Latest / 100 Stories: The Narrative Intelligence Project / Teneia Sanders: What If You Get the Dream and Don’t Want the Life? — Identity, Burnout & Belonging

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Teneia Sanders: What If You Get the Dream and Don’t Want the Life? — Identity, Burnout & Belonging · 100 Stories: The Narrative Intelligence Project

• Paige Williams: Welcome to 100 Stories. I'm your host, Paige Williams. Come along with me as I build the emerging field of narrative intelligence. I'm interviewing and learning from 100 thinkers, builders, creators, musicians, healers, teachers. And together we are exploring a question at the center of how we become who we are. And that question is how malleable are the stories we live by, and what does it take to change one? What I learned through this series will help shape the field of narrative intelligence and the foundational book that I'm writing about it. This is 100 Stories. Today I am interviewing my friend, my sister, Teneia Sanders. And we are laughing our tushes off. Because Teneia Sanders: Yeah. Paige Williams: life is life and we are learning, right? And Teneia Sanders: We have learned a lot, yes. Paige Williams: we have learned a lot. And Teneia is a multimedia artist, a creative, a tarot reader. And we were just talking about how we've laid down the dreams of our childhood and 30-year-old selves and 20-year-old selves and and how freeing it is. And so I invited Teneia on the show today to talk about that, to talk about what happens when we grow up a little bit more. Teneia Sanders: Yeah, when our dreams manifest into adulthood and the adult has to adult them. Paige Williams: Tania, welcome to one hundred stories. Teneia Sanders: Thank you for having me, Paige. And I love and adore you. You are my Mississippi soul sister from the moment we talked on the phone. Paige Williams: Yes. Yes. Being with you is like being at home. And that has to do with a lot a lot with narrative. A lot with narrative. I just feel like being from Jackson, both of us were from Jackson, and both of us raised in the church, I don't know, it just there's something about it. Teneia Sanders: Yeah, it's it is home. It's one of those things where it's like somebody recognizes the dirt roads, the you know, the highways, the stores, it's the nuances and how we say things. And I think it's a relatability we have to each other. So it it it it makes us feel like we don't have to mask whatever southernness we normally have to do to interact with the normal world of people that don't get our slang and our you know who we are and and the the grit of that is I think it's so important for our story because when you come from Mississippi, it's one of the poorest states in the US, but you learn humor. And you learn the depth of reading a situation. So that's why we're storytellers. Paige Williams: That's right. And I always say the best artists come out of Mississippi because it's so hard that that is Teneia Sanders: It's true. Paige Williams: where great culture and great art comes from. so how did growing up in Mississippi influence the artist that you are? Teneia Sanders: my dad's a a preacher, right? So we're called PKs, the preacher's kids. And I grew up singing in church, my whole family. That's what we did. And I guess I found my creative spark there, like listening to church story, being in church all the time. I mean, we went to church like multiple times a week and it was like all day on Sunday, you know what I mean? So there was a lot, a lot to gather from that time. But it also became a part of like where I found my voice and where I I figured out phrasing and I I you know could just I don't know it was a scene for me. Church was always a scene and I always left with so many questions and my mom would say, you should have been a lawyer because you ask so many damn questions. You know what I mean? But there was a curiosity there and I think it came from wanting to understand more. And so Growing up for me felt like how do I find my own voice in a place that I don't feel like fully accepts me for who I am. but there's something to appreciate from all the things that we learn. Paige Williams: Absolutely How was it with your family and you? Teneia Sanders: Yeah, I think from a young age I was a a little bit of a a rare bird. They knew I was a firecracker. I got in trouble for talking a lot in school, you know, just always yapping, yapping, yapping. But I think they understood that I was creative but didn't know what that was gonna transfer into being an artist. So the struggle for them was trying to meet me in this artist lane when I was younger that felt kind of rebellious to them. And for me it felt like a calling. So there was a lot of conflict and my dad trying to understand the creative me and my mom trying to understand this wild child that is her child and me also. So I think I I I drove them up the wall and back down and around the corner a few times. But they have a great appreciation for those things now. Paige Williams: I love the pictures of you with your parents because you can just tell they just adore you. And they're like, She's special. She's Teneia Sanders: Ha ha ha. Paige Williams: special. They know it. Teneia Sanders: I think they they love me where I am and I think that's one of the the best things that you can do, not for who they want me to be at this point. And I and maybe Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: we all had to learn the hard way. So the the Paige Williams: Totally. Teneia Sanders: love and maybe earn, I don't know. Paige Williams: Yeah, we don't j j we don't just grow, Teneia Sanders: Yeah. Paige Williams: our parents grow too. Like we help them grow up. Teneia Sanders: I agree and learn different things. And I I think Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: that's where we get to be these maybe change makers in our own families. Paige Williams: Yeah, the artists, the black sheep, become the healers of our families, I think. Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. I agree. Paige Williams: Tell me a transformational story from your life and how that story, how you tell that story has changed over time. Teneia Sanders: I would have to say it was transformational because it was who I became after the fact. But I never thought I was gonna get married. Like I was always the person that was like, that does not seem like it's gonna be my thing. But I did. I got married and I was really excited about it and really gung-ho about the marriage and it did not work out. And I was devastated during the divorce. I was just I couldn't wrap my head around it. But the person that I became throughout that process became this woman that's so much more powerful to take risks, like all of these things that I thought I couldn't do. Maybe I wasn't as good at at business or I wasn't as good at taking risks by myself. I did all of that, you know, and now I look back and it's like I've been to over twenty-three countries. I've started, you know, you know, released an independent mini documentary. I've, you know, travel by myself and done all these interesting things that I would not have done if I hadn't have gotten divorced. So the divorce was really a catalyst for me to meet a deeper part of myself. And since that it's been this kind of fascinating ride with like learning different parts of my creativity, learning different ways of dating and just just meeting myself in all these more, I guess, curious ways. Paige Williams: Yeah. And you re s well, not recently, but you're living in Spain. You're in Teneia Sanders: Yeah. Paige Williams: Jackson, then you went to New Orleans, and now you're in Spain, and you've gone through this huge transformation of almost just dare I say, laying down the guitar. And the dream Teneia Sanders: Yeah, yeah. Paige Williams: of Teneia Sanders. So tell me Teneia Sanders: Sure. Paige Williams: about that and how that shifted and how your stories that you tell yourself had to change in order to go through that change and what happened. Teneia Sanders: Spain for me honestly became this intuitive thing. So here here's a I'll give you the cookbook of the story. I knew I wanted to live in Europe. Like it was a bucket list always for me. And when I turned 40, something shifted for me. And throughout my whole career, everybody was like, You need to be torn in Europe. They'll love you there. They'll love you there. And so I had gotten an opportunity to go with Hatch. We went to Switzerland and I got to get on stage at the Montreux Jazz Festival impromptu. And it was like this manifestation moment for me where I was like, I want to be on that stage. And two hours later I'm on the stage and I'm like, holy shit. And I get a standing ovation and I'm like, this is it. This is what I'm meant to be doing right now. And so I went back and I started talking to my family. I really want to move to Europe. Really wanna move. And then another friend said, I think Spain would be the place for you. So I kept kept that in the back of my mind. I ended up here on another tour and came to Barcelona and just it was like my heart was like, This is your place. And all of these little things just kept happening that redirected me back to Barcelona. And so it's been this place that's a had a like a call to my heart in some way, like the country of Spain. Spain called me and tour called me in this massive way where I was on stage touring with another artist and getting in front of 20,000 people and doing all these really, you know. interesting tours at interesting places throughout Europe. But for me it was not what it looked like. It was what it felt like. And I was exhausted. I remember coming off of the first tour and I'd done three tours back to back and it looked so glamorous. I've been to Asia and I've been to all these places and a friend was like, your life looks so amazing. And I remember I had no feelings at that point. I just felt empty like It does, but why don't I feel that way? Why don't I feel like I just accomplished all these big things, these big things. And so I really had to sit with that. And I think underneath it, there's something really glamorous about being on stage. But there was something that was calling for me to make a life that was a full creative life that didn't cause me to keep having to wander over and over again and not have a sense of belonging. And so that's what Spain is teaching me of how to belong without the identity of just being a musician. Paige Williams: So your whole life you're like, I'm gonna be on stage, I'm gonna Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: write songs that people are gonna sing. You arrive, you have twenty thousand people crowds, and you say, Mm mm, actually this doesn't feel right. Teneia Sanders: Yeah, I feel like it was a moment. I was touring with another artist artist, right? So it wasn't like my big audience, but it was still the moments that you dream of. You the child Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: in you, the inner child that has this vision of like, once I get to play in front of that many people, it's gonna change this part of my brain or something. Like everything's gonna click. And so in a way, the inner child in me was looking for that moment. And then it was like that moment happened, and then I got on a plane at six AM the next morning and did another show, you know, and it was like it was cool until the next thing, until the next thing. And in psychology, I think it's like a kind of a treadmill achievement. So it is a thing that we're all kind of getting the next dopamine hit. So in a way, it was kind of like I needed to put myself in a a pleasant dopamine jail. Like put my artist in time out and see who is she if she doesn't have this identity to lean on, right? Fat has just been a fun thing that's been freeing for me. Paige Williams: And who is she? Teneia Sanders: She is more intuitive. She's more introverted and quiet. she likes building community with people that are interested in learning more. So I just got to be on the planning committee for the Juneteenth celebration here in Spain, the largest one Spain's ever had black community celebrating our Freedom Day here. And that was so fulfilling because not only did I meet other black people, Lord knows you need to meet other black people when you're in a foreign country and you're black. You need to find people that look like you that have different like the similar experiences. And then on top of that, we build something that was just so great for the community and for us to connect. So that felt like wow, that's an arrival point of my soul journey that doesn't have to come with a title for me winning Paige Williams: So landing and community and belonging changed the story that you had been running for years. Teneia Sanders: Yeah, I think I was looking part of me was maybe looking for that on the st in the stage so which you have for a snapshot of a moment. You really do. But it's just a moment. And so how do you create long lasting relationships that feel nourishing, like that you can go back and replenish and build a garden somewhere? And so I think that was the thing. It's like picking a slower approach to revisiting myself. of not giving her so much pressure to be to the next thing. It's like just put her in timeout. Timeout girl. Paige Williams: call this moment the hallway Teneia Sanders: Ha ha Paige Williams: when we're between what we were and who we're becoming? Do you feel like you're in that moment? Or do you feel like you have become all of yourself right now? Teneia Sanders: No, I'm definitely in the hallway for sure. And it it is a dim little light. There's some little lighting in there and I don't know who I'm becoming, but I do like the questions that I'm asking myself. You know, they're different. They're not what's the next thing to accomplish? It's like what's gonna be the best thing for my nervous system moving forward? What can I do now with the body I have today at forty three, not the body I had at thirty eight. So revisiting, you know, who I am now. And I think the c my questions just are getting a little bit better and let's see if you know, the answers will follow in the the hallway. Paige Williams: what stories did you absorb about who you were and what kind of life was possible for you? Teneia Sanders: growing up in Mississippi, people often think we're not gonna have a lot of opportunities in life. Like that Mississippi doesn't have its own culture. So for a lot of people in in the US and people outside of the US, they don't know that we actually have a legacy of music and famous writers and art and culture and like this huge part of American musical history. So I feel like I didn't learn that even until I was old enough to understand the quality of art that we put out from the state of Mississippi. So great. the other thing I think it was like that you'll ideally be judged always from being From Mississippi is not being smart enough, not being good enough, and not having the intellect to back up whatever you're doing in life. And I think it makes us a little scrappy in a way. It's made me a little bit scrappy. And I appreciate that in a way, Mississippi gives an underdog you know, tone to it, but it backs it up with these legends that we of the things that we've been able to accomplish and produce. Paige Williams: When you say I'm from Mississippi, do you feel proud? Do you feel shame? What do you feel? Teneia Sanders: I feel proud. I feel I feel so proud. And I think the reason why is because I know the quality of heart that we have. You know, you try like when I you travel and you meet all these different people, but there is nothing like meeting a good home person from Mississippi, the quality of our heart. You already know you're in good hands. So for me, there's a pride of wanting to explain where our value and our spices live Mississippi. You know what I mean? I'm like, you don't you don't have a clue how we party and how like great our community is and like how great our food is, you know, and our our music. Like what? It's like so I'm always willing to brag on our state for that reason. Paige Williams: Agree. Have you ever written a song that changed the story you were telling about yourself? Teneia Sanders: one of my favorite songs that I've ever written is called Finite. And it is a love song that I wrote to myself. And, you know, I talked about my divorce being this transformative time. But what really came out of that is like, how do I take all that love I'm giving to other people and put it back into myself? So I wrote this love song for myself that I feel like helped me redirect, I don't know, my own story of like You have all these other beautiful qualities that we should just focus on right now. Like let's just focus on you. And every time I play that, somebody comes up to me and they're like, This is my favorite song. I love the love song you wrote for yourself. Because I think people identify with finding a way to celebrate who they are. And and at a time where you're for me, I was in so much pain, like heartbreak. like how do you write something positive? You know, I can write the other songs I want to write, you know, the breakup songs, the hardcore songs. But then how do we go to the softer part? And I feel like I found the softer version of myself in writing that song. And from that point on, it's been like a a fun little dance of of of finding all the ways that it plays out. Paige Williams: That is beautiful. How how does that song feel now when you sing it? Well, before you put yourself in the hallway. Teneia Sanders: Right. How does it feel now? I think it feels for me, mature. Like Paige Williams: Hm. Teneia Sanders: I've met a mature version of myself that is is living through the song now. Like before it was kind of like who I wanted to manifest myself to be. And because I was in pain, there was this friction there. But now I'm like I live in the story, you know? So it feels like it feels like it's alive for me now to be in in finite. Paige Williams: that's beautiful. Teneia Sanders: Thank you. Paige Williams: How does l living in Spain change the story of who you are? Teneia Sanders: I've been talking to another American friend about this, and it's been swirling through my brain. there's so many things. So a first thing is identity. Mostly nobody asks you what you do in the world when they meet you. They're curious about where you're from, they're curious about other things, but then your job doesn't come up in the first meeting, which is such a different cultural approach. than we are in the US and so a lot of value is placed on your title there. And here that that's not so much. the other thing is people take more time in their day. So if you go meet a friend for coffee, you're not just going to Starbucks to grab a coffee and and whatever else. You sit, you drink coffee, you talk for hours, you spend time together, you may start at one o'clock and then end up at eight o'clock and you've had dinner and you've done all this stuff, you know. It's such a more spacious culture. people walk a lot more. So you get to meet I meet people on the street, which I think is so fun. Like it's such this different way of connecting. and then from healthcare, I'll just the last thing I'll say about here, I could 'cause I could go on and on about like how the many things I love about being here. It's so great. But, you know, I I've had some things that I really need to go to get checked out from doctors and and the healthcare system here is amazing. So it's like I leave and I'm like, I don't have to pay anything, like what? Like so there's all these things that are go like slowly deprogramming my brain to really think about like human access to just caring for one another and taking more time. I think it it it's still ravels me at time. I'm like, how do you do this? You know, I feel of like a fish out of water, not overworking and over stressing. So yeah, I'm learning a lot. Yeah, yeah. Paige Williams: What is moving overseas revealed about which parts of your identity are truly yours and which were sh the parts that were shaped based on an old story or the places you've come from? Teneia Sanders: Yeah. this is so good. similar to what we were talking about, like your identity is not so much a huge part of who you are, like your career, whatever you're doing, isn't a big part of that here. But I think the other thing that I'm recognizing is like so many people move here to reinvent themselves. So all of the women's workshops I'm in, all of the like networking things, it doesn't matter. Everybody's like, I just moved to Barcelona because I had this life change, whether it's a divorce or whether they just wanted to move out of the US and have a different quality of life. Everybody is here to kind of reinvent themselves. So there's this fresh energy of like you can kind of be a new person and that's okay. Like and so that's where I get to be like a tarot reader here. Like in the States, only my closest friends knew about my tarot hobby, right? Like my obsession. Now here people are like, you're the tarot lady. You know what I mean? And it's like so fun that I get to be identity of like tar, you know, with a tarot thing attached to it, right? And that shows the lightheartedness of of kind of what I'm walking into here. Paige Williams: what role do you think tarot plays in the stories people tell about themselves? Teneia Sanders: it becomes a tool to offer people something within themselves that they are are in conflict with, you know, whether it's Paige Williams: Right. Teneia Sanders: for forgiveness or whether it is like not feeling like they're enough or in competition with I need to be doing more and more and more and it's like, babe, I think you need a nap. Like I think you need I think you need to just read and take more naps and not start eight more hobbies. You know, it's stuff like that. And then they go, wow, I don't have to overdo or I can really listen to myself. So it's a moment to have them really hear a deeper part of themselves and that is the beauty and the word. Paige Williams: Yes. And when someone and when that card is pulled and and we give it meaning, where do Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: you think the meaning comes from? F from the card, the reader, the person, the story they're already carrying? Because really when we're pulling cards, it's archetypes. Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: Okay, I'm gonna let you fill in the blank 'cause I could go on and on about tarot. Teneia Sanders: No, I love that. I think it's it's all all, right? And so I think we wanna compartmentalize, but a part of what I love doing is if I have a person across from me, right? Physically there, I like for them t we'll talk about the question, to touch the cards and pull the cards themselves. So we can both experience their intuition on board and my intuition on board. Like I feel like you need to what's coming up for me with this partner is communication and then they I'm like pull a card and then they pull communication and that is something so divine, right? It's like you're you're connecting with each other and it's almost it's not like telepathy, but it is energetic. And so I feel like it comes from there. It comes from their own source and intuition and it comes from me being a reader that can get out of the way and meet them where they are in the moment. Paige Williams: So I read tarot for people Teneia Sanders: Mm. Paige Williams: and pull for myself. Teneia Sanders: Yes. Paige Williams: And there is something so powerful about Tarot. So Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: I want to ask you, what is the power of the cards for you? Why is that the creative outlet you're in right now? Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. two two reasons. So if we're talking about identity shifts, I have two parts to me, right? The outer part, the tiny, the the rock star on stage, but I also have this whole inner world that is so important to this part of me that's in the outer world. So my inner world gets to kind of shine the things I do behind the scenes, the meditations, the the chanting, the prayers, the tarot. So tarot becomes this tool for my inner self to be like. How can I help this person, you know, sort through whatever they have going on and maybe lighten things? Maybe I'm just here to give them hope today. It it just becomes the interpretation of the card becomes the the tool to deliver the message. So it's what's your style of messaging? You know what I mean? And mine is like clear audience, but also very tactile. I like to be there with people and feel what's going on. So it tarot is really just a a tool. And I use other cards too. I use African goddess cards. I use like affirmation cards. I mean, so it makes it a really fun journey. It's not heavy. We don't have to Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: stay in heavy land, you know. I'm not we're we're really in solution land and that's what I love about it. It gives you inner wisdom solutions instead of just it always It can be practical and it can be both. And that's the the freaking dichotomy and joy of tarot and cards. Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: Yeah. And so when you pull for yourself, do you pull, I'm just curious, do you pull a daily spread like one card per day? Or do you pull you know, how's work gonna go today? Paige Williams: Well, I don't pull often for myself and when Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: I do it's because I have a question. to me it's all about the story I'm telling myself and writing the new story. Teneia Sanders: Yep, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Paige Williams: I'm seeking permission to write a new story for myself when I pull tarot. Teneia Sanders: And that's what you're trying to say. do I have permission today? Or how am I supposed to rewrite this new story for myself? Or what emotions do I need? You know what I mean? Like it's such a it's a fascinating thing because it it's a conversation back. And I think that's why I like tarot. It's it it gives you information that you can work with and mull over. you know, like I'll be walk on a walk somewhere and I'll find like little playing cars or tarot cars turned over and I'm like, that's a message for me. You know, it's like these fun little moments where I I I feel like tarot just becomes like a part of your intuitive little gadget, you know Paige Williams: Yeah. And it totally makes sense to me that you and I as storytellers use Tor Tarot to know what how we're moving through the world. Each card is a story and and it's visual. And then we get to Teneia Sanders: And his visual. And his visual. Exactly. Paige Williams: lay them down for people and say, Okay, here's the story I'm seeing, so that they awaken more or come to some understanding about a deeper understanding about themselves. Teneia Sanders: Mm. Paige Williams: I love it. Teneia Sanders: It's I I pull so right now the card I'm pulling is the world card, which is about the ending of a cycle. Yeah, yeah. Paige Williams: yeah, yeah. Teneia Sanders: That's my card right now. Yeah. Paige Williams: No, tell me tell me about your experience with a card. I know it but Teneia Sanders: I Paige Williams: people might not. Teneia Sanders: yeah, so the world card is it's about like culmination of things, ending like a wrap up, you know, it's like I have finished a cycle kind of card. And I use that as a tool when it this is interesting. So the divorce I was talking about, I went to a tarot reader and I had her read for me. And the first thing she said, she does her prayer and she said, The first card I got is the world card. This marriage is over. And she was so dead on and right. And so now when I think of the world card as attached to the story for me of endings, like whatever this is is culminated. It can be good, bad, and new we all put our human expectations on what's good and bad. At the time, it felt harder, but what she gave me was a tool to look at the world card in this way of like how it shows up in real life, you know? So I think for me now it's like. a wrapping up of the projects I have, a wrapping up of this chapter. Just finished like you know, my first six months of school, right? You know, so it's like those things, like it's time for a new chapter. And I think that is a beautiful thing. So it's just showing me that I've completed the the challenge, so to speak. Paige Williams: That is so interesting because I think of the world card in a totally different way. I do too. Teneia Sanders: I love this. Okay. I wanna hear your interpretation. I'm curious. Paige Williams: See, I think Teneia Sanders: of Paige Williams: of it as the world is my oyster. It's opportunity. Anything is possible. So when you Teneia Sanders: I love that. Right. Paige Williams: said I keep pulling the world card, I was like, yeah, because right now I feel like the world is open for you. Anything is possible because you're no longer carrying this old story of I have to be Teneia Sanders, the rock star right now. And so when Teneia Sanders: Right, right. Paige Williams: you lay down that story, anything is possible. The world is your oyster. Teneia Sanders: Yeah. I Yeah. I mean it it I what I love is like it's our interpretation, right? Paige Williams: I would have said, maybe the world is not about endings, maybe it is about that anything is possible and I'm limiting my thinking. And what I'm curious about is the initial interpretation of the world card. Because this gets right into narrative intelligence. The stories we tell Teneia Sanders: Mm-hmm. Paige Williams: ourselves about anything, a pen, what it's for, a glass of water, what it's for, eyeglasses, what it's for, is what we believe. And then we interpret the world and carry stories based on that initial interpretation. I love your interpretation. Teneia Sanders: Yeah. Paige Williams: But it's interesting, like we just saw narrative intelligence in action because we associate Teneia Sanders: Right. Paige Williams: meaning to an object and then we create a story based on it. That's why I love tarot. It is the Teneia Sanders: Mm. Paige Williams: human experience of believing what we tell ourselves. Teneia Sanders: Yep. And where it basically shuts us down. Like, hey, it's kind of like when a person is like, Well, I still gotta do that and they're like, Well, you already did that. It's like, no, I gotta go back over it. I gotta keep going back because swords for me are mental cards. They are not physical, they're mental. So if I see seven of swords, somebody's lying about something. But it also can be a deception within oneself, right? Like there's still more. There's still, you know more to do before this chapter ends for me, or there's so more that I have to accomplish mentally, right? And it's like, well maybe these are wants. Maybe it's more creative than that. Maybe things move faster if you approach it from a way of not like I have to mentally resolve this. Maybe Paige Williams: Yeah. Teneia Sanders: it's a creative solution instead. You know what I mean? Paige Williams: Yeah, we never know how long we're gonna be in that hallway. Teneia Sanders: Exactly. Paige Williams: That's where the work Teneia Sanders: I know, I know. Paige Williams: When you hear the words narrative intelligence, how would you define it? What would you say it means? Teneia Sanders: Hm. I think the core is the story we're telling ourselves of who we are, who our identity is. And it's like so if your your narrative about yourself is like lower intelligence in the fact of like I'm never gonna be enough, I'm not here, I don't have what it takes. But it's like the the point is to change the narrative, the story that we're telling ourselves. So I think about narrative intelligence is that is how to use the wisdom that you have through your mind to change your own inner narrative. Paige Williams: I love that. But I wanna ask you, where did that courage and audacity to be a performance, to say, I am Teneia Sanders the artist, and now I am to Nia Sanders in the flow tarot reader, where does that come from? Teneia Sanders: Said this to somebody the other day. I really feel like there are people in life that are born with this fire, you know, and there are people that aren't. And I think that's where creativity comes from as this like inner push to be like, I know I'm not gonna, you know, hit every traditional mark. That's that's not gonna be me. But what I am gonna do is have the courage to be myself. through the skill that I have and this gift that I've been given to show hopefully a a deeper part of myself with people and then connect with it. So that's what I really feel like art is like having the courage to to be your bring your full self to the table. Paige Williams: gave you that courage. Was it ever even a question? They did not require cur if you Teneia Sanders: I don't think anybody gave it to me. It's interesting. I think people encouraged me in a way throughout the time, but I don't I wouldn't say anybody gave me the courage. I feel like it's like a part a weird hardware wiring thing where some people are just like, I think I'm just gonna do that, you know? Like every idea I've ever had that's felt crazy to somebody else. I've just had the courage to be like, I'm gonna figure out how to do it. And so I think it's not a person, it's more me pushing myself from my own inner wisdom. Maybe there's things on my to do list on this soul, you know, journey that I'm like gotta get that done, you know? And and maybe that's how how it shows up. It's in a way of courage. Paige Williams: The reason I ask is because it took me so much work over the last four years to become all of myself and to become in front of the camera. I wanted Teneia Sanders: Mm. Paige Williams: to hide behind it. and so I'm asking for myself and for those who feel like, I'm supposed to be out in front of people, but I'm so scared and I'm I'm just so scared. And so that's why I I want to learn from you on that. Teneia Sanders: Yeah, I think we're all gonna have cringe moments, right? And I think it's just do it anyway. Like I put up tons of content and I'm like, should I even put this up? I'm like, I'm gonna do it anyway. And I and I think it's a part of like gaining that muscle of letting yourself be seen because really it's it's a way of like not not letting all of ourselves be seen. So The question would be different for me. It would be like, are you just open for people seeing a little bit more of you? You know? And I think that gets people there instead of having to have like a lot of of courage in a way, it's like, well let's just open the door a little bit. Five percent? Ten. You know, you know, I I think that's the that's the the way. Paige Williams: I love that. thank you so much for being on the show. It was so delightful to have you Teneia Sanders: Mm. Paige Williams: and to go through this with you. my God, I can't wait to see what happens next for you. Thank you for being a part of it. Teneia Sanders: Thank you for having me. Hugs and love, my friend. Paige Williams: Before we close, here's what I'm taking from this conversation about narrative intelligence. Tania reminded me that sometimes the story we have to change is not a story of failure. It's the story of the dream we once thought would save us. She got the stage, the crowd, the travel, the version of the artist's life she had spent years imagining. And then she discovered something harder. The life can look like the dream and still not feel like home. And what changed for her was not ambition disappearing. It was the question underneath it. Instead of asking, what's next? What can I accomplish? How far can I go? She started asking, What actually nourishes me? Where do I belong? What kind of life does my body want now? And then Tarot She got the stage, the crowds, the travel, the version of the artist's life she had spent years imagining. And then she discovered something harder. The life can look like the dream and still not feel like home. And what changed for her was not ambition disappearing. It was the question underneath it. Instead of asking what's next, what can I accomplish? How far can I go? She started asking, what actually nourishes me? Where do I belong? What kind of life does my body want now? And then Tarot gave us this beautiful example of narrative intelligence. She and I looked at the same card and we saw different meanings. Neither interpretation existed in the card alone. Meaning emerged through our own memory, through experience, expectation, and the story each of us already carried when we pulled that card. And that feels important. We are always interpreting a card, a divorce, a country, a career, a dream. Ourselves. And sometimes the most freeing question is not, is this story true? It's, is this still the story that I want to live inside? Tania, thank you for reminding me that laying down an old dream is not always giving up. Sometimes it's finally making room for the life that is actually asking to be lived. Take the narrative quotient assessment at storiedkeys.co. And subscribe to 100 stories, the narrative intelligence project, wherever you listen or watch. Thank you for joining us today.