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One Leg Up on The Albany Chinese Spy Scandal With Bloomberg Reporter Zach Williams and Alex Garrett 9-4-24 · OneLegUpAlex Media

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Here's your host, Alex Garrett.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Well here on One Leg Up on News with Alex Garrett.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: It's kind of somber. I mean, we've just had a
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: weekend where unfortunately, tragically and inexplicably six that's right, six
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: hostages were killed in the Israeli Hamas conflict. Six Israeli
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: and American hostages combined killed by Hamas. I refer you
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to Shiel Beena from for more information on that because
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: it's horrible. And then today, of course, the Appalachi County
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: school shooting. I mean, in Georgia, the kids couldn't even
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: settle in past Labor Day and the first couple of
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: weeks to school without a horrific shooting in which actually
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: four have died as of this moment and this recording.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But here in New York, something really, really really concerning
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: came down and I wanted to get a longtime contributor
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: to the Alex Garrett podcast network One Leg Up Network,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Zach Williams, who's now with Bloomberg News. Zach Williams, thanks
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: for joining me to talk about this scandal.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Hey, nice to hear from you.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: So, Zach, did a Chinese spy really infiltrate Albany. Tell
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: me what's going on.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Well, normally it's a pretty quiet time a year up
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: here in Albany, but yesterday was quite the exception because
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a former aid to Governors, Kathy Hochel and Andrew Cuomo,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: was arrested after and indicted by the Eastern District of
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: New York the Federal Prosecutors and charged with being an
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: agent of the Chinese government the Chinese Communist Party. A
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: very interesting read. The indictment, you know, basically says that
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: she used her position as a deputy secretary under Hokol
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: as well as some positions well under Cuomo in between
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the period twenty fifteen and twenty twenty three to kind
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of steer state messaging in a more friendly direction for
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the mainland Chinese government, you know, usually at the expense
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: of Taiwan, which you know, you and your listeners may
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: know has a rival government that you know is not
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: recognized by the mainland. But you know, that gets back
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: into some Chinese history that maybe we don't have time for.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: But you know, the long and the short was she
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: was using her position to kind of do certain favors,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you know, whether it was you know, nixing references to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Taiwan as an independent country. You know, the communist government
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: claims that as a renegade province or you know, nixing
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: meetings between state officials and Taiwanese officials, things like that.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: And you know, she's innocent until proven guilty. But the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: indictment so far is, you know, looks pretty damning.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you, Zach, did then Governor Andrew Cuomo
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: and now Governor Kathy Hogal have any knowledge that this
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: was going on in the administration.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: The local administration has noted that she was fired by
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the Department of Labor in March twenty twenty three, you know,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: for some type of what's the word misconduct, and you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: know that was re referred to law enforcement. So it
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: sounds like they were catching on to her at least
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: by that point. You know. The Governor Kathy Hokeel, you know,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: has emphasized they this was someone hired under Cuomo, although
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: to be fair, you know, with someone that she you know,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: allowed to continue working for her for the governor, you know,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: after she took over in August twenty twenty one. I
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: think the bigger picture here is, you know, the New
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: York State government, you know, doesn't hold nuclear weapons and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: isn't you know, usually involved in matters of national security.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: But you know, what this really is is part of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: a much wider influence operation by the Chinese government, you know,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: aimed at all sorts of people in American society. You know,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: it's ultimately boosts, you know, the national interest as they
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: see it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So Zach, from an international standpoint, does that mean China
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: truly want take over Taiwan and they're working toward that
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: If even in New York State they're diverting messaging regarding
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Taiwan through this alleged spy, well, I'm.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Sure you could say in a very small way. Again,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: you know, let's not blow this up. This is you know,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: an alleged ation of the Chinese government within the Office
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: of the Governor New York concerning But you know, this
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: isn't an infiltrator in the White House or the Joint
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Chiefs of Staff or something. It's not the nuclear launch codes.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: That said, you know a little bit of history, and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I can speak with some authority, having lived in mainland
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: China for three years and have a degree in Chinese
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: studies from UC Berkeley, that you know, in nineteen forty
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: nine there was a civil war that was going on
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: between a non communist government which the US backed in
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the communist government which prevailed that year and set up
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: with some other People's Republic of China. The non communist
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: government retreated, retweated, or retreated sorry to Taiwan, and for
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: many years was the recognized government cleaned by the US,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: you know, of all of China, even had a seat
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: on the UN Security Council. You know, the Communist government
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: was completely shut out until the US reopened diplomatic relations
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: with it in the nineteen seventies. And you know that
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: eventually led to world growing, worldwide recognition of the People's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Republic of China as the one government of all of China,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Taiwan included, and the US deciding to formally not recognize
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Taiwan's government. Well, that's very tricky, right, We still have
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you know, Taiwan's a military ally of the US, but
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: officially we don't have diplomatic relations with Taiwan aka the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Republic of China. And you know, it's very much a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: matter of national policy of the Communist government based out
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of Beijing to promote the idea that Taiwan is an
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: inseparable part of China and it shall never be an
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: independent country, although in reality it is in everything except
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: name an independent country, Zach, I know, you love history.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Has this ever happened before the New York State level?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: This kind of infiltration would be hard.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Pressed to think of, you know, another instance in New
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: York State where a you know, an official, much less
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: one that was you know, as high as this person was,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and the swim was accused of being an agent for
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: foreign power. But I would say that there has been
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: increased worries in recent years of you know, influence campaigns
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: by the Chinese government and state governments and local governments
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and elsewhere. You know, this isn't even the first time
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that someone's brought up issues with people in the local administration.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: There was another Aid, Elaine Han I think might have
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: been her name, but don't quote me on that. But
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: there was an article in National Review, a conservative publication
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I believe, a year ago that noted, you know, this
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: hokoal aids attendance at an event or two sponsored by
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: the Chinese government or affiliated groups, you know, as part
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: of kind of what you know. The national government here
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: in the US has warned it was kind of a
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: not so covert influence campaign. You know, it should be
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: no surprise that China tries this type of stuff, the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Communist government based in Beijing, that is. But at the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: same time, you know, this is definitely something new. And
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: as a reporter in Albany, wasn't on my binko guard.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: If you would have asked me last week, you know,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: should we uh, should I get ready to be writing
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: about Chinese alleged Chinese spies within the Hokal administration in
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the recent past, probably would have said, well, that's pretty
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: far fetched, Zach.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Any thoughts on this coming out during a presidential election
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: year and the fact that you know, Governor Hokell just
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: spoke at the DNC any correlation to all of that
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: from a national, international, and even state.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Level, Well, the mainland Chinese government's designs on Taiwan are certainly,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: you know, something that's much more enduring than just you know,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election, in twenty twenty four elections, So
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't really view it as you know, this this
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: whole influence campaign as about the election or about Donald
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Trump versus you know, Kamala Harris or Kathy Hoko or
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: any of that. You know, This is again, like I
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: cannot overstate how central to the Chinese government's official policy
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it is to pursue unification with Taiwan by force if necessary.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And you know this, these allegations with Linda swyin the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you know, the former aid to Governor's Cuomo and Hokle
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: appear to be a very small but significant part of it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Our hiring practice is now going to change in Albany
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: after all of this.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Well, Governor hokel On on Wednesday, September fourth, you know,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: was asked just that question and said, basically, you know,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: ever since the allegitimist conduct arose with swyin sometime around
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: March twenty twenty three, they actually increased their vetting. She
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: didn't really get it into specifics. You got to see
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: it to believe it, but it appears that at least
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the issue was on their minds, you know, as recently
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: as the day after Swin got arrested. You know, one
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: thing I should point out is, you know, while the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: details of her legal jeopardy were not known until yesterday,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: or until September third, when she was arrested, there were
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: hints a few weeks ago that something was the foot
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: that involved her and her husband, so you know, it
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't completely out of the blue, but certainly these you know,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: these kind of lurid allegations of international espionage were very
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: much a surprise.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: We're doalne with Zach Williams, who was of the New
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: York Post now as with Bloomberg News, and we haven't
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: talked since your made year move to Bloomberg. So what's
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: your role at Bloomberg.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Well, Bloomberg's a really good company, like NewsCorp, which the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: New York Post is part of, you know, very far
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: flung international in scope, so it's pretty exciting to go
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: somewhere new. You know, I still cover the capitol here
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in Albany, the governor, the legislate, sure, all of that,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: but I also have additional responsibilities covering tech issues and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: other state houses as well, particularly when it comes to
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you know, how governments to regulate artificial intelligence a pretty
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: exciting topic nowadays.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we could talk for hours about AI. Right Anyway,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: you said that this was not on your BINGO card,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: So what were you covering up until the scandal broke
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: in all buty, What's been on your coverage if you will,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: leading up to this.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Well, certainly the congressional races here in New York could
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: be very pivotal for the rest of the country considering
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: how narrow you know, the GOP control is right now.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And you know, something a little bit closer to home
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: is how Governor hokl is dealing with energy. You know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: there's been a bit of reporting over the summer about
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: how the state is totally not going to meet as
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: climate goals, which include, for instance, you know, going one
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: hundred percent renewable energy and are electrical very by twenty forty.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So it looks like the Governor's going to be making
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: some moves. You know that might be bringing up nuclear power.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: There's a summit in Syracuse where that's going to be
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a big topic, or it might be something else where
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you just simply redefine the goals and you know, say
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that they were the best ones anyways to get a
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: political win. We'll see what happens, but that seems to
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: be something that you know, really might be coming up
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: in the months to come.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Here in Albany, Zach were you tasked with actually covering
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the DNC speech by Governor Hokele and what did you think, Well.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: It's funny you ask. I actually had a piece for
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg about just that that, you know, it was pretty
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: rough for the governor. You know, she fled the first
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: line that led to a you know about Kamala Harris
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: running for to be the first US president. I thought
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the rest of the speech was just kind of the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: delivery wasn't quite there. And you know, I think the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: pressure's on the governor, like you know, on the national stage,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: whether it's flubbed line or you know, her role in
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: trying to flip these seats, these congressional seats in New
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: York to the Democrats. You know, the pressure's on. And
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi just keeps bringing up how an underwhelming gubernatorial
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: campaign by Oakland twenty twenty two against Selden, you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: basically flipped the House to the Republicans. So, you know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the governor's in a pretty tight, tight spot. But she
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: says she's on the case.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: There's no doubt that Lee's Eldon worked his tail off
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: during that election, crossing the whole state. But Governor Hokole
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: did get elected. And so with that being said, one
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: of the things on her plate has been congestion pricing.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: What can you tell us about the update on congestion pricing.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Where do we stand since her reversal in June.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: You know, everything as of early June looked like, you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: they were going to begin to charge drivers Enneryman Handblo
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: sixty Street beginning on June thirtieth, you know, as much
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: as fifteen bucks per day. It was gonna be a
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: bit lower at night. And then the governor completely upended that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: A pretty popular move. Nobody likes tolls like you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: kind of a no brainer in that way, except you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: this was expected to raise about a billion dollars which
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: would have been used basically as to to issue bonds
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: to raise even more money fifteen billion dollars a year
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for the MTA fix, the subways, expand buses, all of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that also popular things. So you know, the governor certainly,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I think what was most damaging for her
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: on this wasn't you know, championing you know what she
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: has called a pause of congestion pricing. It's that, you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: just a few months ago she was touting how brave
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: she was for supporting congestion pricing and how you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: leaders got to be brave sometimes to do the right thing.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: All of that, and then yeah, she changed her mind.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So you know, I think in the end, most voters
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: aren't paying that much attention. It's kind of a popular thing.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: She needed something popular. Her approval ratings have been, you know,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: basically the lowest they've been in her three year ten
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: year as governor. And you know, I think what it
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: really costs her was a lot of trust in the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: legislature because she didn't have a plan. You know, she
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to do this, Okay, how else do you
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: want to raise a billion dollars? Stay lawmakers, saying she
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: didn't have any ideas except for those that you know,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: one of them was raised taxes on businesses, small businesses.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: That's not popular with the lawmakers. And then secondly was
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: basically an iou you know, oh, we'll give you a
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: billion dollars to fund the MTA. And the thing with
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: this governor is it's just like seems one crisis to another.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You know, there was congestion, pricing that was starting to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: die down. Now we got this Linda Swing business, you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the alleged Chinese fine and you know, we'll see what
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: comes up next. But you know, it's never been boring
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: with this governor, that's for sure, Zach.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: As you know, I like to ask you about the
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: relationship but between the city and the state. So talk
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: about New York City's relationship with New York State. How
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: is Mayor Adams's relationship with Governor Hokel as we sit
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: right here in September twenty twenty four.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the relationship, you know, interpersonally is fine.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: You know, they both have an interest in kind of
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: keeping things, you know, cooperating more than fighting. So I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: think that's been kind of fine, I'd say, you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: on the whole, HOCl has tended to be a has
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: tended to need the Mayor more than he's needed her,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and has tended to be you know, we might say
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: a better political ally. But at the same time, he's
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: got his own problems. You know, he's he just got
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: got subpoena a week or two ago for this whole
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you know, this whole host of allegations of involving his
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: campaign finances and the government of Turkey and supposed favors
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: via the FD And why you know, Eric Adams is
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: not someone that other Democrats want to be seen around
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: too much. Look at the DNC, Hokl who you know,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: is hardly a national political superstars. Still, you know, he's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: got a speaking gig at least where she went after
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump a bit and he responded to talk about elevating.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: You know, there's one enemy wants to have, it's Donald Trump.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And Eric Adams wasn't invited to speak at all, you know.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And this is a guy who claimed when he was
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: elected what two years ago, that he was the future
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party. So I think that says a
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: lot about where Eric Adams is nowadays. You know, he's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: he's got this these federal investigators hanging over his head.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: If he gets indicted, it's game on and he's in
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: real trouble. And if he well, we you know, the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: thing with investigations is they're not over till they're over.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: And we don't tend to like, really care much if
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: we hear not indicted, and they tend to drag on
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: until there's at least indictment of somebody. But you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: we'll we'll see he denies, you know, all wrongdoing, all
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: that stuff, but he's already got a bunch of people
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: running against it from aire and with rank choice voting
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in New York City, you know, he showed that you
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: can win with support of like thirty percent of the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: electorate or something. You know, you can win a Democratic
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: primary because it's just, you know, our rank choice voting
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is a complicated system, a lot a lot of it's
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: hard to predict what comes out of.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: It, Zach. When Governor Hochel does come down to the city,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: do you track with her? Do you come down to
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: follow where she's up to or do you mainly stay
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: up in Albany and cover it from there.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: She lives streams a lot of her events. You know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard to keep up with the governor. You know,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: she's she's got a helicopter and airplanes and a pack schedule,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily always my priority every day to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you know, just just see what she's doing. There's you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: there's a legislature and there's a lot else going on.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: But I try to and certainly, you know, collectively the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Press Corps does a pretty good job monitoring her because
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: you know, this governor is much less scripted, i would say,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: than Cuomo. And sometimes she extemporizes, sometimes she says things
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that are a little bit out there, and sometimes she
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: just makes news maybe by gain more honest than other
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: politicians might eat. But you know, she's for someone that's
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: not you know, she's not like a colorful public figure.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: She can be pretty darn interesting.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: It's being of interesting. We all know she loves the
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Buffalo Bills because she's from Buffalo, and of course there's
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: been a lot of outcry over the new stadium being built.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: So what can you tell us about that progress as well?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Well, you know they're they're in the midst of building
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the darn thing. I think at this point, from a
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: public interest perspective, you want to you want to have,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you know, keep a look on a or the Buffalo
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Bills keeping their promises to do all these like super
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: deeper things for the local community. Who else is making
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: money on the on the construction of the stadium, And
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: you know, just overall, you know, what are what are
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: maybe some details with the deal that we hadn't noticed
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: in the first go around, because sometimes those those end
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: up being the most important.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: And didn't I see that there were like a relationship
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: between the donors she was having for her campaign and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: actually the contractors that are building the stadium. Isn't she
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: getting some kind of kickback with all of this.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, the thing with the stadium is, you
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: know it was it was well, the negotiations certainly weren't public.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You know, the the gist of the deal is very
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: much public. Like a lot of cities. Buffalo, you know,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: was a little bit small, but it has a professional team.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: They're really devoted to it, and the owners are taking
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: advantage of that to get taxpayers to pay for a
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: new stadium even though study after study, and I've reported this,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and you know over the years, study after study shows
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that when you spend a bunch of money for a
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: major sports franchise to get a free arena or stadium,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it does not create you know, magical trickle down economic growth.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: It usually just costs money, as things tend to do.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And you know, and I think that's the case here.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: You know, there was some news report, I think it
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: was ESPN or Sports Illustrate at the time. You know
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: that they were threatening the Pigoula family, which owns the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Bills and the Sabers, the hockey team up there. We're
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: threatening to move the Bills to Austin or something. And
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: lo and behold, you know, Hokal who's from Buffalo. She
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: gets it. She gets that they love those Buffalo bills.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Basically argued on in one set of her mouth that oh,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it's going to be great, so much economics activity, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: then the other side was just arguing, you know, the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: bills have a special place in Buffalo's heart, like you know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Broadway plays and New York City. Perhaps, as she said
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: in one press conference, and that means the money's well spent.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And from a political perspective, she carried Airy County and
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: did better than Cuomo I believe did upstate, So you know,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: there was maybe that made the difference for her because
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: her performance upstate probably saved her in that election. It
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: would have been way closer.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: You know, people don't realize it, Zach, but Buffalo is
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: actually the second most populous city in New York State
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: according to the twenty twenty census.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So there's that.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Now, with all of this going down, with the alleged
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: spy scandal, does that lead you as a reporter to
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: keep investigating to see if there are more alleged spies
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: in the Albany state capital, in the local administration that
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: we don't even know about yet.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you just got to keep your eyes open.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: There's always a lot happening, a lot of distractions, a
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: lot of shiny objects. And you know, I think the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: best reporters in Albany are usually trying to think a
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: few months ahead of times. You know, what should I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: be already asking about or putting and then requests for
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: records that sort of thing. And I know, for myself
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: personally it is all this business with Linda Swin and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the allegations against her was definitely an occasion to think, Okay,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: how can we move this story forward? And how much
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: time and what sort of efforts does it take to
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: get there.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Zach Williams of Bloomberg, thanks as always for joining me
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: as you always have one leg up in Albany for
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: us on the One Leg Up Network.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Heay, same here anytime. Thanks again for inviting me