Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / "Don’t Call It Hair Metal: Art in the Excess of ’80s Rock"/Sean Kelly [Episode 132]

Transcript

"Don’t Call It Hair Metal: Art in the Excess of ’80s Rock"/Sean Kelly [Episode 132] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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We're totally I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading Little Hands, It's
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time to run and wrong. We are totally booked. Hey, it's booked
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on rock. This is Eric Senich. Guys, I have laryngitis. Oh
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my god. Follow the suntry sound of my voice. Oh my god.
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I got Broun Guide and nobody got time for it. And I gotta tell
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you my voice is really improved since I had that tea. Yeah, I
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get it. It's kind of fun. I'm gonna keep it short and sweet.
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Thankfully. I interviewed our guest before all of this went down. It's
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Sean Kelly. Sean is the author of Don't Call It hair Metal Art in
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the Excess of Eighties Rock. So hope you enjoy it and look forward to
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getting my voice back for the next episode. All right, we get it,
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we get it. It's funny. Let's get on with the show.
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Hey, Sean, Welcome to the podcast. Eric, thanks so much for
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having me. What an introduction to the book, emotional introduction. Can you
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talk a little bit about that introduction because it ties in with the inspiration behind
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the book as to why you wrote it. Yeah, for sure. Well,
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you know, in the introduction, I talk about how on the day
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of my father's passing, I knew that this was this was something that was
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going to be happening. He had been ill for a while, and I
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I had a song kind of earmarked for the occasion. It was a song
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that I'd been listening to prior that was kind of helping me put you know,
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this inevitable part of life in perspective, right, Uh, mister big
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defying gravity, talking about how you know, we we we slipped this mortal
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coil and you know, kind of go to something hopefully beyond greater. And
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it provided me with a lot of comfort, and it kind of spoke to
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what I felt was the importance of these artists, artists that have often been
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relegated to a place in history of one song or one visual that people have
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in their minds because of an era of MTV exposure or you know, it
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was they had one song that was a hit. But they have this whole
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catalog of art that they've created and they continue to create. And I wanted
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to honor that and honor the intention of these artists who have created the soundtrack
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that's part of the tapestry of my life. What did you find out from
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the people you spoke with for this book about the origins of hair metal?
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When does it really start? When does it begin? Yeah? Well,
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I mean, you know, I kind of refer to as commercial hard rock,
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right, and I mean it kind of started. I mean, it
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depends what you know. You could go back and say it started with Kiss
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or start with Alice Cooper. But for all intents and purposes, what we're
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talking about here this music of the eighties, to me, it was really
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with bands like Lover Boy, bands like All the Nova right, with this
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kind of commercialized approach to having radio friendly song, had crunchy guitars, and
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that was taken to another level when in you know, around nineteen eighty three,
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when you have your deaf Leopards and your twisted Sisters and your quiet riots,
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where they're applying these kind of participatory rock vocal formulas with the crunching guitars
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and the big drums, truncating it into a three minute, thirty second kind
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of format that's digestible for radio audiences, and that kind of dovetails with the
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dawn of MTV, right, and all of a sudden, these bands are
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needing to be visually stimulating and kind of putting these elements together right there.
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So they're they're playing upon the basis of seventies hard rock, but it's become
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edited. It's an edited version of it that's you can fit into radio formats
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and TV formats. I remember just how important Led Zeppelin was to the bands
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that I heard on the radio during that time, bands you saw on MTV
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in the eighties. You write about Zeppelin's impact in the book. Can you
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talk about how their look and their sound impact of the bands in the eighties.
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Well, you know, you pretty much have the template for the look,
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right. You get the four piece, you got the golden main well
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hung singer, you got the you know, the guitar player with the guitar
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down round. That was a sock. That was a sock. You know
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what. I think if you read a Hammer or the Gods, you find
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out what what, what's a sock and what's not. But I wasn't there.
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That's for a separate podcast episode. All together. We'll be absolutely that.
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Yeah, we're not gonna work blue here. We're gonna we're gonna keep
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it keep it up down. Yeah, but you know you have Robert Plant,
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you know the lion maned you know, singer with the wide vocal range,
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kind of the Norse Norse god, right, like you know, like
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the you know, the ultimate kind of front man. Got Jimmy Page with
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the low slung less Paul and kind of dabbling in the occult mysterious start.
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You've got the you know, the big pounding drums of John Bonham, and
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then you've got in John Paul Jones's kind of the hidden secret weapon, right,
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the guy's quiet behind the scenes, but add so much really the Michael
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lam anything, if you will. With what Michael did with his vocals,
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John Paul Jones was doing with his orchestration abilities, you know, and the
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keyboards and the keyboards. You know, he's adding a lot, a lot
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of the stuff we think is Jimmy Page is actually John Paul Jones, right.
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But yeah, so you have this kind of template, but it's a
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much more complex and layered template. Really, there was a lot more light
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and shade that you saw in Zeppelin then you saw in the bands that bore
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their influence later on. You take a look at a band like Kingdom Come
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for example, who came along with the later Kingdom Come really took the heavy
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the riff based element, so what Zeppelin was doing and the kind of histrionic
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vocals and focused on that. And I'll be honest with you, at the
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time, that was far more appealing to me than Zeppelin was. I wanted
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to hear the power of the riffs. I wanted to hear it big.
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I wanted to hear the exploitation of those electric guitars and the great vocals and
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put into a pop song format. And you listen to a song like Get
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It On by Kingdom Come, did it perfectly, I thought, But of
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course I go back and and and I do appreciate, you know, the
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layers of the light and shade of Zeppelin, for sure. It's interesting.
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Kingdom Come was the great of Van Fleet of that time for sure. And
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you know the funny thing about Kingdom Come was it just kind of shows you
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the knife te of pr back then. Like really, if they would have
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just come out and said, yeah, we love Zeppelin, we're making Zeppelin
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risks, like, it wouldn't have even been an issue. Yeah, But
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these guys denied it, like like there were some there were interviews where they
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were flat out kind of denying that they had this influence or at least that
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was how it was spun, and that was where the rub was. Like,
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I mean, people were listening going, come on, dude, that's
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Cashmir you know, that's that's black Dog, Like what are you talking about?
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Embrace it? Embrace it? And I, you know, having spoken,
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I won't give it away. But in the book, you know,
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I talked to somebody who was involved in that recording and it was one hundred
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percent they were. They were going after a Zeppelin thing in the studio,
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you know. I remember they were on the they were on the Monsters of
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Rocks tour with Van Halen in nineteen eighty eight. I would have loved to
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see in that show. I was very jelou. I was close, man,
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I was close, but I couldn't quite get over the border. Yeah.
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Yeah. Kiss is so interesting when talking about the eighties, because here's
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a band who had such a huge influence on eighties bands, yet they found
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themselves following the trends in the eighties as opposed to setting the trends in the
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seventies. Can you talk about Kisses influence from the seventies era and what did
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you think of the non makeup eighties era of Kiss? Well, I mean
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the influences everywhere you talked to anybody who I'd say you talked to ninety percent
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of the guys in those bands, and at least somebody in one of those
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seminal eighties bands was inspired by Kiss Alive. You know, not only the
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look the visuals of the band, like the superhero meets monster meets face alien,
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you know, all that, all that kind of amazing sci fi superhero
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stuff, but also the fact that they were able to capture that live experience
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on that record so perfectly, so iconically, and that was to template for
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so many of the people I talked to in the book, as you know
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from reading it. Um, so yeah, the the influences US spectacle production,
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uh, concise songwriting, uh taking um, power pop and classic seventies
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hard rock influences and and you know best yeah and yeah, there you go,
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like power Ballad exact four power ballads were even called exactly exactly you know,
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but just no, it was connectivity, right, Kiss were the kings
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of connectivity with suburban youth. And what did you think of the eighties era
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Kiss, because I'm a huge fan of that era, to be honest,
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it was my kiss, Like I mean, I you know Animalize when Animalized
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came out, especially, I know I lick it up for sure, but
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Animalize was the record that Heaven's on Fire to me is a near perfect rock
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and roll song, Like, yeah, absolutely incredible. I love that song.
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I loved eighties kiss and I love I know that Paul was struggling,
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like Gene, his interest started to wane as he was looking into film and
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things like that, but he'd bringing guys like Jean Bouvoir into play bass on
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it. When you hear that, you know some of the playing on that,
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like who Wants, who Wants to Be Lonely that he co wrote with
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Paul, It's so great you brought that. I interviewed John he had a
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book out recently and he talked about the days of writing with Paul right on.
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Well, I mean, I'm a big fan of John stud I actually
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played with him a few times. He played with him at Sweden Rock last
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year with Lee Aaron's and at the Heat Festival with Coney Hatch. So I
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got a chance to meet him and from the Plasmatics, Yeah, man,
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like I mean there you go, Like, I mean, there's some diversity
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in hard rock, right like like I say, all those songs uh heaves
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on Fire, lick it Up, even Crazy Nights, I love absolutely.
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And it's funny when you go to England you talk about kiss. Oh yeah,
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that's that's that's the song that blows up. I remember being over there
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on tour with Crash Kelly and Crazy Knights and this is like two thousand and
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three. Crazy Nights comes on in a club, the place ercks, the
9:50
dance floor is full, and yeah, I mean Paul took charge of the
9:56
band. And Paul is an absolutely amazing songwriter, and and you know,
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he's really good at it, taking like those influences, like you know,
10:05
taking the stones or the raspberries, like those power pop riffs and turning him
10:09
into hard rock gems right, And he became the front man of the band
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at that point. Sure man. He he championed and soldiered that band through
10:18
what could have been a very difficult are and you know, for all intensive
10:22
purposes, they weren't the leaders anymore, but many they stood their ground and
10:26
had platinum success throughout that are pretty amazing. Every album had at least one
10:31
big hit single, every single one. If you go through it, yeah,
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go to Wikipedia and look at each album, you'll see, Oh there's
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a lick it up, Heavens on fire, Let's see what we had,
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Hide your Heart, Hide your Heart forever, of course forever, and we're
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missing a few. But yeah, Revenge came out too, and at the
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top of the nineties, always able to just make sure they're they're there,
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you know. And they were kind of the underdogs, which I love too.
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I love kind of rooting for the underdogs. And there was always but
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there was always that like what if they put the makeup back on? What
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if? And they did? Well, it's funny huge. Yeah. When
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I when when the reunion tour came in ninety six, like I had gone
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back and the same as you. I probably had kiss bubblegum cards or something
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late late seventies, right, I could still smell that card the bubbles,
11:18
Yeah, exactly. So I was. I liked them for the superhero and
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then I didn't care about the music. I mean, I think my sisters,
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my older sister's boyfriend was into them or something. I like the Catman,
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you know, I like the the makeup of the I like the pageantry
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of it, right, Yeah, And but all those fans are now that's
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part of why the Kiss is still so huge now because we're all growing up
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and we're listening to them, and now we're saying to our kids and our
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nephews and nieces, you gotta listen to spans. And that's really what you
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know they were. They weren't too fond of when you get to dynasty the
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parents with their kids, and that was kind of like, yeah, we
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don't want this, but those kids are now grown up and further on the
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legacy of kiss. Yeah, that's right. Let's CDC spoke to Mike Frasier
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for the book. He's a Vancouver based producer and recording engineer who has worked
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on many ACDC recordings. What did he have to tell you about their sound,
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that classic ACDC sound. Well, I had the good fortune of actually
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recording with Mike Fraser, so I actually got to use some of the amps
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that you know, Angus and Malcolm had use, you know what I mean,
12:22
Like, I got to actually go in and work with them, and
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you know what he kind of told me was the thing I took away was
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the simplicity of it. The power comes in the parts, in the music
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and in the actual approach to the instrument rather than layers and layers of guitar
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tracks and big ambient drums. It's just a really great sounding snare drum,
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two really great sounding guitars with really great interlocking parts. It's really about performance
12:52
and it's about purity of tone. It's not when you know, when we
12:56
think of ACDC, we think loud and heavy, but really the guitar tones
12:58
a very organic and pure and it comes from the power of the intention and
13:03
the players, you know, and and and just the quality of the parts
13:07
and the riffs. Time and time again, they just crank out these songs
13:11
that are just undeniably catchy. You can't help but just get into them.
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Whether it's Bon Arrow or Brian, they're just instantly just you're in, You're
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inside of that, You're in that pocket, that beat, that whole rhythm
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section, and it swings right like there there's actually a swing and it comes
13:30
it actually comes from fifties rock and roll and the fact that they've had you
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know, they were mentored by their older brothers who you know, who are
13:37
producers and you know, or Vanda and young you know, um. I
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think their older brother was in the the Easy Beats, who had had some
13:45
success in the sixties, you know, So they're coming at it from a
13:48
very traditional base, right, and and they know who they are. They
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know who they are. They don't need to follow a trend. They do
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what they do, and they do it well, and they discipline to play
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that simply is incredible. Yea. You know, take a look at Cliff
14:03
Williams all night. He's just keeping it, laying it down. But every
14:09
once in a while a note moves underneath a chord in a perfect way,
14:11
and it elevates the whole thing because he has a discipline to listen to what's
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happening around him. Right, Yep, he's not It's not about it's not
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about being an individual star. It's about knowing your role within this. You
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know, played to the song, played to the song. Yeah, you
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said you worked with Mike Frasier. We should mention your musical background. When
14:33
did you become a musician. What are some of the bands you've been in?
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The band you're in now? Should let people know about that? Yeah,
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well, you know it's I'm getting up there. So it's a bit
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of a long story, but you know, I got into music. I
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started playing Um, I was about thirteen and not long after that, as
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soon as I can play three chords, I was getting a band together.
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I wanted I had a goal even when I when I first heard Twisted Sister,
14:56
I wanted to be in a band. I wanted to put a band
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together, and I wanted to get out there and do what they were doing.
15:01
I want to do a Twisted Sister. We're doing yet Riot Motley Crue.
15:05
I wanted to make records, go perform. So I started playing in
15:09
clubs very young and playing with older musicians. And from there I had an
15:15
eye to moving to a bigger city. You know, I was going to
15:16
move to drop out of high school, moved LA when I was you know,
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were you originally from from from North Bay, Ontario, Canada? Yeah,
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so a small town, smallish town, and uh, you know I
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wanted to move, and you know I had I had parents who were smart,
15:31
and I said, well, look at you know, why don't you
15:33
take out a student loan, go to go to a big city and you
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know you can go study music and you know you get better at what you
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do, and you know that like basically tricked me into getting an education.
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So I went. I ended up studying classical guitar at the University of Toronto,
15:45
which got me Yeah yeah, and did that and that was great.
15:48
And when I was there, I actually got a chance to work with Jamie
15:52
Stewart from the Cult, when I was like a oh yeah, yeah,
15:54
he produced my I put a band together soon that got to Toronto and he
15:58
saw us play at the Gas Works. I'll never forget. I was where
16:00
a Cult shirt and he comes up. I went, is it this easy?
16:03
You just moved to a big city and you meet the guys that are
16:06
on your shirt. Wow, Yeah, that's awesome. What a band.
16:10
It's so funny. I just received a digitized version of the cassette that he
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produced. The singer from that band called Obscured. It was a good name.
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We remained pretty Obscured for a long time. But he actually just sent
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me and I was just listening to and I just actually forwarded it onto Jamie
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because we had been in touch, and he said, hey, man,
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yeah, yeah, thought first recording we did. Anyway. From then on,
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I played in a number of bands. I worked with a guy named
16:36
Dale Martindale from Me which is in Vogue sixty nine Duster. We put out
16:40
some independent stuff and from there I met a guy named Chad Richardson. That
16:44
was my first record deal with a Quarious Records. Went on tour that but
16:49
it all kind of led to me forming my own band, Crash Kelly.
16:53
And Crash Kelly was a band that at this point it was two thous I
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thought my career, I had my shot. You know, hair, the
17:02
hard rock that I love seemed to be gone. I said, I'm just
17:04
gonna make the record I want to make anyway, because who cares. I
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went, I went to teachers college, became a teacher. I said,
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you know what, I've got a job. I'm a teacher. I'll just
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I'll just make this little record for fun. And it was kind of a
17:15
the seventies glam meets early eighties sunset script. That was what Crash Kelly was
17:21
all about. Cool and that right that that was when things started to pop.
17:25
Go figure, the minute you start doing something that you love and it's
17:27
authentic to yourself, that's when then good things started happening. So that was
17:32
a good lesson and man, currently, you know, I played with Nelly
17:37
for TATO for ten years, which was an amazing experience. That's awesome.
17:40
Yeah, Like I mean, that's a tour on tour in the Stuart of
17:44
the World. Yeah, I played in the studio, toured the world whe
17:45
They're had an amazing, amazing experience that I can't even begin to describe.
17:49
But you know, I currently played with Lee Aaron. I played with bank
17:52
called Cony Hatch. I played with Gilby Clark from Guns and Roses who produced
17:56
the Crash Kelly Records. I was in Helix, worked Honeymoon Sweeps. Yeah
18:00
wow, that's yeah. I've been very blessed, man. I've had a
18:04
band called four by Fate with Todd Haworth and John Oh yeah, yeah,
18:08
Howland from Wasp and you know, like I I've had a very very fortunate
18:14
career. I'm currently in the Toronto production of Rock of Ages, which celebrates
18:18
all this music and yeah, yeah, and it's it's amazing. I just
18:22
got off the Monsters of Rock Cruise. Actually last week I was in Haiti
18:25
and Dominican Republic and you know, I'm playing with Winger and oh you were
18:27
there. Oh that's so cool man. Yeah, Lear Learn played, We
18:30
did two sets on the boat and yeah, that's awesome. Booked on Ron
18:36
podcast will return after this. Let's talk about my band Van Halen because you
18:41
write about, Yes van Halen's impact to those those of us who have studied
18:48
this band obsessively over the years, Yeah, we know there's there's some serious
18:52
musical sophistication here, but there are those every now and then you'll come across
18:57
somebody who just kind of saw there they're a hair band. I'm like,
19:00
oh, man, you feel my head exploding. I mean, Eddie's the
19:04
guy who has received the most universal praise, But can you talk about the
19:07
band as a whole, particularly the Dave years, and just how good that
19:11
band was musically. David Lee Roth is a walking art installation. He is
19:17
American music personified. He has such a vast knowledge of vaudeville, of jazz,
19:26
of country, R and B. He has the references, and he's
19:29
got this brain. The snazis are firing so quickly. It's genius stuff.
19:34
In fact, to the point where when people criticize his modern performances, I
19:38
get it. He's not singing the melodies. He doesn't care. I think
19:44
he's looking for things. He's looking for the next thing. I love.
19:47
David Lee Roth and that band were like conquering vikings on stage, like it
19:53
was sure sometimes there was sloppy. Sometimes it was loud, but I think
19:59
it like a Jackson Pollock painting. They were just spraying and praying, like
20:03
I mean, and in that intention there are moments of some of the most
20:10
beautiful American musical art ever created. I mean, what Eddie did is it's
20:18
really hard to overstate his influence on rock and roll and how it changed the
20:23
way people played guitar. I mean, it sounds obvious to even say it,
20:26
right, but you talk about the classical you took classical music. There's
20:32
a classical influence and a lot of Eddie's playing Randy Rhodes as well about well,
20:38
you know what's funny with with a guy like Eddie, Eddie really kind
20:41
of comes from the same train of thought. I believe that like an ACDC
20:47
comes from. It's actually not complicated elements, but the elements like, sure,
20:52
there's some classical influence you listen to eruption to the finger tapping stuff,
20:56
and but really he probably took the element said he liked about classical music and
21:03
then took that one little chunk and put it together with the hard rocky like
21:07
and just made this incredibly digestible, you know, piece of art, like
21:12
I mean it's it's amazing. And yeah, and Randy, Randy I think
21:17
was the more disciplined applicator of classical influence for sure. You know, you
21:22
listen to Diary of a Madman. You know that's a Leo Brauer classical guitari
21:26
too, Like you know, like and Revelation Mother, all that stuff had
21:32
maybe a more overt classical influence. But yeah, I mean it's there and
21:37
both of them, all right. Kevin Dubrower, I remember interviewing him way
21:41
back, maybe twenty years ago. Quiet Riot was coming through playing in Hartford,
21:45
Connecticut. Yeah, and he said that he that Randy would have done
21:49
an all classical album that would have been in his near future. Well,
21:53
you know what, I believe that, and I know that talking. You
21:57
know, I think Rudy Sarz was mentioned, and I'm occasions like this was
22:00
something he was looking to pursue. He was taking guitar lessons in every town
22:03
they'd stop at, but he was so good he'd ended up giving the teacher
22:07
a guitar lesson. You know. It was, yeah, it was there.
22:10
It's funny. I actually recorded a classical guitar album that did quite well
22:14
here in Canada. And I remember being up at the office at Universal Music
22:18
when we're talking about selections, because the idea was, they're gonna have a
22:21
rock guy played classical guitar, right. I was going to be the rocker
22:25
doing the kind of the greatest hits of classical guitar. Right. It's called
22:27
the number one classical guitar album. Not because I think I'm the number one
22:30
classical guitar it's not even I'm not even the best classical guitarist on my streets.
22:33
But but yeah, it was a series at Universal had of kind of
22:38
the most popular pieces, so I had an opportunity to do that. I
22:41
said I'd like to record d by Randy Rhodes. And the classical guys are
22:47
going, what are you talking about? That's it, says Ozzy Osbourne.
22:49
Here I go. Yeah, I said, more kids played classical guitar because
22:52
of that song than any of these other pieces. I guarantee you absolutely.
22:56
And I fought tooth and nail because you know, Floss cool music. It's
23:00
all in the public domain, but we had to pay publishing. You know,
23:03
you had to play mechanical royalties on the dep But I'm glad I put
23:06
that on because it. Randy was such an influence on me, and it
23:08
was a way to pay respect to him. And I don't think I played
23:12
it anywhere near as beautifully as he played it, but it was an honor
23:15
to be able to do that. And there's a real interesting part of your
23:18
book that gets into the transition that has to do with Randy and Ozzie Osbourne
23:25
and Black Sabbath and the end of Sabbath and how Van Helen begins and influences
23:30
Randy. There's a quote, I'll read the quote from the book. It
23:32
says, it's interesting to look at the role Van Halen played in creating the
23:34
opportunity for Randy Rhodes to finally find his own voice an ultimate place in rock
23:41
history. Can you talk about this and how it really starts when Van Halen
23:45
opens for a Black Sabbath with Ozzy Osbourne on its last legs and Ozzie then
23:52
starts a solo career and who's his guitarist, Randy Rhodes. Right, Yeah,
23:56
Well, I mean, you know, you could you could positive theory
24:00
that, you know, having a young, hungry van Halen going out and
24:04
absolutely mopping the stage with a drug adult, exhausted Black Sabbath, night after
24:11
night after night. I don't know if it was that extreme, but certainly
24:15
reports seemed to be that that was the case. Van Halen just came out
24:18
of the gates, absolutely crushing them, and you know that could have been.
24:22
You know, it wasn't soon after that that Auzzy exited the band,
24:26
was fired from the band, found himself in La looking for a guitar player
24:32
to kind of pick up the pieces. And you know, really Randy Rhodes,
24:37
that meeting of those two minds. It's interesting. A lot of people
24:41
say, you know, Randy saved Ozzy, but Rudy makes a good Rudy
24:45
Sarzo told me something very interesting. How you know Ozzie also saved Randy if
24:49
you listened to or not saved Randy, but brought things out of Randy that
24:53
weren't happening before. If you listened to the two Quiet Riot albums that were
24:57
only released in Japan prior. We do not hear the same Randy Rhodes that
25:02
we hear on Blizzard of Oz. Yeah, I need to hear those.
25:06
I don't know, I don't know if I've ever heard any Quiet Riot with
25:10
Randy Rhodes on it. It's out there, easy to say, it's out
25:12
there to find. In fact, I scored the documentary. I scored a
25:17
good chunk of that Randy Rhodes Guitar Icon documentary. Yeah that's out Yeah,
25:22
And actually I scored the entire documentary that a lot of that came from.
25:27
There was a documentary called Randy Rhodes The Quiet Riot years um. That was
25:34
shot film, We did, the score, mixed, came out on DVD
25:37
with with Ron Sobel's Coffee Book, but then there were legal problems so that
25:42
got shut down. But years later a lot of that footage ended up in
25:45
this new documentary that's been released and is out now, and a lot of
25:49
my original score remains in there. And I actually went in and not re
25:56
recorded those Quiet Riot songs, but reference him and did sound alike. And
26:00
sound likes is a process of it's a legal process you go through and you
26:03
kind of notate with a lawyer all the changes you've made to make a different
26:07
But if you look at some of that footage, a Quiet Riot play and
26:10
that's meet in the studio playing along. So I know that stuff quite well,
26:15
but I will tell you this, it is not magical stuff. It's
26:18
pretty pedestrian, and I think most people would say those first two Quiet Riot
26:21
records tend to be a little bit on the pedestrian side. There's some good
26:25
stuff, for sure, but it's not magic. It's what certainly not as
26:29
good as a Quiet Riot that came after, and definitely not as good as
26:32
what he did with Aussie. And that's what Rudy was kind of intimating to
26:37
me that Aussie gave him the platform to be the real Randy Rhodes, you
26:42
know what I mean. So as much as Randy kind of was patient with
26:45
Aussie and helped him craft the melodies and and and the things that you know,
26:52
we'd come to hear on that first record along with Bob Daisley and Lee
26:55
kurz Lake, who never get enough credit for their Yeah, they had literally
26:59
removed moved from the albums. Yeah, yeah, like sad, sad stuff,
27:03
but yeah, it was. It was definitely this kind of symbiotic relationship
27:07
that Ozzie and Randy had that Rudy kind of articulated to me, even though
27:10
he wasn't there with the recording, he just as somebody who knew Randy very
27:14
well. But I thought that was a very interesting approach. Just to wrap
27:17
up on Randy. You see, Randy's greatest gift to Ozzy was his ability
27:22
to translate the try tone inspired heavy metal rifts of Sabbath and apply a sonic
27:26
modernity and accessibility to them. So for the non musician like myself, this
27:32
is interesting if you can explain like it's just like a blend of light and
27:36
dark. It's a yeah, well, the try tone is an interval in
27:40
music. You know, if you listen to the beginning of Black Sabbath Bom
27:42
Bom bom, it's a it's it's something that we'd come to here, as
27:48
they used to call it, u the the oblow and music of the devil
27:51
in the music. It was actually forbidden by the Catholic Church because it stirred
27:55
so much emotion, this interval that but although Block used a lot of a
27:59
lot of classical composers used it. But um that kind of or the being
28:03
a symptom of the universe, dunk gun gun gun gun guh that that's a
28:07
try tone. But when Black Sabbath did it, it sounded big and dark
28:12
and gothic and sludgy, right, But Randy had an edge and a clarity
28:17
to his playing. So when those kypes of riffs came in, like Believer,
28:22
for example, it sounded modern, it sounded fresh, it sounded accessible,
28:26
and it was also balanced with songs on the album like Crazy Train right,
28:30
like that had pop elements, right, power pop elements. Really had
28:36
it so in there. Yeah, Like basically Randy was able to also visually
28:42
right. I mean, the guy was a good looking guy, had that
28:45
kind of California vibe. The whole thing just felt right. It felt a
28:49
little shinier to me anyway, And I think to many people and brought,
28:53
you know, help bring that stuff to the masses. Yeah. Interesting that
28:59
classic image that's on the cover of the live album with Randy on Ozzie's shoulders.
29:03
Incredible. Yeah, you spoke with so many great musicians for this book.
29:07
Chapter three you get into their inspirations and how they applied it to their
29:10
own band. Paul Gilbert of Mister Big, Ricky Rocket of Poison, Vivian
29:15
Campbell of def Leppard, Gilby Clark, Guns N' Roses, Rick Emmett of
29:18
Triumph, Nice Stockins, George Lynch, d Snyder, Mark Slaughter. The
29:23
list goes on some real interesting responses. Now, Mark Slaughters. His comments
29:27
are interesting, similar to Kip Winger with his classical skills. He put out
29:33
a classical album. Mark Slaughter talks about you're talking about never judge a book
29:37
by its cover, his jazz influence because he was in a jazz band.
29:41
I think he said, yeah, in high school, like he lived in
29:45
Vegas, and in Vegas obviously there were many great musicians who are coming in
29:49
and out of town to play at all the casinos, right, And I
29:52
think he speaks about in the book about how some of these players would actually
29:56
come and sit in and do like clinics and workshop with his high school band
30:00
or his junior high concert band. So Mark was having all this experience.
30:04
I think he was in the barber shop, like, I mean, he
30:07
had these really kind of interesting straight musical experiences, but he loved music.
30:12
Mark identified as a musician from a very early age, and I think that
30:18
really helped him. Like when he first came to prominence in the Vinny Vincent
30:22
Invasion, He's coming out as a singer, but Mark's a great guitar player,
30:26
and he was said, you know when he was doing the Vinnie Vincent
30:27
thing, It's like, oh wow, I don't know what to do with
30:30
my hands. I usually play guitar. I gotta gotta be a front man.
30:33
But music is music is music is music. You adapt and you just
30:37
kind of do, you know, you figure it out. I think he
30:38
learned how to be a frontman on an arena tour open up for Iron Maiden
30:42
or something, you know, like that's pretty incredible, pretty cool man.
30:45
And Kip Wing or that classical album nominated for a Grammy. Yeah, man,
30:51
I met Kip. I actually just just talked with him very briefly at
30:55
the Monster Rock thing. But I met him years ago when I was in
30:56
Helix. We played a festival called Rock Home on tuls Yeah, yeah,
31:00
yeah, and uh and Kip was the MC and he in a nice guy,
31:06
right, very nice guy and incredibly intelligent man. And he interviewed us
31:11
for a Q and A and then after he said, hey man, you
31:14
know he said he studied Glasgow. You know, I think he asked me
31:17
what's a neopolitan chord? Like he was kind of testing me on theory,
31:19
and I was able to Thank god, I was able to answer that.
31:22
I couldn't answer any theory questions. I don't remember much from university. I
31:25
remember that, and so we just started talking and I remember he actually emailed
31:27
me a couple of times said, hey man, check this out. I'm
31:30
working on a ballet, working like you don't set me some music. Incredible
31:33
talent and watching Winger on the cruise even this time. Wow, those guys
31:38
were all accomplished. I mean, Winger Rod Morgenstey was in the Dixie dregs
31:42
for crying out loud, you know what I mean, Like I mean talk
31:45
about musical jobs. So yeah, it's it's just good to see them doing
31:48
so well now because they had to go through that era that all those bands
31:52
had to go through, and some of them didn't come out unfortunately, some
31:56
of them didn't come out alive. I mean, Jennie lane Is, I
32:00
just think that guy was so talented as a songwriter, and it's so sad
32:02
because he just had so much, at least from the from all accounts people
32:07
that knew him, he just couldn't get past that being on top and then
32:12
just you know, crashing and burning because in Nirvana and then just not being
32:15
able to embrace that or or you know, the cherry pie thing. He
32:19
just the cherry piet wrote it like in one night they said we need a
32:22
love in thenlevator type song here you go, and then the whole album is
32:27
called Cherry Pie was to be called something else, Uncle Tom's Cab or whatever.
32:31
He just regretted that Ever since. I think it's tough because they were
32:37
right. You know, they're kind of the apex of the era, right.
32:39
It's a commercial peak. But it's also that's when the roller coaster starts
32:43
to go downhill, right, and that makes you a target for derision,
32:46
right, Like I mean, the washed out video with the girl and the
32:51
skinpy clothes and the fire hose and the cherry Pie and you end, all
32:55
that stuff unfortunately becomes uh, you know, the target and and what a
33:00
shame because really that album is a masterpiece of power pop songwriting. He was
33:07
a he was a very very talented man, a great singer. But you
33:13
know, also dovetailing with that were the excesses of the road and and and
33:19
and all those lies that so many people me included to some degree. You
33:23
know, you buy into it right when you're out there. You think there's
33:27
you're entitled to something, or you know, this is the way we're gonna
33:29
be, you know, I thank god, I didn't really have a constitution
33:31
for it, but you know, it's it's out there, you know,
33:35
those temptations, and some people it claims them. And often, I mean,
33:38
no one becomes an artist because they're so secure in themselves that they you
33:43
know, they they don't feel the need to get up and scream in front
33:45
of ten thousand people and hope that they love them, you know, and
33:49
right right like he's like, this is what we do, right, I
33:51
think there's to some degree, to some degree, but yeah, what it
33:54
was a big loss. And he was a talent and I talk about him
33:58
in the book because to me, with that first Warrant record, the magic
34:01
was how he could take the suburban experience, like I mean, it's just
34:07
something like Heaven. I play Heaven every night in Rock of Ages, we
34:10
play Heaven as a medley with more than words and to be with you,
34:14
you know, you know, you listen to that song and you know it
34:19
connects. You know, there's a color deep inside her eyes, like a
34:22
blue suburban sky like and something as simple as that it is, it's and
34:28
connects with a young person, you know, like you know, I didn't
34:30
think I could be a superhero, but maybe I could be. I didn't
34:34
know what a down boy was, but it sounded like it was just a
34:36
bunch of dudes hanging out. I can connect with that. Maybe a girl.
34:38
You know, these guys weren't the winners. They were usually the losers
34:42
in the song they have thirty two pennies and a ragu Jarlie. That's a
34:45
great one too, Yeah, good, good, clever song, right right,
34:50
but like it's kind of like that classic thing ninety eight percent of songs,
34:53
but love. They found a new take on it. I thought it
34:55
was I thought they were great. And Janey was the massive towel in the
35:00
band, Yep, down Boys, big talk sometimes she cries yeah. And
35:04
and cherry Pie going back to that one blind Faith but well, I'll tell
35:09
Yellow up album that that kind of got ignored. It was getting air player,
35:14
I remember at the time, just as that air was starting to fade
35:16
out in Pearl Jam and n Violence, coming in was Doggy Talk with Machine
35:21
Gun the Bitter Pill Hole in the Wall, which is a phenomenal song.
35:25
It's just um, it's just too bad because yeah, it's just there was
35:30
some real talent there. That's the time the tides a turn and it's hard
35:35
to change. And by that point though, I mean, even the way
35:37
the guitar was touched was changing, with Kurt Cobain coming along and Kim Theo
35:42
from Soundard, it was just time for a new flavor. So anything,
35:45
he even had a wide vibrato. And it's too bad because up to that
35:47
point, Mike Slammer had been the session guy. He'd been the guy who
35:51
was playing most of the guitars. It wasn't necessarily the two guys in the
35:53
band that reading about that. Yeah, and on on the big single,
35:59
it's cc to Bill playing the solo like I mean, you know, another
36:01
guy who gets who gets maligned. But but on Doggie Dog from what I
36:07
understand, it was Eric and Joy and they played their asses off on that
36:10
record and they sound incredible on it. And it's too bad. But by
36:15
that point the tides of turn and people wanted something fresh and a palate cleanser
36:20
booked on Rod podcast will return after this. How can we not talk about
36:24
Motley Crue? Surprising quote from Alan Niven, who worked with a bandy said
36:29
Motley Crue are nothing like a visionary. Their knockoff of old Alice Cooper.
36:32
How do you see Motley Crue in terms of their role in eighties metal.
36:37
Well, it's funny because I think, you know, we grow up with
36:40
our perceptions. My perceptions are based on reading magazines, listening to music,
36:46
and my emotional connection with both those things, right, watching videos, seeing
36:51
concerts. Alan Niven's connection is a more tangible one. He was in there
36:54
working and coming from along story to history in the music business. Like you
37:00
know, he'd already had quite a bit of experience, so it was interesting
37:04
to hear him say that. But I guess he's coming at it from you
37:08
know, being their firsthand for the Alice Coopers, you know, I mean,
37:12
like like seeing that thing happen in real time, right, But for
37:15
me, Motley Crue was that wasp was that, you know, that was
37:19
the real time my real time exposure to shocking visuals, to being scared while
37:24
I listened to something while also loving it. Right, Like, So,
37:29
by the way, was the manager of Guns and Roses, Guns and Roses
37:31
yeah, and Great White Yeah, and producer of Great White too. Talented
37:36
man, brilliant man like talking to him and and somebody. I like that
37:39
because he challenged me. I liked that being challenged by the person I'm interviewing,
37:44
you know, And he did that on a couple of occasions in the
37:45
books. But yeah, like I mean too Fast for Love, I mean
37:50
talk about coming out Like I mean new wave was the thing in La at
37:53
that time, right, it was all about the knack and the cars,
37:57
like it was not about anything that remotely resembled. Yes, but Nikki was
38:05
sticking to his guns, no pun intended. Right, He had this vision
38:08
for the band that kind of married uh the sweet and the rat and raspberries
38:13
and uh with and kiss with with a punk attitude, right with sex pistols
38:20
um and had the right combination of people. You have Tommy Leave comes from
38:24
like marching band drum rutiments. All that stuff, the twirling of the sticks
38:29
and at the snare drum stuff and the cowbell come from him being in a
38:35
marching band and learning all those tricks. He applies that and actually ends up
38:38
creating the Sunset Strip drums sound as far as I'm concerned, Ye, that
38:42
Hollywood shuffle, that feel. I love his drumming, me too, me
38:45
too. And then you have Mick Mars, the Journeyman. Actually, you
38:50
know that we've all heard about the controversy let's get to it. Yeah,
38:54
you listen and you talked to anybody who's toured Mody Crew, talked to Joe
38:58
Satrianni. I've read Joe Satrianne. You read Wasn't the best guitar Tony ever
39:00
heard of? Was Mick Bars massive? Because Mick had to be big in
39:05
those clubs. He had to fill the sound. He developed that and it's
39:08
all bone tone, it's in his fingers, it's in his approach. I
39:12
mean, he's kind of like the Bastard Child and Mick Ronson from Bowie's Band
39:16
and uh, you know, forget what his name is, kath Now the
39:20
guitarist, and Bill Nelson from Bbop the Lock, Yes, Quayne Allman like
39:23
you know, playing slide guitar from hell like I mean, Mick is incredible
39:29
And if you listened to like what he actually did on Too Fast for Love,
39:32
He doubled all those solos. So it's this massive sick. Is it
39:37
always perfect? Hell? No, But it's got field, it's got soul.
39:39
I mean him and him and Tommy are the two musical absolute lines of
39:43
that band. And I don't is it even possible that they wanted him out
39:46
since nineteen eighty four. How the hell can that even be possible. I've
39:50
heard that. I think Bob Daisley mentioned something like that in his brain.
39:53
I don't want to don't quote me on that, but I think he does.
39:55
And he talks about, you know, they wanted to get like Jake
39:58
in air or something, and then you know, but yeah, j Lee.
40:02
But you gotta remember too, these guys were all hanging out. It
40:07
was a small circle like Alan really in the book he talks about, you
40:10
know, Michael Wigner, the famous producer, Bobby Blotzer, the Great White
40:15
guys. They're all living in Rodondo Beach close to each other, right,
40:19
Like, I mean, they're all these guys are and mc mars are all
40:22
close, and I know that. For example, I talked to George and
40:25
Warren to Martini. George Lynch and Warren to Martine. At one point,
40:29
those guys just went across the halls and switch started playing each other's bands.
40:32
George went over and playing Rat and Warren went over and playing Dockin for a
40:36
week and then they went back to their bands. Like there's all sorts of
40:39
craziest you know what's funny. I had a great chat with Chris Holmes from
40:45
lot on this Monsters Rock legendary Chris Holmes. Yeah, and then and we
40:50
were watching George Lynch. He goes shot, come on, go watch Lynch.
40:52
He grew up like they know each other from the seventies. Like these
40:57
guys were all on the scene. Eddie Van Hale, Chris Lent, Eddie
41:01
his I've been as destroyer or I've been as explorer. That's the famous story
41:07
the shark guitar. Yeah, yeah, man, Don Don Dokin was something
41:13
about fixing uh after a Van Hilen show. Eddie was the truck. There
41:16
was a flat tire on their van and Don went out there to help help
41:21
change the tire. Yeah, all those stories from back in the day.
41:23
But yeah, yeah. And the thing to remember too with Mick Marzo,
41:27
he's old. He's older than the rest of the guys in the band,
41:29
so he was always like those guys were the crazy dudes. I didn't do
41:31
all that crazy shit. I was. I was at home, and I
41:35
think there was always a little bit of a not a rift, but he
41:37
was just he wasn't. He wasn't with those guys in terms of that party
41:42
lifestyle. But I just still can't They always spoke so highly of them,
41:45
it just seems to be so strange. Now, well, here's here's my
41:47
question on this now, because you said in the book that if you were
41:50
to take one of the four members away from this band, everything dies on
41:53
the Hollywood and Vine. So this was the book. He wrote it before
41:57
all this stuff went down. They have John Five as a artist. What
42:00
happens from here on out? Listen man, John Five is a remarkable musician,
42:06
an absolutely incredible musician. I've got nothing but respect for him. But
42:10
I also have no interest in a Motley Crue without mc mars yea, and
42:15
and you know what, even with the Karab stuff, I actually love that
42:19
Karab record. I love it. I love It's a beautiful record. Sure
42:23
they have called it Motley Crewe. I don't know, because, honest to
42:27
God, Vince Neil he's not the technical the most technically gifted vocalist in the
42:31
world. We know that. But the sound and even Nikki back in the
42:36
day, I don't know how much. I don't know if he played everything
42:38
on Too Fast Beloved, but it showed at the devil if you listen to
42:42
the isolated bass tracks. We're not talking about virtuoso at work here, like
42:45
I'm listen but together the slop with the tight, the musicianship of Lean Mars,
42:53
the vision I'm really Nikki six. It's not about being a bass player.
42:57
It's about being a visionary and seeing it through and that and a lyricist
43:00
and a songwriter, right like I mean that those are his gifts. Yeah,
43:04
you know, and being a great bass player doesn't really matter in that
43:07
context. You know, you got Mick Mars, He's covering all the bases.
43:10
You're good, you know. Yeah, I'm just not that interest.
43:16
Who knows, maybe they'll come up there in the studio with Bob Rock right
43:20
now, maybe they'll come up with something mind blowing, and I hope they
43:22
do because the world needs more mind blowing rock. But at that time,
43:28
it was those four personalities that made that happen, and I don't think it
43:31
could have been anybody else. Yeah, it's interesting to see what happens.
43:36
Chapter six is interesting. Covers the years nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty four.
43:39
You're right about this in the book. I remember this period so well.
43:43
It's like eleven or twelve, like it was yesterday. This is when
43:45
metal crosses over and becomes mainstream, and it's Quiet Riot who becomes the breakthrough
43:50
band thanks to the number five single come on Field the Noise the album Metal
43:53
Health hits number one. Talk about record producer Spencer Proffer how he plays a
44:00
role in getting the band to record this song because they did not want to
44:04
record it. Correct. Yeah, for all accounts that they did not want
44:08
to do this song. It was kind of foisted upon them. But Crawford
44:13
had this idea of that song being a vehicle into this concept of participatory rock.
44:19
Tom bojer and Nothing but a Good Time that that great oral history of
44:23
Have you read that? Yes? I mean it was tom bojer And and
44:27
sorry yea, yeah, I'll look it up while you yeah, continue your
44:31
thought. Yeah, let's find it. But but you know, they they
44:35
talked to Spencer in that book and and and he talks about having this concept
44:38
right and needing a band who could deliver it. And you know and du
44:42
Brow, Kevin Dubrow, you know, Quiet Ride, a band that's out
44:45
there struggling on the scene. He has a voice like Naughty Holder from Slade.
44:50
He can sing it and and you know the bartering, Hey, listen,
44:53
I'll give you a studio time we'll do it. We'll do a production
44:55
deal. You can record some of your song, but yeah, you have
44:58
to record this song. And it felt like, by all accounts, a
45:00
throwaway for the other guys. They're like, yeah, sure, let's bang
45:04
out this tune and then we get to do our own stuff. But man's
45:07
what it did. Yeah, Tom Bajur and Richard Richard bean Stock, Yeah,
45:13
yeah, yeah, sorry Richard, Sorry, I escape me brilliant book.
45:16
Yeah. Surprisingly, bands like Quiet Ride and Twisted Sister, who had
45:20
the huge hit We're Not Going to Take It didn't extend a run into the
45:22
late eighties. Motley Crue did. They extended it. But that second half
45:27
of the decade is interesting because we see some new bands take over the top
45:30
of the charts. And you cite the year nineteen eighty six as a pivotal
45:34
year, specifically three debut albums that you say set the tone for much of
45:37
what was to come. Poisons, Look What the Cat Tragged In, Cinderella's
45:40
Night Songs, and I Believe Tesla's Residents. Yeah. What stands out to
45:45
you about those three? Well, to me, like, I mean,
45:50
first of all, it was hitting me at a point where scientifically my brain
45:52
was ready to receive it. You know, I think when you're thirteen fourteen,
45:55
you're just in that you're soaking everything in. Everything means everything, but
46:00
those bands it was interesting. In the case of Cinderella and Tesla, there
46:05
was actually this kind of return to a roots here thing it was, and
46:08
they were bringing in a little bit more of the American blues rock influence,
46:12
right, a little more the arrowsmith All of a sudden, you're seeing you
46:15
know, the guitars aren't necessarily pointy, you're seeing less Pauls, you're seeing
46:20
telecasters, seeing these more kind of classic, kind of class guitar and you're
46:23
hearing these more classic guitar tones, but you're still seeing a pretty over lamb
46:29
rock and especially in Cinderella's case, right, I mean, you can make
46:31
an argument that that Night Songs cover is what people associate with the term hair
46:36
metal. They see that a lot of animal print, a lot of scarfs,
46:40
hair piled up high. But the music itself has more to me with
46:45
late seventies Arrowsmiths. It's a little darker, you know, it's kind of
46:50
got this gothic dark thing go on that Aerosmith would exploringly draw the line and
46:54
stuff. Ye, great songwriting there too. Yeah, I think that's Tom
46:59
Keith for Did he have a songwriting partner? Was it just him? I
47:02
think? You know what, I can't I can't recall right now what the
47:06
credits are if there is other people involved, But I know Tom is the
47:08
driving songwriting force for sure. I have to go and look. I can't
47:14
remember that because I think the other by guys came on later. I know
47:16
Snake Sabo from skid Row almost he auditioned to be in the band at the
47:22
time. They'd already been signed in everything. Yeah, yeah, like Slash
47:27
auditioning for Poison, Yeah, and yeah it wasn't dressed the right way if
47:31
something yeah. And you know, and thank god for Poison because honestly,
47:37
CC deville brought that kind of power pop songwritingthing absolutely. And I think that
47:40
that record to me, you know, it's funny for all the accusations of
47:45
of of of hair metal being super polished and super corporate, I mean that
47:50
record was made on a shoe string. It sounds as raw as any punk
47:52
record. To me. It's got more in common with the New York Dolls
47:55
than it does with You're right, you know, corporate rock. I mean
48:00
it's you know, I love it because to me it sounds like a band
48:05
playing at the absolute best of their abilities and just crossing the line. They
48:09
just kind of get there, but they've got the the intention. Brett Michaels
48:15
is a gifted songwriter. CC the Bills and given a songwriter the band has.
48:20
The band had a collective sound when they played. I'm not sure they
48:23
could do a Van Halen cover any justice, but they sure could do those
48:28
Poison songs. Justice like those songs, and I love the sound of that
48:31
little punk in there in that first album, a little punk dude, like,
48:35
I mean, God say right right, right right and Chief Trick,
48:40
she's tight right like it's got like those are the yes talk to me?
48:45
Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Tom Keefer soul songwriter, I'm looking
48:49
here. All songs written by Tim Keefers. Okay, there you go.
48:52
Yeah, yeah, you call Guns of Roses Appetite for Destruction the most important
48:55
rock and roll album of the eighties. When did you first discover that album
49:00
and what was your first impression of it? Did you think it would become
49:02
as huge as it became? Yeah, well, I mean by the time
49:07
I got it got to me in North Bay, Ontario. It was already
49:09
probably well on its way to be engaged. I remember it was a guy.
49:13
It was a guy played hockey. He was new to my high school.
49:15
He had come to play junior hockey, and he had the cassette and
49:21
he said, there's a lot of swearing on here. That's what I remember.
49:24
They're swearing on it. And I was like, okay. But when
49:28
I heard that, I mean, I think I say it in the book.
49:31
I'd sworn before, and I'd heard naughty words before, but I've never
49:36
heard somebody say the F word like Axel Rose said it. I've never heard
49:39
somebody yeah, I mean it and sound like that. Like I was going,
49:45
okay. It's one thing to be scared of Motley Crue looking like,
49:47
you know, something out of Road Warrior or something when you're a little kid.
49:51
It's another thing where your teenager going, these guys sound like they actually
49:54
live on the streets and do drugs and are violent, insane people like you
49:59
know. It had that danger to it. It had a visceral energy,
50:04
and to me, it's still when I think of a rock record and how
50:07
I want to hear it if I'm working in the studio izz he Stradling on
50:12
the left, slashing stereo. The drum feels Stephen Adler kind of like,
50:16
you know, Disco gone wrong, Kiss meets Peter Chris meets Disco, I
50:22
don't know. And Duff mccagan the gifted musician kind of holding it all together
50:27
in the basement with the punk attitude. And then Axel, who no one
50:30
sang like that. I'd never heard anybody sing like that, with like the
50:34
crazy lows and the crazy highs. It's like, you know, it's like
50:37
Nazareth meets motor Head or something like it was. It was outstanding, and
50:42
the songs and the power and the production it was dry and raw and and
50:47
and it kind of dovetailed with me seeing that concert live from the Ritz.
50:52
Did you ever see that concert? Yeah? Man, the energy of that
50:55
band out a tune and spin it and the singer leaves halfway through and the
51:01
bass doesn't work, and it's a gong show. Yeah, for any other
51:06
band, that would have been a career ender for them. It made them.
51:09
Yeah, like that was because it was dangerous, the actual rose getting
51:14
scratched and one part where anger and and just it all coming out. There's
51:20
one part where Slash reaches over with his guitar and a fan grabs the neck
51:24
and it makes like this dive bops and I'm going, this is incredible.
51:31
Like this is when when Spencer Pradford talked about participate but sitcipatory rock with quiet
51:37
Riot. This is like the next Devil who should have not where you're actually
51:39
having the audience making the sounds like crazy. It was like the Stones on
51:44
steroids. I always I always feeling that, you know, it's just yeah
51:47
man. As huge as GNR was, I still remember the deaf Leppards Hysteria
51:52
being just gigantic with it was a seven hit singles. That was their goal.
51:57
They wanted to have seven singles like Thriller and just churning out singles and
52:02
videos and eighty seven. The other one was I remember bon Jovie's New Jersey
52:08
single after single, video after video. Now Appetite is as you say,
52:14
it's raw in your face, Hysteria super polished. If you had to pick
52:17
one over the other, which would it be, Well, you know,
52:22
I love hysteria, I love I love I love hysteria too, And a
52:24
lot of people who don't like it knock it for its its sterility. But
52:29
to me, Marya, I love Martin. I love Martin Jarley. He's
52:35
a big influence. I mean, oh yeah, but I disagree wholeheartedly with
52:39
that assessment. I think it's I think it's absolutely a triumph of intention.
52:45
And you know, for me, there's tons of energy. Especially what I
52:50
love about def Leppard was you had the layered background vocals, but there's some
52:53
with punk energy like that. The energy actually comes from the attack of the
52:58
vocal approach. You know, it's it's got all that power and then it's
53:02
layered. So that to me is a and the layering of the guitar parts.
53:07
Did it go to extremes of times? Sure went to extreme when you're
53:09
when you're playing a decord but you're playing one note of time and dropping it
53:13
in like that's pretty crazy, But it was the intention to make it the
53:17
best it could be. Articulous production, yeah, and at the time,
53:22
like we can do that now so easily with technology, but what we don't
53:27
have is the hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of time and
53:30
thought that went into committing to the parts. And that's where the magic happens.
53:36
And that's the great shame of what's happened to the music industry. We've
53:38
lost people outside of the musicians, like we've lost the industry that supported who
53:45
actually brought a lot to the table in terms of art direction and our guidance,
53:50
Guys like John Kladner who could find songs and hear things and be outside
53:53
of the actual recording and performance element. And we lost the time things take
54:01
great things off and take time. Sure there are moments that are of spontanity,
54:06
but even the moments of spontanity, like an Eddie van Halen just ted
54:09
Teplman hitting record while he does eruption, there were hours and hours and hours
54:14
and hours of work for Eddie to develop that. You know, that those
54:17
techniques and that that that that showcase, right, they all made it look
54:21
so easy, but it was not easy. Yeah. Man. So there's
54:24
this formula that was working so well in the eighties, that was selling so
54:29
many albums. You'd have that first hard rock and single followed by the ballot.
54:34
It was like the whole formula was working. But did the record labels
54:37
abuse that formula. Could something have been done to prevent that drastic effect that
54:44
came with Nirvana or was it just inevitable? Well, because I think once
54:49
she started dealing with corporations as opposed to remember all of these labels that became
54:53
bohemos, they started off as people, you know, and m Records was
54:58
two guys, you know, Jerry Us and Herb Albert right and m Albert
55:01
Moss. Atlantic Records. You had at heart again, you're like, you
55:05
know you had these were people who were music lovers, who fostered talent.
55:08
But as things got bigger and bigger and bigger, it became about appeasing shareholders.
55:14
So all of a sudden, you've got to deliver results. You got
55:17
to deliver corporate results. You know, you got to hit your quarterly numbers,
55:22
and so you've got to move product. So how do you move product.
55:25
You bring in people who don't how to move product. You had people
55:28
coming in who didn't work in the music industry before. They were being counters,
55:30
but they were looking, okay, well this move, this moves,
55:32
this moves Okay, We've done the research. People like this, this and
55:36
this. Let's find some bands, W bands, Warrant, Winger, white
55:39
Snake, this is all great, a White Lion, We're gonna we need
55:42
another w band. Let's get that guy who produced all the records too,
55:45
as bow Hill Let's beget him, hey man, make it sound like the
55:47
last one. We really like the drum sound on that. So all of
55:50
a sudden you got drum sounds that are sound on the same guitar sound.
55:52
You're bringing in the same session people to sing backgrounds there start to become a
55:58
same this because you're creating a product, right, Desmond Child songs for yeahs
56:05
and who and who doesn't want to keep the success train rolling. Sure,
56:07
it probably feels like it's a land of milk and honey. This is going
56:10
to go on forever. We're all making records. Everyone's happy, the kids
56:14
are loving it. But with the changing of the guard, changing a taste
56:19
eventually, and this is a great thing about rock and roll. The kids
56:23
are always right, and the kids, all of a sudden they don't want
56:27
to listen to their older brothers records. They want their own records. They're
56:30
fighting their own thing. They're hanging out at the skatepark, and all of
56:34
a sudden, there's this cool underground thing coming from Seattle. Right, things
56:37
change. The cycle is inevitable, but it definitely in this case. It
56:45
was really when the corporations were starting to take hold of the music industry.
56:49
You know, labels are collapsing into under like the Time Warner umbrella, right,
56:52
or the Universal Music umbrella or the Sony Music umbrella. So all these
56:58
people who are once independent and entities are now part of a conglomerate. At
57:01
the end of the day, conglomerates remove the human factor. It's about numbers.
57:07
Well, let's finish with this. After reading the book, I feel
57:08
like it serves as reinforcement to someone like myself, who are the fans of
57:13
these bands and the music in the eighties amidst the excess is art and you
57:20
can't erase the good times and the memories that come with it. Like you
57:23
say, it's time to lose the idea that criticism of hair metal is a
57:27
criticism of who you are as a person. That's a good statement right there.
57:31
What do you say is the overall message of the book? Well,
57:35
I think the overall message of the book really I first I wrote it because
57:39
I was I was tired of hearing the bands that I love maligned and and
57:44
and kind of dismissed as being lesser than and not real rock and roll.
57:49
So I kind of came out with my you know my shield up, I
57:52
was, I was defensive, but I quickly let that go because really,
57:55
what it is about is not about fighting about them you love. It's about
58:00
sharing the music you love. And that's what I try to do the overall
58:02
music is sharing what I love about this music and how it connects to the
58:07
great rock and roll of the past, and and and that it deserves.
58:12
I think the best of it deserves a place of respect and honor in the
58:15
overall rock and roll story. That's it. I just wanted to share what
58:20
I loved about it and why it makes me so happy to this day,
58:22
and why it's still an important part of life. I mean, I'm still
58:25
using it for major life, you know, as support major sustan for major
58:30
life events like you know, the passing of my father, Like you know,
58:32
those bands mattered, They mattered, La Guns matters, White Lion matters,
58:37
Vito Brata Matterstrata. People who play didn't talk about Veto Man, come
58:45
back, Veto Wherever wherever you are. Yeah, man would love it.
58:49
Yeah, I love that band, White Lion. I just listened to the
58:51
first album the other day, Man, That Pride. It's just I love
58:54
it. I love it. Yeah, yeah, don't call it hair metal.
58:58
Art in the Excess of Eighties out now through ECW Books and it's available
59:01
wherever books are sold. How about where can people reach out to you?
59:07
Well, I'm I'm My social media is at Sean Kelly guitar Um. You
59:12
know, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, if anyone tweets anymore.
59:16
I think some people still tweet, but I'm mostly hanging out on Instagram because
59:21
I look like I like looking at pictures of hair metal bands. Yeah,
59:25
yeah, I don't call it hair metal. That's right. That's right.
59:29
So on, Thanks man, this was great, great talking about eighties rock
59:32
and roll. Yeah, man, I really enjoyed it. Thanks so much
59:35
for having me. This is the first interview for the book. It was
59:37
a great one. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Great to have
59:39
you on. That's it. It's in the books.