Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Your Hair is Your Identity

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Your Hair is Your Identity · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

0:02
Welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts where I, Paula Okonneh
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speak with fabulous women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
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These women are professionals and successful entrepreneurs, and they share
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with me a mission, which is to educate, to encourage, and to empower women globally.
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I occasionally have men as my guest, but 99.9% it's women Today, the title
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of our show is Hair and Your Identity.
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And my guest who will join me in a minute, is a board certified trichologist.
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She's a pharmacologist, she's an entrepreneur and the founder
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of Feso Hair Care Brand, which she's had for over 25 years.
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And with that, I want to introduce to you my guest Kuda Mupawose.
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Welcome Kuda, to Chatting with the Experts.
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It's an honor to be here.
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Thank you so much for saying yes, because I don't take it for granted.
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When these amazing women, you're one of them, and the men join the show.
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I'm honored to be here, so...
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Thank you.
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Really I do appreciate you having me.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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So , you said our hair is our identity.
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Yeah.
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Can you expand on that?
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I know that this is my hair for this week.
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Next week is gonna be something else.
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So, you know, hair is our identity.
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If we go back time in memorial, kings and queens, royalty, people used to
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wear their a certain hairstyles based on who they are, what they did, even
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outcast in the communities and even today actually it's funny I'm saying
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time in memorial, but today people are identified by how they look based
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on how their hair is looking today.
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And so that is hair is our identity.
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So regardless what we can say, some people now say, hair doesn't define me, but
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it actually does give you an identity.
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So that's where I took the title from
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. Uh-huh but I noticed you did pharmacology, you're a pharmacologist.
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How did you get into the hair business?
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I mean, that's so interesting to me.
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I know it's very relevant, but you got into the hair
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business for a reason, I'm sure.
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Hair has always been my hobby.
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As a little girl, I used to braid anything, even the grass, you know.
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Wow.
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So, after college I went back to Zimbabwe.
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I'm a product of Zimbabwe and South Africa.
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And there was only pharmaceutical companies that were in
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Zimbabwe, so I started working for a pharmaceutical company.
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Mm-hmm.
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But that time when I was in college, I was making more money doing hair.
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Wow.
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And now working for this pharmaceutical company, and even in quality control,
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I was earning less than hair.
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So the choice was very easy.
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I needed more money.
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So I turned my hobby into a business.
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So that's how I am in the hair.
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But later on, I never saw that those two industries will interdepend
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to each other until much later.
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But I did hair because it was my hobby.
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Wow.
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So you didn't see the interconnectivity between pharmacology and hair?
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No.
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At that time I didn't.
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And I, until one day I woke up and when I'm now doing hair, even when I started
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the hair products I never thought about it that way until much later.
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That's when I was like, oh, okay, looks like I'm back at school
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and everything became what it is.
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I started my product line mainly because I was losing clients.
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So I never started because I wanted to do a product line.
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So one day you have a client who is in your chair, but next
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month she has cut her hair.
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Why?
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Because her hair is falling or this.
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So I wanted to prevent that.
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So that's how I created it.
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And before you know it, I started giving it away as just product, as free samples.
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And so it became pinching my, you know, my pocket in one client
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because I, I didn't wanna do it anymore, but it was working for her.
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She says, oh, okay, I'll pay.
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And that's when voila, the whole business started.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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So you did not see, well first of all, a few minutes ago you said you didn't
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see the connection between pharmacology and the hair business and then.
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Of course you were making more money from hair.
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Yeah.
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So you continued doing that on the side and came up with a product that
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you didn't even see the worth in until when you wanted to quit because
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you didn't think it was probably, you didn't see the how much it was
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impacting the lives of your clients.
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No, I saw that, but I never paid attention to what I was really doing.
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Aah.
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So this client, when she would come to the salon for more,
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you know, could ask concoction, that's what they used to call it.
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Wow.
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And I didn't have it because it, I needed some oils.
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I needed to have somebody to go to the rural areas and collect the plant.
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So I didn't have the resources to do that.
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So, then she says, you know what, I'll pay you.
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And I actually asked her how much.
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She said it's $20.
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That became the start starting price of my product.
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I'm sure if she hadn't said $20, I probably would've
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started maybe a $10 or $5.
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I don't know.
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But that's how it started.
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Wow.
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Wow, wow, wow.
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Look at that.
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And so you mentioned that you'd have to pay someone to go into the rural area.
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So this, your business is organic, is based on the plant.
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Yes.
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Ah.
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So I have women that collects the plant.
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Unfortunately, it's not an every day, but it says now.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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So they would collect the plant for me, and then I saw it as a way
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of giving back to my community.
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And since then, that's what I've been doing.
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Okay.
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And the name of the plant is
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Feso.
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Oh, okay.
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Now there's the connection Feso.
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Okay.
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That's why your business is called Feso.
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Yeah.
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'cause I didn't have a name for this concoction, and I
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just said, oh, you know what?
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Considering that the main ingredient was Feso, I just named it Feso,
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and it caught on and yeah, so it's actually a name, it's a dialect name
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of one of the languages in Zimbabwe.
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Mm-hmm.
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So the same plant has different names based on the area where you are.
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Okay.
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So in South Africa it's the same, but some people call it maybe
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Inkunzane, in some parts of Zimbabwe.
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In South Africa, some call it Dinda.
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So all this are different dialects based on where you are, but it's the same plant.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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I'm gonna have to do some research to see even what it looks like, because
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Yes, it sounds like it has, you know, some, what's the word I'm looking for?
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But it sounds, it's natural.
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That's one.
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It's natural.
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And it has special, the ingredients that it is good for our hair at least.
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Yeah.
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So, initially I did not study the plant.
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Mm-hmm.
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I did this plant based on hearsay, so it started when my mom said I had
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gone back to see her in the rural areas and I had not brought shampoo.
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Mm-hmm.
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Because she knew I had a salon.
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So she was asking, why didn't you bring me shampoo?
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Do you want me to go back to old days where we used to go and get
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the Feso so I can wash my hair?
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So that triggered the conversation and then I was like, oh, bring it.
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Can I see it?
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And it was, thank God, it was during the season of Feso.
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And so I took a whole 50 kg bag to Harare where I was staying then.
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And I've tried to squeeze it and all that, but then it produces a slimy form.
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You know, and I wasn't that much interested because
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it was slimy and all that.
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So I left it until one, you know, like maybe three, four days later,
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one client kept on asking me, what should I use now for my hair?
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Mm-hmm.
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What should I use?
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And I thought, oh, let me take that.
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And I put it in the liquids, it wasn't so foaming anymore, and,
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but it was still had a draw.
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So I put it in and, then I guess the pharmacologist kicked in.
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I, it didn't really look appetizing, so I needed to put in oils and I would write
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down how much oils I've put and all that.
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And when she came back to me about three weeks later asking me, what did you do?
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I thought, oh my God, somebody is gonna sue me.
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Because remember, my education had been from America.
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Okay?
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And so I'm like, oh my God, what did I do?
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And when she came, finally I saw, oh, he hair was growing.
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So I went back and that's how the concoction started.
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But it was never intended.
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Later on, we then did some tests.
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We did lab test with a university in Zimbabwe, actually have a paper published.
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The product actually does work, and the plant has got so many properties, so
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I'm only just tipping on the surface.
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But it's actually a healing plant.
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Oh my word.
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As you were talking, I went online to look at it and I was thinking when
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you said it was slimy, I was thinking, okay, this sounds like aloe vera, but
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looking at it, it's not aloe vera.
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No, it's not.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yep.
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And you know, and you say it has healing properties.
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So many healing properties.
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Wow.
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Not just for hair, but for the whole body.
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Yeah.
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For the whole body.
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I can tell you now, I've got some teas for I've made tea out of it.
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So for menstrual cycle.
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Mm-hmm.
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If people have got issues with their hormonal, it goes, if people have got
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issues with gout, arthritis, so yeah.
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Wow.
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So I see, you know, now the collision or the connection between doing
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pharmacology because then you're able to look at the ingredients from
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a scientific point of view, combine it with your joy and your love for
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hair and come up with this product.
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Yeah.
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That's working.
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Yeah.
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That's what happened.
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Wow, that's so interesting.
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So at the back of you, I can see sometimes the camera focuses on hair loss and scalp.
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Yes.
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Clinic, facial, hair loss, and scalp clinic.
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So let's talk about the hair loss.
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How does that come into play now?
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Now you have this hair clinic, your focus is on healthy hair.
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Yeah.
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With a health, with a product that has you know, ingredients that
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help us and are healthy for us.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So talk a little bit about hair loss, because that's a big thing
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for us, for not just women, but because this is a women show.
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I tend to talk more of women, but for men too, you know, that are balding.
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Women, we too, are balding and then hormonal changes,
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you know, tell us about this.
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So remember I'll take you back to when I gave it to one person.
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One minute the next person comes, oh, it's not working for me.
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And the next to the other one, it's working.
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Mm-hmm.
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So, it actually made me want to understand why did I have those variations?
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Mm-hmm.
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So, which then I think the scientist person in me came into life and
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now I wanted to understand why is it reacting this way to this one?
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Why is it reacting this way to this one?
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And that brought me to trichology, to understand trichology.
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But trichology was in Africa, was a very limited subject.
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When you do hairdressing like, or cosmetology as they call it in America.
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It's almost like just a subject and then but it's a study of hair scalp
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diseases and hair loss and formulations.
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So I went on to the journey of trying to understand, why
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did I have these variations?
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That's how it led me into trichology.
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Mm-hmm.
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It led me to Institute of Trichology in the UK.
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That's when I discovered that they also had over a hundred years in
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trichology, and that was a shock for me.
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Wow.
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Some doctors didn't even know what trichology was.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so, but I am backed on the science now of hair.
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Mm-hmm.
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It brought me to where I am.
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So where I am now while I focus more on the healthy aspect of hair, but I actually
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also do work in trying to regenerate your hair follicles and growing people's hair.
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And I can tell you that I have had tremendous success and that's how I
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ended up turning my salons from being a salon, you know, to more of clinical.
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So my focus now is more on the growth of your hair.
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People with hair loss, how do I help them?
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Remember we're talking about hair is being your identity.
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How it does to people's psychology and all that.
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So that's where the birth of Feso Hair Clinics came in.
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So I do have a clinic in Harare.
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I do have a clinic in South Africa.
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And I have also a clinic that is in progress set up for the US.
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Wow.
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I'm listening and I'm intrigued at the story of the birth of
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this phenomenal hair clinic.
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So you have three clinics you said one in South Africa, one
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in Harare, and a budding one...
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In New York.
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In New York
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Upstate.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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So,
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because you're psychol... not psychologist.
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I keep saying psychologist.
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You're pharmacologist.
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Pharmacologist.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Is there, I mean, let's talk about the physiology of hair.
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Psychology of hair or the physio?
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Physiology of hair.
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Okay.
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I'm not sure I understand.
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Okay.
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So, when we look at hair, I mean, as you mentioned, my hair, I have a
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different type of hair than my daughter.
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Yeah.
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There are different hair types.
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Yeah.
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I'm sure because of your background, you look at the different hair types,
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you look at how, you know, you, I'm assuming from your conversation that
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you customize your formula to suit.
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Oh, okay.
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An individual.
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So here is the funny thing.
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Hair in every sense of the way, the scientific aspect hair from not what
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we are seeing, but hair downward.
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Mm-hmm.
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There's two kind of types.
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Or three maybe.
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But at the end of the day, they all come back to one thing, one bud.
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So the characteristics, the physiology of what happens to
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hair underneath is the same thing.
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So you find, because when I discovered that, that's how I am
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able and I was able to come up with a product that actually fits all.
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So initially it was just one product that was fitting everybody.
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However, what then changes is on the scalp when we come now to the scalp of each
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different individual, it now changes.
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Aah.
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'cause like take for example how your skin reacts.
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'cause hair is an extension of skin, but how your skin reacts like our people,
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how our scalp skin is and the white person's scalp skin and the Indian,
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the person's type of skin, it differs.
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Why?
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Based on how they produce oils that come from your scalp to your hair.
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So naturally we are supposed to lubricate our hair by ourselves naturally.
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Mm-hmm.
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But we have done so many things to our hair that you find that the scalp mantle,
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which is something that is on the scalp, cannot produce the oils that you want, or
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maybe the microbiome has been disturbed, so now you're not getting the results
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that you should naturally be getting.
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But does the product work for everybody?
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Yes, it does.
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However, because of those disturbances on our scalp and the different textures
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of our scalp, I had to go back in again and try and look for a product
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still with Feso, but different oils that would now help hydrate the scalp
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if say, I've been using relaxer and the relaxer has damaged my scalp skin,
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and so how do I heal my scalp skin?
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And so now, instead of just using one main product, which was the spray I
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found myself now looking for other products that would help the spray to
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help the scarring that is on the scalp.
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Wow.
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This is so interesting to me.
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Wow.
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And especially what's an eyeopener to me is you're saying all of us,
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irrespective of your race, our hair underneath the scalp is the same.
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It's how, when, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's when it comes to the
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scalp and our scalp oils, that makes a difference on how we maintain it at least.
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Yeah.
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So as it comes out, if you've got coily hair, so you'll find
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that your shaft is not straight.
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Mm-hmm.
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For, and that's the reason why you find that Indians have got too
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much sebum coming through because their shaft is very straight.
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Whereas ours, it's kind of, you know, it curves in until the hair comes
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out, but when we go to the bud way, it touches the blood vessels, the
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papillas, it's literally the same.
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Oh,
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gotcha.
19:41
Yeah.
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That's a topic for another day because that is so interesting.
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That is so interesting because we've always felt as people of African
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descent that our hair is, you know, so different from everybody
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else's hair in appearance at least.
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Yeah, in appearance it's definitely...
20:00
Yes.
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But when we come to where and how it's attached to the body or
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how it has been, God created it.
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We are all the same, but it just then differs on how it then looks.
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Got you.
20:15
Yeah.
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You know, the chemicals we've put in our hair, the straightness, and most of us,
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at least, lemme talk from myself and a lot of people I speak with, we always have
20:24
thought that it just affected our hair.
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But I'm hearing from you, not only does it affect hair, but it also
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affects the scalp on our heads.
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Are you ready for this?
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Tell me I am ready.
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So it just doesn't affect your scalp.
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It actually also changes your endocrine system.
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Mm-hmm.
20:51
Because on the scalp we have over a hundred thousand little holes.
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In those little holes, they go straight into our lymphatic drainage.
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So they go and so they get drained into the bloodstream and for whatever reason,
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it's attracted to the endocrine system, which then will change our hormonal.
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No wonder why you then have people with fibroids.
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Because we are constantly changing our endocrine system by all these relaxers.
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So you've got fibroids.
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Ask yourself, ever, ever relax my hair?
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And then you find that we have little girls that are puberty early.
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It's because you have put chemicals on your child and it goes and does disruptors
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into your endocrine system and before you know it, you've got different mechanism
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things happening to your hormonals.
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And now you've got five year olds going for periods.
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Mm-hmm.
22:02
So it matures the little girls early.
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For older women, it changes.
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You've got cysts.
22:09
You've got fibroids, and I mean, so many people now there's cancer.
22:14
I can't really say I've I haven't dealt in that for me to qualify and say, but I know
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for a fact that I've dealt with fibroids.
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I've tested it and I can prove it.
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So,
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that's one of the reasons.
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So when you talk about relaxers and scalp and hair, yeah, that's a so thing for me.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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I mean, we've kind of known that, but we haven't really known that.
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I think that's why this younger generation are going more into the
22:48
natural looks, you know, and you less chemicals, more of, you know, like even
22:54
the kinky looks they call it, and the cutting their hair and doing twists.
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And what's this other thing that I hear them talk about?
23:02
Locks.
23:03
Locks.
23:03
Yes.
23:03
Yeah.
23:05
Yeah.
23:05
So you find all those things are now happening.
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We are going back again to our topic, identity.
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Identity, yes.
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We are now accepting to be identified by how we are by our natural look.
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Yes.
23:22
So we go back to the, you know, identity.
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Wow.
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You've also touched on the fact that , yes.
23:29
Identity, but also the hidden dangers that we haven't been aware of for
23:34
years, you know, and that our hair is kind of like a window to our health.
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You know, we looked at our hair almost like separate from us and not thinking
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that, you know, anything that we put, I mean, our bodies are, our skin is
23:47
a organ, and anything you put on the skin is gonna be absorbed internally.
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So that applies to our scalp and anything we put on our scalps too.
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So, you know, what I always say to my clients is that when they
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say, oh, can you do a relaxer?
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And I'm trying not to bombard them with, you know, too much information, I ask
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them, okay I learned to do a relaxer.
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I'm qualified to do relaxer, but I'm not going to do it.
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Why?
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They'll ask me.
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I'll tell them, okay, I can mix the relaxer that it's
24:25
ready, the how it's done.
24:28
Are you able to eat it?
24:30
Mm-hmm.
24:32
Because I mean like anything that you can put on your scalp,
24:35
you should be able to eat it.
24:36
Mm-hmm.
24:36
Because you're literally in the beauty about eating it, it's better because
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then it's going into through your digestive system and it has got means
24:46
and ways of separating toxins and you know, so you are safer eating it.
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But if you put it on your scalp, it goes directly into your bloodstream.
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So which one do you, would you rather do?
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So every time before you do put anything on your scalp,
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always remember, can I eat this?
25:12
Wow, can I eat this?
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That's gonna be my mantra.
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Now, going forward, when I'm anything on my head.
25:19
Yeah.
25:20
Can I eat this?
25:22
Yeah.
25:22
Okay.
25:23
You know, I'm going to, we are gonna be opening this up to those who have
25:27
joined us so that they can ask you more questions because I got so many
25:30
questions that I'm still thinking about.
25:32
Still musing over the fact that, you know, there's a connection because
25:35
you said between like fibroids.
25:39
Probably more prevalent in people of African descent and starting puberty
25:44
earlier and earlier, and you've given me an understanding on why that's happening.
25:51
Yep.
25:53
Also just to, you know, as to take away with is that hair is a
25:57
window into your internal health.
26:00
And a lot of people don't even realize it.
26:02
We see hair as adornment, 'cause that's how we have always been told, oh, if
26:08
you've got hair you must look this way.
26:10
Look that way.
26:11
And so as a result, 90% of people never go to see a hair doctor because why should I?
26:20
But through your hair you can actually be able to tell
26:25
there's something wrong within.
26:27
So God gave us the hair to help us identify what is wrong with me.
26:32
And it said that most of us, we only get to go when it's already too late.
26:39
Mm-hmm.
26:41
So do people even have on schedule or like, okay, once every six months
26:46
I wanna go and see a trichologist so they can see what my scalp is.
26:51
Or you only come to see a trichologist when all your hair is gone.
26:55
Yeah.
26:55
And even initially when it starts falling you say, oh, let me cut my hair.
27:00
Mm-hmm.
27:01
But maybe your hair is actually telling you something.
27:04
Wow.
27:06
So , an internal window to our health.
27:10
Yeah.
27:12
Okay.
27:13
We are gonna end on that note so that people have more
27:16
questions to ask you about that.
27:18
So, wow.
27:19
How can people find you if they're not here in the audience, how
27:23
can they get in touch with you?
27:24
We do have Feso Hair on Instagram and they can contact
27:29
me directly on my Facebook page.
27:33
Mm-hmm.
27:33
And yeah, or our website which is www.fesoafrica.com.
27:41
Yeah.
27:41
What about LinkedIn?
27:42
I will always say LinkedIn.
27:43
Oh, yes.
27:44
Oh, LinkedIn is my personal name.
27:46
It is Leticia Kuda Mupawose.
27:48
So literally if people just Google my name, it will lead
27:52
them to who I am and where I am.
27:55
Okay.
27:55
We'll drop that in the show notes and in the chat.
27:58
Okay.
27:58
And for those of you who have joined us today and have listened
28:04
to Kuda talk about, you know, ending on this note that our hair is an
28:10
internal window to our health.
28:14
If you'd like to be a guest on Chatting with the Experts, where
28:17
we empower women, we educate women, and we encourage women globally,
28:22
please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
28:27
I'm also on LinkedIn.
28:28
Paula Okonneh is my profile, but you can better still reach out to
28:32
me on my linkedIn business page, which is Chatting with the experts.
28:38
I am also on Instagram.
28:41
My handle is @chat_experts_ podcast and we are also on Facebook.
28:49
We have a business page there Chatting with the Experts.
28:51
We'd love for you to like and follow us there to hear more,
28:55
more interesting, informative and educative substance from my guest.
29:00
And I also have a YouTube channel, Chatting with the Experts
29:04
where you can see all the past episodes with women educating,
29:09
empowering, and encouraging you.
29:12
So with that, I will open up the floor to all those who have joined us.
29:18
And of course, I cannot end without saying Thank you so much, Kuda, for
29:25
being a guest and making me understand, oh, us understand that there's a lot
29:32
more to hair than what meets the eye.
29:36
That's so true.
29:37
Thank you for having me, Queen.
29:39
Thank you.
29:40
Yes, queen podcast.
29:42
Thank you.
29:44
All right.