Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Mayor Jacob Frey - Minneapolis Is Under SIEGE By ICE & DHS
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- 1:51Speaker 2: Well.
- 1:51Speaker 1: Joining me now is the mayor of Minneapolis. It's Jacob
- 1:54Speaker 1: cried mister Maher. I appreciate you taking a few minutes
- 1:56Speaker 1: with me.
- 1:57Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me.
- 1:58Speaker 1: So, I mean, just we get a few you know.
- 2:02Speaker 1: One of the things that why I appreciate the longer
- 2:04Speaker 1: form is that we can put some context, so just
- 2:07Speaker 1: in a quick summary, because a lot of people don't
- 2:11Speaker 1: know what is the what powers individual mayors have. Right
- 2:16Speaker 1: in some cities it's a strong mayor. Some cities, it's
- 2:18Speaker 1: a weak mayor. Some cities it's up to the mayor
- 2:21Speaker 1: who the police chief is. Others it is not. So
- 2:23Speaker 1: give me the quick structure on law enforcement in your
- 2:27Speaker 1: authority over law enforcement. How much it's you, how much
- 2:30Speaker 1: it's the city council.
- 2:33Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, we began officially shifting our structure
- 2:38Speaker 3: of government to what is known as a strong mayor system.
- 2:41Speaker 3: I just call it a regular mayor system. It's sure
- 2:45Speaker 3: Innneapolis and St. Paul and Duluth in New York City.
- 2:48Speaker 3: Chicago is a strong mayor's system where the executive runs
- 2:52Speaker 3: the day to day operations and the council is like
- 2:54Speaker 3: the congress. They as laws or.
- 2:57Speaker 1: More of a legislature, also participating in the executive functions.
- 3:02Speaker 3: That's exactly right. So the police, for instance, report up
- 3:05Speaker 3: through the commissioner.
- 3:07Speaker 1: Ultimately, so you appoint the police commissioner or does the
- 3:10Speaker 1: city council have a saying that.
- 3:12Speaker 3: I appoint the Commissioner of Safety and the police of
- 3:17Speaker 3: chief the chief of police. Our council then confirms the appointment.
- 3:22Speaker 1: Gotcha? So I say this because when it comes to okay,
- 3:26Speaker 1: so let's take the so called phrasing of sanctuary city, right,
- 3:30Speaker 1: And I know you. At first it was an executive order.
- 3:33Speaker 1: Now it's been codified in the city law, and I
- 3:38Speaker 1: guess what is the line between city and state and
- 3:44Speaker 1: then what is the line between city and federal in
- 3:47Speaker 1: this sanctuary law.
- 3:48Speaker 3: Well, you're asking all the right questions. So we have
- 3:50Speaker 3: had what is called a separation ordinance in place well
- 3:55Speaker 3: before my time, right, with that order on some twenty
- 3:59Speaker 3: plus years, right, it's been quite simple, and it's virtually
- 4:03Speaker 3: been the same throughout that entire time period. The Council
- 4:06Speaker 3: lamented it a little bit recently, but it's virtually the
- 4:09Speaker 3: same thing. And the basis of it is this is
- 4:11Speaker 3: that our police officers, our officials at the City of Minneapolis,
- 4:16Speaker 3: do not coordinate with any federal agency around immigration enforcement work. So,
- 4:23Speaker 3: in other words, we will not work with ICE or
- 4:25Speaker 3: any other federal agency that has been deputized around immigration
- 4:29Speaker 3: enforcement work. We do work with them around general safety,
- 4:34Speaker 3: crime prevention, driving down homicides, that kind of stuff. And
- 4:40Speaker 3: we also won't ask people as to their documentation status.
- 4:44Speaker 3: And so when we haven't asked somebody their documentation status,
- 4:47Speaker 3: we haven't gathered any information, And because we haven't gathered
- 4:50Speaker 3: any information, when Donald Trump or anybody else asks us
- 4:53Speaker 3: for all of our information, our answer is quite simple,
- 4:55Speaker 3: which is we don't have it right.
- 4:58Speaker 1: What is the line of when you think somebody's immigration
- 5:01Speaker 1: status matters when you have a interaction with a resident
- 5:08Speaker 1: of your city.
- 5:09Speaker 3: For purposes of safety, It doesn't for purposes of calling
- 5:12Speaker 3: nine to one one, It doesn't. You know, I want
- 5:15Speaker 3: our police officers spending their limited and valuable time keeping
- 5:20Speaker 3: people safe, driving down murders, arresting carjackers, doing all the
- 5:25Speaker 3: basic stuff that any police officer would need to do
- 5:28Speaker 3: on a daily basis. I don't want them spending a
- 5:30Speaker 3: single second hunting down some father who just dropped his
- 5:35Speaker 3: kids off at daycares about to go work a twelve
- 5:38Speaker 3: hour shift, who happens to be from Ecuador. Like that
- 5:40Speaker 3: guy makes our city a better place. And so, as
- 5:42Speaker 3: far as you know, what is the line. Look, I
- 5:46Speaker 3: don't know if you committed a murder or you shot
- 5:49Speaker 3: a gun. I don't care where you're from. I don't
- 5:52Speaker 3: care who your parents were. You know there are consequences
- 5:55Speaker 3: for that, But I don't get the sense of spending
- 5:59Speaker 3: limited resource is on Immigration.
- 6:02Speaker 1: If ICE comes to the city of Minneapolis and says,
- 6:06Speaker 1: we believe you have a criminal in custody, will you
- 6:11Speaker 1: release that criminal to us if they have proof that
- 6:16Speaker 1: this individual is a criminal? What is the policy of
- 6:19Speaker 1: the police force at that point.
- 6:21Speaker 3: So there's parts where we are involved and there's parts
- 6:23Speaker 3: where we are not arresting that criminal. We are involved,
- 6:28Speaker 3: and we will work with federal agencies to arrest that criminal. Now,
- 6:34Speaker 3: remember the whole concept of deportation is on the civil side.
- 6:39Speaker 3: But we will work with federal agencies to get a
- 6:43Speaker 3: guy that has done bad dates, murders, carjackings, whatever it
- 6:47Speaker 3: might be. We at the city, however, don't control the jail.
- 6:52Speaker 3: So the whole concept of.
- 6:53Speaker 1: The interest that is that is the Canneban County.
- 6:56Speaker 3: Now he runs the jail. That is the jail. And
- 6:58Speaker 3: then the state, who has provided quite a bit of
- 7:02Speaker 3: information recently about how they actually do work with immigration
- 7:07Speaker 3: and ICE to provide, you know, to you know, not
- 7:11Speaker 3: let murderers back on the street. That's through the state.
- 7:15Speaker 1: Like any situation, I assume you tried diplomacy first, meaning
- 7:21Speaker 1: you know, you knew a new administration was coming in
- 7:24Speaker 1: and all this stuff. What were those conversations like before
- 7:30Speaker 1: this escalated to what it has become today, walk me
- 7:34Speaker 1: through your interactions you had with DHS or with ICE,
- 7:38Speaker 1: or with any part of the federal government before it
- 7:41Speaker 1: got to where what you're having to deal with in
- 7:43Speaker 1: the moment.
- 7:44Speaker 3: With this administration, it was a pretty quick zero to
- 7:47Speaker 3: one hundred, not as far as this operation goes, but
- 7:50Speaker 3: as the general mentality of what they were doing. And look,
- 7:54Speaker 3: you always expect different ideologies and value use with a
- 8:00Speaker 3: new administration, especially a new administration that is of a
- 8:03Speaker 3: different party, but this is something entirely different. Even from
- 8:07Speaker 3: the first Trump administration. We did not see this kind
- 8:11Speaker 3: of conduct to this degree with the first Trump administration.
- 8:15Speaker 3: And I think it was probably twenty or thirty days
- 8:18Speaker 3: or something like that, maybe even less after Trump was
- 8:22Speaker 3: sworn into this term. I got a letter on my
- 8:24Speaker 3: desk from I believe the Office of Management and Budget.
- 8:27Speaker 3: They quite literally said that all grants that were provided
- 8:31Speaker 3: to the City of Minneapolis totally somewhere in the range
- 8:33Speaker 3: of seventy million dollars would be cut off. And the
- 8:38Speaker 3: basic lever that they were trying to pull was, you
- 8:41Speaker 3: will lose this money if you don't get rid of
- 8:45Speaker 3: all diversity work and stop the separation.
- 8:50Speaker 1: Which I want to put up, which federal governments have
- 8:52Speaker 1: tried to do with cities and states for decades. Right
- 8:55Speaker 1: is always the first threat is usually financial.
- 8:58Speaker 3: Right it is. And there's a ton of legal dictum
- 9:06Speaker 3: on this particular issue of how much can you know
- 9:10Speaker 3: the federal government influence or coerce cities based on some
- 9:16Speaker 3: alternate policy that has nothing to do with that right
- 9:20Speaker 3: and so, But they've taken a pretty extreme line on
- 9:23Speaker 3: how they're doing it.
- 9:24Speaker 1: So you now, this wasn't a case of I mean,
- 9:27Speaker 1: have you had a meeting with Christino and said, hey,
- 9:32Speaker 1: what are you trying to truly accomplish here that's in
- 9:37Speaker 1: the interest of public safety. We'd like to help. Have you.
- 9:42Speaker 1: Have you been able to have that conversation with the
- 9:44Speaker 1: Secretary of d J.
- 9:46Speaker 3: I have not had that conversation because the way they're
- 9:49Speaker 3: framing this up, sadly, is not about safety. I don't
- 9:53Speaker 3: even think it's about immigration. I think this is political retribution.
- 9:57Speaker 1: I think you feel like it's all about George Floyd.
- 10:00Speaker 3: I don't know George Floyd. I think it's about Tim Walls.
- 10:05Speaker 3: It's it's you know, the Vice presidential candidate ran against
- 10:09Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and I think there's a I think perhaps
- 10:14Speaker 3: Donald Trump is unhappy that for three elections in a row,
- 10:18Speaker 3: Minnesota did not support his candidacy. I believe that he's
- 10:25Speaker 3: trying to make a point here.
- 10:27Speaker 1: And well, when you look at the data, it's not
- 10:29Speaker 1: like it's not as if Minneapolis stands out compared to Chicago, Denver,
- 10:34Speaker 1: New York. We could go through the cities here. So
- 10:37Speaker 1: it does feel as if you're you, I think you
- 10:40Speaker 1: have said this that you feel as if you're a
- 10:43Speaker 1: petri dish political petritish right now.
- 10:46Speaker 3: You know, it feels a little bit as if there
- 10:48Speaker 3: were multiple things that were occurring in rapid succession that
- 10:52Speaker 3: don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, you
- 10:55Speaker 3: know what I mean. It almost feels like you remember
- 10:58Speaker 3: like post nine to eleven. I remember, you know, you
- 11:01Speaker 3: reporting on that, you know, at nine to eleven, and
- 11:03Speaker 3: then you had going after the Taliban. Then it was
- 11:09Speaker 3: looking at Afghanistan. Suddenly we're in Iraq again, and so
- 11:13Speaker 3: it was these things that, like if you weren't paying
- 11:16Speaker 3: a lot of attention, were seemingly linked, but they weren't
- 11:19Speaker 3: at all, And so we had an issue in our
- 11:23Speaker 3: state around fraud, and look, it's real, it is a
- 11:27Speaker 3: real issue. And then there were these racist attacks on
- 11:33Speaker 3: entire communities, most notably are Somali community, based on that fraud.
- 11:39Speaker 3: And then from there it was let's I believe and
- 11:43Speaker 3: this is not based on personal information. I speculate that
- 11:47Speaker 3: somebody from relatively high up in the Trump administration said,
- 11:50Speaker 3: go to Minneapolis, go to Port a bunch of Somalis,
- 11:53Speaker 3: and whoever gave that directive didn't get the necessary pushback,
- 11:57Speaker 3: and then suddenly you got a bunch of ICE agents.
- 11:59Speaker 3: There are in many apple Is trying to deport Somalis,
- 12:01Speaker 3: only to find out they're from here. They're American citizens,
- 12:06Speaker 3: they got here on a plane, they're here legally.
- 12:09Speaker 1: When we're the first Somalian settled settlements, it was in
- 12:11Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties.
- 12:12Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, I would say, men, we were.
- 12:15Speaker 1: Accepting refugees from a war torn country. This was a country.
- 12:19Speaker 1: So this is what America has done for decades. That's right,
- 12:22Speaker 1: that's refugees from a war torn country. Yeah, they've been
- 12:25Speaker 1: here longer than I've been here. They're very Minneapolis and
- 12:27Speaker 1: at this point, you know, multiple generations they have been.
- 12:31Speaker 3: And so it's it's it's not like there's a location
- 12:36Speaker 3: where you can go to get a bunch of undocumented Somalis.
- 12:39Speaker 3: Those locations don't exist because again, for the most part,
- 12:42Speaker 3: they're citizens.
- 12:44Speaker 1: So basically you have this fraud issue that really has
- 12:48Speaker 1: nothing to do with undocumented.
- 12:50Speaker 3: Immigrants, right, right, it's it's a completely separate issue.
- 12:53Speaker 1: And you know, I mean the irony is whatever fraud
- 12:55Speaker 1: was committed was likely committed by American citizens.
- 12:57Speaker 3: Correct A likely? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I don't breakdown,
- 13:02Speaker 3: but yes, you know, and when somebody commits fraud, you investigate,
- 13:07Speaker 3: you prosecute, you charge, you get a conviction, and yeah,
- 13:12Speaker 3: you put the person in jail as an individual. You
- 13:15Speaker 3: don't hold an entire community accountable. You hold the person
- 13:17Speaker 3: accountable as an individual. It's just a very basic American value,
- 13:21Speaker 3: in law enforcement value, and it's shocking and concerning that
- 13:24Speaker 3: we're getting so far straight from that.
- 13:26Speaker 1: Well I'm old enough to remember when part of the
- 13:28Speaker 1: anti woke mindset was to not was to not try
- 13:33Speaker 1: to attack an entire group of people for one person, right,
- 13:36Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the complaints. Yeah, I
- 13:39Speaker 1: mean that was coming from the right. But day here
- 13:43Speaker 1: we are. Let me ask you about dealing with the
- 13:46Speaker 1: safety of your community. Nine to one one response times
- 13:50Speaker 1: have gotten worse in the last few months. Do you
- 13:55Speaker 1: believe that's directly the result of the chaos that you
- 13:59Speaker 1: believe is creating in your city.
- 14:02Speaker 3: I'm certain that's part of it. With anything law enforcement related,
- 14:06Speaker 3: there's always more than one causal factor. But look, we
- 14:09Speaker 3: got six hundred cops in the city. We have fewer
- 14:11Speaker 3: officers per capita than virtually any major city in the country.
- 14:14Speaker 1: Are you short of cops? I mean and an ideal world,
- 14:17Speaker 1: do you wish you had more? Yes? Yeah, I mean
- 14:20Speaker 1: I've yet to meet a mayor that is not frustrated
- 14:22Speaker 1: by this. I'm pretty friendly with maryel Bowser, mayor of DC,
- 14:26Speaker 1: and she's literally, I swear almost wearing a sign, you know,
- 14:30Speaker 1: call please apply.
- 14:32Speaker 3: You know, I wear the same sign, and I would argue,
- 14:36Speaker 3: I would argue we need them even more. Just on
- 14:38Speaker 3: a per capita basis, we are very low. We hemorrhaged
- 14:42Speaker 3: officers following twenty and we are at the point where
- 14:46Speaker 3: we're netting positive. More and more officers are coming on,
- 14:48Speaker 3: but we don't have enough. Now, juxtapose that six hundred
- 14:52Speaker 3: number versus the three or four thousand or whatever it is.
- 14:55Speaker 3: ICE agents and border control is a massive imbalance here,
- 15:03Speaker 3: and our police officers have got to do the day
- 15:05Speaker 3: to day work of being a cop. And you know,
- 15:09Speaker 3: on top of that, we've got all of these calls
- 15:13Speaker 3: coming in, all of these you know, ICE instigated events
- 15:18Speaker 3: that are taking place that requires some form of our
- 15:21Speaker 3: police officers to do even more work on top.
- 15:24Speaker 1: So what happened? So if somebody calls in and says, hey,
- 15:26Speaker 1: I'm being harassed, I'm a I'm a Minneapolis resident, I'm
- 15:31Speaker 1: an American citizen, and I feel as if I'm being
- 15:35Speaker 1: harassed by these ICE agents. What are your what's your
- 15:39Speaker 1: police force supposed to do? Well?
- 15:41Speaker 3: It all depends on the nature of the call. Of course,
- 15:45Speaker 3: we respond to calls regarding kidnappings, and so if somebody
- 15:49Speaker 3: says my son is getting kidnapped, we go. If if
- 15:55Speaker 3: there is a protest taking place in an ambulance needs
- 16:00Speaker 3: to get in to help somebody, we escort the ambulance in.
- 16:04Speaker 3: If property damages take place, we deal with the property damage.
- 16:07Speaker 3: And yes, we intervene if there is some form of
- 16:13Speaker 3: misconduct or unlawful behavior that is part of our officer's jobs.
- 16:18Speaker 3: And obviously this gets very difficult when you're also trying
- 16:25Speaker 3: to determine whether the conduct that is taking place is
- 16:29Speaker 3: within the roles and responsibilities provided delegated to ICE other agencies,
- 16:36Speaker 3: or if it's outside that scope of a criminal nature.
- 16:41Speaker 3: This is a very tenuous and difficult place for officers
- 16:45Speaker 3: to be.
- 16:45Speaker 1: And let me guess most of your police officers don't
- 16:48Speaker 1: travel with legal counsel.
- 16:49Speaker 3: Now, do they believe it or not? They don't.
- 16:51Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I just so what is I mean?
- 16:57Speaker 1: I get that each circumstance is unique, but you know what,
- 17:02Speaker 1: what advice are your police officers getting and dealing with
- 17:06Speaker 1: these situations.
- 17:08Speaker 3: Their their goal is to keep the peace, their goal
- 17:11Speaker 3: to keep pizza.
- 17:12Speaker 1: De escalate whatever it is. They're just trying to de escalate.
- 17:16Speaker 3: Absolutely, they try to de escalate the situation. They try
- 17:18Speaker 3: to keep the peace. They do not and will not
- 17:21Speaker 3: cooperate with ICE or any federal agency on immigration enforcement work.
- 17:27Speaker 3: That's not our job, that's not what we do. And yeah,
- 17:33Speaker 3: they're trying to keep people from getting hurt or injured.
- 17:38Speaker 3: And the way that ICE is conducting this, I'm telling
- 17:41Speaker 3: you it's I've never seen anything like this.
- 17:44Speaker 1: Do you think this is designed to provoke a response?
- 17:48Speaker 3: Yeah, perhaps, I don't. I mean, look, I don't. I'm
- 17:50Speaker 3: not in the mind of either of these federal agents
- 17:52Speaker 3: nor this administration. I think a lot of what is
- 17:55Speaker 3: happening is designed to create some form of response. I mean,
- 17:59Speaker 3: we don't have that many undocumented immigrants here. What they're
- 18:02Speaker 3: doing is not based on safety. We have partnered with
- 18:05Speaker 3: them based on safety. This seems to me like, you know,
- 18:10Speaker 3: they are trying to whip people up into a frenzy.
- 18:13Speaker 3: And I mean, thankfully and for the vast majority of
- 18:17Speaker 3: people in our city and the tens of thousands of protesters,
- 18:21Speaker 3: they're not taking the bait. They're not countering Donald Trump's
- 18:25Speaker 3: chaos with our own brand of chaos here.
- 18:29Speaker 1: You know.
- 18:29Speaker 3: That's that seems like what they're looking to do. And
- 18:32Speaker 3: they've got fifteen hundred militarized troops that are presently on standby.
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- 20:22Speaker 1: com slash chuck. What legal avenues do you think you
- 20:29Speaker 1: have to sort of at least limit ICE's uh ability
- 20:36Speaker 1: to roam the city. I mean this sort of five
- 20:40Speaker 1: to one ratio right being outnumbered by Ice and Border
- 20:44Speaker 1: patrol versus your local police. That seems excessive. Is there
- 20:48Speaker 1: a court Is there a legal avenue a court order
- 20:50Speaker 1: you could get that says you know, this is this
- 20:53Speaker 1: is outside the bounds of what's necessary, This is an
- 20:56Speaker 1: excessive et cetera. Is there is there any lea avenue here?
- 21:01Speaker 3: There is a legal avenue. I am hopeful that we
- 21:04Speaker 3: will succeed in the litigation that is presently underway. We
- 21:10Speaker 3: have a judge. I think we're working towards a hearing.
- 21:13Speaker 3: Dat I was hoping that it was going to be
- 21:14Speaker 3: this Friday, and I'm optimistic.
- 21:17Speaker 1: And what do you want that judge to do? What's
- 21:19Speaker 1: the specific ask?
- 21:21Speaker 3: This specific? I mean, there are several asks within the
- 21:24Speaker 3: complaint itself, but the basic one is to stop the operation,
- 21:30Speaker 3: appear and simple, yes, to stop the operation that is
- 21:33Speaker 3: presently taking place, which is the huge influx of federal agents.
- 21:37Speaker 3: I mean, look, you know ICE has existed now for decades.
- 21:42Speaker 3: Immigration enforcement exists. We're not talking about like just ICE
- 21:47Speaker 3: doing ICE stuff. We're talking about constitutional violations which have
- 21:53Speaker 3: gone way beyond anything I could imagine it. This is
- 21:55Speaker 3: targeting of Somalia and Latino people.
- 21:58Speaker 1: This is.
- 22:00Speaker 3: I mean, this is actually happening. Do you look Somali?
- 22:03Speaker 3: Do you look Latino dragging people off the street, give
- 22:06Speaker 3: me your passport or else we're detaining you. That is
- 22:08Speaker 3: actually happening, you know, mister May, this is the hardest
- 22:12Speaker 3: thing to convey. I think these days, especially in the
- 22:14Speaker 3: world of deep fakes, nothing you believe, nothing online feels
- 22:19Speaker 3: like it's on the up and up. Obviously we live,
- 22:22Speaker 3: we've been sort of poisoned by these algorithms and all
- 22:25Speaker 3: of that.
- 22:27Speaker 1: I find this to be the hardest thing to convey
- 22:29Speaker 1: to people who are not seeing it firsthand, and I
- 22:32Speaker 1: imagine you feel this frustration as well. There was a
- 22:37Speaker 1: Brooklyn Park police chief when viral yesterday with some comments
- 22:42Speaker 1: he made about what has happened to off duty officers
- 22:45Speaker 1: who just don't happen to look like you and me?
- 22:50Speaker 1: What kind of experiences have you heard on that front?
- 22:54Speaker 1: And if you talk to any of these off duty cops,
- 22:57Speaker 1: have they shared their experiences with ice of you?
- 23:02Speaker 3: Yeah, we've heard countless instances very similar, almost identical to
- 23:07Speaker 3: what you heard from that. I believe it was Brooklyn Park, Yeah,
- 23:12Speaker 3: police chief.
- 23:14Speaker 1: For those of you that are in Brooklyn Park, I
- 23:16Speaker 1: believe that's where Jesse Ventura was mayor if I'm not mistaken.
- 23:19Speaker 3: Back in the day, I often get to who if
- 23:21Speaker 3: it's from Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center, which are right
- 23:23Speaker 3: next to E.
- 23:24Speaker 1: But I do think you were one of them. Was
- 23:26Speaker 1: where Jesse Ventur got to start, right? Yeah? For those
- 23:29Speaker 1: outside of Minnesota keeping score at home, anyway, go ahead, Sorry,
- 23:33Speaker 1: I am all. I am, after all a political Juggie
- 23:36Speaker 1: pot page.
- 23:37Speaker 3: I am impressed. Yes, No, Minnesota has gone a long
- 23:40Speaker 3: a long history of of interesting and fascinating and politicians.
- 23:45Speaker 1: One of my favorite states, you know, because of that.
- 23:48Speaker 1: I love the characters and the personalities and what I
- 23:51Speaker 1: use what Hubert Humphrey once called the politics of joy
- 23:55Speaker 1: that was Minnesota.
- 23:57Speaker 2: In Minneapolis actually not a lot of joy these days.
- 24:00Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, this is the kind of dynamic
- 24:04Speaker 2: that we're hearing about constantly. And apart from, of course,
- 24:07Speaker 2: the unlawfully detaining people of the United States citizens, apart
- 24:13Speaker 2: from the gimme your passport and your identification based on
- 24:16Speaker 2: nothing more than being a part being a person of color.
- 24:19Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen we've seen our own city employees
- 24:22Speaker 2: in city uniforms, by the way, in city vests. You know,
- 24:25Speaker 2: There'll be four public works employees out there filling potholes,
- 24:30Speaker 2: and the three that are brown or black get id
- 24:34Speaker 2: and the one guy that's white. Doesn't mean you can't
- 24:38Speaker 2: do that. Uh, they're filling potholes. This ain't America. The
- 24:47Speaker 2: other thing that we're seeing is just just really dumb,
- 24:51Speaker 2: just dumb anti safety conduct taking place.
- 24:58Speaker 1: You get they were better trained, this might be going better.
- 25:02Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, better trained, a better direction, better moral authority,
- 25:08Speaker 3: some some form of moral compass, you know, the over
- 25:13Speaker 3: on Third Avenue, which is the street that we are
- 25:16Speaker 3: right off right now. It's a pretty significant street. They detained,
- 25:22Speaker 3: They ice detained. Somebody yanked them out of the car,
- 25:25Speaker 3: kept the car in drive. There's nobody in the car.
- 25:27Speaker 3: Car is just rolling down the street with nobody in it.
- 25:31Speaker 3: I mean, that could have hit my parents, you know,
- 25:33Speaker 3: that could have injured somebody. We've got other instances where
- 25:37Speaker 3: they detained the person and then suddenly you got a
- 25:40Speaker 3: stray dog and the dog is just roaming around the city.
- 25:42Speaker 3: It's cold out right now. We got a call in,
- 25:46Speaker 3: you know, the other day from a five year old
- 25:49Speaker 3: kid who was speaking Spanish saying, I don't know where
- 25:53Speaker 3: my parents are. They haven't come home. I mean, this
- 25:56Speaker 3: is the kind of heartbreaking stuff that we're hearing about
- 25:58Speaker 3: right now. And again, it's not about catching criminals. I'm
- 26:02Speaker 3: just sick of this narrative. I'll take the most the
- 26:05Speaker 3: simplest position that I have maybe ever taken as mayor,
- 26:09Speaker 3: which is in Minneapolis. Were anti murder in Minneapolis, were
- 26:12Speaker 3: anti rape. If you want to catch a murder or rapist,
- 26:15Speaker 3: we're on board, let's do it. That's not what this
- 26:22Speaker 3: is about, though.
- 26:24Speaker 1: How concerned. Are you that residents are going to take
- 26:26Speaker 1: matters into their own hands.
- 26:30Speaker 3: I mean, of course that is a concern, But for
- 26:32Speaker 3: the most part, I mean I'm inspired. I have been
- 26:38Speaker 3: watching people go source their local food bank and get
- 26:46Speaker 3: people groceries and escorting people on their walk or their
- 26:50Speaker 3: drive to work. I mean, you have tens of thousands
- 26:53Speaker 3: of people showing the world exactly who Minneapolis is and
- 26:59Speaker 3: what we say stand for and our core convictions and values,
- 27:02Speaker 3: and by the way, people from different ideological perspectives as well,
- 27:06Speaker 3: all saying, you know what, I love our neighbor, we
- 27:09Speaker 3: stand by them, we support our local business or local restaurants.
- 27:13Speaker 3: I mean, it's something that is truly magnificent. I've never
- 27:15Speaker 3: been more proud to be from Minneapolis.
- 27:19Speaker 1: I want to go back to the decision not to
- 27:21Speaker 1: let Ice use city property. I understand the symbolic nature
- 27:25Speaker 1: of that. It hasn't deterred Ice from arguably causing even
- 27:30Speaker 1: more chaos by getting using private property, being disruptive using
- 27:34Speaker 1: federal property. Is that policy workable?
- 27:40Speaker 3: I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean,
- 27:43Speaker 3: we want to make it clear that we will not
- 27:45Speaker 3: cooperate with them and allow them to do this really
- 27:51Speaker 3: unconstitutional conduct with our resources and that includes our parking lots. Look,
- 27:56Speaker 3: is it like some big monumental measure. No, No, I'm
- 28:01Speaker 3: certainly not arguing that. But it was a tool that
- 28:04Speaker 3: we had and it's a tool that we're going to use.
- 28:07Speaker 1: Do you need more resources from the state?
- 28:10Speaker 3: I mean, always we're always asking for re.
- 28:13Speaker 1: Sure on this particular issue. I mean, i mean, look,
- 28:17Speaker 1: this seems like a far fetch question. But and I
- 28:21Speaker 1: and I'll be honest, I've I've not wanted to go
- 28:23Speaker 1: down this road because of the of the implications of it.
- 28:28Speaker 1: But if you thought about asking the governor to call
- 28:31Speaker 1: up the National Guard to help deal with ice in
- 28:33Speaker 1: your community.
- 28:36Speaker 3: We have talked with the governor about calling up the
- 28:39Speaker 3: National Guard and what that would look like and where
- 28:41Speaker 3: they would where and how they would be utilized. Importantly,
- 28:46Speaker 3: the governor has the authority over the National Guard, not
- 28:50Speaker 3: the president.
- 28:51Speaker 1: The governor.
- 28:51Speaker 3: Governor has the authority of when, where, how and if
- 28:54Speaker 3: to implement the National Guards.
- 28:57Speaker 1: He has authority over the National Guard within the state
- 28:59Speaker 1: of Minnesota. Correct, Yes, right, I mean there is a
- 29:02Speaker 1: like he couldn't tell this that a sort of national
- 29:04Speaker 1: guard go into Wisconsin.
- 29:07Speaker 3: Correct, that should have been that distinction.
- 29:08Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, well I just I was just
- 29:10Speaker 1: doing the sort of for the list everybody.
- 29:13Speaker 3: Yeah, and he has called them up to have them
- 29:17Speaker 3: on standby on the number of occasions already. And that's
- 29:22Speaker 3: a very important move one because we've got the additional
- 29:25Speaker 3: resources if in fact we need them. We haven't. But
- 29:29Speaker 3: what it also does is show Governor Wallas has got it.
- 29:32Speaker 3: You know, he's he's on And I think that's a
- 29:36Speaker 3: very important point.
- 29:38Speaker 1: What do you have an understanding what what the subpoena
- 29:41Speaker 1: was about that you received? I know it wasn't you personally,
- 29:44Speaker 1: it was I guess the was it the City of
- 29:46Speaker 1: Minneapolis or the office of the mayor.
- 29:48Speaker 3: That got the office of the mayor?
- 29:51Speaker 1: And what were the record? What was subpoena?
- 29:54Speaker 3: I mean, all sorts of stuff. I think generally these
- 29:58Speaker 3: subpoena processes, especially through grand juria, or supposed to be secret,
- 30:01Speaker 3: but they're clearly trying to make a big public fiasco
- 30:05Speaker 3: out of it. I don't have the thing in front
- 30:06Speaker 3: of me. I mean what I'll say is it should
- 30:09Speaker 3: be deeply concerning to everyone that the Department of Justice
- 30:14Speaker 3: is being weaponized to go after political leaders that disagree
- 30:22Speaker 3: with the president. I mean, the thing in essence that
- 30:27Speaker 3: I would be getting targeted for is doing one of
- 30:31Speaker 3: my most core and critical jobs that I have as mayor,
- 30:34Speaker 3: and that's to speak on behalf of my constituents. It's frivolous.
- 30:41Speaker 3: I almost don't like saying that because it's so obvious.
- 30:46Speaker 3: And then this kind of this is problematic for everybody.
- 30:50Speaker 3: We should all be very well.
- 30:52Speaker 1: Look, I've often said a bit in jest that if
- 30:55Speaker 1: the FBI came knocking on my door and showed up
- 31:00Speaker 1: up with some sort of charge, I wouldn't believe him.
- 31:04Speaker 1: I'd tell them, I don't think you're the FBI. I
- 31:06Speaker 1: don't believe you. I mean, I say they are, you know,
- 31:09Speaker 1: being a little like I said, it's a tad bit
- 31:11Speaker 1: tongue in cheap, but you know, the level of credibility
- 31:15Speaker 1: that the federal law enforcement agencies have with a large
- 31:18Speaker 1: share of the public is quite low right now. I mean,
- 31:23Speaker 1: do you trust the current Department of Justice?
- 31:28Speaker 3: No? No, I mean, and that's a crazy it's not
- 31:31Speaker 3: a crazy thing to say right now, but it should be.
- 31:36Speaker 3: It should be my mentality, my mentality throughout My life
- 31:44Speaker 3: has been of a whole lot of faith and trust
- 31:47Speaker 3: in not just the federal government, but specifically the Department
- 31:51Speaker 3: of Justice, of these kind of legal supposedly quasi independent
- 31:56Speaker 3: entities that are able to enforce and carry out the law.
- 32:01Speaker 3: I mean. And part of that faith stems from the
- 32:03Speaker 3: fact that you've got these long term bureaucrats. Bureaucrats often
- 32:08Speaker 3: have a negative connotation to them, but they are these
- 32:11Speaker 3: people that span beyond administration. They were there for Bush
- 32:15Speaker 3: and Clinton, they were there for Obama.
- 32:18Speaker 1: The careers, know, I wish we wouldn't call them bureaucrats,
- 32:20Speaker 1: say their careers, which frankly, you know, was something that
- 32:26Speaker 1: was actually a civil service reform that goes back if
- 32:30Speaker 1: you I think people got a mini education on it,
- 32:34Speaker 1: if they binged to death by lightning on Netflix recently.
- 32:37Speaker 1: It was sort of the hallmark of the Garfield, Chester
- 32:40Speaker 1: Arthur presidencies. Was this to create this nonpartisan government worker protection.
- 32:48Speaker 3: And there's so much value to that one because you've
- 32:50Speaker 3: got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between administrations
- 32:55Speaker 3: into the conviction and the loyalty is not to some guy,
- 33:03Speaker 3: it's to America. And you talk to so many of
- 33:06Speaker 3: these people and they're like, they're very much sure they vote,
- 33:09Speaker 3: but they are very much postpartisan, I mean, and they
- 33:12Speaker 3: believe in command and control and the order that they bring.
- 33:15Speaker 3: And they also very much believe in the Constitution, and
- 33:19Speaker 3: that so many of these career would you call them careerists,
- 33:25Speaker 3: these professionals, that so many of them have said, that's it,
- 33:30Speaker 3: We've had enough work out, we can't do this anymore. Both,
- 33:33Speaker 3: I give them a lot of credit for, you know,
- 33:35Speaker 3: leaving their job because they're not going to do this
- 33:38Speaker 3: horrible thing. And at the same time, it's really problematic
- 33:41Speaker 3: because what does that leave you with. It leaves you
- 33:44Speaker 3: with I don't know, a loyalists who are just going
- 33:46Speaker 3: to do whatever the president tells you to. Let me.
- 33:48Speaker 1: I know you're busy. I want to get you out
- 33:50Speaker 1: of here in this which is given the experience now
- 33:53Speaker 1: you're feeling of this weaponized federal government, right. I look,
- 33:58Speaker 1: it looks like you've been to targeted. This looks like
- 34:01Speaker 1: it's an attempt to spark A response was a this
- 34:05Speaker 1: was a specific let's go here, there's a blue city
- 34:09Speaker 1: activist we can that won't be popular with centrist you know,
- 34:13Speaker 1: you can see the sort of political design in the
- 34:16Speaker 1: heads of these folks. Do you think people didn't stand
- 34:21Speaker 1: up to Trump enough? Has there been too much appeasement?
- 34:25Speaker 1: Do you think do you have any advice or told
- 34:28Speaker 1: you sos to eddy Democratic leaders when it comes to
- 34:30Speaker 1: Trump that you'd like to express, or do you feel
- 34:33Speaker 1: as if that, Hey, guess what, you know? Failure of
- 34:36Speaker 1: imagination is basically the only sin people have committed when
- 34:39Speaker 1: it comes to Donald Trump.
- 34:45Speaker 3: Failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going
- 34:50Speaker 3: to do the things that he says he's going to do.
- 34:52Speaker 1: Well, We're used to politicians not doing that, right, so
- 34:54Speaker 1: we just assume he's full of it. And the thing is,
- 34:57Speaker 1: he is full of it until he's not full of it.
- 35:00Speaker 3: I mean, some of these horrific things he has told
- 35:02Speaker 3: people that he was going to do them, and you know,
- 35:05Speaker 3: I could probably count myself in with those that should
- 35:09Speaker 3: have believed that he was going to do some of
- 35:12Speaker 3: this crazy stuff, because at least initially back in twenty sixteen,
- 35:15Speaker 3: I kind of shoved it off, like, oh, come on,
- 35:18Speaker 3: that's ridiculous. But now we're in a second term here,
- 35:22Speaker 3: and he's carrying some of it out and it's terrifying
- 35:26Speaker 3: and it's reached a whole new level than anything that
- 35:28Speaker 3: we saw in that first term.
- 35:32Speaker 1: Well, do you think there's any end in sight to
- 35:34Speaker 1: this or is it going to your last Is the
- 35:37Speaker 1: court the sort of the last place you can go.
- 35:41Speaker 3: Well, we are accessing every single channel that we have. Yes,
- 35:45Speaker 3: we are litigating preemptively. We are litigating in response to
- 35:50Speaker 3: what's taking place. I am very optimistic that we're going
- 35:54Speaker 3: to win. And at the same time, we are also
- 35:58Speaker 3: accessing other channels in the federal government in the White
- 36:01Speaker 3: House to try to get this to change, you know,
- 36:03Speaker 3: pushing out to business leaders and CEOs to have them
- 36:06Speaker 3: utilize their connections.
- 36:08Speaker 1: Or it has been bad politics for the Republicans. This
- 36:11Speaker 1: has not been good for them. Just if you just
- 36:13Speaker 1: look at it, it's been bad politics, so one would
- 36:15Speaker 1: assume that they would change. By the way, are you
- 36:18Speaker 1: going to be able to do a real investigation on
- 36:20Speaker 1: whether renee Good was murdered?
- 36:23Speaker 3: We need to do a real investigation. The investigations should
- 36:27Speaker 3: run through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is the
- 36:30Speaker 3: state based agency that has done these investigations on use
- 36:34Speaker 3: of force repeatedly. They've run investigations that have come to
- 36:37Speaker 3: both charging decisions and a lack of charge. This is
- 36:41Speaker 3: not some radical organization. This is largely you know, lawyers
- 36:45Speaker 3: and police officers that are part of this group, and
- 36:50Speaker 3: that's where it needs to go.
- 36:52Speaker 1: Has there been an investigation opened and they just can't
- 36:54Speaker 1: get cooperation or you're waiting to see if you get
- 36:57Speaker 1: cooperation before you can open an investigation.
- 36:59Speaker 3: There, well, the federal government has My understanding is that
- 37:03Speaker 3: they have blocked out the b c A from getting
- 37:08Speaker 3: critical and important evidence that we have allowed them to
- 37:11Speaker 3: run this investigation side by side with the FBI, sure
- 37:15Speaker 3: and the side.
- 37:16Speaker 1: It would have been a normal way to do business
- 37:18Speaker 1: back in the normal way.
- 37:20Speaker 3: Very normal way. I mean it has it has done
- 37:21Speaker 3: that before. That's the way we have operated for uh.
- 37:25Speaker 3: But but and you know, barring that, yeah, I would
- 37:28Speaker 3: like to be see it to do the investigation themselves,
- 37:30Speaker 3: and of course there will be support.
- 37:33Speaker 1: How much of your job is dominated by this current crisis, I.
- 37:37Speaker 3: Mean much of it obviously, But we're you know, we're
- 37:40Speaker 3: going to keep providing important constituent services. We do the
- 37:43Speaker 3: work of the city. You know, city governments were the
- 37:45Speaker 3: ones that don't shut down so we keep rolling. We're
- 37:48Speaker 3: not quitting. We're not going to get intimidated by what's
- 37:51Speaker 3: going on.
- 37:53Speaker 1: Mister Mayor. I appreciate the time. Like I said, I
- 37:55Speaker 1: know you're busy, so when or one hour podcast is
- 38:00Speaker 1: a lot to ask. So I appreciate you giving me
- 38:03Speaker 1: thirty unor to be here with you watching a lot
- 38:06Speaker 1: as a kid, so I've watched me for a long time. Well,
- 38:08Speaker 1: I appreciate you making me feel little. That's awesome. Yeah, thanks,
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