Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.84 | The Cost of Being Everything to Everyone: Setting Boundaries & People-Pleasing, with Shay & Mariah

Transcript

Ep.84 | The Cost of Being Everything to Everyone: Setting Boundaries & People-Pleasing, with Shay & Mariah · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're your hosts, Mariah and Jay.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Two online business strategists passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast started because we both felt frustrated by the lack of deep, meaningful, and transparent conversations around what it takes to actually run a business that we both feel good about.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we decided to create that for ourselves.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: We want our solo episodes and guest interviews to be examples of how you two can chase your dreams and go down your own rabbit holes, ultimately leading to a more sustainable and fulfilling life.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So are you ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take this journey together.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're so glad you're here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's dive in.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to recording solo episodes where it's just like me and Shay, we kind of keep like this running Google Doc of like things that are coming up in our lives and just like we kind of sit with topics.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I was at the gym earlier this week, I was like sitting with because I knew that we had a solo episode coming up, and I'm like, what the fuck do we want to talk about?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like we could talk about so many different things, and then we could also talk about the same thing all the time for the rest of our lives.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, okay, well, what's some themes that are kind of coming up here?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what came up for me was like the cost of being everything to everyone.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's nuanced.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it shows up in different ways for different people at different times.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of just reflecting on like my own journey of, you know, over two years ago, me and Andrew moved from Buffalo.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when we left, I remember moving and be like, holy fuck, like, have I ever been this relaxed?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I didn't realize how subtle my stress was.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought I healed it just from like being away.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, peace, everybody.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I ain't got no social obligations.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have shit to do.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can do whatever I want.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can be horizontal and read.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have anybody asking me to go to, listen, I love your babies and I love the fact they're getting married, but like I don't have to go to your baby shower.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to go to your wedding shower.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to go to your birthday.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like I send love from afar.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: What a gift.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I move home a couple months ago, almost well, longer than that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, girl, we did not heal that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was literally only just noticing it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like moving home for me has really kind of forced me to look at the nuances on a different level and to kind of realize that like the true healing is like within the integration and within the practicing of it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to practice my boundaries before.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to practice like choosing myself over making other people happy.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really have to practice that.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: The only person that like I was in close proximity to all of the time is Andrew.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we're both pretty independent and like respectful of each other's boundaries.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would say like a lot of the time.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like I didn't really have to put anything into practice.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then moving home, I feel like I'm just like seeing things from a new level.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like just this conversation and looking at it from different perspectives.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just, I guess I'm just curious to see where this goes.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, I wanted to ask you.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, what has coming back home looked like or felt like for you?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will say it's different.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like more grounded in myself and like a different level of self-awareness that I don't think that I would have been able to achieve without moving away.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and we're we're probably gonna shoot another episode about like inner inner child work.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, do you want to know?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was sitting here laughing.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, of course, those are the two that we're thinking about.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Cause like when you move back home, I've had this experience as well.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's when you launch to keel, you realize, oh shoot, I have to actually go in and do the inner child work.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So this will be a nice like one and two.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's interesting because like I I was too close to the situation.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Before that point, I never really moved away from home.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like I also didn't realize how traumatic my childhood was.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for real, for real, until I like got in a relationship with Andrew.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that everybody's childhood was uh awful, like mine.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then like getting to know his family and like his story and his childhood, I was like, oh, so this is like actually pretty fucked up.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it was moving away that allowed me to see it and allowed me, so like in my family, I typically was the glue.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was the one solving everybody's problems, I was the one putting out everybody's fires, even though I didn't start them.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when I moved away, it was like, oh, look, they can put out their own fires.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: They were just relying on me because I was willing to step in and do it and be the problem solver and everything like that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like after being away and being more self-aware about these things, I can pick up on the nuances and it's still fucking hard.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like I notice it quicker and I'm not like stuck in the sauce for too long.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I might notice my nervous system kind of like get a little flared up and I'd be like, well, I have to solve this problem for blah blah blah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, wait a minute, no, I don't.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like it's just like a different level of awareness, but now I have to put in the effort to like tell people no, which is hard.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I um my husband and I had this on a real I it's funny I never put two and two together about this before, but back in 2015, we moved abroad um to South Korea and then to Taiwan, and we were gone for like three to four years, and we traveled and um all over the place.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I really relate to what you were saying.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I before I left, I called myself like a person with anxiety, like, oh, I always have all this anxiety and I was stressed and um and I had a lot of like back pain and physical health issues.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then when we quit our jobs and left and moved abroad, I didn't have any of it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was like, what's anxiety?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't even remember the person that felt those things.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I felt so good and like present all the time.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was wonderful.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like on your weekends, you could just do what you wanted, and there was no like shame or guilt around not going to the birthday party or whatever.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I'm pretty introverted, so that like really suited me well.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so that lifestyle was awesome.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you have the opportunity, I think it's good in your life to get away from where you grew up in some way, whether it's years or months or whatever.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's really good, I think, to get out of your box and see things differently and and kind of realize like what you're saying is we all I definitely had this like subtle level of stress when I'm home that I wasn't able to identify until I stepped away from it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that is really cool and powerful, but I fell in the same trap as you of like, oh, I'm this grown woman now, you know, like I've traveled the world, I've really healed myself.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there's something they talk about with people who travel called reverse culture shock.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where you come back to your country and you all of a sudden don't feel or your city wherever you came, your home.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you don't feel like you fit in, you feel weird, like you know, it's a weird thing where like everyone's the same in a way and you feel different, and and people can't really relate to your stories and they don't really want to talk about what you they'll entertain it, but like you can't really talk to people about what you've done for a while.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you can kind of feel like a stranger.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that was tough to get thrown back into that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then, oh, now all of a sudden I feel all this anxiety again.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I hated that feeling.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot what that was like, and I was feeling that family guilt and like letting that weigh heavy on me again.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think that it's good.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there are certainly awesome things about having family.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as you get older and like, I don't know, you just appreciate that more.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel more grateful for my family and for having people to go to and having things to do on the holidays.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it is tough.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I still like really struggle with make I never want to make my mom feel disappointed or like uh, you know, my mother-in-law sent it, like she hasn't seen us in a while, you know, all that stuff like really eats at me.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think like that is that subtle stress.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about subtle stress last season, but that kind of like builds up over time in a way that maybe for me my right eye starts twitching or like my hip will go out or something.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so learning to deal with that in my home with my people has definitely been like the chapter and the growth I think that we're both going through.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's funny because like we we don't get taught how to navigate this because okay, so I find that like usually when we start learning about boundaries, right?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because like this is what supports us in this is like having boundaries.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not coming, it's not a you thing, it's a me thing, I need some fucking space, like, or I just don't want to, I don't want to go.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not coming.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: But like I feel like when we first learn boundaries, we take it from like one end where we're saying yes all the time, to being like jarring about it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember being like borderline nasty about like, yeah, but like this is my boundary, like respect my boundary.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody's like, okay, bitch, why don't you just say that like you don't want to come?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like what why you have to be so like in my face about it?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of like projecting and like making the other person feel bad, even though they didn't know my boundary at all, but I'm projecting on them, like, how did you not know that I didn't want to do this?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then like I want to say attack, but like, and then I get, you know, like really defensive about it type thing.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I think that's like step one.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I really relate to that too.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: When you first so the healing process when you're coming back into like a typically stress can be relieved by setting some kind of boundary where you're saying, hey, this doesn't work for me, here's what would.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we all do that of like you realize you haven't been setting boundaries and you get kind of pissed.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, what the fuck?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, these people haven't been respecting my boundaries, but they didn't even know that this shift had happened.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so you kind of can take that out on them, which I think is so normal.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that pendulum swing, you know, it's really normal to like identify it and get pissed about it, and then potentially like maybe not lay your first few boundaries with the most grace.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the people you're laying them with, it's a total 180 for them.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like forgetting their perspective as well.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean, like, I've been on that side too, where I've had a friend be like, no, I'm not doing that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why are you so upset?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just say a neutral, like, yo, not feeling it?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Which is interesting because then I noticed the best boundaries get set when I'm coming from a neutral space.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that requires awareness for me to bring it up before I teeter into the other side of now I'm fucking pissed about this.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like nipping it in the ass, like right then, right there, of like, hey, actually, right now I'm not feeling it, yada yada, or like, no, I'm not free Thursday for breakfast at 10 a.m.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I work for myself, but that doesn't mean that I get to meet you whenever the fuck you want, just because you have a day off of work.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, if I were to just say, hey, actually that doesn't work for me, what about Saturday morning?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: It feels completely different than me always saying yes to friends going out to breakfast during the week, even though I don't want to, but they have a day off of work or it's a holiday, or like, what do you mean?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: We should do this.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just interesting noticing the difference of like coming from a defensive perspective than like when I'm being neutral about it, but that took a lot of awareness, and I don't hear people talking about it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can you set boundaries from a neutral space?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard anybody say anything even remotely close to that?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I like what you're saying.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've noticed that if I'm in a big group text and like, let's say everybody came in and was like, Thursday morning works best for me, but like I had something on Thursday morning.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: My first reaction isn't just to neutrally communicate for myself.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, sorry, I can't make that work.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to do Friday.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll be like, oh, everybody else can do it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I can rearrange my shit.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that is like the gut reaction.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was trying to think, like, how do you notice when a boundary needs to be set?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's it, you know, like even just communicating your wants and needs.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's in it from a very neutral spot of like, this is facts.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I got a meeting tomorrow, Thursday morning.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can't make it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, guys.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like it in I think for me, maybe it's like a worthiness thing.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm like, oh, they wouldn't want to move their plans.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's just easier for me to like move it.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem is when you keep being that person over and over and over, you get salty, irresentful, and then start laying your boundaries too hard.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I love that idea of neutrality.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then there is also the other side of the coin where it's like in relationships, you have to compromise.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's like, well, if neither of us ever compromise, when are we actually gonna get together and have breakfast?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what it is?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's walking that thin line of like, I'll compromise this time, you compromise next time, yeah, but also not keeping score.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's and I don't want to be too passive and I want to be, you know, like being proactive in my life, but I also am pretty easygoing and I like when things flow, and like I think when things are flowing, that's always the easiest.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: There is kind of like I think it comes back to you have to check in with you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: How does this make you feel?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like flow and ease, or does it feel like you're kind of getting stepped on?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that gets sticky though when your nervous system is always in like a fight or a flight with that total stress, like adding up.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because like I remember, oh man, I definitely had some lessons happen.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: This was like before I moved, actually.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a cousin who has issues with alcohol, and she was going through like it was me and her were very close, hanging out all the time, and then we got to a point where it was like I could not be around her anymore.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was always bailing on plans or like, dude, we would, I love her.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we would be at a bar, and then she would just like have a couple drinks and then just disappear and leave me.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is not fun for me anymore.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember having to set that boundary, was which is a pretty fucking intense, like one of like the first boundaries that I ever set with people is like in this situation.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to be like, listen, I love you and I can't be around you when you're like this.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then her reaction was literally like so even because she was kind of like in and out of getting help for it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like two weeks after, let's say she got out of like a 30-day program, she would come and she would want to hang out.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I still didn't know, are you sober or are you drinking again?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then it became this game of like me trying to figure it out.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I can't hang out with you for a while.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really painful for me.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that it was very painful for her.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And she would come back and she was like, So when I'm at my lowest, I can't count on you.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, fuck, dude.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So then I'm sitting here questioning and I'm like, I mean, if I was at my lowest, like I would want people there for me.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then I'm thinking, I'm like, but I'm just like enabling her.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like being like, oh, it's not a problem.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like we could just forgive and forget.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's fine.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like when it's the 25th time of you leaving me somewhere, no, we can't forgive and forget.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it was so difficult for me.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like I remember I had to have numerous conversations with Andrew about it, of like a neutral party to be like, how can you just bring different perspectives here?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I feel like I have so much guilt about this.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up uh not talking to her for over a year, two years basically.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when I moved back, she actually just got out of like a longer program.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like now she's probably like eight months, nine months sober, which is like the longest that she's ever been.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like our relationship, we're kind of like slowly starting to build trust together again.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like she apologized for like putting me in that situation.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, I wanted to be there for you, but like, dude, I literally could not do it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, no, I kind of needed you to not be.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of needed everybody to like leave me, even her mom.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then once I heard that like my aunt kind of like backed away, I was like, okay, I can't guilt myself into being there for you in this moment.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I remember that was a huge situation to where I was like, I feel like I don't know the right answer and I don't know who to ask, or like I don't know how to figure this out.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and what you're saying for me is the line that runs underneath all of this.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't do this, I'm being mean or I'm being unloving in some way.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my family and my husband's family both have a lot of codependency patterns.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And to the point where, you know, when I learned about codependency, I've probably said this on the podcast before.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I told my therapist, I was like, this is me and everybody I know, like for always.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we, you know, there's some addiction, you know, and that kind of stuff all like kind of trickles down.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: But dealing with codependency is a a lot of people-pleasing issues and trying to be everything to everyone and not disappoint anybody.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something our families use a lot of like, well, how could you do that to her?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's being so mean.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think there's this idea of like, at some point it becomes enabling.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's this idea with little kids, you don't want to reward bad behavior.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that stems with adults as well.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like if I keep being the crutch that you go to when you are, you know, killing yourself.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at some point that's unhealthy for both of us.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to be mean, which may feel mean right now in this moment to you, but but I have to be the one that remembers, like, no, there's going to be this future point where you come back to me and say, like, hey, I needed tough love.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for not continuing to be my crutch and forcing me to figure it out.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really like a dance of like choosing your own battles.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do think you can kind of, when you get into boundary work, you can kind of attack everybody in your life.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can hit them real hard with a whole bunch of stuff.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that's very productive either, because it's one thing to lay boundaries, but it's another thing to hold boundaries.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think you could should kind of start small.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then on the other side, what I have noticed is when I really save the boundary conversations for something that feels very big.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't lay a boundary and have a serious conversation with someone unless I've really spent some time and like simmered on it and really like sat with myself.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is getting back to neutrality.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I um I had a recent situation with my husband where I was, I was noticing like I was one act out a little bit and like my inner child was going wild.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what the fuck is going on?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like these are all new feelings.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of sat with myself and I kind of realized there were some things that I was unhappy about in my relationship.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I literally like I think for two weeks, I just like sat with me.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what about me is going on right now and journaled on it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then what are healthy things that I can say in a really gentle way, but make me feel like I am um communicating my needs because right now I'm sitting here getting resentful, and that's where all of this inner child activity is coming from.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I had a really good conversation, like maybe the best one we've ever had.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think it was because like I gave myself some time to say, like, okay, is this a boundary I want to set?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know setting a boundary is takes work.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then how can I set this in a way that feels very loving?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about it as loving, but it is neutral.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is a place of like, hey, I know you want me to be my best in this relationship, and I want you to know right now, like these things are bothering me and I can't show up the way I want to, you know.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that I think was the difference of like giving myself some time with it and making sure, like, hey, this is a battle I actually want to fight.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's worth it for me.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And afterwards I felt fucking fantastic.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of, I don't know, I think there's like a dance or nuances with all things.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like in this scenario, it's like those little things that add up.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not setting huge boundary with your like I feel like my example was like big, but it's like these are like the little nuances that then add up to like these big things.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like your husband that you live with.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is day-to-day shit, and it's like setting a boundary of like, no, you need to fucking put the dishes away.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I feel like when we get in these situations, we like you were saying, it all adds up, and then you become resentful, and then you pop off, and then they're just like, Okay, I didn't empty the dishwasher, and like now you're like, what?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's such a good reminder to be like, we are all living in our own worlds, and then we project, how did you not know that that was pissing me off?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: How did you not know that I was like annoyed at you?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just like, What?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: How the fu you didn't say anything, you didn't say how would I know that?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: How would I know that this is literally like eating away at you type thing?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like I've had, I think it's just like living with somebody is can be a lot.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like the nuance is like, for example, I don't usually watch too much TV.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew enjoys watching TV a little bit more than me.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So usually when we're watching TV, I'm way more flexible about like what we're watching.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, no, I don't care.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't care.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't care.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure, I don't care.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of just like watch whatever he wants to watch.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then over a certain period of time, I get in the habit of saying, Oh, I don't care.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: When in Certain situations, I do care.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like watching that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I've trained myself to be the I don't care when watching TV girl.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I noticed myself getting resentful.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: This literally happened probably like a month ago, where he put something on the TV and I just started crying.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Are you okay?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No, every time you just watch whatever you want.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so him, I notice him, he's like feeling bad because I'm fucking crying about it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just like, Well, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I thought you didn't care.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, sometimes I don't care, but sometimes I do care.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't ask.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Because you tell me that you don't care.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it's always watching whatever you.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then we got and like he tried to make it okay.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Well, what do you want to watch?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, I don't know.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then it turned into this thing, and I had to like take a step back because he was also like, Well, it's not fair that like you're making me feel guilty about this when like you didn't bring this up.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: You just are crying, like you didn't even bring this up before it got to that point, and I had to step away.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, it's not about the TV, it's literally not.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's the fact that like I haven't carved out time for myself, and I feel like I am giving little pieces of myself to everybody and to every task and to like every single thing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I know that's kind of like my red flag for myself is when I get this like inner burning turmoil, and it's like the inside of me just wants to scream, leave me the fuck alone.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, leave me alone.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because you want to push people away so that you have time to yourself.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give yourself time to yourself before you want to burn them down with a torch?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, time to yourself is a big one with me.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I have to have some time to myself.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you kind of you that we wanted the episode to be called the cost of being everything to everybody.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what you said there when Andrew asked you what you wanted to watch on TV, and you said, I don't know.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's the cost that a lot of us run into of when for so long you've been the easy go with the flow.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: You get detached from what am I interested in?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what would I want to watch?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like what do I like?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you get there, that is a frustrating place to be.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, of course, you reacted that way with Andrew.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like, I I I don't I don't ever get to watch what I want.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll ask you what you want.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I have no clue.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's sometimes scarier.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I think that the a lot of us when we are stuck in people pleasing tendencies um for a long time, the cost is your I I don't know if authenticity is too hard to say, but I think the cost is your connection with yourself.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get to know yourself, you're really disconnected from your goals and wants and desires in life and you're frustrated because like you can see that, or maybe you get to the point where you can see it, but you don't know what the answer is.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I think that's why this is tough, but boundary setting is tough.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to find that nice neutral point where you can kind of fall in the middle.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wanted to share, you know, you mentioned uh your signals.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think being aware of like you personally, what your triggers are, your signals.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what was helpful for me, I um was working with a therapist and she was having me do like a lot of visualization exercises around this issue and like codependency.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this, I always think about everything in terms of movie scenes, and usually it's Harry Potter, but this one I think is from The Labyrinth, which is like an older freaky children's movie if you've seen it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this little old lady who has this backpack, and the heavier the backpack is, she's like hunched over, like literally walking at like a 90 degree angle.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing is, like, she doesn't have to carry the backpack, like she's choosing to carry the backpack.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like that visual came to me of like, oh, here I am.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I have this backpack.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And in life, we all have a backpack of responsibilities.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's got that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: But what I am doing is I am grabbing things from my husband's backpack, I'm grabbing things from my family's backpack, I'm grabbing things from my friend's backpack, and I'm loading them into mine.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm hunched over walking at a 95 degree angle.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, and then I'm salty at all of them, but really I'm the one.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the one.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm in control here, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I chose to put to take on these things.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a therapist once said to me, I was like, Oh, I feel like I'm so drained and everybody's sucking the life out of me.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, You can't, if you're giving people the straw, you cannot blame them for sucking your energy.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this idea of like, you kind of have to call it all back.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to be um aware of what you are taking on right now, that is what's yours and what's other people's.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that's like a nice transition to what almost I think inspired this conversation was a book that you had read, um, kind of talking about that idea of like in life, one of the best skills that we can have is being aware of like what's yours to take and being aware of what's other people's to take, and then like how to uh not cross the two.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you mind telling us a bit about that?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I read the book a couple months ago, but it's the courage to be disliked, and it's like a conversation with a philosopher and like a student that's kind of like studying philosophy, and the whole book is kind of like a conversation that people are having.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's pretty popular.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I shared it on my Instagram, my business Instagram stories, and a lot of people said that they enjoyed it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really helpful because like one of the main a the one of the main things that they talked about is like every like every source of suffering comes back to relationships, personal relationships, essentially.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: The philosopher is like every form of suffering comes back to that, which I thought was interesting.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was very much like letting people do their own tasks.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: What is your task?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it just made me realize that like like the backpack analogy that you have of like, I'm just over here doing everybody's tasks and like losing my mind.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say a big shout out to all the fucking parents out there because like you not only have to deal with potentially like your partner's tasks, your own tasks, now you have like little humans that depend on you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'm not at that point, but I get a little taste with my brother and my nieces, and like I'm extremely close to them.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to live next door to them and like basically help raise them.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Their mom wasn't in the picture, and um I very much got so attached, and like it's so easy to take children's tasks and make them your own.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like my niece now is the oldest of 16 and she's going through some issues in high school.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just I notice me wanting to like come in and save her.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want to figure it out for her, I want to provide her the solution instead of like I had to practice with her being like, hey, I'm down to talk about this.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of see it like this.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to talk more about that, like I'm here.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And like I got really upset at the fact that like I couldn't go in and do this for her.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like being a parent, like, God bless y'all.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: God bless y'all.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is like on a whole other level.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: But like even with Andrew and like his stuff, it's like it's his task to put his coat on the coat hanger.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is not my task to walk around the house and to pick up his coat from the couch and then put it on the coat hanger.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because like he has to get in the habit of doing that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it's difficult because it's also like, um, what is it?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we we each have different thresholds of cleanliness.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Two, my threshold gets hit a lot sooner than his.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we never get far enough to hit his thresholds where he's like, ah, we need to clean type thing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're usually hitting mine, which is interesting in the dynamic when you share a home with somebody because it's like you guys have different thresholds for things.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, how do you navigate?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is your task and this is my task, but like, can you fucking do your task right now before I lose my fucking mind?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's just it's difficult, but if I continuously do these things for other people, the cost of that is like resentfulness, frustration.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now my entire identity is being the fixer-upper or being the cleaner or like whatever.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're creating this codependent dynamic or this resentful dynamic in which I don't want.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, I feel like I kind of see it as like I have a hundred percent energy within me, but the more that I take on other people's tasks, I'm just siphoning, like you were saying, the straw, you're just siphoning out your energy.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're sitting here at the end of the day being like, wow, I had no energy for ever anything.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, because I'm literally looking around, trying to find fires to put out because you just get in the habit of being the problem solver.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think there's something about, I don't know if it's our personalities or I mean, I know not everybody's like this, but there's something of like, oh, I can do this and I can do it well.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: So just let me do it.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm even like last we had a water break uh in our house, a water line break last week, and my husband called me kind of in a panic.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally know like when there's stuff going wrong in your house, like an active water leak, your brain's not thinking clearly.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: But he was just like, I don't know what to do.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: In my brain, I'm immediately like, oh, we let's try this, let's try that, let's try these three other things.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'll call this guy, I'll do that, you know?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I immediately went there because I think that's kind of our tendency.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I kind of stopped myself.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of giving him like, oh, here's my five ideas of our things we could try, I just said, What do you think we should do?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he had a better idea than mine.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like, I think there's a, and it surprised me, you know, because I we all have that like want to control.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I it was a good reminder of like, even if that's your, even if you can do it, and even if you can do it well, and maybe even think you can do it better than the other person, you're kind of disrespecting them and disempowering them by not giving them the space to figure it out for themselves.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: And to your point, when I jump in every single time and just say, okay, here's the five things we can do, that solidifies a relationship pattern that I don't necessarily like or want more of.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of how we fall into those disco dependent patterns.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I really like that idea.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think like being able to catch it really quickly is good.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for us can-do type people, be aware that you only have so much in your jar every day.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of us really lose sight of that because it feels good to be a can-do.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Look at how smart and curious my brain is and look how helpful I am.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like the most helpful.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: All my friends think I'm so helpful.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: They come to me from and there's like an ego thing there.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like part of this is being aware.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: But then the other part for me is if I let that go unchecked for too long, then I get mad and I take it out on people and I get disconnected from what I really want and get into a low place.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a note here.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of my other tells, I think, is I uh I shared in the first episode of this season, I left a past um consulting job in this last year because it was really just starting to feel like a bad fit and out of alignment.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I I was feeling like I had to stay because I felt like I had all this responsibility.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of my backpack.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point I just started, I was telling Raya, like, I had this voice come into my head of like, you do not have to be a sacrificial lamb.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was feeling like because of my health, my husband has some health issues.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was feeling like, and there's significant health issues, I shouldn't downplay it, but I was kind of feeling like, oh my gosh, life is so serious.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: I need to take on all of this weight, I need to be in charge of everything, I need to hold all of this responsibility on my back.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was feeling like this sacrificial lamb.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And God kind of came to me, or spirit, whatever you want to say, and was just kind of like, you don't have to do this.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're picking up a lot of his stuff right now.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, what the fuck can I do about his issue?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I'm choosing to pick it up and it's not really accomplishing anything.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we all have this, maybe not we all, but I certainly have this story of like it's unloving, it's mean, but really it's an energy suck and it's sucking the life out of you, and it's really not even accomplishing anything.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just helping you and your people and your relationship stay in these like not healthy patterns.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree with you.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know how good that feels, and I think what we can do as those people is kind of um give people the space to to step up and and use their brains and do whatever the task is and then let go, right?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, say Andrew doesn't hang up his coat, you have to just let that coat lay on the ground.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have let so many balls drop in this house and I saw them, but I didn't say anything because I was just like, this is not the pattern.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's this other side of like when you hold a boundary, sometimes you have to deal with like a coat on the floor longer than you'd like, or dishes in the sink or whatever.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: But like I think over time, not reinforce reinforcing the behavior in the pattern is like the the better result there.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what's interesting is like I didn't realize how many things I was adding to my backpack or how many straws I was giving to people until like man, mine and Andrew's relationship has been like the biggest person uh like my business and Andrew's probably mine and Andrew's relationship, even more than my business.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: I did want to say business.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think I like that relationships point you made.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I've just been like, wow, it's like human relationships and business relationships, all of this.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I didn't realize how much I was taking on until I got into a relationship with him.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he was literally like numerous times, he'll be like, You do know that like you're doing this to yourself.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: You do know that you didn't have to say yes to that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You do know that you could say no.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew is very good at saying no.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew, I'm like, you want to do this?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, No.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we do get to a point where I'm like, this is really important to me.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It would mean a lot if you did this.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Okay, fine.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: But like, he's very good at being like, no, that doesn't sound good to me.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I look at him and I'm like, wow, how do I be more of him?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he's looking at me and he was like, Listen, he was like, in in the past, I've been in a relationship where we were both like me, is what he said.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, and it was awful because neither one of us wanted to leave the house or to do anything, or like had that ambition to like do more.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, he was like, I feel like you need my personality and I need yours to kind of balance this out.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: But he pointed out he was like, you do this to yourself, you didn't have to say yes to that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to say yes to this.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting that I noticed, like through him, is that he likes when I speak up.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: It makes him feel more joyful when I feel more joyful.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm like, you know what?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to watch this shitty reality TV show.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Good, I love that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I'll leave you alone, I'll go downstairs and play video games with my friends.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to enjoy yourself.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he would literally come in to make sure that I am like still enjoying that I'm doing this.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, So we're like, are you enjoying yourself?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It like makes him very happy to know that like I'm enjoying myself.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, even when we're trying to figure out what we want to eat, I always will be the sacrificial lamb.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the cook of the house.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: He just started eating vegetables like an hour ago, and I am very, very like pro-veggie and like I cook, I've been cooking and like whatever.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'll be the sacrificial lamb and be like, yeah, we can have burgers, even though like I'm really craving like an Asian dish or something.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when I speak up and I'm like, I really want to make this Asian recipe, he will literally be like, Okay, sounds good.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll figure out like my own thing, or like, yeah, I'll try that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like he likes it when I stand up for myself, which is so interesting because like if I'm playing all these stories in my head, in my head, I'm like, nope, I have to do whatever he wants and like we have to make him happy.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, where the fuck did I learn that?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which I know exactly where I learned that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like it's fascinating.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, this does play into business.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna bring that up too, where it's like, I have people, you know, the more that you grow a business, the more visibility you have.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, we love that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: The more people show up in your inbox asking you for things.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you want to be part of the summit?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you want to do this?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm launching this thing.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share it with your audience?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can I get your eyeballs on this thing?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can I get your feedback on this thing?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like, listen, sometimes I I've like very much value the relationship.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was like they've been, you know, supportive for me for so many things.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, like this is important to me, whatever.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Other things, I'm like, we don't have, I don't have the space, or we don't have that kind of relationship, or like it's not the season, it's not, it's not a good fit right now.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Business is easier for me to say no in.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Business, I'm literally just like, actually, my schedule is booked up.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't have it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you do this again in a couple months, reach out, give me a bigger heads up.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or what's been really helpful for me is I'm literally just like, hey, I don't have any, like I'm slamming over here, and like I I ain't got the time.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: But also, why do I have to give the example of like, oh, I'm too busy.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to do that.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why can't I just be like, hey, I can't?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say, hey, I won't.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: But business is easier for me.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's because I have easier reasons to not do something.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I could just say that I'm busy in my personal life.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew literally sees me all the time.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be like, hey, I'm too busy, and like I'm fucking laying there or just lying there.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've always had this mindset with business of like, I intentionally didn't go into the medical field because I do not want anything to feel like life or death, right?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like my job is not keeping anybody alive.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I do have clients that are acting like a situation is life and death, it's a lot easier for me to pull out of that and be like, nah, nah, not my monkey, right?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: But like, um, what is that?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, not my circus, not my monkeys.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: In real life, though, if it is your loved one, you know, that is a lot harder to separate those kind of feelings and emotions.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that could be a piece of it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I will point out, like, one example that's coming up business related for me is when you have a client that has an emergency and they try to bring it to you.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're texting, I'm thinking about, you know, they're texting you at eight o'clock at night because some fire has happened.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: And or they drop the ball on some deadline, and now they're trying to like get you to come in and maybe not go out on a date night because they've had this emergency and oh my gosh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that kind of stuff can get to me, especially if I value the relationship.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's something about like letting people deal with their own consequences and like, hey, I can see a lot of proactive things were missed here.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really fair for you to now be dumping this emergency on me when there was a lot of steps you could have taken last week to avoid this?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: So clients I've noticed will get into kind of emergency mindset with me and kind of try to dump it on me because I'm a can-do type person.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had to be pretty clear about like, hey, this is your fire, not my fire.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm sorry, that sucks.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and maybe on Monday morning I'd be happy to kind of come in here and talk to you about hourly rate, but like I'm not taking my Saturday night and like dealing with your messes.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of a situation, like, um, I I had it, I dealt with that a lot in the beginning of my business.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was because I was doing website design.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Where like I don't know what it is.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: 100% website design bias steals life or death, even though it is never, but it just feels high stakes.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was website design where it was like it feels so much more intense.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also this is why, okay, so like I my brother, one of his good friends, is like a very successful business owner.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when I first got into business, he used to create websites back in the day.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: He no longer does, but he would tell me, Hey, you need to start offering hosting because you're doing websites, you got to start offering hosting.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can make a killing just like on recurring revenue, like I used to do it, used to be so good.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And literally I refuse because I was like, I, you know what my personal version of hell is?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Clients texting me on a Saturday at 11 p.m.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: telling me that their website is down.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what my favorite line is?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Check in with your hosting company.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want to be that hosting company.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am not explaining DNS records.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am not connecting your email.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: I am just the website girly on the front end.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am not the back end.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's connect all of this bullshit.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I had clients where they needed to because they scheduled out their launch like with very little time.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: They needed their website to be launched by 10 p.m.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: on a Friday in the middle of the summer.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: This was like August, 10 p.m.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: on a Friday.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to be at a campfire with my friends, roasting marshmallows, being like a campfire girl.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm over here trying to help this brand launch their website when I was just like, oh my, but I was so new to business that I was like, this is what you do.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you do when you own the business.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Me now, I would have been like, what a shitty launch day you picked.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this is what you do to launch the business mindset is kind of like that's what people think you have to do, you know?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're up until God knows when, and we're back here and we're we're hustling.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like stock market, bro.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're a finer.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, look at we're working all weekend long.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Look at how hard we're working.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't buy into that, like, at all.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm literally like now me would have never gotten myself into that situation.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've even had like some of those clients reach back out and they're like, hey, I have a new project.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, nope, don't do that no more.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you have anybody you can refer me to?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, I don't, because I'm not referring like an emergency client to anybody in this space.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, no, dude.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing, you've always been very good or aware, and I think this just kind of comes through client work of what you are crystal fucking clear on what you do and what you don't do.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you take on a client one time that needs it is an emergency client or like needs that ongoing hand holding, you learn really quick.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, part of this boundary work is being aware of your triggers and what you are available for and your sucks and uh drains and what fills you up because you've always been very good about like, nope, this is the container where it's not ongoing because that doesn't light me up, right?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so this gets back to that idea of how important want is and being connected with like what you do and what you don't do.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then from that place, it's really easy to set boundaries.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's maybe why business is a little bit clearer because we've been burned.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: You start to meet the same clients over and over and over again, and you can kind of get a sense.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think maybe business is just a bit less emotional.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit more like there's I've had this data point before, I know what this is like.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um like this is included in the package.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: You signed a contract in my own.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have friends signing contracts about what my friendship means to them.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you this means that once a month we meet for coffee on a Saturday at 8 a.m.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: sign here?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're so right.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's so funny.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I you know the gist of all of this, I keep writing this down and not saying it, but it's like you just have to choose yourself.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like choose your fucking self over and over and over again.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um even on the even on the quiet levels, like internally, choose yourself.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not being like, hey, everybody, I'm choosing myself, and like making like a huge declaration about it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what it has to look like.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think quietly choosing yourself and like internally, like the relationship that you have with yourself and prioritizing that.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that then translates to the outer world.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's way fucking easier to build a boundary with my aunt that I don't want to see when like I'm choosing myself and I'm like, nah, she just like fucking sucks.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like when I'm choosing myself and clear on like what I'm willing to do or not willing to do, it makes the outer decision making more cut and dry.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm reminded of I did a we had a guest, Melinda Livesy on a few seasons ago, and I did a book club with her earlier this year, and I'm gonna have to ask her what the book name is.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm blanket on it now.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have it in the show notes.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: But the whole idea was how are you holding boundaries with yourself?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, you know, like are you telling yourself every day you want to get up and write, do like three minutes of open writing, and then you don't?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what signal is that giving to yourself?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are are you saying I respect myself and I'm gonna show up for the commitments and I made to myself?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you communicating like, oh, what I commit to isn't really that important?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Showing up for myself isn't really that important.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, like at the end of the day, I do think you're right.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's something really powerful to are you holding yourself to certain standards?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: What boundaries do you want to have with yourself?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then are you when you show up for those on a day-to-day basis, you start to feel really good.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: You start to tell yourself, hey, I am worthy of respect.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: I respect myself, I show up for myself, and these are the good things that happen.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden you can get to this place of like, okay, and now how I here's how I hold those boundaries externally, right?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because what's inside is outside, and vice versa.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because I'm just thinking about myself and like how I operate.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I love being busy until I don't like being busy.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I don't know the own threshold that I have.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like uh the example that I have, right?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, like yesterday, I was getting so lit up by the idea of running errands.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I get to listen to Christmas music in the car, I'm gonna have like a nice little hot coffee, I'm gonna pop in and out of these stores, whatever.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm having myself a time until I'm at the last stop and I'm like, I need to get home immediately because this is no longer fun for me.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if Andrew would have messaged me, hey, can you stop at the grocery store and pick up, I don't know why plums came to mind.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: He would never ask me to buy plums, but like, can you stop at the grocery store and like get plums?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I literally would be like annoyed.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like with me, I feel like it's interesting, like finding that boundary within yourself is interesting because you do have a threshold of like what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the awareness that I've developed within myself, I'm kind of it's easier for me to feel when I'm like, oh, my threshold, I only got 20% left.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: I better get home before I want to light everybody on fire.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know why I keep saying that, but that's just the visual that comes to mind.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like knowing when too much is too much for you in the moment, because this isn't something that you can set on the calendar and be like, I can only do three tasks per day that only take about 30 minutes.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, some days, depending where I am in my cycle, I am the energizer bunny and I am loving it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am feeding off of my own energy.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: And other times I'm literally like, if anybody asks me to do anything, I just want to be horizontal.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like there is also no way to strategize it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like you're saying, like deepening and developing and strengthening that muscle to check in with yourself consistently and take personal responsibility about the relationship that you have with yourself, and which is then creating the relationships that you have with other people.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Back to that book of like most of our suffering is created through interpersonal relationships.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like taking personal responsibility for that, and then developing the awareness.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I like what you said there at the end.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whenever we talk about like nervous system regulation, there's this idea of like you can kind of it goes up and down, you can get to a really high point or a really low point, but the goal is to stay in the middle.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think by getting to know yourself, setting boundaries with yourself, personal reflection, stillness, all the things we talk about on this podcast, self-awareness, you can get a better sense.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: For me, all of my bad decisions happen when I am either about to go too high or about to go too low, and I kind of ignored the warning signs.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I could have said, Hey, I'm feeling overwhelmed.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my social battery is feeling low.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: I need to go sit in a dark room for 30 minutes.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not stopping and getting you plums from for me.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes I just need to lay on the floor.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been like that.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just, if I get overwhelmed, like laying on the floor calms me down, or getting out on the ground outside is really nice.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: But like I getting better at realizing, and if you're low, you know, for me, just before this podcast, I hopped on my bike and I did a little exercise to move.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: But like knowing where you're at on that nervous system scale, and then knowing when you're kind of like ding, ding, ding, ding, warning sign is getting a little bit louder.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: That I really think is the skill for all of this.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because you life is gonna fucking test you.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're gonna set intentions around this, and then life's gonna that's what Ryan I was laughing about.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, life is always throwing opportunities to set boundaries or hold boundaries, right?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're for women, especially, I think some days I'm on top of the world, some days I got nothing.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think you have to be able to check in with you that day because I can't accomplish a hundred things two weeks ago and then today zero, and that's just like the way it is.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, there's no shame there, but I think just being aware of you and your patterns and how you work, and then communicate for what you need.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: If your social battery is low, don't go to the party.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've right now in holiday season, you guys, I am not a Mariah where I'm a are you would you call yourself extroverted?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always have trouble with this.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I'm an extroverted introvert because like if the definition is based on how you recharge, I recharge alone.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: But like remember when we went on that retreat, like in Texas, it's like everybody was like hanging out, social, whatever, and I was like, I need to go be a lone by and like lock myself in the room.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like I've been on retreats, and I'm literally like, I need to spend 20 minutes by myself.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's the Sag rising that people assume that I'm just a fire sign all of the time.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like my son and my moon are very watery, and it's like I need to just like decompress alone.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: So an extroverted introvert, maybe an introverted extrovert?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Imbivert, I think is the there's like a middle.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: I relate to that too, where like in the right social situations, I can leave fucking.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've told you guys, like um I bartended this past summer and I left.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, like felt like I had taken drugs.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was so high.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like at certain parties where the conversation is good.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love being social.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the conversation is good.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've told this story on the podcast before.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: The one this is like two years ago, I ended up staying out.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't stay out past like literally 10:30 anymore.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but back in the day, bars close in Buffalo at 4, 4 a.m.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I wouldn't get home until 5:30 because you obviously have to stop and get a chicken finger sub before you come home.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: But like two years ago, I was out until five in the morning.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Andrew was like, What the are you cheating on me?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the fuck are you doing?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, I stopped drinking at 10:30.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was up until five in the morning having deep conversations and reading people's human design charts.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I looked and the sun was coming up and it's 5 a.m.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I need to go home and sleep.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: But like the deep conversations will keep me going for probably like 72 hours without sleeping.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem is those situations, for me at least, are few and far between.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Normally, social gatherings are pretty draining.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have a very large family.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's a million things to go to this time of year.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have, I have to be very aware of my social battery.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I at every holiday season, I've had to tell family no, it's painful, but I never ever regret it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I force myself, if I'm at zero and I force myself to go out and do those things, I'm no fun.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm no fun to be around there.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: It affects me the next day.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm exhausted, I get sick.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like literally, I know that when I am not listening to my cues that my body gives me, like physically, my body's gonna react.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: So just if you need extra permission this holiday season, like if you don't go to the fourth fucking Thanksgiving, like it's okay.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's really all right.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: Take some time for yourself.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: Your family's gonna be disappointed, and that's wonderful.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: That just means they love you and they love it when you're around.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: But like, if you need time for you, like don't try to push past those signals because I think that's where bad stuff happens.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's the true cost.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because like if you're just giving your energy out to everybody else, you're not gonna have any left for yourself.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's simplistic, right?
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of it, it's so simplistic.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, logically that makes sense, but for some reason, dude, when family gets involved, it's just everything goes out the window and you're just like, whatever you need.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, I can't play that game anymore.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I notice it so well with Andrew.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: If I force him to do something that like he 100% does not want to do, he's miserable.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm just like, I would have had a better time by my damn self.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like seeing it on such a micro level has been really healing.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like, if you notice, notice, like, if you're always the one that's available, if you're always the one saying yes, notice when people say no.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like in social situations, it's like, oh, your friend's having a party, you know, one of your friends said no, your friend's not there.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, of course you miss them, but are you sitting there and you're like, wow, Janet's not here and she can go fuck up.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're literally just like, oh shit, she had something to do.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, oh, she couldn't make it.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wish she was here.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's ever like, oh my God.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, unless you're in a situation where like you're around assholes.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: But like, if you're not around assholes, then I feel like everybody's really understanding.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: People are busy.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're adults.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't high school anymore where it's like our only job was to like go to school and like, I don't know, like play lacrosse or something like that.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we have other things to do.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: People have families.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like just reminding yourself that like you would give yourself, you like give your friend grace, give your brother grace if they didn't show up.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if they're the one bailing every single time, that's different.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the nuance comes in.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I don't know, just that's really helpful for me to remember that.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if somebody didn't show up, I'm not gonna be mad at them.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they're probably like doing what they need to do, right?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I this is a really fun conversation.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've kind of like taken it full circle.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any other final thoughts or anything you wanted to share before we wrap up?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think just know that like we enjoy having these conversations and kind of just like taking apart ideas and topics from different perspectives.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, like hopefully this makes you feel like you're not alone when you're trying to navigate this shit and like we're all dealing with the little things, we're dealing with the big things, with the big boundaries, the little boundaries, the adding up boundaries.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody's in the sauce when it comes to this stuff.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all really trying to like develop that relationship that we have with ourselves because that essentially like makes the world a better place.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: The world is not a great place if everybody's out here fucking people pleasing and like giving away our energy and just like whatever.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're better when we're like aligned and supportive and compassionate to ourselves first, and then the cup overfloweth.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's how the world just becomes a better place.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, just know that like we're all in it together.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that we've talked about um titles being so important.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: We had a conversation earlier this week.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when you said the title of that book, um The Courage to Be Disliked, that was really all I needed to hear about it.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: I really I'll call myself like a recovering people pleaser.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: I do think that is like a tendency that I have that I'm constantly trying to level up and do better about.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would encourage you, if you are like me and Mariah that like struggle with people pleasing, play around with the idea of like being a little bit more disliked.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I think like what I've noticed is when I think I'm being mean or like when I'm trying to get uh I'm just not trying to get people to like me all the time, usually they like me more.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like what to your point earlier, Mariah, like when I stand up for myself, when I advocate for myself, usually that gives people joy from a neutral place.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think I have really been empowered by trying to drop any story I have around what will they think about this?
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_02: Will this make this a will they get mad?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: Will they get unhappy?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: It they may, right?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's on them.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: And remembering that, like their feelings are on them, that's their responsibility.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to pick any of it up.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing that in the long run, when I am communicating for myself and choosing myself from a healthy, neutral place, that is going to benefit us both is a really strong place to be.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I know all this stuff may sound like Mariah was saying, like a little simple and basic, but I do think like for those of us that have people pleasing patterns, play around with being a little mean.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've sent Mariah funny memes before where it's like a Pisces sets a boundary, and I feel like I'm like, fuck you, motherfucker.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the way it comes off is more like, um, if you could please not call me after 9 p.m., that would be great, you know?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of us we think we're being mean and really it's nothing, you know?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and so test that.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do something that you may make somebody mad and see how it feels.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how you build trust in this process is through those little reps, but play around with being disliked and see how it goes.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: You'll I think you might like it.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like try first with people that you see set healthy boundaries themselves.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, if somebody were to set a boundary with me, I feel like there's a much better chance that I'm going to respect it than hypothetically somebody trying to set a boundary with my father, who is not very emotionally aware of anything besides himself.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of like if you're testing this stuff out, test it with a friend who like is emotionally safe and like can hold that and be like, okay, cool.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like emotionally aware people are less likely to like attack you because like they see it, they can understand it.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if that's helpful for somebody, like it's way easier for me to set a boundary with like Kaylee that we've had on the podcast before.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's my friend in real life.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like she's messaged me before and she was like, listen, I know that we have dinner plans tomorrow, but like I can't make it.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, cool, love that for you.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: You let me know when you're available and we'll reschedule.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to reschedule things for her.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, girl, I am losing my fucking marbles over here.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Okay, yeah, no problem.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Also, do you need to talk about it?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's so helpful.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, I'm supported, regardless if like I, you know, choose to choose myself or not.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like, last story, I promise, but like I was on a retreat during like one of the God, like I was maybe three years in business.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: This retreat was not really a good fit for me in terms of like emotion-wise, I was not open to a bunch of emotions and like seeing everybody in their emotions.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what this retreat ended up being was everybody kind of being very emotional.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could not hold it.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think it was a good fit.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: But what I learned from that is like we were all staying in a house with probably 12 women in business and online business, and there was a park across the street.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a lunch break for the retreat, like in between hot seat sessions and stuff.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what I did is I packed up lunch in like a Ziploc bag or in like a Tupperware thing, brought my yoga mat and a book, and walked across the street to have lunch by myself on a yoga mat at the park.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was like, no big deal.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, who gives a f?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing whatever I want to do.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: So then I did that the next day too.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I just enjoy it.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a refresh, like I said, recharging alone.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want to be in more conversations right now.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be in conversation with myself.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so at the very end of the retreat, uh people, we went around the room and everybody was like, What's the one thing that you learned from somebody else?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: Three different people out of 12.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: One of them started crying.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, just seeing Mariah choose herself and like she packed up her lunch and went to the park.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that I could do that.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that I could choose myself and like do whatever I needed to do.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like her being an example of like just doing what she needs to do for her was like very eye-opening.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, dude, what?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, like that was like a huge eye-opener for me to remember that, like, in different seasons, I feel like it's harder than others.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was easy for me because I wasn't in a relationship.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't used, I was used to being independent.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wasn't, I didn't have like a lot of like situations where I could choose other people over myself.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just really, really interesting how you choosing yourself can be a really good example for other people of a radical act.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: Wild.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of us are just like herded around like cattle for most of our lives.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do this, go here, do that.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you see, look at school.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: School, so of course, when you see somebody where it's like this is the planned activity, and someone else is going off and doing their own thing, I can do that.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it doesn't even cross a lot of people's minds because we're just so in that zone and how liberating and freeing it is.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like you, or I'm like, oh, I need some quiet time, right?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's cool.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great place to end of like when you do this, you could be setting an example for other people and showing them what's possible for them to do.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that for me, it's always easier to connect with like that kind of external thing.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I love that.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, we hope that you guys enjoyed this episode.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're ready to close this bad boy down.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: So remember, friends, that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want, follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next episode.