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What’s Up, Doc? Featuring Dr. Basil Williams | The Eye Believe Podcast · The Eye Believe Podcast

0:03
hey everyone
0:03
welcome back to the Eye Believe Podcast
0:05
I'm Megan and my guest today is Doctor Basil Williams
0:08
this is another episode of our new series
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What's Up Doc?
0:11
welcome Doctor Williams
0:13
hi Megan
0:13
how you doing
0:15
I'm doing wonderfully how are you doing
0:17
I'm doing well thanks so much for having me
0:20
thank you for being here
0:21
we're really excited to talk to you today
0:22
so the first question I'm gonna ask
0:24
is just for you
0:25
to give us a little bit about your backstory
0:28
where did you grow up what was your childhood like
0:31
yeah so I was born in Saint George's Grenada
0:34
uh in the Caribbean
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a lot of my family is uh
0:37
from Jamaica and the Bahamas etcetera
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and then
0:40
we ended up moving to New York when I was young
0:42
so I grew up in the Bronx
0:44
uh I'm the son of a Christian pastor
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and a public school teacher
0:49
uh my father and mother were fantastic
0:53
um and really kind of helped inspire me in many
0:57
many ways and I'm the oldest of three um
1:01
and even though I've lived in many places
1:04
New York is still in my heart as home
1:08
what was it like to move to New York from the islands
1:12
yeah so I suppose it was interesting in some ways
1:15
I was young enough that
1:17
I don't remember a whole lot from the islands
1:19
but there's a huge Caribbean culture in New York
1:22
um so I think there is a
1:24
a large part of the population that has made that move
1:27
um but obviously
1:30
the number one thing that stands out was the cold haha
1:33
um I don't think that I ever fully adjusted to that
1:35
I still have island blood
1:37
I live in Miami now and I've lived here for some time
1:40
but even when it's warm outside
1:41
I'm still wearing a jacket
1:43
um and so
1:44
you can tell that certain parts of me never fully uh
1:47
fit in and got used to New York
1:49
I actually relate cause I grew up in Phoenix
1:51
and I'm kind of the same way
1:52
I like the heat I
1:53
I think it is it's like in your blood
1:56
absolutely
1:58
so when did you know that you wanted to be a doctor
2:03
so that's a really good question
2:04
I think when I was in the second grade
2:07
we had a science project to do
2:09
and I did a project on the eye
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I was mostly tracing work
2:13
but I got a lot of positive feedback
2:15
and I don't know if it was actually
2:17
the intellectual curiosity about the eye
2:19
or the positive feedback about um
2:22
about my artistic skills uh
2:24
which really did not translate into any sort of
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artistic skills moving on later in life
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but um
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at the time they they were pretty good
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and so
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I think that's something that stuck out in my mind
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but it wasn't until much later in life
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that I really got interested in medicine again and
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and that was actually kind of through happenstance
2:42
through um
2:43
the friend uh
2:45
of one of my classmates in medical school um
2:48
or or her father um
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and that kind of helped guide me
2:51
not only on the path to medicine
2:53
but also the path to ophthalmology
2:55
and is there a certain moment
2:57
or a person that you can think of
2:59
that really inspired you to be a doctor
3:02
oh 100%
3:04
uh so the doctor's name is Peter Liggett
3:07
he is a retina specialist and ocular oncologist
3:10
and so I ended up working in his practice
3:13
which was supposed to be for
3:15
you know a few weeks time um
3:17
as a technician
3:19
and I had a couple of incredible experiences there
3:22
one of which was him interacting um
3:25
with a patient who um
3:28
had a large melanoma
3:29
she ended up having to get an enucleation
3:32
but I watched the dynamic
3:33
and the interaction that he had with her
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and it was one
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of the most powerful things that I've ever seen
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um he is just such a down to earth person
3:42
and the way he interacted um
3:44
not only from the scientific perspective
3:46
but just kind of his handling of the social component
3:49
his empathy his care
3:51
and seeing the way the family reacted to that
3:53
was extremely powerful to me
3:55
and that kind of let me know that medicine was a path
3:58
where I would
3:58
potentially have an opportunity to have an impact
4:02
and so that really really stuck with me and
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and actually to the point where
4:07
I have a lot of his mannerisms and phrases
4:10
that he used with patients
4:11
I still use it and about a month ago
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I had the fortunate opportunity to introduce him um
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for a lecture at a meeting
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and it was one of the coolest moments of my life
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not only because he inspired me
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but he also later on
4:26
gave me many opportunities to develop my career
4:29
and connected me with a number of people
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and so I got to speak with his daughters and his wife
4:33
to get more background information and pictures
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and try to embarrass him during the presentation
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and it really was one of the coolest things
4:40
that I've had an opportunity to do in my career
4:43
that's amazing so my next question was gonna be
4:46
how did you first get involved
4:47
in treating ocular melanoma
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but was it that
4:49
because that he was treating ocular melanoma
4:52
right 100%
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so uh
4:55
he kind of split his time between retina and oncology
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and that was something uh
4:59
that really inspired me and so um
5:02
partially because of that
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I knew that that was uh
5:06
those were the fields that I was going to go into
5:07
and so I do retina and ocular oncology as well
5:10
um but also when I went to Chicago for medical school
5:15
he helped connect me with someone else to do research
5:18
his name was Bill Mieler and
5:20
Doctor Mieler has also been a great advisor and mentor
5:23
and he had trained in retina and ocular oncology
5:26
at that point um
5:28
during the summer
5:29
between my first and second year of medical school
5:31
I ended up reaching out to a number of people
5:32
about research opportunities
5:35
um and Doctor Liggett ended up connecting me um
5:38
to Doctor Tim Murray
5:40
who was doing retina and ocular oncology at Bascom
5:42
Palmer so I did research with him um
5:45
and later on
5:45
I ended up working with Tara McCannel doing research
5:48
and she did retina and ocular oncology
5:50
so it kind of seemed like
5:51
no matter what I was interested in doing
5:53
the universe was telling me
5:54
that that's the direction that I should take
5:56
um and so
5:57
kind of because of my research path throughout the
6:00
throughout that process um
6:02
I should also mention
6:02
Amy Schefler was a fellow with Doctor Murray um
6:05
when I went down there
6:06
and she's been kind of a great inspiration
6:08
too also retina and ocular oncology
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so I
6:11
I think it was just something that was supposed to be
6:14
and uh
6:15
now I'm in my career doing that and
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and it was clear that
6:18
that's the direction that I was supposed to move
6:19
from a fulfillment standpoint
6:21
yeah you really can't fight against that at that point
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exactly exactly
6:27
okay so what type of doctor are you
6:29
yeah so I do a vitreoretinal diseases and surgery um
6:34
surgical retina as well as ocular oncology um
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and so basically that means uh
6:40
from medical retina
6:42
with macular degeneration and diabetic retinopathy um
6:45
all the way to retinal detachment surgery um
6:48
and then on ocular oncology side
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I do surface tumors uh
6:52
conjunctival uh
6:53
tumors as well as intraocular uh
6:56
tumors as well and that's both adult and pediatric
6:59
awesome
6:59
and tell us a little bit about the university of Miami
7:03
where you're located what do you guys offer
7:05
yeah uh
7:06
so I must say university of Miami um
7:09
is a fantastic place uh
7:11
the Bascom Palmer Eye Institute
7:12
is our department of ophthalmology
7:15
um I was lucky enough to do research there
7:18
as I had mentioned the summer
7:20
between my first and second year of medical school
7:23
and I
7:23
I really wasn't well versed in the history of ophthalmology
7:27
at that time um
7:29
but when I went down there
7:30
they have this big sign that says
7:31
the No. 1 Eye Institute um
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and then you kind of see the years that the department
7:35
um you know
7:36
has been viewed in that way
7:38
and when I walked in the building
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I kind of thought it was a really cool experience and
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and I really cherished um
7:44
every moment that I was there
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um they had so many phenomenal things
7:49
so from a pathology perspective
7:52
uh they had all of the slides for every biopsy um
7:56
every case that had been done
7:57
since the hospital had opened
7:59
now over 60 years uh before um
8:03
Doctor Murray was doing ocular oncology there
8:05
he was doing retinoblastoma
8:07
he was doing a lot of uh
8:08
UV a melanoma
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um he had his own lab
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and he was doing wonderful research there
8:14
and they had great collaborations uh
8:16
with the university
8:17
with the cancer center for both adult and pediatric
8:19
Sylvester uh
8:20
Comprehensive Cancer Center
8:22
and so really that's the first time
8:24
that I had seen anything like that
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because Doctor Liggett had worked in private practice
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and he was phenomenal
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but I just didn't see kind of a multi institutional
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collaborative environment like that
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and so during my residency
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I had an opportunity to
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kind of get a better understanding
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of what was going on at that time
8:40
Doctor Murray had uh
8:42
moved on to private practice
8:43
and Doctor Bill Harbour
8:44
had taken over the ocular oncology service
8:47
and so I got to um
8:49
watch as the uh
8:51
gene expression profile testing and prame testing uh
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was coming out and becoming more popular and
8:57
and got to kind of learn over his shoulder
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peeking at the things that he was doing
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um and so um
9:03
I was really fortunate to come back
9:04
and join faculty at Bascom Palmer
9:06
about three years ago um
9:08
and really have just been excited and um
9:12
and then overjoyed to be part of the tradition um
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where I started my training process
9:18
doing research and so um
9:20
from an offering standpoint um
9:23
we have one of the largest ophthalmology departments
9:26
in the country and not only is that beneficial
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because there's a bunch of amazing
9:30
really talented and smart people
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but because they cover so many aspects of ophthalmology
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that you have a number of colleagues
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that you can collaborate with on care
9:40
the cancer center is also phenomenal
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and so you're able to work with them on a lot of things
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but the true core that runs through the institute and
9:49
and I know a lot of people say this
9:50
and it's probably true in a lot of places
9:52
but it is such a family environment
9:55
and I mean this throughout the institution
9:57
I know the people on the environmental services staff
10:00
and if I'm working late
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they'll bring a cup of water to my office
10:03
in the afternoon
10:04
all the way to the chair of the department
10:07
and the head of the cancer center
10:09
and so I think
10:11
in addition to kind of the scientific rigor
10:14
and the clinical care that state of the art
10:18
it really is that extra touch
10:20
that makes it special for me
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and why I really love being there
10:24
that's amazing I mean
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that sounds like a great place to work
10:28
or to be a patient
10:30
yeah I'm uh
10:31
I must admit that I don't know 100% what it's like
10:34
from the patient experience side
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um but we did uh
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recently meet with uh some patients
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there was a patient and caregiver meeting
10:41
we had an opportunity to talk to a lot of patients
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and we got some feedback
10:44
we heard a lot of the things that uh
10:46
we're doing well
10:47
we also heard some ways um
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that we can uh improve our process for patients
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and so I think you know
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we are really excited
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about making the patient experience even better
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um and so I think
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you know
11:00
continuing to get that feedback is actually valuable
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because there's no other way to improve without that
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so I hope it's a great experience to be a patient
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I hope it'll be even better
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and no doubt about it for me
11:11
it's an absolutely wonderful place to work
11:13
that's fantastic alright
11:15
so my next question is a little bit of a tough one
11:16
what do you believe makes a great doctor
11:20
ah yes
11:21
so I think it's actually
11:22
a lot of the factors that I mentioned
11:24
about the institute uh
11:27
number one uh
11:28
most important the patient is a person
11:30
not a disease process I think a lot of us are very
11:34
very educationally
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driven and intellectually stimulated
11:39
by the cases that we see and that's obviously important
11:42
um but the person is the most important thing and
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and I say that's the case
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because
11:48
no matter what recommendation you're gonna have
11:50
from a treatment perspective
11:52
no matter um
11:53
you know
11:53
what conversation you're gonna have about follow ups
11:56
and various other things
11:57
it all needs to be tailored to the patient
11:59
what their needs are what their family structure is
12:02
what their dynamic is um
12:03
I think when we think about cancer um
12:06
sometimes it can be a scary word um
12:08
sometimes
12:08
it can be a challenging and emotional situation
12:11
and so you want to diffuse as much of uh
12:15
the emotional challenge
12:17
that comes with the concept as possible
12:19
so that way
12:19
you can actually have a meaningful interaction
12:22
so I think that probably is the number one thing um
12:25
and then after that you really want people who are um
12:29
driven by data driven by research
12:31
making sure that you're giving
12:33
the appropriate information
12:35
um and I think as a field
12:37
we've come so far now
12:38
that we actually have more data to be able to share
12:42
versus 20 30
12:43
40 years ago
12:45
it was based predominantly on physician experience
12:48
so uh
12:49
I think being scientifically in tune is also important
12:52
and then the clinical skills
12:53
I think it's the hardest for the patients to evaluate
12:56
uh but making sure that um
12:58
people have the skill set to uh
13:00
to do the procedures as well um
13:02
and to be able to explain them well uh
13:05
so that everybody is on the same page
13:07
um and then that is all about being a great physician
13:11
but I do think there's one more subtle component
13:14
that makes a huge difference
13:16
one of the reasons why I love again
13:17
being at university of Miami
13:19
is because it's not about me
13:22
it's about the entire team
13:24
you can only be as strong as the team
13:26
that's providing care so for uh
13:29
cases that involve melanoma
13:31
my ability to do really good uh
13:34
radiation is gonna be based on the radiation oncologist
13:36
they have to be top of the line
13:38
they have to be amazing at their job
13:39
uh we have to be thinking about potential screening
13:42
and our medical oncologist need to be amazing
13:44
and so being able to work in a place where um
13:47
everyone on the team is trying to innovate uh
13:49
constantly and it's not just the ocular oncologist
13:52
that are thinking about the data
13:53
and thinking about the next steps
13:55
in the future of care it really is the entire team
13:58
so I think all four of those components are required
14:01
in order to have an amazing physician
14:05
that does sound amazing
14:07
so then my next question is a little similar
14:09
but if somebody comes to you
14:11
and they're going to be your patient
14:13
what can they expect from you
14:15
yeah so uh
14:16
first I wanna get to know them a little
14:19
bit uh
14:20
unfortunately for them I make some jokes uh
14:23
I'm not a very funny person
14:24
but I do try to uh
14:26
lighten the experience and so uh
14:28
hopefully
14:28
we have an opportunity to actually connect as people uh
14:31
they will hear the data they will hear uh
14:34
the approaches uh
14:35
and the options
14:36
and then we will hopefully together come uh
14:38
to make a decision uh
14:41
we have a wonderful team
14:42
and so while I am always available uh
14:45
to talk and reach out
14:46
we have an incredible nursing staff
14:48
clinical coordinator staff um
14:51
and and uh
14:52
administrative staff that really do a wonderful job
14:55
so uh
14:55
I want to make sure that our patients feel supported
14:58
not just by me but by the entire team um
15:02
and so I think that's what they're going to be getting
15:04
hopefully compassionate um
15:06
well delivered and educated care uh
15:09
and that involves uh
15:11
navigating the tumor and
15:13
and everything associated with that
15:14
but hopefully
15:15
it's more than just the scientific component
15:18
and what is your overall approach
15:20
to treating ocular melanoma
15:23
yeah so
15:24
I think that depends a little bit on the person
15:27
and the situation
15:27
I think the number one thing that we always think about
15:30
is life uh
15:31
so our goal is to uh
15:33
focus on life first the second uh
15:35
we love to salvage the eye
15:37
keep the eye and have the eye in as good uh
15:40
condition as possible and we really
15:42
really care about the vision
15:43
obviously
15:44
different people come in with tumors of different sizes
15:47
in different locations their opportunity to have really
15:50
really good vision afterwards varies a lot by that
15:55
and so um
15:56
some of our understanding
15:57
and how we approach things
15:58
is going to be based on
15:59
what the patient's needs are in life
16:01
but also trying to make sure um
16:04
that life is the number one priority
16:07
and we all kind of share that goal and share that focus
16:12
and when there are multiple treatment options
16:14
how do you guide patients through that decision
16:16
and what role do you believe patients should play
16:19
in the decision making process
16:21
yeah well
16:21
I think patients should play a huge role
16:23
I mean it's their eye
16:24
I always tell them they're the boss
16:25
it's my job to give them the information
16:27
and so I try and share the options that are available
16:31
uh sometimes
16:32
that means clinical trials
16:33
that we don't actually have access to
16:34
but we do know other people
16:36
in other places that have access
16:38
and so I try to lay the options
16:40
that are reasonable on the table for them and
16:43
and then help guide their decision
16:45
I always ask them what questions they have
16:48
you know and
16:49
and at that point
16:50
try to see if there's anything that I can do
16:52
to help in the decision making process
16:54
and some people say you're my doctor
16:56
I trust you tell me what you would do for your mom
16:59
and then do that for me and then some people say
17:02
some people come in with a stack of articles
17:04
and they're like well
17:05
I read this this
17:05
and this and these are the things that I want and
17:07
and as long as that makes sense for their eye
17:10
and as long as it's not a dangerous or
17:12
or challenging thing to do
17:13
and I think that's completely appropriate so um
17:16
I think it should be a team decision um
17:19
and that's the goal
17:21
awesome and how do you work with other specialists
17:24
to provide the best care and what should patients know
17:27
about being part of a multidisciplinary team
17:31
yes absolutely
17:32
so as an ocular oncologist
17:34
I think it's
17:34
obviously important for us to understand and know
17:38
not only about the conditions that we're treating
17:41
uveal melanoma etcetera
17:42
but also about the rest of the eye
17:44
we're thinking about the retina
17:45
we're thinking about the optic nerve
17:46
we're thinking about the blood vessels etcetera
17:48
but this really is something that we have to view
17:51
the patient uh
17:53
as a whole as an entire person
17:55
so that means
17:56
our medical oncologists
17:57
are understanding and interpreting our biopsy results
18:00
we're having that conversation with the patient
18:02
we're referring to medical oncology
18:04
they're talking about uh
18:06
systemic imaging evaluation
18:08
potential clinical trials for
18:10
uh adjuvant therapy
18:11
and that's something that should happen up front
18:13
when we are thinking about doing uh
18:16
radiation our radiation oncologists
18:18
are meeting our patients beforehand
18:19
they're talking about the pros
18:21
and cons of radiation
18:22
they're talking about their experience
18:24
they're saying hello when the patient comes in um
18:26
so there's a number of factors that go along with that
18:29
uh because I do surgical retina
18:31
if there's any sort of surgical things
18:32
involving the retina afterwards then
18:34
then I will participate in that
18:36
but we also have a number of other people um
18:38
in ophthalmology that help
18:40
one of the things that I really love again
18:42
about being in in a multidisciplinary um
18:46
field and an institution that provides that care
18:49
we're also thinking about the mental health uh
18:51
of patients afterwards
18:52
and what kind of challenges they're trying to navigate
18:54
we're thinking about the financial component that uh
18:57
plays into this and our social workers um
19:00
are looking at opportunities to connect people
19:02
with foundations we're thinking about the networking uh
19:05
you know this can be somewhat of an isolating disease
19:08
because this is something that's so rare
19:09
many people don't know one or two other people
19:13
that have uh
19:14
experienced ocular melanoma
19:16
and so
19:16
to be able to connect them to organizations like yours
19:19
and others that are able to um
19:21
help them kind of share that burden
19:23
and get to know other people
19:24
and get a better experience
19:25
if that's something that they need
19:27
um there's nutrition exercise
19:29
acupuncture and various other things
19:31
and so uh
19:32
we really do try to work with our entire team uh
19:36
to take care of a person as a whole
19:39
I love everything you just said
19:41
so now
19:42
what advancements are most exciting to you right now
19:46
oh
19:46
there's so many things that are going on in the field
19:48
I I
19:49
this is
19:49
literally the best time to be in ocular oncology
19:52
and and I think
19:53
you know I'm benefiting
19:54
from the work of a lot of previous ocular oncologists
19:57
uh who have done amazing science
19:59
and brought the field to where it is
20:00
um
20:02
right now molecular prognostication
20:04
is in as good a place as it could be
20:07
so basically by getting a sample of the tumor
20:10
we are able to understand the risk of metastasis
20:13
in the future
20:14
this also gives us certain targets to try and aim for
20:17
to treat metastasis if they do develop
20:20
um and so
20:21
that's something that's actually a meaningful change
20:24
for a long time I would talk to people uh
20:26
and they would say well
20:27
why should I biopsy
20:28
if there's nothing that we can do about it
20:30
if there's no information that we're giving
20:31
if there's no clinical trials that are available
20:34
uh so to be able to practice during that time is really
20:36
really exciting but not only that
20:39
a number of people have been looking at liquid biopsy
20:41
basically meaning trying to identify
20:44
non invasive ways to get the information
20:47
that our current biopsies give us
20:49
we're also using artificial intelligence
20:51
to be able to look at images um
20:53
and have large language models decipher
20:56
or hopefully in the future decipher uh uh
21:00
some of our biggest challenges
21:01
so whether a tumor is low risk or high risk
21:03
is obviously valuable
21:05
when we're on the border between a nevus or a melanoma
21:08
making sure we understand
21:09
when a tumor is benign or malignant um
21:12
that's something that's also really
21:13
really helpful and not only does it make a difference
21:16
from a clinical perspective
21:17
but it also helps the patients potentially uh
21:20
by reducing the invasiveness of our procedures
21:23
we're in a place where we have a lot of new treatments
21:25
that are being thought about um
21:27
and worked on
21:27
potentially to avoid some of the effects of radiation
21:31
we have that with clinical trials for small tumors
21:33
we have that with clinical trials
21:35
for really large tumors um
21:36
so we're trying to cover the entire spectrum
21:38
so um
21:39
I think the next five to 10 years in
21:41
in this field it's going to dramatically change
21:44
in such a positive way um
21:46
and I'll give a a shout out again to
21:49
to Doctor Harbour um
21:51
who uh
21:52
who kind of ran the ocular oncology service
21:54
while he was here and while I was in training
21:56
he created the Collaborative Ocular Oncology Group um
21:59
which now um
22:02
is about 30 or 30
22:03
more than 30 centers across the US and Canada
22:06
not only ocular oncologist
22:08
but medical oncologist there as well
22:10
so we can actually talk about where the science is
22:12
and where we should move forward as a field
22:14
what kind of clinical trials
22:15
should we be thinking about how do we advance things
22:18
so I think it uh is a phenomenal opportunity uh
22:22
for us as physicians to try and advance the field
22:25
but also if you're a patient uh
22:27
you're getting more information
22:28
and there's more exciting things to come um
22:30
than have been there uh in the years past
22:34
amazing it's so exciting
22:37
it really is an exciting time
22:39
there's no and and any uh
22:42
student resident
22:42
or fellow
22:43
who rotates with me in clinic or the operating room
22:46
they can see how excited I am about it
22:48
and I think um
22:49
we're seeing across the country
22:50
there's a number of ocular
22:51
oncologists that are coming into the field now
22:54
because we have more to offer now
22:56
amazing alright
22:58
we're gonna shift a little into some personal questions
23:00
now my first one is
23:01
what keeps you going on the hard days
23:04
yeah so
23:06
I go back to Doctor Liggett
23:07
and his interaction with that first patient
23:09
so she was 18 which is quite young
23:11
to be diagnosed with a uveal melanoma
23:14
and um
23:17
she was obviously
23:17
concerned about a whole bunch of things at that time um
23:21
but she was also thinking
23:21
well if I get my eye removed
23:23
what is what am I going to look like
23:24
what is that going to mean
23:25
as I interact with people in college
23:27
and how are they going to view me etcetera
23:29
and that's something that really has kind of
23:31
always stuck with me so there are challenging times
23:35
there are times uh
23:36
when you're dealing with the difficulties of cancer and
23:38
and despite your best efforts sometimes um
23:41
the cancer will do various things or
23:45
or cause various issues
23:46
and the relationships that you build with people
23:48
that will have an effect on you
23:50
it should have an effect on you
23:51
because you really care um
23:54
but what drives me is number one
23:56
the very next person that I'm going to see
23:59
they're relying on me and our interaction uh
24:03
to help and to provide care for them as well
24:06
and for every difficult situation
24:09
there are so many positive situations um
24:11
that help drive you forward
24:13
uh I also am a huge nerd and a loser
24:16
when it comes to ocular oncology
24:17
I was very fortunate during my fellowships
24:20
I did fellowship in Philadelphia with Doctor Shields
24:24
and I got to see another couple in ocular oncology
24:27
and it just so happens
24:29
that I met my wife during fellowship in Philadelphia
24:32
and she also does ocular oncology
24:34
and so our dinner conversations
24:36
are very much based around oculomology things uh
24:40
which
24:40
maybe is not the most entertaining for a lot of people
24:43
um but for us
24:44
it really really helps to drive us
24:46
and so um
24:47
I think actually uh
24:49
a lot of the the foundation of our relationship um
24:53
started in that world and
24:54
and helps drive both of us forward
24:56
because we have a shoulder
24:58
to lean on when things are difficult
25:00
but somebody else to inspire us as well
25:03
and how has this work changed you as a person
25:07
yeah I would say it's changed me a lot
25:11
but it's also something that I've been thinking about
25:14
and growing with throughout my entire adult life
25:17
um from having this be the first major job that I did
25:22
after graduating college
25:24
working as a technician in a practice
25:26
and thinking about ocular oncology in this way
25:28
so more than changed me
25:31
I think it's helped shape who I am as a person
25:33
I think it's helped shape
25:35
the way I try to interact with people
25:37
the conversations that I have
25:38
um I hope that I am a person
25:41
that
25:41
tries to limit the judgments that I make on people
25:45
because you never know what's going on and
25:47
and when you interact with people who are affected by
25:52
uh uveal melanoma
25:54
and you get to see what their lives are like
25:55
outside of being a patient
25:58
um you get to understand that
25:59
this could be any person that you interact with
26:02
in your daily life and
26:04
many of them have the appearance
26:07
where you would never know
26:08
there's anything going on with them
26:10
but they are navigating treatment side effects
26:14
family dynamics and other interactions
26:17
and obviously
26:17
there are many more things in life that happen
26:19
besides dealing with cancer
26:21
and you kind of go through that journey
26:22
with all of the people that you help
26:24
care for and so
26:26
I try to have that be a part of my daily life
26:29
when I'm interacting with people outside of work
26:31
as well
26:32
and I think I get reminded of my failures
26:35
on a regular basis
26:36
and how I need to be a better person
26:38
and
26:38
I think that's something that's incredibly grounding
26:40
so hopefully
26:42
it continues to shape me to be a better person
26:44
at work and outside of work
26:46
and I'm grateful that I have an opportunity
26:49
to participate in this field
26:52
and what have your patients taught you over the years
26:55
oh man
26:57
um there
26:58
there are so many lessons that I've Learned
27:00
one of the um
27:02
coolest interactions I've had
27:04
uh was with a kiddo um
27:06
who had a a different condition
27:09
it wasn't melanoma related um
27:11
but he had he had retinoblastoma
27:13
he ended up losing one eye and um
27:15
he was struggling with recurrences
27:17
in his only remaining eye
27:19
this kid had the most optimism energy
27:25
his smile was amazing he was the most fun to be around
27:29
and he really has been
27:30
one of the most inspiring people to me
27:32
over time eventually
27:33
he was cured he's doing really well
27:36
and I still kind of keep tabs on him
27:39
but eventually after his cure
27:41
he did a make a wish
27:43
and his big thing was he wanted to go to New York
27:46
and as a New Yorker I'm really excited
27:48
and I'm trying to tell him all the things that I think
27:50
are gonna be amazing
27:51
and all the ways that he's gonna enjoy himself
27:53
um and he comes back from
27:55
from New York and I was like
27:56
so how was it and he was like
27:58
you know it was a nice city
28:01
but there's a lot of people there
28:02
and the city can sometimes be very dirty
28:05
and I'm like
28:05
thinking of all the amazing things
28:07
and it was just such like a
28:09
a practical answer um
28:12
that that
28:12
it kind of helped me again remain grounded
28:15
um I laughed for
28:17
oh man
28:17
I couldn't stop laughing he was like
28:18
I don't wanna be offensive to your city or anything and
28:22
and it it just was one of those things where um
28:25
you get to see like
28:26
humanity at its core you get to see a person just
28:28
kind of experiencing everyday life
28:30
and I'm thinking all this grand thing
28:31
well what New York is going to mean after
28:33
you know battling and beating your cancer
28:35
and he's like yeah
28:36
you know and parts of it are pretty dirty
28:38
and it's pretty crowded I'm like okay yes
28:39
that's true um
28:41
so I
28:41
I try to take something away from all of my patients
28:44
and I I try to be a constant learner
28:46
um so I think I'm learning all the time
28:50
absolutely and what does hope mean to you in your work
28:57
uh hope
28:57
I think is the driving force behind what I do
29:00
it's my hope in our science
29:03
in our research in our future
29:05
it's my hope um
29:07
in how we approach our interaction
29:10
it's my hope for our patients
29:12
um it's my hope and my ability to do my job well um
29:16
and to try to transmit that hopeful environment
29:22
and infuse that to the people that we take care of
29:26
and their family members and
29:29
try to make sure that our whole team
29:31
is exuding that kind of hope
29:33
as well so I think it is a focus on the future
29:37
a focus on the positives
29:40
focus on the reality
29:41
and making sure that we're using research
29:44
and the positives to help shape our reality but
29:48
but yeah
29:49
I think that's kind of how I view hope
29:53
what do you love doing outside of work
29:57
so um
30:00
I don't know if I love this
30:01
but this is something that I'm doing now
30:02
I'm working on languages um
30:05
when I moved to Miami I Learned to speak Spanish
30:08
and I speak Spanish reasonably well
30:10
um my wife is from Italy
30:13
and so her whole family speaks Italian
30:15
as their primary language
30:17
and so I am working on speaking Italian
30:19
although that is very very uh
30:21
slowly coming along um
30:23
I do like challenging myself
30:25
and so
30:25
being able to speak a language and learn the culture
30:28
so that way when you visit the family
30:30
you understand it better
30:31
and you have a more culturally rich experience
30:33
is definitely something that I do love
30:36
but perhaps how slow I am at it
30:38
and how it's a constant example of
30:40
of ways that I'm not succeeding
30:42
um I perhaps don't love um
30:45
I am very much a retired basketball player
30:47
I still love watching and playing basketball
30:50
especially right now that the Knicks are good again
30:53
it's been over 20 years since uh
30:55
the Knicks have had a really
30:56
really exciting team and so um I
30:59
I am definitely a huge uh
31:01
fan of that and then from the simple things I
31:04
I enjoy spending time with my wife
31:06
doing almost anything that includes like
31:08
very nerdy board games uh
31:11
to traveling to see either one of our families
31:14
to
31:14
just enjoying the many things that Miami has to offer
31:17
so yeah I
31:18
I enjoy a number of things outside of work thankfully
31:22
awesome how do you unwind after a long day
31:27
yeah so
31:28
I think one of the things that I need to do is work out
31:31
to some degree
31:32
whether that's walking running
31:34
lifting
31:36
anything along those lines and
31:38
and I think some of that um I
31:42
I was an athlete growing up
31:43
and so that was kind of a huge part of me to begin with
31:47
but I think that's even been more helpful um
31:50
as I've gotten into my career um
31:52
to kind of make sure that I'm keeping myself fit
31:55
and healthy and moving
31:57
um I uh
31:59
did not do a great job of taking care of myself
32:02
early in my career especially uh
32:04
during the pandemic and so um
32:06
as I give uh
32:08
advice to my patients
32:10
and the people that we take care of
32:11
and I'm like wow
32:11
you should be eating well and you should be exercising
32:14
and feeling like a hypocrite inside um
32:17
I've had the opportunity to kind of tackle that
32:19
and I think that's something that really
32:21
really helps me um
32:22
to to kind of
32:24
mentally and emotionally
32:25
navigate the challenges of the day
32:29
so this might be a little redundant with that
32:31
but my next question was
32:32
what's something that helps you reset
32:34
when things feel overwhelming
32:36
yeah so the other thing that I do um
32:39
so first very blessed to be in Miami um
32:41
I can walk outside and be near the water at all times
32:44
just sitting there and watching the water
32:46
is one of the most powerful things um
32:49
in the world I have no idea why water uh
32:51
works on your emotions the way it does for me but
32:54
but it is something special
32:55
the other thing that I love to do
32:57
as I've mentioned many times
32:58
I'm a huge nerd I love to read
33:00
and so um
33:01
whether that
33:02
I kind of alternate between fiction and non fiction
33:04
and
33:04
that will transport me to a completely different place
33:07
and it allows me to have my brain turned off
33:11
in certain ways so I
33:12
I'm not stuck thinking about kind of
33:14
the stress of everyday life
33:16
and I get to enjoy something or learn something
33:19
and that's extremely helpful for me
33:23
what brings you the most joy outside of medicine
33:27
uh spending time with family and friends
33:30
the people who have been supportive um
33:34
from the beginning I
33:34
I think it helps remind me not to take myself seriously
33:39
I have a number of people
33:40
who do a great job at making fun of me uh
33:43
which I love and
33:43
and is extremely helpful um
33:46
so that way I can leave work
33:48
and not feel like I'm important in any way
33:51
and I can just kind of um
33:53
hang out
33:54
and experience the everyday interactions of love
33:57
and fun and friendship and family uh um
34:00
and so I think that's critical
34:03
mm hmm who has had the biggest impact on your life
34:08
oh I think that's an impossible question to answer
34:11
uh I think there are so many people that have shaped me
34:14
in a number of ways
34:15
I think I'd probably have to say my father
34:19
um and I think that's largely because
34:21
people who see or interact with the two of us
34:25
will immediately identify a lot of similarities
34:29
that we have
34:31
I think he is the person that kind of
34:34
instilled work ethic in me
34:36
he is the person that instilled my moral compass
34:40
as a pastor of a church it was him who
34:45
kind of
34:45
helped set the guidelines for how I approach ethics
34:50
um it was also him that
34:52
when I was young
34:53
and my friends were doing various things
34:54
and I'd be like oh
34:55
I wanna do this or that and they were like
34:57
well they don't live in this house
34:58
and they don't have to follow these rules
35:00
but you do um
35:02
and that really helped guide me
35:05
number one not to compare myself with other people
35:08
and number two
35:09
to make sure that I hold myself accountable
35:12
for my decisions and what I'm doing
35:13
regardless of what anyone else is doing
35:16
and
35:16
I think that really laid the foundation for who I am
35:23
and what does a perfect day look like for you
35:28
so I think I'm actually really
35:30
really lucky
35:31
from the perspective that I love doing so many things
35:34
so a perfect day um
35:36
unfortunately again for my wife
35:38
I wake up super early and that is during work week
35:41
that's on a Saturday or Sunday
35:42
there's like no stopping it
35:44
so I'm like um
35:46
a dog on a Saturday morning
35:47
that's like nudging like
35:48
I wanna go play um
35:50
so that can be getting up in the morning
35:53
and working out before work um
35:56
and then going into work
35:58
having a meaningful day of interactions
36:01
um hopefully
36:02
having some opportunities where you have a resident
36:04
a medical student a fellow that's with you
36:06
and you get to um
36:07
teach and learn from them as well
36:09
I I don't have children um
36:12
myself
36:12
and while the trainees are not my children in any ways
36:15
there are some dynamics that are similar
36:17
watching them improve from a surgical perspective
36:20
or clinically really
36:21
you get that kind of reward
36:22
that you've been able to contribute something to
36:25
to their education and experience
36:26
I think that's powerful um
36:29
I I must admit that
36:30
I don't have too many days where I finish work
36:32
and I don't have a zoom meeting
36:34
or don't have a paper to write
36:35
or don't have some other responsibility
36:37
but I think like
36:38
just simply being able to uh
36:40
sit out on the balcony outside of our apartment
36:42
and be able to watch the water
36:44
or just kind of
36:45
enjoy how beautiful it is here in the wintertime um
36:49
also contributes to a perfect day
36:51
but I love that I never have a day that's the same um
36:54
because we do so many different things and our
36:57
the structure of our work day is so different um
36:59
so I have lots of good days
37:02
that are varied with their activities
37:05
love that
37:06
okay next we're gonna go into our lightning round
37:09
so I'm just gonna pepper you with some questions
37:10
so first one
37:11
what is your go to Starbucks or any other place
37:14
coffee order
37:16
so I don't drink any caffeine
37:18
uh so I don't drink coffee
37:21
tea anything
37:22
my go to order is quite boring
37:24
it is just water
37:26
water got you
37:27
alright morning person or night owl
37:29
I think we know uh
37:30
actually both um
37:32
I have so much energy in the morning
37:34
but I also like being up late
37:36
okay and what is your favorite way to spend a day off
37:43
probably playing basketball
37:45
although I must admit that at my age
37:48
I am not convinced that's something
37:50
I'm going to be able to do for much longer
37:54
I understand what is your favorite vacation spot
37:59
oh let me try not to get in trouble
38:01
uh so I will say Italy
38:04
because I get to spend the time with the in laws also
38:06
Italy is an amazing and beautiful country
38:08
and there's so many different things there
38:10
um and we go often to visit the family
38:12
but to visit my in laws
38:14
and good food right
38:16
oh the food is phenomenal
38:17
it's ridiculous it's amazing
38:19
awesome OK
38:20
what's currently on your playlist
38:21
music wise
38:23
um okay
38:24
I actually listen to a lot of podcasts um
38:29
more so than music when I'm listening to music
38:32
I'm more in like a Stevie Wonder um
38:38
or kind of like old school jazz um
38:41
kind of vibes that
38:42
that tends to be my baseline um
38:45
but I'm listening to a lot of podcasts these days and
38:49
and and like I said
38:50
it's a lot around the NBA playoffs right now
38:53
with the Knicks
38:54
but more varied between nerdy and fun outside of that
38:58
nice alright
38:59
what's your favorite movie or TV show
39:03
favorite movie would either be The Shawshank Redemption
39:12
or
39:15
maybe The Blues Brothers
39:18
I love both of them I don't watch much TV
39:21
and you see I haven't watched very many recent movies
39:24
since my favorites are old
39:26
but I think I would go with those two
39:28
I get it
39:29
what's a small thing that makes your day better
39:33
oh the
39:34
the coolest thing of the day is we're at work
39:38
and the team will come around with these little coladas
39:41
which are like these little Cuban coffees um
39:44
and even though I don't drink coffee
39:46
it's the experience one person will buy it
39:48
and they'll pour out a bunch of the little shots
39:50
for everybody on the team
39:51
and you kind of huddle there together
39:53
and talk for a few minutes
39:54
and then you go back in the room
39:56
and it's a a moment of reset during the day
39:59
where everybody that's been working really hard
40:00
kind of comes together
40:01
and it's one of the coolest things and
40:03
and that's what I mean about kind of
40:04
that family environment
40:06
because it's always a different person
40:08
who ends up buying it and kind of happens casually
40:10
but it's a shared responsibility
40:12
to bring it back to the team
40:13
so I I love those moments
40:15
that sounds awesome
40:17
alright
40:17
do you have a favorite quote or mantra that you live by
40:23
um
40:26
comparison is the thief of joy
40:28
I think that's something that I really try to live by
40:31
I try not to watch anyone else's lane
40:33
I try to celebrate other people as much as possible
40:35
and I try to focus on what I need to do for my life
40:39
hmm wise words
40:41
what is the best advice you've ever received or given
40:48
I know for sure
40:49
the best advice is not something that is given
40:54
so I think um I
40:56
I've received a lot of phenomenal advice and
40:59
and some of it is probably I
41:00
I think probably the the uh
41:03
best guidance um
41:05
is from Doctor Liggett he would always say
41:08
better lucky than good but the harder you work
41:11
the luckier you get and so
41:14
I think the first part is just kind of
41:15
a little lighter in a way to deflect compliments
41:18
which I appreciate
41:19
but the second part is something that really stands out
41:21
so um
41:22
I think when you show up and you work hard
41:25
you really put your time and energy into it
41:27
I think that goes a long way absolutely
41:30
and what advice would you give your younger self
41:35
oh believe that you're good enough
41:37
I think you know
41:38
for for so long
41:39
working in an institution where I work where
41:42
you know it's highly ranked
41:43
and
41:43
there's a bunch of other really talented people there
41:45
and you know I
41:47
I've trained under some phenomenal people
41:49
with Doctor Harbour and Doctor Shields and
41:52
and others who have done so much for the field
41:54
um there were times where I felt like well
41:56
I've got to find a way to prove that I should be here
41:59
or to believe that I'm good enough
42:02
and I kind of realize doing my best
42:04
taking care of patients well
42:06
doing my job and working hard
42:07
that is going to be good enough
42:09
um and I think over time
42:12
working with people who
42:14
when I transition from being the trainee
42:16
to being somebody who still looks up to people
42:19
and gets advice all the time
42:20
but also have people coming to me for advice
42:23
and mentorship and guidance um
42:25
it's been really helpful to make that transition
42:27
and see how people view me um
42:29
and kind of help me think
42:31
I just need to do what I'm doing and not think about um
42:35
what I could or should or how I can prove myself
42:37
etcetera so no
42:40
very true do you have a hidden talent
42:46
or just a talent that would surprise us
42:49
I don't know if I have talents that aren't hidden
42:53
do I have a hidden talent
42:55
no or any talent
42:57
um
43:00
well I will tell you
43:01
there is one thing that I have done
43:03
that I think people probably don't think about
43:06
when I was growing up my sister um
43:09
was very very fast
43:10
probably faster than almost anyone around um
43:13
but she wasn't necessarily excited about running track
43:16
and in order to get her to run track
43:19
I did ballet with her
43:21
um for a little while when we were young
43:23
I have no dancing ability
43:25
especially not ballet currently um
43:28
but that is a rare known uh
43:31
fact about me
43:33
very nice um
43:36
if you could instantly master a new skill
43:39
what would it be
43:41
speaking Italian
43:44
honestly languages in general
43:45
we think if I just like
43:47
start learning a language
43:48
start trying and then immediately learn
43:50
I think that's the coolest thing in the world
43:51
that's like your passport for the world
43:53
to be able to travel anywhere and speak not only
43:56
and understand and communicate with people
43:58
but also as if you're from there
43:59
oh man
44:00
that that would be phenomenal
44:02
I think I would pick that too
44:03
that would be amazing
44:04
so the next question is coffee or tea
44:05
and we already know the answer to this one is no water
44:08
do you have another beverage besides water
44:10
that you enjoy
44:14
honestly I like occasionally drink wine
44:17
that's really about it um
44:19
a very very uh
44:21
boring um
44:22
beverage diet
44:24
very healthy beverage diet though
44:27
alright beach or mountains
44:31
beach I
44:32
I live in Miami so I have to say that
44:35
early mornings or late nights
44:37
yeah mornings overnights
44:39
but both okay
44:41
and sweet or salty
44:43
ooh definitely salty
44:45
I don't have a sweet tooth
44:47
okay and what's your favorite salty snack or treat
44:55
uh my favorite
44:56
that I'm not allowed to have are chicharrones
44:58
it's like the little um
44:59
pork rinds that are very common in Cuban culture
45:02
um and so they're like everywhere
45:04
but I but I try not to open a bag
45:06
because it becomes very dangerous at that point
45:10
I I understand
45:11
so that was our last question
45:13
you did amazing
45:14
thank you so much for coming and spending time with us
45:17
and just talking
45:18
and sharing your heart and your passion with us
45:20
we truly truly appreciate this
45:22
oh Megan
45:22
I really appreciate it um
45:24
I hope this is uh helpful
45:25
I'm not particularly good at talking about myself
45:27
but uh
45:28
I'm happy to open up so thanks for having me
45:31
yeah we do so appreciate
45:32
it's always hard to talk about yourself
45:33
I think everybody has a struggle with that
45:36
so um
45:37
but this is so helpful for patients
45:38
if you are watching please leave us a comment
45:40
please like and subscribe
45:42
if you would like to see the next What's Up, Doc? video
45:45
they're going to be coming out
45:46
sporadically throughout the year
45:47
we're going to try to get every doctor
45:49
as many as we can so keep watching
45:51
subscribe and then go to our website
45:53
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45:55
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45:56
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45:57
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45:59
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46:01
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46:03
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46:04
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46:06
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46:08
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46:10
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46:13
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46:14
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46:17
you can choose which room you feel like that night
46:19
and then we have other things going on
46:21
we have events Eye Believe is coming up this fall
46:23
it's gonna be in Dallas
46:24
I'm gonna talk to Doctor Williams
46:26
maybe we can get a Miami Eye Believe on the books
46:28
cause that sounds amazing
46:29
cause I'm with you I'm a beach person
46:31
I wanna go um
46:32
get all those ions from the water and yes
46:35
that I was with you on all of that
46:37
so maybe a Miami Eye Believe could be in our future
46:39
if that sounds good to you
46:40
leave a comment let us know
46:42
or any other doctors you want to see featured
46:45
let us know who you want
46:46
and we'll try to get them on here
46:48
so we're gonna leave it there
46:49
but until next time
46:50
I hope everyone has a wonderful week
46:52
and we will see you all next week