Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #98 - Lindsay Allison

Transcript

#98 - Lindsay Allison · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lariello.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited today to bring you guys a conversation with none other than Lindsay Allison.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: We spoke just fresh off of her win at the Lake Sonoma Marathon, as well as a couple of weeks removed from her podium finish at the big Alta 50K in California.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We got into a lot of stuff.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun conversation.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Lindsay had actually just recently this year joined the Altra team.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We talked about how that calendar and her big goals and we talked about 2024 and kind of what led her to joining the ultra team.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, super fun conversation.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: One more thing we jumped into that I thought was kind of interesting and compelling was just living and training in Telluride.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: What an interesting place.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most beautiful mountain towns in the country, if not the world, and kind of the pros and cons of being able to live in one of these beautiful places and how she sometimes will split time between California, where she grew up and went to college, and Colorado.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: It's a great conversation.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate Lindsay for coming on the podcast and letting me help tell her story.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, none other than Lindsay Allison Time.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Listen up, guys.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA Guys, I am so excited UD just dropped their new RaceVest 6L and UltraVest 12L in two beautiful aesthetic colors.
• 2:43
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• 2:45
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• 3:02
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• 3:07
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• 3:14
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• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Allison, welcome to the steep stuff podcast.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: How's it going?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's good.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm stoked to finally have a conversation.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like when I started this podcast, I always put together like lists of folks I want to eventually have on and you've been on that list, so start to finally have a conversation and and get to chat.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: And how's your?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, how's your day going?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Day is going well mid work day for me but we got um a really awesome tan summit this morning.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm in the Bay area right now, um, so that always kicks the day off strong.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I'm jealous, I'm jealous.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It was a boring track run for me, but I feel you on the uh sneaking out in the middle of the day to do podcasts.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: It's kind of my, it's kind of how I my MO right now.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Um, so all right, let's get started.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe give me I'd love to hear the five minute elevator pitch on like your background with running Obviously you've got like a really cool background.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe talk about Stanford, where you grew up, and things like that.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Um, so I grew up in the Bay area, um, and I I wasn't really a runner, I was more of just an athlete.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Um, my family is very active.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Um, so I grew up playing soccer.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of gymnastics, actually did trampoline, which is a competitive sport.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Gymnastics actually did trampoline, which is a competitive sport, believe it or not.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I ski, raced, so a lot of different things, and running was dabbled in there.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: For sure I did a little bit of cross country, you know, honestly, in middle school, a little bit in high school, but more so even earlier on, but really just grew up active and really loved the outdoors.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Grew up active and really loved the outdoors.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: And then, let's see, I did do some cross country in high school and that was sort of where my ultra running interest was peaked.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I some people might know Alex Varner he's like a old name in the sport but basically he was a assistant cross country coach in my high school and he would kind of come in randomly from time to time and we really connected my senior year and that was the year I think it was his first Western States and that was the first time I'd heard of Western States, and so I think that actually really was the start for me of like, wow, I didn't know people could run that far, I didn't know people wanted to run that far, but I was really intrigued by it, and so that was kind of in my mind, I would say, as I went to college.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I went to Stanford, I wasn't on the track team or anything, but I definitely just ran for fun.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: And my junior year I made a friend who was also sort of in the running community.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: He had done the rut a couple of times growing up, he grew up in Montana, and so I think that was again like, oh, look at this, another person who does this type of running that I'm super interested in, and I think I really just needed a person to show me what that would look like.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: So I started running more seriously, I would say, in college and then, you know, did the first trail half marathon and then ended up doing my first 50k actually the day before my graduation, which was a funny, a fun little little thing.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: That was a broken arrow, but yeah, yeah, basically, like since college I've just I just really fell in love with the sport, I would say, and, um, have just kind of continued doing it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Um, I basically, after I graduated, I moved to Telluride um for the summer.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: A friend was working in the restaurant, or she was.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: She got a job working at the newspaper Um, and I I kind of came cause I had a job after college but, um, it was going to start nine months later.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: So I went with her um just for fun and that was where I really fell in love with like true mountain running Um, so that was kind of my intro there.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And then basically since then, um, I moved back to Boulder for the job.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: After I was in Telluride for a little bit um lived with Andy Wacker and Carly, which many people do.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: They're great Um.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So that was again like I feel like my progression has really just been getting more and more involved in the community and loving the community so much that I keep running and then keep pushing myself and kind of finding I've really found it through through that Avenue.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: So sometime in Boulder and then we went back to, we moved back to Telluride about three and a half years ago now and um, so it's really been just kind of like continuing that journey over time Super cool.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I got to go back and ask you about competitive trampoline, Like what?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: What like how do the point systems work?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Like, how do they score it?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: What a rad sport.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It sounds dope.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an Olympic sport.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: You can watch it in the Olympics, um, yeah, it's it.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: So it's it's like gymnastics, but there's three events.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: There's trampoline like literally the trampoline.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: You do 10 skills, um, and there's like one compulsory routine that everyone does and then one optional routine where you make it up but it has to have certain difficulty, um, and then you're judged like similar to gymnastics, just on form and difficulty, um.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And then there's two more events one is called the double mini, which is like a trampoline, sort of like a vault like you run up to, you do a skill onto it and a skill off of it.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: And the last one's tumbling, which is basically like on the floor exercise in gymnastics, like they're actual tumbling passes.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: That's all you do.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: There's no dancing involved.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: It's just like the, the, the tumbling part.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I, I got into it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I was doing gymnastics competitively growing from the time I was in like first grade or something, and then I hurt my elbow, um, and and our gym was starting a trampoline program and so I couldn't really do gymnastics, cause your elbow is pretty important, um, but I could do trampoline and so I kind of gotten it, gotten into it through that, and then yeah, I just I really enjoyed it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: It was also easy to do with multiple sports because, um, it was a lot less time than gymnastics typically is.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: You know, gymnastics can be like five hours a day type thing, Um, but trampoline was a lot more reasonable.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So I would go from like swim team to soccer to trampoline and it was all doable, whereas gymnastics was not, was not going to be that sustainable with other things.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: That's crazy, All right, Well, I you know what I appreciate you.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: You, that was a lot of information.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I'm actually like really impressed and super stoked on it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like all right, it's cool.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: You should watch it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: People are really good at it the next time the Olympics are on.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely one of those ones that's on at midnight Not really in prime time, but it's still fun to watch.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So you live in Telluride, so I live in the Front Range.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I'm in Colorado Springs.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I love Telluride.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I love the San Juans.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most beautiful places in the world in my opinion.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of pros and cons.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of the pros is the access.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: The cons are probably the ability to travel and get places, especially as a professional athlete.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Can you maybe just talk about that?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: What is it like living there and what do you like when you don't like?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good question.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, where to even start?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: So I think.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: So the pros are are pretty obvious.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, the mountains are unreal.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I think I'm super biased, but I think the San Juan's are the best mountains in the U?
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: S like by far, and so I think just being able to be in the mountains is just really special.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I also, so I work full time as well and I I just think, like having the access I do with the job I do, like the best case is Telluride, because I can be in the Alpine at 6 AM and then I can be in my desk at nine and um, you know, living other places, you can definitely do similar things, but the fact that I can actually go on a mountain run for work, I think, is that there's just nothing that can compare to that Um, so I'm super grateful for that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Other pros the community is amazing.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: It's really tight knit.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Um, we actually have quite a few runners um and more runners over time.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Like when we moved there three and a half years ago, there was not very many runners and we've had this kind of like people who've been doing other types of sports um have kind of dabbled in running over time and it's it's just really fun to have that group of people and see some people progress and you know it's it's just a really it's a special group and I think with that, I really like how you're not as embedded in like the insanity of running culture, if you, if you know what I mean.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of the running community is amazing, but it can definitely become overwhelming, I think, when you've got a bunch of people doing a bunch of workouts and you know they're doing their own run at a certain time cause they want to get whatever stats they want for the day, and, um, the Telluride community is like the opposite of that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: You know it's really just about oh, this person really wants to do this route Cause it looks so cool and they want to get on top of whatever mountain this day, and I really love that.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: That perspective, um, which I think is is you, it's not unique, to tell you right, but it's definitely emphasized there Like running is about the experience of running rather than the stats, um, and so it's interesting to kind of like thread the needle there, um, but yes, there are a lot of cons and I think so the first one for me, like having a job.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I do think there are trade-offs of deciding to take a full-time job, remote, as opposed to being in the office, like there's career trade-offs that I'm definitely making and I think right now they're the right trade-offs, but I don't know where I want to be in five years, and so I do think about that sometimes, like I am taking a risk and I and I think I'm focusing on running and, you know, emphasizing that part of my life right now, um, and I think it's the right decision, but I do think there is something there.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: You know I love being in the mountains, but it's definitely deciding to prioritize that part of my life over a career right now, which I'm happy doing for now.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, it's really hard to get places.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: It's super remote in Telluride.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: You know the nearest airport's 80 minutes away and even then you have to go from there to denver, to them, wherever you want to be, um, so that's really hard, um, and then also, honestly, like if you have anything that happens to you medically, yeah, it's really hard to get help too.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like if you have, you know, if you think you have a stress fracture, you need an mri.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to go to Montrose.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: So there's a clinic but you know anything more in depth than that?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: You're driving 90 minutes each way.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: In the three and a half years that you've been there, like how much have you seen it change?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Cause it's like I don't know we've seen in Colorado, especially in the mountain towns, like just like an inundation of folks from like out of state and it's like raised the prices drastically.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So it's got to be.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's an added stress as well, just because things are so expensive in these tiny towns and it's got to be harder to live Right.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: It's definitely changed over the last three and a half years.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I kind of think I entered a little bit when when that influx was happening.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So you know it was.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: It was 2021, during COVID.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of remote people that's when I moved to Colorado.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that was part of the change, but definitely over time.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: You know there's a lot of challenges in small mountain towns, like you said.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Housing is really difficult and prices going up don't help anything.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it definitely has changed.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: It's staying pretty true, I think, to its roots, and I think the one thing that is good about Telluride is it's pretty landlocked and there's not much room for sprawl, so we don't get the same sprawling growth which would cause all sorts of other issues.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: But you definitely get the like internal small mountain town conflicts that arise over time.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's super interesting.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I do want to ask about the running community, cause we kind of we did touch on that a little bit.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: You said more and more people have kind of come in.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Is it like a good mix of like, do you get a lot of climbers, do you get a lot of like people from the mountaineering and ski communities as well?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: That kind of like?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Make this up, cause it's, I feel, like the San Juans are this interesting intersection of all kinds of mountain athlete, would you say like that makes it up as well.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Um, basically there's there's I don't want to oversimplify Telluride running community, so forgive me, Telluride people.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But I think there's kind of two types of people.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Like, there are some people who run year round me, ryan, my partner included, and so you know there's some people who are doing it for the competition, for like the love of true running.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But then I'd say there's this other population of people which are the mountain people, who ski in the winter, do all these epic backcountry routes, and then in the summer there's no snow, so they just do the same stuff, but on foot, and they're all just incredible athletes.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: That's the cool part about it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: None of them I I don't think would say they're focused on running, but they're really good at it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and so I think it's it's just cool to see a different side of the sport where you know those people just love being in the mountains and running is the most efficient way in the summer.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Um, so we do get the the the running community swells, swells in the summer and definitely dwindles in the winter, but, um, I kind of love that, like you see different people, you're running with different people.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Um get inspired by their really Epic routes, um, in the winter and in the summer.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: So but yeah, it's definitely you get the climbing ski people that are kind of transitioning into running for the summer months.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: It's interesting too because, like you said, in the summer it's got a.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Is that annoying to you?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you probably travel a lot Like I.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It's funny Like I'm I find myself I live very close to Manitou Springs, where the Manitou incline is, so we get a lot of tourists and like especially now, now that it's like starting to get into tourist season, it drives me nuts Like is it something?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Does it?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Is it a little stressful having more and more people?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like that would drive me crazy, especially in a town like that.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: No, because at the end of the day, we're talking about the running community going from five people to 20 people, not 22 thousands.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: So, no, I love it.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's more people getting into running.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: We have like a weekly Tuesday night squad run and last summer we were getting like 30 people and I that was just.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: That was awesome.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the more people that get into running in these small communities, the better.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: But I know what you're saying.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: It's a different scale.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I would not be saying the same things.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I think the Boulder folks can probably agree with me too.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I had to go up to Boulder for a photo shoot recently it was like on a Sunday and I was like, oh my God, like I could never live there, like I thought the incline was crazy, like this is bananas.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, it's really crazy During the hard rock season.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: That's got fun for you too, like I know.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think I remember seeing you on the live stream.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was like you and Ryan.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Uh, what were you pacing Like Nick Corey, a couple of years ago or last year, like that had to have been a super fun like part.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Does that inspire you at all to want to do hard rock one day, or yeah?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's awesome to see um hard rock come through.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Every year.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite weekends, for sure.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Um, it's super inspiring.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I hope that I can do hard rock someday.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It's daunting because I have zero qualifiers, so I have zero tickets.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So I definitely think about that, though I and maybe that's a different conversation we can have but I'm I feel like I'm slowly getting to the point where I want to do some of those a hundred miles.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I've definitely focused on some of the shorter stuff up until now and so, but in the back of my mind, I'm like I should really do one of these soon so I can get into hard rock someday 60 by the time you get in.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I think I mean the course is amazing.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I've done soft rock before and it's, it's so, it's.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: It's such a great course and I just love, um, you know, when everyone's here and can see that it's really special.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, so I don't want to bury the lead too much.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: You're wearing an Altra shirt.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You just signed with Altra this year.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: First of all, congratulations.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Super, super cool.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: What a cool brand.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Great shoes, great apparel.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Altra a little bit.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: How did that partnership come to be and what are your thoughts so far?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: little bit Like how did that partnership come to be Like and what are your thoughts so far?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great question.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Um, I, so it came about because Amanda Basham and I have to give her a shout out because she's incredible.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Um, she, honestly, we had we had raced together at the McDowell mountain run this year, just the 25K, but we chatted for a while after the race and she really just reached out and said, hey, have you considered chatting with Ultra?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: And so from there she connected me with the brand manager and we really just hit it off and it kind of went from there and I just think that's so cool.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like there are a number of women in the sport that are so that are really looking out for other women and I think that's pretty unique to trail running and, yeah, I'm really grateful.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I think that a lot of the sport is like being given the right opportunities.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So I think Amanda's amazing and I'm really grateful for her to like have thought of me and yeah, so I think that was I'm very grateful to her.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Um, but, yeah, I've, I really love the shoes I and I I don't think Colby the brand manager will mind me saying this, but you know, I was pretty skeptical when I first was chatting with him.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I was like I'll try the shoes, but I don't know what's going to happen.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: But I've been blown away.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think, being with the brand at this time, where they're they really are changing.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: They have a new product officer, chief product officer, and stuff is they're real, they're really innovating.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I'm also sample size, which is great because I've tried some of the new stuff and it's get, it's just getting better.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: So I've been super excited, super excited about the products and yeah, it's just been, it's just getting better.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: So I've been super excited, super excited about the products, um, and yeah, it's just been.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It's been great to be a part of a team, um, and I'm I'm super grateful to ultra for, uh, you know, supporting me and for taking a chance on me really, um, and again to Amanda, because I think, um, we need more people like her in the sport for sure.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Dude Amanda's amazing Good people and also has the probably the biggest calves I've ever seen in my life.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Like I was astounded.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: It could be the ultras, that's what does it?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: What um?
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So, as far as shoe goes like what?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: What were you racing um the big Alton when you went through?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I was racing in the Mont Blanc carbons, so their carbon trail shoe, which I really like.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I found that most of the shoes to me they don't feel like zero drop, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: But I was expecting to feel when I started trying the shoes that it would feel very different, very flat, but they don't feel like that to me.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I've really enjoyed the carbon shoe, um, and that's been my primary racing shoe and probably will continue to be Um.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm really excited about some of the new stuff as well.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Well, congratulations and yeah what.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great fit to like just a cool brand.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I was really stoked that, like you know, like they made a lot of like big splash this year with Tara Dower signing her to a landmark deal and, you know, just signing more women to the team.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's like what they're doing is is awesome, so super cool.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree yeah.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Um, all right, let's talk big Alta.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: So you just got back.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: You got on the podium at big Alta um, second place to a monster in Tabor, Hemming, Like what was.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that race a little bit.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: What was it like throwing down on some of your home trails and how did that feel?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, yeah, big author was great.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I first of all just shout out to free trail um and day break, cause it's a really awesome course.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I really hope I.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: You know people have been saying they hope this race kind of becomes the new early season opener, and I totally echo that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I think it's an awesome race um to kick off the season with.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: But, but yeah, the the race went really well.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I um it's, you know, hindsight, 2020, but I, so I started, I started off um a little bit behind Tabor and then there was another girl um with her who ran with her most the race um, which was awesome to see um.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: But I started out with Keely Henninger, um, and we were chatting for a couple miles and I really enjoyed that.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I'm very chatty when racing.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: It's one of the things I'm working on, not chatting during racing um, but yeah, so I kind of like let a gap form toward the beginning of the race Um, and it sort of just held for the whole day, um, and I was able to reel in the other woman I think her name's Aaron um toward, I forget, around like 20, 20 some miles, um, but the gap to taper like it really was just staying the same Um, and I'd need to like fact check myself on that.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: But I think in the last eight or so miles I was, there was a segment for it and it was like we were 20 seconds apart, so it really felt like this gap opened and then it stayed Um, and so I you know, in hindsight I'm like, oh, I wonder if I had just tried to hold with her for a little bit longer, what would have happened?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that's definitely something I've been working on like feeling like I belong with those types of amazing runners.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: So I've been thinking about that in hindsight.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: But obviously, you know, you can't speculate about what would have happened.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: But I think that was my biggest takeaway from the day of just being more willing to put myself out there at the start of races and just see what happens, because I think I have developed confidence in myself in the later stages of races over time.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: But I definitely the early stages of the race is where I usually doubt myself more.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: So that was my biggest takeaway.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But amazing trails, love seeing all my friends.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: That was my biggest takeaway.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: But amazing trails, love seeing all my friends.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: There's so many friends out here and so I think just seeing those people on the course and, um, yeah, it was a really it was a really awesome day.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, hats off to Tabor.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: She ran super fast off of really no trail training.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: So she's, she's, yeah, she's on but you know, kudos to you, man, second place, second place and like and it was a fairly stacked field in 50k for women like kill it.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Like you said, kill you was there.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Like quite a few really strong women came there to uh to throw down.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So congratulations, and I'm sure it must have been super special, especially like with the fact that, like it's, you know, not too far from you, know where you grow up and stuff like that, which is super cool.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, it's funny you fact that like it's, you know, not too far from you, know where you grew up and stuff like that, which is super cool.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, it's funny, you say that, like I think, after watching and like following along, I'm like dude, I'm definitely going to the 28 K next year.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Like it's a super like, I like that people show up, it's competitive and yeah, I just love everything free trail starting to put together for it, which is cool.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: So I think they're a big reason that it's gotten so big.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the race is, the course is awesome.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: It's so runnable steep but so runnable, it's like the perfect early season.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Good, good, butt kicker for for the beginning of the season.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Cause I knew when we first started the podcast you had said something about Mount Tam like maybe talk about like the specialness of that to the area and just like how special that.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like every time I see a story of yours on Instagram like you're usually like on one of those trails or somewhere on there, so I was like it's gotta be a special mountain for you, so maybe talk about that, yeah, so I, um, I went to high school at the base of Mount Tam, basically, um, by Phoenix Lake, if people know what that is, but by Phoenix Lake, if people know what that is.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: But when I ran in high school we were a mile from Phoenix Lake, which is like the base of the Mount Tam Trail system.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's been a staple in my life basically since I was what, 14 or whatever.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I love those trails.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: It's where I fell in love with trail running to begin with, um, and then I think what's really special is in high school, you know, you're running three to five miles a day, right, like your long run is eight miles and it feels like forever, um, and I, I think it's been really cool to come back here over time.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: And you know, as I get more and more into running, I can go farther and farther.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Um, I love maps and I love, just like, being able to connect all these parts of Mount Tam that I didn't even know you could connect.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're young you're like, oh, stinson beach, that's way far away, and they're like, oh, wait, I can run there now, um, so I think that's been really special over time.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: And and I honestly think it's something that most people who grew up here probably don't ever experience, and so I'm it's not lost on me that I just feel grateful that I can come back to the place I grew up.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I love it so much and I'm able to to see it in like a totally different way that I sort of knew existed but I really didn't growing up here.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Um so, yeah, I I love Mount Tam and I could could run there forever.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: That's super cool.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the dipsy race.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I saw on your um, on some of your uh like your ultrasound and stuff like that, you had done the quad dipsy but I didn't check and I should have checked this at the results of like the actual dipsy race, I figured I'd just ask you have you ever done the act like the true and try dipsy and like what does that race to you?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have done the true and try gypsy.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Um, I did it the year after I graduated high school.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Um, it's a trip, it's.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: It's a crazy race.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: It's so cool.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, if if listeners haven't heard of it, definitely look it up.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But there's like this handicap, um starting system where the youngest people start first.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Um, or it's kind of it's.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: It's too hard to explain.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and so the.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: The idea is that whoever crosses the finish line should handy, like, should actually win, with handicaps based on age and health, basically just on age, I think, um, and gender, I guess, um.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: But so there's there's that part which is the beginning of the race, and then there's the I think that's called the invitational, and then there's like the general race, which is, I think it's equally split, 500 people on 500 people.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: So a thousand people on this trail is crazy.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: It's a seven mile race, um, and so I was you.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Every when you first get into the Dipsy, you're in the general masses and in order to get into the race the next year, automatically you have to basically get into the top 500.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: So you're like chasing the people that have started before you.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So it was just a chaos, like you know, you've got people ahead of you who are slower because, but they are, but they're in the invitational section.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: So it's just like a chaos of humans basically.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: But it's so fun.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I I don't, you know, I don't remember everything about it, but I just remember, you know, passing people, knowing people, saying hi to people.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just, it's just really a chaotic but awesome experience.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: So but yeah, that was, that was a special, a special race I did then.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: And then when I was growing up though I had heard of one of my friend's dads would always do the quad dipsy and I at the time I was like that is psychotic, who would do the dipsy four times?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I can, I can hardly imagine doing it once.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as an aside, on our swim team.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I was on the swim team growing up and once a year we would all just hike the dipsy to the beach and then we'd have a beach day.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So that was like my frame of reference for the Dipsy at the time, like, oh my gosh, someone's not hiking this, they're running it and they're doing it four times.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: But as I got into ultra running over time, I was like, well, I need to do that.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I've done the quad three times, three or four times now and I love it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's an awesome race.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I got to get out there for the like the traditional dipsy.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: One of these days it's definitely on the list.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I've had a Mark Tatum on who's won it a few years back and he like won't stop talking about it.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: It's like his favorite thing on the planet.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I got to.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I got to see what the hype is all about.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It seems I just love when you get these races that are just like so special to a community, like your Mount Marathons, your dipsies, your Pikes Peaks, like some of these races are just like so deeply like intertwined with the community itself.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: That it's.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: It's just so special.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Totally, and it's so.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so old that it's so much history.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I think that's really really special as well.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I gotta ask you not to.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pivot a little bit out of racing.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: It's just so interesting to me because every now and then I'll talk to a power couple in the sport like Taylor Stack and his partner.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It's just interesting to me because Ryan is to me, as someone who follows SubUltra so closely, one of the best SubUltra athletes in the country easily one of the best sub ultra athletes in the country, easily.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Um, big Ryan fan.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: What is it like for, I guess, to like have a partner that's also like a athlete at a high level?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Like, do you guys get out and train a lot together?
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Do you have separate training schedules?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Like what is what does that look like?
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: It's gotta be like give and take, cause maybe he wants to do some races that you don't, or vice versa.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Like what is that like?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I appreciate calling him out, Cause I I also think he's one of the best and I don't feel like he gets enough recognition.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know that he deserves to, for sure, yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah it's, it's really fun, but it's definitely sometimes stressful.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Um, it's funny to compare.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I'll watch the Hemings YouTube video and they do a lot of their stuff together and that's my dream.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Like, if I could run every day with Ryan, I would, but he doesn't feel the same.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm too slow but um, but yeah, it's, um, it's interesting.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: So, ryan, I honestly have to credit him for a lot of my success over the past couple of years.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Um, cause he pretty much has done all of my workouts with me over the past couple of years, which is like that's really incredible, like you know, and he's sometimes doesn't his own pace and but he's there like supporting me for most of my workouts, which is really really special.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: But we typically do a couple runs a week together.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I would say he always does my workout.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: We typically do one like adventure run on the weekend together at least, and then kind of randomly throughout the week.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: It is hard.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: He also doesn't run as much as me.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I run a lot and he is prone to Achilles problems, so he'll, you know, he tries to limit himself, um, and does a lot of biking.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: So most days I would say it's we're kind of doing our own thing.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: We also have really different schedules, cause he works, um, at a restaurant, so he works in the evenings most days, whereas you know I'm working relative like nine to five ish, and so I'm doing most of my runs like very early in the morning or after work, um, but we usually do a couple of runs a week together, I would say, and then the weekends we try to do more of the adventure stuff, um, but yeah, it's, it's definitely the past couple of years we've done similar races and we typically do do similar races.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I would say this year will be interesting.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: He is hoping to get into Leadville via the.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: There's like a Tahoe Leadville race this year.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, it's cool.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Actually it's like a 50k.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say it to too many people, but yeah, they added, they added another race.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So he, it's cool, Actually it's like a 50 K, I don't want to say it to too many people but, um, but yeah, they added a, they added another race.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: So he's trying to do that.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: But I think Leadville training versus I'll be training for like speed goat and CCC, it's pretty different.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Leadville is pretty fat, flat, flat and fast, um, whereas obviously I'm trying to do way more mountainous stuff.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: So we'll see how that evolves.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: But I feel like typically our training has been similar enough that at least the adventure runs make the most sense to do together.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: You guys should start a YouTube.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: You got to do, you got to like a, like a training YouTube would be kind of cool.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I always tell people to do this.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: It'd be kind of kind of fun to follow.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I love all this influx of YouTube.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Right and Substack.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of good Substacks lately.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: No, it's super cool and thanks for being candid Like I.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It's always interesting to me because you know you meet a lot of people.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: There's not as many couples in the sport that are athletes at a very high level, so it's always interesting to see, like what's give and take and how you guys form your schedules and stuff like that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about your schedule.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: So you've got Broken Arrow coming up, 46K.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything before that or is it just Broken Arrow, right?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: now?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I'm debating a couple of things, but I probably will just train to Broken Arrow at this point.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Super cool it's I don't know like just scrolling through your, it's been really interesting to see you and very cool to see you like evolve and continue to get like incrementally, like three places better at broken arrow almost every year and like last time around you got fourth.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: So I feel like you know the odds could possibly be it could be in your favor this year, are you is the goal to try to get, uh, on the world's team um no, I mean like yes, but no, I guess, is my answer.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I, I want to do the best I can at broken arrow is my goal.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: The world's team?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Like no, I'm racing ccc, that's my goal.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: So I think it would wouldn't really make a ton of sense to do worlds, though I would love to.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Um, so my goal is really just to race a super competitive field at Broken Arrow.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited for it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Um, I uh, broken Arrow is my favorite race for a lot of reasons, but um, so I think just being able to be in such a stacked field will be really, really cool.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Um, if that ends up being worlds up, you know, you know great, but I don't think that's.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: It's not my intent okay, interesting.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the first person that said that to me.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Like, usually people are like I guess it is my goal.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't really put it into that because I I like, yes, that'd be amazing, but I have you know, there's other things that are happening and people have talked about whether it's responsible even to race worlds, and one of the UTMB races.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: So I haven't put much thought into it, I guess is what I would say, just because it feels a little bit out of reach.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: But you never know, yeah, you never know.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I mean you've had some amazing finishes.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I mean you've gotten.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Now you've what did?
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You win the triple crown and you've had great finishes at the 23 K and the 46 K.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: The 46 K seems to be your distance there.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you never know.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: You never know.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fun to follow along.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: You did say it's your favorite race for so many reasons.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see like what, what?
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: What is it that about that race?
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: That's just so uh, like the reason you love it so much.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the most obvious reason is that I grew up ski racing at Palisades, um, so it's like I, literally from the time I was two, my parents drove me to Tahoe every weekend and I skied there every single weekend my whole life.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: So it that mountain is like, so special to me, um, and to my family, so it really feels like home, like I feel possessive over the mountain, like that is my stomping grounds, Um, and like I I there's part of the course that is the main area we would train for downhill skiing.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: So just to like, I remember the first time I did it, just thinking what I'm going up it this makes no sense Like, just like the, the concept of running Broken Arrow.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: The first time I did it was so mind boggling to me but also so eyeopening to be like, wow, this is steeper than I thought.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: You know, those types of realizations were really fun.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: But so that's the first reason.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: And then, um, it was my first 50 K.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: So I think that it just feels like a again, like a different form of homecoming every year, where I have gotten a lot better at it over the years and I think that's really cool to see over time.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And um, you know it just, yeah, the the significance of the race itself to me just being a part of my upbringing, and then also just it's become this kind of like fitness check of my progression over time, and so I think that's that also just feels really special.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, of course, like it's just become such a great atmosphere, um, so many people come, brendan does an amazing job um organizing it, and you know it's such a fun weekend, um that, yeah, I, I just I will always go back to that race.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: It's, it's cool.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I got engaged there.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I like, yeah, I love that race.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's, it's such a special place, special like I don't know, it's a really cool race and one of these years I got to go back.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's move on from broken arrow.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I do want to talk about speed goat.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Last year you raced speed goat.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: You said this year you're going back, right?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's a hard race to get right, I hate speed goat, it's something about it.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe talk about it Like what do you think you can I don't know improve on or change or mix it up for for this year, cause it's it seems to be a good test piece for races like CCC.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, things like that.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: It's really long time wise, so I think it it's a good training stimulus.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I, so I, I think I made it.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I just made some mistakes going into it, like I think I um, I didn't taper very well I so my my biggest problem with running is that I love, I love being in the mountains and so, especially in the summer, the Telluride summer is so fleeting that I just want to fit everything in and I want to do every route and I want to do them every week and I want to.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: I basically just want to maximize my summer, but Speedco falls like right in the middle of the summer, basically, and so it was last year.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I just felt this crazy pull of like oh, I really want to do this route because I think it's like the only weekend I can do it versus, you know, I should taper, et cetera.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: So in hindsight probably didn't execute that very well, um, so that was probably issue number one.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: But then last year I I really did start having like a number of stomach issues, um, which I had never experienced before.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and in hindsight it's so I feel so silly like admitting this, but I had no idea that precision gels had no sodium when I started using them.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Like they kind of came onto the scene last year and I was like I should just try this gel and I I I guess I just wasn't as plugged into fueling Um and I so I was taking all these gels cause I really liked them, I thought they worked well, but I was taking them with no sodium and so I think that was the cause of many of my stomach issues at the time and I think that's probably what happened at speed goat.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't, I was just a little bit nauseous for a lot of the day but I I definitely just didn't feel very good and I think that was a combination of the overtraining slightly and, you know, not really nailing the fueling Um.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: So I think those two things are going to be good to think about next year, this, this year Um.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I think I don't know how you know that race.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: It's interesting because the first climb is actually pretty runnable and I think it's I it was almost too runnable for me compared to telluride terrain, because telluride train is mostly not runnable.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: So I think I need to figure out how to maintain less or just more runnable um.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I need to work on, I need to train on those more, I think this year Um, and just see, see, see how that goes.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Gotcha the runnable class, it's like.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I think the thing too, and this kind of, this kind of maybe goes hand in hand with fueling, like that was that side of that.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Wasatch just gets cooked and like baked in the sun you get so hot in there.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: It was also very hot.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I raced the Cirque series races this summer in there and I was like I was astonished by how like toasty it was.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did not like that.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: I almost forgot.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I forgot about that.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets super hot.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I don't know what's up.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: What is your fueling strategy like now?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Like do you what do you do?
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, now I work with Vic Johnson shout out, vic Johnson, he's the best.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: So that's been really helpful.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I, I, I partnered with the feed, um, so I use all sorts of stuff, but, um, yeah, I I've kind of had a journey of fueling this year.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I would say, like Black Canyon.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I messed up my Black Canyon significantly because of fueling.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I think in hindsight I was actually taking too much in.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I think I got overwhelmed with the high carb fueling era and I don't think everyone needs it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: To be honest, I'm pretty small and so I think I think I just it was a calibration issue, but I feel like.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: So now Vicks helped me kind of dial that back a little bit, and then I've been so everyone's obsessed with sweat testing.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I got an H drop which is like a sensor that you can wear on a regular basis, and that's been really helpful for me, actually, because in Telluride we don't have a sweat testing facility, so I can't.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I can't do these like one-off tests as well as much, but having this thing I can wear every day if I want has been really helpful for figuring out like, what do I need?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Can?
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you talk about that for a second Like, what kind of like?
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: What metrics are you getting off of that?
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Is it just so you get?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: your fluid loss.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: So, liters per hour, you get your sodium concentration lost um, absolute and per liter, I think you.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: And then there's some like potassium, other other electrolytes, um, but it's it's it's game changing, I think, because your sweat rate does change a little bit.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: So being able to dial it in or understand like, oh, if I'm working, I'm doing a workout, it's going to be higher, if I'm going to go for a longer run, it's going to change, like this, like that's been really helpful, especially coming from winter and Telluride where it was freezing, and that now I'm in the Bay Area and it's, you know, 60s, 70s, so that's been really interesting and super helpful.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty, despite my precision mishap, I am fairly data oriented.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: So having that data or just that information, has really helped me and it makes a lot of sense, like, in hindsight, a lot of the things I've like, you know, sometimes I've been like, oh, I feel like I do need more salt and like, sure enough, I'm like slightly saltier relative to my fluid loss.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: So I think data like that has been really interesting and good to kind of confirm biases or, you know, change some things up.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: So that's been, that's been pretty helpful.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Does it like I have so many questions?
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: This thing's amazing.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I want to go buy one right now you should.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Does it like it like?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Sticks you almost like in the blood.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: No, I wish I had it.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: It's basically like it's like a square, it's like one inch by one inch and it I don't really know there's a sensor on the back of it and you put it.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: You can just like, put it on an armband or something they they give you an armband, you can put it on Um, and it absorbs your sweat, and so it does.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: And I think it has some sort of extrapolation calculator that you know, based on however much is coming off of your arm, um, it extrapolates to how much that correlates to with your whole body, um, and it seems relatively accurate.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I don't know, but I did do.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I did one sweat test that was official and it's close enough.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: They're close enough that I feel like I'm pretty confident in it.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I also just think, getting the volume of tests you start to narrow in on, like, okay, this is the range that's probably accurate, but but yeah, I'm I mean, not sponsored.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I just yeah, you just sold me on it.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Probably 10 people probably just bought it too.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been talking about.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I've been talking about it to a lot of the Marin people as well and they're like, oh, I'm buying this.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a great idea.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I, I have a buddy that just literally went to scratch like two weeks ago and what gotten got the sweat test and he's like you should go, you should do it, and I'm lazy, I'm like his sub ultra.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, do I, like I don't need to pay attention to that stuff, but like still, for training and getting like, I'm always about like, okay, what can I do to maximize every variable possible?
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: That's one way to do it, you know, especially when it comes to like um, you know, from a hydration perspective, especially here in the summer, because it's so dry and it's so hot that it's always good to know things like that so interesting.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, super cool.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: All right, so we talked about speed.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Go where.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Let's get into CCC.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Have you?
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Have you ever run a hundred K?
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, okay.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: One out of three successful.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I would say Okay, okay, wow, all right, you still.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Are you stoked to go over there and like see what, what sham.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've already ran over there before, so you saw what it's never I haven't raced any of you team bad utm events.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: But a couple years ago ryan raced occ and then we did the tour to monterosa utmr race, which that race is awesome sounds cool but I'm I'm really excited.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I think, um, I haven't done a mountainous hundred K before and I definitely feel like that's more up my alley than I've.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I've basically done black Canyon twice.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Both times have been wildly unsuccessful, and then I raised Kodiak last year and that went actually pretty well.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: So, um, but I think that the mountainous stuff is more up my alley.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I actually did Madeira a couple years ago, um the 50 mile which didn't.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: It didn't go.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: It was fine, but, um, I'm more excited by the longer mountainous stuff rather than the longer flatter stuff, stuff, I would say.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm intrigued.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: I also I feel like my I train, like I run a hundred miles all the time.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I don't, but I feel like I'm.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to see what that will translate to Cause I, I feel like I'm ready and capable of running a good CCC, but I think it'll be a little bit of.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: We'll just see what happens super cool.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: You went over there with ryan and you saw occ.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: You did your own race as well.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: What was like the atmosphere in chamonix is bananas right.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Like are you guys gonna stay in sham proper, are you gonna stay out of there?
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Like what, what's the what's that plan like?
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know, we'll see.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I think ultra is getting some form of house, so I'll probably just stay wherever they're staying, but I think the atmosphere is crazy.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: But it's so fun, like I feel like I saw so many of my friends there that I hadn't seen in years, just from all over the US, and that's pretty cool to be like oh, I don't see you at home, but I see you in Chamonix, I guess.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really wild.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: It's definitely a little bit overwhelming.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: So maybe the move will be stay outside and then come in for a couple of days.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: How does that work?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Does Altria plan to have?
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, because they're one of the bigger brands I would imagine they plan to have a gigantic presence there.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I assume.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm not totally sure.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: There haven't been many details yet, but I think so.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Super cool, super cool.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like if I was to ever do 100K which I never planned to do, but the one would probably be CCC.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: That course looks so cool.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: It looks really cool.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited about it.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Super cool.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's get into.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I have one more thing to ask you and I slip my mind up, Maybe it'll come to me before the end.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Um, let's get into some questions.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear like oh, that's what it was with um training.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Do you work with a coach?
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I recently switched coaches, um, I'm working with Rick Floyd, who coaches MK, and Helen Mia Faulkner and a couple other people Um, so yeah, that's been Rick's great.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Rick, um.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I've worked with a number of coaches over the years, um, and I've enjoyed working with all of them.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: So, just you know, recent switch feel like a new stimulus has been good for me.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Um, just a switch in training has been pretty helpful, um yeah, what does your?
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: if you don't want me asking, you can.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: You could tell me as much of this as you want, but like, like what you said.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: You kind of said like I trained more like a hundred mile athlete, like what.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: What did you mean by that?
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Like more volume, or like I run really high mileage.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Um, so I, I would say um, over the past like two or three years I've been running pretty high.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe three or four years I guess I've been running pretty high mileage.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I usually run a hundred to 115 miles a week, I would say um, in the summer it's more, and you know well, it kind of just depends for et cetera.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: But I run pretty high mileage and I really like it.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: And that goes back to like I really just love running.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: So if I can do more of it and my body has knock on wood, um been able to take a lot of that, um, I will, I'll do this, I'll do as much as my body will let me.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: But Rick has been good at trying to help me reign it in a little bit and, you know, think about quality over quantity a little bit.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: So, um, I definitely pulled back my training a little bit this winter and I think it's only been beneficial.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: So I don't, I don't know what the future will look like, but, um, you know I do like I like to run high mileage and I hope I can keep doing that for a while.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Dude, that's crazy.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: A hundred to 115 miles a week, like wow, that's like way more than I do.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: That's impressive, oh my God.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Do you do like three structured workouts a week, or like two?
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: structured workouts.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Like, how many workouts does he put in there for you?
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Um, usually two ish.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's been, I guess, when I was training for big Alta and then Lake Sonoma.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: We're doing a little less volume, but I was doing two pretty solid workouts week, um, and then sometimes it'll be like one workout and then a long run.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: That's harder, has some sort of stimulus in there.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, I would say like one to two is probably more standard, just cause I do run so much it's hard.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: To three would be uh, uh, unadvisable.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: What do you do for recovery?
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Or you just like sit like at work and just sit in the moods and like no, I just sit here.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Wow, wow, do you eat like a crazy amount of calories Like after your runs.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I'm just so impressed because, like that's a lot of miles yeah, um, I, yeah, I, I mean I eat a lot, um, and I think I, I do, I I go to bed really early.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like it's always a trade-off, right.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Like I think that, um, actually this goes back to when I was my first job out of college was really intense, like people work 80 hours a week type thing at this company and people were telling me, like you know, you're never going to be able to run that much.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: You're crazy.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Like good luck.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Ha ha Type thing and I was like, well, you just have to choose what you care about.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: And so I did.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I just kept running, Cause I and I didn't really, you know, you, you trade off something.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I wasn't sleeping very much at the time or, like you know, not really hanging out with that many friends outside of running, like that type of thing.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: So I think now it's similar Like I, you just make trade-offs, like I pretty much work and I run and that's about it.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: So I think you know, and so I think just sitting and working all day is it's mentally exhausting, but it is.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I compare it to Ryan or some of my friends that work in the restaurant industry.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Like they're on their feet every night for seven to 10 hours, right, Like that's very different than being able to just kind of relax, at least physically, during the day.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it feels to me like a trade-off more than anything.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing and impressive.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: I can relate to that.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: A lot People ask me like well, what do you do?
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Do you like to do anything?
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: No, my life is pretty much.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: It's pretty much the podcast running day job and then I go to bed at like 8.30, 9 o'clock and yeah, and try to get nine hours of sleep so I'm recovered.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: It's not so glamorous but it's fun.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: It is, it is, and you know, I think, like you don't know, you don't know, a little bit like maybe I'm really tired all the time and I just don't realize.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Like it's sort of a relative problem.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Um, because I am tired, you know like, and I probably and I and I do I, to be fair like doing a little bit less mileage this winter, I have felt better like.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like I can push harder in my workouts, like things like that.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: So I sure I am You're teetering at some point, right, but I feel like I'm, I'm at least like on the good side of it for now.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: Um, so you got to do what works for you.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you do you, uh, do you do any like strength and plyo work as well?
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: A little bit.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I I couple of days a week.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I do Minor Nothing.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Crazy though I was doing more strength training last year, but still like.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Another problem with living in Telluride is we have no gyms that are affordable.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: The cheapest gym is over $300 a month, and so that's just not going to happen or something.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: There's two gyms, one's $300 a month and one's $400 a month, so that's just out of the question.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: So we're working on our home gym setup.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: But a lot of my like.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: If I had access to a gym I probably would do a little less running and more strength training, but it's you know, it's a trade off you make yeah, no, fair enough.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Are you a music person?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Do you train with music at all?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Not really, to be honest.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: I prefer podcasts.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of podcasts when I run what's your favorite pod.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Oh man Putting me on the spot.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I really like Hard Fork outside of running.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: It's like a tech podcast, um, by the new york times and it's the two guys that host.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: They're hilarious.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: It's very insightful and it's hilarious.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: So that's probably my favorite.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: But you know I make the rounds in the running podcasts.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Gotta, gotta, keep, keep up with the sport.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely like a true fan of the sport, so I'm always just looking for for running content as well.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: oh, I'm gonna put you on the spot now.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't have said that who's your, who's your, who's your favorite runner?
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: gosh, I don't know, there's too many.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: I will say, okay, I'll give you, I'll give you an answer.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Um, I feel like so.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: When I was getting into running, or getting into ultra running, it was like 2017.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And that was like the rise of Lucy Bartholomew and Courtney DeWalter, um, and so those two have always kind of held a different.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: My friend and I were just on a weekend trip, camping and running, and we were by the Western States trail and it happened to be the the Western States training weekend and we like passed both of them at this camp and I was like, oh my gosh, so I don't know, I've always really I feel like they they're good, they're good mentors in the sport, so I've always looked up to them.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: That's a good one.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, I was on the streets of Silverton this summer it was right after we got married and we had like a bunch of family in town.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: We got married like outside of Silverton.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Like just so happened to be hard rock weekend and so I don't know, I think we just took the family to go see silverton because my grandparents were there like all right, come see this cool mountain to victorian mining town and yada, yada, yada.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: And like we're walking down the street and I, courtney, walked right past me and I, it was like right after she went hard rock and I was like whoa, like that's, it's, I don't know.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, like I don't even know what it is about her, but like just that star power that even I was like.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: I was like very starstruck when I saw her.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I was like wow, that's cool and she's tinier real life than I thought she would be.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it was, it was interesting, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really liked them both.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I appreciate Lucy's like honesty and um in her path.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: That's been pretty cool to see.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some amazing athletes in our sport.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Sorry to put you on the spot with that one I've never asked that before, but it's been in the back of my head to ask somebody so.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: I don't have a favorite, but at least I have a reason for those, for those.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense All right.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: So I know you said you're less of a music person, more podcast person.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Do appreciate the podcast answer on that.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious do you have a hype up song or a pump up song that you're going to listen to?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so basically, like all the music I find is through Ryan, like he he's a music guy.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I just I I'm very um, my brain focuses on one thing, and so I, when I work, no noise, like zero noise, I can't have, can't do coffee shop work, I can't do anything like that.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: No music, nothing, um, so anything I find is like all Ryan, um, and last year was it last year, yeah, before Broken Arrow he was like really obsessed with um, a Tear in glass animals.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: We must have listened to this freaking song thousands of times and I got really into it and I, I'm, I'm like a very um, what's the right word?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Spatial, uh, sensory person, I don't know, that's probably not the right word, but like I associate music with places or like experiences pretty strongly, and that was like the race went really well.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: I listened to that song like a number of times right before it started, and so I feel like, actually, ever since then that has been my pump up song, just because it puts me like right back to that day or that experience.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's, that's the one for now, but I feel like that's how my also my, my music taste goes, like I'll have an experience with one song and then it just becomes I like latch onto it and then I find a new one.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm not very exciting in the in the music world.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I do this, I recycle music all the time or I'll find like a song I'll hear on, like Instagram and like like I just heard, like here I go Again by Whitesnake, which is like an 80s or 90s song.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I've been playing that like nonstop.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Like this is amazing.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: My wife's like what is wrong with you?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I get it.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I gotta ask you a Stanford question and it's funny like I don't.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends have gone to like really good schools.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I went to Miami and I just found it to be like a rich kid school.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: I to be like a rich kid's school.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I wasn't that impressed.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Stanford is like one of the top institutions in the world.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: What was it like as an undergrad going there?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Like does it live up to the hype for you?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Like did it?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Pretty legit, I think.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: So the best part about Stanford is people, and I think most people say that about most schools, but I truly believe it and I generally believe you can get about the same education most places.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: You learn things.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: You're in huge classes for the most part.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: The people and the um either like with the professors or with classmates that really do make the experience Um, and there is, there is something special about Stanford.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: People, I think, like super motivated um, but usually like for something other than themselves.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Like it a lot of it was just really motivating to be surrounded by these people, cause they really did.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Like it sounds so cliche, but like it feels like they want to do do something to help the world.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Um, and a lot of them had already, and that's like the crazy part is like, oh yeah, this person started this thing and this person um, and so it's just like it's so motivating um to be there and everyone is like so genuine.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: It's a really special place um, I don't know how they, how they get that student body, but they're really good at it.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think it's really cool that you live um.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: So freshman year.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Um, the dorm assignments are random, I think, like the athletes don't live together and like you can't actually choose where you live, so everyone is interspersed, and so there's really like you meet everyone.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: And I think that's like a really cool part of it too, because you know, I think I really most of my friends were athletes and I thought that was like really special as well, just that you could get really close to people who you who felt a little bit.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I think at some schools they're kind of do their own thing, so I think that was really special yeah it was good.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: It was a good place.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: So most of your friends were athletes.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Do you still stay in touch with some of the athletes Like I?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Some of my best friends in undergrad were swimmers.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Like one swim two.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of swimmer friends.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: You swim the 400.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I am almost like a 50 free.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: But like it's funny now how the roles are reversed because I wasn't an athlete in college I know I am now yeah, it's like it kind of creates like a funny conversation.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Like they're like like one's like totally out of shape and like kind of obese.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, like what are you doing?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's kind of funny, that is funny um, it's funny, I was friends with a couple runners not not a ton, but um, it is a lot, a lot of the stanford runners that were, you know, grant fisher.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: I was at school with him and oh wow like elise was in my grade like it's, you know, it's people like that.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh nope, they're still still crushing it.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Still amazing, still amazing.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: It is funny.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: There's like definitely a divergence.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: That happens after college, like, and I, and I do think Stanford I mean I'm going to completely oversimplify by saying this but I feel like a lot of the coaches do care about, like, the longevity of people in their sport, so I do feel like people have actually stayed.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: I mean again like I'm totally oversimplifying maybe running specifically Like it seems like a lot of those people are still doing the sport, which is pretty cool, yeah, whereas it's easy to burn out, I think after college for a lot of people.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, For sure.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: All right Back to running.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I got to ask you well, it could be running, Could it be in life?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious who inspires you?
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Oh man, a lot of people struggling to think of someone in particular.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: I think I've always been most inspired by people who are multifac, are like multifaceted or have like multiple things going on, and so, oh gosh, I guess two examples sort of come to mind, like one in the work on the work side.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I've always been fascinated by like who leads these companies and who they are.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: And, um, I have found that when I look up at the different companies I've worked for, like, the people who've always inspired me have been the ones that don't just work or like they're not, they're really good at their job and they're really inspiring.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: But they also, you know, they they exercise or they do like they have this deep hobby somewhere else, or, you know, I think like that pursuit of excellence, like with other things in your life, has always been um really inspiring to me, and I, you know, I think there's a number of runners um and people that that embody that Um.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: So I think those are, those are the people that I've I've been most inspired by like, those who have been able to maintain like two different parts of their life or like really excel in um in different areas.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: So that's really big but is balance?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: I just gotta ask you is is balance hard for you?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Cause like you run so much and like now you're running at it like running at a professional level and you're I mean from I did stock you on LinkedIn as well, so I I kind of have an idea of what you do.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: So like obviously you've got a big girl job balancing both.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: That's not like I listen, I've got a big boy job and I run and I have a podcast, like I don't know how I do it and sometimes I don't do it very well all three of them.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: So do you find it difficult to do, like to balance those?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and I think, um, yeah and I think that's kind of what I was saying earlier Like you do sacrifice something, um, but it's, yeah, it's really hard.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: I think like you have to.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: You have to have a reason that you're doing like everything you're doing, or else it's just never going to stick.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: Like what I was saying before, when I was my first job out of college, like the people, everyone was like, oh yeah, you're never going to run that much, like, but I was like, no, no, no, this is a priority.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Like this is, this is the non-negotiable part, and I think so.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: I think just framing things as, like these are the non-negotiables in my life and like these other things are important, but you know, I'm willing to sacrifice here or there versus like these are my two big rocks and these this is what I'm going to focus on um, but yeah, it does mean like something always falls to the wayside.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I have, I have a good job and I run a lot.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: But like my house is a mess, like you know, like there's always something that's going to to fall and it's not.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I wish my house wasn't a mess, but that's just what's going to happen for now.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: The dishes suffer.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the dishes suffer.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: I feel your pain there but it is hard and then you know like some days, yeah, you don't get very good sleep, or some days you, um, you know, there's, there's just something that always goes yeah.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's important.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's really like the point of that question is just to show the human side.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Like people see this amazing athlete on race day, right, and they I don't think people put two and two together sometimes oh yeah, they have a full-time job and they have this going on and they had that going on.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: It's the human side of it is interesting.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Totally Well, and it's hard in this sport too, where you kind of have to things this is true Unless you want to live in your van, then, yeah, it's not very easy.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, most people are hustling in some way, which is super inspiring, and maybe that's, like I think that's part of the reason why ultra running in general is so inspiring.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, very few people are just doing ultra running and I think that the community brings in that type of person that's, like you know, super motivated to go to TAM at 5.55 on, like a Wednesday, you know, before work or whatever it is, and I it's probably why it's like hard for me to find a specific person I can think of that inspires me, because it's really just like every person I interact with on a daily basis is like pretty inspiring.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: You know, like if those people weren't doing it, we probably wouldn't be doing it either.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: So I think just having these communities and pockets of people that um are really motivated by having the balance or trying to figure out the balance Cause that's we're all just trying to figure it out Um, but yeah, actually the someone who was, it was a work, it was in the work context, but it was like talking about like we don't have balance, actually, like life is inherently unbalanced.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: But you just have to like find the imbalance that you like, cause, like my life isn't balanced, it's very unbalanced, right, like most people aren't running this much and working, so I think it's like, yeah, it's just like finding that balance that you, that you're okay, the imbalance where you can function right.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly yeah.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: So now, as a professional in the sport, I had to ask you this too, because you kind of we kind of like I kind of glossed over and said something about I don't know living in your van or this, that and the other.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: What do you?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: What do you think of the professionalization of the sport?
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: Like you think it should get more professional or do you think it should stay more grassroots?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: This is a tough one because, like, I've wrestled with this a lot and I just always like to hear what other think I would love for it to stay grassroots, like my favorite races are the ones that are super homegrown.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people share that sentiment.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: But you can years ago, when, like, dossio was sponsoring UTMB or whatever, and there was a lot of pushback because that's a car company and that doesn't help the environment, and it does feel like there is this big we're at odds in this sport where, like, the reality is that if you want the sport to grow, you need investment, and it might not be the investment you want, um, but, like, if you want the sport to grow, then you need it.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: So it is this, I don't know, we're at this really interesting, uh, tipping point, I think, where, um, the sport should continue to grow, and I hope it does because I, you know, people are getting into it.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: It's such a great, you know, we love it and we should share that with other people, right?
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: But, um, it is going to change and so I don't know how you balance those things, but I, I, I feel like it's going to have to commercialize a little bit for the version that you know, like, if we want to become a super, um, you know, a sport that can pay people well, or, or, or any of these things.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Like, if we really wanted to develop into a sport that is out there, then it has to happen, um, but I hope.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: I hope that at least like a pocket of it stays the same yeah.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Like I don't think, like you think of, like I don't know because, like you're a san juan.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know you live in the san juans.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: So, like you see hard rock, which is so grassroots, right, and it's like it's, it's changed, it's grown a little bit like, but it's obviously because they're permitting it.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: You don't get more people but, the.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: The fanfare has has changed and grown, but like it, still remains the soul of what it is, so it's like.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: I always looked at our sport like as a soul sport in a lot of ways, like I just don't see, like you see, that speedy and fast component of it, yes, and like sub ultra and golden trail and things like that.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: But there's certain aspects, aspects of the sport that really have not changed over the years.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I don't know, I agree with what you're saying.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: I just don't.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: It's a, it's a roll of the dice and wake where things go.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: It's really hard.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: I think also we're seeing it.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: One specific example is actually there's this race in Telluride which is maybe the best race ever.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: It's called the Telluride mountain run.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: More people should do it but, um, they came up, they're having a permitting issue because the town of Telluride instead wants to have a bluegrass festival that weekend.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's probably going to push the race out, which is really sad.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: And then and I know this is like a slight tangent, but um, it's the same idea of, like, this small grassroots race in the community doesn't mean very much to the, to the the town, because it's not very lucrative for the town.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: But we have a million festivals, we have a million, you know.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: There's a bluegrass festival in every town, exactly.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: So it is this like there's always going to be this pull of.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: How do you keep something true to its roots?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: I guess the comparison I'm making is like to the town, like how do you keep Telluride genuine with these events that showcase the mountains or showcase, you know, this part of the community with also like yeah, at the end of the day, you're a town that's purely based on tourism, like I don't know, and I want, I want those like Telluride mountain runs, my favorite race, pretty much.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: Like how to I don't know, I don't know how you like make it, unless the spork gets really big and then it becomes really lucrative, like the UTMB style, but then you're like, well then that kills it.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't have, I'm just adding more complication, I think but no, no, I appreciate it.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I actually had reached out.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with this.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: I reached out to the race director when this information came out and tried to get him on to see if he wanted to come on.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: But they didn't want to talk about it because I guess there was some hearing or something.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: How did that go?
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: The hearing didn't didn't go well yeah, it's.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: It's just a shame like I've like long wanted to bring like a vk to tell your ride, because that's like one of the few places in the country where you could probably put like a proper one.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I don't know like it'd be cool to week like I don't know why I get rid of that race.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: That race is so perfect.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most full-on mountain races in the country outside of the rut and it's like damn, like yeah, it's really upsetting to see so it is really upsetting, yeah, and we'll probably keep seeing like similar stories, um, which is like, yeah, is it good for sports, bad for the sport, I don't know.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: It's not good for the community.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's good for the sport all in, but that doesn't necessarily.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I guess that's what I'm trying to say, like things that are good for the sport might not be good for the small.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: You know the grassroots version of it.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: So what do you prioritize, the sport or the feeling?
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Then you change the feeling I don't know it's tricky.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: It's tricky now, but these are good conversations.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: I have you know, um, all right.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: So last question I always ask somebody that, like I always ask like a stupid question.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: At the end it's usually bigfoot, aliens, ai, I gotta ask you because you're a tech person tell me me about your take on AI.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to become our evil robot overlords or do you think it's just going to be a tool we'll use in the next few years?
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Oh man, you're doing the hard questions.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty skeptical, I'm pretty cynical on technology in general.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: In high school I had a smartphone smartphone and then I got rid of it because I was like this is ruining our friend group, like people would just be Snapchatting like across the table.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: I was like I can't do this.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm very cynical.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: And then, sure enough, like here we are with phones and phone addictions and attention issues.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: So I kind of I don't know.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty I'm I'm worried that AI will take over like quite a bit Um, I don't know the timeframe it's going to happen on um or what it's really going to look like.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Um, and there's always like good and bad.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Right, like social media is good, we have people are able to promote themselves, but then we also have the flip side, which is that it's bad for mental health or whatever.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: So I, I assume AI is going to follow a similar trajectory, where it's going to be really powerful and really good in a lot of ways, but then there's going to be unintended consequences.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: That and those are those are what worry me.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, job market things like that.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: I, I, I don't know, I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I'm I'm skeptical same same.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as to say like evil robot overlord, yet, but like no it's more so, just like damn, it's gonna take everybody's job and like what do we do after that?
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: That's kind of that's a bummer, like it's not just a bummer, that's kind of horrible.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: so so it's definitely just going to change the way we live, which we've already.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: I feel like even in our lifetime we've already seen people like change the way they live multiple times.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: So it's just going to be another iteration of that.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: I think True.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: True.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a good place to end it.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Listen, lindsay.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: It was a great conversation, definitely looking forward to the future and everything you're going to accomplish this summer, and thanks so much.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, yeah.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a fun episode.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Lindsay so much for coming on the podcast and having a conversation.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Really appreciative that she came on the pod to let me help tell her story.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: So really fun.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Guys, before we get going, hop on Instagram.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: You could best support Lindsay by giving her a follow on Instagram.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: You could find her at L underscore Allison.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: That's L underscore A L L I S O N.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Hop on Instagram, give her a follow, send her a DM, let her know what you thought about the episode.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she'd love to hear um, all the words of encouragement before she embarks on her um, while she kind of already embarked, but as she before she embarks on her big 2025 summer season, I should say um, in a buildup to CCC.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: So, uh, guys, before you get going, if you enjoy this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or YouTube or wherever you guys get your podcast.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Last but not very least, this episode was brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Some big things coming down the pike from Ultimate Direction.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: We just dropped our new race six liter vest and ultra 12 liter vest Two amazing products to the product line that we're super excited to bring out Two beautiful aesthetic colorways as well, that I was super pumped on.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: When I say aesthetic, I mean like this beautiful onyx and green and a blue and white vest, which just dropped as well.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: So, guys, hop on ultimate directioncom.
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• 1:21:58
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• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: That purchase, an already affordable priced vest, just got more affordable with your 25% off.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: So, thanks so much, guys.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: Lots of fun stuff coming down the pike.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Ryan Becker was just on the pod, so that episode is going to be dropping next week, as well as Rachel Tomajek I always butcher her last name, sorry, rachel, but yeah, lots of cool pods coming out in the next few weeks and some big things coming down the pike for Broken Arrow and Soonapy.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: Thanks, guys, thank you.