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Why Reach Isn’t the Same as Trust · Kids Media Club Podcast

• 0:06
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Kids Media Club podcast.
• 0:09
  I'm Andy Williams.
• 0:11
  I'm Jo Redfern and Emily, you have dispatches for us.
• 0:15
  I do have dispatches for you both.
• 0:17
  For the business of Children's Media Summit coming to Dublin on November 12th.
• 0:21
  We are firming up the agenda, we are firming up the guest list and it is looking lush.
• 0:27
  So I wanted to shout out a few of the folks that are definitely going to be joining us there.
• 0:30
  We have our keynote from Erica Quinn, who's director of content and brand insights at Disney.
• 0:35
  She's going to be talking about the ingredients of what goes into making a kids TV show, a preschool show today that really connects with the audience.
• 0:44
  We have Anna Taganov from the BBC, Emily Brady who runs El Caso Network out of Galway, a creator, a creator business.
• 0:53
  And Nico Lockhart who will be joining us on our Nico Lockhart from Team Falco, who will be joining us on our YouTube panel.
• 1:02
  And then we also have Jen Powell, VP of writes and Scholastic, who joining the franchise panel along with Chris Dicker, who you guys know, creator and he's involved in Teddy Bears.
• 1:13
  We've had him on the podcast a few months ago.
• 1:16
  So I've been busy, guys.
• 1:18
  It's gonna be a really great day.
• 1:20
  Yeah, amazing.
• 1:24
  That and lots of other little surprise and delight ideas are going to be happening in Dublin on November 12th.
• 1:31
  So anyone who's interested in coming, you can get tickets on Eventbrite.
• 1:36
  Just search the business of Children's Media Summit.
• 1:39
  And as I said before, I am good to deliver on my promise of buying any international travels travelers to the event, a pint of Guinness, you two included.
• 1:49
  So amazing.
• 1:51
  I felt bad.
• 1:51
  I wasn't, I wasn't gonna kind of push that because I'd pushed that last time, but.
• 1:55
  Oh, I was, but you brought it up.
• 1:57
  No, it's fine.
• 1:58
  I'm happy.
• 1:59
  Happy to be on the hook.
• 2:00
  I'm happy to be on the hook for it.
• 2:01
  That also still stands.
• 2:02
  We are extending the Irish welcome and the whole event is going to be underwritten by the Irish welcome and there's going to be lots of fun little bits and pieces that we're planning regarding the Irish welcome, which I
• 2:12
  can't discuss glows at the moment, but come to the event and see.
• 2:16
  So yeah, brilliant.
• 2:17
  All coming together really.
• 2:18
  Well then listen, we've got a guest today really happy to be chatting again to Emma Wachowski, VP of Media Solutions at Wild Brain.
• 2:25
  You're very welcome to join us, Emma.
• 2:28
  Thank you.
• 2:29
  I'm glad to be back.
• 2:30
  I love talking with you three because you're as passionate about the kids space, kids media, kids advertising, kids franchises as I am.
• 2:37
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:38
  We are passionate.
• 2:39
  And the reason we got you on is because you and Joe Redfern, who you may know, have been spicing off a little bit on LinkedIn regarding trust and the importance of trust, the value of trust in the family
• 2:53
  market, which I think is really interesting.
• 2:56
  So I thought it was good.
• 2:58
  We were chatting about it, we said it'd be good to get into this conversation properly on a podcast because it's something that needs spotlight and needs quantification.
• 3:06
  So when we talk about trusting kids media, what do we actually mean?
• 3:10
  I have my thoughts, but Emma, I'd love to kick you off with what your thoughts are on it.
• 3:14
  Yeah, I think trust has always been fundamental to kids media, but what's changed is that we no longer assume it sits in one place.
• 3:21
  Right.
• 3:22
  It's gone from being with traditional broadcasters to now, you know, kids content is algorithm driven.
• 3:28
  So that changes everything.
• 3:29
  Families move between platforms, creators and characters that they really love.
• 3:34
  So the industry needs to get a better understanding of what it means for all involved, not just advertisers.
• 3:41
  And when I think about it, I think about it in three different ways because trust's multi layered.
• 3:46
  You've got parents, right?
• 3:47
  What does trust mean to them?
• 3:49
  And that is really the confidence in the content that their children are watching and the environments they're watching it in.
• 3:56
  For children, it's the familiarity with the characters and the storylines, the connections that they have could be with a creator.
• 4:04
  And for advertisers, it's really about the confidence that their brand is appearing in appropriate context and reaching an audience in a really meaningful way.
• 4:13
  Yeah, I would have to second that as well.
• 4:15
  I mean, I've just recently completed a piece of research study with material and we were looking at this question around why families subscribe to streaming services.
• 4:26
  What I was digging on was this notion that families are retention drivers, not subscription drivers, but safe for my child to watch, was the number one reason why people will put their hand in their pocket to subscribe to
• 4:37
  a streaming service.
• 4:38
  And that talks to trust a lot of.
• 4:41
  I think for me, and this is one of the things that you and I were exchanging views on LinkedIn, Emma, was this.
• 4:49
  There's been this conflation over the last few years between reach and a relationship with the audience, but it's not necessarily one and the same, particularly when you're talking about kids and families and teens, just because you've reached them
• 5:03
  doesn't mean that you started a relationship with them.
• 5:06
  And we, I mean, we've said this a bazillion times about habit and how kids will watch the same movie three times in a week or the same episode over and over that, you know, we tend to measure in
• 5:19
  terms of views that just.
• 5:20
  That's like a little moment in time.
• 5:23
  But we know with kids rewatching is them starting habits and relationships.
• 5:28
  And I think those two have just kind of got modded somewhere along the way.
• 5:31
  Would you not agree?
• 5:34
  Yeah, I would, 100%.
• 5:35
  I think if you look at, like, traditional broadcasters, they really brought together that programming, that curation, a set of standards that everyone was familiar with and trusted.
• 5:46
  And now because those audiences have moved into much broader environments.
• 5:51
  And reach and trust are not the same thing.
• 5:54
  Yep.
• 5:56
  And do you think that that trust has moved to creators and maybe brands, but has it moved to the platforms as well?
• 6:04
  Because I feel like, as you said, it's such a broad.
• 6:08
  Those platforms are so broad, I'm not sure if trust meaningfully kind of operates in the same way for the platforms now that it did for the channels before.
• 6:17
  Yeah, I think the platforms provide the access and scale.
• 6:21
  Right.
• 6:21
  Which is what every franchise creator show wants.
• 6:26
  But the platform doesn't guarantee that the trust is there.
• 6:31
  And again, they're not all, you know, created equally, are they?
• 6:34
  Depending on, like, how much the algorithm drives what's happening on the platform.
• 6:40
  So I think there's a disconnect there.
• 6:42
  They can't all be valued equally.
• 6:44
  And I think it goes back to your point, Emily, about the streamers.
• 6:47
  There is a sense of trust there because, you know, it's not as algorithm driven as other platforms might be.
• 6:55
  And you have the guarantee that the content, at the very least the content on streaming platforms is curated to a standard.
• 7:03
  Might not be quite the same as broadcast.
• 7:06
  It's definitely, you know, we look at Netflix and we look at some of the creators coming in there, there's definitely, you know, a bit of a bit more leeway there, I would say, in some of what they're doing.
• 7:15
  But ultimately those creators have been chosen because they're deemed to be safe.
• 7:20
  At the very least, it's back to that thing then about like, is it the platform that has the trust or is it the creator?
• 7:26
  Right.
• 7:26
  Like, because I think, and I think, I suppose it works differently on a kid to parent level as well.
• 7:32
  So, you know, from a parent's perspective, they understand the kind of machinations behind what a streamer is versus what a UGC platform like YouTube is, I have to believe, but for kids, I guess they feel a bit more,
• 7:45
  it's a bit more personal.
• 7:46
  Right.
• 7:46
  They're not really thinking that way.
• 7:48
  Although kids definitely want to be in places that are safe, that they trust.
• 7:51
  Kids don't like, I know from research, kids don't like being scared or they don't like stumbling on the icky parts of the Internet and what they're doing.
• 7:59
  But they know with a creator like Mark Rober for example that you know what they're get, what they're going to get is going to be fun and it's going to be, you know, they're not going to get frightened
• 8:07
  by it.
• 8:08
  Yeah, I think the franchise, the ip, the creator has the trust and the platform comes second.
• 8:17
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:19
  And when you're looking at, I mean we talked about creators but you manage IP as well.
• 8:26
  And again, this kind of familiarity, I think there's a little bit of a, there's so much content out there now and a lot of content.
• 8:37
  And I hesitate to say this but it's not necessarily made with the same level of awareness of how the audience, the kid audience consumes as maybe back in the day.
• 8:49
  And, and so we see, you know, you see kids going back to older IP1 because it's been made and constructed in a really paced, well way.
• 9:02
  But also there's that familiarity and actually this is one of the things that came up when we saw your session at YouTube HQ recently.
• 9:09
  This cross generational connection is really, really important, particularly when we're talking about brands and advertisers that want to reach kids and families.
• 9:20
  Yeah, we're definitely seeing that shift.
• 9:22
  I mean, you know, a wild brain.
• 9:23
  We're a global entertainment company with some of the biggest cross generation ip so our lens is very much on that.
• 9:29
  But I think the cross generation is really important, especially when we talk about trust because the new generation of parents grew up on this ip so they instantly have that familiarity and that trust with it and then they
• 9:43
  bring it into their kids lives.
• 9:45
  So we're seeing that it's, it's a real bonding moment as well for families to be able to share that.
• 9:50
  But we are seeing that the older cross generational IP is really having a moment.
• 9:54
  It's not just about nostalgia, is about that emotional connection that the parents have with it.
• 10:00
  So parents are refining it and kids are finding it for the first time.
• 10:05
  Yeah.
• 10:06
  And do you think is that connected to that move to connected TVs as well?
• 10:11
  It always struck me that the move from devices to connected TVs must have allowed parents to then become co viewers of that content in a way that perhaps they just weren't before that became sort of so popular.
• 10:26
  And whether that has, that has kind of amplified that trust question.
• 10:31
  Yeah, look, I think connected TV is on the big screen, so already it feels the same as broadcast because it's the biggest screen in the house.
• 10:38
  That's why they were watching content before.
• 10:41
  So again, the screen invokes that level of trust.
• 10:45
  And it's definitely been our strategy.
• 10:47
  You know, our fast channels are really, really important to us.
• 10:50
  The growth of them.
• 10:51
  They're growing at 50%.
• 10:52
  You know, year on year we're seeing audiences really prioritize those.
• 10:57
  And as, as we've talked about, we operate single IP fast channels.
• 11:01
  So parents can really have confidence and trust that, you know, they're going onto the Teletubbies channel or they're going on to Pokemon, they're to, going, going on to inspect a gadget.
• 11:10
  The content is only that ip.
• 11:12
  There is no algorithm.
• 11:13
  I always say algorithms are not parents, so you can't assume trust with them.
• 11:21
  That's the thing I'm seeing a lot I've seen in recent research as well is that like that shape of co view, the shape of co viewing, co viewing has changed shape, right?
• 11:30
  What we think of, of co viewing and what we grew up with, which was, you know, sitting around every, you know, sitting around watching Neighbors together, sitting around watching, oh my God, Blind date together.
• 11:42
  I'm gonna date myself here.
• 11:43
  Right?
• 11:43
  But like, you know, that whole.
• 11:45
  There's one thing on and then you're kind of just, you're kind of, you're all sitting down and watching, maybe sitting down, watching a movie together.
• 11:51
  I'm seeing the shape of co viewing change where it's less about say, event TV like that, and it's more about parents having a connection that they watch something like Inspector Gadget, right?
• 12:05
  Like something that they grew up on with their kid or they're watching maybe, you know, it could be something like even like older skewing, like the Gilmore Girls, right?
• 12:13
  Like that, that, that kids have a show that they watch usually with just one parent as well, where they're like, this is what I watch at my dad, this is what I watch at my mom.
• 12:21
  And, and that's really lovely because it's very, there is an intentional, real, intentional connection to connection about it rather than it being just happen.
• 12:31
  It's, it's, it's driven by the instance or the happenstance of it because it Happens to be the one thing that's on the, on the TV that people want to watch.
• 12:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 12:40
  I think YouTube say that 49% of parents watch YouTube with their kids by Wild Brain.
• 12:46
  We see that shared behavior even more strongly with 99% of wild brain.
• 12:51
  Families enjoy shared screen time at least once a week and a third do it multiple times a day.
• 12:56
  So I think it, it's not just.
• 12:58
  It is what to your point, Emily, is what are they watching?
• 13:00
  What are they coming together around and back to that kind of cross generational trusted ip.
• 13:06
  Yeah, it's that kind of cross generational kind of.
• 13:09
  It's kind of the currency of that connection really, isn't it?
• 13:12
  And it reminds me a bit of the way that people used to share the music that they loved with their kids.
• 13:18
  It kind of has that same ability to kind of make that connection.
• 13:22
  And that's why I call co viewing the most undervalued audience segment in advertising right now.
• 13:28
  Because it's like since it moved from traditional tv where advertisers spent fortune trying to reach moms in co viewing environments, since it's moved from traditional TV, it's now fragmented.
• 13:42
  It's across YouTube, it's across streaming, it's across TV gaming.
• 13:47
  It's like everyone's just thinks, I say the mum's gone into the cupboard under the stairs.
• 13:55
  I wish.
• 13:56
  So peaceful there.
• 13:58
  That'd be lovely.
• 14:00
  She's not under the stairs.
• 14:01
  She can't see.
• 14:03
  She wishes she was.
• 14:07
  No, I know.
• 14:08
  And it's.
• 14:08
  And we've worked a bit on this, Emma, with the Coalition for Innovative Media Measurement.
• 14:12
  Right.
• 14:13
  Like trying to measure this has become just such a difficult thing.
• 14:17
  And that's the issue, right, that we know there is a really high influence environment there that advertisers can get a piece of and we can unlock, you know, some funding for the kids media industry at large.
• 14:30
  But measuring, measuring the co viewing experience across all the different devices is so challenging.
• 14:36
  YouTube have brought up a few changes recently, haven't they, around this where they're looking at attributing some of this, know, number of people in the room stuff.
• 14:44
  Did you catch any of that?
• 14:46
  Yeah, they have.
• 14:47
  I talk to YouTube a lot about this because I'm not sure if the methodology really takes into consideration the kids environment because it is nuanced and it is different to, you know, not adult environments but other environments.
• 15:02
  So you've got to assume that 100% of the audience is a kid.
• 15:05
  Right.
• 15:06
  You might have one or two kids, crazy people watching preschool content but you've got to assume that 100% of the audience is kids.
• 15:14
  So then what's the incremental?
• 15:16
  And when we get results back it doesn't.
• 15:18
  It's pretty standard with the rest of the industry.
• 15:21
  So I don't think the methodology really takes into consideration the nuance of the.
• 15:26
  Kids space given that measurement is so tricky and we've spoken before on here about how sometimes the inventory that does allow you to reach kids is not even sold because of the trickiness around measurement.
• 15:49
  Do you think that that's kind of meant that people just don't bother, advertisers don't bother or they've, or they've equated it to mean low value.
• 15:56
  And I'm not sure which is worst.
• 15:59
  Either they assume that kids are low value or they just don't even bother to try and reach them, which is a massive disincentive to investment obviously.
• 16:07
  It really is.
• 16:08
  Look, privacy protections for kids are absolutely essential.
• 16:11
  Right.
• 16:11
  I think everyone in the kids space can agree on that.
• 16:14
  But we need to also understand how we can attribute, target and measure advertising within the space because it seems to be that if we can't accommodate it for compliance in the kids space then advertisers just automatically turn off.
• 16:32
  So we've got you know, the toys and the studios which continue to invest in the space but outside of that like non endemic family travel, family auto, family insurance, they're just not looking at the space.
• 16:44
  And I think they're missing a really, really big opportunity with Gen Alpha short term and long term.
• 16:50
  But Emily, to your point earlier mentioning sim, we're really proud to be part of their which is the coalition for innovative media Measurement.
• 17:00
  You know, we're part their industry wide effort to build better privacy safe ways to measure the true impact of the kids space.
• 17:10
  And they're bringing together advertisers, agencies, media owners, platforms, they're bringing together everyone across the ecosystem which I think is really, really important because we all need to come together collectively to be able to drive change and you know,
• 17:25
  progress the industry.
• 17:28
  And what about influence then Emma?
• 17:30
  Are you guys running any studies that look at that right, kids influence into purchasing powers?
• 17:34
  Because I feel like that's another thing that's a bit misunderstood and under considered underrated.
• 17:42
  We absolutely are.
• 17:43
  Like I talk about Gen Alpha a lot.
• 17:45
  I think the importance of Gen Alpha, the biggest thing that I think brands and advertisers are missing right now is that the general the Gen Alpha opportunity is now it's not in 10 years time when they have you
• 17:58
  know, a credit card of their own.
• 17:59
  It's now a short term influence with households but it's long term building that brand loyalty with the next big consumer force.
• 18:08
  But right now Gen Alpha, you know, when you look at travel's a great example, you know, collectively reaching the family together to spark that discussion about a destination or somewhere to go drives that.
• 18:23
  And when kids are involved in the planning process of holidays, it shows up in research that they are 80% happier on that vacation.
• 18:33
  Like they feel like they've had engagement in it and they're part of it.
• 18:37
  And I think that's really, really powerful.
• 18:39
  It's not just the person swiping the credit card and paying for it.
• 18:42
  It's the decision makers that have come together to influence the destination, where they're going, what they're doing, where they're going to eat.
• 18:50
  So that's kind of the short term opportunity right now.
• 18:52
  But the long term opportunity, Gen Alpha in 2029 will control 5.46 trillion in advertising spend in sorry purchase spend that is huge.
• 19:05
  So like building that brand loyalty now is really, really important for brands.
• 19:12
  Yeah, I do and I think it's also a case of, you know, this generation are growing up online, they understand, you know the nuances of, of the Internet far better than we do.
• 19:25
  Also Gen Z parents as well understand that the nuances of what good Internet looks like and good, you know, you know, lifelong kind of commitments to brands who have turned up in a, in a positive way, in a
• 19:36
  constructive way, in a productive way that, that really impacts kind of that long term spend.
• 19:43
  I think of, I think of platforms like YouTube.
• 19:44
  Right.
• 19:45
  And YouTube is like trying to do things but ultimately it's a UGC platform.
• 19:49
  It's full of stuff that's not, that's not safe.
• 19:53
  Right.
• 19:53
  That's, that's the reality of it.
• 19:55
  Versus platforms like Netflix like we said, who are fully curated and are more leaning into that trust as a cap as, as a piece of capital.
• 20:04
  I would say versus YouTube that they're one USP or one of their USPs versus YouTube is such is the fact that they are trustworthy and you can see that coming through and what they're doing around games and stuff
• 20:13
  like that and that's, that will have a long term impact.
• 20:16
  I have to believe it.
• 20:19
  Yeah, I agree.
• 20:19
  Just jumping in.
• 20:20
  I, it, it makes me slightly grumpy that we've kind of forgotten just how smart kids are.
• 20:29
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  Because that Gen Alpha are the most media savvy generation.
• 20:35
  They're making value judgments at 10, 11 years old as to which brands they want to back because they happen to like the way they message or the creator that they're working with.
• 20:45
  And it, it is a bit sad to me that, I mean, most people that work in these agencies and advertising kind of businesses, a lot of them have got kids.
• 20:54
  Do they not have that in their own family?
• 20:57
  Like, my two kids have been my research and research department for the last 10 years.
• 21:02
  You know, from everything to what does six, seven mean?
• 21:05
  To where should we go on holiday?
• 21:07
  So, yeah, it's, it's a bit crazy that people aren't acknowledging just how powerful a consumer force they are.
• 21:16
  Even for that.
• 21:17
  That basic opportunity for serving.
• 21:21
  Serving like jingles at you.
• 21:23
  So, like, I've had it like, because we all remember, like, don't make me sing the McDonald's Slim a soup ad.
• 21:28
  I will do it.
• 21:29
  I'll never forget it because I had it on my video recording of Annie and so I had to watch it every single time I wanted to watch the.
• 21:37
  I had to watch all the ads again every time I had the video.
• 21:40
  But like, you know, you can really reach kids.
• 21:42
  You can capture their imagination, right.
• 21:43
  Like they're discerning, but they're also really fun.
• 21:46
  And you can have a lot of fun with them as like, you know, as I said, there's this one furniture brand which my son sings at me sometimes.
• 21:54
  Right.
• 21:54
  Because it's just funny.
• 21:55
  Yeah.
• 21:55
  I mean, it feels a bit like.
• 21:57
  Cause that audience isn't measured in the same way sometimes.
• 22:00
  There's a lack of curiosity from brands and advertisers in that audience because they don't appear on their dashboard in the same way as other audiences do.
• 22:09
  They still.
• 22:10
  But it's still kind of such an important, valuable audience there.
• 22:13
  You look at like, go compare or compare the meerkat.
• 22:15
  And what they've done is really like, would have included, you know, the kids audience in a major way, I would say.
• 22:21
  Yeah, definitely.
• 22:23
  I think that is one of the most successful British advertising campaigns of all time.
• 22:29
  Both of them.
• 22:29
  But go compare.
• 22:30
  Because it's kind of funny.
• 22:31
  There are.
• 22:31
  Against each other.
• 22:32
  Go compare and compare the meerka.
• 22:34
  There's their, their.
• 22:35
  Yeah, that's, it's, it's.
• 22:36
  It's so funny.
• 22:38
  Especially in, in insurance, right.
• 22:40
  When that is a really good example of when you have a family, it really goes from me to we and then all the priority of making sure you have the right insurance is really important.
• 22:50
  So it makes sense that insurance brands should be in, you know, family and kids spaces.
• 22:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:00
  What do you find when you're looking at trust and how you can value it?
• 23:04
  When you're talking to brand partners, how do you frame it to them?
• 23:09
  And eventually does the light bulb go on for them?
• 23:13
  Yeah, in terms of framing it, I think it's really about what I came to earlier about the three different people that you need to think about when we're doing it.
• 23:23
  The moment the kids and the dad.
• 23:26
  I shouldn't discount dads because dads are becoming increasingly important in this conversation and, you know, family dynamics have really shifted.
• 23:33
  So them, the kids and the platforms.
• 23:37
  So for advertisers, I think kids entertainment gives you a trusted route into the environment where if, if you're working with the right franchise, the right creators, it gives you that trusted route in, into the lives of families.
• 23:56
  And it already puts you, you know, it does a lot of the hard work.
• 23:59
  The kids content does a lot of the hard work for you because, you know, a family sat there watching it, they trust it.
• 24:05
  A brand ad comes up is that kind of instant connection of trust.
• 24:10
  So kids IP can play a really big role in doing a lot of the legwork for brands in being able to build that trust.
• 24:18
  Absolutely.
• 24:19
  I remember I was listening to an advertiser and he was talking about the importance of that kind of emotional connection with an ip.
• 24:26
  And I think kids media has that in, in abundance, really, that emotional connection.
• 24:31
  And I think if you can ever, if content can make you feel something, you're never going to forget how you, how somebody made you feel.
• 24:38
  And I think that association can be quite a powerful thing for an advertiser and a.
• 24:44
  Just around that space.
• 24:46
  I agree.
• 24:47
  I've seen a lot different conferences across this year.
• 24:50
  People starting to talk about joy and how joy should be not just a creative nice to have, but it should be a KPI.
• 24:58
  And I think in a world where, you know, it's very hard to avoid AI, you know, every conference is about the role of AI, the evolution of AI, and obviously it's transformational.
• 25:08
  But I think what's really interesting is what can't AI create, recreate.
• 25:13
  And for me, one of those things is a very human reaction to joy.
• 25:16
  You know, we live in a world that is very overwhelming.
• 25:20
  Attention's fragmented.
• 25:22
  Trust is harder to earn and audiences are looking for moments that feel warm, they feel genuinely uplifting and joy really drives that connection and safe.
• 25:32
  What are you guys thinking at wildrain in terms of the types of advertisers that you're bringing on then Are you looking for folks who, you know, obviously, that you're vetting to ensure that trustworthiness is there, that are willing
• 25:43
  to be playful in terms of how they're executing?
• 25:46
  Like, I'd love to hear more about that.
• 25:48
  Yeah, I think it depends what.
• 25:50
  What we're doing with them.
• 25:51
  Right.
• 25:51
  Because, you know, our.
• 25:53
  Our mission is to connect brands and advertisers with families.
• 25:59
  Free video advertising, and that's a big part of our business, but the other part of it is branded content and integrating brands into storylines in.
• 26:09
  In more of a way.
• 26:10
  And I think that's really important because I think brands really need to figure out what.
• 26:16
  How do they go from just getting their ad in front of someone, but also think about how can we actually create something that people want to watch?
• 26:26
  And that's really interesting bit for me because then it really comes down to the power of IP.
• 26:31
  So when I look at our IPs, things like the Teletubby Strawberry Shortcake, it's the characters that kids love.
• 26:38
  And I think that for brands, that gives you something incredibly difficult to manufacture from scratch.
• 26:44
  You're already, like, going.
• 26:45
  It comes back to what I was just saying, but you're already entering love, familiarity and that emotional connection.
• 26:51
  So for me, when we're talking to brands and pulling them into rip, the opportunity is really about branded content because it allows you to take that equity that we have with the audience and do some additive for them.
• 27:07
  So then the brand can really become part of the entertainment and create something that genuinely feels loved by the families and families want to choose to spend their time with it.
• 27:17
  So my question on that was, how do you kind of ensure that a brand is participating in that trusted relationship rather than just borrowing the trust from the ip?
• 27:28
  It has to come back to the brand DNA and the brand values, and there has to be an overlap with them.
• 27:35
  We can't take a square and put it into a round hole.
• 27:39
  Right.
• 27:39
  There has to be that crossover.
• 27:41
  Ultimately, our audience is the most important thing to us.
• 27:45
  So we have to make sure that brands coming into it truly add value and align with our franchise DNA, whatever that might be.
• 27:54
  I can see that, because I think sometimes when you see another brand just kind of stamp their logo onto an ip, if it, if it's a.
• 28:03
  If it's a misfit, if it doesn't kind of doesn't match those two, the IP with the brand, it kind of feels like it sort of potentially undermines both.
• 28:12
  And Gen Alpha are the biggest.
• 28:14
  The, The.
• 28:16
  The first people to call out like A lack of authentic integration.
• 28:20
  You know, as we know, you know, they're digital native, they've been brought up on digital platforms.
• 28:25
  If something isn't authentic they will call it out.
• 28:28
  You see them calling out AI now they're not massive fans of AI in creative and they're the first to call it out.
• 28:36
  It's so fascinating, isn't it?
• 28:37
  Because what we're talking about with regards to this trust thing is it's so hard won and it can be lost in an instant.
• 28:45
  But in a sense if you take the time to understand and to make the effort to win it, that's where the value is.
• 28:53
  As we've said, we've spoken about their inbuilt spam filter.
• 28:58
  They're the most media savvy generation really adept at screening out rubbish or stuff.
• 29:03
  Build it up.
• 29:03
  Spam filter.
• 29:04
  That's amazing Joe.
• 29:05
  I'm going to have to steal that.
• 29:07
  But then you got go down to that layer of trust which you've identified which is kind of co viewing and familiar IP and then actually if you can work with a brand to genuinely integrate in branded content again
• 29:21
  you get down to a deeper level of trust that is, is potentially much more valuable than just putting in an ad into a programmatic black box and it fires it out to a billion places on the Internet.
• 29:31
  So I mean it feel, it feels like it makes commercial sense but it can't be that easy, right?
• 29:38
  No, it's not.
• 29:39
  Like I said, the biggest part is the education to the industry, right.
• 29:43
  And the biggest challenge right now is quantifying the Gen Alpha opportunity.
• 29:50
  It's quantifying why brands should be thinking about the made for Kids space and reaching families before we even get to the creative execution and the great ideas, branded content, it's the education around those two pieces and I think
• 30:04
  that's where everyone as an industry needs to come together to really drive that narrative forward.
• 30:10
  I think you've also touched upon something that's when you've mentioned about them having a real kind of radar for AI and not being particularly enamored a bit.
• 30:21
  I think sometimes that comes down to that trust question again is that, is that it's, it's often pretending to be something that they don't think it is.
• 30:31
  So that's kind of, sometimes I think.
• 30:34
  It's a trust issue there as well.
• 30:37
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:39
  Do you think that.
• 30:39
  So how do we quantify trust, Emma?
• 30:41
  Like how, how are we, like what can we do to sell this back to the industry?
• 30:45
  What can we do to harness it?
• 30:46
  Although like Maybe that's not the answer.
• 30:48
  What are your thoughts on that?
• 30:51
  I think there's a few things around trust and how we quantify it.
• 30:55
  I think we need to look at thinking about it.
• 30:59
  We need to think about the ip, the creators, the publishers, and bring all of those things together to be able to look at who's best positioned to be able to create that trust with audiences.
• 31:13
  Because I don't think you can do it in a silo.
• 31:15
  Right.
• 31:16
  I think franchising creators can build that trust, but if it's on the wrong platform, then your trust is lost.
• 31:24
  And to everything.
• 31:25
  Your point earlier, Joe, you can build trust, but then if it's gone.
• 31:29
  Yeah.
• 31:29
  And then you can't build it back.
• 31:30
  Or very rarely you build it back.
• 31:32
  Right.
• 31:32
  Once it's gone, it's gone.
• 31:34
  So all of those things need to come together to be able to quantify it.
• 31:38
  It's the quality of programming and content is really important and that doesn't mean it has to be broadcast quality.
• 31:46
  Right.
• 31:47
  There's a lot of really great creators out there, but that do really good content that parents trust.
• 31:54
  Ms.
• 31:54
  Rachel's a great example of that.
• 31:57
  They trust it.
• 31:58
  It's great content, it's quality content.
• 32:01
  So bringing that element of it.
• 32:02
  But the platforms as well.
• 32:03
  And I think there is a role for the platforms to step up as well and talk about what trust means to them, how they're managing the algorithms in this niche and very important space and how we bring that
• 32:16
  all together.
• 32:17
  Then for the advertising community,.
• 32:21
  That makes a lot of sense and I think it is an opportunity.
• 32:25
  Right.
• 32:26
  Because there's brands that are set to kind of could really capitalize on this.
• 32:30
  Right.
• 32:31
  Because it feels like it's a white space.
• 32:33
  It definitely is.
• 32:34
  I see it very much as a white space.
• 32:37
  And I think it's really important space.
• 32:39
  Right.
• 32:40
  Because content for kids is not just entertainment.
• 32:42
  It actually really shapes the values of and what kids believe.
• 32:47
  So if we're gonna get really high level, like the content that they watch as kids can really create the adults of tomorrow.
• 32:53
  So it is a really important space that does deserve the time, the attention, the measurement and the consideration.
• 33:02
  It's proved in the fact that Emily can still sing the advert from in her Annie vhs.
• 33:08
  We can all still sing the theme tunes from our favorite shows when we were nine.
• 33:13
  You know, a lot of people still bank with the same bank that they had their first kids bank account with.
• 33:19
  I mean, yeah, it is a level.
• 33:22
  Yeah.
• 33:22
  It's a level of affinity that is formed at such a key Time that endures a lot longer than at any other time in life.
• 33:30
  Right.
• 33:31
  It's so true.
• 33:33
  Kids between 6 and 8 years old start, you know, developing their preferences.
• 33:37
  They have a say in, you know, what car the family drives.
• 33:41
  You know, like it's where they're going on vacation.
• 33:43
  They're building those preferences.
• 33:44
  I always talk about Heinz ketchup because it's all I'll ever have in my fridge because it was my childhood.
• 33:50
  And yet the same thing, I still bank of NatWest because when I was 13 I got a NAS NatWest account.
• 33:56
  So it really is that comes back to that long term roi because I know people are like, oh, my marketing budget right now has to, has to concentrate on short term roi.
• 34:06
  I need to drive sales today, which is absolutely get it right.
• 34:11
  You've got a CFO who is putting pressure on you to be like, where's the sales numbers?
• 34:15
  That makes complete sense.
• 34:18
  But if, if you're, if you're only thinking about short term ROI and you're not thinking about long term ROI with Gen Alpha, I think you're really missing a trick.
• 34:27
  Your future fans, your fuse, your future consumers, that pipeline.
• 34:31
  Exactly.
• 34:32
  And it's building trust with them at a time in content that they already trust and love.
• 34:39
  Sense.
• 34:39
  I mean, so what's the one thing we should do from this conversation, Emma?
• 34:44
  Like, I mean, obviously the SIM work is continuing, which I think is great.
• 34:47
  You are continuing to fly the flag about why advertisers need to take the space seriously.
• 34:52
  Is there anything else that you think could be done to kind of help push this conversation forward?
• 34:59
  I think we need to stop asking whether kids audiences are worth investing in and start building the right ways to invest in them.
• 35:07
  That I think is fundamentally important.
• 35:10
  Advertisers absolutely need to understand where families are spending their time.
• 35:16
  And you know, again, some of that is the SIM work.
• 35:18
  I feel like some of these work streams are already in motion.
• 35:23
  We need to accelerate them because, you know, we need to be able to drive this forward in a quicker way because, you know, we've talked about it a lot before and I think we're all quite passionate about this.
• 35:34
  We.
• 35:34
  But the long term sustainability of kids content is genuinely at risk.
• 35:40
  And it's tied to advertising revenue for good or bad at this moment in time.
• 35:44
  So we really need to get a handle on it.
• 35:46
  I don't think there's any putting that genie back in the bottle.
• 35:49
  So I agree, it's not if we should, it's just how.
• 35:53
  Yeah, and there's a, there's a there's a role right for the platforms to play there because they need to provide transparency and credible evidence of value.
• 36:02
  Coming back to the co viewing, that for me would be the biggest unlock in this space.
• 36:07
  If I could say, you know, we've all got a co viewing stats.
• 36:10
  I mentioned some of mine earlier.
• 36:12
  All, you know, the people in the same space say a similar kind of number but that's, you know, that's research I need to be able to validate for a client in campaign that, you know, out of a million
• 36:26
  impressions that they bought, 90% of those were co viewed by a parent as well.
• 36:31
  That for me, once we get that measurement that is the biggest unlock for ad dollars coming into the space.
• 36:39
  In.
• 36:39
  Bringing, you know, panel measurement, you know, through to connected TVs, all that kind of stuff.
• 36:44
  Bringing it closer to the, I want to say bringing it back to the original broadcast model, bringing that type of third party measurement through is probably the answer to that.
• 36:54
  Yeah.
• 36:54
  Which can be done in a COPA compliant way to make sure that the privacy of kids is protected online.
• 37:01
  There are ways that we can do it, but yes, it's probably the more traditional Barb panel or Nielsen panel that we all love.
• 37:10
  Well, Emma Witkowski, VP Media Solutions, WildBrain, we love chatting to you.
• 37:14
  Come back again soon, will you?
• 37:15
  I love hanging out with you guys.
• 37:17
  Thanks so much for that Emma and I hope you guys enjoyed listening to it.
• 37:20
  I think conversations like this are so important for us to be having.
• 37:25
  Please like and subscribe and listen and watch wherever you get your podcast and we'll see you all at the next one.