Latest / The Scene Projects / Kyle Asperger on Creativity, AI in Marketing, and Supporting Independent Creators

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Kyle Asperger on Creativity, AI in Marketing, and Supporting Independent Creators · The Scene Projects

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  This program is part of the Scene Projects podcast network.
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  Scene Project features interviews with independent musicians, comedians, and artists
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  from across the Midwest.
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  Become part of our community and support local art wherever you are.
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  Welcome in to another exciting episode of the scene.
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  I am your host Bubba Starts, and with me today is marketing coach and actor Kyle Asperger.
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  Welcome to the show.
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  Bubba, thanks for having me, brother.
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  Appreciate it.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I hope neither one of us blow away.
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  The winds outside in both areas that we are in are howling.
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  So if you hear something in the background, it's not a ghost.
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  It's just the wind today.
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  Could be the last time you see either of us.
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  So, you know, let's make it a good one.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You never know.
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  Right?
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  Well, before we get too far into everything that we're up to, I just kinda wanna give you
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  the floor and let you give us a little bit of your backstory.
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  Oh, I appreciate it, man.
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  I was, I'm originally from Chicago.
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  I was adopted, grew up in the Southwestern General Burbs, La Grange, if anybody's
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  actually, listening and is familiar with that area.
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  Lived in Columbus, Ohio for about seven years and now beautiful, gusty Denver, Colorado.
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  And so I have a marketing background.
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  I was an agency owner for nearly a decade, spun up a coaching practice, and probably the worst
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  time to become a coach and or do anything further with marketing because AI is stealing
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  everything.
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  And so then I figured, you know what?
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  I might as well just escape and, I don't know, try to play other people and whatnot.
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  And so that's where I've kinda spooled up a an acting career too.
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  So that seems to be one of the biggest focuses.
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  And, you know, these days, I'm I don't know.
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  I'm just a dude that rises to whatever the occasion is.
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  I'll say that.
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  You're gonna laugh.
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  My family actually founded the town of Romeoville.
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  Wow.
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  Well, I well, see have deep roots.
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  So I grew up in Crest Hill.
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  I know the Southwest Suburbs of Chicago area, very well.
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  Still have family out in Oswego and, some on the South Side of the city.
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  Man.
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  But, yeah.
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  Did not know I was speaking with royalty here.
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  Well, they were all moonshiners and working a still for Capone back in the day.
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  But Dude, that's awesome.
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  That's such that's so
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  I I have pictures of, like I guess, would be, like, my great great uncle with baby face
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  Nelson at the Romeo train station.
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  That oh my dude.
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  I that paints such a picture.
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  That's amazing.
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  Yeah.
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  Well and and we talked a little bit about my little, inside baseball on me, Kyle.
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  I, I did a couple years in prison for selling marijuana, and we were talking about my my
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  history with the city of Denver being somewhere where I frequented Yeah.
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  For for reasons in that.
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  But we're we're not here to talk about me and my history, but I I love the overlap and how
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  you're like, nobody's ever gonna know where this is.
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  And it's like, no.
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  Oops.
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  Pretty infinitely.
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  That's fabulous.
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  I love it.
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  Very cool, man.
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  Well yeah.
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  And and I I I wanna disagree with you that, I know AI is taking over the marketing side of
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  things.
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  You know, we use it a lot with our design elements and things that we do, but it takes a
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  special person and someone with that knowledge to really to really make it hit home.
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  And I think the more that we use these AI products for a lot of the design elements that
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  it's actually causing a rift between what is marketing at its heart, and that's a human
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  connection.
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  So can you talk about your history in marketing and and what it really means at the at the
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  heart of marketing, you know, what what it means to have that connection to sell to
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  another human being.
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  Well, to
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  the concept of selling is kinda what I think dampens the overall, like, reputation of
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  marketing because the the root core of majority conversation that I've had, you know, through
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  that decade of experience in, you know, delivering essentially the the product that is,
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  alright, marketing services rendered.
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  So majority people would come and the the the root disconnect that, Bubba, I think that
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  you're hinting at that you already operate said was communication.
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  And this is a human to human thing.
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  Even if it's business to business, regardless of b to b, b to c, it's still human on the
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  receiving end.
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  And the disconnect simply being that, alright, these business entities or individuals were
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  having problems with figuring out how to best communicate to whatever that audience is that
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  they were aiming for.
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  Because that audience, if they're experts in some manner, then they're going to wanna see
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  certain verbiage that says, okay.
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  Well, we cater to the expert.
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  If they are simply looking for a product or maybe don't even know that there is a problem
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  that they have that your product is solving for, then you need to be able to communicate
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  that in a way that they will digest it.
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  And there's no one singular answer because all kinds of different people, we have a gazillion
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  different platforms these days and all kinds of marketing tactics.
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  So it's like the root is human to human.
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  So I'm happy that you disagree.
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  A lot of the AI, you know, undertone the connotation that I'm sort of suggesting is
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  there is so much within the world of marketing that is automated now that's done with just AI
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  and all that stuff.
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  A lot of the like, what was previously really enjoyable has kind of been taken over.
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  But I am kind of interested because if alright.
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  So if we get to this weird dystopic future where, like, AI takes over everything, I don't
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  know what that looks like.
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  I don't know if we go back to a barter system.
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  I don't know if all of a sudden humans are like, you know, I really do miss being sold to
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  by other humans as opposed to robots pretending to be humans.
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  So I don't know if there's gonna be this, like, backlash or just, like, a, you know, slap
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  across the face, like, reminder of, like, we all used to do this thing called humanity or
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  whatever.
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  Like, why not go back to it even though we fail, even though we're far less efficient?
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  I don't know.
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  You know, I feel like there will be, like, a human uprising at some point.
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  I think there has to be, right, in some ways.
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  And, you know, I come from the music world.
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  I'm a songwriter, and most of our show is focused on independent songwriters.
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  I've expanded that to creators, other podcasters, or actors, or comedians, or
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  whatever just because I'm interested in conversations with humans.
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  Right?
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  And creative humans at that.
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  And what could be more creative than learning how to communicate a vision or a product or a
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  service to another human being.
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  And and I've always considered myself a bit of a marketer because I've always been marketing a
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  service that really nobody needs.
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  Right?
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  I've been selling my music, and and what's so good about my music compared to someone else's
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  music.
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  Right?
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  And now in the podcasting world, much of the same.
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  We have services that we offer to other creators as well who you know, and they're all
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  at a very low price point because we understand the afflictions of the creator and especially
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  in a world that in an in an industry, especially, that has completely sucked the
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  living out of this industry.
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  The industry has cannibalized itself to the point of now you have AI artists that are
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  topping the billboard charts to the point that now YouTube is separating from the billboard
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  charts and no longer sending them data, and iHeart is getting swallowed up by Netflix and
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  all of these.
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  So the entire industry right now is just eating itself because there's no one left to eat.
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  You have devalued the individual creator to the point that, we are all out here going, how the
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  hell are we gonna make a living doing the thing that we love, but still living in a world that
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  needs our creative input?
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  And that to me is what I think we're at a tipping point now that the creators are going
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  to become valuable again and even more valuable than they were before for that exact reason.
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  And we are one EMP away from the whole thing going tits up anyway.
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  So let's just be honest.
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  Right?
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  I hope that's the case.
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  I because I have been, like, the world of creative.
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  I my degree is in graphic design.
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  I like, I I'm no different.
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  I'm musically challenged in every sense of the word, so I'm not claiming that by any means.
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  But creativity, the arts, you know, theater, then, you know, that film, all that good stuff.
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  Like, that's where I, you know, grew up.
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  That's that was my training ground.
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  And it you're smack dab on the money.
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  You know, the biggest are eating everybody.
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  The it's the competition.
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  You know, if you can't beat them, buy them.
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  Just suck them in.
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  But that does leave the little guy or girl or thing, depending on whatever you wanna be.
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  And I I think if we can I I do believe that, weirdly enough, this whole AI push, this let's
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  remove the humanity?
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  The moment that you start saying no to something, that's when people will say yes.
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  And I'm I don't know if it when it'll happen, if it does, how, or what, but we can all just
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  kinda stay tuned and wait and see.
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  Well and it may be that, you know, something you mentioned, do we all go back to the barter
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  system?
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  Maybe it's just the point where all of the creatives band together on our own and say,
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  look.
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  We're just gonna create for ourselves and for the people truly and the industries and the
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  powers that be can have that, and we're gonna find way to build our own communities and and
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  to to to make a way, to forge a path.
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  And so much of that mentality is what I've brought to this podcast and that we're not
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  trying to work with the upper echelon of artists and using somebody else's name to make
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  us big.
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  In fact, we're reaching down in many ways to artists that are just starting out or to people
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  that don't have a following at all or, you know, very small following similar to
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  ourselves.
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  And even though I have, you know, a a title with the content creator of the year that I'm
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  not seeking that title and using that to forge a path upwards.
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  I'm using it to build a platform in which to pull all of the people below me up onto so that
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  we can build something greater.
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  So maybe it's guys like us getting together, Kyle, putting our heads together to find a way
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  to use our powers in unison to build something better that makes more sense for the future of
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  humanity and not trying to necessarily, make what is out here now work.
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  I think the only way forward at this point is with an entire new paradigm and not trying to
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  make something that is crippling and really on its last legs work.
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  The music industry, a lot and in a lot of cases, the film industry are completely dead.
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  They are devoid of a lot of the talent that has gone there because it continues to cannibalize
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  itself.
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  And it's unfortunate, but the age of the independent creator is upon us.
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  And it's how do we build platforms together to, to use those to promote each other and our
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  things.
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  And I think you're seeing that with with the advent of the fast streaming networks.
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  And, I mean, really, anyone with enough money can build their own channel and get it onto
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  Roku and Apple TV things.
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  It's Sure.
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  How do we band together to make those channels work instead of worrying I mean, I was gonna
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  say use MTV as as you could tell how old I am.
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  Right?
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  Where, like, to me, that was still the upper echelon of it, but there just isn't those
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  things anymore.
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  Back
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  in the day, though, I you know, I'm 33.
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  I don't I'm not trying to age anybody here.
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  Yeah.
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  And I'm
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  39.
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  So still in, you know, my my late thirties now.
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  But
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  We're both millennials.
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  And so, like, MTV held more of a station in our lives because, like, back I'd say, like, I
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  don't remember when MTV got, you know, to the, like, the new age, but, like, they used to
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  feature real, you know, music.
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  And the true like, because alright.
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  I think about my dad who's a a jazzophile to the core.
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  Like, the sleepiest stuff is just like yeah.
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  He's just
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  jamming out and everybody else is like
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  oh, he's still going.
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  Okay.
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  Alright.
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  So he's he's teetering on 70, slightly older than both of us here.
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  And this is to say, like, alright.
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  I was in New York with him, and we're, like, we're talking about music.
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  And I couldn't explain to him, not that I even tried because I simply didn't know.
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  It's just we have this individualized sort of approach, which is, I think, the the whole of
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  what you and I are touching on here, Bubba.
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  It's like, we have these platforms that glorify the individual creator, and so we can build
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  these hyper niche followings.
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  We can some of us build broader followings if we want or are able to.
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  I don't know.
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  But because of that, the reflection here is that, like, music from my dad's era, that was,
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  like, that was music with a capital m.
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  That changed lives.
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  That moved cultures in certain directions, and the music nowadays does not.
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  I'm not a huge music head, but that's the one thing I know is that we are not putting up
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  music the same way.
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  It is not affecting society, the same way it used to.
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  And I think it's in part because the way that people had to digest, like, music back then, if
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  I'm over intellectualizing, it's like, alright.
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  They'd have to go to a concert or go to a bar where they would be spinning these different
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  records where as a whole, the music needs to be heard, digested, absorbed, and there becomes
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  this whole kinda, like, group think, inevitably, everybody's on the same page at
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  least.
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  There's just less of that.
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  It's more of an individual experience these days.
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  So musicians are maybe putting out extraordinary stuff, but because it's such an
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  individualist listening experience, there isn't this, like, collective whole unless you go to a
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  concert or, you know, something like that or, you know, a music festival, whatever.
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  So I don't know if there's even really much of a message.
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  It's just to say that the interconnectivity has changed a lot of how we digest material.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, my my first real concrete music memories are like the grunge era.
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  And and really at the tail end of the grunge area era, right, when the chili peppers were
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  really starting to get big.
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  I mean, my first real vivid music memory besides being, you know, three or four years
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  old at a Grate ful Dead concert.
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  My parents were kinda hippies, late generation hippies.
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  Right?
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  They're Gen xers.
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  But Yeah.
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  Was hearing under the bridge for the first time on the radio.
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  Mhmm.
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  Mhmm.
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  And that first guitar, like, hitting, and I get goosebumps every time that I think about it.
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  But I can remember the rain falling on our Ford Aerostar and being on the way to the river and
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  the Des Plaines River, right, going down to see my grandpa who had a boat down there.
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  This is still when we lived in the area before we moved to South Dakota.
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  And you don't have that anymore because you don't have these, you know, radio and I know
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  that radio is still big, and and it is still the main way that a lot of people but it's also
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  owned by conglomerates now.
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  Right?
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  Whether it is, you know, iHeartRadio or it's one of the other ones and then the names
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  evading me right now, it doesn't matter.
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  Eventually, it's all gonna be one company.
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  Right?
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  It's only a matter of time before it all gets swallowed up, and it's all just the same thing.
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  And you don't necessarily have DJs anymore.
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  Most of that is automated these days.
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  You don't have any personalities.
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  And I think this kinda ties back to the the marketing things that we're talking about as
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  well as that it because you everyone is using the same AI, everyone's marketing ends up
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  looking exactly the same as well.
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  Right?
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  I see the same flyer now 400 times as I'm scrolling, but most of the people that I follow
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  online are independent artists as you could imagine.
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  Yeah.
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  And I'm just seeing them all use essentially the same flyer.
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  And a lot of them don't know it because we're all stuck inside of such a small bubble that
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  we've created for ourselves that there's very few people like me that are reaching out.
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  I've interviewed over 500 artists in the last year.
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  I'm out there.
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  I I'm, you know, working a little bit in Nashville now and around in other areas where
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  I'm actually connecting with a lot of those people and doing everything that I can to try
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  and bring that out and and give them the exposure to another crowd, but nobody's
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  watching me.
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  Right?
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  Like, who am I?
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  I'm not Bobby Bones.
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  And if you listen to the Bobby Bones show now, which is played on probably a thousand stations
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  coast to coast, it's the same 20 songs now with maybe a few additions that it was before
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  because now Billboard is legacy to where the same songs can sit on there for years.
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  It's not a hot rotation of these things.
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  So the upper echelon of artists just sit there in place until they release a new song.
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  So you're not getting a refresh on there.
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  I heard someone on Instagram yesterday, DeMizzo, who I follow regularly now because
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  that's kinda where I'm getting my music industry news.
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  And it used to be that the billboard charts were like a ride at the amusement park.
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  Right?
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  It was like getting on a roller coaster that everybody was in line.
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  And eventually, you would kinda get your turn in line, and everyone may get a chance to be up
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  at the top, and it would rotate.
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  Now it's just the same VIPs on rotation in that world.
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  And I think it's kinda been that way for a few years.
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  You know?
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  And, you know, god bless the Luke Combs and the Taylor Swifts of the world that are able to go
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  out there and they can sell out stadiums, but that's a small handful of people, and we're not
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  getting a rotating cast of characters up there any longer.
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  And, it's leaving a lot of people out in the cold that had, you know, maybe maybe a little
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  bit delusional dreams, right, of being a rock star, but, there there still should be room for
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  people to carve out a living whether that's in the music or the marketing fields.
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  And the really, the only way I think we get there is if we band together.
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  And it's why we have, you know, we have an academy at the scene projects that is a a group
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  and not just one coach, but of many coaches.
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  And maybe one day, we'll add a marketing coach to that as well and and to have people because
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  that's one thing that, especially artists, really need help with that gets underserved.
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  They're so busy creating that a lot of them forget that, well, you also need to know how to
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  bring yourself to the market with marketing to be able to have someone that may one day pay
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  you for your services.
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  Mhmm.
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  I agree, man.
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  I we all like, for the small fish, I'd I'll think about it like this.
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  It's an interesting metaphor.
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  I went scuba diving in Costa Rica some number of years back, I think back in, like, 2021.
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  On the whole, saw, you know, a huge amount of, like, biodiversity, you know, floating around.
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  But the most stunning thing, it was a school of fish that I was surrounded 360 degrees by.
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  They were, like, gray fish.
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  The fish themselves weren't terribly interesting.
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  But when you think about it from the holistic perspective being completely surrounded by
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  them, easily one of the most impactful experiences in my life.
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  So that is just to say the power of the whole shan't be discredited even when it comes down
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  to the literal small fish.
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  Well and I think because you are no longer an observer of that, but you were immersed in the
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  experience, You were fully surrounded by it visually.
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  And if you could hear them, you know, hearing that auditory of all these fish swimming in
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  unison and and altogether, solo at the same time.
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  Right?
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  Each moving as an individual, but part of something much greater.
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  I think that's exactly what we're talking about and what I'm striving to create.
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  Kyle, I I think you just kinda nailed it, you you were able to bring out a visual.
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  And that's where a a really good marketer can do a great job doing something that, an
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  auditory person like me who can create music and write songs, but, god, I would screw up a
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  stick figure, Kyle.
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  Hey.
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  No judgment.
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  It it took me years to get my mom to just a reasonable stick figure level.
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  So I'd I'd I've I'd I'd stopped all of those classes a long time ago.
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  I'll put it like that.
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  That said, I don't think anybody's getting by drawing stick figures unless they're, the
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  animations where they're, like, beating the crap out of each other.
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  Maybe there's a market there.
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  But but the honest answer, I got away from drawing.
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  I just decided, you know what?
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  I like pretending I'm other people.
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  What am I doing?
• 22:29
  I'm playing pretend.
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  I it's nothing different that I wasn't doing as a kid.
• 22:36
  So I you know, I'm a huge, huge supporter of innovation.
• 22:42
  But, you know, in these weird times where all all the all folks are inevitably going through,
• 22:47
  you know, alright.
• 22:48
  We're getting job loss left and right, and I'm not I'm not saying anything yay or nay.
• 22:56
  But in this time where a lot of people are having to reassess what they're doing, where
• 23:01
  their passions lie, whether or not to even endure the path of following one's passion,
• 23:09
  Sometimes you don't need to think as hard as, I guess, the root of my message is whatever it is
• 23:14
  that feeds the the child in you, your soul, call it what you want, sometimes that's a great
• 23:19
  avenue.
• 23:20
  Just go explore it.
• 23:23
  I think that's a great message to leave off with.
• 23:26
  Kyle, where can people find you online and, or in person if you got any, acting gigs coming
• 23:33
  up?
• 23:34
  Acting gigs, well, they take me all kinds of random places, so I would not suggest trying to
• 23:39
  find me on set.
• 23:40
  If you do, I might call the cops on you because that's kind of disturbing.
• 23:45
  Please don't do that.
• 23:50
  The I I say that with love and respect, but also, you know, don't stalk people.
• 23:56
  Stalk me online.
• 23:57
  Go you know, Kyle Asperger three zero one, follow me on Facebook, anything like that.
• 24:04
  Anarchy for a day is the marketing coaching practice.
• 24:07
  That's f o r a day.
• 24:11
  Yeah.
• 24:12
  I mean, you know, let's keep the conversation going.
• 24:14
  If you wanna reach out, drop me a line.
• 24:16
  Give me something that I can actually respond to.
• 24:18
  Don't hit me with just, a hi.
• 24:21
  I'm not gonna do anything with that.
• 24:26
  Awesome, Kyle.
• 24:27
  Well, yeah, hang out with me because I'd like to keep this conversation going as well, but
• 24:32
  we're gonna say goodbye to the audience.
• 24:34
  Thank you so much for giving me a little bit of your time today, and thank you for being part
• 24:38
  of the scene.
• 24:39
  It was a pleasure, man.
• 24:40
  Thanks for having me.