Speaker 6: Yeah? And a few weeks later I get an email
32:00
Speaker 6: from Bravo. Oh wow, and they're like, hey, we've been
32:05
Speaker 6: trying to get you for a long time. No way, No,
32:08
Speaker 6: I didn't know that.
32:09
Speaker 1: They're like, but you haven't been available because the companies
32:12
Speaker 1: you worked for, like, we try to get to you,
32:14
Speaker 1: and you know, everybody blocks us.
32:16
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, yeah, well I'm right here.
32:18
Speaker 6: I'm not doing anything.
32:20
Speaker 1: And the meeting I had with them was one about
32:23
Speaker 1: the question you asked, which is just like, you know,
32:25
Speaker 1: your my reputation and like, is that the kind of like,
32:29
Speaker 1: you know, person that I want to be perceived as.
32:32
Speaker 1: And I think because of who I am and the
32:35
Speaker 1: experiences I've had and not having the privilege of, you know,
32:42
Speaker 1: being part of the majority, I've really been given everybody
32:47
Speaker 1: the bird for a long time.
32:48
Speaker 6: Like I don't subscribe to anybody's box. It really don't.
32:52
Speaker 1: I've never fit in the box. Do you know how
32:54
Speaker 1: many times I've been in like meetings or a review
32:57
Speaker 1: where somebody's like, oh, you know, if you were just
32:59
Speaker 1: a little more demure, if you were just a little nicer,
33:04
Speaker 1: if your voice didn't you know, rise every time you
33:07
Speaker 1: were passionate, you didn't use your hands so much, if
33:11
Speaker 1: you would wear less loud colors, you wouldn't wear that leather,
33:15
Speaker 1: if you would only pull your hair back, if you
33:17
Speaker 1: could only make it straight, Godly, I'm telling you.
33:21
Speaker 6: So it's like all of that. Yes, I could have
33:24
Speaker 6: taken that on, and many people do. I don't even
33:26
Speaker 6: blame them for doing it.
33:28
Speaker 1: Many people conform because it's so much scarier to not
33:32
Speaker 1: conform and to be out here and shunned. But it
33:35
Speaker 1: has become my superpower. And so in that meeting with them,
33:39
Speaker 1: I didn't look at the housewives and say, oh, how
33:40
Speaker 1: am I going to fit into this group? I said, oh, okay,
33:44
Speaker 1: I guess my job is to come change it. Yeah,
33:47
Speaker 1: my job is to come and show a different type.
33:49
Speaker 6: Of woman, because yeah, why do I need to be
33:52
Speaker 6: like them? Are you kidding me?
33:54
Speaker 1: It's like I'm great, Like I belong in spaces because
33:58
Speaker 1: I'm amazing and because.
33:59
Speaker 6: I I add to situations. And so have there been
34:04
Speaker 6: housewives who've been business people? Sure?
34:06
Speaker 1: Do any of them have twenty five years of marketing
34:09
Speaker 1: success and in the Hall of Fame, No, not a
34:11
Speaker 1: single one. Do any of them talk vulnerably about certain
34:17
Speaker 1: parts of their lives that you know, maybe are not
34:21
Speaker 1: so great to talk about, like fertility and fibroids and
34:25
Speaker 1: being a widow.
34:26
Speaker 6: No, so I'm going to do it.
34:29
Speaker 1: And I do think there's something very special about the
34:31
Speaker 1: relationship of women at this particular age in their late thirties, forties, fifties.
34:40
Speaker 1: It's a very special time.
34:42
Speaker 5: You know.
34:42
Speaker 6: It's like you're in this weird.
34:46
Speaker 1: Crux where it's like you're taking care of children maybe
34:51
Speaker 1: or your children are transitioning to other more responsible times
34:57
Speaker 1: in life. You're dealing with aging parents. Maybe you've had
35:02
Speaker 1: a marriage, maybe it's going south. Maybe it's ten years
35:06
Speaker 1: in and you're trying to figure out the spark again.
35:09
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't have a husband and you're trying to
35:11
Speaker 1: this dating life but you're old. Yeah, I was like,
35:15
Speaker 1: And then you've got your friends and.
35:17
Speaker 6: They're all going through this hormonal boat.
35:21
Speaker 1: And dealing with all these things. So it's not even
35:23
Speaker 1: so much that I don't appreciate conflict. I think conflict
35:25
Speaker 1: is necessary, Like that's what we are as human beings.
35:28
Speaker 1: Conflict comes with the thing. But do we have to
35:30
Speaker 1: have conflict over petty things? Right?
35:32
Speaker 5: No?
35:32
Speaker 6: We don't.
35:33
Speaker 1: And so my feeling wasn't that like, Oh, I'm gonna
35:35
Speaker 1: come into Housewives and it's going to ruin my reputation
35:39
Speaker 1: because I'm now going to be out here like having
35:41
Speaker 1: these petty ass conversations like I'm not doing that, yep.
35:44
Speaker 6: And it's like, honestly, like even the first few.
35:48
Speaker 1: Shoots that we had, I got feedback, you know from
35:52
Speaker 1: one of the producers like, Hey, you know, you're gonna
35:54
Speaker 1: have to really.
35:54
Speaker 6: Get in there, and I was just like, no, I
35:56
Speaker 6: don't think so.
35:57
Speaker 1: I think if you want me in there, then they
35:59
Speaker 1: got to rise to my level, like or We're gonna
36:02
Speaker 1: have to have conversations that are a little smarter because
36:04
Speaker 1: I'm not going here and I'm not explaining myself, you know, right,
36:08
Speaker 1: And that for me is the way that I've always
36:11
Speaker 1: conducted myself. And so my friends who see me on
36:14
Speaker 1: the show, or anybody who's ever worked with me, they'll
36:16
Speaker 1: point and be like, oh, that's boths.
36:17
Speaker 6: We know her, We've seen that girl before, you know,
36:20
Speaker 6: that's nothing new to them.
36:22
Speaker 1: And so when people are in the you know, in
36:25
Speaker 1: the Housewives like sort of world, are like, oh my gosh,
36:29
Speaker 1: how did you why are you coming in you did
36:31
Speaker 1: this and you said that they was just like mm hmm, yep.
36:33
Speaker 1: If you've known me the last like thirty years, you
36:35
Speaker 1: know too.
36:36
Speaker 5: But here I am when they reach out to you
36:40
Speaker 5: did your marketing cause you were saying you see everything
36:42
Speaker 5: to the marketing lens. Yeah, because house Lives has been
36:45
Speaker 5: a brand for so long, and yeah, it's been very
36:47
Speaker 5: much the same. I would say, like from the beginning,
36:50
Speaker 5: there hasn't been much shift. Did your brain go like,
36:54
Speaker 5: did you start is there ideas when you think about
36:57
Speaker 5: the housewives brains of all I want to change this not.
36:59
Speaker 1: Necessary about the brand, but well because the people are
37:03
Speaker 1: the brand. And so my thought was like, yes, starting
37:07
Speaker 1: with representation of me, like you know, where are the
37:12
Speaker 1: corporate baddies at the one who like their boobs and
37:15
Speaker 1: also have like a good resume And I didn't see that,
37:20
Speaker 1: And so my thought was like, yeah, in order to
37:25
Speaker 1: continue to evolve not only the brand of Housewives, but
37:32
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, marketing is storytelling. So
37:35
Speaker 1: in order to evolve the story of women of this
37:38
Speaker 1: particular age and taking them out of this really destructive
37:43
Speaker 1: concept that they can't have reasonable conflict and that they
37:48
Speaker 1: don't know how to manage their emotions and be true
37:53
Speaker 1: friends to each other.
37:54
Speaker 6: Or mortal enemies and do it with some gusto.
37:58
Speaker 5: You know.
37:58
Speaker 1: It's like we have to change that story. Like, like
38:03
Speaker 1: I told you, I have sixteen best friends. They're all
38:05
Speaker 1: about my same age, and we're dynamic.
38:09
Speaker 5: You know.
38:09
Speaker 1: It's like all of us are going through like all
38:11
Speaker 1: of these various challenges in life, and we don't all
38:17
Speaker 1: get along all of the time. But there is grace,
38:21
Speaker 1: you know for those hard moments. There are the you
38:24
Speaker 1: know sleepovers where it's like, look, I'm gonna help my
38:29
Speaker 1: girl out.
38:30
Speaker 5: You know.
38:30
Speaker 1: It was my best friends who showed up at my
38:32
Speaker 1: house the day my husband died. They slept in the
38:35
Speaker 1: front of my bed. They're the ones who washed my kid.
38:38
Speaker 1: They're the ones who did the dishes and cooked the
38:41
Speaker 1: food that I.
38:41
Speaker 6: Would not eat.
38:43
Speaker 1: No, like, we have enough drama in our lives that
38:47
Speaker 1: we can still showcase that without worrying about when somebody's
38:50
Speaker 1: late to dinner and fight about that.
38:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does have to be so fabricated because there's
38:56
Speaker 5: enough going on in life such real.
38:58
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that really support Actually when I
39:01
Speaker 1: joined was that I think, like everybody else. My assumption
39:05
Speaker 1: was that there must be like producer led stories, you
39:10
Speaker 1: know what I mean, or like they must like you know,
39:13
Speaker 1: go and go, you in the back and like, oh,
39:15
Speaker 1: you know what she said.
39:15
Speaker 6: But the thing is that.
39:19
Speaker 1: Now I understand why people fall in love on like
39:21
Speaker 1: love is blind and all these other things where you're
39:24
Speaker 1: just like how could you you know, because you're it's
39:28
Speaker 1: such an intense amount of time. You know, we filmed
39:30
Speaker 1: for like three months, three and a half months, and.
39:34
Speaker 6: Six days a week.
39:35
Speaker 1: You are spending eight hours probably with these women, you know,
39:39
Speaker 1: in either as a group or in various conversations. And
39:43
Speaker 1: I don't come over to your house and we're like, oh,
39:44
Speaker 1: so tell me about that banana bread you were baking.
39:47
Speaker 6: It's like why is your husband such a dog? What's
39:50
Speaker 6: wrong with your kids?
39:52
Speaker 5: You know?
39:53
Speaker 1: And so you're you're jumping into really deep, deep conversation
39:58
Speaker 1: right away all of the time. Like by the time
40:02
Speaker 1: I was done with the first season, I had talked
40:04
Speaker 1: to those women more than I talked to my sisters.
40:07
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I'm saying.
40:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I knew more about what was going on
40:10
Speaker 1: in their lives for that moment of time than I
40:13
Speaker 1: did any of my friends, and so when people have
40:17
Speaker 1: conflict with each other, it makes sense to me because
40:20
Speaker 1: the emotions are running deep. We're talking about very vulnerable things,
40:25
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm saying, like, I just want us
40:26
Speaker 1: to continue to elevate that conversation so we can get
40:29
Speaker 1: to like some real meat of what all of us.
40:31
Speaker 6: Deal with it.
40:33
Speaker 4: So when you were on So, was it that role
40:36
Speaker 4: or that like job, I call it a job even
40:38
Speaker 4: though yeah, I mean it is that got you the
40:41
Speaker 4: job for on Brama Jimmy Fallon.
40:43
Speaker 3: So they saw you on Housewives and like we want her.
40:47
Speaker 6: For this show. Yeah yeah.
40:48
Speaker 1: And that's again why it's like, look, you really can't
40:51
Speaker 1: listen to anybody, because had I listened to all of
40:54
Speaker 1: the people who were like.
40:56
Speaker 6: Don't do it, don't do that show, it's terrible for
40:58
Speaker 6: your reputation.
40:59
Speaker 1: Then Nancy, Jimmy's wife would not have seen me on
41:03
Speaker 1: that very first episode where they run through my resume,
41:06
Speaker 1: and she wouldn't have stopped everything she was doing, knowing
41:08
Speaker 1: her husband had been selling the show for the last
41:11
Speaker 1: two years. Cod and Find a co host met with
41:13
Speaker 1: a dozen cmos, none of them worked out and been
41:17
Speaker 1: like I think she's the one, and then him being like,
41:20
Speaker 1: who the house wife?
41:22
Speaker 5: You know?
41:22
Speaker 1: And then doing his research and watching the season and
41:27
Speaker 1: listening to my book and then calling me and being like, can.
41:32
Speaker 6: I talk to you about this because I really need
41:34
Speaker 6: you do this and I think it's perfect.
41:37
Speaker 5: All right, We have so much more to get to,
41:39
Speaker 5: but you will have to listen to part two of
41:42
Speaker 5: this interview with Bozima because it's just too much for
41:45
Speaker 5: one episode
41:46
Speaker 3: Too much goodness for one episode.