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The Black Panthers at 60: You can jail a revolutionary, but not the revolution · The Real News Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I was reading Huey's dissertation for his doctoral called War
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Against the Black Panther Party, a study in repression in America.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: And in that, he outlined one COINTELPRO and COINTELPRO's systematic
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: attack on the party to the point of like, Eddie
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Conway wrote a book called The Greatest Threat Ever, outlining
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: how the federal government systematically targeted anybody, but more specifically
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: members of the Black Panther Party, to either isolate them
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: or kill them or send them to prison where they
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: served a death of a thousand cuts and then ultimately die.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Talk about once that information came out about COINTELPRO and
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: its involvement in destroying the party. How did that change
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: your views or how did that impact the political landscape
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: as you've seen it when it comes to organizing and
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: revolutionary ideology?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: It wasn't until 1970 that people officially found out what
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: COINTELPRO was. We always knew there was some kind of
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: program out there that wiretapped us, that how the FBI
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: followed us and set us up for different charges like that.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: But on a personal basis, COINTELPRO helped me. stay out
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: of jail. Now, COINTELPRO is not something they invented for
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: the Black Panther Party. It's something they always had going on,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: but they ramped it up three degrees because of the party,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: how the party came out, or how effective the party was, right?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: So in 1970, when these young anti-war people broke into
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: this post office in Pennsylvania, it helped me out because
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: at that time, Huey P. Newton was on Nixon's enemy list.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I am Huey P. Newton's personal aide. So when FBI
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: sees Huey, they see me. And so I'm a much
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: easier target than Huey. So they started using the draft
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: to give me, you know, the selective service. Now, this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: is the same method they used against members of SNCC,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: another organization that preceded us. They would Get the draft,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: select your service and start sending them letters to have
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: them drafted. You know, and you only got three choices.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Either you're going to leave and go to Canada, you're
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: going to go underground, you know, or you're going to jail. Anyway,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: any one of them stop you from being affected. And
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: that's what they wanted. They wanted to stop people from
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: being affected so they would hold this selective service thing
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: over their head. So what happened when they did the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: same thing to me, right? They arrested me when I
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: was with Huey after coming to court, right? So I
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: went to court for this draft evasion thing. The federal
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: government had three of their attorneys on my case, right?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And so what happened was this. They wanted to charge
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: me for draft evasion, but my attorney pointed out they
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: wanted all the documents, film, phone, anything connected with Bill Jennings.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: And they immediately dropped my case on the spot because
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: they were still they were still trying to hide the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: fact that they had a program called COINTELPRO, and they
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: didn't want to reveal it because of me, you know?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So they just dropped my case, you know? So I
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: walked away from that whole case because COINTELPRO was discovered,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and they didn't want to expose all the footage they
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: had of me and Huey together, because that's what they
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: were doing, the problem stuff on Huey, you know? I
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: just happened to be there, you know? So... Yeah. So
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: that's how COINTELPRO affected me. But a lot of party
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: members went to jail, you know, like Geronimo G. Jada
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: did 27 years. You know, they pulled him off the street.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: The FBI lied on him. They said he helped kill
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: someone in L.A. But at the same time, the FBI
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: was watching him while he was in Oakland attending meetings.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: They lied on the brother, you know, just like they did.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe about 35 or 40 Panthers went to jail. Maybe
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: 35 or Panthers were killed through COINTELPRO, you know. And
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: many like Fred Hampton were victims, you know. Mind your
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: own business. The next thing you know, law enforcement has
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: them in their clutches one way or another, you know.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So it was not easy being a party member during
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: those times.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And Eddie Conway, Eddie Conway was, they knew Eddie Conway
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: was at work when this incident happened. They went to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: where he worked at and the post office and told
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the people to say that he wasn't at work. And
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: then they planted a snitch in his cell or had one,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: you know, they had one of them snitches come up
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and say that Eddie said something. They had caused people
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to lie against him. To your point, that was their
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: methodology during that time. Like you say, They're going to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: get you through selective service. They're going to get you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: through income tax. They're going to get you any way, shape, form,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: or face. But talk about what do you think about
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: this recent group in Philly that called themselves the Black
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Panther and then switched their name to the Black Lions.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: And they're doing some organizing. They got a large presence
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: on social media. they can be seen engaged in mutual
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and exercising their rights through confrontation with the police. They basically,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: their strategy is being more confrontational. Are you familiar with
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: them and what do you think about them?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I am somewhat familiar with them. I get emails
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: from them, messages, but just recently there was a meeting
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: held in Philadelphia with Panthers, real Panthers, original Panther members
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: and members of the Black Lions, we suggested then that
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: they change their name because our legacy was built on positive,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: direct action in the community. This is our legacy. We
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: can't have any young group, we don't even know what
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: you believe, come and say you're a party member, right?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: The Black Panther Party stopped existing in 1982. So you
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: should come up with a name for your own legacy
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: so people can identify you because what you're doing, people
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't know who you are. You know,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: COINTELPRO and all that, you know, you might be good
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: at heart, but we don't know you. Start your own legacy.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Start from ground one. Change your name, you know, because
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: our name is built on our legacy of what we've done.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And we don't know what you're going to do, you know. So,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: you know, the Black Panther Party had 14 different, um,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: A medical facility, two are still open to this very day.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: One in Seattle and one in Portland. Right. You can
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: see the party still alive in groups like the Great Panthers.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: You know, they took up where the Black Panther Party
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: did left off with the senior citizen. The Black Panther
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Party had a senior escort service, you know, all these
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: different services the party provided. Three buses to prison program,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: you know, and the main purpose for that program was
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: to keep the family unit together. People have cars, but
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: many of the state prisons are far, far away. You
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: might have a car that's good for getting around the city,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: but getting on the freeway, your car might not make it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: So we provide these services to keep the family unit together, right?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it's good that the Black Lives change their name.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: It's good they're doing social work in the community, but
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: they also have to understand that... longevity. You know, dealing
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: with the police is good to have people who deal
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: with the police so the police know they can't run
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: roughshod in our community. I don't have anything bad about that,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: but that shouldn't be your main focus. You know, that
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: should not be what you're all about. You know, the party,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: blossom out past that, that's how we started getting community support.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Breakfast programs, liberation school, providing services for people. That's how
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: you get people to change their mind, their attitudes about you.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: They see what you do through your social practice.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: In that regard, Billy, talk about what would be your
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: message to you because you got a lot of young
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: people that's learning about the party. You got a lot
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of young people that's through social media, becoming informed about it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: And what would you tell them when they come up
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and say, okay, to your point, no, you're not a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: rich member of the Black Panther Party.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: No, you don't.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Have the right to say that in terms of like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: and then saying that's what you are. But what would
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: you tell them when they come up and say, we
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: want to change the condition, social conditions. We want to
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: do it in the same light that the Black Panther
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Party did it. What would you tell them to do?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I would tell them the Black Panther Party were operating
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: in the 1960s and we're in the 2026 era right now.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So we can't go back and keep doing stuff in
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the past. We have to come up with new ways
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: of doing things, right? A new attitude of doing things.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: You know, we set the table. you know, for all
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: these social programs to be embraced in the community, but
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: they have to take it from there, you know. They
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: have to take where we started and bring it into
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: their conditions now, And I would say to young people,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Get with another group that has your same ideology, your
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: same philosophy. If they're serving the community or working in
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: the community, work with them, you know, because we need
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to unify all of our efforts and come together, you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: educating young people, you know, having political education classes. Taking
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: people outside of the community, outside their environment so they
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: can see the bigger world and see where they fit in.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: You know, all those things are things that are doable things.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: You know, job training, telling people how to write a resume.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Those are those small things, but those things that help
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: because we have a lot of hardcore brothers who get
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: out of jail, who are not educated in the educational system.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: They need that kind of nourishment to, you know, to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: bring them up. That's what we should be doing, community
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: service to bring our people up, you know, and not
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: run away from the people. You know, the Black Panther Party,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: when we had social programs, we invited people to come
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: back to work. We invited a place for doctors and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: nurses to, if you wanted to get back to the community,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: we have a clinic here. You can donate four to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: six hours a week, you know. to have those facilities there,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: you know, or people in the community, or have a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: community meeting around issues in the community, you know. That's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: how you bring interested people together, you know, unifying people, and,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: That's... Yeah, and that's a good point, because they got
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: what they call the Malcolm X Grassroots Collective, I'm in D.C.,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and what they do every second and fourth Wednesday of
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the month, they have political education class. And their political education,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: they're not calling themselves something other than what they are.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: They're organizing. But what they do, they have political education class.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: And then the materials that they use, they use the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: materials that they learned about from the Black Panther Party.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: But talk about the 60th and what you got planned,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: what some of the things that you'll be organizing. for
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the 60th?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Whoa, well, that's a lot. Well, I would say the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: 60th is what my particular role is, is I'm sponsoring
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: a couple of workshops on chapter history, right? The Black
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Panther Party had over 40 different offices of the Black
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Panther Party. And There's a lot of history in these
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: different cities and geographical areas that we don't know about,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: that only the local people there knew about. So we're
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: trying to bring that history together so that people in
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Chicago will know what the people in Portland, Oregon was doing,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: or the people in Seattle will find out who were
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: some of the people that started the party down in Houston, Texas.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And with some of the programs, the Winston-Salem, some of
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the problems the Winston-Salem chapter deal with, because they were
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a chapter of the Black Panther Party that was actually
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: in the South, you know, because they had problems that
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of us, you know, didn't have in California,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: you know, so forth. But Chapter history. I'm doing some
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: tours of Oakland, like I said, to educate a lot
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of people who've never been there before. A lot of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: people come to the reunions. They bring their grandkids or
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: their great-grands. They want to show them what they was
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: involved in, you know, how all this thing originated. I'm
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: doing tours. I got a couple exhibits at the main
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: library in Oakland about Black Panther Party rank and file.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I have an exhibit open October 5th At the Alameda
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Law Library, which is across the street from the Oakland
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Main Library. No, it's across the street from the Oakland
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Main Museum. So that exhibit is going to focus on
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: the impact of the Black Panther Party on the law.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Because of the political prisoners, COINTELPRO, racism in the police department,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: all those kind of things. So I got my hands full.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And on the 16th, which is the last day of
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: the conference, I'm in charge of the day, a day
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: in Bobby Hutton Park.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Local hip-hop artists, poets, a couple bands. We're going to
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: provide music. We're going to have speakers come. We're going
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: to do it like we did back in the 1960s.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Tree music, food, music. you know, a joyful day in
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the community. Don't caution that. All you have to do
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: is bring your blanket, you know, sit out and hear
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: some speeches and hear some music and unify in the community. Okay.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Billy. Thank you, Abe. And Billy, we really
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: appreciate you taking your time out to, like, come on
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: and educate our audience about all things the Black Panther Party.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: More importantly, clearing up a lot of misconceptions about the party,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: what it stood for, some of the more subtleties of it,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: as opposed to, like, to your point, a lot of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the things that was distorted, primarily for the purpose of
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: disassociating it from people, getting people to look at it
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: in a different light. You came on today and educated
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: us on how the party really operated as, like Huey said,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: like y'all said, the vanguard in the community.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: The party's whole thing is to educate people. Right. I
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: had a young lady who worked in my campaign office
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: when Bobby Seale ran for mayor. She is now the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: mayor of Oakland. So I know that she knows about
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the 10-point program and all those things, you know. So
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: the party is about growth and development and stuff like that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: The Black Police Officers Association of Oakland was started because
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: of the Black Panther Party, right? Right. Because when they
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: shut up our office on 45th and Grove in September 1968,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: the black officers refused to help the white officers who were,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: who was suspended from their job for shooting at that office.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: And they started an organization, which is one of the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: biggest black organizations in Oakland, you know. But a lot
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of people don't know that history. But when we have
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: chapter histories, a lot of this history that happened in
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: those cities come up. We don't, you know. Right. who
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: are now in charge of state health facilities, you know,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: work at the medical clinic and stuff like that. So
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of roots where people came from. We
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: just have to talk about it, dig it up, and
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: document it for future generations. Because, you know, 17 years ago,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I was... Yeah, I mean, when I was 17, I
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: joined the party. Today, I talk to people from all
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: over the world. I just got off the phone talking
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: to the New Zealand Panthers, who are going to send
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: some representatives out here. They have 15 members that came
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: for our 50th. We have people from all over the world.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: We have Charlotte O'Neill coming in from Tanzania.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Her husband?
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: For over 50 years. Charlotte's going through our libations. She
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: has a film. She travels the world. We have all
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: types of pants that's coming in. So it's going to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: be a fun event.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: There you have it. You have the bars today. Look,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: you gave that roll out. And we thank you for
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: coming and sharing this information because like you said, at
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, after everything all is said
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and done, the party was about educating our people about
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: getting them to understand their right to self-determination and how
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to go about getting self-determination, understanding the contradictions, understanding social conditions,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and more importantly, organizing to change conditions. And it's a
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: tribute to the party. No matter what people say about
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the party, that is the lasting legacy of the party
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: is educate, educate, educate.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Billy. We appreciate you.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: How do you want people to get in touch with
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you if they want to get in touch with you?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: They can get in touch with me by going to
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: our website. It's about time, bbp.com, which there's a phone
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: number and an address on that website. But for the 60th,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you can go to bpp60. org for your latest update information
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: on what's happening with the 60th.