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Five Cubs who should be back next season · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Filed Territory Network's Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at The Athletic. Patrick, we are
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: going to talk about five players we think should be back,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: could be back, however you want to phrase it. But
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: these are five players that make sense, that should return.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And we're going to start where we did last time.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I think we started last time with pitching and we're
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: going back to pitching. Uh, again, I think like the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: way we framed the last episode was, you know, look,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the Cubs have to be open-minded with pitching because they
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: need pitching. They just need like, this is the focus
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of the off season and they can't really close any doors.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: But I do think there's a, you know, there are
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: types that make sense. Cubs had two types that they
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: got in the middle of, or one type that they
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: got in the middle of the season and two different pitchers, uh,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: one was this maybe overlooked move at the time, a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: desperation move. I was in New York at the time
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and I remember being almost, you know, like, you know
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: how counsel is when you ask him a question, he can,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: he can almost downplay the severity at times. Like we're
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: not in, you know, like if you feel like, wow,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: how are you going to fix this? He'll, he'll just
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: say like, Hey, this is what we're faced with. This is,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: This is how we do it. Like, you know, you
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: face challenges during the season. When I asked him, you know,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Ben Brown goes on the IL and Edward Cabrera, and
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: it was a surprising move at the time when Ben
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Brown went on the IL. And then Edward Cabrera returns
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: from the IL and immediately gets hurt with a hamstring injury.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And he, there was no like, hey, we'll figure this out.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: He said, yeah, we're in pretty dire straits right now, essentially.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: They were in desperation mode the next day, maybe a
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: day later. they acquired David Peterson from the Mets, who
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: had like a 6-plus ERA, did not look like he
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: was not having a good season. But you go from
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a team that had a pretty bad defense at the
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: time to the best defensive team in baseball for a
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: guy that gets ground balls at that rate. Outside of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: one disastrous start, I believe, maybe two, David Peterson was
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: probably their best pitcher down the stretch. And like, even down,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: like when I say down the stretch, I mean like
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the final few months, but like really the final few weeks,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: he was like where council was saying like, that's some
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of the best stuff I've seen from him. I don't
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: know what type of deal he's going to get. I
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: think he should be up there on the Cubs list
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: of like, he just checked, like he is a ground
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: ball machine. He doesn't miss bats at a crazy high level.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: but he's not like this sub 20% strikeout guy. Uh,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I think he makes a lot of sense, uh, really
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: good fit for the team and seemed like a, you know, he, they,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: it was a good working relationship. Like these guys, like
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: he should understand, like, this is, this is a good
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: spot for me. And I think the Cubs should understand like, Hey,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: we want more ground balls. We want guys that keep it,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like miss barrels and, uh, and they're going
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to keep it in the ballpark. I think David Peterson
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: fits that mold.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: If he wasn't traded mid season, I'd almost think of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: him as a qualifying offer candidate. Like that's how I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: think how big their need is. And that's how well
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: he's pitched.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Obviously that trade.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Negates that possibility, but it's not unreasonable to think this
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: is going to be a two to three war pitchers.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: If one war is worth roughly $ 10 million, you can
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: do the math there. Uh, Credit to the front office.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I know we were just talking off air about the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: end-of-season press conference and how many pitching questions there were.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: They were inundated with that, and I think they were
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: all fair. But, I mean, they got Peterson for six
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: starts before the trade deadline itself, which was a desperation move,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: but a very well-executed move nonetheless. I mean, he beat
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the Brewers– in Milwaukee, beat the Cardinals in St. Louis,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: pitched really well against the Yankees in a game that
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the Cubs would win at Wrigley Field. And he also
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: had a very strong September. I know it felt like
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the Cubs were kind of limping towards the finish line,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: but you had one rough outing against the Brewers at
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: the beginning of September, but came back and pitched well
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: At Milwaukee versus the Braves in Cincinnati and.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: At Fenway Park.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Was that actually? Yeah, that was the doubleheader day. So
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: if you look at his body of work, I mean,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: he was trusted to pitch in the playoffs. I think
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you look at first-round pedigree, playoff experience with the Mets,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: one-time All-Star. I think you add it all up. I'm
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: sure the Cubs won't be the only team thinking about him.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: But I would think the way this audition went, both
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: sides will have to be open to the possibility of
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: a reunion.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I said he's not a sub-20% strikeout guy. He kind
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: of is, actually, the past couple of years. He's like
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: right there and has had a season below that. But...
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I think everyone gets my point. Like this is a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: guy that puts the ball on the ground at like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a 50% rate. Uh, that's really good. And, and obviously
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: we saw some of his best, uh, stuff and, and starts, uh,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: when he was with the Cubs. Um, someone who I
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: guess maybe we didn't see their best start stuff, especially
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: down the stretch, but still is just a really good
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: fit for the Cubs is, is clay homes. Obviously teammates with, uh,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: David Peterson with the Mets. And this is, when he's right,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: an extreme ground ball guy. I think as a starter,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: it's like mid-50s. But actually this year, I think it
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: was above 60% ground ball rate. It was extreme with
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the Cubs. The bat missing also is a question there.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: But again, I think you're looking... You'd ideally love both.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: A great strikeout guy that puts the ball on the ground.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Those guys probably cost a ton of money. Clay Holmes
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: isn't going to come cheap, but I do think he's
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: more affordable than the top of the market. We're assuming
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: that he opts out of his deal. I believe he's
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: got a player option there. But he was... I think
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: there was concern over how he looked at the end
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: of the season. Craig Council kind of wondered, was this
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: like he'd returned from injury? Did he kind of run
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: out of gas there? He was walking a lot of guys.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: The command wasn't there. Sometimes it bit him. Sometimes he
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was able to work around it. And why was he
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: able to work around it? Because he can get ground
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: balls and get out of situations with a great defense
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: behind him. I think these both these guys like bringing
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: both of them back would be a nice start. And
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: like you'd like to if you're going to if that's
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: where a lot of your money is getting made, whether
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: it's a trade or a big signing. I think I
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: think one more on top of like Holmes and Peterson
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: would be a great way to to like really say like,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: here's here's how we're addressing pitching to ground ball guys
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: and this stud, whatever it may be. You know what
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I mean? Uh, I think that would make a lot
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: of sense. And, and just, uh, um, with so many
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: guys coming back from injury as well, uh, Kate Horton,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Justin Steele, uh, Edward Cabrera and the blister issues. Um, uh,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: they're Ben Brown. Like these are third, those are all
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: question marks right now. You'd love it. If all four
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of those guys by July are impacting the team in
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a positive manner, um, I think Steele is the most
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: likely to impact the team. And then Cabrera, you hope,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't have blister issues. But, like, you need more guys, obviously.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: And you can start it with those two, I think.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I remember talking to Ben Brown right before the trade
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: deadline because we thought Clay Holmes was a possibility and
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: was just trying to work it ahead. And Brown described
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Holmes as, like, this incredible mentor. They had worked together.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: last off season in the Nashville area. And Brown was
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: just gushing about Holmes's knowledge, his willingness to share information
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: and offer suggestions. And you're talking about kind of a
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: mindset that you want in your clubhouse. I'm not sure
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: how much we were able to kind of gather that
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: when a player is dropped into a new clubhouse situation.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: In August, but that is Holmes's reputation. Craig Councils talked
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: about how impressive it is the way that he bet
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: on himself. I mean, you're talking about an all-star reliever
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: for the New York Yankees who pitches in a World
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Series and then says, I want to do something totally different.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I think I can be a starter. And that that
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: took a level of confidence and craftsmanship that impressed counsel
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: and I think probably most of the baseball industry that's
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: why I think Holmes will probably have a pretty robust
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: market assuming he opts out of that uh 12 million
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: dollar uh salary he could take for next year he's
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: gonna be 34 next season whenever Next season begins.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: But he's.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Got a really nice profile. You talk about the ground
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: ball rate, the experience in big moments. He's like 6'5, 245.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: There's a lot there. I think you can sort of
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: project on what that might look like over a full season.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I guess what happened to Holmes in September, those months
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: usually happened even to good starting players. pitchers. The sequencing
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of it was just terrible when you have a rental
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: pitcher and a desperate need at the front of your rotation.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I honestly don't know how they left things. I think Holmes.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Liked the Wrigley experience and liked the staff teammates, but I.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Just don't know if it certainly wasn't like a storybook
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: ending where you're like, Oh yeah, they got to bring
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: him back. I think it'd be curious to just kind
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: of get his thoughts on where they go from here.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's fair. I do think, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: like I wonder like a healthy off season and you know,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: like what, what do the Cubs plan for him? Like
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: what kind of thoughts do they have to kind of,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: if there's anything, you know, to, make his stuff crisper
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: or anything that was off. Who knows? Uh, I also, we,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: we talked last episode about, um, guys that maybe you'd
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: let walk in. And one of those was Matthew Boyd. Uh,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: there's no Jameson Tyone, obviously released in the middle of
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the season. I think those two guys were kind of
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: leaders of the staff. You kind of alluded to this,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: but Clay Holmes would be really good at that. Veteran, um,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: goes about business the right way. Hard worker, uh, can
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: kind of set an example for any younger guys that
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: are coming up. And I think they have hard workers.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, Ben Brown is probably the young guy. Ben
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Brown and Kate Horton are the two young guys that
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: could be a part of this rotation. And that's a big,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you know, put an asterisk by both of those names.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't know when Kate Horton will return. And
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if Ben Brown is a starter anymore.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: It's just a huge question mark. We don't know what
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to think there. But. Two hard workers, but you can
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: always use a veteran to kind of set the example
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: of like, here's how you do it and kind of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: like go from there. Let's take a quick break and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: then we can talk about some other names that we're
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: thinking could return.
• 12:54
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• 13:56
  Speaker 1: All right patrick uh I don't know what the Cubs
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: are thinking when it comes to catcher, to be honest.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I know that it was a huge focus right before
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: they signed Carson Kelly, that, that off season, it, we
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: knew it was something that they wanted to address. Can
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: they afford to bring back Kelly? Can they afford to
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: let him walk? I think like this is again, an option.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Is this a mutual option? I believe.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: There's a, mutual option in essence was kind of a
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: deferred money, like a mechanism to get that deal done
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: more than like an actual sort of option that both
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: sides would take seriously.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it, I don't know, uh, what kind of
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: contract Carson Kelly is looking for. There could be a
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: debate of like, let him walk, uh, bring in a
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: youngster like Owen Ayers, who was around the team at
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the end of the season to kind of observe and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: learn how things are run at the highest level. I
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: think that's a risk. I thought Miguel Amaya, I think
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: there's some corners of Cubs fandom that are not fans
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: of Miguel Amaya or didn't think he had a good season.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I was thrown off by that, seeing that. Yes. Yeah. Uh,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I was very thrown off by seeing this. Uh, like, uh,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I see some tweets sometimes that pop up on my
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: for you and people were grading the players and a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: lot of people had bad grades for Miguel Amaya. I,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I don't understand where that's coming from above average offensive
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: output by way to runs creative. Plus, uh, really well
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: respected by the pitchers. Uh, I think decent framing numbers, uh,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: throughout guys at a high rate, if I'm remembering correctly, uh,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: which is a huge improvement for him. It was something
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: on my list of things I wanted to write about
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and never got to it. Uh, but, uh, you know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: like this was someone that had Tommy John surgery maybe
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: four or five years ago. And I think it just
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: took him a while to get back to like being
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: that good, uh, having that good strong arm. control the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: running game. Really? I thought he like really good tandem,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: not elite, not the best tandem in baseball, but very,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: an above average to above average catchers offensively and defensively
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: and working with the pitching staff. I think you, you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: take it again. If it's a reasonable price, Carson Kelly, obviously,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you know, like these catchers are supposed to be leaders and,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: catchers are supposed to, you know, do a lot of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: different things. They're spread very thin as far as like
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: all the things that they have to do and to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: just be average. And I think we see that with
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the different catchers, whether it's Cal rally, whoever it is,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: great offensive catchers. It, it can, it doesn't always last
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: for years and years and years and years. It may
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: be like just steady performance. You will take that. And,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and I think, look, it's not the perfect example. They're
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: not some powerhouse team right now. That's steaming steam rolling
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: through the playoffs, but Cleveland goes straight defense with, with
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: their catchers. I know Patrick Bailey just hit a huge
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: home run last night, but that's not why he's there.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Him and Austin hedges are their catchers because they're elite defensively.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So just, you know, how you value catchers, what you're
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: looking for. Yes. It's great to have offense. I think
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: it helped a lot. Carson Kelly would buy it that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: high in the lineup. Sometimes it, I think it makes
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: sense to bring him back at the right price. I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: wonder what the Cubs exactly are thinking. And, you know,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: do they want like someone that like own airs probably
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: is coming up at some point next season. I think
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: just the fact that he was around suggests that, you know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: they want to get this guy up there soon.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the upcoming class of free agents and,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Catching is always sort of thin. I mean, there's just
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: not that many good two-way catchers out there, and the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Cubs happen to have two of them this year. I mean,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Ryan Jeffers, Tyler Stevenson, Carson Kelly is going to be
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: right in there in that top mix of guys who
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: can do both. The rest is just a lot of
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: early to mid-30s guys who did not have good seasons.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: To be honest, there's always that sort of glut of
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: defense-first aging catchers, and I think maybe rationalize Kelly as
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: spending a little more to stabilize your pitching, that his relationships,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: his work ethic, his leadership is worth enough to maybe
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: extend to a place where the model would say no.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: letting him walk in a vacuum makes sense but do
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: you want to trust a guy in airs who hasn't
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: even made his major league debut yet and look amaya
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: is a terrific role player but we know the the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: injury history that he has i'm looking at here he's
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: played 117 games in 2024. I mean, that's the only
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: time he's reached triple digits. This year is 83 games,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: 254 plate appearances, like just a perfect one, a catcher.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And maybe he is at that age and stage of
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: his career where he could take the next, could get
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: the next level, could take that step. And, I think
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: without that injury history, I think I'd be more curious
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: to see that. Or if you did have a good 1A,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: 1B option waiting in the wings, maybe ONA is that guy.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I just think, you know, at a certain point, you
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: do have to put a little more certainty into your
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: position player group.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: We talked last time.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: About letting Ian Happen say a Suzuki walk, like that
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: is our expectation. It's not a slam dunk, but I
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: don't know if you are trusting Matt Shaw and Pedro
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Ramirez more to be everyday type players.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Do you want to have another? Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Pretty big question mark behind the plate when you're revamping
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: almost your entire staff. So I think they'll, and we
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: know that Kelly loved his time in Chicago with the Cubs.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I think, I think he would, I think it's safe
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to say he would put the Cubs very high, if
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: not at the absolute top of his list of preferences. Yeah.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And this level of catchers is, is certainly valuable, but
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: it's not like break the bank type contract. Like it's
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: going to be an acceptable deal in all, in all likelihood.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It's something that they can't. And Jed even said this, I,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: what was the answer to when I said like, uh,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: focus on pitching, um, And he said, it's not going
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to be a hundred or he said, I don't know
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: if it's going to be a hundred to zero ratio
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: pitching to, to position player. It's not going to be
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: that they need to like, they need some veterans on
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the bench or platoon that can help out with if
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: it's Peter Ramirez and Matt Shaw. And they need to,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they don't think they just don't think they're going to
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: go in with Miguel Amaya and Owen Ayers as their
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: top two. I'd be a little surprised by that. at minimum,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: have a veteran ready and available on a one-year deal,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: if that's what it is. Maybe Carson Kelly's more than
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a one-year deal, and maybe that's why, maybe that would
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: be a reason why they look elsewhere. I just think
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense, and you bring up
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a great point about the pitching staff as well. Let's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: make this, I want to talk a little bit about
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a reliever. Let's make this our Fox One On Deck segment. Uh, Patrick,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: one of the relievers who probably took a lot of
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: heat or did take a lot of heat down the stretch. Uh,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Jacob Webb, uh, the option that the Cubs have, I
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: want to double check. I think it's two and a
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: half million, but maybe it's one and a half again.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: That's what, uh, he, he signed for, uh, okay. This
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't say where I'm looking, doesn't have the number of
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: how much that option is.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: 2.5 million.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. You got two points. Okay. So 2.5 million. Uh, Oh,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that's a million more than last year. If it were
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: like the Andrew Kittredge, uh, option, which was eight, nine,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: We're having a much different conversation. Uh, we're not probably
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: having this conversation. Uh, they're not picking up an $ 8
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: million option. Two and a half is, is how you
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: kind of spread the money around. Uh, I know it's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit more, uh, you probably would love it
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: if it was just like another one and a half
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: million deal. Look, I think you need some sort of consistency.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: We're talking, when you talk about bull, look at how
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: important bullpens are right now in the postseason. Everybody's going
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: bullpen games. Even the vaunted Milwaukee Brewers with their great
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: pitching staff, they're pulling guys quickly. They're leaning on their relievers.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense. You got to be aggressive.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: You've got to trust your bullpen arms. You're going to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: use the same guys a lot. Should Jacob Webb be
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the Cubs' eighth or ninth inning guy in 2027? It
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: would be a similar situation to what just happened where
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of things went wrong. He should not have
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: been in that spot. If things were going right for
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the Cubs, he would not have been. He did an
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: amazing job for about two and a half months there.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: really good eighth and ninth inning guy, hit a really
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: bad rough patch, and then kind of settled down in
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the last couple outings when he was back in a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: less high leverage role. I think if Jacob Webb goes
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: into the season as your sixth or seventh inning guy,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and look, the bullpen, actually, I don't want to, don't
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: want to, you know, suggest that the bullpen is fine
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: right now, but you have, you have guys, the, the,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I'll say this. This is what I'll say. Last year,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: they were going into the offseason with everybody but Daniel Palencia,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a free agent. They had nobody that was coming off
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a decent season that was coming back. And they did
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: bring back Theobar, but that's it. They had a lot
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: of free agents. This year, they don't have as many
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: free agents. And I think keeping some of that stability
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: while also having some guys that you can add and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: they certainly will add to the bullpen, but two and
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a half million is about what you're looking for, for
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a guy that Jacob Webb, the role that he holds
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: should hold. Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Unless there's some piece of information that we are just
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: simply not aware of. I don't see why you wouldn't
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: at that price point. And given how well he pitched,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I think council said it at one point, he's like,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: this guy's been getting the biggest out of, out of
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: the game every night for three months. It was something
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: like that when he was on that hot streak there
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: last summer. And so I also don't feel like there's
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of people coming to take his job either.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: It's not like the Cubs have this. Yes, they do
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: have a little more certainty and they do have some options,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: but I don't know how many like overwhelming relievers are
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: currently in there employing. And you're right about, you know,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Dividing X number of million. Like that was kind of
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: the Kittredge thing, whether it was eight or $ 9 million,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: whatever that club option was, the Cubs were like, we
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: could probably take a shot on eight or nine different
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: relievers and hope like two of them stick rather than
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: putting all of that money up front in our off
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: season into a, you know, whatever 30 something reliever. Who's
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: not like a traditional closer. Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: And I think we'll see that again. I think we're
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: going to see a lot of NRIs of course, They
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: hit on Ryan Rolison. I think you'd love to see
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Ryan Rolison come back as a number two lefty if
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: there's some way that they can do something about that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: It's not easy. Hard to acquire a number one lefty
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: that you know is your number one lefty out of
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the gate. Adrian Morajone isn't going to come cheap if
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: they're even contemplating something like that, which would probably... be
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a surprise for this org, unless they're going to convert
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: him to a starter like the Rays did with Griffin Jacks,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: then maybe suddenly Adrian Moore at home becomes more interesting. Patrick,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: before we move on to our next segment or player,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I want to tell the listeners about MLB on FOX.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: MLB on Fox is streaming on Fox 1. The postseason
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is here, and we have your front row seat to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the wireless walk-offs, lights-out pitching, and clutch plays all playoff long.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Stream each NLDS, or, well, not NLDS anymore. Stream each
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: NLCS game, then the 2026 World Series live on Fox
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: 1 at home or on the go, live or on demand.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Never miss a moment. Stream now. Start your Fox 1
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: three-day free trial today at fox1. com. Those playoffs, the NLCS
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: starts Sunday night, I believe. It's going to be fun.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I know Cubs fans don't want to see those teams, Dodgers, Brewers.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's the number one and number two team
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: maybe in the game going up against each other. It
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: should be an exciting series, Patrick. Last guy on our list.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: He's not a free agent. I think trading him would
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: be insane because it's at lower value than what you
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: acquired him at. But Edward Cabrera has to come back.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And maybe we could even say this. Come back. He
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: needs a bounce back. That's what the Cubs need. They
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: need to... put those, uh, blister issues in the past.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I'm, I'm not, uh, like a
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: blister expert here. Uh, blisters can be like a, uh,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: something that just like linger forever. I remember two decades ago,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: it's probably now, uh, Josh Beckett had blister issues, but
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: then he put up some insane years with, between the
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Marlins and the, and the Red Sox. Uh, you know,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: like it, I don't know what Edward Cabrera is going
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to be. This is what I do know. The Cubs
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: are a team that cannot, cannot give up on stuff.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: No team should, but the Cubs cannot. And I know
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: he was frustrating. He was frustrating to watch from the
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: press box. There was a lot of, I would say
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: this walking down from games where he would just felt
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: like he was nibbling and every count was three and two. and,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and it would be walk, uh, base hit. Um, you know,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: it just be like, why are we covering three and
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a half hour games with the pitch clock? Uh, it
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: felt like you Darvish 2018 that like, that's where my
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: brain was going, where it'd be like, Oh God, another
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: full count. Oh God, is it, can he get through
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this inning? Um, And look, that was a very different situation.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: You Darvish was dealing with an elbow issue that was,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: they struggled to diagnose. This is not an elbow issue.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: We know what the problems are. His stuff was degraded
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: for various reasons, but I think the biggest reason was
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: that blister. It really impacted his curve ball, which was
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: his best swing and miss pitch. One of the best
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: swing and miss pitches in baseball last year. I looked
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: this up. I probably wrote that when they acquired him and, and,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: but I, it reminded myself while writing about him the
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: other day, it was like, this was one of the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: best pitches in baseball. And it was just like, not
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a big part of his arsenal this past year. That
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: obviously that is matters a ton. I know he's got
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: upper nineties stuff, but we wrote about this when he
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: was acquired, his fastballs get hit hard. Those aren't his
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: best pitches. It's his change up in his breaking ball. And,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: and they just weren't effective this year.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I think the NLCS lead into this was appropriate because
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: it felt like he was their guy to level up
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: this staff, to compete harder for a division title, and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: to have the length to be able to sustain multiple
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: playoff rounds, that this would be a guy you'd trust
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: against the Dodgers, against the Brewers. That was the best-case scenario.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Cubs never came close to that. Whenever spring training starts
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: next year, I can already– see the headlines of, Oh,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: the Edward Cabrera is working on this or, Oh, he
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: feels better. And, Oh, we should have done this, you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: back in whatever. I'm not going to be super interested
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: in that storyline. I'm not writing him off, but I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: want to see it in real games of a healthy,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: confident version of Edward Cabrera. You know, they, acquired him
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: thinking that they'd have these multiple years in case he
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: had like a major arm injury because his medical file
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: was sort of checkered. And now you think like they've
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: kind of burned one year in that sense without getting
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: any sort of return. So, I mean, no doubt in Mesa,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: whenever pitchers and catchers report next year, he is going
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: to be a focus, but I'd imagine, you project him
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: as like, maybe if everything breaks, right. He's like your
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: fifth start. You can't count on him. You can't like, um,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: ease up in free agency thing. Like, Oh, well, you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: we think Edward Cabrera could bounce back. Like it's a,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: be a pleasant surprise. Uh, it wouldn't be unprecedented. Um,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: it's not impossible, but if you're going to try and
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: take the next step next year, uh, you just need,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: need more certainty built into your rotation.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He, he, yeah, he's just another question mark in
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: this rotation. Absolutely. I don't, I agree with you. I'm
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: not going to write him off. I, it was a very,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: like I said, it was, it became a hard watch
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: over the, over the course of the season. He has,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: you talked about clay homes being six, five built like
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: a starting pitcher. Like he's this imposing figure on the mound.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: He should be like this intimidating pitcher. He he's got
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: upper 90 stuff. That's something that they worked on. He
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: kind of lost his fastball velocity. He was down a tick. They,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: when he had the initial blister issue and he first
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: went on the IL, they, they spent that time since
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like a, this awful injury, you know, elbow,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: like he could still throw in some ways or work.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: They worked on his delivery. They got him working in
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: his lower body better. that led to the velocity coming back.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: It did not lead to the bite on the curve
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: ball coming back. That is the blister issue. That's what
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they believe. They kind of chased their tail all season
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: long on him, trying to fix the blister issues, dealing
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: with the hamstring issue. It was never like, okay, here's
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: an extended period of time where he is his normal self.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: And let's see what he can do. And let's work
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: on the things that we wanted to build off of.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It was just like trying to get him back to
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: baseline all, all season long. And, and that's, That's not ideal.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: What you mentioned about the injury stuff, there were no
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: elbow issues this year. We don't know. We just don't
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: know when that's going to pop up because this is
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: someone that has dealt with arm issues in the past.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So you just hope that he can have a clean
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: season and they can kind of try and build upon
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: who he was with the Marlins in 25. We'll see
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: if that's even possible. We'll see when they can start
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: doing that. All right. That's it for this episode. Thanks
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: so much for listening and make sure to rate, review,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: subscribe to Northside territory, subscribe to the YouTube channel and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the athletic where Patrick and I are on
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching everyone.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Take care.