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“Davos confessions.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: In studio.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: In studio.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: What a pleasure.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: It's a real frequent occurrence here in 2020.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, we're going to talk about the first
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: few days of Donald Trump's impeachment trial, how it's affecting
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the 2020 primary, and where the race is with less
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: than two weeks until Iowa. It's like one and a half.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. That's what I would say.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Later, you'll hear Dan's interview with
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Desmond Meade of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, who's fighting
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the Republican effort to keep returning citizens from voting. We
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: also want to give a huge congratulations to DeRay, Brittany, Clint, Sam,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and the entire Pod Save the People crew. for taking
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: home Best Political Podcast at the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards last weekend.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: This crew is brilliant, inspiring. They're doing incredible work every
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: week on their pod. So if you don't already, make
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Do it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Why aren't you subscribed? That's fucking crazy. That's a great question.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: This week they talked to Brittany Young, who uses the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Baltimore dirt bike community to inspire interest in STEM.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: That was a plot twist.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: That was a plot. I bet you didn't see that coming.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I did not.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: That's what happens on Pod Save the People. It's all
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: kinds of interesting topics. Also, we have an announcement. We
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: have a brand new newsletter coming from Crooked's editor-in-chief, Brian Boitler,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: called Big Tent. Big Tent.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Circus coverage.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: That's right. Every Friday, Brian will walk you through the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: latest developments in the Democratic Party's journey to take back
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the White House in 2020 and talk about all the
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: debates within the party, what matters, and what's at stake.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: The first newsletter comes out January 31st, but you can
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: subscribe today at crooked.com slash big tent. I'm excited for
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: this one.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I'm excited as well.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Dan, you have an Untrumping America announcement for us?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: We do because it's 2020 and it's before February 18th,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the date the book comes out.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's coming fast.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: This is almost like an announcement. You're telling me, brother.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: This is like an announcement. It's a pre-announcement, I guess
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: you will. We will announce next week all of the
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: tour stops. We are going to be traveling all over
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the country, including many battleground states.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Smart.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: It's important to go there.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: You don't want to miss one, so I've heard. But
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: before that, I want to flag just two events because
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: they were the first two events that are coming up
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: relatively quickly, which is on February 19th, I will be
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: at the 92nd Street Y, New York City. And on
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: February 20th, I will be at the Six and I
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Synagogue in Washington, D.C., two places that I was fortunate
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: enough to visit during the last book tour, and they
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: were great events. You can get your tickets now. You
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: can find more information on those events and some of
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the other forthcoming ones at untrummingamerica.com slash tour.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Excellent. All right, let's get into it. The House impeachment
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: managers have begun their opening arguments, and here's the front
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: page of the New York Times after the first day.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Democrats present scathing case for convicting Trump. I'll take that headline.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: No time. As you know, once the headlines are right,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: we win. That's how it's worked in politics.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I can feel the momentum shift in Starbucks. Actually, they
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: don't even sell... I.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Don't know where you can find a hard copy. Adam
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Schiff and six other impeachment managers presented about eight hours
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: worth of evidence detailing Trump's scheme to cheat in the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: 2020 election by pressuring a foreign government to announce a
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: phony investigation into Joe Biden. But the core of their
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: argument on Wednesday was basically directed towards a handful of
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Republican senators who might vote with the Democrats to subpoena
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the documents and witnesses the White House has blocked. It
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: was an argument made very powerfully by Adam Schiff, particularly
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: in his closing statement. Let's play the clip.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: One of the things that's been so striking to me
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: about that as I watch these witnesses like Maria Yovanovitch
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: and Ambassador Taylor and David Holmes and others, Dr.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Hill, is how much.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: These dedicated officials were willing to risk their career, the
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: beginning of their career or the middle of their career
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: or late in their career, when they had everything to lose.
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: But people senior to them who have every advantage, who
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: sit in positions of power, lack that same basic commitment,
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: lack that same basic willingness to put their country first
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: and expose wrongdoing.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Why is it that.
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: Colonel Vindman, who worked for Fiona Hill, who worked for
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: John Bolton and Dr. Kupperman, why is it that they
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: were willing to stick their neck out and answer lawful
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: subpoenas when their bosses wouldn't? I don't know that I
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: can answer that question, but I just can tell you
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: I have such admiration for the fact they did. I think,
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: and I think this is some form of cosmic justice,
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: that this ambassador that was so ruthlessly smeared.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Is now a hero for her courage. There is justice
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: in that.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: But what will really vindicate that leap of faith that
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: she took is if we show the same courage.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: They risked everything.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Their careers.
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: And yes, I know what you're asked to decide may
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: risk yours too. But if they could show the courage,
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: so can we.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Dan, how do you think the trial is going so far?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I actually have a lot of.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Deep breath.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, deep breath. I have a lot of, I think,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: complex emotions about it. I watched a bunch of it yesterday.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: And.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I think the first emotion is pride and pride in
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the Democrats from Schiff on down to everyone involved in
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: this process because they are standing amidst an epic shit
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: show of dumb fuckery that is American politics in the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Trump era. And they are treating their jobs with the
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: utmost respect for the process, the constitution, the gravity of
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: the moment. They are being serious. They are being thoughtful.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: They are performing their duties exactly.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: As you would expect.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Then it makes me fucking insane that the Republican Party
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: gives zero fucks about any of this. Some of them
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: can't even be bothered to sit in their chairs long
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: enough to listen to it. They keep saying, I'm not
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: hearing anything new while voting to prevent the introduction of
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: new evidence.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Which is said to reporter after reporter, which is the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: stupidest spin I've ever heard in my entire life. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I would call it that, except it seems to be
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: working on a whole fucking... cohort in the media.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: It's getting regurgitated because stenography is a huge part of
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: journalism in the Twitter age where you get a quote
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and then you tweet the quote out and where you
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: can't put context in 280 characters. Then it makes me,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess fear is my third emotion
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: on this, which is we're sitting here with like a
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: crystal clear, perfect example of abuse of power. Perfect example.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And the evidence could not be more clear-cut. The president's
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: chief of staff has admitted it on camera. The president
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: has admitted it on camera. The president has tweeted it
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: out for posterity. We all know what happened. And one
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: half of our political system, the part, refuses to acknowledge that.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And the reason that is scary is we are in
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: a situation where a majority of the country believes this
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: president committed a crime and should be removed from office.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: And that president received 3 million fewer votes, and he
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: is being protected by a Senate majority that is represented
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: by many fewer votes than the Democrats. And so you
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: have this, you have sort of minority criminal immunity for
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a president who can't win the popular vote. And that
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: says something about the state of American democracy that is
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: much bigger, I think, than whether Trump is going to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: get a slap on the wrist or get removed from office.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: It says we have a giant problem in this country.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of debate since
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Trump became president about how our institutions have held up
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in the face of a quasi-authoritarian, at best, quasi. But
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party is a major institution in American politics,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and it has been completely destroyed. I mean, they're not
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: even putting up any kind of legitimate defense. They're not trying.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: They're treating it as a joke. They are offering contradictory
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: explanations every other day. It's a fucking joke what they say.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, it is so completely obvious how guilty
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the president is of what they are alleging he did,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: and they just don't fucking care. And not even the people,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, and you can see, look, Susan Collins,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, maybe Lamar Alexander, maybe a few
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: others may vote for witnesses and documents, but you can
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: tell even if they take that vote, It is a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: vote to appear somewhat reasonable because they are going to
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: take the ultimate vote to acquit the man. And they
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: want to at least appear reasonable to get the documents
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and witnesses.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't see any. And we don't even know
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: if they'll take that vote. but you can see their
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: political strategies telling them, well, you need to be an
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: independent voice. You need to look like you have some
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: distance from Trump. If you want to win a tough reelection,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: if you're Susan Collins, or if you're Cory Gardner, or
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: maybe Martha McSally or Tom Tillis, but it seems unlikely
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: with those two. So here's one way to show some
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: distance from Trump, vote for the witnesses and documents and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: then vote to acquit. But it doesn't seem... I don't
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: know unless Mitt Romney surprises us or Lamar Alexander or
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: someone who's not running again or who's very, very safe.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I don't see anyone voting to convict this man.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. And I will also be fucking
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: knocked on my ass shocked if they vote for witnesses.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: If enough Republicans vote for witnesses, I will be.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I still have a feeling they might.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I hope you're right. The yin and yang of this
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: podcast is your optimism, my pessimism, so... We will see.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Not because I believe that they are like deep down courageous.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like they would be saying their comments would
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: be different to reporters right now if they were going
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: to vote against it. Like they just, I don't know
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: why if you were at Romney and you were ultimately
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: going to vote against it, you say things like, I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: want witnesses and I'll probably vote for witnesses. Like, I
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: don't know why you say that if you're going to
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: not do it.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: And you could get like the ideal scenario that McConnell
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: is working towards is giving Susan Collins and Cory Gardner
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a pass, but not having witnesses. He has margin of
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: error here.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So he leans on, like, Lamar Alexander at the end
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: to not do it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, the color of the jersey is the most important
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: thing here. And when McConnell goes to them and says, look,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: we have two options. We can either have the president,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: who's at the top of the ticket, while all of
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: your friends here are up for re-election, deliver the State
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: of the Union acquitted, or deliver the State of the
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Union under the guise of impeachment, you pick. And we
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: sometimes think about Congress in these grand theories of constitutional
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: obligation or even complex political strategy. And it's often, is
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the person you sit next to about lunch going to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: be nice to you? There are friendships at play here
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: within parties that really impact things. And when people, particularly
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: people like Lamar Alexander, who obviously is no fan of
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Trump and is basically leaving the Senate to avoid working
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: with Trump anymore. His choice is to take a personal
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: stand that could make life worse for Martha McSally or
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: anyone else or cause Chuck Schumer to be the majority leader.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: My gut is he will do the opposite. I hope
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong. I think we should pressure the living shit
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: out of them because the only way to change it
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: is to change the political calculus for everyone involved.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: The other observation I had over the last couple of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: days is just, this is sort of a perfect example,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this trial of, how broken the media is. And I
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily mean like reporters not writing headlines we want
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: or like taking their spin or all this kind of stuff.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: But like, I was very busy the last couple of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: days and I did not have time to watch all
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: of this unfold, like watch hours and hours of speeches
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: on C-SPAN. And I remember thinking to myself like, well,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: what am I really missing? Like we have heard this
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: case laid out in the house extremely well by Adam
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Schiff and others. Um, And then prepping for the pod
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and yesterday I started watching some of it and found
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: myself getting so outraged all over again at how right
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the case is against Donald Trump. And I realized that like,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: you know, if every American sat down and actually watched,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: even if you just watched Adam Schiff's closing speech, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and not the rest of it, we'd be in a,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I can't help but think we'd be in a bit
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of a different place. But like, what's the I don't
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: even know what the media is supposed to do, because
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: it's like every news channel supposed to just like cover
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: what's going on on the floor live constantly and offer
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: no commentary and no stupid punditry and just like let
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: it go the whole time, because I don't even know
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: if that would capture Americans attention, you know, but I
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: just I guess what it said to me was it's
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: so difficult to capture anyone's attention in this country for
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: a sustained period of time anymore. And that redounds to
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the benefit of Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: That's right. If you were to design in a laboratory
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the absolute worst way to persuade people to take a
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: position on an incredibly complex issue, the worst way would
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: be nine hours of consecutive live television that takes place
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: during the workday. I think the broadcast networks deserve credit
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: for doing the right thing here.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: A lot of credit.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: For airing it. That costs them money. given what the
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: prospects of the outcome are, they have made what I
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: think is the right... We talk a lot about how
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: business drives journalism, but this is a decision that puts
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: journalism over bottom line. So they should get credit for that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I think 90% of the press coverage of impeachment going
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: all the way back to when this broke six months ago,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: eight months ago, whenever that was, has been great. I
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: think the you know, coverage of the impeachment hearings that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Schiff conducted and Nadler conducted were very, very good. There
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: are obviously examples that are terrible that then we have that, like,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I don't really know how to solve this problem, but
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a bad thing happens. And then we like a bad story,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: a focus on whether Josh Hawley is being sincere when
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: it comes to Jerry Nadler has hurt his feelings. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: then we all yell about it, which then gives the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: algorithm to show it to more people.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: This is partly why I'm trying to yell less about
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: this stuff.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: At least on Twitter. I yell about it here.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: So, but, but you raised the biggest problem, which is
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: the way the system is currently working is advantaging Donald
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Trump and disadvantaging Democrats. And this is something I spent
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of time on in my book. Um, it's
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: something I've been thinking about and wrestling with. It is
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: driving my new year's resolution to not get engaged as
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: often in specific media coverage, like complaints about specific stories
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: or specific reporters or headlines. And more about the systemic
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: problem with the media. But I think the big difference
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: is Republicans understand how to hack the mainstream media, how
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to take advantage of its loopholes, its culture, its tendency
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: for balance over accuracy to get their story out. But
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: they don't rely on the mainstream media to get the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: story out.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Because they have their own communication channels that they built
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: over the last couple of decades.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: They have, obviously, Fox News, but these huge platform advantages
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: on Facebook with these conservative pages with large numbers of
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: followers that are showing their content to more people. But
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: they also had billionaires who were spending money to take
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: a clip like we just used about Schiff, to take
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: the reverse of that and show it to the voters
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: they care about.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: And we are not doing that. And it's not because
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: there aren't smart people who think that that's what we're
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: supposed to do. It's that we are at a massive
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: resources advantage. We like, we are struggling collectively as a
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: progressive universe to find the dollars we need to wage
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: this presidential election alone, let alone, you know, so how
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: do you also do this?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I will say just going back to shift speech, which
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: reminded me that even with everything we just said being
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: true about the media, sometimes just a good speech is
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: still very powerful. You know, Chuck Schumer, um, went on
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow right after the trial ended yesterday and said,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: for all the, like, Republicans getting out of their seats,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: not paying attention, all this bullshit, for the last 45
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: minutes when Schiff spoke, every single person, every set of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: eyes was glued on Schiff and it was very quiet
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in the chamber and everyone was paying attention. And then, um,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham apparently sees Schiff talking to reporters as he's
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: walking by and stops and said, um, that was, you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: you did a really great job. You're really well spoken, which,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: infuriates you, obviously, but is also, you know, it's pretty amazing.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And I do wonder for the people like Murkowski and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: who this morning said to a reporter, it was very thorough,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the presentation so far, did not say she was upset
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: about anyone being mean or anything like that. You do
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: wonder that with a few senators, does that have an effect,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: you know, in the end on whether they vote for
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: witnesses and documents? Maybe not. Maybe not because everyone forgets
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: everything that happened more than five minutes ago.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you guys talked some on Monday and
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: we've been talking off mic for a while now about
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: McConnell's strategy here. And the reason why I think he
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: is proceeding the way he is and why it was
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: so important for him to move to get people to
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: agree to do the quote unquote real vote on witnesses
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: later is it's a pretty common crisis communication strategy. that
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I refer to as horizon extension, which is in the
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: heat of the moment, immediately after Lev Parnas and everything
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: else and Bolton saying he's going to do it, there's tremendous,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: there's this tremendous pressure to do it. But if you
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: can move the decision, the result, whatever it is to further.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Kicking the can down the road.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: That's another way of putting it. Kick the can down
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: the road to further in the future when there is
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: less pressure and people can become more acclimated to the
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: idea of no witness if you have a better chance
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: to do it. It is, We do not have to
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: accept that reality as Democrats, as you guys talked about
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: on Monday. There is a real role for Democrats to
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: play here in the states with the core set of
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Republican senators who happen to be both potential votes for
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: witnesses and very vulnerable to put pressure on them because
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: those senators are going to need, to get reelected, are
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: going to need the votes of some number of people
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: who believe that Donald Trump should be removed and that
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: there should be witnesses.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: So, Let's just talk about how the Republicans are handling this.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: You know, on Tuesday night, they were whining that Jerry
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Nadler was being too mean because he accused them of
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: recover up, which they're doing. By Wednesday morning, they were
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: complaining that it was boring, that there was nothing new.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: After they voted 10 times against new evidence and witnesses,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: they were complaining that nothing new. And then, you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: by the afternoon, some of them are just leaving the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: the Senate floor. They were back in the chambers. They
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: were just hanging out, not listening. Just from a political standpoint,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: don't you think the Republicans' behavior and resistance to witnesses
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and new evidence is more politically damaging than at least
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: pretending to take this seriously, sit down, listen to all
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the evidence and witnesses, and then vote to acquit him
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: later and still vote to acquit him?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I actually think, you know, I know McConnell's always a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: genius because he's always an evil genius, but I don't
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: know that it's that even politically smart for them to
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: act like this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, part of this is driven by the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: perverse incentive structures of being a Republican when Donald Trump
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: was president.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Which is the obvious best way.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Which means you bend the knee all the time.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And you have to, and if you don't, you will
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: be beheaded.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: And it is, like, The Democrats went through a very
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: similar situation with the Bill Clinton impeachment trial. Very similar.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: The outcome was never in doubt. But we were looking at,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: for reasons that I can't really explain other than procrastination,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I dug deep into the 1999 CNN USA Today Gallup
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: poll about what voters thought about it. And it was
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: something like eight in 10 voters thought Bill Clinton had
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: committed perjury. A huge majority thought he had obstructed justice
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: by trying to influence the testimony of Monica Lewinsky and others.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: And two-thirds of Americans thought he shouldn't be removed from office.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So very similar political context in that way. Difference, second term, obviously.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: But there were differences in how Democrats in the Senate
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: handled it. One, as we said before, Tom Daschle, who
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: was a Senate Democratic leader at that time, refused to
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: speak to the White House about anything. There was no
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: coordination of strategy. Democrats also, to a person, said Bill
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Clinton's conduct was reprehensible, but it didn't rise to the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: level of removal.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Which, and didn't Bill Clinton basically say that himself?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, he eventually, well, after much obstruction.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I can't remember this completely. This was like one of
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: my first political memories in high school.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had to give.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: So I have a vague memory of everything that happened
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to Clinton.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: He eventually admitted it in a nationally televised address.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: But was that after the impeachment?
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: It was prior to... I can't remember the exact timeline,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: but it was before the trial.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So it was before the trial.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I think it was after his... It was the day
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: he had to give his deposition. It was before impeachment.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: It was the day he had to give his deposition
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to Ken Starr and admit Well, yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, imagine what the place we'd be in if
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Trump said, I did something wrong. I apologize. And all
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the Republicans say he did something wrong, but it's not
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: worth impeaching him over. We wouldn't even, I mean.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess that was sort of the point of
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: this long discursive trip into your high school years was
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: the most obviously in a normal world politically preferable position
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: for Republicans would be, I disagree with what he did.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I thought it was wrong. President shouldn't do that. But
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: it did not reach the level of removal, particularly 10
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: months before an election like that. That is even like,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I disagree with that position. I think it flies in
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: the face of what the founders intended, but it is
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: a position, right? Like head in the sand is not
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: a position.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: No, it's not.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: It's fine.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you mentioned the polling back in the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Clinton years, you know, 69% of people want new witnesses,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: including a plurality of Republicans. Pew came out with the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: poll yesterday. Trump's approval is at 40% approved, 58% disapproved.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: 70% say he acted unethically. 63% say he broke the law.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: 51% say he should be removed from office. So it
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: is like you said, it's funny that you go from
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: 70 and 63 down to 51. But then, you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: there's now been some polling out in some of the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: states where Republican senators are up in 2020. Maine, for example,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: a Democratic pollster found that 53% of Maine voters believe
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: that Trump is guilty of abusing his office. Independents believe
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: that by 57 percent think he's guilty of abusing his office.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Thirty six percent don't. And then 71 percent of Maine
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: voters say it's important for senators to insist on documents
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: and witnesses. You're Susan Collins and you see those numbers.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: What are you thinking? You're thinking, fuck it, I just
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: am going to ride this out or no one's going
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: to care by the time November comes around.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Probably that. Probably no one's going to care about time
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: in November. This is going to be flushed down the
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: memory hole with everything else. And I think her bet
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: is it's more likely that independent and moderate Democrats forget
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: about her vote against witnesses than base Republican voters forget
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: her vote against Trump.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And I guess, you know, someone pointed this out, but
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: what a lot of these Republican senators are dealing with
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: right now is timing, which is this is before the
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: filing deadlines for primaries in a lot of these states.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So if they voted against Trump or voted to convict
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: him or voted for new witnesses' documents, they could all
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: get primary challengers last minute.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sort of skeptical at this point.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of like someone to mount a campaign
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: in like two or three months. It's kind of crazy.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: But I guess they're still in that, they still have
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: those concerns. Although, you know, my thing is every one
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: of these, Susan Collins, if you look at her own
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: campaign messaging, it's Susan Collins has been an independent voice.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: She's been bipartisan. She's different, all this kind of stuff.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: at least from her perspective, her campaign believes that in
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: order to win this race, she needs to show some
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: distance from Donald Trump. I think if she does what
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: we think she's going to do, I think even if
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: she votes for witnesses and documents and then John Bolton
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: testifies that it was in fact a drug deal and
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: then she votes to acquit Donald Trump, people may forget
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: about it by November, but I'd be damn sure if
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I was a Democrat to do everything I possibly can
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: to make sure they don't forget about it and it
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: becomes one piece of evidence in a larger case against Collins,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: this vote, the Kavanaugh vote, the tax cuts, everything else
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: she's done to align herself with Donald Trump, I would
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: make sure everyone knew that was happening every single day
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of the campaign between now and November, if I was
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Sarah Gideon or whoever else ends up running against Collins.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The main example is interesting because it's going to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: very hard for Susan Collins to run away from Trump.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: And maybe her team knows that too. There's a thing
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: you can say in your television ads, but ultimately, given
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: how narrow the electoral college margin is likely to be,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Trump cares a lot about the electoral vote in the
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: second district of Maine. People forget Maine splits its electoral votes.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Although we won that district in 2018, that's traditionally been
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a Republican district, and he is a very Trumpy district demographically.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: And so- he is going to be there campaigning and
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: on the ballot. Cory Gardner, Trump is not going to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: campaign in Colorado. He is at least an opportunity to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: have some distance, but Donald Trump's going to show up
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: in Maine, most likely. There will be Trump ads on
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: the air in Maine. There will be Trump digital ads
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: in the air. And so that is going to put
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: her in, I think, in an interesting position that makes
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: it where I think she may be casting her a
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: lot with Trump.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: But I think like for some of these people, like,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: you know, Martha McSally in Arizona, that state's, you know,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: a state that She lost the election in 2018. She's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: only in this seat because she was appointed. She lost
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: it to Kyrsten Sinema, partly because Kyrsten Sinema was able
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to paint Martha McSally as someone who was too close
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. And she's out there saying that, you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: a CNN reporter is a liberal hack and then posting
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: videos so she can raise a bunch of money. Like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it might raise money from her base right now,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: but I don't know if Martha McSally is playing it
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: too smart either.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: When I did the wilderness focus group in Phoenix, it
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: was with Romney Clinton voters. So these were more moderate people.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: And the one thing they kept saying was not only
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: did they not like Trump, but they couldn't believe that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the party of John McCain, this is what they kept
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: saying that, you know, the John McCain people in Arizona,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: they could not believe that Martha McSally and all these
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: other Republicans were just blindly following Donald Trump, whatever he
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: does there. They just wanted some Republican to show some
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: distance from Donald Trump.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I think the question, I think it's a very real question.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: which is ticket splitting is at an all-time low and
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: getting lower. And so if you are Martha McSally, how
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: many of those Clinton Romney voters are going to vote
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: for you? How many people are going to vote? Biden, Bernie, Pete, Klobuchar, Warren,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: whoever else, and McSally. Isn't your better bet to strengthen
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Trump as much as you possibly can and make sure
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: he gets as many votes as he possibly can so
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that you can ride on those coattails? That is probably
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the best political strategy. And it could be political suicide
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: for someone like Cory Gardner or Susan Collins. But that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: may be the best political strategy in an incredibly polarized
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: political environment, which is going to have record turnout like
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: we have never seen ever. I think it might have
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: been that same Pew poll, but there is 71% enthusiasm
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to vote in this election in January. That is almost
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: twice what it has been in January of previous elections.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about how Trump is handling all of this.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: The president is in Davos. which is where you go
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: when you're standing trial for extortion and cheating. And on Wednesday,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: he did himself and his defense team a real solid
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: when he said, quote, I thought our team did a
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: very good job, but honestly, we have all the material.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: They don't have the material. Yeah, that's the whole fucking problem, dude.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: That's what you're standing trial for. Do you think he
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: realized he basically confessed to withholding evidence and obstructing justice there, or...
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Was he just bragging about it? Did he not mean
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: that document?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I truly believe that Trump does not believe that laws
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: apply to him.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah. Right?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, that has been his attitude his entire life.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And so it's like, this is just a contest. And
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I have the advantage. I'm doing what it takes to win.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: And here's why I'm winning. And without any concept of
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: that you were admitting to lawbreaking because winning is an
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: end in and of itself.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe that that's not all we're talking
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: about today. It's like... We've had these moments where Trump
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: confesses something or Mick Mulvaney goes to a White House
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: press conference and he confesses something. They just don't give
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: a shit.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is something we've talked about a lot
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: in the Trump era, which is the sort of institutional
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: biases of the media prize things revealed in secret more
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: than things in public.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And so the.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: The reason the whistleblower blew up was because it was
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: this secret person who had revealed this secret thing that
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: was being provided anonymously to people. And so there was
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: this Watergate-esque deep throat mystery to it. And when Trump
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: admits the same thing publicly, like we've said this before,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: if you took Trump's tweets and turn them about pressuring Mueller,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: firing Mueller, getting rid of Sessions, if you.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Turn those from tweets- To secret documents?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to secret documents- If you email them to John
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Podesta and then put them up on WikiLeaks, they'd be
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: front page stories. But because Trump does it in public,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: we don't have a, we've never dealt with someone so
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: brazen and so stupid to admit all their crimes in public.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: So we don't know how to handle that as a
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: political culture writ large.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So while he was in Davos bragging to CEOs about
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: how he's made them richer, Trump sat down for an
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: interview with CNBC and And when he was asked if
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: entitlements like Social Security and Medicare would ever be considered
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: for cuts, Trump responded, quote, at some point they will be.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: It'll be toward the end of the year. The growth
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: is going to be incredible. At the right time, we
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: will take a look at that. It's crazy to think
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: that the most politically damaging thing Trump said yesterday might
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: not have been when he confessed to obstruction of justice,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: but that when he said he was willing to cut
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Social Security and Medicare if he wins a second term, right?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: To the extent that Trump has a subconscious, it is
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: possible that it does not want to be president because
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: he keeps doing things that are essentially ritual political suicide
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: for someone who runs on a populist, a bullshit populist,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: but a populist platform or a populist message, I guess.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's insane. It is an insane thing to say.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: It is 1,000 times more insane to say in Davos,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: a gathering of the wealthiest people in the entire world
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: i mean.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: After he he right before that he was talking to
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the bank of america ceo and was like aren't you
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: happy with your uh with your the stock market right
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: now i should have bought some shares but i wasn't
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: able to like bragging about how he's made them richer
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: with his with the fucking tax cuts and the stock
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: buybacks in davos in davos imagine if barack obama.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, a reporter texted me two days ago and said, hey,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: my editor's asking, why did Obama never go to Davos?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, to the reporter's point, they, like, knew, like,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: it was sort of a rhetorical question, right? But it, yeah,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, never. Could you imagine? Like, I know
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: we can't.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I guess it's like Nixon in China, right? Like, only
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: working class hero Donald Trump can truly go to Davos.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Actually true it's actually and then we're just like this
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: is amazing rich people who got massive tax cuts and
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: freedom to pollute are happy with donald trump he's winning
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: them over big win for donald trump's like you fucking
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: morons have learned nothing since.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: 2016 but look i i was screaming about this yesterday
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: on the social security and medicare thing and you know
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it was really good to see priorities usa which is
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the largest super PAC on the democratic side right now
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: say that, you know, they put out a whole memo
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: about this, of how damaging Trump's position on Social Security
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: and Medicare is, not only with Democratic voters, but with
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Obama-Trump voters, with other swing voters, independents, you name it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Except for Trump fans, Trump's base, it is extremely unpopular,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: maybe the most unpopular position he can take. And yet,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and all the Democratic candidates made a statement on it,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: which was great also. But It's not something that when
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: it happens, we talk about a lot. It's not one
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of those things that gets picked up on Twitter. Like
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: you don't get a lot of retweets for talking about
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: fucking social security.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And that is what guys are.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: But like none of these things ever go viral.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: And I just I wonder, like, I don't know how
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: many times we can say how important it is to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: talk about the fact that Donald Trump is going to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: take away people's health care, cut social security and cut
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Medicare and Medicaid in this election and how politically damaging
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: that is. for all that we scream about everything else
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that he does, as we should.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the challenge of being a Democrat,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: is the things that matter the most to the voters
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: that we need to persuade are things that do not
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: benefit from the algorithmic choices of social media platforms. So
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: the only solution is to put money behind it.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Which, by the way, we should say, the Democratic Party
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and Democratic candidates did very successfully in 2018. We talked
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: about the caravan at the end. We talked about Brett Kavanaugh, right?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Like that was the national media was basically consumed with
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: both immigration and the Kavanaugh fight. But meanwhile, on the ground,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: every Democratic candidate was putting money behind healthcare ads and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: it worked.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: My suspicion is we will see money behind this, both
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: in the short term and in the long term when
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: we have a nominee. And I suspect a huge part
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: of the message will be that Trump wants to cut
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: your Social Security, cut your Medicare, cut Medicaid, raise your
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: health care premiums to pay for more tax cuts for
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: rich people like him. I suspect that that is going
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: to be the thrust of the argument around him. I
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: am struck, as we talk about these things, by something
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Josh Warren, who works for Priority, said, which is, if
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: you have an idea for a digital ad, can you
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: also have an idea for where that money comes from
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: for digital ads? So I do think about it sometimes
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: where it's like, in all these places, there are very
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: smart people doing these things. And this is not like
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: when we yell about why aren't there ads about this?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: It's not really, I don't know what it may sound like,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: but it's not us yelling at democratic groups that exist
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: that are working on this. It's sort of us yelling
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: at super rich people. Yeah, it's yelling at super.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: But also, look at Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren's campaign.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: We're in the golden era of grassroots fundraising. Like, you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: if Priorities USA or anyone else said, hey, there's a
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: good idea for a digital ad, could we crowdfund this?
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Let's raise X amount of money in 24 hours. you
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: know damn well they would raise that money.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on how many times you do that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a longer conversation. I have a
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: lot of thoughts about maybe some things we could do
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: here to be helpful. But I think that the press
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: is not going to carry this message for us. Twitter
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: is not going to carry this message for us. Facebook
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: is not going to carry this message for us. Democratic candidates,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: political organizations, party organizations are going to have to do it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And actually, I have confidence that they will.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: And I should say, you know, it was very good
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: news back on the impeachment front. It was good news
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to see Mike Bloomberg change all of his ads over
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: to impeachment ads in the time being.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Were they all of them?
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe I didn't read closely. I thought it was all
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I really want to... I want to get to the
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: bottom of this, right? Every time I read this story
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: that says, you know, whenever there is a gap in advertising,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: the Bloomberg team tells reporters that they're going to do
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: their ads to it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: And.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I've been watching a lot of football recently and a
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: lot of basketball. And I see a lot of Bloomberg ads.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: And they're all pro-Bloomberg, which is 100% his right, his money,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: his campaign. I have yet to see a negative Trump
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: ad on television. And that may be happening in swing states.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Usually his ads have like 10 seconds about why Trump
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: is bad and then it pivots to Bloomberg.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: It's like Trump is a person and I'm a better person.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: But it's not an anti-Trump spot.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: And I will periodically go into the Facebook ad library
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: and And try to find the, as one does, as
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: one does, uh, to try to find the negative ads.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: And there are some, so I would love just like
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: some be awesome for the next time. There's a story
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: about this to say.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: What states, what ads, how.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Much here's the ad, like even putting the ad out
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: would help it be seen because people would share it socially.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: So like, I'd like to know what that means. And
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg has an opportunity, a $ 10 million opportunity in two
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: weeks to use a very large platform.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: To carry a message. That's right. Well, we should tell everyone,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: if you don't have a couple billion dollars laying around
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: to run ads on impeachment, you can put the maximum
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: pressure possible on, you know, Susan Collins and Cory Gardner
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and Tom Tillis and Martha McSally, Mitt Romney and Lamar Alexander,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: if you want as well. Like, I do think we
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: already saw Mitch McConnell be forced to sort of shift
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the rules of the trial a little bit in Democrats' favor,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: not much, but a little. And, you know, the votes
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: on new documents and witnesses is still very much up
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: in the air. And you can make a difference by
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: calling Congress and really putting the pressure on. Hopefully, as
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: we get closer to the vote, there's also some rallies and,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you know, people protesting as well, because I think that
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: could have an effect. All right. Let's talk about how
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: impeachment is affecting the Democratic primary. with less than two
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: weeks until Iowa. Senators Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Amy
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Klobuchar are all stuck at the trial, leaving the state
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg. Meanwhile, primary polling hasn't
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: given us much more clarity since we talked about it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday's episode.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Less clarity.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Less clarity, if that was even possible. There were four
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: national polls released on Wednesday. Three show Biden in the lead,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: but CNN showed Bernie in the lead for the first
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: time with a gain of seven points since their December poll.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: There have also been a couple of good, really good,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: in the case of the WBUR poll today, New Hampshire
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: polls for Bernie, but no new Iowa polling. Though, just
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: as I was about to come record, I think you
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: were talking to Desmond Meade, Dan, Saturday, February 1st, the
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: last Des Moines Register poll.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Two days before the caucus.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Not only just a poll released on the Des Moines
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Register site on Saturday, Dan, it's going to be a
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: live television special on CNN.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Cool.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: So we'll, we're going to be in Des Moines.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: We are going to be in Des We're going.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Why is it America's going?
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: And, um, will there be some local watch parties at
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: the CNN show?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just hope we can, uh, that's, that's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: going to be fun watching that and making fun of
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: it too. If it's, if it's anything like, um, remember
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the CNN live show with, where they drew the, uh, Debate?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you will remember, we.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: We were about to do a show, I think.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: We were about to do a show. We were very
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: dismissive of it. And then, towards the end, we were
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: 100% bought in for the final drawing.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: And then we talked about it for like 15 minutes
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: on our live show.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in the end, they were right and we
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: were wrong, which is a hard thing to admit. And
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that may happen again.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So where do you think the race stands at
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: this point? And what do you think about all the
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: polling discrepancies?
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: This seems like an obvious thing to say, but I
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: have no idea. And no one does either. It seems
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: like it is a... that there are four candidates with
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: very realistic shots of winning Iowa. And I would sort
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: of discount to a certain degree the New Hampshire polling,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: at least among the top four.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Which is what's going to happen in Iowa, I think
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: is going to have some pretty dramatic effects. It's going
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: to cause some resorting. You may have candidates who don't
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: get a delegate in Iowa drop out or lose support
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: in New Hampshire. But it seems like this has come
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: down to a very close race between four candidates. Biden, Bernie, Buttigieg, Warren,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: with Klobuchar still in the game with two weeks to
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: go here.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: And Bloomberg just lurking out there for Super Tuesday.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Yes. Lurking.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Just spending that money. And clearly Biden and Bernie have
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: an advantage over the others.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, just all the data points to that, even
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: though it's very unclear.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And so I think that That is where the race is.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Things can move dramatically. I mean, in a sort of
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: scary way, that Des Moines Register poll, it has a
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: self-fulfilling prophecy to it, which is it can have an
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: effect on sort of moving undecided voters or supporters of
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: candidates who are not near the 15% viability threshold to
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: head to the winner. And Obama actually benefited from that
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: because two or three days before the Iowa caucus 2008,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: the one register poll came out with Obama up by seven.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And that was very influential. It creates a momentum narrative,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: which is very important at the end of a caucus.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of momentum narratives, I do think that belongs
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to the Sanders campaign right now. Um, whether it's warranted
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: or not in the data, um, which if you, you know,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of ways to look at the data and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: plenty of the polls to look at to, to see
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: that it is warranted that he does have the momentum
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: right now. Um, You pointed out yesterday an interesting Nate
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Cohn piece in the New York Times about why Bernie
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: has been gaining ground and has fewer obstacles between here
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and the nomination than he did in 2016. Basically, no
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: one attacked him. The media didn't take him too seriously, again.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: And he raised an insane amount of money. You agree
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: with all that, or is there anything else you want to.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Add to that? I 100% agree with that. And it's
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: very curious... that we have no idea when any of
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: these campaigns have cash on hand right now.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like everyone had good second quarters. Bernie obviously had
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: an incredible second quarter. Biden had a much better second
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: quarter than before. But Biden had $ 9 million cash on
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: hand at the end of the previous reporting period. And
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Bernie had like $ 30 million. And that's a huge factor
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: as we move forward. And to understand Biden's long-term viability post-Iowa,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: like if he can get to the states that are
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: demographically better for him based on the current set of polling,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: does he have the money to get there? And we
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: do not know the answer to that. And I think
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: it's a big one because Hillary Clinton in 2008 had
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: a very similar trajectory to Biden financially in the sense
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: that she raised good money, less money than Obama, but
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: she spent money at a very high rate and was
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: basically bankrupt after Iowa and New Hampshire and had very
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: little in the tank to run real campaigns once you
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: got to Super Tuesday and the caucus states that came
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: after that.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Which is basically why we won.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: That's correct.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: You know, we've talked a lot about some of the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: other candidates and, you know, we've talked about Bernie in
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the primary. What do you think about Bernie Sanders as
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: a general election candidate, since it is probably more likely
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: now than it has been?
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is like this is a hard question
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: and I would have that same sort of pause slash
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: sigh for any of them, for any of the people
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: we've talked about, because.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: It's just funny because so much of the Biden case
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: from the beginning has been well, Biden would be the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: strongest general election candidate. And a lot of people disagree
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: with that, mostly all the other campaigns, but that's sort
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: of been the narrative around Biden.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: And there's been polling evidence.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And there's been polling evidence. Yeah. But I think even
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: if you look at the polls, the general election polls,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that Biden still has an advantage in the
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: general election against Trump vis-a-vis all the other candidates. But
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: right behind him is Bernie Sanders.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: If you're going to use polling to make the case
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: that Biden.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Which changes all the time and all the caveats. All
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the caveats.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: All the caveats. But if you're using polling, as the
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Biden campaign does, and I think fairly, they say like
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: 70 consecutive polls have shown Biden beating Trump. By that metric,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders is the second most electable candidate. There is
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: a separation in many of these polls between Biden and Bernie,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: and then between Bernie and whoever is next, usually Elizabeth Warren.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I think I was listening to your conversation on Monday
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: about the social security fight between these folks and the
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: importance of having conversations around the general election vulnerabilities of
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: the candidates. We should hash these things out now. And
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: there were two things that I took away from that,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: that if I had been at the table, I would
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: have interjected with and perhaps- Well, now you get your chance.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: That's the chance. And it's like, I'm just- Love it
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: might walk in, so hurry up.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: That's right. Is one- All the stuff around impeachment that
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: was sort of discussed about baggage for Biden, based on
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: the metric we just mentioned, there's no evidence that it
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: is actually baggage for Biden. He has not suffered at
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: all in these general election matchups.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: With basically a massive conservative nationally televised campaign by the
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Republicans to paint Biden as corrupt.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And an extremely high awareness among voters of that campaign. Yeah,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: it is a- So it's not like it's not, people
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: aren't paying attention.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: We have hashed it out, and I think- It could
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: change when there's billions of dollars spent on it. But
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: as of right now, there is no evidence that the
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: smear campaign against Biden and his son Hunter has made
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: him less electable, whatever that means. I think it is
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: also true that we have not, there has never been
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: that conversation around Bernie, right? And Bernie does, like all
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: these candidates, has vulnerabilities. And he has tried to address
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: some of those around socialism, which is a, that is
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: a real vulnerability. That is not- And perhaps the biggest
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: of any of the candidates running. Now, a vulnerability can be.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And again, we should say why. I don't necessarily think
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: it's because his positions themselves are too far to the left.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking the last couple weeks that if Bernie
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Sanders had just called himself an independent, maintained the exact
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: same positions he's had his entire life, he would be
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: more like Sherrod Brown running as a general election candidate.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Just like a sort of gruff folder guy who's you know,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: economic populism right from the get-go. And I said this
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: back when, you know, Bernie Sanders gave what I thought
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: was a very good speech defending democratic socialism, minus the
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: fact that he calls himself a democratic socialism because he
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: placed himself squarely in their tradition of the democratic party,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: FDR and all the rest. And he sounded like a democrat, minus, again,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: calling himself a democratic socialist, which, you know, has resonance
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: with a lot of people in this country, at least
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the word socialism. because of what older people know socialism
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: to be in the past. That's it. And it's hard
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: to get around that. It's just a fact.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Now, it doesn't mean.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: He may be able to, but.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And I think that is the important thing, is we
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: treat electability vulnerabilities as these things set in stone.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. And they are not.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: And if you had said back in 2007 that the
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: best candidate to run against John McCain, war hero, most
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: popular politician in the country... Would be a black.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Guy named Barack Hussein Obama.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: From the south side of Chicago, a few years removed
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: from the Illinois State Senate, people thought you were fucking insane.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Insane.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: And so candidate ability, campaign quality, and most importantly, larger
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: factors of what's happening in the economy and the world
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: will drive the outcome here. So I think Bernie Sanders
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: can navigate, just like I think Elizabeth Warren can navigate
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the challenges people raise about her. Biden has challenges.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Klobuchar has challenges. Everyone except Andrew Yang has challenges.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, you know, I agree. And that's why
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: people say, you know, who do you think is going
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: to be strongest in general? All I can do is
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: talk about the strengths and weaknesses of each candidate. And
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I think we should be all, all of us should
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: be clear eyed that whoever wins this thing, I do
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: not think we should be sitting there saying like, oh,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: if only we had nominated this other one, you know,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: like they, every single one of them, at least the
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: major ones that we're talking about has a Serious weaknesses
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: in the general election and all of them carry serious strengths.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Some of those strengths unique to that candidate that the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: other candidates don't have. I really believe that about all
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: And the best test of electability is winning elections.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: And now our primary process is not perfect. By any
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: stretch of the imagination, the real questions about the demographic
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: makeup of the states of the front end, all of
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: that is true. But that is the process before us.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And my bet would be the candidate who can best
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: navigate that process to the end is probably our best
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: bet against Trump.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. So let's talk about two
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: of Bernie's rivals. How much of an advantage is it
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: for Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg to have Iowa to
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: themselves in this last week and a half?
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's a huge advantage. If you will remember
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: at the end of Iowa, like Iowa, the numbers of
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: people involved are so small. And you're basically trying to move,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: in some cases, a few dozen people in a precinct
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: to get 15% or to get one of your opponents
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: under 15%. So at the end of every event down
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the stretch, President Obama, Mrs. Obama, would do events with
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: undecided caucus members. They would meet with them, like 10 people,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: 12 people, and would persuade them to sign cards right
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: then and there to be what we would call a one, right?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Someone who was a committed supporter of President Obama. And-
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: That makes a difference. And that is something that is
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: available to Biden and Buttigieg that is not going to
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: be available at the same volume to the others.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think, well, there's two things that they can
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: do to sort of help their cause, Bernie and Warren
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and Klobuchar. One is surrogates and the other is doing
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of television and press interviews from D.C. that
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: get beamed back into Iowa.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: That is the best thing they can do.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's not the same? Not the same.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Because the candidates in Iowa can do both, right? You're
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: going to have, like, Biden's going to be there and
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Biden's surrogates are going to be there. Buttigieg's going to
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: be there. Buttigieg's surrogates are going to be there. Biden
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: and Buttigieg can also do cable TV from there. So, like,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I think it is a substitute, but it is not
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: equivalent to what they can do. And you could not, like,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: let's say that they were there for, they were House
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: members doing the impeachment hearing. or they were senators during
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: a Supreme court confirmation where they could do something. They
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: literally have to take a vow of silence and do
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: nothing for 12 hours a day and they can't leave.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: So it is, it is a very restrictive situation that
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: they are in.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Tell you the thing that I've been thinking about is just,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: you know, in our, in our last couple of weeks
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: in Iowa in 2007, I guess it was 2008 at
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: this point.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Um, It wasn't.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: It was 2007.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: No, it was 2007 because the caucuses are what?
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: January 3rd.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: January 3rd, right.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: So it was 2007. The big question for us was,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: would the universe of caucus goers be what we thought
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: it would be? Meaning, would we get expanded turnout? Because
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: we knew that we could only win if turnout in
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: the caucuses basically broke records. And the other campaigns didn't
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: think that we would break those records. And I think
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: about that now with Bernie Sanders' campaign or even... if
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: it turns out Warren wins, right. Or if it turns
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: out Buttigieg wins, right. Like those are both all three
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: of those candidates, at least anecdotally. And in some of
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the data you can see like hat are trying to
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: bring new people in to caucus. And, you know, particularly Bernie,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: because they, they just have done so much organizing on
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the ground for so long. And the big question I
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: have in this last week and a half is like,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: does that materialize? Do all those new caucus growers turn out?
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Because if they do, when you break all kinds of
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: records with turnout, uh, then I wonder if it benefits
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: a more insurgent candidate. Well, I mean, you asked me-
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does benefit the more insurgent candidate.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: You asked me earlier about the difference between the polls.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: And too many public media pollsters do not give us
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: enough information to fully judge the poll. You don't see crosstabs.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: You don't have a real view of weighting or universe.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: There are exceptions. We have folks like Nate Cohn who
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: are very transparent about it. The Des Moines Register poll
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: in 2008, it was actually 2007 because it came out
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: New Year's Eve, was our New Year's Eve president, that
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: showed Obama up seven. The reason that that poll was
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: much more favorable to Obama than a Mason-Dixon poll that
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: had come out a week earlier that showed Obama, I think,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: in third.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, really? Second or third, yeah.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: And there were a couple very prominent endorsers who backed
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: off when that poll came out. They know who they are.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Was Ann Seltzer, the Democratic pollster, gauge turnout correctly. And
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: she had a more a less restrictive view of who
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: was a caucus goer than previous polls had done. And
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: I'd be very curious to know the difference between the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Des Moines Register poll that had Bernie winning and the
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Monmouth poll that had Biden winning. Like what the difference
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: in methodology is there and whether the Des Moines Register
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: is doing a better job of capturing these new caucus goers,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: which I think the assumption of everyone involved is that
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: turnout will be at least as high, if not higher
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: than 2008, which was the record.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: Wow. All right.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we will have Dan's interview with
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Desmond Meade. Hey, everyone. Pod Save America and Love It
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: or Leave It are going on tour for 2020.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Between the news, this primary, and the general election.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: We're going to have a lot to talk about. So
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: come see us live when we're in your town.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Get those tickets at crooked.com slash events and come hang out.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: That's crooked.com slash events.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Desmond Meade, president of the Florida Rights
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Restoration Coalition, an organization run by and advocating for former
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: convicted persons. The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition was instrumental in
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: passing Amendment 4 in Florida in 2018 that restored the
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: voting rights of about 1.4 million Floridians. Desmond, welcome to
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Hey, it's a pleasure, Ben. Thanks for having me.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: When Florida voters passed Amendment 4 in 2018, it was
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: one of the single biggest acts of enfranchisement in the
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: history of the United States. But since then, Republicans have
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: pretty much pulled out all of the stops to undo
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: the work that was done. Desmond, can you tell us
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: what they have done and how the state Supreme Court
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: weighed in last week?
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So let me start by saying this.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: And I think it's very important that we don't gloss
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: over what happened in November of 2018 when we passed
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: amendments for, you know, over 5.1 million people voted yes
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: for our amendments.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: And that was a million more people.
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: That voted for our amendment than voted for anybody that
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: was on the.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Ballot, right?
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: In addition to that, what we've seen was that over
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: a million people who voted yes for Amendment 4 also
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: voted for the current governor, which showed a broad cross-section
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: of support for the amendment. And what was, I believe,
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: probably the most beautiful thing of that evening was the
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: fact that what we've seen was 5.1 million votes that
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: was not based on hate, was not based on fear,
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: but was rather based on love, forgiveness, and redemption. And
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: we were able to keep that campaign elevated above partisan politics,
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: above racial insecurities, and bring people.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Together along the lines of humanity.
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: And so the country actually got to see love winning
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: the day. And then when you talk about we're just
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: a few days removed from celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King,
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: it reminds me how He once said that hate can't
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: drive out hate, fear can't drive out fear, darkness can't
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: drive out darkness, but love can really defeat all.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: Of those forces. And so when we.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: Passed Amendment 4 and the legislators started getting involved, it
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: was very disheartening because we knew once that happened that
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: such a beautiful campaign and a beautiful... a beautiful application
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: or a beautiful movement to move such an important issue
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: was going to be drugged down into the cesspool of
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: partisan politics.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: And what we've.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Seen was a very strong attempt to really clarify or define,
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: I should say, what completion of sentence was. We knew
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: that Amendment 4 created three conditions that would trigger the
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: right to vote, which is not being convicted of of
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: a murder, not being convicted of a felony sex offense,
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: and completing a sentence that's ordered by a judge to
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: include restitution. The legislation that was filed by the Republican
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: legislators initially, it expanded on all of those definitions. And
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: so we had serious problems with that.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: And so the.
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: Main fight moving forward has always been around what is
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: completion of sentence. Does it include financial obligations? And if
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: it does, what type of of financial obligations do it include?
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Our position has always been that if it included financial obligations,
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: it was only financial obligations that was attached to the
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: crime that someone was convicted of, right? That it was
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: only financial obligations that was punitive in nature and not
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: financial obligations that was administrative in nature. And so there
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: was a bunch of back and forth there. And just recently,
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: the Florida Supreme Court issued an advisory opinion to the
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: governor that combines the punitive financial obligations with the administrative
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: financial obligations and requiring a person to pay all of
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: those legal financial obligations before they can say their sentence
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: is complete.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Do you have an estimate on how many people that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: could impact?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, unfortunately, you know, prior to the Supreme
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: Court advisory opinion, we really relied on a lot.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Of research that's been done by.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: What we consider to be the platinum standard for fellow disenfranchisement,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: and that's by the sentencing project. And we determined that
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: out of the 1.4 million Floridians that would have been
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: immediately impacted by the passing of Amendment 4, we believe
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: that approximately 840,000 did not have any outstanding fines, fees,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: or restitution, right, which left approximately 560,000 that do. But
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: with this Supreme Court advisory opinion, It seems now to
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: shift that balance a little bit more. And now we
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: believe that there's over 800,000 folks that total that all
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: fines and fees and court costs that the Supreme Court
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: is saying is now required to be paid. And so
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: we know that the number of people without any financial
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: obligations would be drastically reduced.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: But we don't have those figures yet.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: And where does the litigation go from here? Is there
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: any chance this can get resolved in a favorable way
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: by the 2020 election? I'm not heartened by the fact
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: you're laughing.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: What I tell folks is this.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: FRRC, Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, we're going to let the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: litigators litigate. We're going to let the legislators legislate, right?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: And we are going.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: To continue to embrace the spirit of Amendment 4 and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: remain keenly focused on the people, right? Right now, the
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: legislation that was signed into law in July of 2019
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: allows a couple different pathways for people with financial obligations, right?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: We've always said wherever people see obstacles, we see opportunities.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: And in that legislation that was signed into law, It
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: allows the courts to be involved and to be able
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: to modify a person's sentence that would remove the financial
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: obligations as an impediment to register and vote. We were
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: able to do that in November. We had John Legend
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: in Miami-Dade County in the 11th Judicial Circuit where we
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: were able to demonstrate that publicly to where people, no
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: matter what they owed, had the opportunity to go before
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: a judge and that judge would basically issue a ruling
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: that says that your financial obligations would no longer be
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: an impediment to you being able to register to vote.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: And we were able to register people to vote right
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: there in the courtroom, right? The other pathway is for
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: a judge to actually take whatever is owed and convert
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: them to community service hours. So someone who may not
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: afford to pay whatever fines and fees and court costs
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: that are assessed to them, they have an opportunity to volunteer.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: And here's the beautiful part, I mean, to do community
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: service hours.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Here's the beautiful part.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: They can do community service hours by volunteering with an
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: organization that's going out there registering people.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: To vote, right?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: And so there's always, I believe, you know, if we
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: search hard, long enough, we could find silver linings in
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: these dark clouds. We could find opportunities to take the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: lemons that's thrown at us and make lemonade. With 2020
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: being the most pivotal election, the most crucial election that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: this country has ever seen, and this is not a hyperbole,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: this is real, that our primary purpose, or what we
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: feel should be the primary purpose, focus of many organizations
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: and individuals is is to engage as many of our
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: fellow citizens as we can, get them registered to vote,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: and engage them in such a way that they actually
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: turn out to vote in 2020. Florida historically has decided
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: presidential elections by 100,000 or less votes, right? We strongly
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: believe that just within the returning citizens community, we have
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: more than 100,000 people who can register to vote and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: make a difference. But in addition to them, there are
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: still about 3 million Americans who are eligible to register
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: to vote that have not. And there are still about
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: maybe 2.4 and upwards millions of people who are registered
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: that don't historically vote. And so we have an amazing
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: opportunity to not get bogged down in litigation and not
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: get bogged down in the legislation and really focus our
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: energy and attention on on getting people registered to vote
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: and those who are registered, getting them out to the polls.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: So Desmond, before I let you go, how can our
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: listeners help with the work that you're doing and help
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: people who don't have the money to pay the fees
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: and other things standing in the way of their voting
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: rights being restored?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: Listen, that's a great question.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: You know, recently, over the last few days, I've been
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: seeing a lot of chatter on social media where Folks
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: are challenging folks like Bloomberg and Steyer to put the
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: money where their mouth is and to really, you know,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: if you have the ability to write that check, you
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: write that check. And free folks or free democracy, let's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: get people registered to vote and get it out there
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: so folks can donate. We have a fines and fees
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: fund that we started last summer. We raised over $ 400, 000,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: but we need much more than that. But folks can
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: donate to our fines and fees fund, and those monies,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: 99% of that money will be used exclusively to help
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: people pay fines and fees off so they're able to
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: register to vote. Over the Christmas holidays, we were able
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: to spend about $ 265, 000 be able to get a couple
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: hundred people their right to vote back. Obviously, we need
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: much more money than that. And there are people out
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: there in the country that has the ability.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: To write large checks.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: And even those who don't, you know, every little bit helps.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: People can go and they can text FEES, F-E-E-S, to 82623.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: And there's a link that would take them directly to
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: the donation page. Or they could also go to our website.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: at floridarrc.com, and there's a link there to help people
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: pay fines and fees. But together as a country, we
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: can unlock democracy in the state of Florida. And I'll
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: leave you with this, man. I can't remember. Maybe because
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: I'm not old enough, but I cannot remember the last
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: time somebody got.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: Into the White House without winning the state of Florida.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: And so this is a great opportunity for for folks
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: to help expand democracy in Florida and help drive out
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: more people to the polls, because we're going to need
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: a humongous turnout to really make sure that we have
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: an impact in this upcoming election.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Desmond, thank you so much for joining us. Your optimism
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: and activism is always so inspiring to us. Best of
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: luck with all this, and we'll be sure to check
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: in with you before Election Day.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Looking forward to it.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Desmond Meade for joining us today. One more
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: announcement before you guys go. So Democrats have a chance
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: to flip a really important seat in the Texas House
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: of Representatives next week. Elise Markowitz is the Democratic candidate
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: running in a special election on January 28th. Why is
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: it getting national attention, Dan?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: Because there is few things that are more important for
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Democrats than taking back the legislature in Texas. And Beto O'Rourke,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: our old friend in his new organization, Powered by People,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: has been down there working. Julian Castro was down there
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: knocking doors. And it's incredibly important and would send a
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: very powerful signal about what Democrats will do in 2020
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: if we can win this race.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: And it's important to flip the Texas legislature partly because,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's great to have a Democratic legislature in Texas,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: but also redistricting.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: That's right. We're heading into a redistricting year. And if
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Democrats control the legislature, we can ensure that democracy is
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: not gerrymandered out of existence.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: So very, very big. If you live in the Houston
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: area and you can get out and volunteer this week
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: for Elise, she needs your help. So go do that.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Everyone else, we will talk to you on Monday.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Sominator, and
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Katie Long for production support, and to our digital team,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yael Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.