Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KILLER GRANDMA "GOD'S MISFITS" CULT MEMBER MURDERS 2 YOUNG MOMS ESCAPES DEATH PENALTY

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KILLER GRANDMA "GOD'S MISFITS" CULT MEMBER MURDERS 2 YOUNG MOMS ESCAPES DEATH PENALTY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: In the Last Days, the so called Killer Granny, a
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: God's Misfits cult member, escapes the death penalty in the
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: brutal murder of two Kansas moms.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: A grandma who was part of a gang called God's
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Misfits has just escaped the DP the death penalty after
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: she confesses she in cold blood murdered two young moms
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: in Oklahoma. Tiffany Adams aka Killer Granny, pled no contest. Yeah,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: no contest. Now, defense attorneys will tell you that's not guilty.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yes it is. It is viewed as a guilt gilty plea.
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  Speaker 2: They just don't have the backbone to put it mildly,
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  Speaker 2: to stand up in court and say yes, I did it.
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  Speaker 2: They are sentenced as a guilty plea, and it is
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: viewed as a guilty plea under the law. Tiffany Adams
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  Speaker 2: pled no contest, no look contenderary on two counts a
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  Speaker 2: first degree murder, two counts of unlawful removal of a
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  Speaker 2: dead body, two counts of unlawful desecration of a human corpse,
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  Speaker 2: and will serve life without parole. I will never forget
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: what happened to Veronica Butler just twenty seven, Jillian Kelly
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  Speaker 2: in her thirties, two young innocent moms on a lonely highway.
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  Speaker 1: This is what happened.
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  Speaker 3: The planned meeting place for Veronica Butler to pick up
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  Speaker 3: her children was a closed gas station near the intersection
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  Speaker 3: of Oklahoma State Highway ninety five and Rhodel. The area
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  Speaker 3: is flat and desolate. There are no trees or homes nearby,
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  Speaker 3: as well as no traffic camera. This is where Melissa
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: and Joey Padilla, relatives of Veronica Butler, found her car
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  Speaker 3: after the mom didn't arrive at a birthday party for
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: one of her children. The car was abandoned and there
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: were pools of blood nearby, so they called police. Investigators
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: now say they believe Butler and Jillian and Kelly were
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: lured to the location, arriving around nine forty am. Besides
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  Speaker 3: the pools of blood, officers found Butler's glasses on the
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  Speaker 3: ground near a broken hammer. Kelly's purse was also found.
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  Speaker 3: Inside was a gun magazine, but no weapon. Police say
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  Speaker 3: the women were forced into another vehicle. The women's phone
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  Speaker 3: stopped sending signals at nine forty two am.
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  Speaker 2: Only that official court document seemingly reveal that this was
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: not their first attempt on the young mom with me
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  Speaker 2: an all star panel to make sense of what we
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  Speaker 2: are learning stunning and chilling details emerging for a straight
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: out to Lauren Conlin, investigative journalist's host off the Outlawyer podcast, Lauren,
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  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You've been on the
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  Speaker 2: case the very beginning. I can't believe what I am
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: seeing in this affidavit.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: A granny, a killer granny.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Suspect uses a bulldozer guns, Lauren, what's happening?
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  Speaker 4: This is so tragic.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: It came out in these affidavits that this was not
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: the first attempt to take Veronica Butler's life.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: They were planning to do something in February.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: Where an anvil would go through her windshield as this
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: was very common in the area.
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  Speaker 4: They would fall off construction trucks, and.
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  Speaker 2: They believed, Okay, please tell me you aren't somehow a
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  Speaker 2: victim of Stockholm syndrome because anvils don't just fall out
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: of the air into people's cars.
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  Speaker 1: I don't care where it is.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, hold on right there, Cheryl McCollum is joining me,
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  Speaker 2: founder director of the Cold Case re Search Institute, forensics expert.
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  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, she's joining me right now
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  Speaker 2: from her squad car. Cheryl, host of a Hitting You podcast,
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  Speaker 2: Zone seven. I know, maybe in crazy Granny's world, an
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: advil falling from the sky or off a truck into
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: the young mom's car sounds reasonable.
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  Speaker 1: It's not, Cheryl, It's not reasonable. It is not reasonable.
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  Speaker 6: You're talking about something that is so heavy there's no
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  Speaker 6: way it's going to fall off a truck, and if
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  Speaker 6: it does, it's simply gonna land three feet onto the pavement,
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: not up five to six feet through her windshield. So again,
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  Speaker 6: when you're talking about plotting and playing a murder and
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: your baseline is wiley coyote, you've got problems from the
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  Speaker 6: get go. This was asinine at best.
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  Speaker 2: Can I ask you something, Cheryl McCollum. I know you're
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  Speaker 2: comparing them to a and their plan to a wily
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  Speaker 2: coyote plot. But these two women are dead, six children
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  Speaker 2: between them, and I don't care what anybody says, including
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  Speaker 2: a shrink that will tell me how wrong I am.
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  Speaker 2: There is nothing that can replace your mother, nothing, Amen,
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  Speaker 2: And it may be a far fetched plan.
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  Speaker 1: It may be, but these ladies are dead. Not just
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  Speaker 1: the young.
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  Speaker 2: Mom who is her right there, just going to throw
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  Speaker 2: a birthday party for her children. That's Veronica Butler, just
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  Speaker 2: twenty seven years old. But then you've got the other lady,
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  Speaker 2: the church secretary preacher wife. She's dead too, Jilly and
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  Speaker 2: Kelly in her thirties, the prime of her life. She
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  Speaker 2: was just doing a ride along to facilitate the visitation
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  Speaker 2: and the pickup of mom's babies.
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  Speaker 1: Six children without a mom. So I don't care how
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  Speaker 1: zany their plot is.
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  Speaker 2: There were pools of blood left around this young mom's
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  Speaker 2: car because in my mind of.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Killer Granny Maysh wrought in Hele and let.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Me point out, as Kelly Hyman will tell me pretty quickly,
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  Speaker 2: they're innocent until proven guilty, and you can all quit
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  Speaker 2: telling me that on Twitter. I know that I know
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: they're not guilty yet, but I guarantee you they will
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  Speaker 2: be because.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Of a track A mile wide, isn't that right, Lauren Collin?
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: A mile wide?
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  Speaker 2: Tell me about the evidence we're learning out of this
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  Speaker 2: warrant right here.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, so this is crazy.
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  Speaker 5: So first and foremost, they got a search warrant on
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: I believe it was March thirty first for Tiffany Adams's phone.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: So they searched on her phone and they find searches.
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  Speaker 4: That read taser pain level, where to.
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  Speaker 5: Buy a gun at different gunshops in the area, and
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  Speaker 5: then where to get free paid cell phones, and then
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  Speaker 5: how to get someone out of their house.
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  Speaker 4: Now in the meantime, my boyfriend.
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  Speaker 2: You know what, you're just like spouting all this damning
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: information like it's a fire hydrant.
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  Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin, too much, too fast.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm drinking from the fire hydrant here, he said,
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  Speaker 2: Look the pain level of a taser. That was the
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  Speaker 2: mother in law's just say Google search, she searched, the
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  Speaker 2: pay level of a taser?
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  Speaker 4: She did, she searched.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I got to go now to an eminent guest
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  Speaker 2: joining me, doctor Kendall Crowns. He is the chief medical
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: examiner in Terrance County. That's Fort Worth near Dallas Lecturer University,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Texan Christian University Medical School, and he is joining us
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: right now from his office at the Medical Examiners.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 2: I had a good friend at CNN who actually tasered
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  Speaker 2: himself and a good friend at Court TV that followed
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  Speaker 2: up on it to make sure it really hurt. God
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: rest his soul, Michael Christian. So, doctor Kittle Crowns, tell
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  Speaker 2: me how a taser works, and this is what was
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  Speaker 2: the plan. This is the plan to use on two
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  Speaker 2: unarmed moms a taser. How does it work and how
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  Speaker 2: badly does it hurt? Doctor Crowns.
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  Speaker 7: So, conductive electronic devices like taser work by injecting prongs
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  Speaker 7: into your skin and then using these skins moisture to
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  Speaker 7: conduct electricity across it and then send a large amount
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  Speaker 7: of electricity into your body, basically shocking you. The shock
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  Speaker 7: itself causes a tremendous amount of pain, causes you to
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  Speaker 7: spasm and then collapse.
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  Speaker 2: See that's why I have to work with you so
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  Speaker 2: much before I could put you on the stand. Conductive
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  Speaker 2: electronic device? What are you talking about? Can you dumb
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  Speaker 2: me down for me?
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  Speaker 1: Please?
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  Speaker 2: Just saying regular people talk how a taser works and
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  Speaker 2: the amount of pain.
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  Speaker 7: What can we compare it to conductive electronic devices? Is
• 9:11
  Speaker 7: what a taser is. Taser themselves prefer you call it
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  Speaker 7: a conductive electronic device, because not all conductive electronic devices
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  Speaker 7: are tasers. It's like a xerox machine is a copier,
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  Speaker 7: et cetera. So it is basically electricity being forced into
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  Speaker 7: your body, high amounts of electricity. It'd be like you
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: putting a fork into a wall socket. You get the
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  Speaker 7: same kind of experience from that, except the wall socket
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  Speaker 7: doesn't cause as much electricity to go through you as
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  Speaker 7: a taser does.
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  Speaker 2: As a general rule, a taser start with the baseline
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  Speaker 2: a fifty thousand vaults of electricity. Fifty thousand volts of electricity.
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  Speaker 2: What does that mean, doctor Kendall Crowns.
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  Speaker 7: That's the hig of electricity. It's higher than basically your
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  Speaker 7: standard current in your house. So it's a large amount
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  Speaker 7: of electricity being put into your body all at once.
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  Speaker 1: Just think about it.
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  Speaker 2: Think about it, Cheryl McCollum, This evil mother in law
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  Speaker 2: was prepared to use fifty thousand vaults of electricity minimum
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  Speaker 2: on the victims, in this case, two unarmed women. She
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  Speaker 2: didn't care if she caused that amount of pain.
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  Speaker 6: But let's talk even more basic. In the beginning. You've
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  Speaker 6: got four people and two women. It doesn't take a
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  Speaker 6: taser to control them. If you ambushed two unsuspecting victims.
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  Speaker 6: With four people, you're going to be able to control
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  Speaker 6: them fairly easily. I believe that the stun gun was for.
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  Speaker 8: Torture crime stories with Nancy Gray.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I will never forget what happened to these two beautiful
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  Speaker 2: young moms and this woman, the killer Granny Adams, is
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: accused of being the mastermind behind the fatal stabbing of
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  Speaker 2: her own grandchildren's mother, Veronica Butler and her friend Jillian Kelly.
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  Speaker 2: Killer Granny Adams was a member of the anti government
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  Speaker 2: cult group God's Misfits, and this is what happened to
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  Speaker 2: those two beautiful moms. Kelly suffered nine stab wounds and
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: seven cuts to her back and seven cuts to the
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  Speaker 2: back of her neck and head. She also suffered a
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: fractured vertebra and damaged spinal cord when she was killed,
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  Speaker 2: stunned gun marks on her neck and cuts to her hand,
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  Speaker 2: indicating she tried to defend herself. Her friend, twenty seven
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  Speaker 2: year old Veronica Butler, tragically killed in a very similar manner.
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  Speaker 2: Both women found in quote pools of blood. Veronica suffered
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  Speaker 2: a total of thirty sharp force injuries, including sliced fingers,
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  Speaker 2: consistent with attempting to defend herself. That's straight out of
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  Speaker 2: the autopsy report. And she was also found with stun
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  Speaker 2: gun marks to the back of her neck. The autopsies
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  Speaker 2: indicate both women were believed to have been killed before
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  Speaker 2: they were placed in a deep chest freezer. The freezer
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  Speaker 2: found under concrete slab and buried eight feet below the surface.
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  Speaker 2: Kelly Hymen, I mean it is Yang, which they call
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  Speaker 2: themselves God's misfits, have left a trail a mile wide.
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  Speaker 1: The State's going to have a field day with this.
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  Speaker 9: This is a horrible story for these young kids to
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  Speaker 9: lose their mother. And we always when we look at
• 13:18
  Speaker 9: things is why do people do this? What was their
• 13:21
  Speaker 9: motive behind this? What was their reasoning behind this? That's key,
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  Speaker 9: And allegedly they were in some big family dispute, bitter
• 13:29
  Speaker 9: dispute that left these beautiful kids without a mother. Ultimately, Nancy,
• 13:35
  Speaker 9: as you said, you are innocent until proven guilty, But
• 13:39
  Speaker 9: there is allegedly a lot of evidence coming out that's
• 13:42
  Speaker 9: going to make a strong case for the state.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I need to bring up the innocent until proven guilty part.
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  Speaker 1: What more do we know?
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  Speaker 2: Guys straight out to Lauren Colin, guns bulldozers, tasers, stun guns.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: What more do we know, Lauren?
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  Speaker 2: And all of this is to take out two innocent,
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  Speaker 2: unarmed mothers.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, let me stop you. There have been no guns found,
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  Speaker 4: just stun guns.
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  Speaker 5: So this is actually really interesting, and I'm a bit confused.
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  Speaker 4: I came across I think it was yesterday or the
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  Speaker 4: day before. It was on an outlet.
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  Speaker 5: Called the Oklahomaan, and you have to pay for a
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: lot of these articles. I did not pay, but I
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: did find a little snippet where the medical examiner said,
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: I don't believe they were a shot.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: And I'm going through.
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: All of these affidavits, the arrest appa, davits, all the
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: probable cause, and I don't see any guns. And as
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: Dave Max said, you know, Jillian Kelly had a pistol
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: magazine in her purse, but there were no guns. So
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: all we have here is burner phones and stun guns.
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  Speaker 4: And then we have the equipment that I was going
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: to get to.
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: So Tad Cullum, Tiffany's boyfriend, he rented some land about
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: eight miles away from where their vehicle was initially found
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: Veronica and Gillian's, and he rented equipment like bulldozers and
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: all these these names that my son would know, skid
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: steers could be much better than than I am at
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  Speaker 5: this And he ends up digging a hole in this
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: property and then covering it with hay.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: And this area is the last place.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Where the women's phones were actually pinged this area, and
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: the property owner.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: I believe his name is Jamie Beasley, he had no
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: idea what.
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  Speaker 10: Was going on.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: So when authorities, you.
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: Know, send all those trucks to get the to get
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: the women, to get the bodies, once they get the tip,
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: he's crying. He's like, oh my gosh, I had no
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: idea and just in complete and utter.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Shocks and joining me.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, Founder director Cold Case Research Institute and forensics expert. Cheryl,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I can say all the digital fingerprints, footprint adding up
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: placing the moms at this location and coincidentally the same
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: location where the burner phones were turned off. But I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: want to talk about the mag the magazine, the gun
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: magazine found in one of the victims purses.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: There's no indication that either of the victims had a gun.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: And when I say a magazine, I'm talking about a
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: mag not a clip. A mag feeds rounds into the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: gun chamber as it's being fired.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: So what do you make of a mag being found?
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: Not verified? A lot of information. They're playing this close
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: to the vest, which they should. But let's say you
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: are going with somebody to beat you know, ex family
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: members that they've been fighting with for nine years. Maybe
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: somebody gave her something to, you know, protect herself. We
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: don't know if this was her, you know, potential particle
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: weapon or perpetrator. We don't know yet. And you know,
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: all we do know is there are pools of blood
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: at the seat, broken hammer, So was somebody shine, was
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: somebody hit in the head?
• 17:04
  Speaker 11: Blood force trauma? We don't know yet.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Guys, we are learning that a minor, we believe it
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: to be a teen girl, has turned informant.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.
• 17:18
  Speaker 12: The teenager told police that she had heard conversation among
• 17:21
  Speaker 12: the adults that Adam's grandchildren were at risk when they
• 17:25
  Speaker 12: were with Butler. She told investigators that Adams had provided
• 17:29
  Speaker 12: Burner phones so that personal devices were not needed to communicate.
• 17:34
  Speaker 12: The girl said she had seen two of the phones
• 17:36
  Speaker 12: charging on her mother's nightstand the day before the murders.
• 17:40
  Speaker 12: Adam's boyfriend Column forty three had asked the owner of
• 17:44
  Speaker 12: the property he rented if he could do some work
• 17:46
  Speaker 12: there with his kids. Seer a kind of bulldozer. According
• 17:50
  Speaker 12: to the owner's conversation with police, Colum reportedly said he
• 17:54
  Speaker 12: wanted to cut down a tree, remove a stump, and
• 17:57
  Speaker 12: bury some concrete. The teens said she heard that her
• 18:01
  Speaker 12: mother and stepfather blocked the road, diverting the women to
• 18:04
  Speaker 12: where the others were waiting. When asked why Kelly had
• 18:08
  Speaker 12: to die, her mother reportedly said because Kelly supported Butler.
• 18:12
  Speaker 12: She wasn't innocent. The child asked Cora Twombly if they
• 18:16
  Speaker 12: had put the bodies in a well. She was told
• 18:19
  Speaker 12: something like.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: That, Wow, it's always difficult to put a child on
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the stand during a jury trial, but sometimes you have to.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: This teen girl revealing so much of what was going
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: on in the.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Home before the murders.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: In the home of the suspects, straight back out to
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Lauren Colin, joining US investigative journalist and host of The Outlier. So,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a skid steer is a kind of bulldozer. Where were
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: the two moms bodies found?
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: So they were found by a dam in that rented
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: area of the property, So I'm assuming that they were
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: somewhat covered by this hay and the fresh dirt. I
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: believe they called it the soil, and they were easy
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: to find. I also I want to point something out
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: as well, Nancy. Her the witness, Cora told her or
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: her daughter, whoever the witness was, that things didn't go
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: according to plan.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: This mission did not go according to plan.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: So I don't know exactly what that means, but I
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: have a hunch it has something to do with a
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: possible fit suspect that hasn't been arrested.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: But that's just my.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Team joining me right now.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Former US Marshall Service International Investigations Branch, author of Flying
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Solo on Amazon. IRV Brandt joining US IRV Brandt. Did
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you hear what Lauren Colin just said, and I've read
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: it in the official Cord docs that this gang God's Misfits.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Said they were on a mission.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: They call murdering these two young moms a mission?
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: What a mission from hell?
• 20:07
  Speaker 10: That's exactly what it was, Nancy. These people are obviously deranged.
• 20:11
  Speaker 10: They're not criminal masterminds. They had a previous murder plan
• 20:18
  Speaker 10: that didn't didn't pan out. Then they go into this
• 20:23
  Speaker 10: elaborate plan using stun guns and a bulldozer, but they
• 20:29
  Speaker 10: leave a trail a mile wide for police investigators to follow. Nancy,
• 20:36
  Speaker 10: I've never seen anything like this. They might as well
• 20:38
  Speaker 10: have written out a confession and signed it and sent
• 20:42
  Speaker 10: it to the police.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Soon after the bodies were found, police arrested Butler's children's
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: paternal grandmother, Tiffany Adams while that's a mother in law
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: from Hale, along with her boyfriend Tad Cullum, alongside Cole
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Twombly and Cora Twombly.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: All of them charged with murder.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: But in the last days this autopsy speaks volumes. The
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: full autopsy report for the second Kansas mom buried in
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: a freezer in a cow pasture after being reported missing on.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: A road trip, just released.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Much of the medical examiner's deductions is found in this
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: phrase quote. Given the extent of miss Butler's injuries, including
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: defects to both of her internal jugular veins with resultant
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: exagination bleeding out, it is my opinion her death was
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: very quick and likely occurred before she was placed inside
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: the freezer and buried. The autopsy goes on to say, quote,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: this opinion is additionally supported by the fact her body
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: appeared to have remained exactly how it was placed inside
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the freezer.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, what does that mean? Was her body folded or
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: crumpled up?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: The autopsy on Veronica was released about two weeks after
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the report on Jillian and Kelly, the other mom missing
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: on the road trip. That report revealed even more details
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: about her death. What more do we know about that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: fateful day and the people now charged with murder?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Earlier I think we heard Cheryl.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: McCollum compared it to Wiley Coyote their plot, and I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: admonished her because we've got two dead moms. But actually
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it does sound like something out of the Apple Dumpling Gang, except.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Nobody ever died in those movies.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Where they've been watching way too many movies with the
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: burner phones and the rendezvous point and the bull I mean,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: how much more obvious can it be or a brand
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: than to rent a bulldozer or to bring over your
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: bulldozer Mancia.
• 22:55
  Speaker 10: I mean, I can even give you a reasonable explanation
• 22:59
  Speaker 10: for their line of thinking. This is just not It's
• 23:04
  Speaker 10: like Cheryl Max said, it's something out of a cartoon
• 23:09
  Speaker 10: trying to drop an acme anvil on their head. I
• 23:14
  Speaker 10: don't know where these people came up with their ideas
• 23:16
  Speaker 10: when they started researching it online. That amounts to, you know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 10: someone saying, well, I want to poison someone, then doing it,
• 23:25
  Speaker 10: you know, researching it on their computer, then ordering poison
• 23:29
  Speaker 10: off an Amazon to carry out the murder. I can't
• 23:34
  Speaker 10: give you an explanation, Nancy, I'm sorry.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: The team told police that she was told that her
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: mother and stepfather would be gone that Saturday. When the
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: team woke up, she was told they were going to
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: be on a mission, and she was told the twine
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Bleaves were not home when she woke up around ten am.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: She says. The couple came back around noon in their
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: pickup and a flatbed pickup owned by a relative. The
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: teen says she was told to clean the interior of
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: the Chevrolet pickup. She asked what had happened. She was
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: told things had not gone as plan, but that they
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: would not have to worry about Butler again. At the
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: same time that the Twemblys arrived home, Tiffany Adams went
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: to pick up her grandchildren at the home of the
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: other couple who hosted God's Misfits meetings.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: The affidavit said joining me in All Star panel, Cheryl McCollum.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Did you hear that.
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: They used their own vehicle, They used their own computer,
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: They used their own cell phones to send text message,
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: They spoke in front of witnesses again for four people
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: to plot and plan. They made such severe mistakes. I
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: agree with her. They might as well have just done
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: a confession from the get go, because it was obvious
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: who did it. You and I talked today about you know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: the victims left a town of twelve hundred people to
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: go to a town of two hundred and eighty one people.
• 24:49
  Speaker 11: Your respect pool was people right off the bat.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: According to the witness that has emerged, this teen girl
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: was told the mother, her I guess boyfriend, and two
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: others who claimed to be quote God's misfits were on
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: a quote mission I'm reading from the affidavit they were
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: going to be on a mission. She woke up around
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: ten am. They all came back around noon, the defendants
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: in a pickup and a flatbed owned by a relative,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: and she, the teen girl, was told to clean the
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: interior of the Chevrolet pickup.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: What does that mean to me?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: That means that at least one of these mothers was
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: transported to a burial site in the Chevy pickup. When
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: the girl asked what happened, she was told things had
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: quote not gone as planned, but they would never have
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to worry about Butler, that being twenty.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Seven year old mom Veronica Butler. Again.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: At the same time, Tiffany Adams goes to pick up
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: the grandchildren elsewhere another couple's home who hosted God's Misfits meetings.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: What does that say to me?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: That tells me out to Kelly Hyman, a veteran trial lawyer,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: that there are other people, the ones that were babysitting
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the children during all of this, that knew about the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: plan and they are going to be states witnesses along
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: with this teen girl. As if I don't have enough
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: information and enough evidence anyway, now these babysitters, the other
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: God's Misfits, they're going to be witnesses or they could
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: always be charged for aiding and a bedding and I
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: don't think they want to go to the pen for that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You bring up a really good point.
• 26:44
  Speaker 9: Yes, so if people overheard this, they could potentially be
• 26:48
  Speaker 9: the state's witness and what that means is they will
• 26:50
  Speaker 9: testify in the trial of saying what they've heard, or
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: potentially if they could potentially be charged with aiding and
• 26:58
  Speaker 9: betting and insisting in this in the fact if they don't,
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: if they helped assist with this murder.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And stuff like that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 9: So it'll be interesting to see what transpires in the
• 27:08
  Speaker 9: coming next days and whose turns as a state witness
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: or potentially are there going to be additional charges for
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: people who overheard stuff and were potentially involved in this
• 27:18
  Speaker 9: as well.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Back to doctor Kendall Crown's joining us out of chart
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: County fort were from the Medical Examiner's office. Doctor Crown's, again,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. We're trying to determine
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: whether the manner of death was shooting or stabbing. I
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: know the bodies had been buried haphazardly.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Would you be able to tell and how the manner
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: and cause of death?
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: Certainly you'd be able to determine the cause of death
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: based on the injury patterns even though they had been buried.
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: It won't take away the damage to the body, especially
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: to the skeletal system kind of, and then the manner
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: of death would be fairly easy.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: The fact that they've been.
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: Buried out in the middle of nowhere. They're obviously been killed,
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: so it's going to be a homicide. So determining between
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: gunshot wounds, stabbings or beatings, it would just be looking
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: at the injury patterns on the body based on the
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: information you already had. Pools of blood, broken hammer, the
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: fact that they were talking about using an anvil in
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: the first place makes me feel like they've probably beaten
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: these individuals to death using a hammer after they stunned them.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, doctor Kimmel Crowns, I understand what you're saying.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: You believe there's a very strong potential on the two
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: victims being beaten dead with a hammer.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And why do you say that?
• 28:42
  Speaker 7: Because there's a broken hammer at the scene, there's pools
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: of blood, and they have been talking about doing blunt
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: force trauma to the individuals in the first place, using
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: an hanvil. So it doesn't sound like they had planned
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: to use guns all along, that they kind of planned
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: to use blunt force trauma. So it makes me think
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: that they use the stun guns to kind of subdue
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: them and then just beat them to death with a hammer.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: You know, doctor Kendall Crowns, I was thinking gun because
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: of the amount of blood pools of blood there, and
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I attributed the hammer handle to breaking the windshield because
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: a witness stated she had driven by and was around
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: ten am. The mom's left for their journey of forty
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: five minute drive around nine am, and at ten am
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a female witness drives by and sees their vehicle and
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: sees a window on the driver's side bust it out. Now,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I attributed the discovery of the hammer handle to breaking
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: out the window, But your theory makes a lot more
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: sense to me. Plus, I'm not hearing about any guns
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: being registered to the defendants, although I find.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: That really hard to believe. But that said, what about it,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum.
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: As to why the glasses will be on the ground,
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: large pools of blood. Nobody in the vicinity heard a
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: gunshot it also, would you know? To me, goes back
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: to my theory. They were tortured. This was anger. She
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: didn't look up stunn gum, she looked up the pain level.
• 30:23
  Speaker 11: This was very personal. They have been fighting.
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: For almost a decade over those children and they were attacked.
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: I'm going to say it again, this didn't take four people.
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: This was a deliberate gang.
• 30:40
  Speaker 13: Ambush killer Granny's suspects bloody ambush on two unarmed Kansas
• 30:47
  Speaker 13: moms on their way to a children's birthday party, and
• 30:51
  Speaker 13: they apparently used tasers, burner phones, even a bulldozer to
• 30:56
  Speaker 13: affect their plan.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Joining me an All Star panel. You were just hearing
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. But now to Lauren Conlin, the investigative journalist's
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: host of the Outlier podcast. I want to hear what
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: you have to say about the use of the hammer
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: as the murder weapon. But also I found something buried
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: in the affidavit and I found this really interesting. I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: want everybody on the panel to jump in. We find
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: out that three prepaid cellular phones were purchased from Walmart
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in Oklahoma back on Feb thirteen. That's how long they've
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: been planning this since Feb thirteen. This is what I
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: found really interesting. All three of the burner phones were
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: powered on and access cellular network for the first time
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: at Colum's residence, So Ellie law enforcement can identify the
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: first time these idiots turned on their phone is basically inside.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Their own home. Dang dong.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: They couldn't figure out that they are leaving a digital trail.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: They're turning on the cellular phones that were used to
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: orchestrate this double murder. They turn it on for the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: first time in or near their own home. I mean,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: they need to go back and watch Ocean's eleven all
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: over again.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Lauren Colin, you were jumping in. What were you saying?
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: Well, I can provide some context to this as well,
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: because while they appear to be extremely dumb criminals, obviously,
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: I think there's an element to this, right, the farm element.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: I don't think that it's out of the ordinary that
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: he would rend farm equipment or dig holes xyz.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: But using your own cell phones.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: And turning these cell phones, these burner phones on at
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: your own house. This goes to the fact that Tiffany
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Adams is actually.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: Very connected in that town.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: She runs and is responsible for the Simmern County GOP.
• 33:07
  Speaker 11: She's their chair, she was a former school board chair.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: She knows the Sheriff's office.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think there was a quote where she
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: had said, you know, I know the path the judge
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: takes to work. She knows everybody, and I believe that
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: she thinks that she is untouchable and people don't necessarily
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: want to talk the one judge that did speak. He
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: was forced to resign the next day. So it's really interesting.
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: And I think that this woman, in particular, Tiffany Adams,
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: she holds a type of power that we are just
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: going to be learning about.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what that calls for a change a
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: venue that won't be hard.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Still looking very carefully at this, Adma, David, and I
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: want everybody to weigh in on this.
• 33:51
  Speaker 14: The whole dug about two hundred yards below with dam
• 33:57
  Speaker 14: feel back in and covered with Hey, I mean you
• 34:01
  Speaker 14: could probably see that with a drive over from a helicopter.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, did they not think cops are going
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to find that? I mean, or Brandt. I've seen many
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: many homicides.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I've investigated many, tried many, covered many. But this is
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: a plethora a Pandora's box of evidence.
• 34:24
  Speaker 10: Nancy, That's exactly right. Like you, I've been doing this
• 34:28
  Speaker 10: all my adult life, and I have never seen a
• 34:34
  Speaker 10: case probably easier to solve, easier to prove. When we
• 34:40
  Speaker 10: take it to you, as the prosecuting attorney, you'd look
• 34:46
  Speaker 10: at us and say, you've got to be kidding me.
• 34:49
  Speaker 10: You know, I can't believe this. Where's did they videotape
• 34:54
  Speaker 10: themselves committing the crime? Did they post it on social media?
• 34:58
  Speaker 10: They did just about everything else. It's imaginable, you know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 10: to say they did it. The confessions have got to
• 35:05
  Speaker 10: be forthcoming. I would imagine the police.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Two beautiful young moms murdered and their bodies desecrated in
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: such a horrible way. Oh to be buried out in
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: a field, a cow pasture, then covered with cement blocks.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Off what they did to these women? And now killer
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Granny escapes the DP. What do you think what happened
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: to these two moms, Veronica and Julian.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to this.
• 35:54
  Speaker 12: The motive, according to investigators, is custody of Butler's two children,
• 35:58
  Speaker 12: a custody battle has going on for more than five years.
• 36:02
  Speaker 12: Father wrangler Rickman, Tiffany Adam's son, was awarded custody of
• 36:06
  Speaker 12: the children, but Rickman was confirmed to be in a
• 36:09
  Speaker 12: rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of the murders.
• 36:14
  Speaker 12: For Veronica, Butler's custody arrangement allowed her supervised visitation with
• 36:18
  Speaker 12: her children every Saturday, and reportedly, according to Butler's attorney
• 36:23
  Speaker 12: she was likely to be granted unsupervised visitation during an
• 36:28
  Speaker 12: upcoming hearing the Affadavid states that Adams vehemently opposed this
• 36:33
  Speaker 12: and went to great links to plan and purchase items
• 36:36
  Speaker 12: used in Butler and Kelly's murders. It continues Adam, Cullum,
• 36:41
  Speaker 12: Cole and Cora were willing to kidnap and murder two
• 36:45
  Speaker 12: victims to limit visitation for Butler.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And isn't she guys who are talking about Adams are
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: talking about Tiffany Michelle Adams, age fifty four, who is
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: the alleged evil mother in law her who played this.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: It seems to think that she's the political boss of
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: the county. I got needs for her political boss or no,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: she's going down because of her own actions. And it
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: seemingly straight back out to Lauren Colin or anybody. Eryl McCollum,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: you may know the answer to this. It seems as
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: if earlier there were plans to take out a judge.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Another relative was concerned about the custody issue and was.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Told that no need for concern.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: They wouldn't they would not have to worry about the
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: custody battle much longer because and I'm quoting from the affidavit, Adams,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: that's the grandma, the mother in law quote had it
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: under control, that she knew the path. The judge walked
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: to work and would take out Veronica at the drop off.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Take out Veronica at the drop off.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: What about that?
• 38:00
  Speaker 11: Tell it on herself. She has told on herself.
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: I think for the last nine years, I think there's
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: probably been threats all over creation. And let me tell
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: you the most franaking thing for me, this woman, the
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: ex mother in law, cannot stand Veronica. She has made
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: that clear. Veronica is no good for the children. They're
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: not safe with her. She probably doesn't cook and clean,
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: she doesn't take care of them. They're only you know, okay,
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: when they're in her custody. When Veronica did not meet
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: except the children up, especially on the daughter's birthday, remember
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: it was her birthday, she would have been the first person,
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: Tiffany would have been the first person call of the
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: court saying she's in contempt.
• 38:46
  Speaker 11: I told y'all she was no good.
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: I've got these children sitting here crying because their mama
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: didn't show up. Is this baby's birthday? When she didn't
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: do that, she didn't make that call. Pitching a fen
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: that told me right there she's involved.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Is nobody worried about?
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Discussion of killing a judge pops up in the affidavit
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: because I'm looking right at it that we don't have
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: to worry about custody anymore. Because Adams, that would be
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: the mother in law, Tiffany Adams quote, knew the path
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: the judge walked to work. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, and
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I'm the only one seeing that. Were they going to
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: kill a judge too?
• 39:28
  Speaker 11: It is telling you the links that she was going
• 39:31
  Speaker 11: to go to Nancy.
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: Nothing was going to stop her from keeping those children
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: away from Veronica. She was going to have every possible
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: avenue stopped so that she could have these children.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: She's supposedly so connected to the courts and to the police,
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: but she has refused to go by any of the
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: court's order. They've basically made her bulletproof for years. She
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: had stopped the mama for for years. She has refused
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: to do what the court tells her to do. And
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: when it looks to her that she could no longer
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: prow the court or the victim, she killed her.
• 40:11
  Speaker 11: That's how it looks, plain and simple.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: There is the death penalty in Oklahoma, Kelly Hyman, there
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: have to be special aggravating circumstances in order for a
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: prosecutor to seek a death penalty, and those have to
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: be clearly enunciated far prior to trial, in writing. There
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: has to be an announcement the state is going to
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: seek the death penalty, and there is a very limited
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: number of aggravating circumstances that will suffice. However, more than
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: one body is one of those aggravating circumstances.
• 40:48
  Speaker 9: Ultimately that will be up to the state to make
• 40:51
  Speaker 9: a determination on whether they believe that they can bring
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: it based on the facts and.
• 40:56
  Speaker 11: Evidence of the case.
• 40:58
  Speaker 9: But there is a lot of evidence that is coming out,
• 41:00
  Speaker 9: and Nancy, to your point about the alleged about the judge,
• 41:03
  Speaker 9: that is very, very disconcerting because judges are the ones
• 41:08
  Speaker 9: that preside over the case and they're the ones that
• 41:12
  Speaker 9: make determinations, and so the fact that there is allegations
• 41:16
  Speaker 9: of harming a judge, which is very disconcerting and very upsetting.
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: But ultimately, no one, no matter who you are, is
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: above the law and people need to be held accountable,
• 41:27
  Speaker 9: and ultimately that will be up to the jury of
• 41:30
  Speaker 9: whether they're innocent or guilty in this case too.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Our brand joining US former US Marshal Service and author
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: IRV to thank All of this was over what every
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: other weekend or Wednesday to Saturday versus Thursday to Saturday visitations.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, the so called evil mother in law,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: evil granny killer suspect, she's the mother of the bio dad,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: so she would have access to the grandchillildren every time
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: he had visitation or you know, shared custody, so if
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: he got the children half the time, she would have
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: access to the children half of their lives. And in
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: a divorce, you know, for a lot of people, that's
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: pretty good visitation.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And all of this over what a few days a month, Nancy, I.
• 42:25
  Speaker 10: Don't think the time had anything to do with it.
• 42:28
  Speaker 10: I think to this woman, this was obviously about control,
• 42:34
  Speaker 10: and she wanted complete control of when who was going
• 42:40
  Speaker 10: to see those children, and when they were going to
• 42:42
  Speaker 10: see those children, and what the circumstances were going to be.
• 42:46
  Speaker 10: And she wasn't even going to allow a judge to
• 42:49
  Speaker 10: dictate to her how to take care of these children,
• 42:53
  Speaker 10: because she said it, she'll take that judge out. She
• 42:57
  Speaker 10: knows his path to the court. So no, Nancy, it
• 43:03
  Speaker 10: makes no sense other than the fact that the woman
• 43:06
  Speaker 10: was one of complete control over every action concerning those children.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Two. Doctor Kendall crowns.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall crowns your theory that a hammer was used
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: to bludgeon the women dead, most likely about the face
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: and the head. The pain they would have endured preceding
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: their death would have been unbearable, correct.
• 43:33
  Speaker 7: I mean if these being tased or shocked with the
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: electronic devices or electric devices, then being beaten with a hammer.
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: Hammer isn't really efficient to kill someone because it's hard
• 43:45
  Speaker 7: to break the skull with a hammer, so they would
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: have to continually strike them multiple times, eventually fracturing the head.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Grandma has just escaped the death penalty after she confesses
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: she blood murdered two young moms in Oklahoma. Tiffany Adams
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: played no contest. Sometimes there just ain't no justice. Nancy
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Grace signing off Goodbye friend.