Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 797: From Instagram Mysteries to Indie Horror: The Bold Experiments of Joe Kowalski

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IFH 797: From Instagram Mysteries to Indie Horror: The Bold Experiments of Joe Kowalski · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the INDIEILM Muscle Podcast, Episode number seven ninety seven,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
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  Speaker 2: Roman Polanski.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
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  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
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  Speaker 1: the film biz.
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  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble.
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  Speaker 2: Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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  Speaker 2: the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film into
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  Speaker 2: a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before for
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• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: On this episode, we have a Cleveland, Ohio based filmmaker
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: who recently made I Am the Away, Stephen king Dollar
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: maybe short film, and he's hitting the film festival circuit
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: with another film of his called Prism. With guests Joe Kowalski,
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: No Problem, and I remember the first time you were here.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I butchered your last name and I called just something
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: completely different. I don't even remember what it was, and
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: I compared it to a deal disease when John Travolta
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: called you know, yeah, he called her adell disease.
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: Right, I do remember this?
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, what the hell happened there? I
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: was like, I knew his last name and I called
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: just of the else. I was like, wait, what the
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: hell did I just do there? So I understand how
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: John Travolta feels. But since you've been on here, Joe,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I think you were episode eighty four, I want to say,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: so that was actually, you know what, Joe, we're getting
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: close to over one hundred episodes ago because I'm up
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: to like one, I'm up, yeah, right, it's like one
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: sixty whatever I'm up to now, And you know, it's
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: just you know, it's almost a one hundred episodes ago.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: We're like, we're like less than twenty away. And so,
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: you know, Joe, I wanted to reconnect with you because
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: you're always up to something really cool, and I wanted
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: to ask about a couple of things, you know, And
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: as we sort of get rolling on this, so you know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: since we've last talked, you've done one, You've done a
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: dollar Baby Stephen King short film. Uh two you've graduated
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: from college, and three you have started an Instagram murder
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: mystery type interactive game.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: So I'm probably missed a couple other things.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: So I wanted to ask about all that all that
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: stuff because I think it's awesome, and particularly about your
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Stephen King short story The Dollar.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Baby for those listeners. I've touched on this too. I had.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: I actually got a Dollar Baby done once. And I'll
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: tell you just real quick. I I don't want to
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: eat up all the time Joe with talking about me.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to talk to you about your stuff. But
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: you know, I actually did the Dollar Baby too, and
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I did in the death room. We actually shot in
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Eastern State Penitentiary here in Philadelphia. I got us a
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: location for pretty discounted rate. They would they They also
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: just let us skip down on the insurance bawd. We
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: actually had one, but it was it wasn't the one
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: that they usually recommend it was.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Or asked for.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: It was a It was a lower one that allowed
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: us to sort of, you know, make the production a
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: little cheaper. We shot for that in that in there
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: for like a day. We shot at Ridley Creek State
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Park here right down the street from me, uh here
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: in media, and we kind of like put all this together,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: and at the end of it, all the the editor
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: just lost all the footage. And when I talked to
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: everyone about it, they were like, they were like, are
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: you gonna sue that guy? And I said, he's a lunatic,
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: as if he came recommended to me by somebody, right,
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: and we we we were working with him, and he
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: just kept sitting on the footage and I was like,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: what do you because you know what happened, Joe. He
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: had a Facebook addiction and he would just scroll on
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Facebook rather than doing it and and I and I
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: kept saying, I'm like, just give me the footage back
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: and I'll go to somewhere else. Well, finally he got
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: it together and we were gonna make all these adjustments.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: We were so close to having the final product done,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: and then he sends me this message that his MAC
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: was dying, and I said, look, I'll help you pay
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: for it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: And then he's like, oh.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what I'm gonna do about this,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: and blah blah blah this or that, and basically that
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: was the end of it. And he said that all
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: the his mac finally died and all the footage went
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: with it, and I couldn't get a hold of them.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: You know a lot of crazy editors out there. So
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: I honestly, here's my advice anyone listening to this, always
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: have a backup of your footage.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Because my DP just gave him.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: My DP just gave him the actual fucking hard drive
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: with everything on it and said here you go edit
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: the footage. And I was like, dude, I go, I
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: can't believe you did that without giving it to me
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: first and letting me copy all this crap. But but
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: that was my dollar baby adventure. It's another horror story
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: that I have about filmmaking, Joe.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, somebody else put it out. They're like, Dave,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: all your stories.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Are all ending like heartbreak and and and and you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: down on much stuff like that. And I go, yeah,
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: it's the truth, man, because I have so many crazy people.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: But but no, but I want to hear about your experience, Joe.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: You know, how did you pick the story that you picked?
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: You know, what story did you actually pick? You know,
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: how did you shoot all this? How did you shoot everything?
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Being as it's you know, it's very limited to being
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: what you can do because obviously you can't get investors
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: for it stuff like that, so you have to kind
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: of work in a very shoe string budget unless you
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: have a ton of money, you know what I mean.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: But I want to hear all this about all about
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: this jokes. I'm fascinated. So what story did you pick
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: from the dollar Baby collection?
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: And just to just to clarify for the audience, the
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: dollar Baby setup is something that Stephen King has done
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: whereby he has a select number of his short stories,
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: a lot of older ones in the seventies and early
• 6:43
  Speaker 6: eighties that are available to use as.
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: Long as you pay a dollar to him. So it's probably.
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: About maybe twenty short stories on the list. And it's
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: really cool because people like me who don't have huge budgets,
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: some stuff kN technically made, even King film without having
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: to pay ridiculous sums of money. So I had chosen
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: I Am the Doorway. This kind of came about because
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: the girl I was dating at the time it was
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: a huge Stephen King fan and she had heard of
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: this before and I had heard of it before, and
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: we were putting together a film called Prism that I
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: released last year that was a half an hour film,
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: and we were thinking, like, well, half an hour's kind
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: of short to bring in.
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: A whole audience and stuff.
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: So we ended up doing is We kind of made
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: a film festival event and we featured some other short
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: films from around the world in this theater in Cleveland,
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: and I Am the Doorway, which is the one we
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: ended up going with, was one of those. It was
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: kind of another way to kind of make the ticket
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: worth it for people, you know, and kind of give
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: them a full experience.
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: So it was chosen by the girl that was dating
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: at the time.
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: We went through a whole bunch of them, though, and
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: we read a bunch of them, and we were trying
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: to figure out, like, what is something.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: That we could do having almost no budget.
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: And having only about a month's worth of time before
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: this big event. And what we did was choose that
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: one because a lot of what the supernaturalness, as you
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: see in a lot of Stephen King short stories, was
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: kind of taking place off screen and you were seeing
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: more of the results of what was happening, because you
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: get this astronaut who comes back to Earth and starts
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: getting these eyes that pop up on his body, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 6: we kind of created a framework story where we had
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: these two.
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: Guys talking in a bar.
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: About this whole situation and they kind of tie into
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: the story.
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: So it was kind of cool to do that because
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: typically I'm.
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: Used to starting stories from scratch and building upon those
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: and working upon that with friends. But it was really
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: interesting to take someone else's work, especially someone as you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: prolific as Stephen King, and try to adapt that to
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: like a ten minute short film.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: See, I just as a filmmaker standpoint, I'm sorry, as
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: a filmmaker standpoint, I just kind of think even just
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: trying to do something like that, Joe, we have an
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: astroast come back down on Earth. I mean, it just
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: sounds expensive. We're just wearing my producer hat, you know.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Even with doing.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: With with Death Room, you know, I had that whole prisons,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: you know, a location, and even just paying for that,
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: I was like, you know what they're gonna charge us,
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: you know, whatever they charge us, it was, you know,
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I think probably a.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Grand or something even for that day.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Even back then, I was like, Jesus Christ a grand
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: and you know, we got to make sure everything's set and.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: There are so many problems that you know, or and
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: ended up being my fault because I I to do this.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: I listened to too many people, and that was my
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: fault for doing it. I've learned a lot of things
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: on each and every project. That project was me listening
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: to too many people, and I tried to sort of
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: do everything that everyone was recommending. And I just I
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: you know, we had we we had too much time
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: being wasted, and there was a lot of production issues
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: that could have been ironed out if I had not
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: listened to all those people, if you know what I'm
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: trying to say, Like I adds that didn't even need
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: to be there, that we could have just went went went,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: you know what, we don't even need this fucking thing.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Fuck it and let's just get rid of it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: And I've worked with directors who've skewed one way or
• 10:49
  Speaker 6: the other, and some of them are very well meaning,
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: but yeah, you do have some people who will literally
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: waste all the time on stuff.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: They see it just like like a party.
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: You know, they got all their friends together and there
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: I wouldn't be cool if we did this and.
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: They take an hour. All we got to find a
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: rope and takes another hour. Let's just eat. We're gonna eat.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: Some people like that, and then you do have the
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: people who are like so amble about trying to this
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: is my masterpiece, you know. I got to get every
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: single detail right now, more of a tiny little smirk.
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: In that performance and stuff.
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: And so one thing that I've learned over the years
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: and I'm trying to always get better at, is finding
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: the balance between like, I want this set.
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: To be enjoyable.
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: I want people to be having a good time and
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: not feel like they're miserable doing this. But at the
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: same time, we also do have to keep like a
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: tight schedule on this, and there are some things I
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: do want to be kind of specific about and that
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: I'm very certain that I went. But I also have
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: to know when it when to compromise on that, like
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: if it's not going to work out, find it another
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: way around. If someone has a great suggestion, be willing
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: and open to all suggestions if they're going to make
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: the story better or help move things along better for everybody.
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: So it is a really hard balance.
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: It is very tough.
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: So I can understand falling into that trap entirely because
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: I've been there before.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah it was funny too, because well funny now, but
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: it was just because you know, somebody was who was
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: worked at a at a film festival contact to me,
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: and he actually was a local Philly guy and we
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: met and I'll never forget this. I forget his name,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: but I never forget where we met. We actually met
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: and he asked me to meet up with him at
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: the at the Philly Anarchist Paper headquarters.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: And I said, first off, I didn't even know Philip.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't even know Philadelphia had an anarchist newspaper.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't even know an anarchist newspaper was a thing.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: We walk in, Joe, and I'm not kidding you. There's
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: a big sign on the wall that says please no
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: drug use allowed or sorry, please do not use drugs
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: while on the premises and in parentheses yes this includes
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: weed and parentheses. And I and I'm just laughing and
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: going if you have to put a board up like that,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: like what.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: The fuck is going on in here?
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: Oh? Man?
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I started talking to this guy.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: And as this guy was talking and I mean, I'm
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: sure he met well, like I'm like, first off the
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: neighborhood was terrible, And I'm sitting there going.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Why the hell are we even?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Why why did I have to meet for them?
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: This is another thing, Joe that always kind of like
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: grinds my gears. People always ask to meet me in
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: person or they want to meet up for coffee or something.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: I go, why why.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Don't we just do a skype message or why don't
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: you just shoot me an email? Why do we have
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: to meet face to face? Like I don't get it,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: like honestly, like I gotta waste my time, get.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Put gas in my car, drive up all the way
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: into the city or wherever the hell you are, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: then then we.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Gotta meet and it never, nothing ever gets resolved because
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: we just go back and forth.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: And it's the same thing with that Stephen King guy.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: We could have done that over a Skype interview with
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Sharon screenshare and had the same exact thing, and we
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: both could have just been in the comfort of our
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: own homes. It's just, you know what I mean, It's
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: just I just I'm not saying I'm like gonna become
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: some obese shut in or anything like that. Like the
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: mom from Gilbert Grape but but but well, I'm getting
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: there the other Joe. But but, like to me, if
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: you're gonna meet somebody, you should have a clear objective
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: because everyone's you know, I'm at the point in my
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: life now where I just think time is money now
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: and I'm always you know, when I.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Was, I mean, how old are you, Joe, twenty four,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I'm only twenty two.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: I'm a baby.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Twenty two years young, and I'm I'm sorry, and I'm
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: cursing up a storm at you, sir. But okay, so
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: you're twenty two, so I'm ten years older than you are.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: And so basically I'm at the point now, Joe, where
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: like I've become like that guy I always didn't want
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: to be where I'm just like, you know, everything's time.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Is money, you know.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: But when I was when I was your age, Joe, again,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: I'm sounding old as shit right now. When I was
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: your age, show, I actually I would go out and
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: I would I would go on random film sets, I
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: would meet new people and I would just get you
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: know what. I'm just gonna treat everything like an adventure.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna treat everything like a learning experience, and I'm
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: just gonna go out there and I'm just gonna see
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: whatever happens. And when I made my Stephen King Dollar Baby,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I think I was twenty four or twenty five, and
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: then I use that experience to parlay that into making
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: a TV pilot, which I won't go into because you know,
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: listeners of this show know that story inside and out.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: But with the whole uh, with with that, what I
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: did there was I was always looking at everything as
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: like a learning experience. And when when you know, meeting
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: all these different people on the course of actually making
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: this Stephen King Dollar Baby, I've met so many interesting people,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: for both good and bad.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: But like you know, I think as.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: A filmmaker, when you're that age, you know, twenty two,
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: twenty three, twenty four, you know you have to go
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: out there and see all these you know, make all
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: these mistakes. And then when you're like twenty eight twenty nine,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: that's kind of like you're you're starting to be getting
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: your prime. That's the age Quentin Tarantino made Reservoir Dogs.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I think that was the age when when Rodriguez made
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Rebel without a crew. I'm mari El Mariachi. I'm not
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: sure though. That's the age where uh, Damien Chase made Whiplash,
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: and I you know what I mean. So I kind
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: of look at those experiences as it's kind of molding me,
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: because that's that's what I'm sure.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: That's the whole point of what I'm trying.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: To say here is you know, and and you're treating
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: this as knowing when these opportunities come down, knowing what
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: is going to be a good opportunity and what's going
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: to just be.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: A waste of your time.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: It's almost like, you know what I mean, like when
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: somebody like when when a producer comes to you and says, hey, listen,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: I got this. You know, a producer quote unquote comes
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: to you and says, hey, listen, Joe, I gotta I
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: got this, you know, whole whole TV pilot ready to roll.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: I need someone to direct it. Would you want to
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: direct it? And and you're, you know, at first, you're like, Okay,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I'll talk to you about it. And you start to
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: meet and you go, oh crap, there's so many holes
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: in this. It's unbelievable, you know.
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: What I mean.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: You start you start seeing between the lines, if you
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: know what I'm trying to.
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: Say, right, I think a big part of it too,
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: is that I think time is the most important thing
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: for everybody on set, not just because of how the
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: schedule and everything, but ultimately, especially on an independent film
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: and you don't have the ability to pay people, that's
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: the biggest thing they're giving you, and that's the biggest
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: thing they can give you, is just that time to
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: be there and help make birth thing come to life.
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: And so I just find it so incredibly disrespectful when
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: people don't value that time and don't take into account that,
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: you know, these people don't have to be there. They're
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: not you know, they're not being paid to be there anything.
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: They don't have any obligation to you other than the
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: sense that maybe they care about this project too, or
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: maybe they want to see you succeed.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: So I definitely know what you mean.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: When it comes to a lot of the points that
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: you've made, and I just I try to respect that
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: time and I want people to get a full experience
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: out of it. So, like like I said, when I
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: was trying to put together this festival event, I wanted
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: to make sure that if people were going to come,
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: and we didn't have a set price, but we just
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: were kind of taking donations in general. But people are
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: going to come and don't money. I want them to
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: come out seeing like an hour and fifteen minutes of
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: really top notch short films. And it's tough when you
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: have friends that come up and say, hey, can you
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: include my film in this? And I go, I don't
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: think I can. It doesn't quite meet the expectations of
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: what we're trying to do with this. It's tough to
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: be able to do that and to be able to say, like,
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: you know what, I think you worked hard on this,
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: but you know, deep down, you know that it's not
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: quite the quality that you want. And it's a hard
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: thing to do that because you want to make everyone happen.
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: You want to have all those context But you're right,
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: you do have to start getting more selective about how
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: you spend your time and what you choose to work on.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, somebody once told me, Joe that life
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: is all about creating a bubble around yourself and you
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: and you start to understand what you like and don't
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: like inside of that bubble, and anything and everybody that's
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: not within that confines you push out of that bubble.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: And basically that's you know, what I mean. And I
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: started to realize that over the years and when I
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: when I meet people and it's just like, hey, you know,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: cause cause I do this podcast, and I'll get an
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: email probably maybe once, I don't know, maybe once a
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: week saying hey, Dave, would you ever you know, if
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: you're ever up in New Jersey or in New York,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: or you want to come in Philly or whatever, why
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: don't you come and we'll have coffee or whatever. And
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: I just go, you know what, I just don't know why,
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: like you know what I mean, Like, I don't want
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: to sell like a jerk. I don't want to sell
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: like a jerk. I really don't, like I don't want
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: to be like, oh I'm Dave Bulls. But no, I'm
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: just like, you know, why would you want to talk
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: to me? Like what?
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: And it's just like I want I want to make
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: sure that we're each getting something out of it and
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: it's not just going to be, you know, turn into
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: a pitch meeting, which by the way, Joe has happened.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I had people meet me and they.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Go they're just like hey, yeah, and it's like, hey, Dave,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: you know, would you want to join this project, and
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: I go no, like when they they hevens aart broke
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: and he goes and he looks at me, he goes,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: why not, And I go, well, uh, it's and it's it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: And like you were just saying, you you you try to,
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: you know, you want to see people succeed, but you
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: just want to you know, you want to say, well,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: it's because it's not going to.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Work, dude.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: There's so many holes in this in in production, like hey,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: can we can we shoot a I knew and I
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: talked about this before about shooting period pieces on a budget,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: like hey, I.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Want to shoot a civil war.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: I want to shoot a Civil war period piece with
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: five hundred bucks. Okay, good luck, you know you know
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: what I mean?
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, And you get the you get a lot
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: of that too, and and you know what if if
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: they do have a substantial amount of money, then those
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: things are realistic. But otherwise that's a big part of
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: it too, is knowing what realistically can accomplish. And that's
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: something I always try to take into mind when I
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: when I write the projects that I do is I
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: know the resources I have to work with primarily, I
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: know the people I have to work with primarily, and
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: be smart about how you do it, because people will
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: be so much more impressed if you make a really
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: good film within your limits than if you try to
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: reach too far. And that doesn't say, you know, that
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge yourself, And that doesn't mean
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: that you know, you might throw in something that might
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: that might be a little more expensive, it might be
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: a little bit more complicated that you're.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: Going to have to figure out. You got to give
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: yourself those challenges.
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: But at the same time, don't, like you said, try
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: to make like a period piece of like this crazy
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: futuristic sci fi when you know that realistically, if you
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: try to do that, you're only gonna get like twenty
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: percent of the way there, and people are just going
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: to see it as a little silly.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's just going to be you know, if
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you want to do yeah, do all that stuff, and
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: you know, hey, do you have somebody that knows or
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: rents period piece costumes? Because five you know, even if
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: I bumped up to five thousand dollars budget, like you're
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: going to eat through that in no time, just to
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: just to setting up the world. And it is gonna
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: and you're right, it's gonna end up looking just silly,
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: you know. And it's just gonna end up looking just crazy.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I'll give you another.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: Example and then then we'll get back to what you
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: were talking about.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I don't want to take this ship again. I don't
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: want to. I wanted to talk about your stuff.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: But like you know, I had a guy before come
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: to me and he wanted to shoot a zombie film
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: for like, I think he said, like five hundred bucks,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: and I said, uh, you know it's possible, because I said,
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: if you look at Colin.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: And I actually had the director and writer Mark V.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: Prince on this podcast and we talked about how he
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: did it for fifty bucks or it really did. He
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: shot it for fifty bucks, shot a full length zombie
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: feature called Colin, which is actually really freaking cool. And uh, basically,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: with Colin, it's a he gets this guy gets bit
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: by zombie in the beginning of the film and he
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: becomes a zombie and for the rest of the film
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: you follow this shambling zombie throughout the rest of the film.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: It's actually really cool and in fact that the fact
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: that he shot it, Yeah, honestly, it was a phenomenal idea.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: And the fact that he got did it for fifty
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: bucks makes even better because I told him, I said, Mark,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: if you had shot this for like, let's just say
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: somebody gave you a million dollars, I said, you would
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: have shot yourself in the foot. And you know what
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, because you would have been like, holy shit,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: now we can have a building explode, you know what
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: I mean. And I think that's sometimes you know, as
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: again we were talking about you know, you got to
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: weigh your opportunities. But Mark, you know, he was able
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: to do whatever he wanted because he you know, obviously
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: fifty bucks is fifty bucks. But but anyways, but you know,
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: as we talked about that, that guy was talking with
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: the zombie feature. He wanted to shoot it for five
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: hundred bucks. And he basically was was like real adamant
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: about shooting this thing, and Joe, I am not getting
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: around with you. He wanted to shoot it at three
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning. He wanted to shoot this one
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: scene at three o'clock in the morning. And I'm looking
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: on Google Maps and I said, what's this building right
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: across the street from where we're going to film? He goes, oh,
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: that's the police station. I said, are we going to
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: have permits? He goes, no, No, it's all going to be
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: guerrilla stuff. I said, So we're going to shoot right
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: across from the police station where the army is bombies,
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: and you don't think anyone's going to say anything? And
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: he looks at me and he goes, no, do you
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: think they will? I go, yeah, dude, I think the
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: police are going to look out their window and go, hey,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: here's somebody filming without a permit.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh boy.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it's stuff like that, man. But you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: as we go back to talking about your stuff, Joe, so,
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: what were some of the biggest production issues.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: You had while making Your Dollar Baby? I mean, you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: did you start a crowdfund campaign for it?
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: Uh? No, Like I said, this was kind of more
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: of a side thing that we could show off for
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: the festival. So we actually shot pretty much most of
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: it all in one weekend, and one of the locations
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: was a restaurant that I do some media work for
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: that I got permission, and then we filmed at a
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: beach that was public you know, just public property.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: And yeah, it was just a.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: Lot of like again like using your resources and saying here,
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: I have this, so why don't I know this in here,
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: you know, and working with it and making it work
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: within the stories context. A far bigger project was the
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: film Prism that I mentioned that we were kind of
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: showcasing around this whole festival event, and that was that
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: film basically took a year from the first first typing
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: it to actually showing it off, And I can talk
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: a little bit about that if you'd like me to
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: it all.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: Basically the movie is about six people from two different families,
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: and each character is represented by a separate color. So
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: while the most of the film you see is in
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: black and white, when that character is on screen, you
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: see their color pop.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: Out of the black and white.
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: So like if you remember, like in Schindler's List, there's
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: like the girl red dress.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: And.
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: That photo effect comes up a lot, you know, you
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: see like yellow highlights come out of a you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: a picture of somebody or something like that. We basically
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: did that with the whole movie. So like when our
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: character Green was on screen, his shirt would come out
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: because he was wearing green, but also the trees in
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: the background you would see them, and that was a
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: very interesting challenge from a storytelling standpoint, from a technical
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: standpoint because all that I think, if you're going to
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: do something like that, each of the colors have to
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: have a meaning to them. So that was something we
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: were very certain about. And also the story kind of
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: weaves in and out of these characters' lives and how
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: they relate to each other, and this person's cheating on
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: this person, and this person's has a crush on this person.
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: And one thing I really had to learn from this
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: film was really to just outline everything, and that's not
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: something I'm very used to doing. I kind of like
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: diving in and then just seeing where it goes. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: sometimes that works, but it's a lot of work after
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: the fact to try to make that into something cohesive.
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: But particularly in relation to the families, we had to
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: like sit down and write out a family tree and
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: figure out the relation of each character to the other,
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: and that was something that was kind of difficult because
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: then we would say, well, this doesn't really work because
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: this character wouldn't interact with this person. It was a
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: very unusual process for this whole movie, and we aren't
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: really able to show it off yet because we're trying
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: to get in some film festivals and we haven't had
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: any luck yet, but we're going to keep trying. But
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: the trailer is online if anyone wants to check it out.
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: If you look up like Prism twenty sixteen or Prism
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: Short Film twenty sixteen, or even on my channel Pog
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Joe and that's p Ogi e Joe, there's a couple
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: of trailers on there, so you can kind of get
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: an idea of what I'm talking about with this color thing.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: You know, Joe, I actually have some film festivals I
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: would recommend that you entered into. Number one being the
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Delco Film Festival. I think they that would be a
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: good film festival for you to enter it into. That's
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: actually right by my house as well. But if you like,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: I can actually introduce you. I can actually introduce you
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: to the guy who runs it.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: Oh that'd be that would be amazing. And you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: if I was ever in.
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: That area, we could meet up and have some coffee
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: and I have this great pitch I want to sell you.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: No go, Joe, no way, no, No, I'm just kidding.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I would see like, like somebody that I've
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: actually met and talked to, I would be down for that.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: And you know the funny the founder is Chris Piermenico,
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: and he's actually been on the podcast before, and uh,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: Chris is Chris is a very good guy. And before
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: we got on the podcast, he said to me, He's like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: please try not to curse too much because I'm going
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: to recommend this to my students, and don't tell any
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: weird stories. And I go, that's all I have in
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: life is weird stories and cursing.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: That's it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: You take that away from me. I'm not I'm nothing anymore.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: Right, you're a show.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I'll exactly, I'm just like a shell of
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: a man. I'm not even I'm not even my George
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Costanza self. But I will introduce you to him. And
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: I read this podcast and I'm sure Chris would love
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: to talk to you about having that film there. And
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: you know, so as you made, you know your dollar
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: baby too, because I'll link to everything in the show
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: notes as well.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Everybody.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: I'll link to the Delco Film Festival and every and
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: Joe's channel and everything else. But when you're talking about
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: you know, your dollar baby, and you actually just you
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: shot it into a weekend. Did you have any like
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: real huge production issues come up that that like anything
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: that we were talking about, or anything like completely unexpected, like, hey,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: it rained on a Sunday when we thought it was
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: going to be clear skies anything like that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: Actually, that was surprisingly straightforward.
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: We were actually kind of marveling that it came out
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: as well as it did. And the nice part about
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: it is that the people we cast in it were
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: people that we were considering for the other film Prism,
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: that were really good, but they just didn't quite fit
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: the parts we were looking for. So were like, what's
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: the capacity that we can use these people.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: So we were able to get four of these actors
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: who were really, really good that I still wanted to
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: work with into this film and you know, get to
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: spend a couple of days filming with them. And the
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: thing about that it was just basically a skeleton crew
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: of me and my girlfriend at the time, and so
• 30:31
  Speaker 6: I guess we didn't really have to worry too much
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: about other cast and crew members. It wasn't like the
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: other film where we had like a full cast and everything.
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: It was kind of just us just going at it
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: and it was almost a fun relief side project after
• 30:47
  Speaker 6: having that massive project, like I said, kind of churning
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: into that for a year. So actually, I'm really really
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: glad I did The Dollar Baby because it was just
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: such a nice, like what's the word I'm looking for.
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: It wasn't It wasn't a high level stress thing.
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: It was something that we planned out and really just
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: kind of had fun doing.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know that's something too. You know.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: I talked to Alex Ferrari about if any film hustle
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: and we were talking about that as well, where you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: at some points, I mean, you you and and.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: It's good that you learned at the age of twenty two.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: Sometimes when you're making something, you just get this obsession
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: with it, like everything has to be perfect, and then
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: you start, you know, and everything, the stress starts to
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: get on you, and then you by the end of it,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: you're like, I just can't wait to get this thing
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: done and I'll never talk about it again. And you're like,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: and honestly, that's what happened to me and my short
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: my student film. I I by the end, Joe I
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: was like, I just want to get these last shots
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna do. The last day I was doing my short,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: my student film, I actually said I to everybody, I said,
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: we're doing one take of everything. That's it, and then
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: I'm and then we're just gonna call it a day.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: And and everybody was just burned out from it. So
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: we end up doing more than one take on a
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: lot of stuff, but still it ended up and we're like, look,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: that's it, We're done.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about this every again.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: But it's you know, and then you want to do
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: something fun where you just can have fun while you're
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: actually shooting, because you know, at the end of the day,
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: this is supposed to be fun, right, Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's why I think you really really have
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: to care about the story you're telling with a big,
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: long term production, because it is very easy to get
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: tired of it. But you have to know deep down
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: that when you finish it, it's going to be so
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: rewarding because it's a story you really care about, and
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: in a way, you never quite leave it because even
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: after you show it, at least in my case, we
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: did like crowdfunding, so you still have to go in
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: and you know, like the DVDs and the Blu rays
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: and the bonus material, and you still have to promote
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: it for film festivals if you're trying to get into
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: that whole realm, and and and then you have to
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: try to get the movie to various people and who
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: didn't get a chance to see it, and you forever
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: are always kind of attached to it and pushing it
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: and trying to get it out to people. So that's
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: the thing I think that's really important, and that's why
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: I try to come up with good stories that are
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: that that I can care about even when I don't
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: feel like caring about them.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, you know, and when you're trying to
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: have you know, just a good time with this stuff,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: and you know, you want to be able to see,
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: you know, you have fun while you're making it, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: then you see it up on the screen and that's
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: something everyone can be proud of and you because you know,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: you all did your best and you it's that feeling
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: you get, you know, okay, we've you know, it was
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: it was a little tough, it was a little frustrating.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: We're all tired but we all did our best, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: now the proofs in the pudding. Now it's all up
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: up on uh up on screen there, and you know,
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: some days you watch it and you're like, oh man,
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: there's a mistake.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: There's another mistake.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Know and sort of you know that, you know what
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, like that that that sort of seeps in
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: after a while too.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: But you know, at the end of the day.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: I think some of the best filmmaking advice is by
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Mark Duplas, where he said, literally every weekend, go out
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: and for a hundred bucks, make a short film with
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: your friends. He said, don't spend more than a hundred bucks,
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: and it'll teach you more about filmmaking than anything else could,
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: because you're actually out there doing it, and you're actually
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: out there actually making stuff, and you can you know,
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: and if you don't, and honestly, if it sucks, hey
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: we spend one hundred bucks.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: If it's good, you put it up on YouTube.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: And that's one thing I'm really grateful for with things
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: like YouTube is because since I've been doing it for
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: seven years now fairly regularly, it is that kind of
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: experience where I always am trying new things and making
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: cool stuff with friends, and you're right, like, you know,
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: even if you're not even spending that much money, you're
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: still getting the experience. So you're you're making something that
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: can be a sort of time capsule.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: Like I remember when I.
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: Was hanging out with that friend in Cleveland, you know,
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: years later, and I think, honestly, I think that that's
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: how I got to where I am.
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: And it's not like I'm not trying to brag or anything.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying that I'm like at the top of
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: the top or anything like that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: But I think I've done more than a lot of
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: peers my age because of that experience and because I've
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: always been interested in creating things and I can't stop.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, you know.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: And you know, I think artists more than anybody else obviously,
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: because they have this desire to create. It's like this desire,
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: this innate desire you're kind of born with, and you
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: you have this desire to create, and.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you're when you're younger, you don't really know what
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: You just kind of do it, you know what I mean,
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: whether it be like an arts and crafts or something
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: like that. And then some people pick up a video
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: camera if they're if they're you know, if they that's
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: what they're if their adolescence is filled with if their
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: parents had a video camera, and you you sort of,
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: you know, you start doing all this stuff, and I mean,
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: you know, because you're born with this life and it's
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: almost like this feeling of we have to creates something
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: of value at all times. And it's something I feel too,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: And it's almost like this feeling of Okay, I'm here,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: now what should I do? Well, you know, and if
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: you're an artist, you say, well, I'm gonna create some more.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: And I have this desire to create. And you know,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: maybe other people are like chefs and they just want
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: to make make food, and that's that's sort of desire
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: to create. And you know, when we start putting all
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: these projects out there, and you know, you've been doing
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: YouTube for seven years, and I think that's phenomenal. Honestly, Joe,
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: I hope you keep doing it because honestly, I you know,
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: you're you're obviously I know you're getting better.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: You're getting better and better and better.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: And also because I just think it's a great outlet too,
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: because again, like we were just saying, if you make
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: a film for a hundred bucks and if you don't
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: like it, at the end of the day, hey, look
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: I spend one hundred bucks. But if you do like it,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: hey put it on up on YouTube and who knows
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: what could happen.
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And.
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: There's there's I think there's a lot of marriage that
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: we were saying about having those those projects that are
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: just something fun.
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: And one thing for me too.
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: Besides just the YouTube stuff, is also our podcast, which
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: you've actually been on once before, and.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: We're not that's right, Yeah I have.
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not as far along as you are, but
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: we're getting pretty close to seventy episodes. And that's like
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: a fun thing where like just me and a few
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: of my friends can get together once a week and
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: just have a good time. And it's not something you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: I'll have it edited in a couple hours and you
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: still have to post it and promote it a little
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: bit at sponsors occasionally and stuff like that. But at
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: the same time, when we're just sitting there recording it,
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: it's just an hour where we can just have a
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: good time and talk, whether it be about deep things
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: or maybe it's just goofy light hearted stuff. But that's
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: been a really cool project to collaborate with my friends
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: on because it is that little kind of low stress
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: relieving kind of project.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you know, the podcast is fun. You know,
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: that's why I do my podcast. I actually made a
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: promise to myself. I said, in the day it stops
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: becoming fun, I'm gonna stop doing it. I've broken that
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: promise a few times, but you know, I was listening.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: I was listening to Tim Ferriss one time, and he
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: said the whole idea, the whole concept of his podcast was.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: He goes, I just want to edit it myself, but
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: I want to make editing no more than ten minutes.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: He goes. If I had to sit here and edit
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: out stuff, he goes, I hate doing that. He goes,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's pointless.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: He goes, I just want to have a conversation and
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: put it up online.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: And I mean, look at his fan base. It's unfreaking believable.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: And you know that's kind of like what I wanted
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: to was, you know, just having not having to sit
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: here for you know, four hours a night, going okay,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: let me edit this podcast and do all this stuff.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do do some editing to it.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: But I try to keep it as pure with the
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: conversation as possible. Most of my editing involves like I'm
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: gonna boost your maybe I'll boost your audio a little bit,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: or maybe I'll put it like a Dehisser effect in there,
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: just would take out any sort of like that static
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: noise or de hummer.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: Something like that, you know.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, a podcast is a really cool
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: way just to sort of you know, just a it's
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: another form of media because the gatekeepers are all non existent.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Because I mean literally you can create a podcast with
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: your phone now and upload it to like something like Podbean.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I already had all the equipment I needed
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: to make something like this because I already have a
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: bunch of audio and video equipment from doing all the
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: other work that I do.
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: So it wasn't like I needed to go out and
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: get some special stuff.
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: I mean, eventually we did get like a nicer microphone,
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: and you know, we'd like to eventually save up to
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: do more live shows to kind of have the.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: Equipment to do that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: But I mean most of the stuff was already there.
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: Only needed was each other and an idea. So I
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: totally see the appeal. And while I edit it in
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: like ten minutes, I do take out some things.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: And you know, we bleep out a couple of words
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: and stuff like that.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: For the most part, it's it is a pretty low
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: stress project compared to a lot of other things that
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: I'm trying to do.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: And you know, actually it's something else I wanted to
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: talk about too. Is you know, what else are you
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: are you trying to do? Because I know you did
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: the Instagram Murder Mystery game, So I want to hear
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: about this because you know, I purposely don't know anything
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: about it because I wanted to actually talk to you
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: about it. So like, what is Is it like a game?
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: It's a game that anybody can play, right.
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, as long as you have an Instagram account,
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: you should be able to play it. And this is
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: actually I was trying to make a capstone for an
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: interactive media class that I was taking before I graduated
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: this past semester. And you know a lot of people
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: were doing a lot of cool stuff with like VR
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: and with like some interactive videos. But I was trying
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: to think of something that I hadn't tried before because
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: I had done a little bit of both those things,
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: and I was thinking a lot about how people use
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: Instagram sometimes to create these picture grids of sorts. You know,
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: if you upload the pictures in the right order, all
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: of a sudden, if you go to that person's page,
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: you know, one big picture can be made out of
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: like nine pictures.
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: And I just thought that was really cool.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: So I was wondering, like, could you do something with that,
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: Like how do you how do you make something that
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: feels self contained, you know, not like it's like it's
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: like you're inside this little experience through Instagram.
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: And so what I did is I.
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: Used those kind of picture grids, and I use the
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: tagging system, whereas like if you if you tap on
• 41:51
  Speaker 6: a picture, it will come up with like a tag
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: in that person's account. So I between those two features. Again,
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: Instagram isn't design for something like this, but I kind of, yeah,
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: created a game of sorts, and if you go to
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: the account Murder Mystery game all one word, people can
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: check that out. I mean, you start up with like
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: a map of Cleveland, and then if you go to
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: the individual pictures there are those tags where you can
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: go to other parts of Cleveland and look for clues,
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: and then you get the testimony from all these different characters.
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: And if you tap on more of the pictures within
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: those accounts, you can sometimes see these fake characters' accounts
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: and just little clues that are hidden throughout. And like
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: I said, the whole idea is that you're trying to
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: solve this this murder mystery of this girl who was killed.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: So it was.
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: A very unusual project because it's not a linear thing
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: where you just set out like, Okay, I have this
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: scene and I have this scene. But at the same time,
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: it was utilizing a lot of the things I had
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: learned from doing video and filmmaking and stuff like that.
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: Whereas you know, if you set up a schedule, I'm
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: meeting with this person at this time, we're gonna record
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: video of them, We're going to stage a bunch of
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: pictures with them, and then later on we're moving to
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: this person and planning it out like that made it
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: a much less scarier process because I got way in
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: over my head. One of the things I faced, too,
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: was that for every new Instagram account, you have to
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: have an email address attached to it. So I was
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: just making all these like Gmail accounts that we're associating
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: with all the different accounts. But then Gmail was like, hey,
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: you can't make that many accounts, and I was like, okay,
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: So I went to Yeahoo and I started making all
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: these big Yeahoo accounts to try to make more Instagram accounts,
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: and yeah Who was like, hey, you can't make that
• 43:40
  Speaker 6: many yeah Who accounts.
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: So I ended up going.
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: To like seven different email servers to try to create
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: all these fake email accounts I could make all these
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: different Instagram accounts, which is just yet another way that
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: proves that Instagram wasn't really designed to work like that.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, definitely.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: You know, Instagram is is cool at all, but there's
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: a lot of things that are like limiting with it.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: I know, they want to make like, for instance, the
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: mobile uploading. You know, I tried to like post things.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I can post things to my desktop, but you know
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: what I mean, And sometimes they make it so difficult
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: to just post, you know, stuff like that, because I, hey,
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: I want to take a photo and I want to
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: do some stuff to it then put it to Instagram, you.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And again I understand completely where you.
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: Oh no, that was, Joe. I'm sorry, it's a little
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: bit of a lag because that leads to some of it.
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: I was just gonna say I did run into that
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: problem a lot too, especially given that I have a
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: very cheap phone that doesn't have a whole lot of memory.
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: So anytime I had to like download all of these
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: pictures or god forbid, when I had to download the
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: actual video clips, it would take up so much room
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: on my phone that I would have to like delete
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: a bunch of apps on my phone, download the pictures
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: and footage, upload them to this Instagram account, and then
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: re download my apps to.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's uh, I mean, I know there was a
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: slight lag on de side. I don't know, you know,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I think I might be uh just our our recording
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: host Skype, but but uh with your phone and you
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: had to do backup all that stuff.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I've been there before. I used to have, like.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: I bought one of the one I bought one of
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: the smart first smartphones that came out called the LG Revolution.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Joe.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: It was one of the worst freaking friends I've ever had.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: It was so I bought it in the two thousand
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: and six or seven. It was little literally garbage, and
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: I kept having to like back up on every everything
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: else I would try to, you know, it was so
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: I've been there, man, but but no I So it's
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: so so if somebody wanted to like solve the murder
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: mystery Joe, So if I had an Instagram account, let's
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: just say right now, I say I want to check
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: out Joe's murder mystery game. I went to that inst
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: I have an Instagram account. I went to your Instagram account.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: So we're how do I how would I go about
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: like solving my first clue to see you know, to
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: seeing who you know? Obviously we find out who is murdered.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: How do we go about, you know, sort of doing this.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Do you provide any clues or are they supposed to
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: sort of have to solve it themselves.
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very much on the on the user's own
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: volition that they have to find the clues.
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: But there are a lot of clues sprinkled throughout.
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: But there are a lot of red herrings throughout and
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: dead end and basically when most of the accounts start
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: with murder mystery and then end with a word, So
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: like when you're at the beach, it's murder Mystery Beach,
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: and when you're downtown, it's murder Mystery Downtown. So to
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: figure out if they solved right, you have to go
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: to an account that starts with murder mystery and ends
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: with the murder weapon used to kill the victim. So
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: and then on that page you get to kind of
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: see if you're right, and you get a little kind
• 46:49
  Speaker 6: of set of pictures and a little video clip kind
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: of explaining how that went down. So if you look
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: around and you go to all these different accounts, you'll
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: you shouldn't be able to find out what the murder
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: weapon was. And not everyone I've shown it too has
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: figured it out. Some people needed a little extra help,
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: but I did have quite a few people who were
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: able to get to the end successfully. So that was
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: the one thing I was nervous about, like did I
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: make this too hard? Like are people going to be
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: able to figure this out? But there are there are
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: some people who were able to get to the end.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: So Joe just to just to sort of ask, when
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: you get to the end, is there any sort of
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: like like I don't want to say prize, but is
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: there anything that like a little trophy or something that
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: like people would like, you know what I mean, like
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: they could sort of bragging rights or you know what
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: I mean. Is there anything at the end where people
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: know it's the end? And is there any type of
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: like prize so to speak, as I'm trying.
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: To say, not so much any external prize, but like
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: I said, when you get to the account when you
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: saw it, there is like a set of pictures and
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: like a video clip that kind of explained how exactly
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: how it happened.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: You get to see how how the murder happened.
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: And I, uh, that's that's that's pretty much it.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: No, I just wanted to ask, you know, I imagine, what
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: do you like, you know, cool bragging rights to?
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: And it is a really cool idea. So I'm glad,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: you know, honestly used in social.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Media that way where you know, it's very creative and
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: you know, it's a lot of interactivity, which I which
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: you know, I think is becoming big now, especially with
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: you know, stuff like advances and VR and stuff like that.
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And and that's the thing is that all these
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: interactive methods are constantly evolving. You're never going to have
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: the same technology used you know, even two or three
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: years later. I went to the Cleveland Film Festival this year,
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: which is a pretty pretty big festival for those who
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: don't know anything about it, and they I went to
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: a whole VR demonstration. And I've always kind of had
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: a catal interest in VR. I've gone to some meetings
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: where I've got to try out the oculus and and
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: uh some of the other more elaborate ones where you
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: get like the full body experience, which is really really
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: really cool. And I really believe, especially that virtual reality
• 49:09
  Speaker 6: is going to continue to be a bigger and bigger
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: factor in our lives. I think, not only in terms
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: of gaming, but in terms of how we learn and
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: things used in schools and how we promote ideas, and.
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: It can be such an immersive experience.
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: But yeah, some of these films at the Cleveland Film Folks,
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: it's really interesting to see how they used virtual reality,
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: because I think some of them nailed it really well,
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: and some of them were like, you know, like there
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: was I saw this documentary where they took you to
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: an area where malaria was really active, and it was
• 49:49
  Speaker 6: about this family trying to move to a new area
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: where they could have tents that had mosquito nets on them.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 50:05
  Speaker 6: And being and like seeing and be able to look
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: around in these environments really really connected you with this
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: family in a way that I don't think I would
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: have felt quite as strongly if it was just a
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: regular two D image that I was watching. And of
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: course at the end it was for an organization where
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: you could donate to help these families, and that was
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: like a really exciting use of VR that I think
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: that could be really useful in the future. But then
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: I also watched another one where the whole idea is
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: that you died and you got like buried, and that
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: sounds really cool in theory, but it was not done
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: in a way that I felt was like it just
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: felt really gimmicky. Like if it was telling like a
• 50:51
  Speaker 6: really compelling story, I think it would be more interesting,
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: but it was kind of grainy, and it was to
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: the factor that like, I think within two or three years,
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: the technology is going to make something like that a
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: little less likely to hold up than this really engaging documentary.
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: And I also got to see too, there's a short
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: film called Pearl that was nominated for an Academy Award,
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: and it was a really big deal because it was
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: the first virtual reality project to be nominated for an
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: Academy Award. And that was another one like it was, Yeah,
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: maybe the technology will evolve and this this short film
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: won't be as immersive or as as high tech as
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: it is right now, but it was such an endearing
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: story that I think I think it will hold up.
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: It was about this this father and daughter playing music
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: together and traveling in this same vans across the country, and.
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: It was it was just very, very touching.
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: So I think the more and more people use this
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: kind of technology and the more it evolves, I think
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: we'll keep finding what works and what doesn't and what
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: will hold up and what won't.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you touched on something there that I
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: feel about about about VR. And sometimes I just feel
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: that they're using it as sort of like a gimmick
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: where it's like it's not really about a story. It's
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: about like it's an it's a pure experience. It's almost
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: like a roller coaster. You get on the roller coaster
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: and you're not being you're not asking to be total story.
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: It's just like here's an experience and if and if that, honestly,
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: if that's what somebody wants to do, hey, and we're
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: powa tone because you know, I think you know, you
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: can't really tell somebody, you know, if if that's an
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: experience that you want to have, hey, man, you know,
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: go for it. But like as far as storytelling goes,
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I think VR is gonna fall short. I I just
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: I just don't think see it actually where people are
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: gonna sit there, honestly, Joe, if like maybe two hours,
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: maybe four hours, even.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: With like a video game. I'm talking about video games
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: If we're like if I had a video game with
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: a VR headset on with a controller in my hand
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: and it was like a first person shooter and I'm
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: you know, zombies are coming in. I honestly can't see anybody.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: I can't see like a main part portion of the
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: population anywhere in the world wanting to do that for
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: more than like twenty minutes. I I honestly, man, I
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: think VR has a lot of a lot of things
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: that's going to share with three D. I think where
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: VR is going to come into play. And I mentioned
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: this with Jamie Buckner, who was on the podcast few
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: episodes ago, as we were talking about this as well.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: I think the big thing with VR is.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: Is going to be education, because yeah, because I actually
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: used to work in Higher Ed and I got to
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: see a lot of different stuff, and I think one
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: of the big things is gonna be is going to
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: be like you, your textbook isn't going to be an
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: actual book anymore. It's gonna be almost like a tablet
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: that you know, when you're learning about the human body,
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: you're gonna well, now we're gonna kind of get into ar,
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: but but the there's just gonna be an image of like, hey,
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: we're studying the human brain, and an image of the
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: human brain will come up out of this tablet and yeah,
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: be able to actually interact with it and touch and touch. Okay,
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: well this is this is your sarahbellum and this is
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: gonna be your uh, you know, frontal cortex and stuff
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: like that, and you're and you're like, oh, okay, that's
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: where this is in the brain and shit like that.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: And I think that's where I think VR is going
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: to be very huge. By the way, you want to
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: hear something really cool that I was shown in Higher
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: Ed and it never got to I've never seen it anywhere,
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: and I don't think.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's ever going to be approved.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: They had a special paint that had nanotechnology in it
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: that actually blocked cell phones, so like if you were like, yeah,
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: and actually except for to dial nine one one, that
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: was the only thing that allowed. I never heard anything
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: about it since I honestly don't think I could get
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: it passed because I because probably there's probably gonna be
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: some issue where like it probably well that they said
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: it didn't it blocked nine it didn't block nine one one,
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: but they probably end up did blocking nine one one
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: or something and they couldn't figure out how to get
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: it passed or or maybe some you know what I mean,
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: because because if if something ever did happen at a school,
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: God forbid, you would sit there and say, oh, well
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: they didn't have their cell phones because then because of
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: the paint on the walls. Yeah, So you don't want
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: to be you know, uh, you don't want to be
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: in that situation and be like, well the pain of
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: the walls, you know, stop them. But but yeah, I
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: I but but it's a cool idea though, I mean, honestly,
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: it sounds like a really good idea. But but I
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: but I get why it wouldn't be too mainstream and
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: maybe maybe they're going to roll it out later on.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's one of those things it takes a few
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: years to come out. But but but yeah, that's where
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: I see VR going. As far as VR and movies go,
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: I I just don't think it's ever gonna happen. I honestly,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: I think we're at the point now where I mean,
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: there's a video game that's out right now that somebody
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: was telling me like, hey, Dave, look at this. You
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: could make a movie out of this someday. And I
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: took a look at it, and I said, this thing
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: is so far from.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: A movie, I don't even know where to begin. And
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: it was it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Was this big war game where you can have these
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: two armies battle into each other. And I said, there's
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: no there's no detail to the characters. Every character has
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: the same exact stabbing motion. I said, it's really cool
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: in scope, but I mean, and when you actually get
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: down to it, it's not really It's impressive from a
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: coding standpoint, but from a movie standpoint, I said, this
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: would be that you know, people would tune out after
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: a minute, you know there's no story to it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: There's no there's no there's nothing that's being told.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: And you know that that's again when we when we're
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: differentiating between a story and an experience.
• 56:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I think there's a way they could
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: still coexist.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: Though because I do kind of agree with you.
• 56:21
  Speaker 6: I don't think it's going to take over movies, that
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: all movie theaters are going to be VR experiences or anything,
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: because I think it does offer a different thing. And
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: the thing that I'm starting to notice is that when
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: you're directing a VR film, you direct it more like
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: a stage show or like a play, because you with
• 56:39
  Speaker 6: a movie you have the choice of like I'm going
• 56:41
  Speaker 6: to put the pick of the camera here and this
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: is what the audience sees, whereas like with with a
• 56:46
  Speaker 6: VR film, you have to think more of like what
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: do I what do I want to lead the audience toward?
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: Like if I want to look over this way, I'll
• 56:55
  Speaker 6: have something to flash you over here, you know, or
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: if I I'll have them follow this character as they
• 56:59
  Speaker 6: walk across the way. And it presents an interesting challenge
• 57:03
  Speaker 6: that I think doesn't replace movies, but could be a
• 57:06
  Speaker 6: very interesting thing in and of itself, and I have
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: to say, when it comes to gaming and stuff, there
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: was a really cool game I tried at one of
• 57:14
  Speaker 6: these VR demonstrations where you were on top of castle
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: and you had to knock over these little Minecraft like
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: figures from getting into your fort.
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: And I have to say, after after about.
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: A minute of being there with this bow and arrow
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: on top of this this tower, you know, shooting at
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: these little guys trying to get into your castle, not
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: only do you first of all forget that you're pressing
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: a button that's in your hand to unleash this bow
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: and arrow, You kind of forget that you're not in
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: this environment. And and I think that's the thing where
• 57:48
  Speaker 6: I don't know if I entirely agree that I don't.
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: I don't think it will take over take over gaming
• 57:54
  Speaker 6: be the only thing available. But it was such an
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: incredible experience for me to do this that if I think,
• 58:02
  Speaker 6: if it's cheap enough, and I think it gets into
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: enough hands, I can't.
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: See a future where this isn't a huge part of gaming. Personally.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think it goes back to how
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: people want to play their games. I know a lot
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: of people want to like stream and you know, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: they can wear their viewer headset and stream at the
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: same time. I mean, look, for example, Paudie Pie if
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: he were to do something like that. You know, I
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: think also it depends upon Sometimes, honestly, Joe, I feel
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: like I'm staring at a screen every second of my day.
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: Some days, which I probably am. I staring at it
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: either a laptop. I have four different laptops I have
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: to use. I have two cell phones, and I'm just
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: like when I drive, I also have an onboard computer
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: that's my GPS, and also collect cell phone stuff for me,
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: and it's just like, you know, I just I don't
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: have to look at that. But like driving is probably
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: the only time LEFTO I'm not staring at a screen,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: and I'm just you know, do I really wanna do
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: I really want to, you know, just keep staring at
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: a screen that's now gonna be like two inches from
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: my face.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: I actually played when I played that Batman game, it
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: was actually for for PS four. It was actually really
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: cool to look around the back cave and everything like that,
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: and you know, take a look at this or that,
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: and and my friend had that exercise bike thing where
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: you can put the VR headset on and you can
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: you know, you're in the Alps or whatever. Really cool.
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: But I just wonder if it's something where you're gonna
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: want to use it every day for the mom and
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: I know those people out there who would use it
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: every day, but for other people, I wonder if it's
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: just something that would What I'm trying to say is
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: I wonder if VR would end up just becoming a
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: real niche market, almost like three D became what I
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: think four K Blu Rays might become. Because I hear
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: four K Blu Rays and I and I honestly, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, how many people if I if I gave them,
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: like and you know a screen I said, pick out
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: the four K version, could actually find it if it
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: was the same TV with the same players with this,
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's just.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: We'll be right.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Back after a word from our sponsor and now back
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: to the show.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: Because I mean, if it's not shot in four K,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's not gonna look like four K. I mean, honestly,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: Mad Max Fury road shot in two K. I see
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: a four K release of it, and I'm like, why
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: it's not even it wasn't even shot in four K.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know they could do upscaling and stuff
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: like that, but I mean, really, you know what I mean, Like,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of this stuff's gonna end up
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: becoming a niche sort of market, if you that's just
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: my prediction.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: Oh, VR will definitely have to cross that hurdle, very
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: similar to what you said like three D, where I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: think one of the big reasons three D didn't catch
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: on as big as it did in a home market
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 6: is because of the glasses situation. You know, if you
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 6: wanted to get together because like I saw like demonstrations
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: as like three D sports games and those are really cool,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: it just looked like these little tiny people really on
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 6: your screen running around. But you know, like if someone's
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 6: trying to get together a group of friends and watch
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 6: like a like a basketball game or a football game
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 6: or something like that, I highly doubt they're gonna want
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 6: to put on a bunch of glasses and fiddle with
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: that and all let's get the settings right and stuff.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: So I think you're right to a certain degree.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: I think if VR wants to not just become that
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: little niche thing, they're gonna have to find a way
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: to a make it more financially available to everybody, and
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: b find a way that maybe they won't have to
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: have these big clunky headsets on the entire time and
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 6: make it more of a maybe a more integrated experience
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: where it's it seemed like less hassle.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: You know, yes, that is that is exactly right, man,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: with those three D glasses. I had a friend of
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: mine who actually bought a three D TV and he
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: bought four pairs of glasses. He bought it a one
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: Black Friday he had. You know, we went over there,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: we put on the glasses, we watched Avatar. Well it's
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: really cool, and I was like, you know, but after it,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, by the end of Less like,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: I'd rather just watch a regular two D movie like
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: I honestly, man, I'm old school in that method where
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'd rather watch an eighties horror slasher like
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: Jason Jason Friday The Thirteenth Part three. He tried, they
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: tried to make that three D and I was like, yeah,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: it's cool and everything where you know, the arrows are
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: coming at you with the one shot and this and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: that and the other thing.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: But I'm like at the end.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: You know, somebody once told me, good three D goes in,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: bad three D comes out. So if you're constantly like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: dodging stuff, that's you know, okay, that's almost like a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: wake up to the audience or that's like a cool
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: effect or whatever. But good three D, like Avatar was,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: it goes in and you can actually just see as
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: far as you can actually as the eye can see, literally,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: because it's just an immersive world back there, you know
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: what I mean. And and you know, that's one of
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: the things why I actually did like Avatar. I actually
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: was dating a girl at the time. We went to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: go see it, and she goes, that was terrible. I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: was like, I was like, shut up, what do you
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: know about it? I was like, this, shut out, what
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: do you know about movies? I said, I'll tell you
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: if it's good or not. No, I'm just kidding around you.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: But but but but but but she said, you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: she didn't like him. We were just talking about it,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: and I was like, you know, I'm a sucker for
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: James Cameron. But just to get back that we're talking about,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: you know, with with with all this stuff, you know,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: I just think yet having people having to put on
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: like headsets and stuff like that.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: It it becomes like a almost.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: Like a like you know, because some people are going
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: to say, oh, Greg, I put on this headset again,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: or I gotta put it away and they gotta find
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: it again, or it's just like something like they've misplaced it,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: or you know what I mean. It's just more things
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: that they're moving parts to a situation, you know what
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's a very akin to something. I mean,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 6: it could go either way because I mean look at
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: something like a like a computer tablet, right like like
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: when the iPad came out, people were scoffing because people
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 6: been trying to pitch tablets for years. I mean the
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 6: been There have been tablets that came out in the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: nineties and it just never connected with the public.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: You know, it just wasn't. They were too pricey, they
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: were too clunky.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 6: But Apple managed to make something that people wanted and
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: found a usage for. They brought back an old idea
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 6: and made it in a way that was consumable and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: made it in a way that people really really liked.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 6: So yeah, I completely agree. I think with VR and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: I think there are I agree that there are some
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: good uses of three D, but I don't think there
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 6: was enough of a of a difference. Like I think
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: one movie that used it really well that I saw
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 6: in three D was Pixar's Up, because like at the
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 6: beginning of the film, the three D was very flat
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 6: because you're living in his life where he's cooped up
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: and he's just this old guy, this widower, and and
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: he's lonely.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: And then like when he's out there in the middle.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: Of South America, like gets really deep and he's up
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: in the clouds and it feels big and vast.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: So I think people are.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 6: Gonna have to use VR like that, you know, like
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 6: I said, don't just tell a story about Look, you're
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 6: dying and now you're in a coffin, Like take the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: gimmick out of it and really focus on the exciting
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 6: storytelling potential of this medium and what can be done
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 6: with it. And and that doesn't mean you have to
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: play it safe, but be smart about how you use
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: it and use it in a way that that people
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: connect to.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right, Joe. It always comes back to the story.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: It always comes back to you know, what kind of
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: story are you telling and what what kind of emotional
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: core are we going with here?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: Because character, because people have to care about these characters.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: They have to be you know, not sympathetic, but empathetic.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: We have to empathize with them. And you know, and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: with the story you're telling, you know, it's just we
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: have to become hooked. And that's why I always get
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: pissed off Joe and people say, you got to hook
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: them in the first ten pages. No, you have to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: hook them the whole freaking story, not in the first
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: ten pages. Maybe the reader, maybe the maybe some reader,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: the gatekeeper I used to hook for the first ten
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: pages he or she passes. But from when I gather,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: most most gatekeepers who are script readers who have to
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: read those scripts, they have to read everything cover to cover.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: They can't read the first ten pages and say see,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: if you know, forget this and and and you know
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: what I mean, And they have to write a report
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: about it afterwards. They have through their weekend reads and
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: as well, and from what I gather, they have to
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: read every script cover to cover. So you have to
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: hook them the whole script. And you know, you have
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: to hook them the whole whole time, no matter what
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: you're doing.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: And uh, you.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: Know, as you talk about the experiences, that too has
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: a hook to it. You know, even if you write
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: a roller coaster, there has to be something special about
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: it that sets it apart, whether you put all the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: extra loops in, whether it twists and turns, whether you
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: sit down like the Superman roller coaster, all that good stuff.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean you know so uh yeah, you know,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: everything has to have you know, it's it's speciality. It's
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: it's you know, what makes it special. And you know,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: because Joe, I mean we you know, we've been talking
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: for about over an hour now, and I want to ask,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: you know, Joe, is there anything we could talk about
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: that you wanted to discuss now, or anything you wanted
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: to say to put a period at the end of
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: this whole conversation.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 6: Uh? No, I guess just as a whole like it's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: it's really good to talk about this kind of stuff
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: with people who who share your interests and and also
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: care about creating.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: And I think it's important.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: To to connect with with people who are doing stuff
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: similar to us. And I think you just you do
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: that so wonderfully on your show and you create this
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 6: conversation because there are all these people out there who
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 6: are making such cool stuff and it's so cool that
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: you bring a light to those things. And I just
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: want to thank you for creating that conversation.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you so much, Joe. I try my best, I,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: you know, with them with this podcast and everything like that.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: And one of the reasons I started this was because
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: I wanted to actually talk to filmmakers out there.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: And I got to meet great you no, great people
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: like you.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: I've got to you know, and I Honestly've got to
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: meet so many great people, and uh, I just look
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: at it as like this is the tip of the iceberg.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: And I also want to just keep moving forward with.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: This and in a lot of different ways, and you know,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: and start doing a couple more things and people people. Actually,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: you know, not to seguay too far away, but somebody
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: once said to me, what are you working on now?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: You know, you haven't worked on anything in probably a
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: few years, And honestly, it's it's I've been taking a
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: step back to take to take two steps forward. And
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: you know that's something I'm working on now is I'm
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: working on a ton of stuff, and uh, a lot
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: of cool podcasting stuff as well that uh, uh that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: I've been talking a few people about and hopefully, you know,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna hopefully do a bunch of stuff with that soon.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: And but I also got a couple of other things playing.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: But uh, but Joe, thank you so much, you know,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: for coming on. And where where can people find you
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: out online?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: If you go to pog Joe dot com p O
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 6: G I E Joe dot com. Uh, you can see
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 6: all the things that I've talked about. We have our
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 6: Prism trailer on there. There's I think I just put
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 6: a thing about the murder mystery game. Uh, there's links
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: to a podcast, and we're on all different kinds of
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 6: podcasting apps and sources and everything.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: My YouTube stuff is on there.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 6: So to see any of the stuff I've mentioned at
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: all during the show, that's probably the best place to go.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: And I will link to all of that in the
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: show notes. Everyone Joe does some really really cool stuff.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: And really I like that nickname too, Pogi Joe, and
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: you know, and uh, and he does some really cool
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: stuff and I'm gonna link to that all in the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: show notes. Joe Kolalski Poji Joe. I want to say
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming on, my friend.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: Hey, thank you so much. It's always a joy to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: talk to you.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. And you know I appreciate at least
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: one person wants to talk to me. But but thanks
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: you so much, Joe. No, it's really great and honestly, man,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: I can't wait to see what you're gonna do next.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: And I also will introduce you to that guy who
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: runs that film festival right now, I will shoot, I
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: will make a Facebook message introduction and get you two talking.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: Thank you. That would be brilliant. I would really like
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: to talk to him.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: Sure, no problem, Joe, Joe, have a great day and
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: I will talk to you very soon, my friend.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: All right, you want to.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Thank Dave so much for doing such a great job
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: on this episode. If you want to get links to
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: the show notes at any film uncle dot com Forward
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: slash seven ninety seven. If you haven't already, please head
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and leave a
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: good review for the show. It really helps us out
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: Guys.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening to guys. As always,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: keep that hustle going keep that dream alive. Stay safe
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 1:10:22
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• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: dot com.