Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Jonathan Mason, Chief Clinical Officer at Select Dental Management LLC

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Jonathan Mason, Chief Clinical Officer at Select Dental Management LLC · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

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  This is s Hatton with the Becker's Dental O Podcast.
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  I'm thrilled to be joined today by Jonathan Mason,
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  chief Clinical Officer at Select Dental Management. Jonathan,
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  thank you so much for being here today.
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  You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
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  Great. Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your background?
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  Yeah. Um, so yeah, my name's John Mason. Um, I'm a general dentist. I have,
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  I graduated dental school in 2006, um,
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  was in private practice in Connecticut with my father for eight years,
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  and then bought a private practice my own in Manchester,
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  Vermont about seven and a half years ago. Um, two years into that journey,
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  after greatly improving my own practice,
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  I decided to partner with a childhood friend of mine, Elliot Zabel,
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  who is our ceo o and we co-founded Select Dental Management together, um,
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  a a partnership model Dsso, where, you know,
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  our goal was really to partner with like-minded growth-oriented
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  dentists who were really running great practices, um, that wanted to continue,
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  you know, to have a value add partner, continue to grow their practice, um,
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  let us help them not only grow the practice that they're in,
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  but also transition into younger dentists, um, you know, practice growth,
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  whether it's, you know, adding into operatories, adding up procedures, um,
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  whatever it may be. Um, and as a partnership model, we really developed, uh,
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  individual kind of, you know,
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  treatment plans for each office that we partner with. Um,
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  we are now about five years into our journey.
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  We have 40 practices and that we, you know, that we are partnered with. Um,
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  and, you know, it continues to, to be going great. Um, I serve now, you know,
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  not only the co-founder, but I serve as the chief clinical officer and, um,
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  overseeing all of the, the, you know, the entire clinical entity. Um, you know,
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  whether it's doctors, whether it's hygienists, um,
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  people on our leadership team,
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  and really making sure that we are instituting the standard of care within all
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  of our practices and helping to maximize opportunities within each one of our
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  practices throughout our portfolio.
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  Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. And I know you mentioned Elliot. He's great. Um,
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  I'm wondering, what was it, what's it like working with your childhood friend?
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  It's pretty, it is been pretty fun. Um,
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  especially a childhood friend that did not know anything about dentistry, uh,
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  to start with.
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  And I know you guys have talked to him and many people listening to this.
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  I've also talked to him. He knows a lot about dentistry,
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  especially about the business of dentistry and running and,
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  and running dental practices. Um,
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  he will tell you I'm not the most business oriented dentist.
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  I am a wet figure dentist that really has just was taught by my dad just to
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  kind of treat patients right and successful follow from there. I'd love to,
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  I'd love getting you new skills, and that's really been the basis of my success.
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  And, um, it's been really fun having a friend that's really finance oriented,
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  um, you know, into the numbers, seeing how trends work and really understanding,
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  I guess, you know,
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  you can look back on the numbers in my practice and see how successful it's
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  been, but also how we can help drive growth, um, in our other practices. Um,
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  but it's been good, you know, it's really good having a childhood friend.
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  We've actually known each other since kindergarten, um,
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  and having a childhood friend that, um, you know, I can be honest with,
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  I can be open with . Um, I'm not worried, you know,
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  he offends me all the time. I offend him all the time.
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  Having that kind of relationship is really impactful in terms of growth and be,
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  you know, being able to be honest with each other about what we're doing. Um,
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  you know, we do live kind of far away. We live a few states away,
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  so I don't see him as much, but obviously my calls him, um,
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  constantly throughout the week. So, um, it's been great. It's been a,
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  it's been a really, it's been a really fun journey and, uh, yeah, hopefully,
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  you know, it's, we have,
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  we haven't run into too many issues between us cause we really tend to serve
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  slightly different things, but I,
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  he's learned so much about dentistry and really understands what it takes to,
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  to, you know, to run a successful practice.
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  That's awesome. I think, I think we all need a friendship like that ,
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  so.
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  Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's, it's, it's been great.
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  Yeah. , so diving into my first question here,
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  what are the biggest issues you're following in dental today?
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  You know, I think the big, I mean the biggest issue, the stuff that's come,
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  come around that,
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  that every is on everyone's radar is the economy and is the bank's lending,
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  I mean, when it really comes to, to the dsso space and,
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  and acquiring practices, the, the amount of,
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  of change within the lending space, um, increased rates, um,
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  decreased leverage, leverage amounts, that's really, you know, in my opinion,
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  affected the, the outward growth that, um,
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  that we're able to do in terms of acquisitions and things like that.
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  So I don't know what the future's gonna be. I mean, there's one aspect of the,
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  of, of the financial issue, which is what I just mentioned.
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  And the other aspect is are the, you know,
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  are the patients gonna start closing up their, you know, their pocket books?
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  Are they gonna stop spending on, you know, back in two,
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  I came into dentistry back in 2008, which was, you know,
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  the great recession and there was a lot of,
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  of expenditures that people were not doing right. Cosmetic cases, ortho,
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  stuff like that. Really elective procedures when were,
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  were gone for four or five years in dentistry. Um,
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  and I was right in the beginning of my career as I was growing. Um,
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  and you know, there, I,
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  we have not seen that come to fruition within our practices.
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  We've been at multiple meetings and other groups are not seeing it as well,
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  but obviously that that isn't big concern that's on a horizon.
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  So I think for us, in order to mitigate that risk at the practice level,
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  really getting back to basics, right?
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  Getting back to preventative dentistry stuff that we're, we're sort of a mix.
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  We have a lot of full for full fee for service practices minus as well.
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  So not as in tuned into insurances,
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  but we have plenty of practices that have our, you know,
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  in network with a lot of PPOs. But stuff that, you know,
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  even the insurance covers, you know, proper radiographs, fluoride sealants,
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  preventative measures, um,
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  really getting patients on board with the kind of dentistry that,
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  that we're tr that we're trying to, um,
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  promote throughout our practices is our way of kind of hedging that and making
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  sure that, um, you know, that these type of,
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  that whatever's gonna happen in the financial world,
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  whatever people spending is gonna be, will hopefully not, you know,
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  hit us as hard.
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  But obviously that's something that I think we're all concerned about,
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  but we really haven't seen it happen right now.
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  And I think we just had our best first quarter ever in the history of the
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  company. I know in my own practice, um, I had my best first quarter ever.
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  And so the, we're kind of waiting for that shooter drop, but it hasn't yet.
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  And so, um,
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  really getting all of our practices on board and maintaining all this preventive
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  care for patients, getting things early before they become much,
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  much bigger procedures and,
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  and being able to discuss that with patients is how we're, you know,
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  how we're approaching, um, you know, our dentistry and our practices right now.
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  Fantastic. And congratulations on, uh,
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  for both you and select for having your best, uh, Q1 ever.
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  Yeah, thanks. It's kind of, it's, it's kind of been, it's, it's, it's been nice.
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  It's been a good, good, good first start of the year, so hopefully we can,
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  we can continue, continue to maintain it.
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  Well, that's great. Thank you. My next question is,
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  what are you most excited about and what makes you nervous?
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  So, I mean, I think the excitement, I'm really,
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  really big into digital dentistry. Um,
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  and I've not taken pretty much not taken a analog impression in
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  about 10 years. So I have multiple scanners in my practice.
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  We are really big on putting iTeros and other scanners into practices depending
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  on what the practices do they do. Invisalign, Xero, if they don't,
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  we we'll use a, a competiting, um, scanner that I feel, you know,
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  might be better for, for restorative work.
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  But really getting into the digital workflow is the most exciting thing for me.
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  And I know a lot of DSOs are doing it. They've put in, you know, some,
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  some are milling in the offices, some aren't milling in the offices. Um,
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  but having that really changes the patient experience. And so we've got, we're,
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  we've been piloting, um, artificial intelligence on x-rays,
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  I think from a dsso space that, that is, to me, that is really,
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  really exciting to get people on board. We have 12 practices doing it right now.
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  I've been using it for about six months. Um, I think as, as we grow and we have,
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  we have about 150 clinicians in our network,
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  being able to really standardize what's being done, what doctors are seeing, um,
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  it's busy during the day. Many of, you know, you're checking patients, you,
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  you know, I have 15, 20 patients in my schedule.
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  I'm checking 15 to 20 hygiene patients today. There's a lot going on.
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  Having that AI, being able to help us read the x-rays,
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  being able to confirm what we're seeing or not seeing, um,
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  is there as well as identifying opportunities for us to be able to treat. Um,
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  I think it's really, really exciting. And I think that, um,
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  there's a lot of underdiagnosed care, um, that's going on,
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  and I think that that's gonna help to solve that. And really, again,
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  cre being able to treat things while it's small,
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  the AI seems to pick up on a lot of smaller things.
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  And I've gone into a lot of cavities and we've taken a look at patient's perio,
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  and they're there. I really am trusting the, the computer, um,
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  as well as verifying on, on my own, um, imaging system. Um, but for me,
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  that's been really, really effective.
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  And I think getting after things when they're smaller is gonna really help the
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  patient care that we're delivering.
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  As well as looking at it from a more centralized DSO space,
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  being able to standardize slash regularly and also kind of audit at the practice
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  levels about what our doctors are seeing and what they're doing to make sure
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  that, that they're doing the right work. And so for me, that's,
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  that's the kind of most, that's the most exciting thing. Um, digital dentistry,
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  everybody, you know, is here, especially with the scanners and, and, you know,
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  and crowns and bridges and everything like that. Being able to scan for, um,
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  as well as the, um, as well as the, uh,
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  the patient experience. Something like Ontario really, you know,
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  rather than taking all these photographs, which used to take a quick scan,
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  patients are wowed by it. They love it, they love seeing their teeth and,
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  you know, it generates a lot of questions from them about different issues,
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  especially occlusal issues. Um, a ton of post covid,
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  just a ton of bism and occlusal issues and broken teeth, um,
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  that it's slowed down a little bit, but we're still, we're still seeing, um,
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  a lot of that, um, in terms of what I'm, what I'm worried about,
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  concerned about. Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, I think that,
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  um, I don't have too many worries right now. I think we've really established a,
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  a really great program, um, in terms, you know, for our doctors and,
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  and create a really good reputation. Um, but being able to, I think it's really,
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  really hard in order to properly ramp younger doctors into doing the kind,
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  you know, becoming the dentist that they wanna become. Um, you know,
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  getting them the proper training, getting them the proper ce, um, you know,
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  being able as a company to get them to where they wanna be, where they wanna be,
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  super gps. Um, you know, that's always kind of on my mind and that's,
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  they're very, very difficult in my opinion to develop that program, um,
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  because each doctor is so individual. So it's always that,
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  that to me is always one of the bigger things that we knock our heads against.
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  So how do we develop a great program for training our dentist,
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  getting them up to speed on procedures they wanna do, what companies we,
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  we can partner with to help us do that? Um, and so, you know,
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  that's always kind of at the, at the back of my mind, always,
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  always a concern of mine. Um, you know, trying to recruit,
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  trying to hire a younger dentist and, you know,
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  really be able to put them through,
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  through a great program to get them the training, um, that they need.
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  I'm, I'm curious, what do you think is,
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  is holding those young dentists back from, from reaching, um, that,
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  that growth potential that you're talking about?
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  I honestly think it's a little bit of a mindset. Um, there's, we worked hard,
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  I worked really, really hard for, I still worked hard, but, you know,
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  five to 10 years. It took a lot, you know, you know, the amount of, um,
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  the amount of hours, the amount of, you know, if you talk to the older dentist,
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  how much they worked the first five to 10 years outta practice, um, you know,
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  people see successful dentists, they see them working three, three days a week,
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  three and a half days a week. And I just think it's, it's, it's an expectation.
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  You can't be there when you're first a dentist. You need to work harder.
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  I don't believe in dentists working five days a week,
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  but maybe four and a half cuz you will burn out. But it takes a lot of effort,
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  it takes a lot of time.
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  You can't come outta dental school and be somebody that's, you know,
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  placing implants, restoring him, doing full mouth rehabs, doing all these,
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  all these constructive things. It takes a while to get there.
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  It takes five years, in my opinion, um, in order to get to,
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  to a point where you're comfortable and a ton of continued education.
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  And I think that that expectation that I'm realistic about what to expect,
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  and I think that there might be unrealistic expectations about where somebody
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  can get coming right out of school. Um, it takes a long time. You're working on,
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  on patients.
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  You're working on patients that don't necessarily love coming to the dentist.
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  Um, and so it takes a lot of patience. It takes diagnosing,
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  takes talking to people. Some of the bigger cases I've ever done.
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  I think I started talking with patients five years before I ever did 'em.
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  We were just talking about it, what's possible, right?
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  These patients aren't gonna say yes on the first day to a lot of things,
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  but understanding and keep on, you know,
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  discussing with them what the benefits are gonna be, um, and putting, you know,
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  the doctors need to put themselves through continuing education and it's a lot.
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  I I used to do a hundred, 150 hours a year of ce, um, went to spear, um,
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  did all sorts of conferences and, you know, that commitment to,
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  to growing and realizing it's gonna take five years, I think is important.
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  And I don't necessarily,
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  there are very few younger doctors that I see that are
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  like that to me understand that, um, that importance. I just had a,
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  a discussion with one of our young associates today,
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  and he went through kind of an implant, uh,
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  placement process that we did two years ago.
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  We did a lot of CE and we did a hands-on thing and he wasn't ready.
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  He was realistic. He's been working on his restorative, getting his speed up,
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  being more comfortable dealing with patients.
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  And he called me to this morning and he was like, Hey,
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  I'm ready to go start down this implant pathway and we're gonna put him through
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  another course. But it took him two years in order to get that. And I really,
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  I actually really, really appreciate that he was,
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  realized that he wasn't ready to get there yet and had the realistic
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  expectations of how long it'd taken to, to get those additive skills, um,
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  you know, under his, under his balance into his clinical repertoire.
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  Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. My last question for you is,
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  what will the most effective healthcare leaders need to be successful in the
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  next two to three years?
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  I mean, it comes, it comes down to to to really, you know, you know,
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  similar things. Um, one is gonna be really good financial partners. Um,
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  I think as we grow, having, having people to, to um,
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  understand, you know, having financial,
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  financial partners to really understand what the growth potential needs are
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  going to be and ones that want, want to go through that, um,
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  I think it's gonna take a lot of patience. So, um, you know,
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  one thing as the economy, we don't know what the economy's gonna do,
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  but if it does go down, then it's gonna be really important to,
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  to go within the practices and start really developing each practice.
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  We find ourselves to be a very much a value add partnership model.
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  So we don't just buy 'em and just let 'em be. Um, you know, I've heard,
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  I've heard of word invisible dsso. I had a meeting I had a few months ago.
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  I didn't actually, I don't really know what that is. Um, so, uh, you know,
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  for us,
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  we like to partner with doctors and we like to help them improve and identify
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  areas in the business that they're gonna improve.
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  So I think it's gonna be really, really important that, um,
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  all the DSOs really g kind of dive back into their practices and see where they
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  can maximize things, make things more efficient, um,
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  make them more profitable at a practice level. Um, and, you know,
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  while doing that and then going forward, you know, growth, acquisition, um,
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  you know, there's gonna be a lot of retiring doctors,
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  a lot of retiring doctors right now, um, or doctors willing, willing to sell.
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  You know, our, I think our,
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  I think our average age of these days that doctors we're partnering with and
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  practice are partnering with are in the low fifties, um,
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  which I would never have believed five years ago when we started this. Um,
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  there's a lot of doctors that want to continue to grow, continue to practice,
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  um, but they're younger and they're willing to stay in it.
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  So I think that having, having that mentality, um, of growing internally,
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  growing within the four walls of dental practices and putting in, you know,
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  the best, um, best practices, um, most, you know,
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  really streamlining profitability at the practice level is gonna be the most
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  important thing that people do in the next two to three years. Um, again, one,
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  it's great for business, it's great for valuations, um, and also hedges against,
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  you know, what could happen in the, in the financial economy outside of,
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  of what, of what we're doing in the dental industry.
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  Fantastic. Well, Jonathan,
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  thank you so much for your insights today and your time.
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  I look forward to connecting with you again in the future.
• 16:36
  All right. You're welcome. Thank you very much.