Latest / Best of Business / Cathy Hendry: Strategic Pay managing director on the results from the latest Directors' Fees Survey

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Cathy Hendry: Strategic Pay managing director on the results from the latest Directors' Fees Survey · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow
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  Speaker 2: We need to talk about the gender pay gap, and no,
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  Speaker 2: not in the way that you think we're about to
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: talk about the gender pay gap. In a surprise to us,
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  Speaker 2: the latest survey of New Zealand company directors shows that
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  Speaker 2: female directors are in fact earning more than their male counterparts.
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  Speaker 2: Kathy Henry is Strategic Pays Managing Director. They've done the
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  Speaker 2: survey and is with us. Now, Hey, Kathy, hi, there
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  Speaker 2: were you surprised by this? Ah?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we were surprised we're earning more. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I mean it was off. It does off a boss
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  Speaker 3: backdrop of sort of quite an underrepresentation. So you know,
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  Speaker 3: but it's good to see in the private sector at
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  Speaker 3: least that you know, they are earning a bit more.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of surprised that at least one
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  Speaker 2: of the categories, female non executive directors rather than chairs
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  Speaker 2: obviously earn seventeen percent more in their fees. How on,
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  Speaker 2: what's going on?
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  Speaker 3: Right? Well, so when we actually looked at it, it's
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  Speaker 3: to do with where the which sort of boards the
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  Speaker 3: woman are sitting on. So what we're seeing it's quite
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  Speaker 3: a small sample around just sort of over three hundred
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  Speaker 3: or three hundred and ninety two directorships. And what we're
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  Speaker 3: seeing is that while they're the women aren't making up
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  Speaker 3: much of a much of the sample, they're sitting on
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  Speaker 3: the large more likely to be sitting on the large
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  Speaker 3: listed orgs, and that they pay a lot more. And
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  Speaker 3: so that's actually what's driving those gaps that we're seeing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, is this actually what we want? Like do
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  Speaker 2: we actually want do we want women to be paid
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  Speaker 2: significantly more than men or do we actually want it
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  Speaker 2: to end up kind of roughly the same.
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  Speaker 3: Well, they're going to be game, Yeah, we do. We
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  Speaker 3: want them We want fear paid, don't We want to
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  Speaker 3: see male and females being paid fairly for the work
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  Speaker 3: we're doing. And so I think in this instance, though,
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  Speaker 3: what we're seeing is when they're sitting on the on
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  Speaker 3: the board with their male counterparts are getting paid the same.
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  Speaker 3: But it's more when you look across the whole sample
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  Speaker 3: of directors and where the women are sitting compared to
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  Speaker 3: the whole sample of directors across board businesses, that's when
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  Speaker 3: we've seen that.
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  Speaker 2: Gap, right, Okay, but yeah, so, I mean this just
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  Speaker 2: proves doesn't this show up the fact that we are
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  Speaker 2: really not comparing apples with apples where whether we're comparing
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  Speaker 2: it in order to show that women are being paid
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  Speaker 2: more or comparing it to show that women are being
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  Speaker 2: paid less stats Telfords, don't they?
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  Speaker 1: Oh?
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  Speaker 3: I know, I mean I don't think so. You know,
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  Speaker 3: when we actually look at and when you look at
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  Speaker 3: pay gaps across we've got a really large database and
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  Speaker 3: when we look we can see you know, similar size roles,
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  Speaker 3: and we can see gaps between male and female pay
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  Speaker 3: there as well. So when you are looking apples for apples, yes,
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  Speaker 3: the big headlines in this instance, we're looking across the
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  Speaker 3: whole sample. But you know, and so that that's going
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  Speaker 3: to be giving us more dramatic tick gaps, which is,
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  Speaker 3: you know, which is newsworthy. But you know, when you
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  Speaker 3: actually start breaking it down and looking at the samples,
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  Speaker 3: you know you're still seeing time and time again that
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  Speaker 3: women are getting paid less than their male counterparts.
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  Speaker 2: But aren't these women on these listed companies being paid
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  Speaker 2: the same as their male counterparts on the listed companies?
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  Speaker 2: Yes they are, Yes, are being paid the same.
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  Speaker 3: So the woman that so I suppose the first question
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  Speaker 3: is why we only see such a really small proportion
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  Speaker 3: of women getting into these larger listed alls. Why you know,
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  Speaker 3: why are we only seeing sort of one or two
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  Speaker 3: represented on large listed boards versus their male counterparts when
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  Speaker 3: we've got you know, equal representation of women and men
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  Speaker 3: and and you know being born and entering into the workforce,
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  Speaker 3: and also women being are actually in New Zealand are
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  Speaker 3: actually often more more likely to be better each Then
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  Speaker 3: why do you think it is? I think I think
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  Speaker 3: the issue is is that we're just not seeing the
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  Speaker 3: same representation at senior levels either, and so it's what
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  Speaker 3: it's flowing through. I mean, on the positive, it's.
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  Speaker 2: Still the case, Kathy, Or is it changing?
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  Speaker 3: Is that it's changing? It is changing. Yeah, it's brilliant
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  Speaker 3: to say. I mean even in the director's sample, like
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  Speaker 3: back in twenty fourteen, you know, women only made up
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  Speaker 3: fourteen percent of chairs in the sample and now they're
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  Speaker 3: up at twenty eight.
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  Speaker 2: Well, can I answer that question for you?
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  Speaker 1: Then?
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  Speaker 2: Maybe is it possible that the reason that we have
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  Speaker 2: such such small representation of women on these these very
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  Speaker 2: very in these very very senior levels on boards is
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  Speaker 2: because we haven't for a long time seen women represented
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  Speaker 2: at the executive levels of businesses, right, and so you
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  Speaker 2: have to give women some years to get some experience
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  Speaker 2: there in order to then feed through to the board level.
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  Speaker 2: So it will happen. You just need to give it
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  Speaker 2: a bit.
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  Speaker 3: Of till it will happen. Corrects correct, Yeah, absolutely, And
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  Speaker 3: I mean the positives here is that you're seeing when
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  Speaker 3: they are getting on the boards, they are getting into
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  Speaker 3: these larger listed orcs too, which is great.
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  Speaker 2: Kathy, Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 2: Kathy Henry, managing director at Strategic.
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