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Prayer & Suffering · Reformed Thinking

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Is a reformed thinking intro prerecorded segment for the show
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Reformed thinking to start the audio.
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Welcome along to the Deep Dive. This is where we take a whole
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stack of sources on a topic and try to pull out the key insights
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for you. Give me a bit of a shortcut to
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getting up to speed. Today.
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We're getting into a really central part of the Christian
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life, something we all face understanding and dealing with
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suffering in a biblical way. We're drawing on some solid
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theological material here, focusing specifically on prayer
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and suffering. And our goal really for this
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deep dive is to distill what the Bible says about, you know, why
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suffering is even here, how God actually uses it, and how we as
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believers can respond well, especially through prayer, which
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should lead us hopefully towards finding God's comfort and seeing
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genuine spiritual growth in the process.
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So let's get right into it to kick things off, let's tackle
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that really fundamental question that when everyone asks at some
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point, why, why do we suffer? It's a question that can really
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shake you can it? Especially when you're right in
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the middle of something tough. It's not just academic then.
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So the sources we looked at, they seem to offer a pretty
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clear, singular biblical reason for why there's pain in the
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world. What is that?
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Yeah, it's it's quite direct. When you look at the biblical
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explanation presented in these sources, the answer is sin.
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That's the foundation. It's the root cause for all
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human pain, all mortality. You know, Paul lays this out
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very clearly in Romans 5, verse 12.
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He says just as sin came into the world through one man
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talking about Adam and death through sin, so death spread to
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all men because all sin. That verse is well, it's
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foundational for understanding the world we live in now.
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It means Adam's choice wasn't just, you know, a one off
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mistake. It brought in this this
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universal condition because humanity sins, everyone suffers,
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and ultimately everyone faces physical death.
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And just think about how pervasive it is.
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Sin hasn't just like, lightly touched the world.
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It's gotten into everything. It has, as the sources say,
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deformed, affected, infected, everything.
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We see the results all around us, don't we?
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Yeah, definitely. In creation itself, in our
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relationships, certainly in our own bodies, our minds, This,
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this corruption is the source of all the different kinds of
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suffering we see. You know, sickness, emotional
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pain, disasters, broken relationships, and yeah,
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finally, physical death. That's why we need hospitals,
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why we grieve. It all points back to sin
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disrupting God's original good creation.
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That's a really helpful clarification, seeing it as this
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pervasive condition stemming from sin, rather than trying to
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draw a straight line for every instance of pain.
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But there's often that misunderstanding, isn't there?
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People assume OK, if sin causes suffering, then my suffering
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must be because of my specific sin.
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Could you unpack what this connection does not mean?
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Absolutely. That's a critical distinction to
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make, and the sources are quite careful here.
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Saying sin is the root of suffering doesn't mean we draw a
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Direct Line between a particular sin you committed last Tuesday
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and the flu you have today, Right?
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That's not the idea. We're not supposed to be like
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Job's friends, you know, They saw Job suffering intensely and
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just assumed wrongly. Ah, he must have some secret
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sin. Bad theology.
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Very bad. They operated on this flawed
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idea that suffering is always direct, immediate payback for a
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specific wrong. The sources really warn against
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that kind of judgment. And it's not like the disciples
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in John Chapter 9 either. Remember, they saw the man born
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blind and asked Jesus, who sinned, this man or his parents,
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that he was born blind. Yeah, Jesus corrected them right
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away. He said it wasn't about either
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of their sins, but it happened so that the works of God might
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be displayed in him. So suffering can happen for many
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reasons within this fallen world, sometimes because of
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someone else's sin, sometimes for reasons God doesn't reveal,
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maybe even as a preventative thing.
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Preventative. Like how?
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Well, think about Paul's thorn in the flesh.
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In 2nd Corinthians 12, he says it was given to him, allowed by
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God to keep him from becoming conceited because of all the
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amazing revelations he'd received.
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OK, so not punishment for something he did, but to keep
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him humble. Exactly.
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So the big picture is sin introduced suffering and death
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into the world generally. That's the overarching doctrine.
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It explains the universal reality of pain for humanity.
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It's not a formula for diagnosing the specific cause of
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every individual trial. That's a much more compassionate
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and frankly, biblical way to understand it.
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That distinction is so useful, it helps us hold on to the truth
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about sins impact without becoming accused.
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Now, if sin is the root cause, how does the picture of the new
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creation in Revelation sort of underline that truth?
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Ah yes, Revelation 21 and 22, that vision of the new heavens
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and new earth gives us, you could say, the ultimate proof.
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Think about it. In that future perfect state,
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God will have completely dealt with sin.
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It's gone, eradicated sin from our experience as the sources
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put it, utterly removed for believers.
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And what happens when sin is gone?
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The Bible is crystal clear. There will be no more death, no
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more pain, no more tears and no more crying, no more need for
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surgeries. It's a direct consequence.
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The absence of sin means the absence of suffering and death.
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It's cause and effect. It shows us plainly Sin is the
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problem. Remove sin, remove suffering.
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And what that means for us right now is that until we get to that
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glorified state in the new heavens and new earth, suffering
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is just going to be part of life in this fallen world.
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We're in that already but not yet phase, aren't we?
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The Kingdom is here, but sins effects linger.
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So the goal isn't to somehow dodge all suffering.
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That's impossible now. The real task is learning how
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to, as the sources say, suffer well, how to go through it
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biblically in a way that honors God and helps us grow.
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OK, so shifting from the why of suffering to God's response, He
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doesn't just leave us there in the pain, does he?
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The sources talk about His comfort.
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What is God's nature when it comes to comforting His people?
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Well, the Scriptures paint a really consistent picture here.
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God is by his very nature the Father of mercies, and God all
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comfort. That's not just something he
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does, it's who he is. The source of it all?
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Exactly. Comfort originates in him.
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It flows from his character. And the sources point out, he
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comforts us in all of our afflictions.
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Notice that word all It's not just comfort for the big
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tragedies, but all afflictions. It shows his active presence,
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his involvement. He's right there with believers,
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offering solace, strength, no matter what kind of trial
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they're facing. That's incredibly reassuring.
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All afflictions. It really is.
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Think of the range that covers deep grief, physical agony,
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relational betrayal, those nagging anxieties, everything.
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In every single instance, God offers himself as the comforter.
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And this isn't like human comfort, which can be limited
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or, you know, sometimes miss the mark.
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This is divine comfort. It's infinite, perfectly suited
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to whatever we need. Because he's sovereign over the
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affliction itself, His comfort is always available, always
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effective for those who turn to Him.
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So God provides this amazing comfort, but it sounds like
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there's more to it than just making us feel better in the
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moment. Is there a bigger purpose behind
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why He comforts us? What does Second Corinthians one
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tell us? You've got it.
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There's a definite purpose that looks outward, beyond just our
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own relief. 2nd Corinthians 1 versus 3 and 4 spells it out
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very clearly. God comforts us so that we may
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be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the
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comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
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OK, so there's a ripple effect. Exactly.
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It's a logical flow. Really beautiful when you think
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about it. Experiencing God's comfort
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personally isn't the final stuff, it's actually
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preparation. God uses our experience of being
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comforted to equip us to make us ready to minister effectively to
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others who are going through their own hard times.
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It's like God fills us up with His comfort when we're hurting,
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but that comfort isn't just meant to sit there, it's meant
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to overflow to others. The more we personally
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experience His specific comfort in our trial.
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The better we can relate to others and theirs.
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Precisely, We develop an empathy, a capacity to connect
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that goes beyond just saying the right words.
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It becomes a ministry fueled by shared experience and God's own
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grace working through us. It creates this wonderful chain
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of comfort passing through God's people that makes so much sense.
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Our struggles aren't wasted. They become resources for
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ministry. So practically speaking, how
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does this play out? How does being comforted by God
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actually make us better at comforting others?
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Well, the practical result is quite direct.
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Often the people who have received the most divine comfort
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themselves become the best comforters.
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There's a real connection there. How you respond to and receive
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God's help in your own suffering directly shapes your ability to
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offer genuine God-given comfort later on.
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Think about it this way. If someone hasn't learned to
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rely on God through, say, the smaller daily frustrations,
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maybe a cancelled plan, lost wallet, things that irritate us,
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how equipped will they really be to sit with someone who's just
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gotten a terrible diagnosis or someone grieving a deep loss?
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The smaller trials are, in a way, training ground.
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Right. Building that capacity, Yes.
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Our experience of God's comfort teaches us empathy in a way head
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knowledge never can. It builds up a reservoir of His
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grace, His patience, His perspective within us that we
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can then draw on when we walk alongside others.
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And this applies to everything, doesn't it?
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From those little daily tests of patience right up to the most
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shattering news or losses that feel like they could break us,
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God uses every bit of our own journey through difficulty to
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prepare us to be channels of His comfort to others.
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That's a really powerful way to look at it.
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Suffering as a school of comfort.
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OK, let's pivot slightly. We know suffering is real and
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God comforts us in it, but the sources also suggest God is
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actively doing something purposeful through our suffering
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in terms of our own spiritual lives.
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Right. Absolutely.
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This is where we see God's goodness and His sovereignty
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working together in our hardest times.
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The ultimate goal, the overarching purpose for
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everything that happens in a Christian's life.
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And that includes all the tough stuff, the pain, the losses, the
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illnesses, the heartaches, all of it.
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The purpose is for God to shape us, to conform us into the
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likeness of His Son, Jesus Christ.
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Sanctification. That's the biblical term
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sanctification. It's the process of being made
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holy, being perfected. And incredibly, God uses even
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our suffering as a key instrument in that process.
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This isn't just abstract theology, it's deeply practical.
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When we go through pain as believers, it's not meaningless.
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It's not random. It's a tool in the hands of our
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loving Father who is working everything for our good.
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And that good is primarily defined as becoming more like
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Jesus. It shifts how we see suffering
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entirely. OK, suffering is a tool for
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making us holy. Can you explain a bit more how
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that works? How does it help us share in
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God's holiness as Hebrews talks about?
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Yes, Hebrews 12 is really key here.
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It tells us directly that God disciplines us, and that
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discipline often feels like suffering precisely because he
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wants us to share in His Holiness.
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It says the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every
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son whom he receives. So experiencing God's
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discipline, even when it's hard, isn't a sign He's angry or
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pushing us away. It's the opposite, really.
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Exactly, it's evidence of his fatherly love.
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Just like a good parent corrects a child for their long term
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well-being, our Heavenly Father does the same for our spiritual
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health and growth. This discipline, this suffering,
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acts like a refining fire. It helps burn away the
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impurities, the sin in our lives and shapes us to reflect God's
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own holy character more clearly. When we face difficulties, it
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often forces us to examine ourselves to turn from sin and
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to depend more fully on God, drawing us closer to His purity.
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It's an invitation to participate more deeply in His
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Holiness. And it also spurs spiritual
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growth and obedience. How does suffering achieve that?
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It certainly does. Suffering can be a very
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effective, if unwelcome, teacher.
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Think about Psalm 119, verse 71. The psalmist says something
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quite startling. It is good for me that I was
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afflicted. Good.
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Why? That I might learn your
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statutes. The affliction, the suffering,
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drove him to God's Word, leading to deeper understanding and
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obedience. It helps make us, as the sources
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say, more like you in the sanctifying process.
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It aligns our will more closely with gods.
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And then you have James chapter 1, verses 2 to 4.
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It says that facing trials produces steadfastness,
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perseverance, endurance. And when that steadfastness is
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allowed to complete its work, James says, it helps us become
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perfectly complete, lacking in nothing.
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So suffering isn't just about learning facts.
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It's about character building. It develops spiritual muscle,
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patience, a resilience that you just don't typically get when
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everything is easy. It matures us, makes us less
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easily shaken, because our hope gets anchored in God, not our
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circumstances. That sounds like a vital
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process, even if it's difficult now.
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You also mentioned pain has a way of clarifying our
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priorities. How does that work?
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It seems like suffering cuts through a lot of the clutter in
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life. It really does.
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Pain can be like the clarifying lens.
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When life is comfortable, it's so easy to get wrapped up in
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things that don't ultimately matter.
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Isn't it? For sure.
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We can chase careers, money, status, even good things like
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relationships, but make them ultimate things.
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We build our little kingdoms here, but suffering it often
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shakes that foundation. It strips away the superficial
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stuff. You know, imagine someone who's
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poured everything into their career, then suddenly a serious
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health issue hits or a major loss.
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In that moment, the promotions, the bank account, they tend to
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fade in significance, don't they?
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Yeah, priorities shift fast. They do what becomes central.
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Often it's family, faith, peace with God, eternal things.
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Suffering helps us loosen our grip on this world.
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It helps us, as the sources put it, take our mind off of this
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world, take our treasures out of this world, and look to Christ,
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recognizing where true, lasting value is found.
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That's a huge part of sanctification.
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And underpinning all of this is the idea that it's a purposeful
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act by a God who is in complete control.
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How does trusting in His sovereignty actually bring peace
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or even joy when you're hurting? That sounds contradictory to
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many. It does seem counterintuitive,
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doesn't it? But finding peace, even joy in
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suffering comes from deeply believing that God is utterly in
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control of this trial. It's not out of control, it's
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under His control. It means accepting that this
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hardship isn't random. It's not just bad luck.
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It is in some way coming from Him, allowed by him, ordained by
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him for a specific good reason. Remember Romans 8.28.
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All things work together for good.
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For those who love, God called according to His purpose, and
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the ultimate good Paul defines right after that is being
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conformed to the image of his Son.
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Believing this rescues us from despair.
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It means the pain isn't pointless.
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It's orchestrated by a sovereign God who sits on his throne and
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is doing everything for a purpose and that purpose to make
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me like Jesus. If you believe suffering is just
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random or only from Satan, where's the hope in that?
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There's no peace there. Hope comes from knowing that the
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God who loves us perfectly is working even this, this painful
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thing for our ultimate spiracle benefit that brings a deep
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quietness even when the storm is raging.
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It's resting in his wisdom. That's a profound source of
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peace. But you mentioned earlier that
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this outcome, becoming more like Christ through suffering isn't
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automatic. It doesn't just happen to us,
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right? What's the believer's role?
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Yes, that's absolutely vital. The sources stress this.
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Sanctification through pain is not automatic.
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It's a mistake to think just going through something hard
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will magically make you holier it.
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Can make people bitter. It certainly can.
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We see it all the time. Without a biblical response,
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people can become bitter and frustrated with God because of
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their suffering. They might pull away, get angry,
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grow cynical. Suffering doesn't automatically
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produce godliness. Instead, believers need to
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actively engage with God in their suffering.
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And the primary way to do that? Prayer.
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We need to pray asking God to utilize the pain to drive them
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to the Word of God. We need His truth to interpret
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our experience and then depending on the Holy Spirit,
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pray that we might be transformed into His image.
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It requires this act of participation, praying, seeking
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God in Scripture, relying on the Spirit.
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That's how suffering fulfills its God intended sanctifying
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purpose. It's a partnership.
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OK, that makes it very practical.
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Our response matters hugely and you highlighted prayer as the
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main biblical way to respond. Well, the sources actually list
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specific things we should pray for when suffering.
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Can we walk through those? It seems incredibly helpful for
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listeners. Yes, definitely prayer is the
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key response. The sources outline 7 specific
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types of prayer requests that are really beneficial for
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Christians going through trials. These aren't just good ideas,
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they're rooted in scripture. First, pray for understanding.
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It's OK, even good, to start by asking God.
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Please help me understand why this is happening.
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It's an honest cry. Now God might not give you a
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detailed blueprint explaining everything, but this prayer
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opens the door to important self examination.
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It prompts us to ask, is this perhaps God's disciplining hand
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for some sin? In my life we talked about
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Hebrews 12. God disciplines His children for
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holiness, and 1st Corinthians 11 shows a case where specific sin
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led to sickness and death in the church there.
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So it could be corrective. It could be, or as we also
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mentioned, it might be preventative, like Paul Storn,
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designed to keep us from future sin or pride.
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If through prayer and searching the word unconfessed sin is
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revealed as the issue, then confessing it, repenting,
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turning from it, James 5 suggests this can sometimes lead
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to restoration, the removal of the discipline.
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So praying for understanding helps us discern if discipline
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is involved and if it is, to actually be thankful for it as
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proof of God's love and His work in making us holy.
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Second, pray for trust in God's sovereign will.
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This is about actively choosing to believe deep down that God is
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in control of this trial, that it's not meaningless chaos, but
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coming from Him in the sense that he's allowing it and
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overseeing it. Real peace, real joy and
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suffering flows from believing that the God who loves me is
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working it for my good. And again, that good is
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primarily making us like Jesus. Believing it even when you can't
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see how. Especially then rejecting God's
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purposeful hands, saying it's all just Satan or bad luck that
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offers no hope, no peace. Ultimately, hope is found in His
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purpose, purposeful control, his loving orchestration even of
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painful things. That's where true rest lies.
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Trusting his hand is active? OK, that's foundational.
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What's the third prayer request? 3rd, we need to pray for
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holiness, for sanctification. We've established that the main
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point of suffering for a believer is to make us more like
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Christ. But since it's not automatic, we
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have to pray for it to happen. We pray.
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Lord, please use this pain. Don't let it be wasted.
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Use it to refine me. So actively asking God to use
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the suffering for that purpose. Yes, praying that God would
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utilize the pain to drive us to the Word of God, and then
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praying that by the power of the Spirit of God, we might become
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transformed into His image. This prayer aligns our hearts
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with God's purpose for the trial.
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It helps ensure the suffering actually produces the holiness
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it's intended to rather than bitterness or frustration.
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It's asking God to fulfill His refining work in US.
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Fourth, and this one can feel really challenging, we're told
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to pray for joy and rejoicing. James 1.2 says count it all joy
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when you meet trials of various kinds.
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Count it all joy. That sounds almost impossible
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sometimes. It does, and we need to be clear
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it's not joy in the pain itself. Nobody enjoys agony.
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The joy James talks about is rejoicing in what the pain is
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producing. It's joy rooted in the outcome,
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knowing that this trial under God's hand is working to make
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you more like Jesus, more perfect and complete.
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It's joy in the process and the purpose.
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So focusing on the result, not the feeling of the moment.
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Exactly, and because our natural reaction is usually complaining
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or wishing it away, we have to pray for this joy.
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We can't manufacture it. This joy comes from believing
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James 1.17 that every good gift and every perfect gift is from
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above. If that's true, then even
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suffering allowed by our good Father must somehow be a good
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gift intended for our growth. Praying for joy helps us grasp
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and live in that perspective. That requires a huge shift in
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perspective, seeing even hard things as gifts for growth.
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OK, what's the 5th prayer? It's about knowing God better.
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Yes. Fifth, pray for an increasing
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knowledge of God in the midst of suffering.
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We should pray. God, show me your glory in this.
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It seems counterintuitive, maybe because suffering can make God
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feel distant. But trials can actually give us
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unique insights into his character.
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Through hardship, we might see His mercy, His grace, His
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justice, even his hatred of sin in sharper focus.
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We might experience His sovereignty or faithfulness in
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ways we never would in comfort. So suffering can actually deepen
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our understanding of who God is. Absolutely, and this deeper
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knowledge fuels genuine worship. As the sources note, our worship
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can only rise as high as our knowledge of God goes deep.
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Look at Paul in Philippians 3. His desire wasn't just to know
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about Christ, but to know Christ and may share his sufferings,
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becoming like him in his death. He saw suffering as a path to
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knowing Christ more intimately. Seeing God work at our suffering
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deepens our adoration for Him. 6th And this is so vital,
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especially in prolonged suffering.
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Pray for hope. When pain goes on and on, maybe
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with a chronic illness or a situation with no end insight,
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it's easy to lose hope, to fall into despair.
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Yeah, that seems like a huge danger.
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It is so we need to pray for hope.
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Prayer helps us lift my eyes up to heaven.
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It helps us use this suffering to hold the things of this earth
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with a less strong grip. To value the eternal, to value
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heaven. Suffering starkly reveals how
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temporary everything here is. It forces us to ask where our
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real hope lies. And the answer isn't in this
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life changing. Not ultimately prayer for hope
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helps us internalize Romans 8.1 hate.
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The sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing
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with the glory that is to be revealed in US.
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Our ultimate hope isn't necessarily that the pain stops
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now, but in the guaranteed glorious, pain free future with
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God. That eternal perspective anchors
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us when the present storms are raging.
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It reminds us this is temporary, glorious, forever.
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That focus on eternity is so crucial.
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OK, and the 7th prayer, it's about praying for healing.
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How does that fit in? Yes, 7th we should pray for
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healing. It's perfectly OK, even
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biblical, to ask God to help restore our health.
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It's a natural desire. The key, though, is the purpose
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behind the prayer. We should desire health
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primarily so we can better serve Him, be more useful for His
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Kingdom, not just for our own comfort.
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Now, how God heals today, well believers might differ slightly.
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The sources lean towards cessationism regarding
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miraculous sign gifts, but strongly affirm praying for
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providential healing. God working through medicine,
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the body's natural processes, or even direct intervention and
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answer to prayer as seen in James five or three John 1.2.
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So we absolutely should pray for physical restoration.
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But with a condition right submission.
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Always. This is critical.
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Every prayer for healing or for relief from any suffering must
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be offered with complete submission to God's will.
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We follow Jesus example in Gethsemane.
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Not my will, but yours be done. That's the ultimate trust.
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It is if God in His wisdom decides the suffering should
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continue, perhaps for deeper sanctification or some other
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purpose we don't see. The trusting believer prays to
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embrace that as well, to even rejoice in that as well.
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Because I trust you. The ultimate prayer underlying
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all others is Lord, do whatever it takes to make me like your
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Son. Conforming to Christ takes
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priority over personal comfort. If pain is the tool God chooses,
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we pray for grace to endure it faithfully, trusting His good
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purpose. Well, that's a comprehensive and
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challenging framework for praying through suffering.
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It really shifts the focus from just wanting the pain to stop to
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wanting God's purposes to be fulfilled.
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So just to recap this deep dive we've seen suffering originates
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from sins entry into the world, that God provides comfort with
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the purpose of equipping us to comfort others, and that He uses
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suffering sovereignly to make us more like Christ.
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And the key response is active biblical prayer, praying for
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understanding, trust, holiness, joy, knowing God better, hope,
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and yes, healing. But all submitted to His will
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and His ultimate goal of conforming us to His Son.
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That sums it up well, and maybe a final thought to leave
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listeners with something provocative perhaps.
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How does our response to the small daily discomforts, the
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traffic jam, the annoying e-mail, the minor inconvenience,
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how does that daily response actually prepare us, or maybe
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hinder us from suffering? Well, when the really big trials
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come our way, Something to think about.
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That's a great question to reflect on.
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Thank you for joining us for this deep dive into God's truth
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about suffering and prayer. We hope this has given you solid
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ground to stand on and practical ways to approach difficulties in
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your own life. Remember to lean on your church
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community, too. We bear these burdens together.
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Until next time, keep seeking truth.